Customized computer?

[Board of Command]

E6300 @ 3.2 GHz
Radeon Mobile HD3850 @ 750/925
8.44 RC3 driver (unreleased to public :))

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8320/750e92532ghzqt4.png

Woot...? I dunno...

[darkshadow]

holy crap, im definitly getting that 3870 x2 now, and WHEN are the official 7.11's gonna be out BoC? im getting a bit pissed here

[Board of Command]

If I'm not mistaken, 7.11 is being posted on Wednesday. Driver version should be 8.432 RC2.

One thing I should warn you about though: 8.432 had some stability issues with my card in 3DMark06, FEAR, Gears of War and possibly some other titles. It might just be a problem of compatibility with my card instead of driver instabilities though, since I'm using a bring-up card (a.k.a. prototype) instead of the retail HD3850.

[LaZie]

I have a question. For some people who lap their heatsinks for better performance, which type of sand paper do you use?

[Board of Command]

Automotive waterproof sandpaper. Grits you want to use are 400, 600, 800, 1200, and maybe 1600.

[mage]

up to 2000 if you want that mirror finish :)

[Animeniax]

I've read benefits from lapping are negligible. Is it even worth doing unless you're seriously overclocking? At that point shouldn't you just get a water-cooling system? Though I suppose you could lap the water blocks as well.

[Board of Command]

Lapping is to get rid of unflat surfaces. It doesn't really help if your heatsink base is already flat and smooth.

And by smooth, I don't mean a mirror finish.

[Kraco]

I was already wondering why making a flat surface nonflat would help as it did sound totally opposite to what I've been used to hearing, but when you say it's to make a poorly finished product good, then it certainly makes sense.

[Animeniax]

Isn't that the purpose of thermal transfer material like arctic silver? It fills in the imperfections of the heatsink base to provide both maximum contact and heat transfer.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought it was always necessary to use either thermal paste or thermal strip when attaching a heat sink.

[Kraco]

Well, the thermal transfer material layer should be as thin as possible yet still perfect so it makes sense, at least on paper, to have totally smooth and level surfaces to minimize the thickness needed.

[Board of Command]

The purpose of thermal paste is to fill the microscopic gaps between the two metal parts and nothing else. It has lower thermal conductivity than metal-to-metal contact, but many times better than metal-to-air-to-metal (i.e. air gaps). That's why you want as little thermal paste as possible.


I thought it was always necessary to use either thermal paste or thermal strip when attaching a heat sink.
In a perfect world, you wouldn't need thermal paste. Try running your CPU without any thermal paste. The result won't be nearly as bad as you might expect.

[Animeniax]

Really you only need to lap if the surface is very uneven (relatively speaking) like on some Thermaltake heatsinks. Otherwise the thermal paste will fill in any small gaps created by imperfectly flat surfaces.

[Phoenix20578]

Generally it is a good idea to use thermal paste thou. When I was a tech and the custom people came in saying the the board kept shutting down, it was usually because the CPU was overheating, mostly from lack of thermal paste to help the heat transfer to the heatsink.

[Board of Command]

That's probably due to crappy heatsinks, not thermal paste. Instances where there's a "lack of thermal paste" are extremely rare.

[itadakimasu]

why does the amd x2 6400+ not come w\ a heat sink?

because it runs around 70-75 celcius w\ stock heat sink + arctic silver!!! i felt a hot draft last night emitting from under my desk and my poor system had a fever :( going to try to find a good cooler today.

[Board of Command]

why does the amd x2 6400+ not come w\ a heat sink?
What are you talking about? It does.

[itadakimasu]

no... it comes retail box like my 4800 did but there is just the processor and warranty info, no heat sink. Anyhow... part of my problem is having my computer in my desk and suffucating it but even after pulling it out last night it was running @ 50-55 :(

I have a thermaltake cooler but i couldn't snap it on w\ the mobo in the case and i just used it on another system i built this weekend so i will have to find another cooler or maybe just get better air flow in my case.

[Board of Command]

A brand new retail version? Not second hand? Because all retail processors come with heatsinks.

[itadakimasu]

6400+ black edition from newegg... its got the retail box but no heatsink.

* http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103191 *

I re-enabled cool n quiet which brought temps down to 26-32 range, but i have a feeling that temps will jump back up when i get 2 hours into a team fortress 2 session.

[Board of Command]

Hmm...interesting. That's the first retail box processor I've seen that doesn't come with a heatsink.

[darkshadow]

boc i have a question thats been bothering me for awhile.
How does that 3870x2 work? i mean its a dual gpu card but linked via crossfire, does that mean you still need to enable crossfire in CCC to actually use the second gpu? or are they always fully blasting at x2?

I need to know this since crossfire is incompatible with dual screen setups.

[Board of Command]

When I installed the driver, Crossfire was enabled by default in CCC. I'm not sure if disabling it will really disable one GPU.

However...the card does have 2 DVI outputs, so I'd imagine dual monitor works even with Crossfire enabled. I'll try to test it for you next week.

[Phoenix20578]

Heh, it finnally happened. My 500 GB of harddrive power went after 4 years. For a Custom, it had a good run. I've decided instead of replacing the drives, I'm gonna run from my laptop for a while and build a brand new system, since its overdue. Heres what I'm planning so far:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Windsor
ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
GeForce 8600GT 512MB 128-bit, PCI Express x16
Patriot Extreme Performance Ram 2GB DDR2 800 (2 Sticks)
Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB 7200 RPM SATA
ASUS 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe

As for the Case:
Thermaltake Armor Series VA8000BWS Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower
Just to make sure it doesnt overheat.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[darkshadow]

im not a fan of amd cpu systems, or nvidia systems for that matter, but if you are going for a 8600, got for the GTS, not the GT, since it sucks >_>

[Board of Command]

DS, I checked out the 3870 X2 today and found that CCC doesn't have the Crossfire tab. I guess I remembered wrong... Crossfire is always enabled. I didn't get a chance to actually test dual monitors, but I would assume it works.

[darkshadow]

thats pretty damn awesome news, that means i can have dual monitors with crossfire perfomance, wicked.

also, my mobo supposedly supports ati physics, having a third pci-e slot and all ( rd600 chipset).
does ati still support this? would it mean that if i got the 3870x2, i could stick my x1950pro in the third slot to handle physics?

[itadakimasu]

phoenix, That sounds good...

I just got a 6400+ a couple of weeks ago, did not realize that it is either 125 or 135 watts compared to my 65 watt X2 4800+ it replaced... It was running a little over 70 celcius before i pulled up mobo utility to check how hot it was.

My next upgrade aside from a good heatsink is going to be a better motherbaord... i'm running on a decent gigabyte -s2 series board w\ 4gb (4 x 1gb) Xtreme Patriot -800, a X1950 XT, and I really need to clean up my hard drives ( 2x 250, 1x 200) and have it in a Gigabyte Poseidon full case w\ ePower 520 watt psu.

[Board of Command]

thats pretty damn awesome news, that means i can have dual monitors with crossfire perfomance, wicked.

also, my mobo supposedly supports ati physics, having a third pci-e slot and all ( rd600 chipset).
does ati still support this? would it mean that if i got the 3870x2, i could stick my x1950pro in the third slot to handle physics?
Sorry for the late response.

I have no idea.

[Phoenix20578]

My next upgrade aside from a good heatsink is going to be a better motherbaord... i'm running on a decent gigabyte -s2 series board w\ 4gb (4 x 1gb) Xtreme Patriot -800, a X1950 XT, and I really need to clean up my hard drives ( 2x 250, 1x 200) and have it in a Gigabyte Poseidon full case w\ ePower 520 watt psu.

Gigabyte makes horrible boards. They tend not to last long, thou they might have fixed that issue since I last dealt with them. I tend to stick with Asus for boards. I've been using them for so long they got my brand loyalty. I will always recommend an Asus board to replace another brand. Just make sure that the new board you get is compatible with the RAM you have.

As for the harddrives, you might want to switch into SATA if you havent already. The new SATA WD's arent bad on the pocket, and run well.

[Buffalobiian]

Gigabyte makes horrible boards. They tend not to last long, thou they might have fixed that issue since I last dealt with them. I tend to stick with Asus for boards. I've been using them for so long they got my brand loyalty. I will always recommend an Asus board to replace another brand. Just make sure that the new board you get is compatible with the RAM you have.

As for the harddrives, you might want to switch into SATA if you havent already. The new SATA WD's arent bad on the pocket, and run well.

Hmmm??? I've been told that Gigabyte motherboards last longer and that Asus boards get higher performance because they often overclock their stuff and hence don't last that long. This was a friend's opinion in 2006 though, so I wouldn't say it's a very technical source, though he does know much on the topic. When was the last time you last dealth with them Pheonix? Just wanting to know the dates of our opinions.

Maybe it's a back and forth thing. A few years ago, AMD X2s were owning Pentium Ds in things like power consumption and performance on par, and a similar thing was happening in the single core market (save for video encoding performance, P4s always kicked in that one). When C2D came though, the tables turned, for now at least. It might be a bad comparison though, since the former was more of a quality issue, and the later more a technology/performance one.

btw, all our computers at home have Gigabyte boards and graphics. I'll let you know if my samples end up being unreliable. :)

[darkshadow]

lol gigabyte, asus, msi, rofl
just get DFI and love it ;P

[Phoenix20578]

Hmmm??? I've been told that Gigabyte motherboards last longer and that Asus boards get higher performance because they often overclock their stuff and hence don't last that long. This was a friend's opinion in 2006 though, so I wouldn't say it's a very technical source, though he does know much on the topic. When was the last time you last dealth with them Phoenix? Just wanting to know the dates of our opinions.


The last time I dealt with Gigabyte boards was when I was still a Tech back in early to mid '06. They tended to have issues like the socket for the possessor not responding, or the PCI's not working out of no where, or the memory slots burning out. Before I left, the store I worked at refused to carry them, beside special order, because we go so many complaints about them. Like I said before, I have no clue if they fixed the issues the boards had in the past 2 years or so because after dealing with so many bad ones, I refuse to use them. I guess its more of an opinion thing than anything else. As for Asus, the boards do tend to have overheating issues when the memory and possessors get over-clocked, hence whythey sometimes dont last long. Quick fix for that is a well ventilated case, so if your ballzy enough to overclock you hardware, you should be smart enough to get a well ventilated case so it doesnt burn out. I havent changed my Asus board in 4 years since I got it. The only reason the system crapped out was because my HD's went bad and stopped reading.

BTW, were the italics really that necessary?

[Buffalobiian]

BTW, were the italics really that necessary?

lol, no, just something I did on the fly. I'd imagine both manufacturers have similar warranty periods. Where does this overheating occur usually? Nth bridge? My brother fried his motherboard once. Apparently from "resetting too much." I'm thinking it's more the overheating that resulted in his resetting.

[itadakimasu]

got a zalman cnps9500 today, dropped my cpus max load temp to around 40c from 60+c w\ stock amd cooling. Woot...

also, ordered dvi to hdmi cord so i can hook up to the huge 50'' i bought a few days ago to go into my new apartment!

[Board of Command]

lol gigabyte, asus, msi, rofl
just get DFI and love it ;P
DFI doesn't have enough selection. It's either $250 or nothing. They had plenty of selection back in the nForce4 days (I had an Ultra-D) but I don't know what happened to them. Now they're only selling one product at a time...

I use an Asus P5K-E right now and it's definitely a more user-friendly board than the Gigabyte 965P-DS3 I had 3 months ago. A lot of people recommend the DS3L right now, but I say stay away from Gigabyte if you can buy Asus or Abit at a similar price. It's a newer product than my DS3 but it's still based on the same reference design and the BIOS still works the same way...which is a bad thing.

[darkshadow]

DFI is def cheaper then you think, the LP UT ICFX3200-T2R i have is now only 140$ on newegg, and the newest p35 version of that one is now 200$.

Oh and about physics, someone on another forum told me its possible to use any x1000 card and up for physics calculations, even if the gfx card is different, which rox ofcourse.

[itadakimasu]

I put together a system a couple weeks ago and put a 2600 XT in it, when i loaded all the drivers i saw it installing audio drivers too... i sold that computer, but now that i'm about to have my computer hooked up w\ my tv (50'' sony grand-wega) wondering if it is possible to push audio through the video card via DVI to HDMI cable?

[Board of Command]

Yes, they have an audio processor onboard for HDMI output.

[itadakimasu]

i got it hooked up w\ rca audio and it works fine... but i only have one hdmi port on my tv so i have to choose between computer or dvd player... errrg

[Board of Command]

Go for HDMI through computer. HDMI with a DVD player is pointless since it's only playing low resolution videos, even if you're upscaling.

[Animeniax]

Is SLI really worth it? I have an 8800GTX superclocked in my system, and was wondering if it would be worth it to get another for SLI. I play all the big titles on high settings and 1680x1050 resolution and it's amazing. How much better would it be with SLI?

[darkshadow]

SLI and Xfire are a waste of money

[itadakimasu]

The current setup ;)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/resized.jpg

took the picture while testing the netflix online option...its good but they need a better selection that you can play instantly. One drawback... i found it very hard to play TF2 on a 50'' lcd

[Phoenix20578]

The current setup ;)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/resized.jpg

took the picture while testing the netflix online option...its good but they need a better selection that you can play instantly. One drawback... i found it very hard to play TF2 on a 50'' lcd

Hey...that desk on the left....I couldve sworn I threw it out a few months ago.....

Nice setup dude. I'm hoping to have the same S-video layout when I get a nicer TV :(

[itadakimasu]

www.newegg.com

amd x2 6400+ = $149.99 promo code : emcacafbj

thought i'd share... i bought mine for $179.99 and thought that was a good deal.

[Phoenix20578]

Yea, I got the e-mail also. That is a great deal. The board they show with it isnt bad ether. Here it is for all of you not on the Newegg mail list.

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Feb-0-2008/Promo020508in/images/banner_04.jpg
http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Feb-0-2008/Promo020508in/images/banner_05.jpg

[Board of Command]

If you're getting a motherboard, then you're probably building a new system. If you're building a new system, then you should be looking at Intel, not AMD.

[itadakimasu]

maybe my next system will be intel... don't think im going to build another for a while though... idk.

unless DDR3 drops in price or I start making alot more money. I barely even game anymore though... mostly am just using my computer as media center.

[David75]

maybe my next system will be intel... don't think im going to build another for a while though... idk.

unless DDR3 drops in price or I start making alot more money. I barely even game anymore though... mostly am just using my computer as media center.

I guess DDR3 will be interresting in only about a year. Then in about 2 they'll be announcing something new again...

So I'd stick with high quality DDR2 instead.

As for the CPU, it seems intel outpaced AMD, this will be for a while. Hope AMD will recover from this so that Intel doesn't trusts all of the consumer market...

As of yet I'd choose an E8500 that seems to accept neat and easy overclocking with a good heatsink. That would be a "reasonable choice" in terms of price/performance ratio.
A quad, except a Q6600 would be to pricey I think. But since I never play the newest games, I guess my choice is not neutral, the quad would not be useful for me.
There's another reason I would go to the E8500: its power consumption/performance ratio is one of the best (perhaps the best?) and performance are very good. That means it's possible to have a very good AND very quiet rig which is also one of my targets.

The thing with AMD having their phenom line being a huge mistake is that intel will not rush into having their prices drop... that's not good news.
However they may not delay any new processor, because that would further extend their domination over AMD.
AMD is in a very bad position I fear.

[Killa-Eyez]

Baught me an Acer Aspire 5920 a week ago for 580,-. Baught me another one with different specs for 600,- yesterday. Swapped some hardware around. Now my specs are:


Intel Core 2 Duo T7700 @ 2.4 Ghz
15.4" WXGA Acer CrystalBrite LCD (8ms/220-nit)
Up to 1024 MB Nvidia GeForce 8600m GS TurboCache
3 GB DDR2
320 GB HDD
DVD-Super Multi DL
802.11a/b/g WLAN
1 GB of Intel Turbo Memory
Realtek High Definition Audio Device
IR Port
4 USB 2.0 ports, VGA, S-Video, HDMI, 1394 and Line-In/Mic/Headphone jacks.
Ricoh 5 in 1 Cardreader


The other specs:


Intel Core 2 Duo T7500 @ 2.2 Ghz
15.4" WXGA Acer CrystalBrite LCD (8ms/220-nit)
Up to 358 MB Intel Graphics Media Accelerator X3100
2GB DDR2
250 GB HDD
DVD-Super Multi DL
802.11a/b/g WLAN
Realtek High Definition Audio Device
IR Port
4 USB 2.0 ports, VGA, S-Video, 1394 and Line-In/Mic/Headphone jacks.
Ricoh 5 in 1 Cardreader


Gonna sell the latter for 580,- to a friend, if not, post it on the internet for € 700,-.
Am searching for an internal bluetooth module for my laptop though, anyone?

[Buffalobiian]

Geforce releases their first 9th Generation card: 9600GT
Core Clock (MHz) Shader Clock (MHz) Memory Clock (MHz) Memory Amount Memory Interface Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec) Texture Fill Rate

9600 GT 650 1625 900 512MB 256-bit 57.6 20.8

8800 GT 600 1500 900 512MB 256-bit 57.6 33.6

8800 GTS 650 1625 1000 512MB 256-bit 64 41.6

Stream processors are for 9600GT,8800GT and 8800GTS are 64,112,128 respectively.
Prices in AUD in order are around $200~250, $320~370 and $420~450.

Basically speaking, compared to the 9600, 8800GT has almost twice the stream proccessors, lower core and mem clock and a tad higher texture fill rate, for the cost of 100 dollars more(50%).

8800GTS, twice the streams, twice the fill rate, twice the price.

Nvidia says the 9600's the best bang for the buck, what do you think?

[Board of Command]

8800GT is still the best value by far. I don't know where you got those prices from, but in Canada, a decent 8800GT is only around $25 more than a 9600GT.

[Buffalobiian]

It's the price for a SPARKLE 8800GT COOLPIPE 3 512meg GDDR3 PCI-E 2.0 Model: SF-PX88GT512D3-HP Cool-pipe 3. I didn't expect a silent one to cost so much. Other models are like $260.

[Buffalobiian]

So they bring out a 9600GT that's a bit cheaper than the 8800GT, but also a bit less powerful for the middle range market.

And then, you have this (http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_9800gx2.html) for USD599

And to compare everything, link (http://www.nvidia.com/object/graphics_cards_buy_now.html)

[Board of Command]

9600GT is old news. It's a decent buy if you can get it for significantly cheaper than the 8800GT. Otherwise, 8800GT is still the best value out there.

[Buffalobiian]

what about the 9800GT2? That looked really good, but probably also really expensive. I haven't found anyone selling it in Australia yet to see exactly how much.

btw, are Quadro FX ones good for games? I don't know what's different between those and GeForce 8XXX ones besides what they say they're for.

[complich8]

QuadroFX cards are "workstation" cards. You can play games on them, but they're really not great at it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadro_FX#GeForce).

Basically they've got the same core as a comparable geforce, for a higher price, with a different firmware version that'll make gaming worse.

[Board of Command]

QuadroFX cards are "workstation" cards. You can play games on them, but they're really not great at it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadro_FX#GeForce).

Basically they've got the same core as a comparable geforce, for a higher price, with a different firmware version that'll make gaming worse.
I think it's more of a driver thing for workstation cards. There's only so much you can do with the vBIOS using the same core while still maximizing performance in one way or another.

[itadakimasu]

I ordered 2 150gb Raptor X's yesterday. Going to set them up in raid-0 and install Vista Ultimate x64 when i get them. I want to do a couple other upgrades but $350 is alot of money for one upgrade since i just put a 6400+ in not too long ago.

I was considering getting the new phenom 9850 and 2gb ddr3 ram (129 on newegg) but.... 350 is enough for this week.

[Board of Command]

Why Raptor X? Why not the cheaper one that doesn't have a window?

[itadakimasu]

i dunno...the raptor x looks more beasty and was 173 instead of $170 for the regular one.

anyhow.... i went to do my setup this weekend and it was complete failure.> I wanted to set the raptors up in a raid-0 array and put vista ultimate x64 on it...

one of the install disks i have will let me load the drivers i have and it shows the raid array, but then it wont let me make a new partition or format the array or install to it...

the other install disk i have will not even let me load up the driver and gives me an error that it can only use microsoft signed drivers and thats its..

i ended up installing ultimate x64 on just one of the raptors since it would not install on the raid array which is the whole point of having bought 2 of them. any help would be appreciated. My mobo is a gigabyte ga-ma69vm-s2.

[Board of Command]

What's the difference between your two disks?

[itadakimasu]

they are both the same... brand new 150gb Raptor X.

IDK if it has anything to do w\ the installation media I was using or my hardware....

i mean, with one disk that i had it would let the driver load and show the raid array as a 298gb disk but then it would not let me create a partition, format, or install.

I went into diskpart by pushing shift+f10 at that point and diskpart : list disk shows all the disks and it was showing the raid array as having 0 free space until i ran the clean command and then it showed 298gb free like it should if it has nothing on it. still nothing

the other disk i had gave me an error about needing signed drivers when i try to load the raid driver.... and thats it.

I'm up and running now.... but i wanted to have the 2 raptors in raid :( i guess I will wait but i'm going to keep them like they are for now.

[Board of Command]

I went into diskpart by pushing shift+f10 at that point and diskpart : list disk shows all the disks and it was showing the raid array as having 0 free space until i ran the clean command and then it showed 298gb free like it should if it has nothing on it. still nothing
You can run clean to make it show 298 GB, so what's the problem? Does it show up as one disk or two disks? Here's (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300415) a Microsoft article on diskpart and it has a command regarding striped volumes. Maybe that's what you need to do?

Also, after you make your volumes (if you can), did you mark the active one?

[itadakimasu]

thanks, that gave me an idea...

i failed to realize that both disks needed to be dynamic. I will reformat both and then try again...

That idea didnt work... I made both disks dynamic, reconfigured the raid and tried installing again on the raid array....didn't work. When i tried to use diskpart to make the disks dynamic since it said they weren't, it errored out. So i reinstalled on just one disk....

and now a new problem has become clear. I'm running directx 10.... but my x1950xt does not suppot directx 10. I cant run the system assessment vista does because as soon as it tries to test the direct3d, it locks up. as it even locked up on me when i tried to read this weeks bleach chapter...

I tried installing directx 9c but it didn't make a difference. I have fully updated and its still not working. This may force me to buy a 3870.

[itadakimasu]

ok.. so i bought an HD3870 by Diamond 512 GDDR4 core clock @ 775 memory @ 1250 i think...

Got it over-nighted from newegg for $201... cheaper then any stores i could have bought it at !

anyhow... loaded it during my lunch break and it still froze up during the windows performance index.... aero is not enabled and the card shows up as "R670" instead of 3870.

I will have to wait until I have some time and see if there is a new driver for it. It does let me play videos though and hopefully will run everything else fine.

[Board of Command]

That's really odd. You don't need a DX10 card to run the Vista performance test. Did you install the latest DirectX redistributable?

[itadakimasu]

i installed the latest everything, directx10, 2 day old ati driver for the card, vista x64 sp1...

the 3870 still crashes when vista runs the aero test. I've decided to just revert to 32 bit vista for the time being

[Board of Command]

Things just never work out for you, do they?

[Sapphire]

Hello there,

Can someone recommend me a good quality mouse that isn't too expensive?

Gratzi

[Buffalobiian]

What kind of surface are you using it on? Optic mice will work fine on pretty much any surface, except really shiny ones (metal bench etc), or transparent/layered ones, like glass or a table with a clear plastic protector. For those, you'd want a laser or the pointer may drift randomly sometimes. One of the computers at home uses Logitech's cheapest optical mouse (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/344&cl=au,en), and it works just fine. So if you're looking for simply a mouse, and a cheap one, that's one right there. (that was $30AUD).

If you wanted something a bit more flashy, but still affordable, you have the wireless mice and the wireless/wired ones with forward/back/search functions. Those are generally 50-80AUD.

[Kraco]

I have never had any bad experiences with Logitech mice. They are a sure bet.

But considering how much a mouse is used and it's still intended, or at least I think so, to last for a long time, it might not be worth it to try to save every dollar. Get a good middle price model and when you are still happy with it a few years from now, the price paid won't feel like much anymore.

I personally wouldn't get the cheapest, simplest model for my primary use. For a secondary computer, sure.

[Animeniax]

This is probably your best bet:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104178

[Sapphire]

Okay - I'll prolly end up getting Ani's mouse. Thanks everyone

[Animeniax]

I think BoC has the same mouse too. It's only possible fault is the price of $40, but it's well worth it.

[Buffalobiian]

I have never had any bad experiences with Logitech mice. They are a sure bet.

But considering how much a mouse is used and it's still intended, or at least I think so, to last for a long time, it might not be worth it to try to save every dollar. Get a good middle price model and when you are still happy with it a few years from now, the price paid won't feel like much anymore.

I personally wouldn't get the cheapest, simplest model for my primary use. For a secondary computer, sure.

That's true. I was working with the "money saving" idea the whole time. I'm not sure if I'd ever get a standard mouse for my computer again though. Forward/Back buttons are very addictive. (especially the back one)

A new mouse can take some getting used to. It took me a good month or two last time I swapped. If you want to ever challenge yourself at something new, this would probably do ya. (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/3443&cl=au,en)

[Animeniax]

Multiple button mice are excellent for gaming too. I hate pressing keys to reload, melee, etc, they work so much better as mouse clicks. Mapping those forward and back page buttons make gaming so much more fluid.

[complich8]

I'm a big fan of tilt-wheel mice (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010290065+1083807069&Configurator=&Subcategory=65), personally.

I've had generally good results with microsoft mice, and logitech tends to be pretty good too.

But if you're an fps'er, high-res gamer-mice like that are good, too...

[Board of Command]

I think BoC has the same mouse too. It's only possible fault is the price of $40, but it's well worth it.
I got my MX518 for only $25 CAD.

I'd recommend the G5 v2 (blue version) if it's in the neighborhood of $30.

However, the MX500/510/518/G5 are all "large" mice. If you want a smaller mouse (since...you're a girl), the VX Revolution is a great wireless mouse if the price is right. I got mine on sale for $35 a year ago. I'm sure you'd be able to find similar deals in the states.

[Animeniax]

I got my MX518 for only $25 CAD.
Unfortunately I have few options when it comes to ordering and shipping overseas, so I can't find the best prices. It's usually Newegg or Tigerdirect for me.

I don't know how people use those tiny mice. I don't have big hands, but they tend to cramp up when using small travel-size or laptop-size mice.

[Board of Command]

Unfortunately I have few options when it comes to ordering and shipping overseas, so I can't find the best prices. It's usually Newegg or Tigerdirect for me.

I don't know how people use those tiny mice. I don't have big hands, but they tend to cramp up when using small travel-size or laptop-size mice.
I have a friend who uses a tiny mouse.

http://jamesthevicar.com/images/jpg/tiny-mouse.jpg

About that big. It's the width of two fingers.

[Animeniax]

I have a friend who uses a tiny mouse.

http://jamesthevicar.com/images/jpg/tiny-mouse.jpg

About that big. It's the width of two fingers.
I'd like to see him compete on CSS with that mouse :o .

[Board of Command]

It's actually a girl so maybe that helps to explain the dinky mouse.

Or actually, no. Nothing can justify that.

[Animeniax]

It's actually a girl so maybe that helps to explain the dinky mouse.

Or actually, no. Nothing can justify that.
I got confused by the site name "jamesthevicar" so I figured it was a guy. Didn't realize it's probably just a stock photo you were using as an example. My bad.

Girl hands cramp up and get carpal tunnel syndrome a lot easier than man hands, so using a mini mouse like that, while cute, will end up giving her hand problems.

[Board of Command]

Yeah that was just a picture I Googled up.

I've tried using that mouse a few times and it's a huge pain even without getting carpal tunnel.

[Dark Dragon]

Circuit City recently had a sale on various mouses.

The G7 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104203) was on sale for 25$ and the G5 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104076) for 20$.

If you want a really good gaming mouse and do not mind using a wired one then the Copperhead (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153003)is priced at 25$.

The main problem is finding them, it look me about 3 days of searching various Circuit City in town to find my G7.

edit: my mistake on the pricing, according to my receipt the G7 was 30$ but that's still much cheaper than the standard prices.

[Animeniax]

So for the cost of gas and wear and tear on your car, was it more expensive trying to find this G7 at Circuit City than if you just bought it at normal price at Best Buy?

[Dark Dragon]

uh considering that it took me about 30 minute to get to the different locations and the fact that my car has pretty good mileage the answer would have to be yes.

edit: and beside, i manage to find 2 copperheads and another G7 for my friends so it's not like i drove around just to buy 1 mouse.

[Animeniax]

I wasn't making fun. I've been guilty plenty of times of trying to save $5-10 on the price of something, but spent more than that in gas, time, and effort trying to locate the item for the lower price. Plus, I'll wait and wait before buying something to save $10, but I've wasted thousands of dollars on other crap that I could have saved. Something in my mindset makes me live that way.

Case in point, I spent $550 on a 7800GTX that I used for 4 months before I let my PC sit for 8 months unused. Meanwhile I waited 2 months to buy a memory stick for my PSP while I waited for the price to drop $5.

[Kraco]

I might need to go mouse shopping, myself, sooner or later. My trusty old Logitech Dual Optical, which has served me valiantly for years, is not only getting weary but sometimes the pointer suddenly jumps to a random direction without warning. It's especially annoying in Photoshop, I can tell you. No amount of opening the mouse and cleaning it meticulously helped to remove the problem.

Too bad mice seem to be 50% more expensive here than in the USA. (But so is everything else, so it's not really any surprise...)

[Buffalobiian]

My mouse only has a search button, but I didn't bother installing drivers for it, so windows treats it as a back button. Much more handy than the search function IMO. I think we've got a relatively low variety of mice here in Australia. They probably only sell half the stuff you guys might get in the US or elsewhere. It's also actually hard to find a decent wired mouse. The shops usually either sell really cheap generic ones, or jump straight to wireless and work from there. How reliable are wireless mice? I've never had one, and I don't know if I'll ever need one, so I just bought wired versions for simplicity's sake.

[Kraco]

It's kind of strange, in my opinion, that the prices of the cordless mice are getting down so much that they can be even cheaper than the old fashioned mice with tails. I'm still pretty much only looking at corded ones, though, at least initially. I don't trust the cordless ones, plus a mouse having a cord has never bothered me in the slightest. However, I'm thinking of visiting a few shops and stores, hoping they will have mice on display so that I could feel how they fit my hand. If they happen to have the cordless variety as well, I might check them out as well. I guess they must have developed a lot in half a decade, anyway...

[Dark Dragon]

@Animeniax

I know what you mean since i've done that myself but in this particular case it was a good deal since the mouses were at 40% of the original price. Plus it's nice to know in case you go to a Circuit city by chance so you can head on over to the mouse area and maybe get lucky and save some cash.

@Buffalobiian

Wireless mouses are usually pretty decent for regular usage but if you want precision for things such as playing FPS or doing art work on the comp then i wouldn't recommend it. The high end wireless like the G7 is quite good but in the end having a high end wired mouses is much better for that kind of things if you want perfect precision.

[Board of Command]

Well speaking of customizations, here's my latest creation:

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5659/bm4dualfansxd4.th.jpg (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bm4dualfansxd4.jpg)

Basically a pair of desk fans made from 120mm fans powered by a 6V adapter.

[Animeniax]

How many CFMs is that desk fan pushing? At what dB level?

[Kraco]

Yeah. I don't think I'll be selling my 13" desk fan anytime soon to replace it with a pair of 120mm computer case fans...

[Animeniax]

Even if the casefan fan has a superior cfm to dB ratio?? It's Earth Day today. You should do your part by converting to the energy efficient casefan fan, and ditch that old energy-guzzling desk fan.

[Board of Command]

How many CFMs is that desk fan pushing? At what dB level?
http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T073/SectL.pdf

They're not commercial computer fans. Based on this data sheet here, my fans are rated at 115 CFM and 41.5 dBA. That's running at full speed though, which is 12V @ 0.72A. My adapter is only supplying 6V @ 0.175 A to each fan, so they're running well below nominal specs. They're still quite loud though. Each fan pushes more air than a typical 120mm computer fan running at full blast. These fans aren't designed for quietness because they're industrial grade stuff that's not meant to be put into a computer case.

Part number 4710KL-04W-B50.

[Animeniax]

Dang, 41.5dB each at max load.

I plan to install a PS2 into the rolling drawer chest under my office desk. I could install some fans into the chest to keep the setup cool while completely concealed. I'd definitely use quieter fans though, to keep it on the down low.

[Kraco]

Well, well. After much pondering I ended up buying MX518. I was about to buy Razer Deathadder, which seemed like a miracle mouse under 50 euros, but after deeper research in the web wonderland I found out it's only a miracle mouse as long as you keep the dpi setting at max (1800). Lower it and it becomes "a piece of shit" like an endless cadre of people colourfully described it in various places. I didn't need a mouse with adjustable sensitivity that you can't adjust without rendering the mouse from great to poor, so I decided to buy this 3 years old thing that apparently has no such grand flaws unless you happen to be one of those unlucky bastards that have a mobo incompatible with it and are thus screwed for life (the life of the mobo anyway).

Now I pray I'll never see the symptoms those people kept describing...

[Board of Command]

I always keep my MX518 at 800 DPI.

[Animeniax]

I don't even install the setpoint software, so mine's at whatever is default dpi.

edit: oh weird, you don't need the setpoint software to change the dpi setting. I think mine's on 800.

edit 2: does anyone else think using the dpi change feature in FPSes is a form of cheating, or at least a somewhat cheap tactic?

[Kraco]

I ended up setting mine at 800 as well. Though I played around with it and the Windows settings a bit for a while. I think I adjusted the couple of games I tested also with the 800 dpi in use. Needless to say I was also very relieved those two games recognized the thumb buttons right away. That's always a big question mark.

I didn't install the Logitech drivers, either. Logitech software is always bloated and buggy so if it can be avoided at all, it's better to never install it. This truth hasn't changed for great many years. And I doubt changing the name from Mouseware to Setpoint changed anything.

[IFHTT]

I initially installed the setpoint software when I got my mx revolution to change the function of the search button ... I accidentally clicked it alot at first and got annoyed when the Windows search window came up while I was in the middle of doing stuff. But other than that I don't really have much use for it...

I've never even thought about changing the dpi, but I can't find the setting in setpoint, anyone care to elaborate where to do so?

Edit: Or is it the same dpi setting found in Display Properties > Settings > Advanced?

[Board of Command]

I've never even thought about changing the dpi, but I can't find the setting in setpoint, anyone care to elaborate where to do so?

Edit: Or is it the same dpi setting found in Display Properties > Settings > Advanced?
MX Revolution can't change DPI.

[IFHTT]

MX Revolution can't change DPI.
I see... Well thats, uh... pretty lame :(...

But I see that it defaults at 800, so I guess thats alright.. :/

[Animeniax]

It's not all that it's cracked up to be. As you see, most of us leave it at default 800 most of the time anyway. You get the same effect by changing mouse sensitivity in Windows, just you can't do it on the fly in games. But it's basically cheating anyway, so better not to do it.

[Board of Command]

Only the idiots who buy into all the marketing BS rave about super high DPI, like 3000+. Back in the day when the MX500 was the latest and greatest mouse in the world, nobody had problems with the 800 DPI sensor. It was enough resolution for everyone. In contrary to popular belief, shooter games were just as popular 5 years ago as they are today. On another forum I frequent, someone said something along the lines of, "You know why that guy just headshot you? Because he had a better mouse." Complete bullshit. Back in the day of Counterstrike, people were getting headshots with ball mice.

For all practical purposes, it's the quality of the sensor that matters, not the scanning resolution. It's the same reason why some digital cameras with huge resolution (7+ MP) are sold for dirt cheap, while other models with seemingly comparable specs are much more expensive.

[IFHTT]

Only the idiots who buy into all the marketing BS rave about super high DPI, like 3000+. Back in the day when the MX500 was the latest and greatest mouse in the world, nobody had problems with the 800 DPI sensor. It was enough resolution for everyone. In contrary to popular belief, shooter games were just as popular 5 years ago as they are today. On another forum I frequent, someone said something along the lines of, "You know why that guy just headshot you? Because he had a better mouse." Complete bullshit. Back in the day of Counterstrike, people were getting headshots with ball mice.

For all practical purposes, it's the quality of the sensor that matters, not the scanning resolution. It's the same reason why some digital cameras with huge resolution (7+ MP) are sold for dirt cheap, while other models with seemingly comparable specs are much more expensive.

Yeah I see what you're getting at, I was just kind of put off that for the price of the mouse, It doesn't give me the most functionality they could have... I'm not that worried about the whole dpi issue. Infact I'd have been none the wiser had I not read about you guys changing it on your mice... All in all I still love the mouse, and now I can just rid myself of the setpoint software altogether.

[Board of Command]

The whole DPI thing is a marketing gimmick for "gaming" products. The MX Revolution is a "professional" product, so they didn't incorporate that feature. It's still a kickass mouse.

[Kraco]

For all practical purposes, it's the quality of the sensor that matters, not the scanning resolution. It's the same reason why some digital cameras with huge resolution (7+ MP) are sold for dirt cheap, while other models with seemingly comparable specs are much more expensive.

Right now this is actually a problem because according to rigorous tests and hc gamer responses, the laser sensors that offer the highest dpi ratings are performing poorly in everything but dpi (and reading some special surfaces that one person in a thousand ever tries). It seems easy to get high dpi with lasers, so manufacturers are investing in that instead of making the new technology as reliable as the old optical. But on the other hand, I guess it's only a matter of time. Still it's one more reason why not to stare at the dpi at the moment as it doesn't really tell anything about how well the mouse behaves in practice.

Like ESReality said:

Laser vs Optical
In almost every mouse review I've read, the writer makes the automatic assumption that laser mice must be better than optical. I imagine it's down to the perceived firepower of each word. No one ever destroyed an Imperial Cruiser with an LED gun. The performance benchmarks show that todays batch of laser mice can't keep up with the finely tuned optical ones. They do have slightly higher resolution, but not enough to make up for their poor performance at speed.

[Buffalobiian]

So what exactly does "poor performance at speed" mean? I guess that's probably why I suck at close-quarter spraying. I pretty much bought a laser for the sake that it's a laser, much like the above assumption. Though nowadays, a laser mice takes over a large proportion of "higher quality" mice.

[Board of Command]

I'm guessing it means scanning/processing accuracy when you move the mouse really fast. The sensor only governs the input, so if the input resolution is really large then the controller chip might not be able to keep up with rapid movements.

[Kraco]

Yeah. In simple terms every mouse has a cut off upper speed. Up to that speed limit (with no mouse acceleration set; this is an important point) the pointer moves the same distance when the mouse is moved the same distance, no matter how fast the mouse is moved. Laser mice of today still seem to have a lower upper speed than optical mice. So, if in a game you move the mouse fast, the crosshair won't end up where you anticipated it would and you may miss a shot.

Both early optical and laser mice also had inherent acceleration, positive (mouse moves too far when moved fast) or negative (mouse doesn't move as far as you anticipated when moved fast), but that's something decent laser mice aren't anymore suffering of, either. When judging acceleration, it needs to be noticed Windows may set (at least XP does) acceleration by default, so the desktop is no place to judge that. However, good games use or allow direct input for the mouse, and any windows settings won't matter.

Mice are surprisingly complicated things when you dig deep enough... Doh.

[Animeniax]

Which is cooler? The minimalist keyboard:
Das Keyboard II (http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8396/)

or the one with an OLED screen under every key:
Optimus Maximus (http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/)

[Buffalobiian]

I'm going with the Optimus Maximus. Sure, I'll probably never buy it, but it's sure handier than your blank IMO. You can set it blank if you want I think, but being customisable gives it the edge over the Das. Of course, Das has it over Optimus in terms of pricing.

[itadakimasu]

Cooler : optimus maximum... its really cool.> however, $1600 on a keyboard is just lunacy.

Das: more practical.... still wouldn't likely pay $80 for it. Maybe if i find it for $15 on ebay...


The das would be cool for in the office though, it makes me think about the guy at the geek squad who was helping me and my wife.... he was slowly typing w\ his index fingers while looking at the keyboard... geek squad.... pfff, he's a noob.

[Animeniax]

I'd like the Das because you'd learn to be such an amazingly fast typist, plus you could stump all the users who like to stare at your keyboard while you type in your password.

The Optimus is cool, but mostly for show. I think you can even map keys to represent an action in a game, like the space bar would have an image of a jumping figure and the left ctrl would have a crouching figure image in most games. Pretty slick, but since I don't look at the keyboard much ever, it's kind of pointless to me.

Gotta ask, if he was a noob and you're not, why did you require his help?

[Board of Command]

You can make your own Das keyboard using a dremel and sander tip.

[itadakimasu]

Gotta ask, if he was a noob and you're not, why did you require his help?

Wifes laptop overheats and shuts off pretty often... all he did was take some information and then ship it off to somebody who could fix it.

[David75]

For mice:
More resolution would mean more data per second to handle. I guess the electronics in the loop aren't up to the task, be it in the mouse, the usb controller, drivers... anything.

It could also be the laser detector itself, that is to slow.
10 years ago I was playing with a stripped mouse and anlysing the detection with an oscilloscope, while having the inside wheel turning with a dremel. Clearly around 2khz the detection would drop because instead of being a sinuoïd, the signal became flat.

if the detector isn't quick enough, at some point the signal doesn't allow for precise tracking, when the speed increases.

Nobody cared to experiment, but it would be possible to construct a test bench easily to validate the theory with precise accelerations and speed.


Then is the mouse the only thing that matters in shooting games?
It seems that screens, cpu and GPU can add latencies up to 4 to 10 images. Not even counting ping (that may affect the game greatly)

as kraco said, in fact studying mouse problems can be very difficult.

[Board of Command]

It could also be the laser detector itself, that is to slow.
10 years ago I was playing with a stripped mouse and anlysing the detection with an oscilloscope, while having the inside wheel turning with a dremel. Clearly around 2khz the detection would drop because instead of being a sinuoïd, the signal became flat.

if the detector isn't quick enough, at some point the signal doesn't allow for precise tracking, when the speed increases.
You mean at 2 KHz, the mouse is not precise enough to detect the varying signal and just treats it as a constant?

[Animeniax]

You can make your own Das keyboard using a dremel and sander tip.
True, but you can also make your own hamburgers, but people still go to McDonald's.

That said, I'm seriously considering dremeling the labels off the keys on my Logitech media elite keyboard, just to improve my typing skills.

I think the original Das had some other features to make it more elite, like weighted keys or some such. The Das II looks too much like an old IBM keyboard for my tastes. If they could make a sleeker looking keyboard without key labels, I'd buy it.

[Board of Command]

Yeah, it's way too old school for the price.

[Animeniax]

It is a cool idea though. Imagine how much faster you could type if you were forced to learn the positions of the keys and couldn't rely on labels. Even now, I pretty much use only 6 fingers to type, I just type pretty fast with 6 fingers.

[Buffalobiian]

I personally don't think a keyboard like that is really necessary. You can get trained up just as well on a typing program. It might be a slightly different case for me, since when I had Windows 3.1, the only thing that was on it was typing drills, and my parents made me do them like I did homework.

And don't forget FPS where you lost your position on the keys and have to quickly find the knife button. That Das even omits the little raised bumps on the F and J key, doesn't it?

[Board of Command]

I can already type pretty fast without any special training. Most of typing is muscle memory anyway. When you place your hands on the keyboard in a particular, trained way, your muscles do the rest. It's not really a conscious task. When you're doing WASD, you're not telling your fingers to move to certain keys on the keyboard. Your mental process is simply "press the W key" and your finger does it.

Even the fastest typists out there would have trouble telling you the exact location of, say, the B key.

[Animeniax]

The Das II has increased curvature of the F and J keys so you can find the home location more easily.

Ditto to what BoC said, muscle memory is key for typing, not memorization of key location. For the knife or melee attack in FPSes, I always map an auxiliary mouse button. I've found though when playing games, sometimes I have to look at the keyboard to figure out where a particular action key is at, but I can almost do it quickly enough where it's not a hindrance, though it's probably what keeps me from being elite.

[Board of Command]

I always map the most common commands (e.g. reloading, drop weapon, grenade) to the mouse buttons, and as many remaining commands to within a 2-key radius of the S key.

It gets troublesome for complicated games where there are too many keys to map ergonomically.

[Buffalobiian]

There isn't much I can map on a mouse with only one "special" button. You do get used to using all the other keys, especially if they're within reaching distance. It just gets really annoying when I strike the team_chat button instead of reloading.

[Animeniax]

I'm the same way, too many keys to remember and reach efficiently makes it a hassle so I map everything I can to the mouse. My right hand is more precise and coordinated anyway, so it's easier to control certain actions with my mouse hand than keyboard hand.

That's why gaming keyboards like the zboard and even the Logitech G15 don't appeal to me.

Anyone who plays PC games should have at least 4 mouse buttons and a scroll wheel at a minimum.

[itadakimasu]

new 22'' lcd :) woot !

its an LG 'Flatron w2252tq'
picked it because my wife was going to buy one for me and i didn't want her to spend $500+ on a 24'' when this was $260.

10000:1 aspect ratio
2ms response time...

i'm playing cs right now and it really pwns.

[Board of Command]

My second system (not built yet, but I have the parts):

Sempron 3200+ @ around 1.2 or 1.4 GHz underclocked and undervolted
AMD heatpipe cooler
Asus M2A-VM
2 GB DDR2-533 generic crap memory
160 GB Western Digital 1600JS
Enermax Liberty 400W
Antec Sonata

It's obviously a very low-horsepowered system, but that's the intention. My main system is too loud and power-hungry to keep running 24/7, so I'm building this second one. It'll be a remote controlled system (no keyboard, no mouse, no monitor) that I can remote desktop into from anywhere that has internet. I can keep it running 24/7 and download stuff while I'm out of the house. I'll also serve as a depository for miscellaneous files, such as archived anime that will be burned to disk one day. It'll be hooked up via gigabit LAN.

I'll build it tomorrow, but I don't have the case yet. My parents will bring the case the next time they visit. Until then, it'll just be a motherboard sitting on the bedroom floor.

This leaves my Intel Badaxe without a home, so I'll have to figure out what I'm going to do with that. I don't want it to sit there collecting dust. I originally planned on using that board for this secondary system but couldn't find a proper CPU to go with it. Nobody has used 65nm Celerons for sale, and I can't find any for free. Those are awesome CPUs for low-powered systems.

[itadakimasu]

i have a celeron 420 is you want to buy it!

i don't even remember why i bought it ($40 / ebay) they also have the 'dual-core' celeron that is around $50-60 new.

[Board of Command]

Celeron 420 is Conroe based. My Badaxe is an early revision board that doesn't support Conroe.

Anyway, here's the new system up and running:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9735/dscf0043rz6.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0043rz6.jpg)

Update: I'm currently undervolted to 1.1v, from stock 1.35v. Sitting in the open, the CPU loads at 25 degrees with the fan running at a very low speed. I'm still running at the default 1.8 GHz, and didn't bother underclocking because Cool 'n Quiet sets the clock to 1 GHz when it's idle (which is all the time). GREAT SUCCESS!

However, the hard drive is clicking, so I'll have to go buy a new one tomorrow. It's not a huge deal since I got the rest of the parts for free. I might as well spend some money on this system aside from the case.

[Killa-Eyez]

On another note, does anyone has any intel about future AMD Quad cores working with DDR3 or maybe higher? I'm planning on buying myself a new system but I'm gonna wait till AMD's Quad core improve.

[Board of Command]

I think AM3 will support DDR3.

[itadakimasu]

I think AM3 will support DDR3.

Joking?

or are they going to roll out a new socket soon ?

as for ddr3, the prices are dropping. I saw some (2x 1gb) for $120 or 130 on newegg.

unrelated question :

Can you underclock with atitool? I have a computer here in the office and its display (dual monitors) was all messed up and I had to power it off and back on.. ran gpu z and it showed the video card at 79 degrees. it is a 7900gt... don't ask me why the lady i work with spent 100 each on a few of these just for dual monitor use...

going to attempt to underclock it to keep it a little more cool

[Board of Command]

Back to my new system - I picked up a WD GreenPower 500GB drive today and it's cloning right now. This drive is pure awesome.


Joking?

or are they going to roll out a new socket soon ?

AM3 has been in the works for a while. They're trying to make it a smooth transition from AM2 to AM2+ to AM3, each being backwards compatible with the old stuff. The physical socket remains the same, but the circuitry and chipset features are different.



Can you underclock with atitool? I have a computer here in the office and its display (dual monitors) was all messed up and I had to power it off and back on.. ran gpu z and it showed the video card at 79 degrees. it is a 7900gt... don't ask me why the lady i work with spent 100 each on a few of these just for dual monitor use...

going to attempt to underclock it to keep it a little more cool
Yes, you can underclock with ATI Tool. Rivatuner works too.

--------------------------------

My previous picture was a temporary setup for installing Windows and stuff. Here's what the "final" setup looks like before it goes into a case.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5417/nibelheim1bz7.th.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nibelheim1bz7.jpg)

[Buffalobiian]

Hey BoC, what would happen in the event of a power failure? The system would reboot, but would you be able to log in through remote desktop while the user isn't logged into Windows on the system?

I like your idea, and it'll fix my problem of wanting to download things while I'm at uni and stuff without having my main system running all the time.

edit: Is there a way for you to make the system sleep or something until it receives a request from a remote comp?

[Board of Command]

I have it set up so that it logs into Windows automatically at startup (with a passworded account). It's also possible to restart and shutdown the system via Remote Desktop using Command Prompt, or icons that run the commands. Once it restarts, it logs in automatically and you'll be able to Remote Desktop into it again within about 30 seconds.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure you can log in remotely without the target machine being logged in. As long as the user account exists, you can log in whenever you want.

As for standby, I believe it's possible to go to standby and wake up remotely. Going to standby is just another Command Prompt thing. Waking up will require your hardware to support Wake-on-LAN, and forwarded ports if you're doing it over the internet. I haven't looked too much into this stuff yet. Right now I'm just planning on running this system 24/7, but if remote standby stuff is easy to implement then I'll do it.

[Board of Command]

@ Buffalobiian:

I have WOL set up now and this site has an online Magic Packet sender.

http://www.dslreports.com/wakeup

So far it works when I send from one machine on the network to the target. You have to forward external port UDP 9 or 32767 to any vacant port on the target system. The page says port 9 but on another page it says 32767. I just forwarded both. It can use both IP addresses and DNS addresses. DNS is especially useful if you're on DSL and have a dynamic IP. I used www.no-ip.com to set up a DNS.

[Buffalobiian]

Hmm, thanks for that BoC. I'll dig back into this thread if I ever get the parts that I need to implement this. You mentioned buying a case or something, so are you sticking with this custom wooden case idea, or getting a microATX case or something?

[Board of Command]

I already have an Antec Sonata. I just don't have it with me right now, so the parts are just sitting on the floor naked. I've scrapped the wooden case idea. It's too hard to build because I don't have woodworking tools.

By the way, here's the other piece of the WOL puzzle - the standby command.

First, disable hibernation by running powercfg -h off
Then, every time you go to standby, run rundll32 powrprof.dll,SetSuspendState

[itadakimasu]

OK, latest build - Last night! pictures coming soon

This build was inspired by frys having the Q6600 on sale w\ a crappy mobo (ECS) for $180, and cheap case+psu, and my having most of the rest of the parts at home to build it!

I was going to buy another mobo anyhow but got a little impatient so i decided I'd build w\ the ecs for temporary.... and the ecs board apparently doesn't support newer processors or something or was just DOA. This is my 3rd DOA ecs board out of 4 i've had... I only tested it w\ the q6600 and a 3.4ghz pentium 4 ht neither worked.

Anyhoo. Specs :

Coolermaster Elite 330 ($25)
Coolermaster 600 watt psu ($30)
Q6600(retail) w\ crappy ecs board ($180) going to sell the ecs for $30 or so
Zalman CNPS 9700 ($20 ! bought 2 cause they were on sale so cheap)
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L ($100 - No sata raid.... boo)
Sapphire X1950XT (used)
2 x 250gb maxtor sata (used)
4gb kingston ddr2-667 ($70)

I got done w\ this so late last night that I didn't get a chance to play with it at all, so tonight I'm going to see how it runs counterstrike and maybe others.

[Board of Command]

Encode some H264. Counterstrike on that system doesn't do it any justice.

[Board of Command]

Anyway, I finally put my second system in a case last night (black case):

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3434/dscf0048jr6.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0048jr6.jpg)

The thing is completely inaudible unless you put your ear right next to the case. You can't even tell it's turned on unless you check the power indicator. Surprisingly, it has 4 fans inside.

2 x 120mm case fans running at 5 v
Thermaltake V1 heatsink's fan running at lowest possible speed
Power supply fan running at lowest possible speed

I like it.

[Buffalobiian]

Hmm, I wish my computer was that quiet. It's got a passive graphics card, but it's still loud. I blame the generic PSU and 80mm fan at the front.

Edit: not really the right thread, but meh, I'll make it link. If I was to get a comp with 4GB of memory or more, what OS versions would I need to utilise all the memory. I read up on the 32-bit memory limit thing, but it's not really sinking in. Basically, any 64 edition OS? If so, what software compatibility issues are there with it these days?

[Board of Command]

You need a 64-bit OS to address all of your 4 GB system memory because 32-bit doesn't have enough addressing space. 32-bit can address a maximum of 4 GB total, which includes graphics memory among other stuff. In the end you're only able to use about 3 GB of the system memory. 64-bit breaks this barrier but still has a limit, although we're not reaching that limit any time soon.

If you get Vista x64, there will be almost no compatibility problems unless you run some obscure software that nobody else in the world uses.

[Buffalobiian]

Ah, okay. Thanks for that BoC.

[itadakimasu]

i priced out a system upgrade on newegg earlier :

Gigabyte mobo - $149
E8400 CPU - $189
4GB Patriot DDR3-1333 - $160...

It's really tempting but i'm not sure if i'll do it yet, i was kind of thinking i should start w\ ddr3-1600 so that its double my current ddr2-800 but maybe thats just a stupid idea.

I've seen how great the qx9650 and up are suppposed to be but i dont want to spend more than $200 on a CPU

[Board of Command]

Don't get Gigabyte motherboards. Lots of people recommend them, but I hate their BIOSs. I always try to stick with Asus.

[Buffalobiian]

What's wrong with their BIOS? I don't play with them much, but they don't seem to be bad.

(Apparently they're durable, but that's probably a marketing thing)

[Board of Command]

Poor layout. Some stuff is counter-intuitive.

[Zachiru-Hirosaki]

Budget €1400-1500
3 years having a shit computer i thought its time make my own computer setup.
I just seacrhed on the internet for good things for my computer so i found enough stuff.

Screen: Samsung 226-BW

My components
Motherboard:€111
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3, Retail
Not that expansive but there are good reactions about this motherboard

Processor:€283
Intel Core Duo E6600(conroe) Boxed
First i thought i will buy the E6400 but the prize of the E6600 started to decrease so i bought the E600

Memory:€100,20 Kingston 2048 mb DDR2 PC5300 667Mhz Cas5 (2 of them)
The quality is very good and it has endless guarantee.

Harddisk:€78 Seagate Barracuda 320 gb 16MB SATA
its very fast not expansive

Harddisk:€150 Western Digital Raptor 74 gb 10000 RPM 16 MB SATA
i use this disk for Windows Vista so that Vista twists rapidly

Dvd Rewriter:€32 Samsung SH-182M ATAPI/E-IDE Black
Because i have a black case

GFX: €380 EVGA8800 GTS 640 MB
I bought this one instead the 8800gtx because i think the 8800 Gtx is 2 xpansive for me.

Case: €70 Thermaltake VB1000BWS Soprano+Window, black
i still dont think that this one is good the design is nice it seems it has a good airflow with 3 fans. But still dont that its big enough for my setup?

Power supply:€83 Antec NeoHE 500 watt
I read some good things about this one

Cooler:€20 Arctic Freezer 7 Pro
i dont know if its important ot buy a cooler because im not going to overclock my Pc but when its usefull i just choose this one because of the quality and the price

Operating System: €86 Windows Vista Home Premium 32bit
I choose for the standard Vist i dont need the Ultimate
one year guarantee €50

Total €1442.20

[Animeniax]

Didn't BoC just get through saying not to buy Gigabyte mobos?

If it's not too late and you can afford it, return the 74GB Raptor and get the 150GB; it trumps the 74GB in every category. Otherwise, decent system, should handle any game you throw at it, at a fairly good price.

[Zachiru-Hirosaki]

alright there is time left i will go tomorrow for 150gb thnx man!:)

[darkshadow]

My components

Processor:€283
Intel Core Duo E6600(conroe) Boxed
First i thought i will buy the E6400 but the prize of the E6600 started to decrease so i bought the E600

GFX: €380 EVGA8800 GTS 640 MB
I bought this one instead the 8800gtx because i think the 8800 Gtx is 2 xpansive for me.



Ill let the motherboard slide, but those 2 are some seriously retarded stuff, i dunn where the hell you got that price, but cpu prices are:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Boxed € 145,- (cheapest)
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Boxed € 239,- (most expensive one, that is still cheaper then the one you picked)

the gfx card, omg
Sapphire Radeon HD 4850 € 141,- (bests the 8800/9800)
Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 € 214,50 (destroys the 8 and 9 series of nvidia)

but if you really want an nvidia and are gonna spend € 380 anyway:
Asus ENGTX260/HTDP/896M GF GTX 260 € 334,39 (ugh)

[Buffalobiian]

Since you're planning to run Vista, I'd say bump the RAM to 3GB. 2GB might be enough, but 3 will give you that little bit of headroom for running games on HIGH-everything. I wouldn't worry too much about how you'd arrange it for get dual channel running.

Right now, 3GB memory > 2GB interleaved memory

[Board of Command]

Budget €1400-1500
3 years having a shit computer i thought its time make my own computer setup.
I just seacrhed on the internet for good things for my computer so i found enough stuff.

Screen: Samsung 226-BW

My components
Motherboard:€111
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3, Retail
Not that expansive but there are good reactions about this motherboard

Processor:€283
Intel Core Duo E6600(conroe) Boxed
First i thought i will buy the E6400 but the prize of the E6600 started to decrease so i bought the E600

Memory:€100,20 Kingston 2048 mb DDR2 PC5300 667Mhz Cas5 (2 of them)
The quality is very good and it has endless guarantee.

Harddisk:€78 Seagate Barracuda 320 gb 16MB SATA
its very fast not expansive

Harddisk:€150 Western Digital Raptor 74 gb 10000 RPM 16 MB SATA
i use this disk for Windows Vista so that Vista twists rapidly

Dvd Rewriter:€32 Samsung SH-182M ATAPI/E-IDE Black
Because i have a black case

GFX: €380 EVGA8800 GTS 640 MB
I bought this one instead the 8800gtx because i think the 8800 Gtx is 2 xpansive for me.

Case: €70 Thermaltake VB1000BWS Soprano+Window, black
i still dont think that this one is good the design is nice it seems it has a good airflow with 3 fans. But still dont that its big enough for my setup?

Power supply:€83 Antec NeoHE 500 watt
I read some good things about this one

Cooler:€20 Arctic Freezer 7 Pro
i dont know if its important ot buy a cooler because im not going to overclock my Pc but when its usefull i just choose this one because of the quality and the price

Operating System: €86 Windows Vista Home Premium 32bit
I choose for the standard Vist i dont need the Ultimate
one year guarantee €50

Total €1442.20
Wow some of these prices are outrageous!

Motherboard: If you're going Intel, then you should get at least a P35 if not P45. P965 has been discontinued for over half a year now. Plus, the Gigabyte 965P-DS3 is not a very good motherboard regardless of what others might tell you. They don't know their stuff. You should take a look at the Asus P5K-E or P5Q-Pro.

Processor: Again, this CPU has been discontinued for over half a year already. You should be looking at the E7xxx or E8xxx series if you're going dual core.

Memory: That's really expensive for 2 GB of memory. I can get 4 GB of DDR2-800 for cheaper than that here in Canada. You might as well pick up 4 GB if you're building a system right now. OCZ generally has the cheap kits.

Hard drive: Western Digital WD6400AAKS or Seagate 7200.11 500/750 GB are the drives you should be looking at.

DVD drive: Get a SATA drive. They should be roughly the same price as IDE drives right now. SATA cables are so much nicer to work with than IDE cables.

Video card: NO! DO NOT get the 8800GTS 640MB! It has been discontinued for over half a year now just like the CPU and motherboard you picked. For ATI, get the 4850 or 4870. For Nvidia, get the 9800GTX or 8800GT if it's considerably cheaper.

Everything else is okay. You can consider saving some extra cash by obtaining Windows Vista through other means.

[Animeniax]

I think Zachiru must be from one of the European countries with high prices on all electronic goods, like Croatia or some such. A Croatian buddy of mine was just telling me how outrageous the prices for technology are there, and taxation on such items is terrible too.

Wow, I seem to be out of the loop on the latest technology trends. I haven't shopped for a PC build in over a year, so it seems a lot has changed.

[darkshadow]

Dude, he is dutch, I just looked up the dutch prices for him, that's why i said his shit was retarded.

[Kraco]

Yeah. Those prices would be way too expensive even for Finland and this is supposed to be a very expensive place.

[Zachiru-Hirosaki]

ok guyz i just changed somethings thnx for the help.
One thing should i buy Sound Blaster Elite Pro?

[itadakimasu]

I'm thinking of giving intel a try... Technically i already have an intel box but its my wifes computer and I dont use it. the q6600 w\ x1950xt and 4gb ddr2-1066 out-performs my amd 6400+ w\ hd 3870 and 4gb ddr2-800...

Anyhow. I'm thinking of going w\ a higher quad core and thinking at least q9450 because it has 1333 fsb... I'm not trying to go beyond the q9450 as far as price ($329- newegg) the next step up is $500 something... so idk.

should i go w\ something like a q9450 or should i go w\ a e8500 ?

i priced out mobo, cpu(9450) and 4gb ddr3-1333 and it is like $850 and i have everything else I need for the build already.

[darkshadow]

1333mhz fsb?
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/2411/image1dd6.jpg

[Board of Command]

1333 FSB?

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9506/e6300qw6.png

FSB really makes a minimal difference on home computers. If you're thinking about the Q9450, I suggest you also take a look at the Q9300. It's a lower clocked part with half the cache, but also costs considerably less. With some overclocking, you should be able to match the Q9450's performance in most areas that don't rely heavily on cache size.

[darkshadow]

haha thats a pretty badass overclock, doesnt seem like you did any volt modding though, heavy duty watercooling?

[itadakimasu]

They have the 9450 at frys w\ a crappy mobo for $249 so i'm going in a little bit to buy it..

i dunno if i will buy a mobo there or if i will shop around for one, unless they have some ddr3 on sale too. idk.

[Board of Command]

haha thats a pretty badass overclock, doesnt seem like you did any volt modding though, heavy duty watercooling?
Nope. I use pretty low-end air cooling (Freezer 7 Pro). All of the old E6300s could overclock the FSB with ease. My chip idles in the low 30s and loads at around 50 degrees.


They have the 9450 at frys w\ a crappy mobo for $249 so i'm going in a little bit to buy it..

i dunno if i will buy a mobo there or if i will shop around for one, unless they have some ddr3 on sale too. idk.
That's definitely a good price just for the CPU alone.

[itadakimasu]

yeah, its a really good price.

I got a gigabyte 3d-aurora case the other day for $50... and i have hard drives and a dvdrw drive and a zalman 9700 so I just need to figure out what motherboard I want to get and what ram i'm going to get..

so far :

case : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233013
cpu : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115042
cooler :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118020&Tpk=zalman%2b9700

hard drives : 2x150gb raptor x - I'm thinking of putting 3 1TB seagates I have in a raid 5..

video card : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103050

[Board of Command]

Asus P5Q-Pro is a really nice cheap motherboard.

[Animeniax]

What do you use to monitor system temps with? I use Asus probe that comes with the P5B, but I'm not sure of its reliability. Idle temp on my Q6600 is 20C, mobo 40C, ambient 26C. The proc never gets higher than around 29C.

[Board of Command]

Asus Probe is wrong. Use Coretemp.

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

[itadakimasu]

Anim : what are you using for cooling ?

Per darkshadows last post w\ the cpuz screen I tweaked my wifes system last night and got the q6600 up to 3ghz in a snap. It is running @ 35-45 w\ a zalman 9700.

I'm not sure how high i'm going to run my system when i get it put together... that q6600 runs cooler overclocked then my 6400+ does just idling w\ same cooling.

[Animeniax]

I'm using a Tuniq Tower 120. I haven't bothered OC'ing it but I will probably mess with it a little to get better performance from Assassin's Creed.

[itadakimasu]

i ordered the remaining needed parts for my new system today :

Item List

PSU OCZ|OCZ700GXSSLI 700W RT - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$124.99)

MB GIGABYTE GA-EP45T-DS3R 775 P45 R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$189.99)

MEM 1Gx2|OCZ DIII1333 OCZ3P13332GK - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$118.99)

I only got 2gb of ram for now because i can always buy another set. Toms hardware showed that this ram is rated @ almost ddr3-1600 so hopefully when i put my fsb up to 1600 the ram will run fine w\ no adjustments.

thinking of possibly adding another 3870 to match the one that i have right now also but this isn't too important to me.

i should have it put together this weekend ^^ pictures will be posted later.

[Board of Command]

I got an Accelero S1 today and slapped it on my 4850. I run it passively with my side case fan blowing on it. Temperatures are awesome.

4850 @ 700/1100 runs Crysis at over 30 FPS high settings.

[Board of Command]

RV670 chip

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/120/dscf0104qz2.jpg

[itadakimasu]

i googled that and came back saying it is what is in the 3870's..

and speaking of 3870's, i found this auction on ebay the other day and I just won it @ $185+15 shipping for 2 3870's, they're the same as the one I have now that I paid $200 for not too long ago.

So when I get them I'm going to put one in my system and get crossfire going, hopefully... the tubing on the water cooling system i put in might be in the way of one of the cards so I might have to put a longer tube in or something....

and i realized I made a bad power supply decision, i got a 700w ocz gamexstream but I should have spent $50-60 more and found a modular one because between all those cables and the water tubes and massive video card, its starting to get cramped even though the case is pretty huge


http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/b-1.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/a-1.jpg

I got everything together after having to exchanage the water cooling kit because it was used and not marked as open-box. then system wouldn't post...

I think the backplate for the waterblock was grounding out on the case. Have not had time to get back around to it. First temp readings were 15-20c

q9450
2gb ocz ddr3-1333 (spd to 1500+)
2 x 150gb raptor X
gigabyte galaxy 2 water cooling
gigabyte p45 mobo
gigabyte aurora 3D case
ocz 700w gamexstream ( too many damn cables ! )

I think i'm going to leave the tank outside of the case because i'm getting another 3870 and i don't see that fitting.

[Board of Command]

I got a Phenom 9500 today. I'm running some video encodes right now to see how much faster it is than the old 5200+.

[itadakimasu]

I dont know if i need to update the bios on the board or what... but the system isn't stable. It will boot into windows but locks up even at stock speeds.

Also, coretemp shows core temperatures @ around 50c but if i go into bios it is 15-20c...

i have to re-do the water tube and put everything back in the case and hopefully all will be well.

[Board of Command]

Are you using the default BIOS settings?

[itadakimasu]

I have it set to defaults except for usb keyboard and usb mouse.

I booted up a couple times @ 1600 fsb but it would freeze...

I booted last night in safe mode and it was completely stable so that helped me to know that its probably not hardware related, i'm hoping the problem was the generic ati driver that the xp install i used gave my 3870. I went out and got the newest driver from ati and loaded it and the system stayed on all night and also updated the bios to the most recent version.

I also got 'realtemp' and it showed my core temperatures @ around 37 avg which i still think is high because if i goto bios / pc health it shows 12-20c for cpu temp

[Board of Command]

I also got 'realtemp' and it showed my core temperatures @ around 37 avg which i still think is high because if i goto bios / pc health it shows 12-20c for cpu temp
12-20 is very unlikely. You're probably around 25 if you're using water cooling.

[Zachiru-Hirosaki]

Hey guyz i still dont know which GfX card i want to buy:
9800 GTX or ati 4870?(9800 vs 4870)

[darkshadow]

try reading the previous posts?
here:
http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?p=386842&postcount=410

[Board of Command]

Hey guyz i still dont know which GfX card i want to buy:
9800 GTX or ati 4870?(9800 vs 4870)
Well to start off, they're in different price brackets. How much are you willing to spend? Because that will decide which card you will buy.

[itadakimasu]

i don't really know what stream processors are but 4870 = 800 / 9800gtx = 128.

idk if all of the 4870's have gddr5 memory but thats kind of cool. i just bought 2 more 3870's off ebay for $185+15 shipping... i don't see myself getting another card for a while. My older x1950xt is still a very capable card.

anyhow... i think im going to put the guts back in the case sometime tonight. It looks like everything on my new system is running ok. I have it @ 3.4ghz and the ram at a little over 700mhz (highest spd = 752)

* I just got the 3870's in! I have to make a change or two to the water tube when I get home and then get everything tested w\ the 2 3870's.

[Board of Command]

My Phenom 9500 is about 70% faster than my old X2 5200+ at x264 encoding. I love it. The best part about this is that I got the Phenom for free. Sure it's not as fast as Core2 Quads, but for free of charge, I can't complain. Now I truly have a dedicated encoding machine.

But the sad thing is... this is pretty much all a Phenom is good for. Multithreaded applications. My E6300 is still better for all day-to-day stuff.

[itadakimasu]

i wanted to get a phenom but their low clock speed compared to the intel quads kept me away...

maybe if they bring out something impressive i will use it.

I got my system back together but the 2 video cards i put in did the same thing the first one did w\ drivers, i can boot to safe mode but then when i boot i get black screen.. i uninstalled and then installed the most recent driver but it did it again and i put it down for the night, but not before doing one more fsb increase to 450 putting it @ 3.6ghz and the ram @ 750mhz 7-7-7-20 timings idle temp 36-40 (per core) which is same as at 3.4

the cpu outside temp is 15-20c though, the cores are just more warm.

[itadakimasu]

Here it is... got everything together today, luckily ati put out a new driver yesterday that fixed the problem i was having w\ crossfire.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/2.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/bbaucom/1.jpg

[Board of Command]

You only need one Crossfire bridge.

[itadakimasu]

LOL

is that why it was showing that I had 4 3870's in the catalyst software?

*feels stupid*

The box had two bridges in it so i just put both of them on

[Board of Command]

It should show four of them. Using two bridges has the same effect as using one.

[itadakimasu]

i ran 3dmark and it scored a little over 15,000 at stock speeds. My amd 6400+ w\ 4gb ram and 3870 i think only got about 8000

[Board of Command]

The overall score means virtually nothing. It's the two game test scores that you should be concerned with if you're trying to relate 3DMark06 to real world performance.

Anyway, here's mine with a 4850 @ 700/1100

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5518/4850700e1100mef0.png

It's a very CPU-bound benchmark when you run it at the default settings.

[Zachiru-Hirosaki]

Guys i cant choose:Amd x4 9950 , Amd x2 6000+ or Intel duo core e8400

which one is better for gaming?

[Board of Command]

E8400

Phenom 9950 runs hot like a nuclear power plant and it's not even that fast. X2 6000+ is old and not that great nowadays. E8400 is pretty awesome and I wouldn't mind having one in my system.

[Animeniax]

Has anyone tried SSD drives in a desktop environment, or is it still too expensive?

[darkshadow]

you could prolly buy a 32gb one for not that much, for like a boot disk, i think a 150gb raptor would cost more.

[Board of Command]

The OCZ Core drives are relatively cheap. The 32 GB one is under $200.

[darkshadow]

thx for mentioning that one, its only €139 here ( cheaper then a 150raptor), i might get it.

[Animeniax]

Check some reviews first. I've read a few that are discouraging. The performance gains with Windows are negligible for boot and shutdown times. From the couple articles I read, SSD are best for large file writes, and terrible for random read/write.

The Core SSD in particular suffers from data corruption issues related to ACHI features. Of course, you have some power savings and weight savings when used in a laptop. Like one reviewer said, "you get what you pay for". There's a reason OCZ can price their offering lower than anyone else.

[Zachiru-Hirosaki]

He guyz if you have 2 Gfx cards, can you connect them on one screen?

[Buffalobiian]

He guyz if you have 2 Gfx cards, can you connect them on one screen?

......Pardon? You're saying can you connect two graphics card onto one monitor?

[Animeniax]

Yes, with SLI or Crossfire you can use two of the same cards to generate graphics in tandem on one monitor. An upcoming driver from Nvidia will allow multiple monitor support with SLI. I'm not sure if Crossfire supports multiple monitors or if it requires both cards to be the same or just similar.

[darkshadow]

crossfire supports multi monitors, since 8 months ago.

[Animeniax]

Do the crossfired cards have to be exactly the same or just similar to work?

[darkshadow]

http://ati.amd.com/technology/crossfire/charts.html

4000 series should crossfire with 3000 series too, but aren't listed yet on that chart.

[Zachiru-Hirosaki]

Any cable to connect them with one screen:confused: i have a motherboard that supports CrossfireX

[Board of Command]

You connect the monitor cable to one of the cards just like how you'd do it normally.

[Koyuki]

Has anyone tried SSD drives in a desktop environment, or is it still too expensive?

Pros: fast accesstime, fast reading, silent, and cold.
Cons: Slow writing.

It isn't really worth it. I find it a bit expensive. Wait a year and you can buy one cheap ;)

[Animeniax]

Pros: fast accesstime, fast reading, silent, and cold.
Cons: Slow writing.

It isn't really worth it. I find it a bit expensive. Wait a year and you can buy one cheap ;)
So perfect for OS boot (minimal writes), but don't use it for file storage or paging file. For the price it doesn't seem worth it right now. If they can drastically improve write times and get the price per GB down, it would be gold.

[Board of Command]

It'll be a long time before SSDs match the $/GB of magnetic hard drives.

The old fashioned hard drive is still constantly improving, with platter densities increasing every year. This of course has a huge influence on their performance as well, which can be seen in the new generation of 320GB platter drives. Products like the WD6400AAKS already have faster read/write speeds than the Raptor 150 despite being only a 7200RPM drive.

[Koyuki]

Yeah, but so is SSD also. 128GB is out now. SSD will be the new hdd for OS. I've never cared about the raptor disk. For 60$ I get like 5% more performance, and lose 550GB.

Animeniax: Yeah, very good for OS. In a year you can probably get 64GB for 200$.

[Board of Command]

It doesn't matter what you think about Raptor drives. I merely used them as an example to illustrate the development of hard drives in recent years, and price has nothing to do with that. The new 640GB (320GB platter) drives are able to achieve read/write speeds of over 90 MB/s and cost under $80.

For SSD, the problem was never about size. Size is easy to overcome since the drives are just arrays of NAND chips and to get bigger sizes, they just add in more chips.

The problem is price. All of the top performing SSDs are outrageously expensive. The $200 64GB SSD that you "might" be able to get next year will most likely not be a top performer. It will take years before SSDs become mainstream.

[itadakimasu]

so, my new system has been locking up periodically and last night finally got an idea why...

gpu temps were in the mid 90's... I had no idea WoW was that demanding

[Board of Command]

It's not. 3870 gets really hot because the heatsink sucks and the fan spins really slow.

[Buffalobiian]

Does that result in a hot and quiet card?

[Board of Command]

Yeah it's definitely quiet.

[itadakimasu]

i tried using ati tool to change the fan speed but it doesn't work w\ xp-64 and ati control center doesn't seem to have any sort of fan control options. i pulled one of the cards out night before last and it didn't restart once then or yesterday.

I haven't had a chance to look for a waterblock for the card but i think i might just leave my system w\ the single 3870.

Also : has everybody seen the new intel price drops and new processors?

[Animeniax]

Yeah it's definitely quiet.
It's the silent killer.

[Board of Command]

Silent - yes
Killer - not quite

[Buffalobiian]

Silent - yes
Killer - not quite

As in the heat doesn't really kill the card, or the card isn't a "killer"?

[Board of Command]

I'd say it's both.

Here are some new benchmark results for my 4850's new overclock of 750/1100. It's pretty close to a real 4870. The GPU score in Vantage is only 2% lower than the real thing.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9668/48507501100vantagepdj4.th.png (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=48507501100vantagepdj4.png)

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1511/4850750e1100mfr6.th.png (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4850750e1100mfr6.png)

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-4870-review--asus/11

[itadakimasu]

rivatuner looks to be a solution to my 3870's heat problem... or rather its stupid fan problem.

the fan is a part of the heatsink to work... to draw off the heat. Rivatuner showed fans @ 25% when its 85, temps now at 45c w\ 59% load.

[Board of Command]

My shipment of parts came in today, which includes an Ultra-120 Extreme. I'm going to (hopefully) have fun overclocking an X6800 this weekend. 3.7 GHz without crazy voltage is the goal.

[Board of Command]

I got an Antec 900 today to replace my 3.5-year-old Chieftec case. I wanted a smaller and lighter case since I move around every 4 months, and it's a huge pain in the ass to lug around the Chieftec case because the empty case alone weighs about 30 lb and it's built like a tank. The Antec 900 was quite a bit smaller and it took me a long time to put all my parts in there while doing the cable management. It also doesn't help that I have more stuff to put in than the average user.

Overall, it's a pretty nice case and the price was good ($80). It's quieter than my old Chieftec and offers much better airflow despite the relatively small space inside. I'm giving the old case to my little brother and I'm definitely going to miss it very much. I put a LOT of time and effort into modding that case and it's going to take a while to get used to looking at a little black case beside me instead of the usual giant yellow thing.

I don't have pictures since I don't have my camera with me.

[darkshadow]

wouldnt the 1200 be a better choice though? its only a tad bit bigger, but offers great cable management/airflow

[Animeniax]

Might have been the price that made the 1200 less attractive. It's almost twice the cost of the 900.

[Board of Command]

Yeah, the 1200 is around $160-180 here in Canada, while the 900 was on sale yesterday for $80.

There have been four revisions of the 900 so far, and I got the latest one which has a few holes for cable management. It helps a bit, but the bottom hard drive area is a bit cramped with all the SATA and power cables. I'll probably mod the case a bit when I get the chance to cut more holes for cable routing. Right now the cabling isn't that bad, it's just that it could be better. I'll do some work on it after I move back home.

The airflow is great and it's not too loud.

[Board of Command]

Just moved back home today...

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5662/setupaug2008dj3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5662/setupaug2008dj3.jpg)

[Buffalobiian]

Just moved back home today...

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5662/setupaug2008dj3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5662/setupaug2008dj3.jpg)

I see you kept most of the layout unchanged from your last place. What's that white/red thing next to your keyboard do?

[Board of Command]

It's a blower fan I made a year ago from three X1800/X1900 heatsinks. It runs on 5v or 12v powered by my fan controller, though I generally only use the 5v since 12v makes it sound louder than a hairdryer. It does blow quite a bit of air at 12v.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8227/blower1rr1.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blower1rr1.jpg)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2686/blower2xa3.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blower2xa3.jpg)

I put it next to my keyboard there because it's perfectly level with my chest if I position it on its side like that. The air that comes out isn't a straight stream; it curves a bit. By having it blowing sideways, the air sweeps across my chest.

[itadakimasu]

It's a blower fan I made a year ago from three X1800/X1900 heatsinks. It runs on 5v or 12v powered by my fan controller, though I generally only use the 5v since 12v makes it sound louder than a hairdryer. It does blow quite a bit of air at 12v.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8227/blower1rr1.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blower1rr1.jpg)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2686/blower2xa3.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blower2xa3.jpg)

I put it next to my keyboard there because it's perfectly level with my chest if I position it on its side like that. The air that comes out isn't a straight stream; it curves a bit. By having it blowing sideways, the air sweeps across my chest.

lol... thats awesome. custom personal cooling, first time i've ever seen something like that.

[Buffalobiian]

My brother's asking me to pick up some computer parts for him, and I thought I might pick up something for myself.

I was picking between the following cards:

512MB 9800GTX ($160AUD)
512MB 9800GTX+ ($259 AUD)
512MB 4850 ($212 AUD)

From the looks of things, I think I'll prefer the 4850. I've done a bit of research, and this is the message I'm getting:

"4850 is a quiet card at idle, but this advantage disappears under load. It's on par with the 9800GTX+, and sometimes better in terms on performance. It does run hot though."

My case doesn't have superb air flow, and I think my CPU temps are a bit high. (Sep=Spring here. 1am, CoreTemp reads 45C on my E6600. Haven't dusted PC in 6 months).

Do you think the 4850 is a good buy? Will the heat hurt in my circumstances? I'm not really too fussed about upgrading, but if it's good, I don't see why not.

If it's happening, I'll be upgrading from a silent 8500GT. Desktop res: 1280*1024.
Mainboard: Gigabyte965P-S3 x.x Intel 965/946
Processor: E6600
Ram: 2x1GB DDR2 667
PSU: 500W generic.
OS: WinXP Pro SP2 32-bit

Main concerns (in order): driver problems, noise, heat (if it affects other components).

Any thoughts?

[darkshadow]

ppl make to big a fuss about heat..... 45c is just fine you know.... just get the 4850.

[Board of Command]

That's a very bad price for a 4850. Get the 9800GTX instead.

[Buffalobiian]

That's a very bad price for a 4850. Get the 9800GTX instead.

Really?? So the performance edge of the 4850 isn't worth the price difference? I would have thought it was a good bargain. I guess the 160AUD for a 9800GTX is low for such a card though.

What should the 4850 be priced at do you think then?

[Board of Command]

The 4850 and 9800GTX+ are supposed to be priced the same. I don't know why there's such a big difference between the two of them in Australia. In Canada, both are in the $160-180 range. The old 9800GTX has been more or less replaced by the 9800GTX+, so they're both around the same price.

[Buffalobiian]

Yeah, prices here are a bit weird. From what I gathered, the 9800GTX+ and 4850 prices are about what they are everywhere in Australia. The 9800GTX is just on a special.

Final question before I go pick something up, is there much performance gain comparing the 4850 vs 9800GTX?

I'm seeing results from tests trying to balance out the raw fill rates of the GTX and the processing units of the 4850. I don't understand it terribly much.

[Board of Command]

4850 is slightly faster than 9800GTX on average. The difference increases when you turn on AA, as the 4800 series have superb AA performance. However, this difference isn't worth the huge premium on the 4850.

[darkshadow]

Hmm i just noticed the price difference, the 9800gtx does seem like the better choice then, but I would still say 4850, I like ATI's stability and image quality a lot more.
If you don't mind spending that extra 50, def go for the 4850, otherwise just go for the 9800GTX

[Buffalobiian]

Okay, thanks for the input guys

[itadakimasu]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811215012&Tpk=abs%20case

In case anybody has $600 to blow on a massive case. its kind of cool... having the external 3.5/2.5 slots where they are on the side is pretty unique as opposed to the front. $600 is alot to budget out on a case though.

[Board of Command]

That's basically a knock off of this Lian-Li case, which I've worked with before.

http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=258&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=61&g=d

It's absolutely massive. The quality is superb but it's not something you want to carry around when you move. It's not that heavy since it's pretty much pure aluminum, but the physical dimensions makes it a huge ordeal to transport.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm currently looking for a motherboard to go with an E8400 CPU. Ideally it should be a mid or lower range board. My brother'll be using it for gaming, but no overclocking or tweaking. Any ideas? My choices are below, and for compatibility purposes, he's using an ASUS 4850. It doesn't need 2 PCI-E slots for budget and forseen usability. What do you guys think?
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/295/motherboardzp1.jpg

btw, when looking for motherboards, what are the things I should be looking out for?

-------------
Other than that, I'm also looking at a new case for myself. I'm personally thinking about an Antec P182, but I'm also seeing if you guys have a better recommendation?

Features I'm looking for are silence (or just really quiet), easily cleanable air filter and good cooling. The hardest thing to find is probably a case with a filter just as accessible as the P182, as it pops open with one click, without removing the front panel and everything. Again my available choices are as follows. I'm a bit more lenient on budget for this one (since it's mine :p). Thanks for any recommendations guys!

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1741/caseht9.jpg

(All prices in AUD - I know our dollar is a bit strong right now :D)