TV: The 4400

[Munsu]

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1383/67o6ik3ft9.jpg

Since late last year, this series has become one of my favorites. Wondering how many of you follow it. Last week season 3 started with a 2 hour premiere, to what seems like it'll be the best season yet. Anyways, last night episode 3 of season 3 aired, so I'm starting a thread for the series seeing if anyone wants to discuss it.

Here are season 1 and 2:
http://isohunt.com/dl.php?id=11828259

Here are episodes 1 and 2 of season 3:
http://www.bt-chat.com/download.php?info_hash=d29d6d816486e593696c2b292a9 7c37865dd4425

Here's episode 3 of season 3:
http://www.bt-chat.com/download.php?info_hash=7b6484a9e90d0960b0e6a004dac 7d26b71367176

Here's a summary episode for the first 2 seasons:
http://www.bt-chat.com/download.php?info_hash=fc1d62417ef2341194a9ee13632 064217184c9d7

[rockmanj]

That consultant dude is creepy, i wonder if he can predict the future?? An also, if sean nails isabelle, does that make him a pedophile??

[Munsu]

Yeah, I hate the consultant dude also... But he's a necessary evil. I indeed think he can predict the future, though I'm confused... Is he a 4400? I had the feeling he wasn't when he was first introduced, maybe he's simply the de facto leader of the Nova Group, so he knows what's going to happen because of that.

Anyways, just watched episode 3... the ending was kinda sick, he's a pedophile.

Downloading episode 4 atm.

[Yukimura]

The 4400 - Episode 3-04 (http://www.bt-chat.com/download.php?info_hash=81691f81aad09001f00cb748819 485bc3ac45a4e)

Interesting episode, Alice Krieg is awesome, she's so good at being evil but kinda/sorta/maybe good at the same time. Her (Lady Jessica in Children of Dune TV Movie) and Maya (Kwisatz Haderach ripoff) remind me of Dune, which brings in the question of whether Maya was trapped in her visions. She left all those clues based on what she thought was going to happen, but she apparently didn't see that the future people were going to take her back. Or she knew and couldn't avoid it for some reason. It's too bad this show doesn't have the time to really delve into the issues associated with oracular powers, it would be very interesting to see how they handled it.

As to Isabelle, I always wondered why she bothered with the consultant guy. He was always mean to her and telling her what to do, but never seemed to give her a reason why she should listen to him. I guess she was still in the young and impressionable stage when he got to her. But obviously she's grown out of that!

And where is Jordan Collier?!?!?! The consultant guy seems to know he's back, but isn't trying to get in touch with him, making him even more suspicious than before.

[Munsu]

Well, I just finished watching season 3... just in time for season 4 starting next Sunday.

I thought season 3 was great, some old forgotten characters made some appearances which was nice. I was hoping Eve would kill more people, and that we would be able to see bit more of those enhanced soldiers fighting.

Hopefully season 4 will be just as good and I wish we'll be able to see the actual war and some great action scenes.

[rockmanj]

i still think sean is a huge child molester, and should be put away

[rockmanj]

So Collier' ablility is power negation...kinda interesting. And that's kinda sad about the whole Alana thing. She's back in the 1800s? And where did richard go? He was like my fav. character. So many questions

[Yukimura]

Glad this is back, it's made the last few summers much more enjoyable. Graham's power was pretty cool, but of course he was doomed to abuse it instead of making people take a turn for the better.

As to Collier I'm guessing he's been sent back as 4400 policeman, though his meglomania is still there to keep his charachter interesting. The Alana situation reeks of actor troubles instead of story driven so I doubt she'll ever be back for more than a cameo, which is sad. Kyle may in fact have developed a power, the ability to interact with people from the future in his head, which would let him fill part of Alana's old role.

All in all I think the season has potential, but still no firm direction other than 'save the world' hopefully they'll go into more details this time.

[conquistaDan]

tonight's episode was pretty good, and the story of Tom's wife Alana being painted by an artist in the past and having a connection of some kind thrown out there like that.

The kid was kinda freaky though. And oh my god I've never hated an intro to a good TV show so much in my life.

note by the way:I hate and am terrified by clowns

[Yukimura]

I felt lukewarm about this episode. It almost seems like the show has jumped the shark with these last two eps. They keep trying to tie up loose ends from last season, but all in the background of the new stuff going on with the promicin poppers. They haven't really tied up anything but they're still dumoing new stuff into the mix at an alarming rate.

Hopefully the next ep will see the reemergence of the 4400 center and organized 4400's doing things again, I don't know how that will work without Jordan but it should make for interesting TV.

[rockmanj]

Well, Sean has been running the center for the longest, and he did a pretty good job (except for that whole nova group thing). So i'm guessing he'll be back at the center, doing what he does best. And kyle's power is kinda weird/good...i dont know how i feel about it yet, but if i had that power, id kind of be mad...i mean, who wants an imaginary friend as a power?

[Yukimura]

At least she's got intersting info. I'm guessing she's somehow linked to the future in a more direct way than we've seen before. Maybe Kyle is going to take over his dad's job as doer of things for the future people.

[rockmanj]

Is it me, or is kyle getting creepier and creepier by the episode?

Plus...the creepy future people doing something to Tom is a little creepy, since Tom is also supposed to get an ability later. That makes him like, super dangerous now...hmm

[infidel]

Is it me, or is kyle getting creepier and creepier by the episode?

Plus...the creepy future people doing something to Tom is a little creepy, since Tom is also supposed to get an ability later. That makes him like, super dangerous now...hmm
I agree. A lot of the characters in the series are becoming creepier by the episode. So far, I am not liking this season as much as last. They practically got rid of two primary characters and the other ones really aren't doing much this season.

[rockmanj]

Wtf...richard returns, but he seemed out of practice with his acting...-_-: Hope it picks up.

[Yukimura]

Richard was extremely odd this ep, but I can see how after all he went through he might want to just start over. The Tess and Shawn thing seemed really forced and uninspiring, but I suspect it was all just a setup for the "will you die from promicin test that I suspect will be forthcoming".

[infidel]

Personally...I thought that the latest episode was creepy. I am assuming Isabelle is going to grow up again from a science in the previews for next week. Hopeful of course, mainly because I feel bad for Kyle.

[rockmanj]

Maybe her body will be able to produce promycin, something like a jump start. I'm guessing that could happen, since she was made little again.

[infidel]

Anybody watch the episode last night? It was a rather weird episode, didn't really do anything for the plot except get us to where we were the episode before last.

[Yukimura]

Infidel I'm guessing you you missed every single seen with Tom in it. Anyway from what he said I suspect there is some way Isabelle can get her powers back, and since she's a still just big baby she'll probably go evil again at the drop of a hat.

Something that really confused me though was Cassie's instructions playing right into the Marked peoples hands. Who's side is she actually on anyway?

[infidel]

Infidel I'm guessing you you missed every single seen with Tom in it. Anyway from what he said I suspect there is some way Isabelle can get her powers back, and since she's a still just big baby she'll probably go evil again at the drop of a hat.

Something that really confused me though was Cassie's instructions playing right into the Marked peoples hands. Who's side is she actually on anyway?
I saw every scene with Tom in it, but it really doesn't do much for the plot. They need to think of more inventive ways to spice this season up, especially following last season.

[rockmanj]

I think the 'Evil Tom' angle is kinda interesting, but i don't wanna see that for the rest of the show, i mean, honestly its starting to get a little old. I also wonder what his powers will be when he takes the shot (you know he will). And Isabelle and Kyle? Ugh...The last time he saw her, she was a toddler!!!! I'm sick of all this pedophilia :\

[rockmanj]

***bump

The past episode wasnt that bad; esp. when Diana showed a lot of balls shooting "Tom". Too bad they waited til the end of the season to make good episodes.

[rockmanj]

BUMP

So, the season ended; the finale was actually pretty good, but one thing i don't get is, wasn't Tom like, in Seattle. Why didnt he get an ability...and will he take the shot?? Plus, lol at Diana not gaining a power b/c of natural immunity. No one else has been watching at all??

[Yukimura]

I've watched every week but I didn't really have much to say and didn't think anyone else was.

Isabel managed to redeem herself so I'm happy about that, though I don't know what's going to happen with Richard now. I'd like to see him brought back personally. Tom spent most of his time at that house which was in the suburbs and even if he was in the city proper the virus spread mostly to people involved with the containment effort in some way, which he wasn't.

Everyone and his mother getting abilities was quite an interesting twist, though only Marco's ability really seemed cool. But I didn't like the way they just wedged in a promcin vaccine and Diana's immunity. (And how Kevin could get a complete hormone test in only a few hours).

But they did lay good threads for next season, p positives control Seattle, Jordan is technically still Marked (we never saw Shawn and co. fix him and there was that scene with him looking at the magazine), Tom and Jordan both know who the Marked are, and
I suspect sometime next season we'll see someone (probably a Marked) from the outside suggesting that everyone in the country be forced to take Ubiquinone. Oh and Tom will take the shot, but what will his ability be!?!? Suck that we have to wait until next summer, but such is the TV business.

[Munsu]

This is bullshit, it seems like the show might've been cancelled... hopefully it's all a hoax:
http://www.tv.com/story/10626.html

[Abdula]

I won't be surprised if its true, both shows were disappointing last season. I'm not surprised about Deadzone although I'll miss it but the new season of 4400 looked promising. It looked like 4400 was coming to an end though, they could have atleast brought it back for 1 or 2 more seasons and let them finish it out.

[Yukimura]

I really hope this is a hoax. The 4400 had one of the most interesting concepts of any TV show around (except Heroes of course) it was getting a little weird after last season but the characters made it worth watching even if the story was becoming a bit misguided.

If they do cancel it I would hope they'll replace it with something at least of the same genre. NBC did a good job after canceling Surface by airing Heroes, hopefully the same people are involved with picking replacements for shows on USA as well. What worries me is that I don't remember the Sunday 9:00-11:00 PM summer lineup having any other sci-fi drama shows so if they're really turning their back on both 4400 and Dead Zone they may be turning their backs on Sci-Fi drama in general.

[animus]

I'm halfway through watching Season 4 now, and I like it a lot. Shame they're cancelling it. I even signed the save the 4400 online petition.

[animus]

Finished watching the last episode of Season 4, but it was a really good one. I want more =(

[Munsu]

This was simply a dumb move by USA... I can understand them cancelling The Dead Zone, which has really gone down hill last couple of seasons, but cancelling The 4400 is just plain dumb.

Plans to save the show:
http://www.tv.com/story/10796.html

[Abdula]

Well I think the reason the show was canceled was because it didn't get much viewers despite the fact that it has a rather large fan base. Seriously everyone has been jumping on the send them something and they'll bring back your show back wagon lately. Do they actually think USA is anything like CBS.

Journey man fans sending in boxes of Rice-a-Roni now that is hilarious.

[Munsu]

Well I think the reason the show was canceled was because it didn't get much viewers despite the fact that it has a rather large fan base. Seriously everyone has been jumping on the send them something and they'll bring back your show back wagon lately. Do they actually think USA is anything like CBS.

Journey man fans sending in boxes of Rice-a-Roni now that is hilarious.
That's my point, this smaller networks like USA, Sci-Fi, The CW need to base a tv show's success on something else rather than on ratings (unless they are utterly horrible). They need to base it on critical acclaim and on dvd sales for starters; the best these networks can do is hope to have a show that has a cult following; and The 4400 certainly had that. For comparisons, look at the Battlestar Galactica ratings which is highly successful, yet they have terrible ratings (on big network standards).

And also, look at the Supernatural ratings, which aren't good at all and the show has quite a high following. These are simply networks that won't attract many viewers no matter what they do. CSI could've started in one of these networks and I doubt it would have near the success it has had on CBS.

Cancelling The 4400 was completely dumb, especially if the decision was based on a completely flawed system like the Nielsen Ratings. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the revenue structure for the networks and tv shows is awful. They need to find a better one, but no one has the balls to do it. If I were them, I'd start by doing direct to dvd episodes, selling those along with advertisement, and then air the episodes... after that, you sell the season boxsets. I don't know about you, but that seems quite logical to me.

[Abdula]

I concur.

CSI definitely would never have made it if it was on a smaller network and I remember thinking for a while, in the beginning, that Supernatural wouldn't survive and based on the latest interview with Kripke I would say that the question is still out there.

I don't think that your plan would work for all shows but it would be great for a show like 4400 and I would imagine that it would also be incredibly more profitable.

[Munsu]

Oh certainly, it wouldn't work for most shows, especially established ones... but it gives an opportunity for the networks to make money in a more organic structure, instead of solely relying on advertisements when the shows air. It also gives them an opportunity to test the market, in a fairly low-cost and high revenue manner, it gives the viewers and consumers more input in what shows deserve to stay and which don't, and they can make a lot of money off desperate people.

It's like a drug. For example, for a given show, you can release 1 dvd every two weeks with two episodes of that show, and you can combine it with two episodes of another. For that dvd you sell advertisements as well as sell the dvds to the consumers. Then after 4 weeks or so, you start airing the show. So now you're selling dvds and airing the show simultaneously, only thing is that dvds are about 4 episodes ahead of when it airs (which is also selling advertisements). So what does this mean, that people who CAN'T wait for the next episode are going to keep buying these dvds, especially if the episodes end of cliffhangers. Don't you think there would sell well, considering how many people are desperate to know what's going to happen next? At about $5 a dvd or something, wouldn't they make a ton of money? For a full 24 episode season, they can make about 12 different dvds for a season, that's 12 single dvds they'll be selling for quite a lot of revenue I would think.

What this also allows it's for them to allow to show the public a ton of pilots. People love to watch pilots, and the networks can get a better sense of what shows are worth taking the next step forward with and with which not. They get better information, while making money at the same time. It's a win-win situation from where I see it. And this are just general ideas, if someone where to polish them with a better business sense than I have, then they'll surely make a ton of money off the shows, and hopefully it'll lead to more successful shows and less cancellations.

[Abdula]

I completely agree with you.

[Yukimura]

Bud your theory reeks of what the US anime industry tries to do, and it hasn't been working out so well for them, though their prices are much higher than what you suggested.

"Buy before you try" just doesn't sit well with me as a consumer and I hate that you have to do it for pretty much all purchases. Television is one of the few venues where it's "try before you buy" and I feel that losing that would make television a chore instead of a relaxation tool.

The biggest problem I see with your idea is I don't think the majority of people would want the hassle of choosing which new 2 episode DVD's they should buy each season. They'd be looking at spending $10-$50 per season for what they are used to getting completely for free. Even at $10 the cost is significantly more than just watching/TiVoing an episode or four to get a sense of a series. So what incentive does John Q. Citizen, who just watches TV casually, have to start "buying before he tries"?

Now from a hardcore fan perspective I can see the merits off this plan, since instead of having what is aired decided by focus groups picked by TV studios or whatever it is they do, it would be decided by the aggregate amount money people are willing to spend to see something. However the crucial issue then becomes, is the total amount of money hardcore fans would be willing to spend enough to offset the potential loss in advertising revenue from making shows catered to the subset of people willing to pay for their entertainment instead of as many different people as is feasible in one show.

As an advertiser I would be wary of investing any advertising dollars into something that was chosen because it caters to people who would spend lots of money to get and keep TV show on the air. If my potential consumers had to make a purchasing decision between buying my product and buying a DVD to keep their TV show on the air then by funding that TV show I'm effectively investing in giving people a reason not to buy my product.

So what do you think? Can enough money really be milked directly out of the pockets of Firefly, BSG, and 4400 type fans to offset the potential money made by replacing any of those shows with something more sensational and aimed to grab the most eyes, and thus the most advertising incentives possible?

I can't see how selling DVD's before people have seen a show is a viable option except if it was done like Battlestar Galactica was. Make a stand-alone DVD movie and release that, (you should probably air it too). Then if people eat up the dvd of the stand-alone, you create a show around it. Then maybe you could release DVD's ahead of the actual show to determine if there's still a market for it, while simultaneously making some money, but, the people buying the DVD's are much less likely to be affected by TV ads advertisements b/c either they won't watch it on TV or won't buy the products seen due to their need to spend money on TV show DVDs.

If I have missed any incentives for either the business side or consumer side please enlighten me, but as I understand it your model offers hardcore fans a lot, but the everyday consumer and advertisers very little. What incentives would average consumer have to offset paying money to get the same thing they currently get for free? And what incentive would advertisers have to spend big bucks advertising on a show that the people who really like it have probably already seen and the general public may not even like it.

[Munsu]

Actually, it's quite different. Many people have watched the anime before it even comes out on DVD. With this, episodes are completely new... there's more incentive for you to buy them in order to watch them.

And again, it would be shown on tv anyways in a couple of weeks... so you'll get your episodes for free if you're willing to wait.

I'm not sure if you missed the part where I said that the episodes would air after the dvd comes out, in a matter of weeks. And I think you missed the part were I mentioned that these pre-air DVD would be selling advertisements themselves... just as if it would if it were airing, and then again sell advertisements when it aired.

You also have to remember that at any given timeslot a viewer can only watch ONE thing. So, that a hardcore viewer already watched the episode is really of no consequence because there's no assurance that he would've seen the episode anyways. ALSO remember that ratings only is affected by a small portion of the population, so hardcore fans may not even have nielsen boxes... so who cares if they buy the dvd since wether they view the episode or not wouldn't have affected the ratings.

And it's kinda absurd to think that you have to choose between buying a dvd that's worth $3 dollars or so and between something advertised on DVD. "Hmm, we have an ad for a BMW... damnit, that's not going to work because the consumer already spent $3 dollars on this dvd. Crap!!!!" I guess it's useless to advertise on movie theaters too while we are at it, and on newspapers and the likes. There are sponsors, and companies that benefit from the selling of dvds, if that's what you're worried about. What about Best Buy wanting to advertise or Blockbuster? Maybe Netflix would want to. What about SONY and other electronic companies?

So by your understanding, a network is better off showing a show on air with its advertisements (shows that are usually poor in ratings, most are... successful shows are very rare, especially those on small networks)... than selling DVDs with advertisements and then airing it with advertisements? You think they'll make more money with the former? Doesn't make sense to me. So by your accounts, the system currently in place works... and that's why so many shows get cancelled and why many shows aren't being profitable. There's clearly something wrong with their business model. Anything at this point that has the potential to bring in more revenue has to be better than it.