Dubs vs. Subs

[kippykinkel]

has anyone ever come across an anime that was better dubbed?

[Lefty]

Ruroni Kenshin i find to be more enjoyable dub'ed. I can't get passed the super female voice of Kenshin. Thats about it.

[Ryllharu]

Generally, I prefer subs, but there are some good dubs.

Cowboy Bebop was the only one I thought surpassed the original cast. I love that dub.

Many others equaled the originals though. Neon Genesis Evangelion has a great cast and was well done because the voice director, Amanda Winn, who also voiced Rei, did a superb job on it. Also Allison Keith and Tiffany Grant are great as Misato and Asuka.

FLCL was another good one, since the japanese voice director was brought over to do the casting and directing, so the dub is a perfect analog of the Japanese track.

I've always been fond of the cast in the Slayers series and movies too. You'll recognize them all from the Pokemon dub, but they do an excellent job.

Other good ones are Macross Plus, any of Makoto Shinkai's works, and Perfect Blue.

Dubs have fallen on harder times recently, since a lot of the good VA's left and they keep recycling the same 15 or so. Monical Rial, horrible as always, Wendee Lee, overcast in far too many roles.

[JaySee]

I agree with Ryllharu.
Adding to the list, Samurai Champloo. Of course it's from the same people as Cowboy Bebop.

[Deadfire]

There are many things that can be said about subtitles or dubbing. Some anime fans will tell you dubbed is the way to go, while others will pull for the authantic feel of subs. In the end all it really is is personal preferance.

With dubbing you don't have to constantly read words on the bottom of your screen. This can be a big thing if you have difficulty watching the show while reading the dialogue. The whole show will be in your language. Also, dubbing makes certain things in anime easier to understand. In subtitling some companies or fansubs are really exact, which makes the translated sentences seem choppy. Dubbing is more consise, it's clear, with no extra words added. Voice actors is also another big deal. Many people protest dubbs because of 'bad voice acting'--in reality, voice acting has much improved in English released animes, though you'll still get some bad ones that make you want to cringe. Most of the time the words even come out in sinc with the lips moving. The downsides are you may miss important plot points when they cut certain dialogue to make the show easier to understand, or to make the lip movement in sinc. You still will get some really horrible dubbing, it's out there. Also, many shows that are dubbed are also edited, so it really messes with them. This may not be as true as it once was, but it still is at least in part. (especialy for those shown on tv). In Naruto they have done a much better job then some, It's not prefect but very good in light of some of the ones I've seen. Another important thing that some people miss is that some things don't really translate These things don't exist in english and it works the other way too. This does make those that watched the sub either confused or mis-understand.

Dubbing is more difficult because good dubbing not only gives the viewer an accurate translation of the original, but also matches up the performed translation with the lip movements of the onscreen characters. To further complicate matters, the character's gender, ethnicity, social status and age needs to be matched in their voice portrayal. Some things like gender and age are easily matched. However, social status and ethnicity are completely different animals altogether. In some cases, the culture that the show is translated into just doesn't have the kind of social class that is portrayed, for instance, nobles versus warriors versus commoners in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (I'll use a non-anime, but it still proves this point as who hasn't seen this movie). The biggest constraint that dubbing runs up against is lip synchronization between the translation and the on-screen characters.

It's up to you

[FrogKing]

I agree with DF that in the end it is the viewers opinion as to which is better. However, that said I think that if you are a true fan of anime the decesion is a no-brainer...SUBS all the way. I think that there is a huge difference in the quality of the viewing experience when you hear emotion played out by japanese voice actors hired to bring their respective characters to life. Dubs try but fall short by a long way in this sense. Although they try, dub VAs just don't match up in anyway. I do agree that the quality of the subs can make or break a show (re: if all of One Piece was subbed by HK, it wouldn't be as popular as it is). If you can read, then go subbed.

[Yukimura]

Dual Audio all the way. I personally prefer the option to watch a show in English so I can understand what is going on. Last year I hit the point where anime i'd started watching from Japan were being released in the US, and I tend to replace my subs with Dual Audio's as long as the dubbing isn't too annoying and the meaning sn't to hard to follow without lots of little notes appearing at the top of the screen explaining this or that custom. Since most of the US releases i've encounters don't seem to care about explaining these things I usually stay away from titles where Japanese culture or history plays a significant role in the story.

However even with the dubbed audio playing I usually keep the English subtitles on, as the translations tend to be more exact and I can see what they removed to make the dilogue flow better. Ideally I'll watch a series fansubbed (as they usually give you more contextual information than the subs on the US DVD's) and then archive it in Dual Audio, so I can rewatch it in English, but not get confused when stuff comes up that doesn't make as much sense.

Like DF said it's all a matter of preferance, but I think any series should be seen in the original language at least once if it pertains to Japanese culture, but if there are no cultural reasons I see no harm in relying on a dub to get your kicks. Oh wait...EDITING!!!!!!

One wildcard that dubs bring into play that can ruin an anime experiance is editing. I've recently started watching Tsukikage Ran DVD Rips and I find it hard to believe that Ran kills so many people with absolutely no blood loss suffered by any of them. I haven't found any subs yet so I'm not sure if the series was originally like that or edited for release in the US. It is oldish and thus sentiments could have been more anti-violence back then. Also I know that Naruto has had blood and homosexual kisses edited out on CN, though i'm not sure of those changes will translate to the DVD's or not.

EDIT @ BELOW: DDBEen reminded me of a good point, for me at least, it's easier to remember english VA's so when I hear a voice for the first time the voice tends to become locked into that charachter for me. Often this isn't a big deal but if a VA doesn't alter his or her voice enough for a role it can get distracting.

Some notable examples are Stephen Blum, who generally hides his Shishio well, but in Tsukikage Ran keeps making me think Shishio whenver his charachter speaks. Alison Keith who still sounded like Misato from Eva while playing Mao from FMP.

The worst by far has to have been Samurai Deeper Kyo, with VA Dan Green, who I first heard as Yami Yugi (a little punk bitch if you don't know) playing Kyo (a raging badass), every time Kyo speaks I think it' time to D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-Duel...

[DDBen]

Generally I prefer subs by a mile but there are a couple examples where the dubbing has imo surpased the sub.

The series I feel that this is most evident in is Those Who Hunt Elves where I found the changes to the script for the dubbing made the series much funnier then the subbed version.

Also while I wouldn't exactly say the dub was better I feel the Berserk dub was very well done and I would recommend that people atleast give it a try.

On the other side of this I feel certain shows have been destroyed by the dub to the point I can no longer enjoy the series. For me this includes Kenshin/Love Hina where all the same voice actors are used for both and expecially the random southern voices really effected the series for myself while I love both of those series in the subbed form. A example of a absolute abomination of a series being dubbed is One Piece but thats also a example for everything wrong with changing a anime in general. Finally as opposed to Love Hina and Kenshin where I hated the voice actors in both subs I found the Inu Yasha dub aweful because it reused all the same voice actors in the same roles as Ranma 1/2 and this mad it unwatchable for me. Note this had nothing to do with disliking the voice actors just the abuse of reusing everyone in a series that ends up seeming identical to another with the way they did this.

[Ryllharu]

I totally forgot about the Berserk dub, I love the dub, especially the bloopers they attached to all of the dvds. The sub track is great too though, so make your own decision with that one.

I agree mostly with DF, except in that dubs have gotten better. It's true that they are less edited for content (except 4Kids of course), are getting better at putting in cultural references or americanizing them appropriately when they can't, and otherwise making them work better. However, all of those are aspects of the translation, not the dubbing itself, which in my opinion had gotten much worse (though I believe it finally is starting to improve again).

The earlier dub casts in the late 90's and early 2000's were a lot better than what we have now. Pick up anything from then and you get diverse casts who really put a lot of effort into their acting. You get natural sounding emotions, and even attempts to mimic the original cast, thus getting the same effect the voice director on the Japanese track was going for. Then, for whatever reason, someone hit a wall. You'd hear the exact same cast in everything. (Rant moves on to usual dub related targets.) I am of course, once again referring to Wendee Lee and Monica Rial. Wendee Lee was great in Cowboy Bebop. Her VO is better than Megumi Hayashibara's. The problem is after that, she was cast in every single series, and sounds like the same annoying 8 year old in all of them. Monica Rial can't act. All her characters sound wooden and emotionless. Yet, she's cast in nearly every young role. I have heard good things about her in Speed Grapher though ("Monica Rial's first good VA job", etc). This issue stems from the problem that being a VA doesn't really pay all that well here. The other problem is that there are only three studios (East Coast, West Coast, and Houston).

But the voicework is improving at a slow rate. The Naruto cast has been getting much better, though the odd emphasis in the names still bothers me, IGPX is actually pretty good (I only watched it once), and there's some other new shows here and there with a good cast.

[Kraco]

Dubbing as a phenomenon is quite strange to me, as in Finland absolutely nothing but movies and TV series for little children are dubbed. Nothing. They once tried, I assume as a joke, dub a week of the "The Bold and the Beautiful" with the voices of very popular Finnish actors. It received quite a lot of attention (enough that I watched one episode, the only one for me of that series, just to see how hilarious it was). Generally speaking people took it as a temporal joke or were horrified that it would continue.

Well, having lived all my life in an environment where dubbing is almost as strange as crocodile in the local sewers or a lion in the nearby woods, I just naturally pick subs and stay away from dubs. It's fundamentally different for me.

One anime that's pretty good dubbed (and I haven't even yet seen it subbed yet), in addition to some mentioned here already, is "Nausicaa of the Valley of the Winds". Of course it's a movie, and thus automatically in a different situation than series. But with people like Patrick Stewart in the cast, it's quite nice indeed...

[XanBcoo]

I'm not even going to vote I'm so torn.

Generally, if I had the opportunity, I'd chose to watch the show in English. English dubbing has gotten good enough to where 3 out of 5 series today either match the original track, or do an even better job. I also prefer to watch in English most of the time for the reasons Deadfire listed. It's just more natural for me to watch a show in my native language. That said, if I've watched a series subbed, I'll usually stick to the subs. I think with a lot of people, whichever way they watch it first is the way they prefer. Watching anime in Japanese is also just cool. There's a certain charm that comes along with listening to a series in its native language. You guys know what I'm talking about.

I'm also a VA fanatic through and through, so that holds a lot of weight in deciding whether I watch a show dubbed in English or subbed in Japanese. If a Japanese voice actor that I love (like Masaya Onosaka, Romi Paku, or Shinichiro Miki) is cast in a series, I'll HAVE to listen to it subbed. The same goes with English voice actors. Any series that casts Blum, Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, or Liam O'Brian to name a few, earns an automatic English viewing. I'm also intensly interested whenever a show I've seen subbed is dubbed. I love seeing who-will-play-who and comparing line deliveries and styles of voices (hence the Naruto and Bleach dub threads I've created). Because of this, I'll often do what Yukimura said and watch it subbed first, then in English with the subtitles on.


The earlier dub casts in the late 90's and early 2000's were a lot better than what we have now. Pick up anything from then and you get diverse casts who really put a lot of effort into their acting. You get natural sounding emotions, and even attempts to mimic the original cast, thus getting the same effect the voice director on the Japanese track was going for. Then, for whatever reason, someone hit a wall. You'd hear the exact same cast in everything.
I know exactly what you're talking about (Goddamn, does EVERY ADV dub have to pair up Monica Rial and Chris Patton???), but I don't think that aspect of dubbing makes it any worse. In fact a lot of the time, I have fun trying to recognize voice actors from different series. Hearing the same actor in different roles is really cool, except when as you said, they sound...exactly the same. And are cast in every other series. The exception to this is the God that is Steve Blum - who is probably the most prolific anime voice actor out there, but has such talent and vocal range that it doesn't even matter when you hear him 5 times a night on Adult Swim. Has anyone else heard him do video game stuff like in Psychonauts? He's amazing.

But the voicework is improving at a slow rate
Of course I couldn't agree more. Some notable dubs I've seen just recently: Elfen Leid, Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, Final Fantasy: Advent Children, Fruits Basket, Eureka Seven, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, and Paranoia Agent. I could go on, but all of these did an awesome job and had a unique cast from one another. They also used both accomplished voice actors with good range as well as some new talents, showing that the cast reusing isn't as extreme as you say it is.

Another interesting point is that a lot of people claim to prefer subs because they say it's "original". In the end though, aren't most anime series based on manga? Aren't the lines just coming from written text? Any dub in any language is just that actor's portrayal of those written lines. Any American actor resembling the Japanese actors just seems like a nod to a good performance to me...and not a necessity for a good dub. People complained that Ed Elric sounded too different from Romi Paku and hated the FMA dub, even though the actor (Vic Mignogna) fit the role perfectly and in my opinion gave the best performance of his career. Again, I think preference is usually based on which language the show was watched in first.

[zibo]

I have to agree, some animes have really well dont dubbing, some don't. I really hate naruto dubs, especialy Narutos his voice is well annoying.

Personaly I prefer subs, but dubbing is cool when they have good voice actors.

[complich8]

To add to the list of decent-to-good dubs, the original Dragonball series English dubs felt remarkably fitting, to me. DBZ was pretty bad though.

But yeah, dubs are definitely hit-or-miss. There's little consistency across series, and it seems like a lot of English voice actors just don't seem to be able to express the range of emotions and expressions and moods that Japanese VA's usually do.

I think that a lot of voice acting work in the US is unappreciated. Like, in Japan, a voice actor is generally well known just for being a voice actor, and the VA talent pool is fairly broad. In the US, it seems to be more like the VA talent pool is extremely small, and a lot of voice work is done by famous actors/actresses who already have well-known non-voice personas, and then they get recruited to lend their persona's characteristics to a similar character.

Not to say there isn't a very good, very dedicated US voice acting talent pool. Just that that's often extremely underappreciated, and it's very small in comparison.

[kenren]

SuB of course !! i prefer watching anime with subs .. i guess i'm used to it

[masamuneehs]

totally forgot to mention that dubs are one of the best ways to introduce people to anime. that alone gives it bookoo points. perhaps its best attribute.

[Yukimura]

lol who was the other person that picked dubs with me? I picked dubs since you actually get both with a dub od you can choose. If you want to bring people into anime (I don't think too many people who post here want to keep anime locked up and away from the general public) then often it's easier if you give them dual audios, as they might not want to plunge into reading subs while watching a show, a skill many lay people seem to lack.

[mage]

They should just make Robin Williams dub all characters in every anime from now on. He's fucking elite.

[Munsu]

Indeed, they should just get people that can pretty much imitate anyones voice like Frank Caliendo.

[Assertn]

trigun dub

[Apraxhren]

lol who was the other person that picked dubs with me?
That would have been me, until a third person also chose dub. I chose dubs solely for the fact that I only will watch the subs the first time then usually after that will never watch the subs again if I have the choice. I am not very picky when it comes to dubs and I probably tolerate worse quality than most. One reason is the second time I watch an anime is usually later at night and it is harder to read laying down while also having to look at the screen the entire time to know what is happening. I rarely sit down and re-watch anything unless I greatly enjoyed it and enough time has passed, though for some reason I can't explain my compulsion to keep every series I've watched, when I'll never watch it again. :D

One thing I like to remind myself when watching a dub is to ask whether the voice is appropriate to the character rather than to the previous voice actor. It is sometimes hard when I am used to hearing something one way to judge.

[Yukimura]

You're quite similar to me then, I keep everything I watch to completion with the exception of Black Cat. And I tend to replace subs with dual audio as well. Since I prefer english, but can switch if I'm feeling nostalgic.

[XanBcoo]

trigun dub
People keep saying the Trigun dub is great, but I really don't like it. Despite my love for dubs, this is one of the shows I can't watch in English. Johnny Young Bosch is a great voice actor, but he was totally miscast as Vash. I also don't think Wolfwood's voice suits him. The dub isn't bad I guess, I just was impressed by those two characters' Japanese voices. Legato's dubbed voice is great though.


Indeed, they should just get people that can pretty much imitate anyones voice like Frank Caliendo.
I think that would be a great idea, except that well known voice actors cost so much. It's already been mentioned that anime studios stick to roughly the same pool of voice actors, and this is usually the reason. ADV or Funimation have some really talented people, but probably can't afford to hire big-name VAs. There are definitely some English-speaking actors that anime could use. My picks would be Phil LaMarr (Samurai Jack, Green Latern from JLU, Vamp from MGS2), Billy West (about 5 characters on Futurama, including Fry), Maurice LaMarche (Brain from Pinky and the Brain, Morbo from Futurama), and Tara Strong (Bubbles from PPG, Raven from Teen Titans, Rikku from FFX, and damn near every young male in American cartoons). These guys have great range and could fit into any anime role easily. Pretty much the only time we get famous actors in anime is when they dub Miyazaki's movies. Also Steamboy.

[Nai]

I tend to find dubs amazingly stupid if the setting is typically Japanese as they just sound so damn corny and misplaced. But I don't really mind dubs as long as they fit the setting. Hell, in some cases they even succeed the original as was the case with Isaac in Castlevania: Curse of Darkness. I absolutely adore his English voice actor.

So, I don't really think the problem is that we lack good English voice actors ( David Warner is my God ). I just think they get handed extremely poorly translated scripts most of the time. Directly translating a script from Japanese to English never works well. You need to rework and reword it and make it feel more fluid.

With that said, some things should never be dubbed. I'm looking at you, Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams. Oh well, at least they kept Roberto speaking Spanish.