Customized computer?

[itadakimasu]

I've never had an asus board but they have a good reputation.

If no overclocking, are you going to run crossfire? have you picked out ram? 4gb should be your minimum since ddr2 is dirt cheap.

my last 3 boards have been gigabyte and despite my current boards quirks ( weird ddr3 ram voltage issues ) i'm going to stick w\ them.

as far as cases, maybe you can get a good deal on a 900 ? they had them for $50 a while ago @ frys but idk. i got my 3d aurora off craigslist for $50 and it was still in its box w\ plastic ( yes.. im notoriously cheap and thrifty )
I like the cosmos but its a huge case.

[Animeniax]

I've always used Asus motherboards but never tried their highest-end motherboards. Recently I've read reviews on some of their top motherboards and there are a lot of complaints. Something like 1 in 4 are DOA, particularly with their Striker series. This could be chalked up to inexperienced users who are too-aggressively overclocking or improperly installing the board or using incompatible components, but it could also be a quality control issue since Asus has grown so much and tried to do everything in the PC world, which usually results in loss of quality for their less high-profile components.

I think Lian-Li cases are overpriced. Antec rules.

[Buffalobiian]

No, there's no intention of running crossfire on it. Maybe the next one we get, but not this one.

The impression I'm getting with Asus and Gigabyte from everyone is mixed. They both seem good, but imperfect, with the occasional bad product.

No particular board to recommend? In that case, I guess I'll have a look around. We'll be using the 3GB DDR2 667 RAM from our old machine. I know RAM is cheap these days too, but 32-bit systems can't enjoy the full advantage :(. Actually, I've never had to use more than 2GB myself...

As for the Cosmos...yeah, I like it too. I'm not concerned that it's big and heavy, just more about the price and how quiet it actually is. The P182 seems to focus on that more, and I can't find a review of it (cosmos) on silentpcreview.com neither. Hexus did one, but it doesn't say much.

It's the first time I've heard of Lian-Li. I checked out their website, the the most memorable thing about it was how they spelt Valume.

[Board of Command]

Lian-Li is a premium brand. You will find that their cheapest and simplest cases cost a fortune compared to similar-looking products on the market.

As for motherboard, I would recommend Asus over Gigabyte. Their BIOSes are much nicer. Every Asus BIOS from the past five or so years has the exact same layout and labels. I love working with Asus motherboards because every model has the same BIOS layout and I know exactly where everything is even if I've never used that particular board before.

All of my desktops at home have Asus motherboards (P5K-E, P5KPL-VM, 2x M2A-VM) and regardless of platform, they all have the same BIOS layout as well as physical board layout. Consistency is a major plus with Asus.

[Animeniax]

If you've been out of the game for a while like me, you can check magazines like PC Gamer or Maximum PC. Towards the back of every issue they list their favorite parts in each category. I haven't checked MaximumPC lately, but PC Gamer even lists a high-end, mid-ge, and low-end parts list. Mixing and matching (they advise dual-video cards in the mid-range scenario while not opting for a Raptor harddrive) will yield a good system in your price range.

[Buffalobiian]

On a different note, how important is thermal paste? I've seen some PC builder guides (It's the first time I've built one from scratch, though I've taken things apart), and all of the ones I've read don't actually mention it. I know it's only necessary when the cpu and mobo contact is crap, so how do I tell? I think I'm competent to build it myself rather than dishing out $70.

[Kraco]

The guides I've read mention it's important you don't have too much of it, but you have to use it. Apparently the thermal paste isn't that great a heat conductor itself, so only the very minimum of it, so that no air space is left, is optimal. I've tried to follow that advice.

Air is the core element of any insulation material, aside from vacuum in vacuum bottles, so I've always thought it's a nobrainer whether it's good to leave air between the processor and the cooling element. Although I don't remember if I've read any reviews on how big a temperature difference with or without caused.

[itadakimasu]

the thermal paste that comes w\ some zalman 9500, 9700's is great because its got a brush to apply it.

arctic silver has a good reputation though. and like the others said, not too much. don't want any running down onto the mobo or getting into the cpu socket.

[salmonman78]

Arctic Silver is good, I added some to my computer after I got it and it does help a bit to keep it a tad cooler. A nice even layer, be careful not to slather it on.

As for cases I have the Logisys Area 51-W case, has the side window, the imitation alien eyes and good circulation room.

As for whats in it:
ALiveNF7G-HDReady Board
AMD Athlon 64x2 5200+
3Gb Ram(2 G.Skill 1Gb sticks with heatsinks, 1 generic)
160Gb Seagate HD
Nvidia 7300 LE
Basic CD-rom
HP DVD burner

granted I still need a better card for video(looking at the ATi 4670 just released) it runs excellently as is and only cost about $300. I can help ya out with some good shoppin links.

[itadakimasu]

Salmonman : I found this one the other day. I was pricing out a budget build :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161252 -$90

i liked it because my 3870 gets so hot and this doesn't take external power and still has good stats on paper, low point being 128 bit but i'm guessing it would still be alot better than the 7 series you have now. also have a 1gb model for $20-30 more.

[salmonman78]

Yup, all i have is a 480watt supply and don't want to have to invest right now so the low power usage yet the power it provides graphics-wise is excellent for the money. I was actually thinking of the Saphirre 1Gb model for $90 so I don't lose a slot.

gotta love newegg, might get a 1Tb drive from them for my birthday, filling up both my 160Gb now lol

[Board of Command]

On a different note, how important is thermal paste? I've seen some PC builder guides (It's the first time I've built one from scratch, though I've taken things apart), and all of the ones I've read don't actually mention it. I know it's only necessary when the cpu and mobo contact is crap, so how do I tell? I think I'm competent to build it myself rather than dishing out $70.
Thermal paste is the most overrated and overblown aspect of any custom system. You can even get away with no thermal paste for chips that have heatspreaders on them. For naked chips (e.g. mobile CPUs and most GPUs), thermal paste acts like a cushion between the heatsink and the silicon so that you don't have direct contact which can lead to scratches (which leads to defective chips).

It really doesn't matter which thermal paste you use and how you apply it. Forget all those "guides" on the internet telling you how important it is to spread it evenly over the chip with a credit card. It really doesn't matter. The only thing you need to do is make sure not to put too much paste on. That's it. That's the only concern you have when you apply thermal paste. Just get it on there and make sure you don't use too much.

I've mounted enough heatsinks at ATI to realize how silly it is when some self-proclaimed hardcore system builder on the internet tells you to put on a latex glove and spread the thermal paste with your finger. It really makes no difference. At the ATI benchmark lab where we mount up to a hundred CPU heatsinks a month, we use the cheapest white silicone thermal paste and spread it with a broken toothpick. That's now little thermal paste matters. If thermal paste is the difference between cool-running and overheating in your system, then you have much bigger issues to worry about.

To put things in perspective, the difference between the best thermal interface compound spread the most ideal way and the worst thermal interface compound simply dumped on the chip is like... 3-4 degrees Celsius.

[Board of Command]

Phenom II launched today. I got myself a Phenom II 920 with Gigabyte 790GX motherboard. This replaced my Phenom 9500 and Asus 690G. I'm actually fairly impressed with this system. At stock settings, Vista Business runs surprisingly smooth with just 1 GB of memory. I'm running a video encode test to see how much faster it is than my old system for x264. So far, encoding is WAY faster. 1st-pass is almost 50% faster. 2nd-pass has yet to start.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2677/phenomii920gp8.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/622/capturenx0.png

[darkshadow]

whats with that extreme throttling? powersaver mode or something?

[Board of Command]

Yeah, with Cool n' Quiet it goes all the way down to 4x multiplier. Idle power is fairly impressive as shown in several review sites (e.g. Anandtech).

Also, before someone picks up that I got a Gigabyte motherboard even though I don't like Gigabyte: I had no "choice" ;) I still stand by my opinion regarding Gigabyte's motherboards. This board was no different.

[Buffalobiian]

Installed the CPU today. It's an Intel E8400 3.0GHz dual core. It's 28C ambient here, and BIOS shows:

System temp: 49C
CPU temp: 50C
CPU FAN RPM: ~2000

It's on stock cooling. The heat sink came with some paste on it already, so I just slapped it on top like I'm supposed to and secured it. I had a bit of trouble doing the "pushing" on the fans, but I didn't remove the heat sink from the processor during the process.

But yeah, 50C at idle isn't good. my dusty 2.4 C2D idles at 39 on hot days. Any help?

[itadakimasu]

from what i know, intel stock coolers aren't really great. I like the zalman 9500 or 9700's, they're worked great for me before. For some reason I sold the extra one I had that i'd got for $20 and now i'm thinking of switching my water cooling to that but dont want to blow $60.

BOC, was the gigabyte board a combo? or a gimme?

[Buffalobiian]

Yeah. I did some googling, and the E8x00 series are meant to run fairly warm, with an operation temp of 70C. The E6x00, which was what I was comparing to, has a lower thermal profile.

I guess as long as it works and ain't throttled I'm fine with it. Thanks for the help guys.

[Board of Command]

BOC, was the gigabyte board a combo? or a gimme?
It was self serve.

[Animeniax]

Yeah. I did some googling, and the E8x00 series are meant to run fairly warm, with an operation temp of 70C. The E6x00, which was what I was comparing to, has a lower thermal profile.

I guess as long as it works and ain't throttled I'm fine with it. Thanks for the help guys.
Time to upgrade the HSF or go to water-cooling maybe?

So does the new phenom chip make AMD a viable alternative to Core2Quad?

[Board of Command]

Within the same price range, yes. Both Phenom II chips are quite comparable to the likes of Q9400 and Q9300. I'd be happy with either one if I were to build a new system right now. Phenom II is a HUGE improvement over the original Phenom.

One thing to note though: I would rather wait for the AM3 version of Phenom II to launch. They are backward compatible with AM2+ motherboards and have even lower power consumption.

[Board of Command]

I finally received my E8400 today and ended up with this overclock:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6568/e840041zo0.th.jpg (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e840041zo0.jpg)

My RAM is holding back the overclock. 456 FSB is the highest I can go with this cheap crap, and I'm in no mood of spending another ~$60 just to get a marginally higher overclock. This is the same FSB limit that I hit with my E6300 two years ago because I'm still using the same set of RAM right now.

Here it is running Linpack:
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8158/e8400linpackcd3.th.png (http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=e8400linpackcd3.png)

Max temperature on Linpack is only 58 degrees. Orthos/Prime95 only toasts it to 49 degrees. This is using an Ultra-120 Extreme with a fan spinning at about only 500 RPM.

[itadakimasu]

I think I'm going to part out the last system I built. Its basically collecting dust and its hard to justify needing a q9450, 1000w psu, ddr3, etc for general use.

I'm reverting back to an AMD X2 6000+, i got a sapphire pure 690 mobo that has hdmi, i already have 4gb but plan on getting another 4gb kit and i'm going to keep one of my 150gb raptor x's also.

if anybody wants to buy my corsair hx1000 I'll do it for $170 shipped, otherwise I'm ebaying it @ 210-220.

I will post pictures when I'm done. I think I'm going to keep my huge 3d aurora case unless I can trade for an antec 900.

[Buffalobiian]

Just wondering, do people actually need 4gb RAM? I've never used more than 2GB when I was encoding and playing a FPS at the same time.

Do you guys run some type of memory intensive applications, or is all that extra memory basically serving as an ultra-fast paging file?

[darkshadow]

People get 4gb of ram because they think they need it, seeing how even crysis and Fallout3 dont use 2gb ( 1-1.5gb), 2gb hould be more then enough, 3gb if you want to play it save. And ofcourse so they can say "Yeah but I got 4gb :D".

Though for people like me, that run Photoshop, 3dsMax and perhaps some encoding utility at the same time, 2+ gb is really needed.
I only have 2gb and find myself closing and reopening apps a lot when working on a project.

[Board of Command]

4 GB helps in Vista because Superfetch uses every last drop.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm going about making my computer more quiet, planning on replacing some case fans as well as getting a new CPU heatsink.

I've got two on mind, a tower heatsink (blows to back of case) and a top-down heatsink (blows down onto the motherboard). I've read that top-down ones are better in that they create airflow over nearby capacitors, hence cooling them, while tower/sidemount fans only cool the heatsink. Tower h/s, however, allow for a bigger fins & surface area, making them better CPU coolers.

As a CPU cooler, the top-down one I'm looking at is $10 more expensive, and slightly less effective (though the difference is almost negligible) compared to the tower version.

What I want to ask is - how important is it to keep these capacitors/motherboard components cool? My north bridge is passively cooled.

[Board of Command]

What is your motherboard?

All the best CPU coolers are tower heatsinks. I have an Ultra-120 Extreme and it cools my E8400 @ 4.1 GHz extremely well. I have an Arctic Cooling 120mm PWM fan on it, and it spins really slow (~500 RPM) so it's virtually silent.

The Xigmatek HDT-S1283 is one of the most popular heatsinks right now and it's cheaper than the Ultra-120 Extreme. The OCZ Vendetta 2 is an even cheaper alternative and performs equally well as the Xigmatek.

[Buffalobiian]

My board's a Gigabyte 965P-S3, running E6600 stock (2.4GHz, 1.6GHz when idle)

I was initially looking at the ThermalRight HR-01 PLUS, but then I found the Noctua U12P, which is in stock, $20 cheaper, similar performance and includes a Noctua 120mm fan while the HR Plus came with h/s alone.

I'm mainly looking at making the rig more silent. The Antec Tri-cools are noisy IMO, so I'll be swapping them for a pair of Noctua 120mm. I'm not quite sure if the resonance is due to them or the Intel stock fan though. I'm planning on just replacing the case fans, then maybe get the h/s after that if I feel like making things even quieter/cooler.

Anyone know if replacing the case fans will actually help? I've unplugged the Tri-Cool fans, and it quietens down A LOT, but I don't know how much better the Noctuas will fare.

For reference, Silent PC review rates the Tricools at 25dBA@1m when set on low (what I have), and the Noctua at 16dBA@1m when downvolted to 7V, which is what I'm doing.

--------------------------
Side question: "System temperature" means North Bridge temperature, right? Mine's always been rather high, usually sitting on 50C. How hot does it have to be until I should get a n/b cooler?

It used to be around the same as the CPU, but I think ever since installing a 9800GTX+, it's no longer in the way if direct airflow, leading to the higher temps.

[darkshadow]

What are good north/southbridge coolers? Mine are running pretty hot.

[Board of Command]

My board's a Gigabyte 965P-S3, running E6600 stock (2.4GHz, 1.6GHz when idle)

I was initially looking at the ThermalRight HR-01 PLUS, but then I found the Noctua U12P, which is in stock, $20 cheaper, similar performance and includes a Noctua 120mm fan while the HR Plus came with h/s alone.

I'm mainly looking at making the rig more silent. The Antec Tri-cools are noisy IMO, so I'll be swapping them for a pair of Noctua 120mm. I'm not quite sure if the resonance is due to them or the Intel stock fan though. I'm planning on just replacing the case fans, then maybe get the h/s after that if I feel like making things even quieter/cooler.

Anyone know if replacing the case fans will actually help? I've unplugged the Tri-Cool fans, and it quietens down A LOT, but I don't know how much better the Noctuas will fare.

For reference, Silent PC review rates the Tricools at 25dBA@1m when set on low (what I have), and the Noctua at 16dBA@1m when downvolted to 7V, which is what I'm doing.
Your motherboard doesn't really additional cooling on the small components. The passive northbridge heatsink will get very hot, but should be okay for up to mild overclocks.

What you need are slow fans. All 1200 RPM fans will be "too loud" regardless of their dBa rating. Get a slow 120mm fan, such as 600-800 RPM, if you want silence. Don't worry, you don't lose much cooling ability.


What are good north/southbridge coolers? Mine are running pretty hot.
Thermalright HR-05 or Noctua NC-U6

However, it's much better to just put small fans on your stock heatsinks. I have a tiny fan on my northbridge and it cools it extremely well.

[Buffalobiian]

All 1200 RPM fans will be "too loud" regardless of their dBa rating.

Why's that? Even if I'm undervolting it to run at ~900rpm?

[Board of Command]

900 will be fine. I meant that if you let any 1200 RPM fan spin at 1200 RPM, it will be audible.

[6Zabuza9]

Hi, almighty computer gurus. A friend of a friend of mine recently offered to build me a new "TOP OF THE LINE" computer. Of course since I know absolutely nothing about computers and would like some help with you guys to find out if the price is worth for the computer. I asked my friend for the specs but he only remembered the basics. I will get the full specs when the guy is available. Currently it is

Quad Core Processor
GeForce 9800 GTX
4GB Memory
600GB Harddrive

around $800 canadian dollars + tax

[Buffalobiian]

You'll really have to see. Quad core is just too broad, it can mean anything from a Quad Extreme to iCore to Phenom II. Judging from your price range, I don't think it'll be the latest gen Quads.

9800GTX....do you game. and what screen resolution are you looking at? The 9800GTX is a good mid-level card, but I won't call it "top of the line". Depending on your gaming resolution/quality, the 512MB DDR3 vRAM won't cut it for the highest resolutions out there.


Ram....speed? DDR2 or 3?

Hard drive....make and specs...7200rpm vs 10k rpm...cache size...

Short answer: Need more specs. Bump when you get them ;)

[darkshadow]

Well I think it depends more on his definition of "top of the line"
My system is
3.0ghz core 2 quad
hd 4870 512mb gddr5
4gb 667ddr2
2 7200rpm hdd's
1 10krpm hdd

And I consider it "high end", "top of the line" would be more like:
intel Core i7 920 ( just clock it to 3ghz)
hd 4870x2 2gb gddr5 crossfire
8gb 1600ddr3
hdd... well whatever

So yeah, it depends on what you want to be able to do with your next system.

[Board of Command]

I just had this conversation with one of my roommates a few minutes ago. For $800, a good value system would be:

Core 2 Duo E8400
Mid-range P45 motherboard
4 GB DDR2-800
Radeon 4870 1 GB or GTX 260 216
Western Digital WD6400AAKS

Rest of budget goes to case, power supply and whatever else.

[Buffalobiian]

I just had this conversation with one of my roommates a few minutes ago. For $800, a good value system would be:

Core 2 Duo E8400
Mid-range P45 motherboard
4 GB DDR2-800
Radeon 4870 1 GB or GTX 260 216
Western Digital WD6400AAKS

Rest of budget goes to case, power supply and whatever else.

That's something I'd prefer over Zabuza's system. For general/casual gamer use, it's got too much emphasis on processing power and not enough on graphics, like many Dell/HP premade systems out there - but at a better price.

[Board of Command]

A viable alternative would be Phenom II X3 720 with a decent 790GX/FX motherboard. This should cost roughly the same as the Intel solution, but you trade clock speed for an extra core.

[6Zabuza9]

Im sry guys, some of the specs i gave out was wrong. The comp is more like this.

Intel Core 2 Duo 2.86Ghz
4Gb DDR II 800MHz
22X DVD±RW
EVGA GeForce 9800GTX 512MB
640GB Harddrive SATA II 7,200 RPM
7.1 Channel Soundcard
10/100/1000Mbps LAN
2.1 Speakers/Mouse/Keyboard Included

$888 canadian total. and also i dont know the exact motherboard as my frd says its some asus motherboard good that will be good lol.

[Buffalobiian]

Hey Zabuza, can we clarify a few things first:

a) What will you be using the computer for?
b) Is it customisable, or is this the only package he'll be offering you and you're simply asking if it's a good deal?

[6Zabuza9]

well, i'll be mainly using my pc for games lol. my computer is quite old and i've been looking for a new one. i'm mainly asking if its for a good deal and also it is customizable but i know basically nothing about computers and my frd merely said its top of the line for a good price. also i'm hoping the computer would last and would be able to play new games coming out in the future for a couple of years without upgrading much :). also i use the computer to watch anime as well lol

[darkshadow]

BoC's system is a far better choice then the one you just listed then.

[Buffalobiian]

BoC's system is a far better choice then the one you just listed then.

+1

See if you can get a quote on that:

Core 2 Duo E8400
Mid-range P45 motherboard
22X DVD±RW
4 GB DDR2-800
Radeon 4870 1 GB or GTX 260 216
Western Digital WD6400AAKS
2.1 Speakers/Mouse/Keyboard Included

Relisted for convenience. Do you know what case you're getting? It's not that important if you're looking into making it exceptionally quiet or overclocking, but you might as well get a look at it to see if it suits your tastes.

Power supply....they'll fix one up for you, lest you have specific requirements.

[6Zabuza9]

ALright thanks guys. I'll just copy and paste BoC's specs and see if the guy can make one for me :). Also, should I go for Vista or Xp for OS? BoC's spec should be worth around how much canadian dollars?

[Buffalobiian]

ALright thanks guys. I'll just copy and paste BoC's specs and see if the guy can make one for me :). Also, should I go for Vista or Xp for OS? BoC's spec should be worth around how much canadian dollars?


I just had this conversation with one of my roommates a few minutes ago. For $800, a good value system would be:

No idea if that's CAD or USD though.

Is the OS free? :rolleyes:

I would get XP (should be cheaper too) or wait for Windows 7 (Out in April 2009 according to Wiki, but I'd expect delays). If you want it immediately, get XP then dual-boot Windows 7 when it comes out.

[darkshadow]

Yeah just get XP (32bit), and wait for W7 (64bit) when it get released, just pretend vista doesn't exist.

[Board of Command]

ALright thanks guys. I'll just copy and paste BoC's specs and see if the guy can make one for me :). Also, should I go for Vista or Xp for OS? BoC's spec should be worth around how much canadian dollars?
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186150
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131120
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182150
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129032

Total: $861.94 without a case/keyboard/mouse/speakers

This is just all from Newegg. You can split it up and find cheaper parts elsewhere.

[Buffalobiian]

Well I think it depends more on his definition of "top of the line"
My system is
3.0ghz core 2 quad
hd 4870 512mb gddr5
4gb 667ddr2
2 7200rpm hdd's
1 10krpm hdd

And I consider it "high end", "top of the line" would be more like:
intel Core i7 920 ( just clock it to 3ghz)
hd 4870x2 2gb gddr5 crossfire
8gb 1600ddr3
hdd... well whatever

So yeah, it depends on what you want to be able to do with your next system.

On that note, how would you guys rate this (my) system? I'm expecting it to last at least a few more years before I get a new one.

Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz
3gb DDR2 667
9800GTX+ 512MB DDR3
1 7200rpm HDD

I personally think that's a fairly mid/high end rig. Probably aroud 7.5-8 on a scale of 10. Of course, that depends on what a 0.0 machine is.

[6Zabuza9]

Hi, guys i recently went to the guy with the specs BoC suggested and the guy simply said the only differences was basically the mother board, graphics card, and processor. This was the specs he gave me:

Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 @ 2.80GHz
3.00GB RAM DDR2 800
EVGA Nvidia GeForce 9800 GTX+
Asus P5QL FSB O.C. 1600
WD 640GB SATA-2 16M
ATX CASE 1290B 500W PS
7.1 Soundcard
2.1 Logitech Speakers/Logitech Mouse/Logitech Keyboard included
for 888$ after tax

He said his motherboard would be slightly better than the one BoC mentioned and also to upgrade the graphics card to GTX 260 216 (they don't have ATI cards) would take 120$ and he said he would upgrade the processor to Dual Core 3.2Ghz for 59$. Also, he said something that u don't need 4 gb of ram because xp cant handle or read it or something like that and 4 GB would be more money but i dont need it. Then the total in the end would be something around 1090$ + another 12$ for environmental fee after tax and it would include the casing (seems like a cheap stock black case to me) and would include an unlicensed version (which i think means fake) of windows xp made for me when i pick it up. So... do you guys think what this guy says is pretty legit and giving me a good deal?

[Board of Command]

Get the stuff I suggested, or something close to those.

Phenom II 720 is a better CPU than E7400 for the same price as you get an extra core and similar overclocking capabilities. If you're going to get a cheap CPU and overclock, then get the E5200. Otherwise, get the Phenom II 720 or E8400. I got a brand new E8400 on eBay for $125 shipped, and I have it clocked to 4.1 GHz.

The Asus P5QL is a low-end motherboard based on the vanilla Asus P5Q. It is NOT better than the Asus P5Q Pro or Foxconn 790GX. It only costs $10-15 to get one of the better ones, so there's no reason not to. Even the Gigabyte EP45C-UD3R only costs a little bit more and is a much better motherboard just by looking at the circuit layout.

3 GB memory = single channel, 4 GB = dual channel. You need a 64-bit OS to make use of 4 GB, so just run Vista 64-bit.

Even the Radeon 4870 512MB is better than the 9800 GTX+, and you can find them in the $210 range. The 1GB variant should be available in the $250 range. If "they" don't have ATI cards, then just buy one yourself.

BTW, whereabouts in Canada are you located?

[6Zabuza9]

I live in richmond, bc. Also i forgot to mention that its only a 500 W power supply. After discussing with you guys, I think i might decide to just buy parts you guys listed and try to assemble the computer myself to save some money lol. Would it be too hard? or is it just like building lego where pieces are easy to assemble.

[Kraco]

Might not be as easy as assembling lego, but there's certainly no magic there. Just take care not to fry any components with static electricity, don't apply unnecessary levels of force, and you are all set. Unlike lego that stick to each other in myriad ways, most components in a computer can't be assembled in wrong ways, and the few that can (like wires from the mobo to the case leds/buttons) don't really cause huge problems if you get them wrong the first time through. I'm sure there are also some tutorials out there if you feel like reading something before doing it.

Above all, remember that thousands of people do it succesfully every day.

[poopdeville]

I have two computers worth mentioning:

2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo iMac with 4 GB ram
2.5 GHz e5200 Wolfdale Pentium Dual Core with 4 GB ram (with Sapphire Radeon 3650)

The Wolfdale is a Linux workserver. I connect to it remotely, so the graphics are moot. I might go with a dual monitor set up some day though.

I regularly use 3.5 GB of ram on each machine.

[darkshadow]

On that note, how would you guys rate this (my) system? I'm expecting it to last at least a few more years before I get a new one.

Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz
3gb DDR2 667
9800GTX+ 512MB DDR3
1 7200rpm HDD

I personally think that's a fairly mid/high end rig. Probably aroud 7.5-8 on a scale of 10. Of course, that depends on what a 0.0 machine is.

Yeah I think thats fairly mid-high, it should be able to last as long as current gen of consoles.

[Board of Command]

I live in richmond, bc. Also i forgot to mention that its only a 500 W power supply. After discussing with you guys, I think i might decide to just buy parts you guys listed and try to assemble the computer myself to save some money lol. Would it be too hard? or is it just like building lego where pieces are easy to assemble.
If you live in Richmond, then you can just go grab the stuff from NCIX.

Building computers is easy. The hard part is debugging when things don't work as you'd expect. This is where you actually need to know your stuff.

[Buffalobiian]

The part that freaked me out when I put my first computer together was closing the latch on the CPU. After putting in the chip, I pissed myself because the latch cover wasn't flat, but bent upwards, as if the CPU was stopping it from lying flat. I thought the force I was applying to bend it flat would damage the pins.

Only after I took the cpu out and tried doing up the latch did I realise the cover is bent anyway - with or without the chip.

Everything else was easy.

[Board of Command]

The part that freaked me out when I put my first computer together was closing the latch on the CPU. After putting in the chip, I pissed myself because the latch cover wasn't flat, but bent upwards, as if the CPU was stopping it from lying flat. I thought the force I was applying to bend it flat would damage the pins.

Only after I took the cpu out and tried doing up the latch did I realise the cover is bent anyway - with or without the chip.

Everything else was easy.
I remember my first time mounting a socket 775 processor as well. It feels like you're breaking the CPU socket.

[Buffalobiian]

Have any of you guys ever used a 12v to 7v fan reducer?
Like this:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_411&products_id=885

Basically, the difference between this and standard 12v adpters is that 12v adapters draws current fron the +12v molex lead and feeds it to GROUND (12v difference). The reducer wires up to the 12v lead too, but connects to the 5v rail instead of GROUND, producing a 7v difference. (This can be seen as the black wire from the 3-pin adapter joins up with the red 5v lead on the molex)

Essentially, this is the same as the "7 volt trick" detailed by SilentPCReview here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article6-page1.html

They, however, warn that when you're feeding current back into the 5volt lead, you have to make sure there's a component in there that draws even more current than what you're feeding in from the 12v lead so the net current is never flowing back into the PSU.

There's no such warning on these commercial "adapters" though, so I'm wondering:

1) Are the two methods (7 volt "trick" as per first article and the 12V to 7V reducer as per second link) the same thing?

2) If so, is there any worries about current feeding back into my PSU if THERE ARE NO COMPONENTS UTILIZING THE +5V RAIL. <- for argument's sake, let's assume that's true for this question.

3) If the answer is YES for (2), do I have to make sure that there are components that consume sufficient current on (i) the entire +5v rail or (ii) the molex cable which the fan adapters are attached to.

Note: I'm considering wiring up 3 Nexus fans in said method. The fans are rated at 0.3A max each, through testing shows them to use 0.62W @ 7v, meaning roughly 88.6mA.

-------------------------------------------
This probably isn't the best place to ask, but Corsair wasn't very helpful in the matter neither.


I have never heard of this causing any problems with the PSU, however this is not something that we have tested, nor is it anything that I have personally tried so I really couldn't guarantee anything. There is always going to be some sort of load on the 5v rail as long as you have the PSU connected to a motherboard.

You are welcome to try anything you like but this type of custom wireing is not supported or suggested I would suggest using a Fan controller module as that would be safer for the system.

Honestly, they of all people should know.

[6Zabuza9]

If you live in Richmond, then you can just go grab the stuff from NCIX.

ya i know. but after comparing the prices u linked in newegg compared to the ones on ncix. most of the exact product from ncix is like 2-20$ more expensive.

[digitalrurouni]

I remember my first time mounting a socket 775 processor as well. It feels like you're breaking the CPU socket.

Hehe yeah. I remember that too. So was mounting the Thermalright 120 cooler on my motherboard with the x shaped plate on the bottom of the motherboard...those spring screws (dont know the technical term) were a bitch and a half to install. I was using a screw driver and it slipped and I nearly ended up punching a whole through my motherboard!:eek:

[Buffalobiian]

I replaced two Antec Tri-Cool fans in my P182 case today with 2 120mm Nexus fans running at 7v. The quietness is outstanding! I guess I'll hear the real results when I leave it on tonight as I sleep. Good as it is, the lack of a reassuring hum will take some getting used to.

I wonder what it'll sound like when my Thermalright HR-01 PLUS arrives...probably not much, since I'm pretty sure C2D fans are fairly quiet at 800rpm anyway.

[Board of Command]

I run all the fans on my always-on system at 5V and it's near silent. I don't hear it at all when I sleep. My main system, on the other hand...that's a different story.

[Buffalobiian]

What fans are they? I might do that if I ever build such a system in the future. Nexus fans only start reliably at 6.5V, so I used 7 (fairly good balance between noise and cooling, since my NB/system temp is idling at around 50C anyway).

[Board of Command]

Rear one is a Yate Loon D12SL-12, front one is a Cooler Master TLF-S12. The CPU heatsink is a Thermaltake V1 with the fan running at absolute minimum speed, which is obtained with around 3V (5V fed into the built-in rheostat).

Every 120x120x25 fan I've ever tried has been able to start at 5V or less.

[Animeniax]

I like the white noise of the hum of my PC fans. It drowns out the crickets, neighbors, and gunfire.

I'm going to try for a silent PC next, thanks for the info on the quiet fans.

[Buffalobiian]

Apparently Nexus ones are are also made by YateLoon. They're rated at 6.5v, and some people have samples had had some trouble starting at 5v, but I guess it's individually based. If you've got a fan that starts at 5v no problem, then it should always start at 5v. If another fan from the same batch happened to not quite start, then that problem should always happen to it every time. That's what I think should theoretically happen anyway.

[Board of Command]

Apparently Nexus ones are are also made by YateLoon. They're rated at 6.5v, and some people have samples had had some trouble starting at 5v, but I guess it's individually based. If you've got a fan that starts at 5v no problem, then it should always start at 5v. If another fan from the same batch happened to not quite start, then that problem should always happen to it every time. That's what I think should theoretically happen anyway.
D12SL-12 definitely starts at 5V. I'm not sure about D12BL-12.

I think some Nexus fans (orange ones) used to be rebranded D12SL-12, but they've switched it up over time.

[Buffalobiian]

Talking about fans, have any of you encountered noise problems with mounting fans horizontally? When my P182 still had the TriCools, the top blowing fan was making a ticking noise while the other vertical exhaust wasn't. I thought it was just a fan problem, but when I changed to Nexus in the same mounting position, the top fan was clicking again. It seemed to get louder and louder compared to a few days ago when I got it, so I took it out and placed it in the front.
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/364/p182k.jpg

(Moved from position 1 to 2. Note: NOT my computer setup.)

The clicking noise is now gone. If the fan was working without that clicking sound, then theoretically noise should go up with the new setup since the fan is closer to my ear. However, since it WASN'T as quiet being horizontal, this current position sounds better.

Again, generally speaking, cooling should be better like this too, since a push-pull system is more effective than a double-pull one. I have a feeling it's not so in my comp though. the 9800GTX+ is a long graphics card, much longer than the one in the pic, so some of the air that my front fan is pushing will go underneath and some will go on top, across the CPU and out the back.

A double-pull like I had before would have forced air over the top as it pulled.

So does anybody else have any issues with horizontal mounting? I think it depends on the bearing type as well, since sleeves suffer more wear and tear or something mounted cross-ways due to loss of lubrication.

[Board of Command]

Sleeve bearing is more suitable for vertical mounting.
Ball bearing is more suitable for horizontal mounting.

I think a majority of 120mm fans are sleeve bearing, so you get that issue.

[Buffalobiian]

Yeah, these guys are sleeves, and cooling did suffer. After idling a while, the CPU fan cranks up to 1500rpm. Guess I really do need that HR-01 PLUS that's arriving in a few weeks after all.

[Board of Command]

What's your CPU? HR-01 Plus should be able to work with minimal airflow. Even the Ultra-120 Extreme with its tightly packed fins works fine with very little airflow. Run whatever fan you have at 5V and enjoy the silence.

[Buffalobiian]

C2D E6600 @ 2.4GHz.

I was hoping to run it passively, but depending on how well it runs, I may strap on another undervolted 120mm fan like you said.

The best thing to do would have been to attach a fan duct between the exhaust fan and the heatsink, perfectly balancing cooling with noise.

Too bad, it's like impossible to find a fan duct here. If I thought of this earlier I would have asked someone from overseas to get me this since they just came over recently from Hong Kong (not entirely sure, but they should have a higher chance of stocking it).

(edit: fan worked its way down to 1300rpm now).

[Board of Command]

E6600 @ stock only has a 65W TDP. You can definitely run it passive. My voltmodded Radeon 4850 puts out more way than 65W and I'm running that passively.

The HR-01's fin design is very suitable for passive cooling. It's like Scythe Ninja.

[David75]

Back to the SSDs:
I just received a quotation for IDE/PATA drives in MLC and SLC, why that old standard? well because I need to upgrade some laptops and desktops that do not have SATA... and I think I'm not the only one with that need.

Regarding the evolution for SSDs:
X25-E and M have seen prices drops, both received new firmwares to take care of some bugs.

OCZ has been working hard in bettering their Vertex drives that seem to be the hot thing, but only if you're ready to spend lots of money in an almost beta drive...

Another field of development is PCI-E SSD drives. Here we talk 5 to 10 years before having something for the end user. In fact it depends on how SATA evolves to cope with SSD bandwidth progress.

I'm still waiting for the end of the year, I guess things will be a lot clearer by then.

Also OCZ should launch a SLC version of their Vertexes, SLC being trouble free and the Indilinx cached controller being quite good, it might be a good drive, although pricey because of the SLC precisely...

[Buffalobiian]

Do SSDs nowadays write slower or faster than your 7200rpm in general?

I was actually confused whether it was "SSDs are slow are writing and fast at reading", or "SSDs are slower at writing than reading (but still faster than our spinning heads and platters.)

[Buffalobiian]

E6600 @ stock only has a 65W TDP. You can definitely run it passive. My voltmodded Radeon 4850 puts out more way than 65W and I'm running that passively.

The HR-01's fin design is very suitable for passive cooling. It's like Scythe Ninja.

Well that's strange. I installed it today. The current setup is passive HR-01+ passive, 7v Nexus 120mm intake & 7v Nexus 120mm exhaust. If I run both cores to 100%, the temp maxes out at 70C. I haven't checked if the safety downclocking kicked in at that temp, but it's autumn/fall here right now. So those temps are WAY too hot.


You mentioned that you should be wary about putting too much thermal paste on. I wonder if I did that. Thermalright's 200x200 pixel picture isn't exactly a bit help neither.

----------------------
Stuck the 7v fan on the HS directly instead after reseating it with what I'd call a thin layer of paste. Now I max @ 54C. Don't know how you do it BoC.

[Konohamaru!]

SSD's read faster, however the write speed isn't really any improvement over past technologies, and ofcourse you only have a finite amount of writes with them.

As for thermal paste, if a bunch squeezed out to the sides when mounting your heatsink/fan you might have put too much on... as a general rule when I'm applying thermal paste, I generally squirt very small amounts as dots spread accross the surface of the chip using only enough that it will spread out to cover the majority of the chip face while keeping the layer of paste very thin. All paste is for is to facilitate the transfer of heat to the heatsink. It does dry up and go bad after a while as well, however the thinner the layer, the better it will work as time goes on and it drys out...

[Buffalobiian]

Yeah, nothing is oozing out of the sides. I remember BoC saying that with the latest Intel chips that come with a heatspreader, you can even get away with NO thermal paste. At ~22C, it idled at 34C, and peaked at 54C with a 7v fan. According to the review sites I've looked at, it should peak at something like 38C at those temperatures.

And that's for a CPU with 135TDP, while mine's supposed to be a mere 65. Somehow, I think I've been doing it wrong.

How should the cleaning go? I'm pretty sure it's cleaned pretty well. The highest strength rubbing alcohol I can find around here is 64%.

[Board of Command]

You can get away with no thermal paste on both Intel's and AMD's chips that have heatspreaders. However, I certainly don't recommend that you do this. I just said that to illustrate the small impact that thermal paste makes. For everyday usage, definitely use some thermal paste just to be safe. The point I was trying to make was that how much you use, and how you apply it is somewhat irrelevant as long as you have an appropriate amount of thermal paste.

As for your temperatures, how are you measuring them?
Also, don't trust reviews that have CPUs topping out at 38 degrees. I call BS on that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As an aside, I got my Radeon 4890 yesterday. I took a black heatsink cover and customized it a bit. I haven't installed it in my main system yet though, but it does work as I tested it on another system earlier.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1661/radeon4890.th.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radeon4890.jpg)

[Buffalobiian]

I'm using CoreTemp 0.99.4. I'll probably give Intel's RealTemp a go too, since that's supposed to be pretty good/accurate.

[poopdeville]

Yeah, nothing is oozing out of the sides. I remember BoC saying that with the latest Intel chips that come with a heatspreader, you can even get away with NO thermal paste. At ~22C, it idled at 34C, and peaked at 54C with a 7v fan. According to the review sites I've looked at, it should peak at something like 38C at those temperatures.


To apply thermal paste, put an amount about the size of a small grain of rice on the die. Use a credit card (or even a razor blade) to squish it onto the die, in every direction from the small blob. Basically, you're trying to level the die's surface, while using as little paste as possible. Most of the paste should end up on your scraper. It's hard to explain what it should look like, so I'll post links to a macroscopic analog.

http://individualfurniture.com/maker/2Flatten1.jpg

That's a blue dye meant for finding spots that aren't flat. Hand planes need to be that flat if you want to do this:

http://individualfurniture.com/maker/c5.jpg

[Buffalobiian]

I just used the blob n squish method. (rice grain).

I also tried the spreading method and finger-rubbing method. They're all about the same.

[Konohamaru!]

don't use your fingers... finger oils don't react well with metal, heat, and electricity...

[Buffalobiian]

don't use your fingers... finger oils don't react well with metal, heat, and electricity...
I mean fingers-in-plastic-bag-spreading.

[Board of Command]

I live by the blob and squish. After mounting hundreds of heatsinks in the past few years on all sorts of CPUs and GPUs, that is my tried and true method for applying thermal paste; not because it's the best way, but because it's the easiest way without any noticeable performance drop off.

As far as temperature monitoring goes, it could be that your CPU's sensor is wrong. Touch the heatsink after loading it to 100%. If it's too hot to keep your fingers on for over 5 seconds, then it really is too hot. If it's 70 degrees, then you won't be able to keep your finger on there for more than 2 seconds. 54 degrees is already quite hot to the touch.

[Buffalobiian]

As far as temperature monitoring goes, it could be that your CPU's sensor is wrong. Touch the heatsink after loading it to 100%. If it's too hot to keep your fingers on for over 5 seconds, then it really is too hot. If it's 70 degrees, then you won't be able to keep your finger on there for more than 2 seconds. 54 degrees is already quite hot to the touch.

I'll give that a go actually. Will post later when I get around to it.

[Buffalobiian]

Leaving that issue aside for the meanwhile, so I've got another question.

I'm trying to underclock my 9800GTX+ so it runs cooler (and requiring lower fan speeds) during idle, and bumping it back up to stock automatically using RivaTune.

Underclocking's not as well documented (or at least, popular) as overclocking, so I couldn't find any real "limits" to it, though I do think there are. Any experiences you guys?

------------------------------
Clocks (core,shader,memory) are all running at 50% and stable. Temperature-wise, the impact wasn't all that great. Perhaps 2-3C lower? I'll see where it maxes out at noon since ambient at night dropped too much to see the impact accurately. Powersaving would probably be more significant though, so I'm happy to leave it downclocked despite the little thermal difference.

[Board of Command]

You're not going to see much benefits to GPU underclocking because I don't think you can adjust idle voltage. Voltage is the killer, not clocks.

[Buffalobiian]

As far as temperature monitoring goes, it could be that your CPU's sensor is wrong. Touch the heatsink after loading it to 100%. If it's too hot to keep your fingers on for over 5 seconds, then it really is too hot. If it's 70 degrees, then you won't be able to keep your finger on there for more than 2 seconds. 54 degrees is already quite hot to the touch

Well, according to CoreTemp, I've burned the cores to 70/69C right now, and the MB sensor is reading the CPU at 68C (Gigabyte P965-S3).

Putting my hand over the "back" of the heatsink (I've placed a skewer through the fan on the front), I can feel that it's very warm/hot. My fingertips that are touching the bottom fins feel a fierce and sharp heat, though I can still leave my fingers on there. It's not unbearable.

The same can be said about the tips of the heatpipes on top, though it takes a little longer for my fingers to feel the "sharpness".

Unfortunately, I can't access the very contact base of the HS to see how hot it REALLY is.



My northbridge, however, is a different story. It's painful to touch after ~2 seconds.

The only thing I can find "wrong" with anything I did when mounthing it is that the default Intel paste was pretty hard to clean off. I can't really tell if it's all off the CPU, since it seems to give a brushed, slightly grey aluminium finish anyway.

The Stock Intel HS still doesn't look completely clean though. I can still make out smudges, and I've rubbed it like crazy. I can probably say the same for the CPU (rubbed it like crazy part, though not as hard I guess).

[Board of Command]

Don't worry about the paste or whatnot. If the heatsink is that hot, then you're getting proper heat transfer.

Try lowering the CPU voltage. I think 1.25 is doable for a stock E6600. Regardless, if it gets that hot, then maybe you shouldn't run it passive.

[Buffalobiian]

Don't worry about the paste or whatnot. If the heatsink is that hot, then you're getting proper heat transfer.

Try lowering the CPU voltage. I think 1.25 is doable for a stock E6600. Regardless, if it gets that hot, then maybe you shouldn't run it passive.

Yeah, I've got it running with a fan now. System's fairly warm right now, but well within safe specs.

Ambient: 23C (Autumn/fall - 12:36PM)
CPU: Idle E6600 (1.6GHz, 1.125v with C1E, EIST etc) - 40C (with 7v fan)
GPU: Idle ASUS 9800GTX+ (50% downclocked, 35% fan) - 70C
HDD: 41C @ idle.

The CPU actually cools down to 30C, and the GPU to 50C when I take off the side panel with the above configuration. Guess the P182 suffers from low airflow.

At least when there's only a single 7v exhaust fan and nothing else. :p

Adding another undervolted intake fan probably decreases temps by ~2-3 degrees. The acoustic noise will probably go unnoticed during the day, but it'll be audible at night, even if it's just audible.

[itadakimasu]

zalman has thermal paste that comes in a little glass container w\ a brush for easy application.

not custom... but i just bought a dell studio 540 because it was around $350 w\ a q8200, 6gb dd4-6400, 750gb, hd 3450 (weak video card) and it's dual booting vista x64 and xp x64... it's my new work computer.

[Animeniax]

I've been out of the PC building thing for a while. I need to get a new motherboard, main requirement is that it support the Q6600 I already own, and a future Core 2 Quad CPU that I will upgrade to in the future.

I'm looking at the Asus P5Q Pro, but I also see the P5Q Pro Turbo. The difference seems to be that the Turbo supports ATI Crossfire and more memory speeds and costs $15 more, while the Pro only supports DDR2 1200 and no Crossfire.

Is it worth it to get the Turbo if I never plan to use Crossfire, just for the increased memory support? Or are there any other suggestions for a middle-of-the-road motherboard?

[Board of Command]

Regular P5Q Pro supports Crossfire. It's built into the P45 northbridge, and as long as the board has two physical 16x PCIe slots, it works with Crossfire.

Plus, I've had the benefit of working with P5Q Pro boards, so I definitely know that it supports Crossfire.

[Animeniax]

Crossfire is the least of my worries. Are there even any games out that you'd need dual videocards for these days?

I ordered the P5Q Pro Turbo from Newegg since it's only $15 more but there's a $15 rebate. That way I can still use my DDR2 800 RAM and not have to buy new stuff. Maybe once I switch to Vista 64 I'll get the higher capacity and higher speed RAM.

[Animeniax]

As posted in the bitching thread, when I removed my Tuniq Tower from my old motherboard, I forgot to get the metal X backing plate that the HSF screws down into. Now I have a $60 HSF that I can't mount on my new motherboard, and I also don't have the stock cooler for my Q6600 CPU.

Any ideas on how to get a replacement bracket? The Tuniq/Sunbeam website is useless.

[mage]

best way to get a replacement bracket would be to contact the manufacturer's customer assistance line. i've never been able to find only brackets for sale unless its a bracket for a previous socket generation.

[Buffalobiian]

I'll second that. I couldn't see any spare mounting brackets up for grabs at any of the places I frequent. Nothing on ebay neither, which means chances of finding it elsewhere is virtually nill.

[darkshadow]

BOC when is the 5 series radeon coming out? I've been wanting to upgrade my 4870 but it doesn't seem worth it to go to a 4870x2.

[Board of Command]

I don't know. I don't work there anymore.

However, from what I do know, September-October seems like a likely time frame. They only got the first batch of chips right when I left (end of April).

[darkshadow]

I see, well what do you think they will be performance wise? A single "5870" just as fast as a 4850x2 at least?
I mean its bound to be at least 230 euro when it launches, and the 4850x2 is 170 now here.

[Board of Command]

The specs indicate that it will be one heck of a card, but I can't really say anything about real performance.

[darkshadow]

Nice, well that's all I need to know, guess I'll just wait on them instead of getting an 4870x2.

[Animeniax]

Anyone here using the Tuniq Tower on an AMD system and you don't need the Intel C2D bracket, if you want to sell the bracket, please contact me.

In good news, the Tuniq Tower HSF has a hefty rebate at Newegg.com. The product costs $55 with free shipping, and has a $25 mail-in rebate. I don't like rebates, but I'll probably end up getting this if no one can help with the spare bracket.

[itadakimasu]

Ani, are you in the states right now?

I have an extra stock 775 cooler lying around if you want it.

[Animeniax]

Ani, are you in the states right now?

I have an extra stock 775 cooler lying around if you want it.
Yes I am back in Houston for the summer. You're in Dallas right? I was planning to overclock the Q6600 so it might be worthwhile to go ahead and get the Tuniq with the rebate. But I am trying to be more frugal so paying for your stock cooler would be cheaper than buying the new Tuniq.

[itadakimasu]

if you pm me your address I'll send you the cooler. I thought it was unused but maybe I used it for testing or something.

[Animeniax]

if you pm me your address I'll send you the cooler. I thought it was unused but maybe I used it for testing or something.
Thanks man, but I ordered the Tuniq Tower and it should arrive today. If anyone is in need of a Tuniq Tower for any CPU besides Intel C2D or C2Q, I'll let you have it for cheap.

[itadakimasu]

I got a 4670(1gb ATI Radeon $55) to replace the super hot x1950xt in my wifes computer and I was expecting temps to be alot lower, but they're mid 50's.
Before I upgraded gpu z, it was saying gpu = 350c.

I was thinking temps would be lower because it doesn't require additional power : ( I haven't tried running anything on it yet.. Might try some counterstrike and see how it runs.

What do you guys think about the Antec Skeleton? I'm almost tempted to get one. It could be alot better than my gigantic 3d aurora that I have my micro atx board in.

[Board of Command]

4670 doesn't use much power at all. You need to realize that just because one card uses less power than another doesn't mean it has to have lower temperatures. Power is related to how much heat it generates, while temperature is determined mainly by how well it's cooled. The X1950XT has a much larger cooling solution. A card that uses 10W of power can run at 120 degrees if you don't cool the chip at all, while a card that uses 300W can run at -150 degrees if you put it under liquid nitrogen.

[darkshadow]

BOC, one more question. Do you think the "5870" would be pairable with a 4870? Kinda like how the 3870 is pairable with it.

[Board of Command]

I doubt it. The driver will need to support that, and I'm really not sure if it can.

[digitalrurouni]

Crossfire is the least of my worries. Are there even any games out that you'd need dual videocards for these days?

I ordered the P5Q Pro Turbo from Newegg since it's only $15 more but there's a $15 rebate. That way I can still use my DDR2 800 RAM and not have to buy new stuff. Maybe once I switch to Vista 64 I'll get the higher capacity and higher speed RAM.

I think you need them if you are running say 2560 x 1600 resolution. Then in some games where there are Physx and some other stuff that is running which can really eat up fps you may need it. Also if you run with max AF and AA at that resolution, believe me you need all the horsepower you can get!

[Board of Command]

Well yes, if you're looking to max out every game while still running superbly high frame rates, then you'd obviously need all the horsepower you can get. However, in terms of simply playing games, a single high-end card is sufficient for everything.

[itadakimasu]

I'm building a new system.... I'm getting a pretty good deal on both of these cases but am only going to use one and might move my current system into the other or just hold onto it for my next build.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103010
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811215009&Tpk=monolith

I haven't decided which way I'm going yet for Mobo/CPU/RAM.

Microcenter has the i7 920 for $199, but I'm undecided yet. I'm getting a 300gb velociraptor for $122 thanks to ebay bucks and cashback from bing.com ^^ ( if you haven't heard about this you need to sign up.... 8% cash back from ebay auctions )

I think I'm going w\ a 4870 1gb for the video card, possibly 2 depending on what I end up doing for a motherboard.

Should I get 2x 1gb 4670's :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161273

Or a single 4870-4890 (1gb) ?

[itadakimasu]

OK. The new build is coming along... hopefully will have everything together by next week.

i7 920
motherboard - Asus P6T Deluxe v2 (didn't realise it was the one without SAS... but I dont have SAS drives so no biggie.) $285 / ebay w\ $28 cashback savings ^^
Ram -TBA (12gb) can't decide on ram still, maybe frys has a sale this week?
sapphire hd4870 Vapor-x 2GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102826
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103010 - Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817226001 - Power
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136322 - HDD
Also have a 23'' Dell widescreen on the way.

[Buffalobiian]

12GB.....man, I'm still considering whether or not I want to get the 64bit Windows 7 or 32bit.

2GB's already plenty for me. The only real problem is when I upgrade to graphics cards with even more VRAM that there'll be even less system RAM to address.

If you're going for a 4870 2GB, is a 4870 X2 2GB not worth it? I would imagine it to make better use of the full 2GB VRAM.

[itadakimasu]

I saw the 12gb kits and was intrigued : )

I already have a 585w power supply and if I get the 4870 x2 i think it would take too much power.

Still trying to decide on a motherboard. I like gigabyte so I may stick w\ them.

[KrayZ33]

I want to buy a new PC and thought this one is pretty good (gaming PC)

Antec Three Hundred Midi Tower
Enermax PRO82+ 625w
AMD Phenom II X4 955 (3,2gh)
Cooler: Scythe Mugen 2
RAM: G.Skill 4gb (2 modules) (upgradeable to 16gb)
Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285 1024mb
Mainboard: GigaByte GA-MA770-UD3
Harddrive: 640gb HD642JJ, 640 GB, SATA, 7200 rpm
dvd-burner and drive
Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit (OEM)

I think this one will cost around 1000 euro
what do you guys think?

[David75]

I want to buy a new PC and thought this one is pretty good (gaming PC)

Antec Three Hundred Midi Tower
Enermax PRO82+ 625w
AMD Phenom II X4 955 (3,2gh)
Cooler: Scythe Mugen 2
RAM: G.Skill 4gb (2 modules) (upgradeable to 16gb)
Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285 1024mb
Mainboard: GigaByte GA-MA770-UD3
Harddrive: 640gb HD642JJ, 640 GB, SATA, 7200 rpm
dvd-burner and drive
Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit (OEM)

I think this one will cost around 1000 euro
what do you guys think?

For some reason, I think buying hardware in summer break is a bad idea.
Maybe because my 1TB drive lost 1/3 of it's price beetween july and september of the year I bought it, and I didn't even use it that much in those 2 months...
I do not mean to postpone all the time, just be careful with summer.
Also, Postville Intel SSDs are out, they'll be available in quantity by september, and in your comp, I'd really see a 80GB X25M postville probably under 200€ by september.
It won't really change your gaming experience (although it might for level transfers from drive to ram) but will really make your comp snapier in all other uses.
So i'd put the system and the 2 most important games there(SSD), the rest on the harddrive.

[KrayZ33]

I doubt I'll need that, especially if it's cost 200€ ^^

[itadakimasu]

faster read / write times, cooler temperatures.

Is the euro still @ 2x1 USD ?

[KrayZ33]

1usd = 0,7€

edit:I googled it.

btw isn't it possible to add that new drive later?

[Board of Command]

If you're going for a 4870 2GB, is a 4870 X2 2GB not worth it? I would imagine it to make better use of the full 2GB VRAM.
4870 X2 is actually 1GB per GPU duplicated among two sets of memory.

Still, 4870 2GB is not worth it.

[itadakimasu]

I was thinking of crossfire but didn't want to buy another PSU to handle 2 cards.

I just went to frys a while ago and found a great case... too bad I already have 2.

Zalman gs1000 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811235017&Tpk=zalman%20gs1000

it has 2 bays on the front where you push the top and they open up to reveal 3 hot-swap hard drive caddies. The display model they had had a sata backplane for the bottom 3 hard drives but the other didn't have a backplane... I just thought it was a really nice case.

[Board of Command]

For that price I'd rather get some Lian-Li case.

[itadakimasu]

Found some memory to buy finally... I've been scouring ebay and the internet trying to find a deal on a 12gb kit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227401&Tpk=OCZ3P1333LV12GS

I found it via bing! $135.69 w\ free shipping from amazon and I think 2.5% cashback w\ bing.

I'm hoping it ships from their texas site so i can have it tomorrow : ) That is where amazon is really cool because they have a local site so you get free shipping and it usually ends up being next day.

[itadakimasu]

Finally got everything into the case last night. Pictures to come a little later. I'm still waiting on a heatsink, so will have to pull everything out again to install it but... not a huge deal.

I am not a huge overclocker but the i7 is by far the most effortless overclock I've ever seen. 2.66-3.2ghz on stock cooling. I don't want to go any higher because temps were 50-55 @3.2.

I guess my last full build was this past october. I think this build is actually a little cheaper than my last one that consisted of a Q9450 + 2gb ddr3 + 2x hd3870. This one i7 920, 12gb ddr3, 2gb hd4870, 300gb velociraptor

I may also stick in the 2 320gb hd's I have sitting around for extra storage.

[Buffalobiian]

Does the i7 overclock well with all the power-saving features like EIST enabled? It would be sweet if it could flick back and forth between under- and overclocked speed according to CPU demand.

[darkshadow]

I don't think power saving features work at all when you overclock.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't think power saving features work at all when you overclock.

That sucks. I know in previous CPUs it throws all the voltages/clocks out of whack and causes stability issues, so I hoped they made it work this time round.

[itadakimasu]

I didn't spend much time w\ it last night but I need to turn one of the power saving features off because the multiplier was jumping around some.

I haven't been keeping up too much but they had an article on tomshardware about upcoming intel models and they have a slew of new models coming out w\ the new socket too.

I'd think that all the core2quad stuff would start dropping way down in price when 775 becomes a 3 gen socket.

[Board of Command]

I don't think power saving features work at all when you overclock.
Sure they do. I have Speedstep on right now with my overclocked system. However, it may not have full functionality. If you set a manual voltage instead of leaving it at AUTO, then you don't get voltage scaling. If you set a manual multiplier instead of leaving it at AUTO, then you don't have any frequency scaling.

I just have frequency scaling right now and it works fine. There's no issue with power saving features as long as your system is stable in the reduced power states.

[itadakimasu]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/i7.jpg

i7 920,12gb ddr3-1333,2gb hd4870, 300gb velociraptor, 580w sigma shark psu.

I'm waiting on a coolermaster v-8 cooler and might swap out the psu for a 700w modular one.

[darkshadow]

even though your system is quite beastly, that cause is omfg fugly dude ;P

[Board of Command]

That is the opposite of "elegant."

[itadakimasu]

i was waiting for BOC to chime in !

I had that case and another and I like the idea of a huge fan on the front and side since my last couple systems have had horrible air flow.

[Board of Command]

How's the noise on those big fans?

I think one of these days I'm going to try to make my own CPU waterblock and cooling system. I want to go for something totally radical as a fun, proof of concept thing. I'm not even going to use it in any of my machines regardless of how well, or poorly, it performs.

[Buffalobiian]

i was waiting for BOC to chime in !

I had that case and another and I like the idea of a huge fan on the front and side since my last couple systems have had horrible air flow.

My P182 probably fits into the "horrible airflow" category since it's got no intake fan and only a single 7v 120mm exhaust fan, but it's getting me by fine. No overclocking of course.

@BoC: If you don't use it yourself, how will you show it off to people that it works? :rolleyes:

[itadakimasu]

it's a low hum on high... I have my other system going on my desk next to that one and the noise from my hard drives is more than those fans.

[Buffalobiian]

it's a low hum on high... I have my other system going on my desk next to that one and the noise from my hard drives is more than those fans.

Yeah, given the size of those fans, hard-mounted hard disks would be a bigger problem, especially if it's right next to you.

Is that side fan an exhaust or intake? I ask because my brother has a front/side/back fan setup as well. He's got two fans at the top-back (top mounted PSU + 1 back exhaust), two side intake fans and lower-front intake.

It doesn't make much sense because all the air that's being blown into the back-lower region has nowhere to go.

[Board of Command]

@BoC: If you don't use it yourself, how will you show it off to people that it works? :rolleyes:
I'll have pictures and videos. I will use it on a test system.

[itadakimasu]

i got a coolermaster mystique case today... considering moving it into that one if the V8 heatsink will fit.

I'm getting high temps and the arctic silver website had directions to put just a straight line and not spread it or anything... so I'm going to have to pull the mobo out anyhow.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/cm.jpg

The one i have has a clear side though w\ an area for a 120mm fan

[Buffalobiian]

I like the look of this case much better. I was never a fan of clear-side panels, but that's personal preference. It's convenient at times.

[itadakimasu]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/cm.jpg

The one i have has a clear side though w\ an area for a 120mm fan

New system. I sold the i7 920 system I built and I have a new budget system going...

cpu : e6750 @ 3ghz
ram : 4gb ddr2-800 @450mhz (stole 2 sticks from my main system)
video : evga 8600gts (came w\ the system when I bought it)
mobo : Gigabyte P31
psu : 600w coolermaster ( came w\ system)

I really like the case that it's in. it's really solid and sturdy and isn't too big like my 3Daurora.

I got the system for $125 on craigslist because the guy had screwed the mobo directly to the case and grounded it out so it wouldn't boot... swapped the mobo for this gigabyte one. I'm thinking of making this my main system. The cpu runs really cool w\ stock intel cooling.... my amd 6000 idles @ 50, this idles @ 30 lol

if i decide to make it my main system I'm going to drop in my 2gb 4870 and maybe switch the psu for one of the modular ones I have.

[Buffalobiian]

What do you mean by "screwed directly to the case"? All the systems I've made are screwed to the case, but the screws go into the little gold hexagonal things (pegs) between it (mobo) and the case. They don't look like insulating material, and I'm pretty sure there's no rubber rings or anything. Is that "directly"? Or did the guy not even use the pegs and just slapped the mobo flush against the case?

Your new system would do well for a main system for general use. 8600gts is getting old though :p

The new case is classy. Is the AMD 6000 in that other case with the giant front intake fan? If so, looks like this guy's thermally better performing too.

[darkshadow]

If you don't use those pegs or simply screw it in too tight, the mobo gets grounded and won't boot at all.

[Board of Command]

I got the system for $125 on craigslist because the guy had screwed the mobo directly to the case and grounded it out so it wouldn't boot... swapped the mobo for this gigabyte one. I'm thinking of making this my main system. The cpu runs really cool w\ stock intel cooling.... my amd 6000 idles @ 50, this idles @ 30 lol

if i decide to make it my main system I'm going to drop in my 2gb 4870 and maybe switch the psu for one of the modular ones I have.
That's such a massive downgrade though... E6750 is crap...

[Buffalobiian]

That's such a massive downgrade though... E6750 is crap...

He's overclocking it. I'm assuming the AMD 6000 is stock.

[Board of Command]

He's overclocking it. I'm assuming the AMD 6000 is stock.
He said it's @ 3 GHz, which is still kinda crappy considering he downgraded from an i7 920.

[Buffalobiian]

Ah. I thought you were comparing the E6750 with the AMD 6000.

[itadakimasu]

I only built the i7 system to build it and sell it. I wasn't planning on keeping a $1000+ build for my own usage since all I do is surf, watch videos, and play starcraft right now.

I'm about to switch over the the Cosmos system though for my main. I just got a Xigmatek AIO cooler and I have the e6750 @ 3.4ghz. It idles @ 25-26c and gets to maybe 42 at load.

I'm going to put the 2gb 4870 in there too. Only problem is that I can't just move my raid over to a new mobo since it runs off the mobo : (

I also have another build I'm about to start w\ 2x xeon 5420's (3.4ghz 1600fsb) + 6gb. I was thinking to try to make it a hackintosh but I need to get all the software to do that.

[itadakimasu]

I officially switched over to this new build.

I have the e6750 @ 3.4ghz and I installed my 4870. The 4870 runs pretty hot, but I guess most video cards do. I installed windows 7 rc1 on 74gb raptor I had and probably will ghost it after I get everything backed up from my old system... I don't think I'm going to bother setting up raid.


http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/temperatures.jpg

Side note : Has everybody noticed how high ddr2 prices have gone?

DDR2 was dirt cheap.... and I just looked @ newegg and the cheapest 4gb ddr2-6400 kit is $65 !!!! I had 3 2gb sticks 4-5 weeks ago and I sold them for $30 (all together) on tomshardware forums, and now i'd like some and cant find any at a good price.

[Board of Command]

I think DDR2 prices have crept back up because manufacturers are now focusing on DDR3, which has gone down in price in a huge hurry over the past year.

[6Zabuza9]

Hey guys, it's me again, I haven't made the computer I askd for last time due to some family financial issues that came up. Now I am more focusing on upgrading my current computer for it to last a couple more years or something. After doing some research I wish for your guys advice.

Currently my comps specs are:
350w power supply
Intel d865perl motherboard (found out from crucial.com scan)
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz processor
4X256 sticks of ram
Geforce fx 5500 video card

I plan on upgrading my video card and maybe some more ram in order to play future games like sc2 in the future and mainly Borderlands atm.

After some browsing on newegg this graphics card appealed to me
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130509
(mainly cheap price, free ame, and good reviews appealed to me)

new ram
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178101
(cheap price)

and after reading about the graphics card it was recommended to have at least a 400w power supply so i found this
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170012
(cheap price)

I would like advice on whether my comps is upgradable or not with my current motherboard and processor, and if my choices are good choices. As well from browsing newegg whats the difference between and server power supply and power supply?

[Buffalobiian]

Upgrading's not worth it man. That board supports AGP and PCI only, while the graphics card you're looking at (and all the newer generation cards) use PCI-E.

The P4 will be usable for a little while longer, but the board and everything else is too backward for any significant upgrade.

[itadakimasu]

If you have a frys near you, they have an AMD Athlon II 620 ( quad core) and asus mobo for $119.99.

I bought a 620 when they came out for $99 and haven't put it into a board yet : (

For gaming, go w\ a video card w\ ddr3, 256bit or greater bandwidth and more than 64 shaders. Don't worry so much w\ the 1gb memory that one has since it's slower ddr2.

[itadakimasu]

Well... my old system is toast, sorta. Dismantled it because it wouldn't post after I swapped out the cpu (6000+) w\ a 9850 BE... wouldn't boot w\ teh 6000 either.

New build :

Biostar TA790GX XE mobo
Ram : 8gb ddr2-800 (nanya - found in a system I had at work! rawwwr)
CPU : Trying to decide between an Athlon II 620 @ 2.6ghz or a Phenom 9850 BE @ 2.5... I have both CPU's and really am not sure which I should keep in the system. The Athlon 2 idles @ 800mhz and 24c but i haven't run any kind of benchmarking yet.

Video card : Also unsure : I have the following choices . 2gb 4870, 768mb 8800GTX, 512mb 8600gts, 512mb 3870... I'm thinking of puting the 4870 in and putting an 8800gtx into my intel system where the 4870 is now.

Windows 7 pwns... I think the total install time was maybe 10-15 minutes. And of course, no missing drivers.

[itadakimasu]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/8800gtx2.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/8800gtx.jpg

Really? Full tower... come on.

[Buffalobiian]

lol.

^ That's all I can say right now.

[Kraco]

You should have seen it coming, though, with an interior design like that. That perforated metal plate completely and nonoptionally blocking that part of a case was a sure sign of doom. I'm never going to buy a case like that. In my current one a HD slot was rendered useless by the video card extending so close to it but at least that was it. Nothing prevented me from installing the card (and I could throw the other HD to a 3.5" floppy drive slot since who would have such a thing anymore anyway).

[Buffalobiian]

My VGA card blocks a HDD slot too, but I really don't need that when I have another 5.

The only real issue I have with making sure hardware fits in the case is with CPU heatsinks. I can't ever be sure enough that the case isn't pushing down on everything.

[Kraco]

My VGA card blocks a HDD slot too, but I really don't need that when I have another 5.

My case is actually a mini tower, I believe, but it does have a few of HD slots. I just didn't want to stack the HDs right next to each other. They heat up enough as it is. I wanted to leave air between them, so you could say the video card removed two of the three HD slots in practice.

[itadakimasu]

not "custom" but... I saw this Dell XPS 710 "AS IS" on ebay a couple weeks ago and I won it for $357 + 50 for shipping. It was supposed to have 4gb ram but it came w\ none... so i'm waiting on a partial refund or something from the seller for that. But, anyhow...

It works perfectly fine. It's got a QX6700, the H2C ceramic + liquid cooling, and 768mb 8800GTX's. I was just trying to get an idea of value... they have 2 of these in the dell outlet. one is new for $1659 w\ 1 8600GTS video card, and the other is $1939 scratch+dent w\ a 500g hd, 4gb, and the same video card + cpu setup.

The Bios has automatic overclock settings to set the cpu either @ stock 2.66, 2.93, or 3.2ghz. I put a 150gb raptor x in it and I'm gonna load an OS later tonight if I have time and see how she runs!

[itadakimasu]

i9 6-core cpu's "leaked" on ebay.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-gulftown-westmere,9200.html

Somebody posted a link in the comments to this story : somebody has had one already and overclocked it past 6ghz w\ liquid nitrogen.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239338&highlight=gulftown

[6Zabuza9]

So on boxing day futureshop is having 200$ off this computer for 599

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10134700&catid=

do you guys think its a good deal

[itadakimasu]

bumping the thread for 2010!

I was on newegg and they have the Antec 900 on the main page for $59.99 after rebate.. so I clicked it, and they also have a combo deal w\ a dvdrw too.

So, it's $79.99 for the case, $19.99 for the dvd burner, $22 instant discount for the combo, and $20 mail in rebate for the case.

Shipping is free too. I went ahead and bought one even though I for sure don't "need" it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.399036

I decided to switch from my cosmos to the 900. I'll post pictures later in the weekend. I'm also going to use my AIO H2o cooler. I've been using the stock AM3 cooler on my athlon II 620 and it gets pretty loud when the fan starts revving up.

[itadakimasu]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/IMG_0711.jpg

[Animeniax]

Nice looking case. A little too flashy for my tastes though. I'd like something that stood out less as a computer case.

So my mainboard is dead, won't boot. I can either get a new motherboard and continue using my Q6600 and DDR2-800 RAM, or I can get a new motherboard/CPU/RAM combo.

Does this seem like a decent build?
Intel i-7 920 2.66GHz CPU
Intel X58 LGA 1366 Motherboard
Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1600 RAM

[darkshadow]

That's more then decent.

[Animeniax]

If I only browse the internet and type up Office documents, it's probably a bit of overkill right?

I guess it's better than not having the power in case some game comes out that I'd rather play on the PC than on X360. I'm a little wary of Intel motherboards, but Asus kind of let me down (last motherboard failed) and their boards seem a little pricey.

[Buffalobiian]

If I only browse the internet and type up Office documents, it's probably a bit of overkill right?

i7? DDR3?

Of course, lol.

You could even opt for a netbook if you feel like being cheap or portable :p

[Animeniax]

Well I have a laptop that I'm on now but I definitely prefer using a desktop for speed and capacity. I also play games when something worthwhile comes out, and do a little audio and video encoding. I've always been of the mind to overdo it rather than under-do it when it comes to power and I like to future proof so I won't have to upgrade again for 2-3 years.

The 3 parts I listed come out to $629 on Newegg.com and that's all that's keeping me from buying them since that's not really in my budget. The alternative is to buy a new motherboard for $120 and continue using the Q6600.

[darkshadow]

It's not that intel's mobo seems a little pricey, ALL X58 mobo's are pricey, since it's a crazy high end chipset.

I think that if you want decent, yet futureproof, get a P55 mobo and an i5 750.

[Animeniax]

Would you recommend the i5 750 over the i5 650? The 650 is 32nm vs 45nm with the 750 and the power consumption is lower on the 650. The 750 is quad core though.

[Kraco]

I wouldn't anymore get anything but a quad core for a desktop if you intend to ever do more than word processing and web browsing. But maybe that's just me.

When you consider i5 750 it's good to keep in mind for some weird reason 750 specifically does not have Intel's famed hyper-threading. Most of the other i# processors sport it. But if you never paid attention to that technology, then the surprise omission shouldn't bother you.

[Animeniax]

Yeah I noticed the absence of hyperthreading on the i5 750 but assumed it was implemented in another form. If that's not the case, then what's with the lack of ht support in the i5 750?

I'm also a quad-core only kind of user, but I think it's unnecessary for 95% of what I do. I might revert to dual cores if the rest of the feature set makes up for the lack of extra cores.

[darkshadow]

There is no hyperthreading, because it has 4 physical cores. The whole quad + HT is reserved for the high end; the i7's and higher.

The 650 is a dual core with HT, so even though you wind up with 4 logical cores, it won't have the dedicated performance of the 750.

This is also why the die is bigger and why the 750 uses more wattage.

[Buffalobiian]

Here's a pic of a bare HD 5870.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2750/cardbare.th.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/cardbare.jpg/)

Where would the "voltage regulators" be (that I have to attached heatsink/fins to?)

I have a fair idea, but would rather get an educated opinion. My searches have been all but definitive.

[darkshadow]

Right under de memory chips:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3992/vrm.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/i/vrm.jpg/)

[Buffalobiian]

Hmm..that seems to be the case. Thanks for confirming DS.

My 9800GTX+ died (again) and I thought it's time for a new gfx card. (not that I really have a choice now).

According to Arctic Cooling's website, the Accelero S1 Rev 2(which is attached to my 9800GTX+ right now) is compatible with the 5870 - but looking at the VRsinks they come with.. it doesn't look like they'll cool it properly.

I could buy it for 400AUD and check it out, but that would be a pretty hefty price to learn a lesson. I guess I'll use it on my brother's 4850 (he's upgrading) when he abandons it in 2 weeks or so.

[Buffalobiian]

Have you ended up buying something yet Animeniax?

My mobo (I think?) died, and I'm deciding to upgrade - and ran into some old news about Foxconn sockets burning out i5 processors.

Currently looking at an i5 750, and I haven't settled on the mobo, memory or PSU yet.

edit: I remember reading some info about how the quadcores can suspend 2 of the 4 cores when there's not enough demand. I've read some intel whitepapers that seemed to support this (though it didn't say it outright). Does anyone else know if this is true?

[darkshadow]

I don't think that happens at all, the cpu's do downclock, but they don't suspend cores.
Perhaps it's a mobile chipset only thing. Haven't heard of desktop's doing that.

[Buffalobiian]

Fair enough. I might have been imagining things, since I remember it was specifically a quad core feature.

Meanwhile, latest troubles have been finding the

Thermalright Socket 1156 Bolt-Thru-Kit Rev.B mounting kit for my HR-01 PLUS.

All vendors in Australia seem to have the first revision while only works for the 120 TRUE, but not mine.

If I had to get it internationally, I'd be better off investing in a new cooler. :(

[Buffalobiian]

Upgraded my PC a few days ago:

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3005/02102010089.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/02102010089.jpg/)

New parts:

i5 760 (using previous HR-01 PLUS cooler with 1156 mounting kit)
ASUS P7P55D LE
8GB Geil 1333MHz RAM
Corsair AX-850

Pre-existing parts:

ATI HD5870 (using Accelero S1 cooler previously installed on a GeForce 9800GTX+, VRMs cooled by Thermalright VRM-R4)
2x Samsung 500GB 5400rpm SATA HDD
Antec P182
DVD-burner



My previous board was a Gigabyte 775 socket board. The new layout was interesting, as the PCIe socket now sits a lot higher than with my Gigabyte board. The result is that the graphics card sits higher, with three fans lined up almost perfectly.

CPU torturing ends up with temps that are only mildly hotter than my E6600, as I'm guessing it gains some cooling benefit now that the noctua VRM-cooling fan is also directed at it. Temps cap at 68C. I think my previous issue was actually not applying enough thermal paste. I put a decent amount on now.

Adding gfx torturing to it reverses this, however. The graphics cooling solution I've chosen means the heat released from the card relies on chassis cooling to bring it out of the system, resulting in a very warm internal ambient. Furthermore, the VRMs reach 68C peak during this, and the air from its heat sink would now feed directly into the CPU's HS. In these scenarios, it will max out at 84C.

Nothing critical though. And the new PSU is quieter than my old one, so that's pretty awesome. I can't reliably tell the difference since the majority of the noise is created by the two Nexus fans at the top left.

[Raven]

Upgrading soon, please critique my list so far and answer the questions I have:

Intel Core i7 950
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Mboard OR Asus P6X58D-E
OCZ DDR3 PC3-16000 Reaper 3x2GB
CoolerMaster CM690 II Advanced
OCZ Vertex 2 3.5" 120GB E Series SSD
Western Digital 2TB SATAII
CoolerMaster V8 CPU Cooler
Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM

Already own - GeForce GTX 285

Questions:
- Is it worth using SSD for Windows and standard SATA for games, or will gaming speeds be handicapped by the slower drive? Not sure of how it works.
- I won't be utilizing SLI/Crossfire in the foreseeable future as I've always been a single graphics card man - does that mean I can find cheaper mboard alternatives that don't support it?
- I've heard that people often fall into the trap of buying RAM that's too fast for their CPU to utilize in terms of Mhz... I haven't done that, have I? I've mainly read up on clock speed so far.

[Buffalobiian]

- Is it worth using SSD for Windows and standard SATA for games, or will gaming speeds be handicapped by the slower drive? Not sure of how it works.

Gaming speeds will largely be limited by your gaming drive, since it loads all the textures and game data from there. You'll need to put your games in the SSD to notice any real performance gains.



- I won't be utilizing SLI/Crossfire in the foreseeable future as I've always been a single graphics card man - does that mean I can find cheaper mboard alternatives that don't support it?

Yes... if you can. Every 1366 socket mobo I see supports SLI/Cross Fire though, since you're already buying an upmarket CPU.Your choice of motherboard(s) is already one of the least costly ones.


- I've heard that people often fall into the trap of buying RAM that's too fast for their CPU to utilize in terms of Mhz... I haven't done that, have I? I've mainly read up on clock speed so far.

You've bought RAM at 1600MHz. Your CPU supports up to 1066MHz RAM speeds. To utilize 1600MHz, you'll need to overclock. (it's probably more correct to say that 1600MHz RAM allows you to overclock your CPU to that base clock speed - only learnt about that recently.

Build comments: any reason for the V8 cooler?

[Kraco]

If you got a good deal on the memory, there's no reason not to get it. I got faster RAM than my CPU can handle because it was a special offer. I just use it at a lower speed. Although I'm not adventurous enough to have tried dropping the CL lower despite underclocking it.

If you have got no special deals, then I can't say if it's worth it.

[Buffalobiian]

If you got a good deal on the memory, there's no reason not to get it. I got faster RAM than my CPU can handle because it was a special offer. I just use it at a lower speed. Although I'm not adventurous enough to have tried dropping the CL lower despite underclocking it.

If you have got no special deals, then I can't say if it's worth it.

Yeah, I can't find any RAM lower than 1600MHz at the online stores I frequent neither. Guess like the board, most of the stuff now is enthusiast-orientated.

[Raven]

Thanks Bill.



Build comments: any reason for the V8 cooler?
No real reason besides someone recommending it in passing.
I've since been put onto the Mega Shadow (http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_23_769&products_id=12514) coupled with the Zalman ZM-F3 (http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_510&products_id=15465), but I'm still reading reviews.

[Buffalobiian]

Thanks Bill.


No real reason besides someone recommending it in passing.
I've since been put onto the Mega Shadow (http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_23_769&products_id=12514) coupled with the Zalman ZM-F3 (http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_510&products_id=15465), but I'm still reading reviews.

You only need aftermarket CPU cooling for 2 reasons:

1) overclocking and/or
2) quiet cooling.

[Raven]

You only need aftermarket CPU cooling for 2 reasons:

1) overclocking and/or
2) quiet cooling.
Correct, both of which I am after.

[Buffalobiian]

Correct, both of which I am after.

In that case your 1600MHz would be a good choice after all (unless you're going even more extreme) ;)

[Buffalobiian]

Can anybody tell me about what to look for when purchasing a sound card, or offer a recommendation if they have one? I've only used onboard sound, and have been very satisfied with it, but am wanting to buy something better to source a potential ATH-AD700 headphone purchase.

The sound equipment I have are Logitech 2.1 speakers (R-20), the new headphones (both via 3.5mm jacks + splitter), and a mic when needed.

I was considering a card with front-side panel, jacks and volume control previously, but I just remembered I can buy a multimedia keyboard for the on-the-fly volume adjustment, so having a front-panel is no longer a requirement.

My main uses are music and anime, with the occasional movie. Positioning isn't as important as natural sound reproduction, but that's more a headphone/speaker thing anyway.

I haven't set a budget for myself yet, as I have no idea what's out there and how things compare to each other from a performance/cost perspective. (Xel mentioned that a card would cost between 150-300$ )

[darkshadow]

From cheapest to most expensive.

SB audigy 2zs - discontinued
SB X-FI Titanium - €60
"" Titanium fatality pro - €100
"" Titanium Fatality champ - €120
Auzentech Forte 7.1 - €132
SB X-FI Titanium HD - €155
Auzentech HT HD - €200/250 (this one is sick, but I think out of your price range/usage)

Based on what you said, just get the SB X-FI Titanium, or if you can still find it at a cheaper price, the Audigy 2zs.

[Buffalobiian]

Thanks for list DS (and Xel via IRC). My graphics card setup renders all my PCIe ports useless though, so my cheapest alternative would be to sought out a PCI card.

The Auzentech X-FI Prelude you mentioned before is like impossible to find in Australia. I've pretty much got my choice set on the Asus Xonar Essence ST (http://www.asus.com.au/product.aspx?P_ID=k8OChreLuh8zgFmQ&templete=2) right now, though I'm giving myself a bit of time just in case the Asus Xonar D2 (http://www.asus.com.au/product.aspx?P_ID=QsEKBPr6ko9pFF2D&templete=2) turns out to be a better buy.

Too bad the Asus site's compare function sucks.


edit: Essence ST it is. Now it's simply waiting for the right time to make the jump.

[darkshadow]

I generally don't like the xonar cards because I dislike the chip they use, same reason I told you to stay away from the x-* series auzen cards.
But I guess if you aren't really going to do any gaming, it should be somewhat fine.

I would also say to stay away from the essence ST because the lack of analog 7.1. But I guess as long as you use your stereo equipment it should work fine.....just don't upgrade to 5.1+ ;P

[Animeniax]

I'm looking to build an ultra-portable desktop PC unit so I can bring it to work to play CoD on our blazing fast uni network. Can anyone give me opinions on these components?

1. LIAN LI PC-V351B Black Aluminum MicroATX Desktop Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112222)
2. ASUS M4A785-M AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131595)
3. AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808)
4. CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5C (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145241)
5. MSI N460GTX Hawk GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127518)

The motherboard has a built-in ATI HD4200 videochip with the ability to crossfire with another ATI videocard you install. But I'm getting the Nvidia vidcard to install in my home PC and installing the 8800GTX from that into this mobile PC. Also, I'll be using a WD Raptor 74GB HDD and Asus DVD drive I have already.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm looking to build an ultra-portable desktop PC unit so I can bring it to work to play CoD on our blazing fast uni network. Can anyone give me opinions on these components?

1. LIAN LI PC-V351B Black Aluminum MicroATX Desktop Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112222)
2. ASUS M4A785-M AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131595)
3. AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808)
4. CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5C (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145241)
5. MSI N460GTX Hawk GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127518)

The motherboard has a built-in ATI HD4200 videochip with the ability to crossfire with another ATI videocard you install. But I'm getting the Nvidia vidcard to install in my home PC and installing the 8800GTX from that into this mobile PC. Also, I'll be using a WD Raptor 74GB HDD and Asus DVD drive I have already.

I can't really nitpick at anything there, except that if you were looking at changing the bus speed of the CPU for overclocking, some DDR2-1066 would give you more headroom. It's not needed at all though, especially since it's a good CPU on default settings alone, and overclocks well using multipliers only too.

Does that case have a handle (or can you find one with one)? That would be handy.

[Animeniax]

I can't really nitpick at anything there, except that if you were looking at changing the bus speed of the CPU for overclocking, some DDR2-1066 would give you more headroom. It's not needed at all though, especially since it's a good CPU on default settings alone, and overclocks well using multipliers only too.

Does that case have a handle (or can you find one with one)? That would be handy.No handle, but that's not a big minus even though I plan to carry it around. I won't be overclocking since it's a small case with little room for cooling, but I will go with your suggestion and get a higher speed RAM for future upgradeability.

I'm thinking of going with lower models of each part to cut the budget, like getting a cheaper case than a Lian-Li in the same size. Mainly I'd like feedback if all the parts would work together and are good for the price, since I've been out of PC building for a while so I don't know what's what anymore.

[David75]

Just did a very quick search, but seems like the proc is choosen because the best in range, rather than best overall?

Seems like the 925 would be a better performance/price challenger
The AMD Phenom II X6 1055T would be a better performer for the same thermal envelop, although more expensive.

Then there's the sandybridge alternative with the core i5-2500 but even with bundles I guess it's not possible to have a low cost
machine. But at least you gets lots of HP for a lower TDP (95W) which is very important in a tiny case.

I'll try to get more time and think about it.

I've spent a lot of time thinking of temperature/performance ratios as I do not tolerate noise, but still need power :D

[Buffalobiian]

I've spent a lot of time thinking of temperature/performance ratios as I do not tolerate noise, but still need power :D

Same with me. It's hard sometimes.

It'd be nice to have a max budget from Ani too to work with, but I'll need to play catch-up. The new 1155 socket launch completely left me behind.

Newegg doesn't have very many non-black Phenoms anymore, which I was hoping to find to drop the price.

[Animeniax]

Is there a big difference between the black and non-black versions performance and price wise? The 925 is $20 cheaper so I decided to stick with the 955. I considered going Intel, but like David75 said, it's really not easy to go budget with a i-cpu based system.

I don't really have a max budget, maybe $500. Here's the current list which totals $525:

1. APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144162)
2. MSI 880GM-E43 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130293)
3. MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127490)
4. AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808)
5. G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303)

[Buffalobiian]

Is there a big difference between the black and non-black versions performance and price wise? The 925 is $20 cheaper so I decided to stick with the 955. I considered going Intel, but like David75 said, it's really not easy to go budget with a i-cpu based system.

I don't really have a max budget, maybe $500. Here's the current list which totals $525:

1. APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144162)
2. MSI 880GM-E43 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130293)
3. MSI R5770 Hawk Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127490)
4. AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103808)
5. G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303)

Non-black versions simply have their multipliers unlocked for easier overclocking. If they were released far enough apart, they'd also be using a newer die spec that would allow them to run cooler / more energy efficient. They would perform the same as their non-black counterparts on a clock-per-clock basis. From memory, most of them step up just a tiny bit in front of the non-blacks though (like the 3.4GHz vs 3.2Ghz you had?). It's up to you, really (assuming you have both versions to choose from).

It's not worth using faster DDR2 since that's getting phased out, but I see you found some faster DDR3 RAM and a board for the same price. Nice.

That build looks good to go, though I'm sure you know the 5770 is a step down from the GTX 460, as suggested by the price.



--------------------------


In other news, I bought a mains power meter to measure the power and cost of running appliances around the house. To start with, I tested the consumption of our two main computers (my brother's C2D and my i5) and got some interesting results:

i5 760 (2.8GHz, 4 cores), ATI HD 5870

idle: 55-60w (CPU @ 1.2GHz)
4 cores loaded: 120w (CPU @ 2.93GHz)
4 cores + GPU loaded: 270w (CPU @ 2.93GHz)
2 cores + GPU loaded: 250w (CPU @ 2.99-3.05GHz)


C2D E8400 (3.0GHz, 2 cores), Nvidia GTX 470

idle: 80-90w (CPU @ 2.0GHz)
2 cores loaded: 130w (CPU @ 3.0GHz)
2 cores + GPU loaded: 350w (CPU @ 3.0GHz)

[Animeniax]

That build looks good to go, though I'm sure you know the 5770 is a step down from the GTX 460, as suggested by the price. Cool thanks for the information on the black vs non-black versions. I decided to go with an ATI videocard so I can crossfire it with the built-in vidcard on the motherboard. Most all AMD motherboards I've seen have integrated ATI vidcards, some of which support crossfiring with another vidcard.



In other news, I bought a mains power meter to measure the power and cost of running appliances around the house. To start with, I tested the consumption of our two main computers (my brother's C2D and my i5) and got some interesting results:

i5 760 (2.8GHz, 4 cores), ATI HD 5870

idle: 55-60w (CPU @ 1.2GHz)
4 cores loaded: 120w (CPU @ 2.93GHz)
4 cores + GPU loaded: 270w (CPU @ 2.93GHz)
2 cores + GPU loaded: 250w (CPU @ 2.99-3.05GHz)


C2D E8400 (3.0GHz, 2 cores), Nvidia GTX 470

idle: 80-90w (CPU @ 2.0GHz)
2 cores loaded: 130w (CPU @ 3.0GHz)
2 cores + GPU loaded: 350w (CPU @ 3.0GHz)Wow the differences are pretty drastic between core2 and i series, though how much can be chalked up to the videocards? Maybe you could swap videocards and check the meter again.

[darkshadow]

Lol you want to crossfire a 5770 with a 4250.....hahahahahahahaha

[Buffalobiian]

Wow the differences are pretty drastic between core2 and i series, though how much can be chalked up to the videocards? Maybe you could swap videocards and check the meter again.

Ho ho, that sounds messy. :P.

Some of my results seem to conflict with other sites' data. For example, two (http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2581&page=5) sites (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/01/04/intel-core-i5-661-core-i3-530-cpu-review/8) tested that the 750 under load measures more than the 8400. That makes sense.

Similarly, one review (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/30321-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-review-29.html) places the two cards fairly close together, while another (http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/26/nvidia_fermi_gtx_470_480_sli_review/7) notes that there are fairly big differences.

When you take into the efficiency of my i5's power supply (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1073-page3.html) vs the C2D's (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1067-page4.html), things match up a bit. Working out the DC power draw from the efficiency tables, our two-core-plus-graphics at load drew 225w(i5,5870) vs 298w(C2D,470).

That's a 73w difference. Review sites reckon the 470 draws 30-60W more, and my own results suggest the C2D draws up to 30W more at load, giving a difference leeway of 60-90w. I did buy a pretty expensive power meter that's within 2% accuracy after all.

All in all, it's "about right". Review sites have stated that their equipment isn't 100% consistent due to testing different sockets. Then you have to factor in that the i5 has a newer mobo, is running the lower-volted DDR3 vs DDR2, and uses two eco-5400rpm drives instead of three 7200rpm ones.

Unless I'm bothered to swap cards and work out the gfx loads using simultaneous equations, this will always be muddy. :P



--------------------


I also bought an IR laser themometer. I bought it to measure the video RAM temps during torture tests, as they don't have an onboard sensor and I've also got a custom cooler with 3rd party vram-sinks. Temps measured from 59C to 74C, so it's all within specs.

The manual advises you to measure as close as possible because the measuring diameter increases with distance. Being the guy I was, I got too trigger happy and ended up dropping my laser on the the 5870's PCB and shorted it out. >.<"

It's been running fine since then, and it rebooted successfully immediately afterwards, so I'm just hoping that's the end of that little incident. I had the option of buying an IR laser pen or an IR laser orb that hangs around your neck. The orb was plastic, but looked like a stopwatch, so I opted for the more stylish metal pen laser. Maybe the other one would have been a safer choice after all..

[Animeniax]

Lol you want to crossfire a 5770 with a 4250.....hahahahahahahaha

I take it from your cacophonous laughter that this is a bad idea? Will there be no performance gain utilizing both cards (gasp maybe even a performance hit)? The description on the mobo makes it sound like a great feature that will improve performance.

[Buffalobiian]

I take it from your cacophonous laughter that this is a bad idea? Will there be no performance gain utilizing both cards (gasp maybe even a performance hit)? The description on the mobo makes it sound like a great feature that will improve performance.

Crossfiring 2 identical cards gives you... like up to 33% benefit max?

A 4250 would do jack all.

The 460 would be a better buy. It performs up to twice as well as the 5770.

[Animeniax]

Crossfiring 2 identical cards gives you... like up to 33% benefit max?

A 4250 would do jack all.

The 460 would be a better buy. It performs up to twice as well as the 5770.That works out. I prefer to buy Nvidia products since I own their stock. If the crossfire is worthless, I can go back to plan A and get a newer Nvidia card for my home PC and install the 8800GTX from that system into this portable PC.

[darkshadow]

a 4250 wouldn't do jack all...it would DESTROY the performance, since in crossfire the cards run at identical speeds....using the LOWEST gpu in the pair...
And besides that is talking about if it would work at all, which it wouldn't since the cards need to be of the same family; a 4870 can xfire with a 4830, but not with a 4650. I think the only exception is the 3xxx series which can also pair with a 2xxx series (I THINK).

In short, pairing a 5770 with the igp 4250 wouldn't work, and if it somehow did, it would completely destroy the performance of the 5770, which is at least 10x more powerful.

[Buffalobiian]

a 4250 wouldn't do jack all...it would DESTROY the performance, since in crossfire the cards run at identical speeds....using the LOWEST gpu in the pair...
And besides that is talking about if it would work at all, which it wouldn't since the cards need to be of the same family; a 4870 can xfire with a 4830, but not with a 4650. I think the only exception is the 3xxx series which can also pair with a 2xxx series (I THINK).

In short, pairing a 5770 with the igp 4250 wouldn't work, and if it somehow did, it would completely destroy the performance of the 5770, which is at least 10x more powerful.

There seems to be some confusion as to whether the 4250 crossfiring with a 5450 works or not. It breaks the family barrier if it does, but it's still shit anyway. :P

[Animeniax]

Just found out from a buddy about this bad boy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103872
AMD Athlon II X3 445 Rana 3.1GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core CPU. You can unlock the fourth core and L3 cache and it's the same as the Phenom II X4 at half the price.

[Killa-Eyez]

Euhm, damn? :eek:

[Animeniax]

Euhm, damn? :eek:

Yeah, the things you find out about when you talk to people, eh?

So the build as it currently stands:

1. APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 Black Aluminum 1.0 w/ ABS plastic front panel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 420W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144162)
2. GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394)
3. EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support ... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130568)
4. AMD Athlon II X3 445 Rana 3.1GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor ADX445WFGMBOX
5. G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303)

$516+ $10shipping.

[Killa-Eyez]

Here's a list of a system I put together for a friend of mine (in order of how I put it together)...

Coolermaster Centurion 534 Chassis (http://www1.coolermaster.com/index.php?LT=english&Language_s=2&url_place=product&p_serial=RC-534&other_title=+RC-534+Centurion%20534)
Coolermaster iGreen Power 500W Power Supply (http://www1.coolermaster.com/index.php?LT=english&Language_s=2&url_place=product&p_serial=RS-500-ASAA&other_title=+RS-500-ASAA+iGreen%20Power%20500W)
Abit Fatal1ty FP-IN9 SLI Motherboard (http://www.abit.com.tw/page/be/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php?pMODEL_NAME=Fatal1ty+FP-IN9+SLI&fMTYPE=LGA775)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 Processor (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sspec=sla4t)
Coolermaster Hyper L3 Cooling (http://www1.coolermaster.com/index.php?LT=english&Language_s=2&url_place=product&p_serial=RR-LCH-P9E1&other_title=+RR-LCH-P9E1+Hyper%20L3)
Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X2048-6400C4 Memory (http://www.corsair.com/_datasheets/TWIN2X1024-6400C4.pdf)
Asus EN7950GT/HTDP/512M Graphics Card (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=2&l2=6&l3=306&l4=0&model=1350&modelmenu=1)
Creative Soundblaster X-Fi XtremeMusic Sound Card (http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=14066)
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 500GB HD
Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 320GB HD (http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/menuitem.f053c8a6f66a6a14e85c1a70eac4f0a0/)
Lite-on LH-16D1P (Black) DVD-Rom (http://www.liteonit.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=228&Itemid=99) (In Europe only)
Lite-on LH-20A1H (Black) DVD-RW (http://us.liteonit.com/us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=204&Itemid=67)
TEAC 3,5" Diskette Drive 1,44MB (Black) / 8 in 1 Cardreader (http://dspd.teac.de/index.php?id=989&L=1) (In Europe only)
Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/285&cl=us,en)
Razer Copperhead Tempest Blue Mouse (http://www.razerzone.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=11)
Logitech Z-4 Speakers (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/home_pc_speakers/devices/250&cl=us,en) (Don't ask why, he has 7.1 output)
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/homepremium/default.mspx) (NL, 64-bit, OEM)

He got an overall score of 5.0 on his Windows Experience (3.0 and above being sufficient). More info here (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/experienceindex.mspx?CPU=5%2c0&MEM=5%2c5&HDD=5%2c6&DWM=5%2c9&D3D=5%2c9).
The whole list costs € 1496,77. Do the math!

So yeah, the dude like totally ass-raped this rig. Inert boot times, time/date settings screwed after every boot, system hangs every 5 seconds.. Hell, there's even rust stains on the outside of the chassis cause some cat (not his, it's a long story) had to go pee-pee. Don't worry, they're all dead (one almost) and so he decided after 4 years of agony, the crib being practically cat-less and all, it was time to upgrade.
I must say, this one's a beast;

Lian Li ArmorSuit PC-P50R (Black) Chassis (http://www.silverpcs.com/product_info.php?products_id=587&osCsid=c819debfbb2028c76a6ee454c2730417)
Lian Li EX-332N Int. HD Cage + Fan (http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=329&cl_index=2&sc_index=5&ss_index=12)
OCZ Z Series 1000W Modular Power Supply (http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-z-series-1000w-power-supply.html)
Asus Sabertooth X58 Motherboard (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=AM2RChl84MZrKh6J&templete=2)
Intel Core i7 960 Processor (http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=37151)
Cooler Master V6 GT Cooling (http://www.coolermaster.nl/product.php?category_id=7&product_id=6641)
Kingston ValueRAM KVR1066D3N7/2G 3X Memory (http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/configurator_new/PartsInfo.asp?root=us&LinkBack=http://www.kingston.com&ktcpartno=KVR1066D3N7/2G)
Asus ENGTX560 Ti DCII/2DI/1GD5 SLI 2X Graphics Card (http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=dmCuxCxRSaUPVbYQ&templete=2)
WD Caviar Black 1TB HD (http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/ThemeID.21986300/categoryID.13095100/subCategory.13432800/parid.13092500/catid.13094900)
Samsung SpinPoint F1 1TB HD (http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productmodel.do?group=72&type=94&subtype=98&model_cd=249&tab=fea&ppmi=1219)*
Samsung SH-S223L DVD-RW (http://www.samsung.com/ph/consumer/monitor-peripherals-printer/optical-disc-drive/dvd-rw-drive/SH-S223L/BEBE/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail)
Kingston FCR-HS219/1 19-in-1 Cardreader (http://www.kingston.com/flash/MediaReader.asp)
Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/434/285)*
Razer Lachesis Mouse (http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.207541300/categoryId.35208800)*
Logitech Z-4 Speakers (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/439/250)* (Don't ask why, he still has 7.1 output)

*Pre-owned parts. Not included in final price.

The total amount came to an honest € 1554,90, € 58,13 more than the previous one. Grab ya calc's!

The chassis comes with 4 loud ass fans for airflow, sounds horrible. So replacement fans are mandatory.
He bought Vista last time, I talked him out of giving M$ more money and went pirate on it with Windows 7 Ultimate (NL, 64-bit, OEM). Windows Experience = 5.9 (low HD speed).

@Animeniax: So was the latest set up a go and is it running flawlessly? Or have you made any changes to the composition? Updates!

[Buffalobiian]

The chassis comes with 4 loud ass fans for airflow, sounds horrible. So replacement fans are mandatory.

Fans by Noctua, Nexus and Scythe are great replacements. See whichever one's cheapest. If he's into the silent side of things, he can mod the cables to make them run at 7v instead of 12v. To get the best of both performance and silent worlds, he can dish out a little more money for a fan controller to automatically adjust the fans up and down. I can give a recommendation here if you're interested.

Any reason for the CoolerMaster cooler? I don't think they're that great. Is he looking for quieter cooling, or overclocking with that? In either case, he's better off with either a Prolima Megahalems, Thermalright Ultra-120 extreme Rev. C or a Noctua NH-D14. Costlier, but worth it IMO.

[Killa-Eyez]

Fans by Noctua, Nexus and Scythe are great replacements. See whichever one's cheapest. If he's into the silent side of things, he can mod the cables to make them run at 7v instead of 12v. To get the best of both performance and silent worlds, he can dish out a little more money for a fan controller to automatically adjust the fans up and down. I can give a recommendation here if you're interested.

Any reason for the CoolerMaster cooler? I don't think they're that great. Is he looking for quieter cooling, or overclocking with that? In either case, he's better off with either a Prolima Megahalems, Thermalright Ultra-120 extreme Rev. C or a Noctua NH-D14. Costlier, but worth it IMO.

I'm going to buy the fans for him as a gift, since he gave me his old rig for me to salvage, and was already kinda set on Scythe. But I'll check the others out also. No need for a fan controller since I'm the one buying.

The CoolerMaster V6 was his choice. He liked the design and different color led's and what not and he's not into oc-ing. So it may be a bit noisy at times but I think he'll be satisfied once the case fans have been replaced.

[Animeniax]

@Animeniax: So was the latest set up a go and is it running flawlessly? Or have you made any changes to the composition? Updates!
You built that monster for your friend? Is he loaded?

I never built the superminibox. Decided it wasn't worth $500 for a PC to play MW2 at work, which was the main purpose of building it. I'm probably going to get an iPad 2 instead.

[Killa-Eyez]

Yeah. And no, cause then he'd buy me one too.

iPad 2, huh? Never seen it's use.. I mean, is it a phone? Is it a laptop? I thought it was made for reading digital books but the commercial shows a kid playing a racing game. Is it Apple's first console, finally joining the others? WTH IS IT!!??

But yeah, a lot more mobile for work then that superminibox.

[enkoujin]

iPad/iPad2 - giant iTouch (tablet and touchscreen) that also allows 3G capabilities (to connect to the internet anywhere instead of just wi-fi) and due to its size, is usually obtained because it is more portable than a tablet.

Typically, people with large wealth, hipsters, liberal-arts majors, art students, Apple loyalists and anyone who doesn't know anything about computers typically get or desire one.

If you are looking to impress your friends, co-workers, classmates and random people on public transportation with your willingness to throw away ~$550 for $250 worth of computer parts made in China but designed in California, then the iPad was made for you.

[Killa-Eyez]

Yeah, so it's very usefull...

[Animeniax]

Lies! The iPad is a hipster product, but useful nonetheless for web browsing, watching movies, and some low-end gaming in a highly mobile platform. I am a liberal arts major, I do know plenty about computers, I dislike Apple/Mac, have some money, but I'm still considering getting one. Not the 3G version, since I don't plan to use phone/3G data, just the wifi on campus.

[enkoujin]

...useful nonetheless for web browsing, watching movies, and some low-end gaming in a highly mobile platform...

So does my low-end $430 notebook from Walmart.

It does everything an iPad/iPad2 can do. My notebook is faster, has a bigger hard drive storage, has four times the memory, lets me webcam, lets me multitask, has an integrated microphone and all the other features described on the specs page except actual writing and a front-camera (tablet can easily be supplemented):

http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/

Is there a specific place to use an iPad/iPad2 that you cannot use a regular notebook at? Can the iPad/iPad2 play Starcraft 2 or a multitude of various games, allow a keyboard that lets you type faster than an iPad/iPad2 user can write with and let you watch high-definition pornography without having to subscribe to any websites or go through a tedious method of transferring your files into your iPad/iPad2?

No? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Apple products are all just a giant fad and Apple, which was known as an underdog in the computer industry back in 1984 with its famous "Big Brother" commercial, has became what it had stood against and is super-conformist.

[Animeniax]

Nothing you said disproves what I said. Yes any computer can do what the iPad can do, but not with the same portability, coolness, and eliteness that you get with the iPad.

You can stick to watching porn on your budget notebook. I'll swat the chicks off me with my iPad2.

[enkoujin]

I just wanted to let you know that a notebook, which can do all that an iPad can do and more, is more useful in a technical aspect.

I also understand that using an Apple product means you are automatically cool and this will allow you to increase your probability of sleeping with multiple women who see you as a person with [the potential to have] great wealth which allowed you to purchase your device in the first place.

I respect your decision if you so choose to purchase such a device (I own an iTouch myself, which might be why I'm so angry that I don't have an iPad/iPad2).

[Animeniax]

Ahh man don't give up so easily. The kind of girls who would be interested in me for owning an iPad or a nice car (and therefore ostensibly having money) aren't the kind of girls I would be interested in.

I have a super desktop computer and a pretty strong laptop, neither of which is particularly portable. If I get the iPad2, its because of it's super-portability, not for its capabilities and definitely not to impress guys or girls.

[Buffalobiian]

Seriously... girls sleep with guys with ipads? >_>

[Killa-Eyez]

Btw, Buffalobiian, I've decied to go for 3 Coolermaster SickleFlow 120 2000 RPM Red LED (http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6665&category_id=3554) and 2 Prolimatech Red Vortex 14 LED (http://www.prolimatech.com/en/products/detail.asp?id=161&page=1) due to the availability of silent red led fans here. Thanks for the advice.

[Animeniax]

Seriously... girls sleep with guys with ipads? >_>

Only if you give it to them.

[David75]

Just threw a 240GB OCZ Vertex 2 and 7x64 in my 2 year old HP HDX16.
It's now a lot snapier, eventhough the upgrade was as expensive as a new laptop (or an iPad2...).
Thing is, with a new laptop in that price range, I would not have the same screen and it would still have a crappy sluggish harddrive. So I would not get the snappier behavior a SSD enables.

I'm now seriously thinking about switching all my desktops to laptops with SSDs, because the performance boost is so neat, that you don't need a desktop anymore if you do not play the latest games with it...
Should I need better sound? A nice usb sound card or digital/analog converter will do the trick.
Better screen? well HDMI out is there, so any external screen can be plugged.
Better interfaces? well external keyboard and mouse.
In short, I can have all of these on my desk for very specific uses, and then benefit portability.

But yes, those pieces of hardware are extremely expensive...

[Buffalobiian]

i always found it annoying to type using a laptop while it's hooked onto a bigger, separate screen The big blank default screen gets in the way.

Yet to make the SSD jump yet myself. I don't think I'll notice that much difference if only my OS partition is transferred over. Having the Programs partition copied over would require a fair amount of storage.. more than I'm willing to pay for, most likely.

Meanwhile, I bought one of those 2.5"/3.5" Sata-to-USB cradles, and will be getting 3x2TB 5400rpm HDDs for backup later on this week.

I may be considering having a better sound solution on my laptop too, as the internal interference creates static in the 3.5mm out signal. It's only really apparent when the laptop's plugged in though.

[David75]

i always found it annoying to type using a laptop while it's hooked onto a bigger, separate screen The big blank default screen gets in the way.

Well, just change your parameters so that your computer will not go to sleep when you close the screen. Then just leave it open by 1cm or so to prevent heat from building up when using it that way.



Yet to make the SSD jump yet myself. I don't think I'll notice that much difference if only my OS partition is transferred over. Having the Programs partition copied over would require a fair amount of storage.. more than I'm willing to pay for, most likely.

Well if your programs and OS partitions are separated, it's true that you will miss some of the snap a SSD allows. Hard to tell by how much though.



Meanwhile, I bought one of those 2.5"/3.5" Sata-to-USB cradles, and will be getting 3x2TB 5400rpm HDDs for backup later on this week.

Since I have e-sata everywhere, I buy e-sata and usb cradles/docks. It's really confortable to be in e-sata mode whenever you can. For example, a text search in gigabits of word files is just like hell through usb. It's not fast in e-sata, but almost the same as having it directly plugged in (like 80%).



I may be considering having a better sound solution on my laptop too, as the internal interference creates static in the 3.5mm out signal. It's only really apparent when the laptop's plugged in though.

You might want to try a very cheap usb card stick, with a 3.5 jack out. You should get them under US$10 or less. Normally, you should reduce, if not get rid of most of your comps electronic sound signature.

[enkoujin]

I bought this customized computer about five years ago and it's not running smoothly anymore because I get sudden restarts, frozen programs, BSODs, etc.:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/xSharinganx/comp_specs.png

When I have free time, I plan to reformat my computer as I see this might be a solution to all of the problems above (the other being a possibly damaged sound card or bad memory). The question now is - should I stick with Windows XP this time around or switch over to Windows 7 with a few computer upgrades here and there?

If I do switch over to Windows 7, what are some new parts are still compatible with my computer (socket am2/DDR2 SDRAM) and will be able to boost my performance to run Windows 7?

Are there any specific sites that help beginners with upgrading and the transition to these new functions/parts? To be honest, I barely know what any of the acronyms above mean and what they do aside from parts and their functions.

My budget's around $700 and the most demanding programs I'll be running would probably be Starcraft 2 and some PS2 games.

As always, thanks in advance!

[Kraco]

Win 7 will probably run seeing you do have a dual-core, although you might want to get more memory for it. 2 GB is barely sufficient for Win 7 in real use. Still, if I was you, I'd rather consider building the computer anew. Knowing the cheaper prices in North America (I assume Canada is no more expensive than the USA, or is it?), you should get a decent modern build with 700 dollars as long as you don't include a new screen or case. The PSU would still be sufficient with 550W but after five years is it running ok? If it is, it'll also save a nice amount for other components.

Get a mobo with USB3, 4GB of DDR3, a quad-core CPU, the Win 7 obviously, and the kind of video card the remaining budget allows. You could also postpone getting a new video card if you absolutely must, seeing how the old is PCI-E. That's my suggestion.

[Buffalobiian]

I agree with Kraco. The old board does limit your upgradability (I'm particularly looking at the CPU here). It'll run W7 as Kraco's said, but don't expect too much quality or performance from Starcraft II. The PSU's output would have degraded anywhere from 5-20% of its original 550w by 5 years now. If you do plan to keep your next computer for some time to come, get something uber (800w?) so you won't have to worry about dodgy power in the future. Newer PSUs are better at maintaining their capacities these days, though by how much I don't know.

To answer your original question, if you want to upgrade something to bring about more performance with W7, I'd say RAM as mentioned above. I'm using 2GB right now as actually..

[Killa-Eyez]

Get a mobo with USB3, 4GB of DDR3, a quad-core CPU, the Win 7 obviously...

Remember, if you use 4GB of ram, the 32 bit version of Win7 will only read up to around 3.5GB. The 64 bit version supports up to 8GB to 192GB of ram depending on which edition you use. In case you'd like to upgrade it sometime.

[Kraco]

I don't know why anybody would take the 32-bit Win 7, unless by accident (I've actually seen that happen, in fact).

[enkoujin]

Thanks, guys, I really appreciate it.

So I guess I should sum up the suggestions I got from your suggestions:

1. Decide whether or not stick with XP or upgrade to Windows 7.

Upgrading to Windows 7 will affect what parts I upgrade. In both cases though, I guess I can upgrade all my parts and run Windows XP on it without fail until XP finally loses support with new programs.

2. Consider getting a new mobo with DDR3 and USB 3.0 functionality.

3. Get a new 600+ W PSU if my power supply is failing me (more if I get better parts).

4. Get new DDR2/DDR3 memory (4+ GB).

If I upgrade to Windows 7, I'll need to upgrade to 4+ GB DDR3 memory with a new mobo or if I stay with Windows 7, I'll just need to either throw out my possibly damaged memory and buy four 2 GB DDR2 sticks.

Question - if I buy two more sticks of memory (aren't the OCZ as previously listed above) and use them in conjunction with my current ones, would my computer still be able to use its dual channel memory function even though I have two different pairs of memory sticks?

5. Get a new quad-core processor if upgrading to Windows 7; otherwise, get the one of the best AM2/AM2+ CPU for XP.

In the meanwhile, check whether or not an AM3 CPU can work on my AM2+ mobo...

6. New video card (PCI-e, 596 MB - 1 GB, DVI and possibly dual-DVI for dual-monitoring).

Bottom line: decide whether or not to reformat to either XP or Windows 7; if upgrading to Windows 7, only salvage the hard drive, ethernet card, optical and floppy drive and the case. If sticking with XP, still consider a new motherboard and do the same above. If still staying with the old mobo, throw out memory, buy new best sticks, AM2+ CPU, 600W PSU and possibly a new video card. This alone enough should provide me with 50~70 fps on moderate performance on SC2 (which I don't mind).

Thanks again!

[Animeniax]

Can anyone recommend a good HSF for the i7 series CPUs? I'm leaning towards a Prolimatech Megahalems, but the price and fitment issues may preclude it as a choice.

I have a Tuniq Tower 120, but they don't make a bracket for the LGA 1366, the bastards. $50 down the drain, twice.

[Buffalobiian]

@Ani: the Megahalems is good. I would recommend that one myself. You could also look at the Thermalright 120's latest revision. That one is also good, as is Noctua's flagship(?) cooler with the 14cm fan (forgot the model - update when I get home and search). They don't vary too much in size and price though, so you'll have to work out what you can put in your case.

@En: you can use two different pairs of ram in dual channel if you match the pairs up (eg channel A uses 2 OCZs and channel B uses two Corsairs). You can actually run dual channel using any mismatch of sticks - only the slowest clock speed will be used though. I'm not sure how AMD's bus works (hypertransport on that board?), but Intel would just use the slowest stick's spec for the RAM overall, from memory.

Really though, quantity >speed for general computing and games. Only until you get to the point where more ram doesn't matter that you start looking at speed. Just get any stick that's not worse than your current.

[Killa-Eyez]

To add to Buff:


If I upgrade to Windows 7, I'll need to upgrade to 4+ GB DDR3 memory with a new mobo or if I stay with Windows 7, I'll just need to either throw out my possibly damaged memory and buy four 2 GB DDR2 sticks.

I guess you meant using DDR3 4GB+ with Win7 (upgrading) or using new DDR2 up to 4GB with WinXP (keeping the old set up)?


Question - if I buy two more sticks of memory (aren't the OCZ as previously listed above) and use them in conjunction with my current ones, would my computer still be able to use its dual channel memory function even though I have two different pairs of memory sticks?

To answer your question; most likely, not always. Using different pairs of dual channel memory might work provided they're the same speed. Still, the best you can do is sticking with the same exact type of memory. If that's not possible you'd have most luck using ram supporting JEDEC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JEDEC_memory_standards). Last, I'd recommend using Asus' QVL (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM2/M2NE/#download) sheet. I've always found memory to be a bit tricky, especially with different types and brands. But that's my 2 cents.


Can anyone recommend a good HSF for the i7 series CPUs? I'm leaning towards a Prolimatech Megahalems, but the price and fitment issues may preclude it as a choice.

I think Buff will be able to help you on that one. He just did.

[Kraco]

Really though, quantity >speed for general computing and games. Only until you get to the point where more ram doesn't matter that you start looking at speed. Just get any stick that's not worse than your current.

Sometimes you can get good deals on semi-high quality ram, making them easily worth the small extra money. It'll allow some freedom at setting the speeds.

Anyway, Enkoujin, if you really budgeted the 700 dollars, my personal opinion is to look more at building a new system. Any money you now invest in old technology (like DDR2 or AM2) will most assuredly be wasted when you next time upgrade. But that's just my opinion, of course.

[Buffalobiian]

Additional info: the Noctual model I was talking about was the Noctua NH-D14, while the particular thermalright 120 revision was the Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme Rev. C. If you're conscious about the budget, then get the Noctua. It comes with 2 fans (and good ones) at least.


Sometimes you can get good deals on semi-high quality ram, making them easily worth the small extra money. It'll allow some freedom at setting the speeds.

True enough, but I find that sometimes people who don't understand the relationship between bus speed and memory clock end up spending money on RAM that is fast, but yields no more performance benefits. Memory that is faster than your bus speed is useless. My current memory at 1333MHz is one of the slowest in the DDR3 market (aside from 1066MHz). But the thing is, my CPU without overclocking (thereby raising its bus clock) can only use 1333MHz worth anyway. All the other performance memory chips are only if you overclock.

And with the crazy turboboosts in the Sandybridge range of processors, I hardly consider it necessary unless for whatever reason you need every core running in overdrive.

(a bit of explanation for En, since he said he wasn't so sure on the topic)

edit: regarding Kraco's comment about setting the speeds, I suppose you can buy performance RAM, use it with the standard CPU bus speed and try to decrease its timings, but I doubt En wants to go that in-depth with it. Error testing is a pain too.

I was planning to do it, then deemed the effort to decrease the latency from 10ns to maybe 8 was not worth the result.




edit2: Actually, a nice budget cooler with pretty good performance would be the Cogage TRUE Spirit 1366

[Kraco]

Well, I'm running my memory at that 1333 but with lowered timings. Actually my first 4 GB is HQ ram that I could never put to the optimal use even if I wanted with the kind of budget I typically use in hardware, my second set of 4 GB is only semi-HQ and works fine with lowered CASes. I could probably lower them even further but haven't bothered. My video card is so lousy it will hamper performance much sooner and I barely do any other processing heavy stuff than gaming on regular basis.

[Buffalobiian]

Well, I'm running my memory at that 1333 but with lowered timings.

If the windows performance index has any degree of accuracy or relevance, my standard speed RAM is nothing to worry about.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9463/unledia.jpg

Did your lowered timings reflect in the score Kraco?

[Kraco]

Probably not... My memory score is the exact same with yours. Although I never checked the results with higher timings. The dude at the shop where I buy most of my hardware didn't believe in it making much difference either, but for some reason I like lower CAS settings, believing against reality that they make a real difference. And nothing can shake that belief!

[Animeniax]

Basing your experience on your disk data transfer rate is silly. My WEI would be 7.9 without the HDD data rate, but it's only 5.2 with it.

[Buffalobiian]

Basing your experience on your disk data transfer rate is silly. My WEI would be 7.9 without the HDD data rate, but it's only 5.2 with it.

Indeed, the overall score is silly. I only use the subscores.

And even then, only for kicks and not as an indicator for programs to run and stuff. Maybe if more programs picked this up it would have meaning, but it's pretty arbitrary at the moment.