Bleach 61

[FrogKing]

DB-Bleach 61:
episode 61 (http://yhbt.mine.nu/t/b61.torrent)

[XanBcoo]

Since so much was revealed in this episode, I'll number my thoughts:

1. Lol, Mayuri has blue hair.
2. Awesome! They used "Number One" for a fight scene
3. It was nice to see the insides of Zabimaru. I've always wondered what's made it so stretchy.
4. Aizen is too fucking strong...defeated Ichigo's Bankai with his bare hands. The guy's in a different league. Though the scene showing his Shikai confused me. What exactly does it do? Is it not the hypnotism?
5. Looks like everyone was right in predicting Aizen's plan. I can't beleive he was behind literally almost everything that's happened up to this point. Shingami-Hollow hybrids...
6. Urahara too, looks like he's done a little scheming as well. At least we know Rukia's purpose in all of this now.
7. Another fucking cliffhanger!

[Assassin]

i wanna get my 2 cents in before this thread becomes 7 pages. Im assuming Aizens entire plan was revealed this ep. I wonder how ppl will react when they learn the real reason behind rukia's execution i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif. I have to admit, when i read this stuff in the manga, i was like ZOMGWTF!!!!!!!!!!!1111 *mental orgasm*. definately an intresting plot development.

i'll post more after i actually wach the ep.

[DarthEnderX]

Man, DB's translation of this was just....tiresome. During the parts where Aizen is explaining things, every 4th word or so was left in japanese. Frankly, this just made understanding what was fairly complicated to begin with, even moreso.

One thing does seem to not be going to Aizen's plan. Aizen thinks that the hollow/deathgod twinsoul thing resides in Rukia still. But it seems pretty obvious that when she gave Ichigo her death god powers, that this thing also passed to him, or at least part of it.

Also apparently, all of the things that Urahara set up in Rukia to contain this things power, apparently didn't transfer to Ichigo. So that's why his Hollow shit is leaking out all over the place.

So, while its a great plan on the part of Aizen's I guess, he at least wasn't able to predict everything.

I'm just wondering if Aizen and his two flunkies are gonna be able to fight all the rest of the captains, because pretty much everyone left is on their way now.

Oh, was also interesting to learn that the hollow that killed Kaien was one of Aizens hybrid experiments.

[heero]

The only thing i didnt like was that Mayuri was a 30ish looking year old man. He should look like he's 60 to match his voice..that's how i always imagined him as..and why is his vice captain watching him take a bath? lol

Aizen is invinsible. No one can touch him. There's no way that fox guy will hurt him at all. Also, Gin seems degraded..cause he follows Aizen's orders like a slave now. And still duno why the hell did Tousen join them.

[anphorus]

I think Tousen probably has a good reason becuase lets face it, Aizen being as uber as he is, if Tousen refused to join him he could've just killed him, and used his shikai ability to make everyone believe it was suicide or something. Aizen is the man i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[Cal_kashi]

I thought this episode was fairly slow, but that was okay because of the amount of information that was disclosed (which I suspect was disclosed in a poorly subbed fashion) Seriously, read teh Manga for a complete desc. of what really is going down / wen't down. CAn't wait for next weeks episode.

[Kraco]

The way Aizen stopped attacks looked like something Ichigo encountered when fighting against Kenpachi. Although Aizen probably knows better what he's doing. But still Kenpachi knows how it works, and might thus be able to fight that form of Aizen's invincibility. And, all in all, Ichigo is nothing but a n00b what comes to shinigami style fighting, so it's only realistic he doesn't fare that good all the time. And even the attack he tried didn't seem like the strongest he could pull off. Why didn't he attack like he succesfully attacked Byakuya, the attack that ended that battle?

But it's nice to know finally why everything was so centered around Rukia. And how this series, despite the long lenght, is tying everything to one big knot right from the beginning.

But why was Mayuri standing already? I thought it would take much longer for him to regain his form. After all, Ishida got the impression they wouldn't be anywhere near anymore, when that happened.



Originally posted by: DarthEnder
One thing does seem to not be going to Aizen's plan. Aizen thinks that the hollow/deathgod twinsoul thing resides in Rukia still. But it seems pretty obvious that when she gave Ichigo her death god powers, that this thing also passed to him, or at least part of it.

Did Urahara actually know this? Is this why he was so interested in Ichigo? Or was he just simply using Ichigo as a tool. But it seems likely he guessed it happened, at least to some extent. Still, he wanted Rukia saved, so maybe not all of the hybrid was transferred, or he's simply covering his tracks, or playing a dangerous game of misleading his enemies (Aizen), or even eliminating them.

[KoKo37]

well the first 60% of the espisode or so was kinda slow and it sorta botherd me that both hitsugaya and hinamori are most likey going to be healed, was hoping least one would die ( im not evil, i just like to see some good guys die not heroicly sometimes lol ) also they never showed Matsumoto's fight i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif hopfully they'll show some flash backs of it soon though XD. but the one fact that i Cannot accept is that they used "Number One" as a song in it!! OMG i thought they got rid of that evil tune -.- drives me nuts lol. anyways after that i found it very enjoyable, although it never had a lot of action, it explained a lot of stuff throughout the series quite nicely, also i kinda expected urahara to of done something bad with him not being a deathgod n stuff anymore. however lots of peep are saying that it was explained better in the manga so il start reading more of it now XD. n like someone said it was just probally a bad translation. oh and man i wanna see that rat guy fight, but it had to end as soon as he got there -.- hopfully the next espisode were be a huge fight n stuff i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[kenren]

WTF$%#%

Aizen is gay! i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Cal_kashi]

yeah kenren... that explains everything! especially why he likes gin, he covets gin's everexpanding sword.

[el_boss]

This was a really good episode. I think that Unohana is with Aizen. She didn't get killed and they way she spoke in this ep was really wierd. Also she looks like she could be Aizen's sister or something, she also looks almost "too nice". I still think that Urahara has some masterplan to twarth Aizen's ambitions.


Originally posted by: XanBcoo
4. Aizen is too fucking strong...defeated Ichigo's Bankai with his bare hands. The guy's in a different league. Though the scene showing his Shikai confused me. What exactly does it do? Is it not the hypnotism?
That wasn't his shikai. He said "Shikai... that won't work against me" or something of that nature.


Originally posted by: heero
The only thing i didnt like was that Mayuri was a 30ish looking year old man. He should look like he's 60 to match his voice..that's how i always imagined him as..and why is his vice captain watching him take a bath? lol
That was probably not his real body, I mean he's a mad scientist. And I think the vice-captain was there so he could get a "happy ending" i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Aramis]

Hmm, so basically Aizen wants to use Rukia to become a hollow and get more power? Apparently there will be a huge battle to stop him first. Can Aizen win? Depends on how many captains are gonna go up against him. We already saw Komamura. Kenpachi will most likely come fight, too. In the preview Inoue's also healing someone.
I suppose Yoruichi and Soifong can also help, but they won't make a major difference.
I don't think Mayuri cares about either side, although he should, there's big secrets and a lot of power to be had.
So, in the end it's up to the blazin' old man. Will he postpone the punishment and rally his students against Aizen? That would make the outcome clear, I think. Or will he be stubborn and ignore Aizen?
Is he also on Aizen's side? Or was he just a noob, wanting to execute Rukia without knowing what's going on?
I imagine that we will hear out Genryusai in the near future, and his actions will decide which side wins.

[Terracosmo]

So we finally get to see Mayuri's face in this ep? Nice, I've been looking forward to that for a long time. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Aramis
Hmm, so basically Aizen wants to use Rukia to become a hollow and get more power?
I think it's more likely that Aizen wants the power for himself.


In the preview Inoue's also healing someone.
I think it's really retarded (plot-hole) that Inoue didn't heal Ichigo when they found him half-dead.

[Kraco]

Maybe she couldn't heal him to any better condition than that. It's not like Inoue has any huge reiatsu at her disposal. She's doing pretty small-time business at best.

I wouldn't personally count on the old geezer very much. He should be the boss of the captains, but it seems to me he has no control or even idea what they are doing, much less what is going on all around him. He didn't even have any idea his own superiors were murdered a long time ago. Maybe he still has awesome powers, but otherwise he's clearly demented, and he's real uses might be few. Unless he's working with Aizen... But right now I don't believe that's the case.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Kraco
Maybe she couldn't heal him to any better condition than that. It's not like Inoue has any huge reiatsu at her disposal. She's doing pretty small-time business at best.
She managed to heal a wound the size of Ichigos entire body on Jidanbou.

[Kraco]

Yet still it might have been a pretty simple wound compared to Ichigo's, who suffered all kinds of cuts, the demon magic lightning bolt and also Byakuya's Bankai in various forms. And Jidanbou has now had many days of rest on his own, as well.

But it could be a plot hole, as well. It certainly looks like one. I was just trying to come up with any reasons why it necessarily doesn't need to be one.

[AGiath]

Okey, i've been reading these forums for a while now and i want to ask something so i though, i'd resigter...

Why did Aizen have to fake his death?
I mein Gin and Tousen din't... I don't see the use of it, beacause the Vice-Captain of the 4th team could send that info to anyone immidiatly
So fot the secret he dind't do it... I mean, i know that he'll blow his "cover" immidiatly...
Is it only for Kira and Hitsugaya to set up against eathother?

And why is he so strong? I mean he hasn't got that Hollow-Shinigami thing jet. (Although Ichigo seems to have it)

Why why why?
Omg what a plot change... i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Enderz]

Aizen is after the ball right, but didnt rukia give her power to ichigo so the ball should be in ichigos body

[naruto22]

Originally posted by: AGiath
Okey, i've been reading these forums for a while now and i want to ask something so i though, i'd resigter...

Why did Aizen have to fake his death?
I mein Gin and Tousen din't... I don't see the use of it, beacause the Vice-Captain of the 4th team could send that info to anyone immidiatly
So fot the secret he dind't do it... I mean, i know that he'll blow his "cover" immidiatly...
Is it only for Kira and Hitsugaya to set up against eathother?

And why is he so strong? I mean he hasn't got that Hollow-Shinigami thing jet. (Although Ichigo seems to have it)

Why why why?
Omg what a plot change...

He faked his death in case any one could suspect him of any suspicions. So he made himself look dead and asked Gin to the oh so obvious culprit. He conned Hitsugaya, who is the least trusting of Aizen as Hitsugaya is the youngest captain and Aizen hasn't work his charm of him yet. And tries to kill him too, the first Captain casualty.

URAHARA KISUKE!!!!! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR REASON, YOU MADE AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER GO THROUGH UNTOLD MENTAL AND PHYSICAL SUFFERING!!! YOUR NO BETTER THAN AIZEN!!!

This was my first impression. Then I thought, wait, he did try to destroy the Hogyuku. Its like Einstein invented the E-MC square theory but by the time he realised his knowledge could be turned into Atomic bombs his knowledge was already spread far and wide for everyone to produce weapons of mass destruction.

Well, at least now we have a good idea of why Urahara was kicked out of Soul Society. If he was branded a traitor and hunted by Soul Society (at no small instigation from Aizen) it would make sense for Yoruichi to know about it, being Secret Mobile Corps commander and escape Soul Society with him.

Very very good episode. Next episode we will see just how many Captans can Aizen stand up to. Hitsugaya may be powerful but the least experienced. The rest have been Captains for ages.

I'm going to enjoy Byakuya's face when he realises the LAW he was following all along was Aizen. Now his conscience has nowhere to hide him, he blindly followed orders without questioning them and as a result, almost killed his own sister.

[Konohamaru]

Well for one thing. I think the captains would stand a better chance at fighting Aizen when they're at full health. The past buncha episodes were seeing all the strong captains having a big fight of some sort and now they're half dead with barely any strength to continue fighting and against Aizen?! Aizen is prolly not as strong as people think he is because everyone's weak. I ain't doubting he is naturally strong but Ichigo's Bankai must've been at like 20% since he just had a fight with Byakuya.

Man oh man, I can't wait to see the next episode, That idiotic fox ruined Aizen's story i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif I hope he dies for interupting the story, I don't like him much to begin with. I wanna see Kenpachi against Aizen and hopefully Kenpachi will know the name of his damn soul slayer by then. If he does, he'll be super uber strong too.

So nearly everything in this episode was explained in a nutshell...well until that dumb fox came in.

[naruto22]

Compared to Tosen, I like Komamura better.

Tosen is prejudiced. If someone doesn't suit his ideals, aka Zaraki, he will kill that person without a thought about that guy's point of view.

Komamura is not prejudiced, just a loyal soldier. And Zaraki respected him for being a good fighter, with absolutely no regard for his face. And that's what makes Zaraki a great character. Sure he likes to fight, but he gets as much fun NOT killing the target in the end so that they can have another duel another day.

That Tosen spouting crap, I must kill you with my justice smacks of narrow mindedness.

It was so cool to see a larger than life Komamura appear, screaming for Aizen's blood. God, for a minute, I thought he used his Bankai. but i guess they exagerated his size since he is the biggest size among the captains anyway, taller and bulkier than even Zaraki.

[Munsu]

Originally posted by: Konohamaru
Well for one thing. I think the captains would stand a better chance at fighting Aizen when they're at full health. The past buncha episodes were seeing all the strong captains having a big fight of some sort and now they're half dead with barely any strength to continue fighting and against Aizen?!


Yep, Hitsugaya was half dead when he challenged Aizen... You have a keen eye...

[Kraco]

At least Hitsugaya was half witless when he attacked Aizen. He made the very classic mistake of allowing the bad guy to provoke him to a heedless rage.

[nests]

This episode was cool, nice to see what Urahara was up to all this time

[Marik]

Originally posted by: Enderz
Aizen is after the ball right, but didnt rukia give her power to ichigo so the ball should be in ichigos body

No, the "ball" is inside the gigai (faux body) that Urahara gave to Rukia after she had already given Ichigo her powers.

[Phoenix20578]

Good episode. That cliffhanger at the end was annoying though.

[Turkish-S]

Originally posted by: Konohamaru


Man oh man, I can't wait to see the next episode, That idiotic fox ruined Aizen's story I hope he dies for interupting the story, I don't like him much to begin with. I wanna see Kenpachi against Aizen and hopefully Kenpachi will know the name of his damn soul slayer by then. If he does, he'll be super uber strong too.

So nearly everything in this episode was explained in a nutshell...well until that dumb fox came in.

He had told everything when the fox arrived. last line was something like " i immediately went to room 46"
and after that we know the story.

[Knives122]

I haven't seen this ep, but when Aizen was explaining 'the entire story line' did they show any hollows?

[Turkish-S]

yes.. but flahsback hollows

[Dionysos]

Rukia did not gave this hollow thing to Ichigo, i think he achieved it himself when he was turning into a shinigami. And he faked his death to have the control in Soul Society being in this room 46.

[Knives122]

@T-S: yeah I was talking about the flashback hollows, more or less the fact that Aizen was the reason for Kaiens death.

[mage]

it was clearly explained how ichigo got his hollow powers, it's not because of rukia.

[Terracosmo]

Awesome. Aizen is so fucking cool. And I love Mayuri's maskless look. I always thought that the ugly appearance was his real one, so it was a big surprise.

I love how Aizen just completely rapes everything. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[DarthEnderX]

.

it was clearly explained how ichigo got his hollow powers, it's not because of rukia.
No it wasn't. You're full of shit.

On the subject of Aizen faking his death, apparently Aizen thinks that there needed to be a captain dying for the other captains to all go around using their bankai's and shit. Remember, once Aizen was "dead" they were able to declare a state of war. This leads to a bunch on Captains rulling around soul society using lethal force against each other and the intruders. I'm guessing that's the kind of distraction he wanted. Nobody focusing on what was actually going on.

In reality though its probably just because the writer wanted to take the readers by surprise as much as possible.


I must be the only one that didn't think Mayuri was wearing some kind of mask. I just thought he was a freak, like the fox guy.

[Assassin]

Originally posted by: naruto22
Its like Einstein invented the E-MC square theory but by the time he realised his knowledge could be turned into Atomic bombs his knowledge was already spread far and wide for everyone to produce weapons of mass destruction.


um, i think ur seriously confused. His theory and his work on the manhattan project are 2 very different things.



No it wasn't. You're full of shit.

On the subject of Aizen faking his death, apparently Aizen thinks that there needed to be a captain dying for the other captains to all go around using their bankai's and shit. Remember, once Aizen was "dead" they were able to declare a state of war. This leads to a bunch on Captains rulling around soul society using lethal force against each other and the intruders. I'm guessing that's the kind of distraction he wanted. Nobody focusing on what was actually going on.

In reality though its probably just because the writer wanted to take the readers by surprise as much as possible.


I must be the only one that didn't think Mayuri was wearing some kind of mask. I just thought he was a freak, like the fox guy.

ok, seriously darthender, calm down. recently alot of ur post have been rather aggressive. theres no need to be say hes full of shit just cuz u dont agree with him.

and while were on that subject, hes not full of shit. Tell me how rukia could've given ichigo hollow powers? all she did was transfer her shinigami powers to him. He got hollow powers when bayakyua cut off this chain, and he nearly became a hollow. Dont u remember that training session he had with urahara, in that deep well. He was becoming a hollow, but managed to break free at the last second, which left him half way between shinigami and hollow.

As for aizens death, the chaos of war was only a minor reason. once rukia was back, needed full control of events. the only way to do that was to kill the central 46 and take over thier position. Obviously he couldn't do that while pretending to be a captain, otherwise eveyone would wonder where the 5th captain went all of a sudden. That why he faked his death, so he could take himself outta the equation and be free to act independentely.

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
I always thought that the ugly appearance was his real one, so it was a big surprise.

Yeah. I always wondered why he built himself a body that looked awful like that armor / mask he was wearing. But now it makes more sense, when it's apparent he has a normal body after all.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Originally posted by: naruto22
Compared to Tosen, I like Komamura better.

Tosen is prejudiced. If someone doesn't suit his ideals, aka Zaraki, he will kill that person without a thought about that guy's point of view.


Tousen is easily the shittiest character in the entire show. Not only are his ideals dumb, he always looks like no one wanted to finish the effort of animating his black ass. Animation teams got no love for a brother.

God, if every episode in the series ever is nothing but Aizen owning people left and right, I won't complain.

[masamuneehs]

Aizen kicks ass. I like how he pulls the "I'm a bad guy, but I can still act like I give two shits about my enemies" act (his fight with Renji, not trying to kill him. Saying he killed Hinamori out of pity) Heck the guy sounded almost sympathetic towards Rukia when he was explaining that she was just a tool for Urahara.

Urahara. The second they said he was the inventor of the R&D Department of Soul Society I knew his role was going to be huge. Looks like the 'Ball', being both Hollow and Shinigami was too strong for just Urahara as a Shinigami to destroy on his own. At least Urahara's not on Aizen's side (i think...), or the whole thing would be totally stacked against Ichigo and crew... I love how Aizen knew how predictable Urahara's plan would be... but I'm wondering why Urahara didn't warn them specifically about Aizen before he sent them into SS...

Mayuri does look way too young. I imagined him as an older Hojo-looking guy...

The cliffhanger made me laugh out loud. I was just thinking "Damn, the episode should be over and Aizen's still in the middle of his speech" When Komomura came charging in and totally interupted him. I'll be surprised if the opening of the next episode isn't his Fox-head severed on the ground... just charging in like that... Aizen pwns all. Actually, on second thought, Komomura needs to fight Tousen. Which is too bad, cuz I couldn't give too shits less about those guys.

We didn't see any real substance to the Yama-ji Vs. Shunsui/Ukitake fight. BOOO!!

EDIT: "Number 1" haha. They start playing it as Renji and Ichigo devise and start that plan. Then Aizen puts up a finger and it stops, dead silence. That made me chuckle. The dude even pwns the soundtrack!

[XanBcoo]

I'm really curious to see why Tousen decided to join Aizen. Was all his talk of Justice just a lie, or does he follow his own code of Justice that Aizen could possibly fulfill? The thing I don't like has already been mentioned. Gin has been turned into a lapdog, not even attacking Ichigo because his master didn't say anything.

As for Urahara, I wonder why he chose Rukia of all people, and devised the plan to bring her to earth and give Ichigo her powers. That part seems very unpredictable. Perhaps he somehow knew Ichigo had the power to become a shinigami, and set up a situation where Rukia would have to sacrifice herself?

I said it before, Ichigo's Hollow is his own. It didn't come from Kaien or Rukia. There is the question of whether Aizen knows of Ichigo's Hollow form though. Does he know that Ichigo found a way to overcome the barrier on his own?

I really liked human-Mayuri. I'm glad they kept that creepy voice the same too.

[mage]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
.

it was clearly explained how ichigo got his hollow powers, it's not because of rukia.
No it wasn't. You're full of shit.

Are you joking? Ichigo started to become a hollow after his chain was eaten away by the things in Urahara's pit. Afterwards, he regained control of his body and pulled the mask off, but still retains the hollow power. It has nothing to do with whatever is inside Rukia because 1) we already know why he has hollow powers, and 2) Urahara's device was put into rukias fake body, which she got AFTER she gave Ichigo his hollow powers. I suggest you re-watch episode 19.

[Turkish-S]

Originally posted by: mage


Originally posted by: DarthEnder
.

it was clearly explained how ichigo got his hollow powers, it's not because of rukia.
No it wasn't. You're full of shit.

Are you joking? Ichigo started to become a hollow after his chain was eaten away by the things in Urahara's pit. Afterwards, he regained control of his body and pulled the mask off, but still retains the hollow power. It has nothing to do with whatever is inside Rukia because 1) we already know why he has hollow powers, and 2) Urahara's device was put into rukias fake body, which she got AFTER she gave Ichigo his hollow powers. I suggest you re-watch episode 19.

i think he means . NO SHIT!..

it's so obvious that he didn't got his powers from rukia. It's just stupid that Dionysos mentioned it in the first place.

[mage]

If he meant 'no shit' why would he tell me I'm full of shit? .....

If you read DarthEnder's first post in this thread, he honestly believes that Ichigo got his hollow powers from Rukia.

[Assertn]

I'm confused, at first i thought the whole gigai explanation was referring to urahara, but then it was referring to rukia.
So were both urahara and rukia using gigais for most of their time on earth? Does that mean most of urahara's reiatsu is permanently lost?

And personally, I don't like aizen as a character. It's basically the most generic looking character combined with the broadest range of abilities. Where's the fun in that?

[mage]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I'm confused, at first i thought the whole gigai explanation was referring to urahara, but then it was referring to rukia.
So were both urahara and rukia using gigais for most of their time on earth? Does that mean most of urahara's reiatsu is permanently lost?

And personally, I don't like aizen as a character. It's basically the most generic looking character combined with the broadest range of abilities. Where's the fun in that?

From what I understand, only Rukia's reiatsu would be permanantly lost in her gigai because it has the hougyoku in it. I'm not sure if Urahara is using a gigai. It doesn't really matter, though.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I'm confused, at first i thought the whole gigai explanation was referring to urahara, but then it was referring to rukia.
So were both urahara and rukia using gigais for most of their time on earth? Does that mean most of urahara's reiatsu is permanently lost?


I think it was referring to both of them. obviously Urahara is using a gigai, and it makes sense that he'd want to use one an untraceable one like Rukia has. But does that mean he's also being turned into a human?

Edit: ok, I can't understand Datebayo's translation. Forgive me, but how exactly is Rukia losing her reiatsu? I don't think it's because of the Hougyoku, but because of the gigai that Urahara made for her.

[FrogKing]

Ok, first great episode! Not too much action but definitely tons of substance. I am glad that we now have some light shed on us about Aizen's plan. Too bad it had to be in the I-am-a-super-villain-so-I-must-show-you-just-how-awesome-I-am speech, but now we are all caught up to speed.

Can we clear up where the 'hidden treasure' is? I have to re-watch the section where he was explaining where it resides (DB got a little confusing in its translation). I first thought it was hidden in Rukia, then I realized that it was hidden in the spare body that gave to Rukia after she lost her powers. It seems that there are several posts that think it was always in Rukia and several that don't think it was. Assuming that the hidden treasure was in the spare, then what is the explanation of how it was to be transferred into Rukia? I would think that he would have some how entrusted Rukia with a key to unlocking it (so-to-speak). In other words, could it be feasible that Rukia was also entrusted with part of his creation so that when joined with the spare body the hidden treasure would become whole in Rukia? Or was Rukia simply a vessel to transfer in the treasure and that it could have been anybody?

I think mage and Xan about Ichigo getting his hollow powers from when he was thrown in the pit by Urahara and not before. I think Ichigo has a different explanation as to why he is so powerful and not because of Rukia.

Oh yeah, Tousen is a bitch and Gin is a little dog now!

edit:

Originally posted by: mage
From what I understand, only Rukia's reiatsu would be permanantly lost in her gigai because it has the hougyoku in it. I'm not sure if Urahara is using a gigai. It doesn't really matter, though.
That clears up a litte bit now. Keep it comming!

[Kraco]

I don't think Gin is so different at all from what he was before. How many awesome fights with Gin have we seen? Not many. Maybe he doesn't even much enjoy fighting, even if he has decent skills, obviously. So, why should he even draw his sword, when he's with somebody like Aizen? Besides, I think Gin enjoys immensely seeing people being surprised one after another by Aizen. That's why he does nothing but watch.

[FrogKing]

Could someboy please either: 1. PM me the manga chapter/link for the current anime episode. or 2. Post the pictures of the Aizen's speech here (<ahem> Knives!). Thank you.

[alstar83]

I was always wondering why Rukia couldn't fight at all. Now I know. So she is only a mere human now.
Aizen doesn't know it hah? Man, he is gonna very disappointted to find the truth. Killing Ichigo is not easy, not say impossible.

[mage]

Originally posted by: FrogKing
Could someboy please either: 1. PM me the manga chapter/link for the current anime episode. or 2. Post the pictures of the Aizen's speech here (<ahem> Knives!). Thank you.
http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/1712/m7bleachch175134ti.jpg
* "Konpaku" means spirit *

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1714/m7bleachch175142bc.jpg

http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/6888/m7bleachch175158ik.jpg

http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/2838/m7bleachch175162si.jpg

He put the hougyoku in the untraceable gigai, which he gave to Rukia. This is chapter 175, btw.

[FrogKing]

THANKS MAGE! It does seem like he put the hougyoku in Rukia though from the manga and that the spare body somehow would consume the hougyoku's power? If that is the case, then perhaps Ichigo does have some of the hougyoku on him? I thought the anime had some additional info on the source of the hougyoku's whereabouts. Man, I can't wait to get home from work so I can watch it again.

[Knives122]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I'm confused, at first i thought the whole gigai explanation was referring to urahara, but then it was referring to rukia.
So were both urahara and rukia using gigais for most of their time on earth? Does that mean most of urahara's reiatsu is permanently lost?

And personally, I don't like aizen as a character. It's basically the most generic looking character combined with the broadest range of abilities. Where's the fun in that?

To your first ques.: no Urahara still has his powers

and to your second: just wait till the next ep, and you'll most likely get your wish

Oh and if there's one thing I'm thankful for in this ep it's that Aizen stopped the most annoying song in history with a finger

[Fiss240]

I dont think Aizen is literaly strong enough to stop Ichigo's bankai blade with his fingers, that was probably part of his mind-fuck special ability. Although I thought there was sort of hypnosis procedure thingy he had to do first.

[Phoenix20578]

It kinda sounded, and looked like, he turned his finger into a sword

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: Fiss240
I dont think Aizen is literaly strong enough to stop Ichigo's bankai blade with his fingers, that was probably part of his mind-fuck special ability. Although I thought there was sort of hypnosis procedure thingy he had to do first.

Its not quite clear to me either... At first I thought it was like Kenpachi. His Reiatsu had a stronger will, so his actual body could take a hit from Ichigo and not be harmed. (The whole, my force is stronger than your attack). However, Aizen stopping a quite determined Ichigo with his finger doesn't seem right. I thought that Aizen used his illusion technique (did he ever even put Ichigo under that spell? When and how?) and that his finger was actually not his body, but the Illusion, which is his actual blade.

Where in God's name is Yoroichi? (and Shiba Kukaku is on her way as well I hope)... I'd have thought she'd be one of the first to get back to Soukyou

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Where in God's name is Yoroichi?

She is with her lesbian lover Soi Fong deep in the forest catching up on those 1000 years of separation.

[mage]

what's up with everyone not liking Number One? It's the best song on the soundtrack.

[XanBcoo]

Some hate it, some love it.

And thanks for posting the manga pages. That really helps clear things up. The anime didn't even mention that Urahara was cast out of Soul Society for creating the undectable-human Gigai he gave to Rukia. Now I'm wondering exactly how Urahara put the Houkyoku in Rukia without her knowing it.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: mage
what's up with everyone not liking Number One? It's the best song on the soundtrack.
I think that "Nothing can be explained" is the best song on the soundtrack. In fact that's one of the best non op/ed songs ever in an anime, right up there with such hits as "Mezase Tenka-ichi" and "DragonBall Densetsu".

[mage]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Some hate it, some love it.

And thanks for posting the manga pages. That really helps clear things up. The anime didn't even mention that Urahara was cast out of Soul Society for creating the undectable-human Gigai he gave to Rukia. Now I'm wondering exactly how Urahara put the Houkyoku in Rukia without her knowing it.
its because he put it in the gigai before he gave it to rukia.

[Yukimura]

mage is probobly right, I bet he had that thing set up and was waiting for someone to come along who needed a Gigai, and it just happened that he found Rukia and she needed a gigai. From what Aizen said Urahara was looking for a way to make it lost to all the people with spirit tracing powers, so that's why he put it in the power sucker body. And about Aizen, from the way he talks he
s probobly already hit the absolute peak of Shinigami potential and he wants this Hougyoku to become even stronger. This would explain why we he can split people in half with his finger and grab swords with his hand like nothing. The hypnotism power just makes him all the more broken as a charachter, like Orochimaru in the Naruto Game Cube game (which is awesome...iI hope he's not in the Bleach game thats coming out...?).

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: mage


Originally posted by: FrogKing
Could someboy please either: 1. PM me the manga chapter/link for the current anime episode. or 2. Post the pictures of the Aizen's speech here (<ahem> Knives!). Thank you.
MANGA PICS

He put the hougyoku in the untraceable gigai, which he gave to Rukia. This is chapter 175, btw.

On the contrary, those pages seem to imply that he put the hougyoku in Rukia BEFORE he gave her the untraceable gigai.

"He put a barrier around the hougyoku itself and buried it deep within a spirit in order to try and conceal its location"

Not only that, but he discovered this information around the same time that rukia recieved the gigai. How would the information about it being concealed inside her reach aizen the same time urahara concealed it?

When aizen says "He tried to hide the location of the hougyoku" in the last page, he's saying the gigai was given to rukia so she couldn't be detected. If it was already concealed within the gigai, then what's the advantage of giving it to someone?

[anphorus]

If the hougyoku was placed in the gigai first, wouldn't it have to sort of transfer into Rukia's spirit if Aizen wanted to get it from her in SS? (As the gigai is still on earth). That makes me believe that it was transferred into Rukia's soul and not the gigai, because if that was the case he could've just waited for her to renter SS then go and pick up the gigai.

Also, the barrier around the hougyoku itself seems to render it undetectable, because, if you remember Urahara was expelled from SS some time before Rukia inhabited the gigai and Aizen said that, by the time he found out where the hougyoku was, Rukia was already missing on earth. This seems to suggest that Rukia was given the hougyoku some time ago, as it would make sense for Urahara to ditch the thing ASAP. (And who would suspect it to be n Rukia, remember how she was wasted by that hollow in ep 1).

About Urahara, I doubt he is in a gigai body at all, I think he is always in his spirit form; when he fights Ichigo he doesnt leave a body to fight, he is always carrying around his zanpaktou (in cane form), hich, as far as we know, doesn't manifest itself when the shinigami is in a body of any kind. Plus (and I'm not sure about this) I think only people who can see spirits have ever actually seen Urahara

[Assertn]

Eh, now that I know that rukia's gigai was different than gigais in general, it doesn't really matter whether urahara was in one or not. Although I'm wondering if part of the purpose of a gigai is to make the person easier to locate as well, which would be a disadvantage for urahara.

BTW, I just came up with a prediction.
I think tousen is going to end up betraying aizen, which will be the turning point of aizen's career. He pretty much said so himself that the only one immune to his techniques is tousen.

[mage]

the purpose of a gigai is to help a shinigami regain its powers

[heero]

MORE FIGHT LESS TALK

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: mage
the purpose of a gigai is to help a shinigami regain its powers

I could've sworn the purpose of a gigai is to allow shinigami to interact with the living world.

[mage]

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/168/asf5vv.jpg

i suppose they could be used for both reasons, though. this line also seems to make a contradiction. if they're all made out of spiritrons, how can they be seen by normal people on earth?

anyway, you guys have won me over on the hougyoku. it does seem like it was put in rukia's body a long time ago, before she gave ichigo her power. i still don't think any of the hougyokus power was transferred onto ichigo, though.

[ChaosK]

well, that would explain why she would never regain her reiatsu after giving ichigo her powers.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Eh, now that I know that rukia's gigai was different than gigais in general, it doesn't really matter whether urahara was in one or not. Although I'm wondering if part of the purpose of a gigai is to make the person easier to locate as well, which would be a disadvantage for urahara.

BTW, I just came up with a prediction.
I think tousen is going to end up betraying aizen, which will be the turning point of aizen's career. He pretty much said so himself that the only one immune to his techniques is tousen.


I would love to see this.

Tousen: Aizen, you fool, you were tricked, justice...

TOUSEN'S HEAD EXPLODES

Yeah that's right.. i refuse to believe he has any sort of advantage over Aizen, blind or not

[ToFuGuY]

holy smokes! aizen's plot was crazy!!! i bet he planned it forever!

[Munsu]

Originally posted by: mage


i suppose they could be used for both reasons, though. this line also seems to make a contradiction. if they're all made out of spiritrons, how can they be seen by normal people on earth?


It doesn't say they are made out of it... it says that they are created with it...

Which means, that the gigai have a high concentration of spiritrons... not necessarily made out of that...

[ChaosK]

who cares? im betting when ichigo returns to the real world (im guessing he will unless he's killed and becomes a full time shinigami) he'll have a bone to pick with urahara.

[RedX1z]

this episode was amazing. aizen was always two steps ahead this whole time, predicting their every movements and acting accordingly to them. the fact that he seems to be owning everyone up until now, just means aizen is the master, and everyone just barks. gin and tousen seemed a little too quiet, though.

[Darknodin]

Aizen didn't know about the fact that all the captains received the message

[darkmetal505]

kick butt episode, I liked fox-man's entrance near the end. Aizen's plan was well thought out.

[aznroyale]

7th captain made a great entrance

[Assassin]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Eh, now that I know that rukia's gigai was different than gigais in general, it doesn't really matter whether urahara was in one or not. Although I'm wondering if part of the purpose of a gigai is to make the person easier to locate as well, which would be a disadvantage for urahara.


It wouldn't really be a disadvantage, since no one is really looking for him. But i dont think he'd usea gigai body for himself. i just dont see the point in it.


What i wanna know is, WHY did he put the hogyuko in rukia in the first place? There are others far stronger who wouldve put up a better fight if they were ever captured. And im assuming he was cast out shortly after developing the hogyoku, so why not just hide it within himself. Since he was being cast otu anyway, there would be no need to go thru the trouble of using that untracable gigai. He could've kept all his shinigami powers AND keep the hogyoku safe.

Im certain he choose rukia for a reason. Its possible we'll have another major revelation later on in the anime, and we'll find out how rukia fits into all of this.

[Munsu]

Since he wanted whomever had the hogyoku to become human, it wouldn't matter how strong they were...

[mage]

i don't think he planned on rukia getting untraceable gigai when he put it in her, but it just ended up that way.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
I would love to see this.

Tousen: Aizen, you fool, you were tricked, justice...

TOUSEN'S HEAD EXPLODES

Yeah that's right.. i refuse to believe he has any sort of advantage over Aizen, blind or not

Why not? Would it be safe to assume that the source of aizen's strength is his ability to make the enemy see whatever he wants them to see? Maybe when he caught ichigo's sword with his hand, it was actually ichigo slashing at a rock and not realizing it. We don't really know the limitations to aizen's strength yet, but if a character's speciality is illusion, then chances are everything that he's done up to this point is illusion-based.

With the whole urahara and rukia thing. I find that really contrived that the very person that urahara hid the thing in also happens to be the same person that ends up needing his help later. Not only would she have to be in a situation where she needs to use a gigai, but she would've had to do something bad enough to want to avoid going back to SS.

I'm curious if aizen knows that ichigo is part hollow or not. Did they mention anything about that in this ep?

[Munsu]

Originally posted by: mage
i don't think he planned on rukia getting untraceable gigai when he put it in her, but it just ended up that way.

As far as we know, Urahara is the greatest inventor Soul Society had... I don't think he is stupid enough to know what his invention causes...

Untraceable or not, by removing the spirit power, it wouldn't matter who the carrier was... Since anyone would get their asses kicked...


Edit: Just re-read what you posted, and get what you mean... And yeah, I agree with you... He just used whatever soul was placed in front of him... Rukia was just there by coincidence...

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
EDIT: "Number 1" haha. They start playing it as Renji and Ichigo devise and start that plan. Then Aizen puts up a finger and it stops, dead silence. That made me chuckle. The dude even pwns the soundtrack!

Word, I was like "HAH! DIE YOU CRAPPY SONG!"

[Mgslee]

One question is do we know how long Urahara has been on earth? Same as Yorichi? 1000 years?

Heres my mind numbing theory on Urahara's part.
1) He created the hogyuko and thought "Oh shit, I cant destroy it, I gotta hide it. I can't keep it on me, that would be to obvious so I'll hide it on the first person I see (Rukia)"
2) Gets himself banned from SS for the creation Gigia (or whatever reason), since he doesnt have the hogyuko on him SS doesn't care and lets him go
3) Leaving the hogyuko in Rukia without his supervision is useless so he somehow gets Rukia assigned on to a mission on earth.
4) Sets up the fight for Rukia to get owned to the point where she has to do something crazy to stay away from SS and need a Gigia afterwards
5) Rukia is in the Gigia and slowly starts becoming Human to blend in with the rest of the world
.....
Now Aizen somehow figures all this out and knows that Urahara would send people to save Rukia. He probably does not have it factored how strong Ichigo is, because he goes on to say that they (the Ryoka) have done a far better destraction job then he originally thought possible. The whole Ichago + Hallow thing Aizen probably doesnt know about.

Urahara probably deliberatly setup the situation for Ichigo to get the hallow abilities cause he knew he'd need them when he gets to SS to fight off Aizen or whatever he comes across. I wonder if Urahara really knows / suspects that Aizen is after his creation, or did Urahara just send Ichigo and crew to get back Rukia to be safe under his watchful eye.

Interesting point is that Yorichi freaked out when she saw the Hallow mask on Ichigo (I think... its the ep when she flies him to the hidden cave when we first see her human form) so she obviously doesn't know whats going on with Ichigo. Question remains how much does Yorichi really know about whats happening.

Lots of interesting stuff happening... so tempted to jump ahead with the manga

[Knives122]

Originally posted by: Assassin

And im assuming he was cast out shortly after developing the hogyoku, so why not just hide it within himself. Since he was being cast otu anyway, there would be no need to go thru the trouble of using that untracable gigai. He could've kept all his shinigami powers AND keep the hogyoku safe.

Im certain he choose rukia for a reason. Its possible we'll have another major revelation later on in the anime, and we'll find out how rukia fits into all of this.

Well obviouisly he thought he would need his powers for future encounters(which is why he didn't put it in Yoruichi also), so he decided to seal the Hou gyoku up and wait for a coincidece to come along (Im guessing when he sealed it up he made it undetectable), which just happened to be Rukia.

[masamuneehs]

I also feel like it was just 'fate/destiny/luck/fortune" that made Kuchiki Rukia get the Faux Body (gigai) that contained the Super Ball. Honeslty, she was the first Shinigami in a long time that had decided NOT to return to Soul Society, specially afraid that her giving her powers to Ichigo was a violation of rules. I just think he would have given it to anyone.

However. IF Rukia the actual Soul who became the Shinigami was the one Urahara placed the Hollow/Shinigami Ball inside of, then its an entirely different story, and especially makes me wonder what Byakya Kuchiki's story is... However, I'm just thiniking that it was all luck that Rukia got woven up in this crazy plot...

[Assassin]

i think its too much of a coincedence that the "random" person he sealed the hogyouku in just happens to be in the area and loses her shinigami powers, requiring the aide of a gigai. Shit like that dosesnt happen in bleach.

If anyhitng, this episode should make it obvious that the author of the manga is thinking like 50 episodes ahead. Im willing to bet that urahara somehow planned for rukia to end up in that situation. not necessarily having to transfer her powers, but be weakened enuff to ask him for a gigai.

[DarthEnderX]

No, I was really saying mage was full of shit. He expressly stated that it was "clearly explained" where Ichigo got his hollow powers. It's not even "sorta explained" much less clearly. In fact, in the scene mage mentions its only "vaguely implied".

Bascially, there's three possibilities I see for Ichigo's hollow powers at this point.

1. He's the reincarnation of Kaien, who was merged with a hollow when he died. I don't buy this theory though.

2. He escaped from the hole that transforms you into a hollow at the last moment, being halfway through the transformation, now he's half hollow. This is the theory I used to believe until the stuff revealed in todays episode. I think the hollow mask as he was climbing out of the hole is just a side effect of his true powers.

3. Girl has half-deathgod/half-hollow power inside her. Girl gives her powers to guy. Now guy is half-deathgod/half-hollow. Makes pretty fucking good sense to me.


Why not? Would it be safe to assume that the source of aizen's strength is his ability to make the enemy see whatever he wants them to see? Maybe when he caught ichigo's sword with his hand, it was actually ichigo slashing at a rock and not realizing it. We don't really know the limitations to aizen's strength yet, but if a character's speciality is illusion, then chances are everything that he's done up to this point is illusion-based.

Problem with that is that Aizen himself has said his illusion only works on people who've seen him release his shikai. Ichigo hasn't seen that. Thus, Aizen catching his sword wasn't an illusion.

[Assertn]

I dunno.......after this episode, I'm beginning to think the whole point of that statement aizen made was that he could put all the captains and vice-captains under a big illusion without even them having to be in his presence, which is how he was able to fake his death without actually being there......

NOT to imply that ichigo had any sort of advantage

[Assassin]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
3. Girl has half-deathgod/half-hollow power inside her. Girl gives her powers to guy. Now guy is half-deathgod/half-hollow. Makes pretty fucking good sense to me.

I think you're forgetting that the hogyuoku doesn't GIVE someone hollow powers. It can be USED to make that happen. Like aizen explained, urahara found a way to do it correctly by using the hogyouku, but he knew it was a dangerous creation so he hid it. Now, if the thing turned ppl into hollows soon as it entered them, urahara would'nt hide it in someoen. He would keep it safe someother way, or keep trying to destroy him.

Not to mention, if rukia was half hollow like ichigo, her hollow side would've surfaced when she was about to die (at the execution grounds) in order to save her, just like ichigo's hollow side came up when his body gave out.

There is absolutely nothing to even imply that rukia has hollow powers, whereas all evidence points towards urahara's pit as being the reason for ichigo's hollow nature.

Edit:

About ichigo being immune to aizens illusions.....technically, since we havent seen aizens shikai, we cant say for sure that he hasn't used it on ichigo, or anyone else. For all we know, he could use it while talking to you, and then stab himself in the neck, and you'd be part of that illusion.

[XanBcoo]

For the record, Urahara has interacted with the living world. During the first Don Kanonji encounter, he is approached by the police (and makes a funny getaway too). I can't remember if it's in the anime or not, but it's definitely in the manga. So he's been using a Gigai as well.

Since Urahara hid the Hogyouku inside Rukia before she got her Gigai, that makes me think he was somehow behind the incident during the first episode.


Im certain he choose rukia for a reason. Its possible we'll have another major revelation later on in the anime, and we'll find out how rukia fits into all of this.
I agree with this.


I dunno.......after this episode, I'm beginning to think the whole point of that statement aizen made was that he could put all the captains and vice-captains under a big illusion without even them having to be in his presence, which is how he was able to fake his death without actually being there......
The impression I got was that Aizen, a long time ago, displayed his Shikai to all the other captains. He said this last episode. From then on, they would be under whatever illusion he wished them to be. Personally I don't think Ichigo was under any illusion when he was blocked by Aizen's finger, but we know that Renji has seen the Shikai before, so it's possible some of that fight was an illusion though. Who knows.

[Munsu]

Urahara could've put the hogyouku inside Rukia when he gave her the gigai...

Or do you know he did it before as a fact?

[Lucied]

Best part of the episode was fox face interupting Aizen mid speach, great way to end it, even though it's almost a sure thing the fox is gonna get his ass handed to him hard core.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
Urahara could've put the hogyouku inside Rukia when he gave her the gigai...

Or do you know he did it before as a fact?
Otherwise it would make no sence that Aizen said "By the time I found out about this, she was already gone".


Originally posted by: Darknodin
Aizen didn't know about the fact that all the captains received the message
I think that Unohana is with the bad guys so it's all part of Aizen's plan. But we will have to see what she does to Hits and Hina. I'm thinking that she might just simply kill them or turn them into hollows like Kaien.

What happens if Rukia dies? Does the hougyoku dissapear? If so: then it might have been Uraharas plan to get her killed in ep 1, but he didn't take in account that Ichi would be there. If not: then why doesn't Aizen just kill Rukia?

How long do you think that Aizen has been in control? Were Byakuya and Renji sent to retrieve Rukia because of Aizen?

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: el_boss
I think that Unohana is with the bad guys so it's all part of Aizen's plan. But we will have to see what she does to Hits and Hina. I'm thinking that she might just simply kill them or turn them into hollows like Kaien.


That's hard to say. But no matter if she is with Aizen or not, Aizen wanted the crowd to gather at the execution grounds. Because if Unohana isn't with him, the least Aizen would have expected is Unohana informing everybody. And if she is with him, then she informed everybody because Aizen told her to.

So, either way, it was Aizen's plan to get everybody there. Perhaps that has something to do with what he intends to do with Rukia. Perhaps killing her (body) will somehow set the hybrid free, and Aizen expects that monster to slaughter everybody, or something.

[Cal_kashi]

heres the way I see it. Sandal-hat developed this bad thing. and then a worse thing (the untracable gigai) that got him expelled.
Rukia transfered her powers to ichigo and temporarily needed a gigai. Sandal hat saw this as an opportunity to hide the hogyouku and 2 facedly gave rukia the untracable gigai with teh hogyouku inside.
Now, as soon as Aizen realized that Rukia was missing he knew that it could only be because she was in sandal-hats Gigai., which meant that sandal hat had probably put the hogyouku into her, because of the inherent safety in hiding something, in someone who happens to be untracable.
Then, Aizen hatched his evil plan and followed through, as he had probably been searching for the hogyouku endlessly and put it all together when Rukia fell off the radar.

[K.Kashier]

Originally posted by: el_boss
I think that Unohana is with the bad guys so it's all part of Aizen's plan. But we will have to see what she does to Hits and Hina. I'm thinking that she might just simply kill them or turn them into hollows like Kaien.

Why do you think that ?

I mean, when Unohana discovered Aizen and Gin in front of Room 46, if she was with them, then Aizen wouldn't explain everything to her cause she would have already known, and her lieutnant wouldn't send a message to all the captains to say : "Everybody, let's kick Aizen ass, he is at Soukyokou"

When Hitsugaya was slashed, there was nobody left watching them and Unohana won't have to behave like she didn't know anything if she was with them.

Sorry, it may seem a little confuse but it's the best i can do for now

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: K.Kashier
I mean, when Unohana discovered Aizen and Gin in front of Room 46, if she was with them, then Aizen wouldn't explain everything to her cause she would have already known, and her lieutnant wouldn't send a message to all the captains to say : "Everybody, let's kick Aizen ass, he is at Soukyokou"

When Hitsugaya was slashed, there was nobody left watching them and Unohana won't have to behave like she didn't know anything if she was with them.
They had to put up the act so that Kotetsu would inform everyone and it had to look/sound real.

Also like Tousen, Unohana had an ability that could have revealed Aizen's true plan. The fact that she didn't tell anyone about the corpse doll makes her even more suspisious.

And why did Unohana and Kotetsu happen to show up at the place where Aizen was, and again without telling anyone and without any back-up.

This is what I wrote earlier regarding Unohana, I mean it's not rock-solid but it's enough to raise suspision.


Originally posted by: el_boss
She didn't get killed and they way she spoke in this ep was really wierd. Also she looks like she could be Aizen's sister or something, she also looks almost "too nice" just like him.

[Inazuma]

I think Ichigo is in Aizen equations ...
All Captains went " Wtf you're strong Ryoka "
But Aizen goes " was I too soft ? "
Ok there's some large power gap between them but ... Comon' Aizen is a mastermind no way he could rule out such a huge X factor.

Aizen got Ichigo's party into his plans
And he is the one talkin about Shinigami/Hollow
Could Ichigo and/or his familly an experimentation of Urahara techniques ?
It would explain why they can see holowand ghosts ...
Why Ichigo could have broke Rukia's Kidou
Why Ichigo got this IchiHollow within him
Death of Ichigo's mother could have trigger all this ...

60 & 61 makes Bleach's plot a lot more entropic and I'm sure everyone is pleased about that

[Munsu]

I still think it has to do with the way he ended up becoming a Shinigami...

He almost turned into a Hollow in the process, so I think it is merely a side-effect of that...

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: K.Kashier
I mean, when Unohana discovered Aizen and Gin in front of Room 46, if she was with them, then Aizen wouldn't explain everything to her cause she would have already known, and her lieutnant wouldn't send a message to all the captains to say : "Everybody, let's kick Aizen ass, he is at Soukyokou"


How do you know that? If it's Aizen's plan to get everybody to the execution grounds, then why shouldn't the liutenant send the message? Such a claim makes no sense at all. I already explained the logic in my previous post, but let me state one fact that I didn't directly type down: The only way Aizen could have stopped the immediate gathering would have been to kill both Unohana and her liutenant, if they aren't his allies, or tell Unohana to do nothing, if she are his ally.

Of course this could be a flaw in the plot, but seriously... In a plot this good, why would there be such?

[Munsu]

I also don't think she's with Aizen...

According to Aizen, the role of the Ryoka's was to stirr up SS so that he can go about his plans... It makes no sense for him to make Unahana explain the situation to all SS so that they go after him... Unless he's sure that he has succeeded on his plans, and thinks nothing can stop him from now on.

[K.Kashier]

Originally posted by: Kraco


Originally posted by: K.Kashier
I mean, when Unohana discovered Aizen and Gin in front of Room 46, if she was with them, then Aizen wouldn't explain everything to her cause she would have already known, and her lieutnant wouldn't send a message to all the captains to say : "Everybody, let's kick Aizen ass, he is at Soukyokou"


How do you know that? If it's Aizen's plan to get everybody to the execution grounds, then why shouldn't the liutenant send the message? Such a claim makes no sense at all. I already explained the logic in my previous post, but let me state one fact that I didn't directly type down: The only way Aizen could have stopped the immediate gathering would have been to kill both Unohana and her liutenant, if they aren't his allies, or tell Unohana to do nothing, if she are his ally.

Of course this could be a flaw in the plot, but seriously... In a plot this good, why would there be such?


You don't explain why he tells her all about his plan.

And i think there is a little misunderstanding, let me explain better:

If she was with them as i said previously, why would Aizen waste his time talking. He would have tell her to contact now everybody, and would have gone to the Soukyokou.
I can understand why it could be in his plan to gather everybody but then it doesn't explain why Aizen must explain everything to Unohana ! If i'm plotting something with one of my friends, i don't see the use not to tell her about what i'm about to do. It's as simple as that. Besides, Unohana seemed very surprised when Aizen told her about his actions.
I'm just saying that i don't think they're ally but i can be true. You have just your theory and i have mine.No problem. I just defend my own. You have some good point (presence of Unohana without backup) but for me it's more the fact that why would she be so surpised about Aizen plan and the fact that Tousen sided with Aizen if she was with them too. It makes no sense.
There are no reasons for her to fake her surpise cause if she was her ally, they would have talked about what's next on the plan instead of explaining her everything.

And why would he tell her that he doubt they'll meet again he she is one of her ally ?

Moreover i don't think Aizen is worried about Captains gathering, he is so powerful that he beats them with a single hit. I mean Gin and him just keep smiling all the time, even when Hitsugaya goes bankai. It's quite strange how calm they are. As if it was nothing to them and they were convinced that nothing can stop them. Fights are just like "Let's have a little fun before we accomplish our goal" for Aizen.

Well, we'll see in the next episode ! (sorry for my poor english, i'm french and i haven't practice for a long time.)

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: K.Kashier
If she was with them as i said previously, why would Aizen waste his time talking. He would have tell her to contact now everybody, and would have gone to the Soukyokou.
I can understand why it could be in his plan to gather everybody but then it doesn't explain why Aizen must explain everything to Unohana ! If i'm plotting something with one of my friends, i don't see the use not to tell her about what i'm about to do. It's as simple as that. Besides, Unohana seemed very surprised when Aizen told her about his actions.
I'm just saying that i don't think they're ally but i can be true. You have just your theory and i have mine.No problem. I just defend my own. You have some good point (presence of Unohana without backup) but for me it's more the fact that why would she be so surpised about Aizen plan and the fact that Tousen sided with Aizen if she was with them too. It makes no sense.
There are no reasons for her to fake her surpise cause if she was her ally, they would have talked about what's next on the plan instead of explaining her everything.

And why would he tell her that he doubt they'll meet again he she is one of her ally ?
Yet again.


Originally posted by: el_boss
They had to put up the act so that Kotetsu would inform everyone and it had to look/sound real.


Originally posted by: Budweineken
I also don't think she's with Aizen...

According to Aizen, the role of the Ryoka's was to stirr up SS so that he can go about his plans... It makes no sense for him to make Unahana explain the situation to all SS so that they go after him... Unless he's sure that he has succeeded on his plans, and thinks nothing can stop him from now on.
Ok, Unohana might not be with Aizen (though I still think she is) but at least she and Kotetsu are being manipulated by him. Obviously it's part of Aizen's plan to gather everyone on the hill, maybe he will drain their powers so he will become even more powerful or something. He has calculated every angle of the plan, so I don't think he would let Unohana and Kotetsu live if it wouldn't benefit him. And it wasn't Unohana that alerted everyone it was Kotetsu.

If in fact it would turn out to be a mistake to let Unohana and Kotetsu live and Aizen is defeated bacause of that. This will be the shittiest plot ever, in the same league as scooby doo "if it wasn't for those damn meddling shinigamis". I sure hope this isn't the case, 'cause if it is, I won't be able to watch Bleach anymore.

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: K.Kashier
If i'm plotting something with one of my friends, i don't see the use not to tell her about what i'm about to do. It's as simple as that.

el_boss summed up nicely everything I would have written as an answer, so I will just pick this question from your lenghty text.

If you were a shinigami and were dealing with Aizen (and knew something of his evil deeds and intentions), would you personally expect that kind of guy to tell you everything? I have no doubt he tells his so called allies nothing more than he thinks they need to know, and not all of that is even probably true. And characters like that are likely to kill even their allies or friends when they are no longer of any use, or if it's useful to kill them somehow (like Hinamori).

When you make a deal with the devil, you better watch your back.

[naruto22]

This is a theory I posted previously but nobody even gave it a single thought, nor thought it was logical.

The plain fact is that Unohana just might be STRONGER than him. Why did Aizen not kill her? Why did Aizenleave after explaining the whole plot to her?

Face it, even if Aizen had left instantly the moment he saw Unohana, Unohana would still call and alert the others and every shinigami in Sereitei would be after his head. So it actually makes no sense that Aizen DID NOT kill her. Even if Unohana is a weak captain, all the more reason to shut her up rather than let her warn everybody in Sereitei.

Of course there's the possiblity that Aizen couldn't care less if 11 Captains come screaming for his neck. But honestly, I don't think he's that crazy. Sure he defeated Hitsugaya in one shot but Hitsugaya was mad with rage and I hate to say it. probably the least experienced among the Captains. I don't think even he can stand up to the combined might of all the Captains and their vice captains.

Remember that Shiba Kukaku is up to something as well. Possibly she's going to bust into Sereitei as well since all hell has broken loose in Sereitei. I would be suprised if she came into the fray looking for a fight as well.

So again, if Unohana was weak, Aizen would have shut her up and be done with it rather than let her warn everybody of his plans. But he didn't. The fact he was explaining the whole story to Unohana may actually be buying time for Tousen to capture Rukia and Renji. And even if he was buying time, he still should have slenced her rather than raise the alarm.

But he didn't. Possible conclusions:

1) Aizen is plain stupid. (hate to say his, but he is not)

2) Aizen is a show-off (he is but he picked the correct time to do so)

3) Aizen knows that Unohana will raise the alarm but figures every body is so wrapped up in their fights, they won't listen.

4) Aizen figures even if the alarm is raised, all the captains would be too weary to fight after fighting one another.

5) Aizen decides that he can't afford to mess with Unohana since he needs to get the Hogyoku from Rukia ASAP. So he delays Unohana with the story and waits for Tosen to capture Rukia. Then get the hell out of there rather than get into a messy fight with Unohana.

i go with point 5. But for some reason, everybody is so set in their minds that nothing in 4th Squad can be powerful, even their captains.

Well, here's another food for thought: who is a better killer? a soldier or a doctor?

[mage]

if unohana was so strong, she would've tried to kill him right there. she didn't because she knew she had no chance, and aizen didn't bother with her because it would be a waste of time.

[Terracosmo]

Quit being silly. Of course Unohana isn't stronger than Aizen.
Can you say plot device? Someone needed to inform the rest of SS about Aizen's actions. Someone also needed to make sure Hitsugaya & Hinamori survives (which they probably will, seeing as Unohana went to heal them).

Please end the discussion there, as everything else is wrong.

In case someone still needs a reminder, squad 4 is the weakest (QUOTE from Hanatarou), and Aizen obliterated Hitsugaya (in bankai mode), Renji & Ichigo without even breaking a sweat. The mere prospect of Unohana being able to pull that off is laughable.

Also, in case you don't watch the previews... (PREVIEW SPOILERS)








Aizen will also apparently have no problems with Komamura, since he looks very confident while catching someone's blade (assuming that's Komamura's, and even if it isn't, it would happen after Komamura's attack anyway).

[Knives122]

What!!!

Komamura just turned into a 5 story building giant with the "Your ass is mine" expression on his face. How can Aizen not lose?

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Cal_kashi
heres the way I see it. Sandal-hat developed this bad thing. and then a worse thing (the untracable gigai) that got him expelled.
Rukia transfered her powers to ichigo and temporarily needed a gigai. Sandal hat saw this as an opportunity to hide the hogyouku and 2 facedly gave rukia the untracable gigai with teh hogyouku inside.
Now, as soon as Aizen realized that Rukia was missing he knew that it could only be because she was in sandal-hats Gigai., which meant that sandal hat had probably put the hogyouku into her, because of the inherent safety in hiding something, in someone who happens to be untracable.
Then, Aizen hatched his evil plan and followed through, as he had probably been searching for the hogyouku endlessly and put it all together when Rukia fell off the radar.

When are you people going to stop being wrong about this >_<
Information about Rukia having the hogyouku existed before she even put the gigai on. So stop saying he put it in the gigai directly.

[Assassin]

Originally posted by: mage
if unohana was so strong, she would've tried to kill him right there. she didn't because she knew she had no chance, and aizen didn't bother with her because it would be a waste of time.


Exactly. Its like Aizen says when ichigo shows up "dealing with 2 specs of dust is no different then dealing with one" or something like that. If he considers ichigo and renji, 2 captain lvl characters to be nothing more then insects he can easily step on, why would he bother with some weak medical shinigami.

Also, those of you who're saying that kotetsu's mesage is all part of aizen's plan cuz he wants to gather everyone at the execution grounds.....you're all idiots. What could he possibly want with them now? He's clearly after the hogyouku which is in rukia. His best chance at escaping is to NOT have 9 captains chasing him.

The only reason he let unohana live is cuz she wasn't worth killing. And im sure he expected her to go and inform everyone else, but aizen is either incredibly confident that he can take them all on (which he probably could from the looks of it) or he knows he'll be outta there before anyone shows up (which would be wierd. how cant escape that fast)

Edit:




When are you people going to stop being wrong about this >_<
Information about Rukia having the hogyouku existed before she even put the gigai on. So stop saying he put it in the gigai directly.

heh, ya that too. Stupid ppl, think about it. If it was in the gigai already, and the gigai is UNTRACABLE, thers no need to give it to anyone. He could just throw it in the ocean or something and forget about it. And he couldn't have put it in her WHILE he was giving her the gigai, otherwise she'd know all about it.

[masamuneehs]

The only advantage I see Unohana having is that she seems to be the only one who knows enough about Spirit Bodies. She noticed that there was something wrong with Aizen's Illusion Corpse, but wasn't sure what, probably being distracted by all the injuries from fights inside Soul Society at the time. I remember Aizen complimenting her for not being 100% fooled by his illusion..

So that leads me to think that Aizen, if he does fear Unohana at all (which I don't think he does) is because she might be the only one capable of seeing past his Illusion technique.

However, I feel Aizen left that fight when he did because he needed to meet up with Tousen and "The goods", not because he was afraid.

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Can you say plot device? Someone needed to inform the rest of SS about Aizen's actions. Someone also needed to make sure Hitsugaya & Hinamori survives (which they probably will, seeing as Unohana went to heal them).

Please end the discussion there, as everything else is wrong.


We have enough plot devices in Naruto fillers... I'll be damned before I start to foresee such in Bleach.

[miaka]

now.. did everybody forgot that everybody seen aizen's shikai?

aizen probably doesn't care.. izen just have to use his illusion tech to get captain's to attack something else while he sneak and give a death blow..(like hitsugaya) which is prob why aizen doesn't care if the captain's are gathering.. like aizen in this episode it doesn't matter if it's one or two..

or even if they are very strong and aizen doesn't want to fight.. then he just have to take rukia and run..using illusion

umm.. and also.. if unohara was with aizen.. why would she have not known that death of aizen was fake? (she only had suspicions.. ) and why would aizen kill hitsugaya and hinamori to have them rescued by his ally.. isn't that waste of time?

and the fact that unohara didn't seem to know nothing about his plans.. till she heard it from aizen.. i mean okay.. yeah.. you dnot' have to tell everything to your ally.. but wouldn't they know about it at least a little?

[anphorus]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
So that leads me to think that Aizen, if he does fear Unohana at all (which I don't think he does) is because she might be the only one capable of seeing past his Illusion technique.


Someone had a good answer to this in a previous thread (can't remember who): Aizen is able to make everyone see what he wants them to see, however, Unohana being a medical shinigami she WOULD know a lot about spirit bodies (as masamuneehs said) whereas Aizen (probably) doesn't. I mean could you or I imagine an entire body to the same detail as a skilled pathologist or doctor would? I think that that is the only reason that Unohana wasn't fooled.

I also agree with miaka, Aizen likely doesnt care if all the captains were to show up, he could just use his illusionary powers to make them think that he isn't even there, or is a tree or something.

[Knives122]

Very true, but like I said a while back Yamaji 'is' the strongest shinigami, all he would need to do is release his shikai and incinerate the moutain top and bye-bye Aizen.

Aizen's strong but he still can't tap dance with the top dog (yeah I know that was corny)

[mage]

Originally posted by: Knives122
Very true, but like I said a while back Yamaji 'is' the strongest shinigami, all he would need to do is release his shikai and incinerate the moutain top and bye-bye Aizen.

Aizen's strong but he still can't tap dance with the top dog (yeah I know that was corny)
I don't believe it was ever said that he is the strongest, but only that he has the strongest heat zanpakutou.

[anphorus]

Originally posted by: Knives122
Very true, but like I said a while back Yamaji 'is' the strongest shinigami, all he would need to do is release his shikai and incinerate the moutain top and bye-bye Aizen.

Aizen's strong but he still can't tap dance with the top dog (yeah I know that was corny)
Good point. I suppose the fact that he would also incinerate everyone else in the process isn't really important. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Though, he could just order everyone else to leave, and handle it himself. Im sure the head of the 13 squads is good enough to do that anouncement kido thingy.

Also: Fox guy must be pretty speedy to get up to the top of that hill so fast compared to the other captains. And Yorichi, the supposed King of Flash (for more than one reason, considering the bath scenes.)

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: naruto22
5) Aizen decides that he can't afford to mess with Unohana since he needs to get the Hogyoku from Rukia ASAP. So he delays Unohana with the story and waits for Tosen to capture Rukia. Then get the hell out of there rather than get into a messy fight with Unohana.

i go with point 5. But for some reason, everybody is so set in their minds that nothing in 4th Squad can be powerful, even their captains.

Well, here's another food for thought: who is a better killer? a soldier or a doctor?
A soldier obviously.

I'm gonna go with my theory of Unohana being with Aizen (or at least manipulated by him), anything else would be a plot device as Terra put it, in which case it would ruin Bleach's excellent reputation.

Why would Aizen bother to attack Hina and Hits and the just let Uno and Kotetsu live to heal them and warn everyone?

If he didn't want to waste time, then why did he stand there talking about his plan with Uno? He could have used that time to kill them.

If he was afraid of Uno's strenght, then yet again why did he spill his guts? He could have just teleported out of there.

[anphorus]

I think the answer could just be that Aizen is a totally arrogant bastard.

Everything we've seen of him indicates that his is very full of himself. It could be that he only attacked Hitsugaya because he was provoked (indeed, we've never actually seen him attack anyone who didn't attack him first (except Hinamori, who he killed out of pity). He only attacked Renji after he refused to give Rukia to Aizen, before that it looked like he was willing to let him go).

Maybe he just thought that killing Unohana was beneath him, or wasn't worth his time.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: anphorus
I think the answer could just be that Aizen is a totally arrogant bastard.

Everything we've seen of him indicates that his is very full of himself. It could be that he only attacked Hitsugaya because he was provoked (indeed, we've never actually seen him attack anyone who didn't attack him first (except Hinamori, who he killed out of pity). He only attacked Renji after he refused to give Rukia to Aizen, before that it looked like he was willing to let him go).

Maybe he just thought that killing Unohana was beneath him, or wasn't worth his time.
Everything in Aizen's plan has been meticulously planned, then why would he let something like this ruin everything.

And I would say that Aizen provoked Hits.

[Dezalanel]

How is his plan being ruined? Do you realize that it does NOT matter how many people there are on the hill he can still escape. Anphorus has it right, Aizen is just completely arrogant and rightly so. He could care less how many people attack him he can kill them easily.

[Vegechan]

First and foremost, I thought the Manga shots were pretty clear, Urahara put the Hollow/Shinigami orb in Rukia before the gigia was even in question. Why did he choose her? I doubt Aizen would know that, and only Urahara does. In due time I'm sure we'll learn why he chose her.

Secondly, we need to look back at the oringal transfer of Rukia's power to Ichigo. We all assumed that Ichigo's natural spirit ability (which still is unexplained as to why he had such power. I'm guessing someone in his family has a history of it. I'm going to guess his mother because his father seems absolutely clueless to the spirit world.) was way he was so strong as a temporary Shinigami, and why he took all of Rukia's power when she only inteded on giving him a small portion of it. But what if, her transfering the power over was how the orb makes someone a hybrid hollow/shinigami?

Aizen talked about the incredible strength gained by this hybrid form. Right from the start, with his giant sword, Ichigo was powerful. So powerful resitsu leaked out of him, giving the ones closest to him, Inoue and Chad, powers of their own (I believe that's how Urahara explained it.) So powerful, that he scared that uber hollow. The only problem with this insane amount of power, was that he can't control it.

Now, I also want to bring your attention to a few other things. Hollow Ichigo has only intervined when Ichigo was about to die, which in turn. kill him. He took over in the Byakuya fight, had the mask stop a critical hit, and one other important time (at least by my theory.)

I believe, Ichigo, from the moment Rukia transfered her powers to him, was a shinigami/hallow hybrid. I don't think the orb transfered to him, but I believe the act of transfering the powers activated it and did it's thing. I also think Urahara knew this. When he threw Ichigo into the pit, I don't think Ichigo himself could have gotten out by himself. The reason Ichigo had the mask one and looked like a hallow? Because before Ichigo died, the Hallow came out, just like in the Byakuya fight, and made Ichigo escape, saving Ichigo, and himself.

[XanBcoo]

@Vegechan: None of your evidence points to the fact that Ichigo has got his hollow powers from Rukia.

We know how Ichigo came out of the pit, and it wasn't because of a Hollow, it was because he tapped into the shinigami powers and was able to escape (though being halfway turned in to a hollow). Ichigo has had a strange amount of strength from the start, but nowhere before the pit incident did it ever hint that he had a hollow inside him. Hell, he wasn't even that strong compared to Byakuya and Renji when they first showed up.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Dezalanel
How is his plan being ruined? Do you realize that it does NOT matter how many people there are on the hill he can still escape. Anphorus has it right, Aizen is just completely arrogant and rightly so. He could care less how many people attack him he can kill them easily.
I did not say that it was ruined. I said that he would not let something like this ruin his plan because he has taken every single detail in account.

[Hakeem_21]

Originally posted by: Vegechan
First and foremost, I thought the Manga shots were pretty clear, Urahara put the Hollow/Shinigami orb in Rukia before the gigia was even in question. Why did he choose her? I doubt Aizen would know that, and only Urahara does. In due time I'm sure we'll learn why he chose her.

Secondly, we need to look back at the oringal transfer of Rukia's power to Ichigo. We all assumed that Ichigo's natural spirit ability (which still is unexplained as to why he had such power. I'm guessing someone in his family has a history of it. I'm going to guess his mother because his father seems absolutely clueless to the spirit world.) was way he was so strong as a temporary Shinigami, and why he took all of Rukia's power when she only inteded on giving him a small portion of it. But what if, her transfering the power over was how the orb makes someone a hybrid hollow/shinigami?

Aizen talked about the incredible strength gained by this hybrid form. Right from the start, with his giant sword, Ichigo was powerful. So powerful resitsu leaked out of him, giving the ones closest to him, Inoue and Chad, powers of their own (I believe that's how Urahara explained it.) So powerful, that he scared that uber hollow. The only problem with this insane amount of power, was that he can't control it.

Now, I also want to bring your attention to a few other things. Hollow Ichigo has only intervined when Ichigo was about to die, which in turn. kill him. He took over in the Byakuya fight, had the mask stop a critical hit, and one other important time (at least by my theory.)

I believe, Ichigo, from the moment Rukia transfered her powers to him, was a shinigami/hallow hybrid. I don't think the orb transfered to him, but I believe the act of transfering the powers activated it and did it's thing. I also think Urahara knew this. When he threw Ichigo into the pit, I don't think Ichigo himself could have gotten out by himself. The reason Ichigo had the mask one and looked like a hallow? Because before Ichigo died, the Hallow came out, just like in the Byakuya fight, and made Ichigo escape, saving Ichigo, and himself.



Your theory is the only that makes sense in this 7 pages long thread.

I like it better than lets say Ichigo got his powers from his mother or something other as stupid.


There is only one problem with your theory he could already see spirits from the start which normal humans cant and Inoue and Chad started seeing only after they got affected by his spirit power.

[masamuneehs]

I feel like Ichigo had to have gotten some of his powers from his mom. His dad has no abilities whatsoever, yet Ichigo, Karian and Suzu (his sisters) all have some kind of special relation with spirits.

I'm also still one of those "Ichigo is some kind of reincarnation of Kaien Kukaku" believers. The similair appearances, attitudes, along with the fact that both are the only confirmed Hollow/Shinigami hybrids that we know of really make me think Ichigo and Kaien have some connection.

How Urahara knows this (if he knows it), why Rukia was selected (if there is any special reason that it was her) to hide the Crumbling Treasure Ball in, how Aizen got that information are still all very mysterious to me.

[ChaosK]

i feel that ichigo's powers are all his own and the orb is in rukia.

from before ichigo met rukia he had immense spirit power already, the fact that rukia came in has nothing to do with it, ichigo is turning hollow becuase he almsot become full hollow once, and also during the fight against kenpachi ichigo's little sub-fight against hollow ichigo inside himself proved that the hollow is still inside ichigo, was this hollow around at all during training? or before? nope, ichigo got it after turning almost hollow.

[Hakeem_21]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
I feel like Ichigo had to have gotten some of his powers from his mom. His dad has no abilities whatsoever, yet Ichigo, Karian and Suzu (his sisters) all have some kind of special relation with spirits.

I'm also still one of those "Ichigo is some kind of reincarnation of Kaien Kukaku" believers. The similair appearances, attitudes, along with the fact that both are the only confirmed Hollow/Shinigami hybrids that we know of really make me think Ichigo and Kaien have some connection.

How Urahara knows this (if he knows it), why Rukia was selected (if there is any special reason that it was her) to hide the Crumbling Treasure Ball in, how Aizen got that information are still all very mysterious to me.



I like Kaien theory it doesnt sound lame like he got from his mother and it isnt impossible it can be that way.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: Hakeem_21
Your theory is the only that makes sense in this 7 pages long thread.

I like it better than lets say Ichigo got his powers from his mother or something other as stupid.

Vegechan was the one who said Ichigo might have gotten his powers from his mom. In any case, why is that such a stupid idea? Ichigo was innately gifted before his encounter with Rukia, he could see spiritual beings and use his reiatsu to some extent (breaking the barrier Rukia put on him). It's logical to assume that it had to come from somewhere, and so far the only sources I can think of are his mother, or Kaien. I too beleive he has some connection to Kaien (possible reincarnation), but I think the two's hollows are completely unrelated. Kaien's spiritual body was infected with the Jiraiya-hollow and Ichigo has his own from the pit incident. It was discussed in another thread that Kaien died in SS and could have been reincarnated as Ichigo. I think that's a pretty strong theory concerning where Ichigo gets his natural power, but we can't really rule his mom out b/c we really know nothing about her.

I disagree with Vegechan that Rukia transferred the hollow powers to him in episode 1. There is pretty much no proof, and I think Ichigo got his Hollow from the pit. That seems to be the most reasonable explanation.

[Munsu]

I wouldn't call it stupid... But seeing as his mother got killed by a crappy hollow like Gran Fisher leads me to believe that she had no Shinigami powers...

I'm gonna go with the theory that Ichigo is simply a freak of nature...

[KoKo37]

well personly he got some sort of powers from his mothers because even if he was a reincarnation of Kaien his sisters got powers as well, however i dont believe he got any hollow or deathgod powers from his mom. Personly i think he got the hollow powers from Rukia and maybe that hollow that attacked ichigo and rukia in the first espisode was one of those ones that are extremely hard to sense ( i know she said ichigos powers was blocking her from sensing it, but i think it was also one of the ones Urahara made ), also i agree with Vegechan that the orb itself wasn't transferd just some of its powers. The Urahara hole theory i dont really buy because i would think that would be to easy, like if someone has very high will power and is about to become hollow does that mean he wont become one and will end up only becoming half hollow? well anyways im sticking with the Rukia theroy XD, though most of the time my theroys end up being wrong i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

[anphorus]

It seems that spiritual powers in humans is quite rare. Aside from Ichigo (and his family, which I think may have been caused by Ichigo's spirit leakage. I think it's possible this still happened when he was young, just at a much slower rate which would require long term exposure. Or his mother, even but that only further proves my point), Don Kanoji is the only other human with natural any spirit power we've seen. (And he was pretty weak, and quite famous because of it). So even if Ichigo is a reincarnation of Kaien, that doesn't mean that that has anything to do with his awesome strength; otherwise there'd be a whole bunch of reincarnated shinigami's walking around with insane spirit levels.

Kaien didn't seem like anything special, and yet Ichigo has awesome power. There's nothing to suggest that any reincarnated captains or vice captains had any significant spirit power (while they were still alive at least). If Ichigo got so powerful (even more powerful than Kaien was apparently) just from Kaien's power even normal shingami reincarnation would cause a noteable number of people with high spirit levels.

[darkmetal505]

reincarnation? theres a obvious reason, but if I posted, it would be a spoiler.

[anphorus]

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
reincarnation? theres a obvious reason, but if I posted, it would be a spoiler.
Then why even bother posting?

Now youv'e just ruined the speculation for the rest of us. For shame, darkmetal! i/expressions/rolleye.gif

[Phoenix20578]

I agree with Bud. Ichigo is probably just a freak of nature.

[KoKo37]

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
reincarnation? theres a obvious reason, but if I posted, it would be a spoiler.

that reason better have not only been in the manga -.-"

[Assertn]

damn, darkmetal505 and all the other manga prophets are so elite......
I mean, only someone as clever as him could've devised a plan to DOWNLOAD RAR FILES from bleach7.com

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: KoKo37
well personly he got some sort of powers from his mothers because even if he was a reincarnation of Kaien his sisters got powers as well, however i dont believe he got any hollow or deathgod powers from his mom.
This part I agree with. However...


Personly i think he got the hollow powers from Rukia and maybe that hollow that attacked ichigo and rukia in the first espisode was one of those ones that are extremely hard to sense ( i know she said ichigos powers was blocking her from sensing it, but i think it was also one of the ones Urahara made ), also i agree with Vegechan that the orb itself wasn't transferd just some of its powers. The Urahara hole theory i dont really buy because i would think that would be to easy, like if someone has very high will power and is about to become hollow does that mean he wont become one and will end up only becoming half hollow? well anyways im sticking with the Rukia theroy XD, though most of the time my theroys end up being wrong

I'm still waiting for a good "Ichigo got hollow powers from Rukia" explanation. First of all, what does the hollow in the first ep have to do with anything? And since when did Urahara make hollows?? Those two points confused me.

Second, Ichigo got his powers from the pit, because as Zangetsu himself said, Ichigo has his own shinigami powers that Byakuya didn't sense (making Ichigo special regardless of Rukia, possibly due to his being Kaien's reincarnation). Byakuya only assumed he had the power Rukia gave him, and took that away. He was then told to find his own powers among all those boxes. He did so as he was transforming into a hollow, thus his current condition. Again, there was no evidence to show that Ichigo had Hollow-shinigami hybrid powers before the pit incident.

As for Ichigo's enormous strength. I agree with anphorus. It probably doesn't only come from Kaien, because every shingami death in SS would result in people with high spirit powers. Maybe his innate strength is just "main character aura"? I'm curious now.

[KoKo37]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo


Originally posted by: KoKo37
well personly he got some sort of powers from his mothers because even if he was a reincarnation of Kaien his sisters got powers as well, however i dont believe he got any hollow or deathgod powers from his mom.
This part I agree with. However,


Personly i think he got the hollow powers from Rukia and maybe that hollow that attacked ichigo and rukia in the first espisode was one of those ones that are extremely hard to sense ( i know she said ichigos powers was blocking her from sensing it, but i think it was also one of the ones Urahara made ), also i agree with Vegechan that the orb itself wasn't transferd just some of its powers. The Urahara hole theory i dont really buy because i would think that would be to easy, like if someone has very high will power and is about to become hollow does that mean he wont become one and will end up only becoming half hollow? well anyways im sticking with the Rukia theroy XD, though most of the time my theroys end up being wrong

I'm still waiting for a good "Ichigo got hollow powers from Rukia" explanation. First of all, what does the hollow in the first ep have to do with anything? And since when did Urahara make hollows?? Those two points confused me.

whoops my bad, i thought it said that both Aizen and Urahara created those hollows, though Urarara could of created them if he wanted XD, though i take back that part but i still think he got his powers from Rukia but its just my theroy >: )

[Assassin]

well its great that you have a theory, but theres nothing to back up your theory. Provide some solid evidence, not assumptions.

[Kraco]

I don't get the idea behind the Kaien reincarnation theory at all. What makes it so special or even relevant? It's not like Kaien was any exceptional shinigami, so it wouldn't explain Ichigo's powers at all. And Ichigo has normal parents, he has his own identity and has never had any Kaien flashbacks or anything. And in anime it's not all too uncommon for characters to look alike, so that's no reason. And besides, if a soul is reborn, why would it affect the looks of a person anyway. The only thing this theory does is degrade Ichigo by making him just an extension of some dude who got owned by a slightly above average hollow (no matter if the hollow was experimental or not).

Was the Hollow-Ichigo during Byakuya fight similar to the hybrid Aizen was trying to create and Urahara did? Or was it just an ordinary Hollow? If it was something similar but not exactly like the hybrid, it would most likely mean Ichigo would end up like the failed experiments, if he for some reason couldn't stop the transformation like he did in the Byakuya fight. Unless the method Urahara was using to surface Ichigo's shinigami powers under the shop wasn't infact a proper method at all, but the very method he had used to create the hybrid in the first place, in the past. It would seem risky to duplicate that experiment, though...

[Hakeem_21]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
I wouldn't call it stupid... But seeing as his mother got killed by a crappy hollow like Gran Fisher leads me to believe that she had no Shinigami powers...

I'm gonna go with the theory that Ichigo is simply a freak of nature...



Thats why i think its stupid cause if she had shingami powers and she gets killed by a weakass hollow.

If thats the reason Ichigo has so much spirit power,i will lose the respect for bleach that i have now.

Ichigo being a freak of nature i dont like either cause there must be a real reason he could see spirits and got so much spirit power when he became shingami.

[XanBcoo]

@Kraco: I don't think Ichigo is neccessarily Kaien's reincarnation, but I really think they are in some strange way connected. That's the way it seems to me, at least.

And good point about Hollow-Ichigo. I hadn't considered that his hybrid form might just be another "failed experiment." I'm very curious to see how the Hogyouku works.

[ChaosK]

maybe ichigo's dad fucked shiba kukakku....what?

real theory, ichigo couldnt have gotten his powers from rukia because...why would urahara set off a device he deemed dangerous and thought to be unethical into a girl he meets? obviously it was never released inside rukia or she wouldnt have lost to that first hollow in the first episode, she would've made the transformation ichigo did giving her immense powers, this didnt happen proving that rukia has not and never had hollow powers inside of her.

Bud and hakeem make a good point, ichigo's mom posessed no power at all (probably) or else she would've at least put a fight up against the grand fisher, from the flashback we got, she was instantly killed...but what about his dad? his dad gave ichigo something before ichigo went to urahara's before the invasion, do u think his dad knows something? or has a connection some how? maybe his dad is a part hollow.

[el_boss]

Ichigo's mother could very well have had shinigami powers, but just like Ichigo she just might have not released them. And before Ichigo got shinigami powers he had certain "spirit abilities" but he couldn't fight for shit against the hollow anyway.

[DarthEnderX]

I think that what Chaos says is the point though even though he misses it.

The hybrid is safely sealed up inside Rukia. But then she goes and does something nobody expects her to do. Something thats a crime for her to do, so why would anyone think she'd do it. She gives her death god powers to a human. I'm surprised people are so willing to write off that this might have had inintended side effects. Maybe the thing inside her went with her powers, afterall, she didn't know it was there. Maybe all it did was leak a little. Maybe the ball is still inside Rukia, but it can still be the reason for Ichigo's powers. It doesn't have to have ever given her powers, because it was sealed up before. And afterwards, it was either gone, or resealed. It's not likely that Uruhara tested the effects of giving away your Death God powers would have on the ball.

And on the point of why Ichigo is so powerful, it's very likely that any freakish power levels is a direct result of him BEING part Hollow. Aizen himself said it, being a Death God that's part Hollow allows you to surpass Death God limitations. Thus, the reason Ichigo has grown so strong, so quickly is most likely just because he's part Hollow.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
And on the point of why Ichigo is so powerful, it's very likely that any freakish power levels is a direct result of him BEING part Hollow. Aizen himself said it, being a Death God that's part Hollow allows you to surpass Death God limitations. Thus, the reason Ichigo has grown so strong, so quickly is most likely just because he's part Hollow.

Ichigo has always been inordinately strong (that is, assuming he didn't get the hollow powers from Rukia), so I think it's something else.

[Mgslee]

More theories!

About Ichigo.
Perhaps is mother was a former shinigami who moved to earth and used Urahara's illegal Gagai. So she would be completely drained of her abilities, but that doesnt mean that natural abilites arent passed on to her children. Perhaps she had the ability to still see hollows but ignored it until little Ichigo fell in to that trap. Ichigo's mother saw what was happening and did the only thing that she could, sacrfice her self. This also might help explain why that hollow thought Ichago's mother tasted so good.

Unohana (Or whatever that Medical Captains name is...) is probably being kept alive by Aizen for a good reason. My theory is that Aizen needs someone to extract the Hogyuko from Rukia (Dead or alive doesnt really matter). He can simply make all the Captains bend to their knees and force her to do his bidding. Having her gather all the Captains plays right in to Aizen's plans.

When I think about it, Ichigo getting hollow powers from that pit seems almost to easy. I wanna seesome crazy flash back that shows that Ichigo's mother and Urahara are connected...

Just more stuff to throw in to the fire i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Mae]

I'm kinda late watching this ep, so I'd just like to comment on what some other people have said....

I think it made good sense for Aizen to have faked his death since this allowed him to secretly take over the command room and manipulate events by sending out official-seeming commands. And yes, it's nice to finally know why Rukia's so important. And why she suddenly became so weak.

I also think, from reading the posted manga and Bleach-society's subs, that Uruhara placed the ball of energy inside Rukia long ago, before he left soul society. He simply took advantage of her mistake on earth and used it to hide her in the fake body (Or possibly he created the opportunity? Hard to tell). Previously I had thought of Uruhara as one of the good guys... But he didn't even warn Rukia about what he had done to her, and he tricked her into using the altered fake body. He obviously has his own motives and isn't above using others without their knowledge or consent. I wonder if he's just using the kids at his shop? Maybe he's experimented on them as well...

It's still somewhat unclear why Aizen didn't go after Rukia sooner, or why Uruhara felt he needed to hide her since she's been fine up until now. Maybe making her human neutralizes the energy ball somehow? And what would happen to it if she is killed?

I think it's pretty obvious that Ichigo's uber powers are explained by the fact that he's a shinigami/hollow hybrid, and likely Aizen doesn't know that yet. Now, how this happened exactly is still unclear, and I think several of the ideas posted here are possible:

1. When Rukia transferred her powers to Ichigo the energy ball affected him somehow. Either it was transferred to him or it's powers changed him in some way so that he could become this hybrid.

2. Uruhara deliberately made him into a hybrid by almost killing him earlier during the trial in the pit.

3. Ichigo is actually one of Aizen's successful experiments (even though Aizen doesn't know it). Kaien's soul merged with the hollow that took him over as shown in the flashback, and the combined being was reborn as Ichigo.

4. Some combination of the above theories.

I just want to see Aizen's face when he finds out Ichigo already has the power he is seeking.

[Vegechan]

Ichigo getting his powers from the pit seems too obvious. And if we just learned anything from Bleach, it's that the least obvious is most likely.

I know there isn't much evidence to my theory, but then again, what evidence was there that Aizen was the main villian? I'm just trying to look at this outside of the box. I always thought the pit being the source of his hollow abilities was too obvious, even before the Aizen twist.

Yes, I am aware that he had powers before Rukia was involved. But so does his sisters. Which leds me to believe the source of those powers came from heritage of some sort, and seeing how his dad is completely clueless to the spirit world, it is most likely his mother. Possible that it's somewhere else down the line, like grandfather or something.

But even then, when Ichigo gains Shinigami powers, he was too powerful. Everything up until now has just been him understanding how to wield all this power. Even when Renji and Byakuya came to the Earth realm to take Rukia, he didn't fully understand how to use his power. If he was able to use his Soul Slayer's ultimate attack he most likely would have beaten them at that point.

He technically hasn't gotten stronger, instead he's just learning how to use all this power that he has. This power was given to him when Rukia transferred her powers over to him. Like I said before, yes he was able to break the binding spell, and yes he could see spirits, but that just meant he was well connected to the spirit world (possibly even being Kaien's reincarnation.)

When Ichigo actually escaped from the pit, his eyes glowed firecly like a hallow in the dust, as well as the mask forming. While everyone assumes that's when the Hallow form attached to him, I think it was his Hallow form being able to take shape, and escape, whch would explain why he looked like a hallow upon exit (glowing eyes and all.)

Again, I don't have much evidence, just major speculation, but I feel that it does still fit and it's the most obvious answer, which what I think it isn't. So I might not have much evidence, but then again, what evidence was there about Aizen?

[XanBcoo]

It's still somewhat unclear why Aizen didn't go after Rukia sooner, or why Uruhara felt he needed to hide her since she's been fine up until now. Maybe making her human neutralizes the energy ball somehow?
0.o those questions were answered in this episode. Aizen explained that by the time he learned that the Hogyouku was inside Rukia, she was already hidden in the human world, inside an untraceable gigai (untraceable because it turned the user into a regular human spirit). It seems he couldn't go after her sooner.

Also, I think people attrbuting Ichigo's natural strength to the Hollow hybrid is kinda weird, because he is only able to use that strength when the Hollow is awakened. Any other abilities have nothing to do with him using that power, or overcoming any power-cap. That's the way it seems, at least.

[darkmetal505]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
damn, darkmetal505 and all the other manga prophets are so elite......
I mean, only someone as clever as him could've devised a plan to DOWNLOAD RAR FILES from bleach7.com

im not tryin to say im awesome, I was just spoiler removed.

User has been warned for spoiling. Refer to your PM as to why.
GotWoot Moderator

[Munsu]

Those comments are not welcomed, thank you.

[KoKo37]

Originally posted by: darkmetal505


Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
damn, darkmetal505 and all the other manga prophets are so elite......
I mean, only someone as clever as him could've devised a plan to DOWNLOAD RAR FILES from bleach7.com

im not tryin to say im awesome, I was just SPOILER REMOVED

well um, does your theroy come from the anime or the manga? if its from the anime please post your theroy, if its from the manga wtf are u telling us for.

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: KoKo37
well um, does your theroy come from the anime or the manga? if its from the anime please post your theroy, if its from the manga wtf are u telling us for.


Ichigo's powers are explained in the manga. You will just have to wait for it.

[Kensee]

Originally posted by: Jadugar


Originally posted by: KoKo37
well um, does your theroy come from the anime or the manga? if its from the anime please post your theroy, if its from the manga wtf are u telling us for.


Ichigo's powers are explained in the manga. You will just have to wait for it.

Till then, hes a freak of nature. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Aizen is very intersting, when you first learn about his plan and the more you go into it, the more of a "omg friken smartty villian" he be. He planned out everythign! Maybe He even planned in the peopel trying to save Rukia (since he's been aorund urahara and knows of his device, he'd probabaly realized that urahara wouldnt want the device to fall in aizen's or anyone'es hands ... thus he would plot a rescue attempt).

Lets just say he outsmarted everyone -_-.

And remember, the quiet ones with glasses are always the first one to do a mind fawk!

Edit: everything else was said arealdy in the last 8 pages -_-. Also I'm back!!!! computer fully fixed! Time to watch the episodes I missed and play UT2K4!

[Oolite]

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
reincarnation? theres a obvious reason, but if I posted, it would be a spoiler.

Yes, some people think too much. They just ignored the obvious.

Use Occam's Razor.

His sisters also has the power, genetics or just all freaks?

I take the simplest solution, but then I could be wrong.

[yapchagi]

Spoiler Removed. User has been warned.
The next person to spoil in this thread gets a temp ban.

GotWoot Moderator

[mage]

Don't quote spoilers.

GotWoot Moderator

[heero]

LIES

[Munsu]

I hope all of you guys get banned for attempts at spoiling, and failing very badly at it...

[Inazuma]

Is it possible that Rukia will be able to fight again ?

[Munsu]

Well if she dies... I doubt it...


And seeing as how she is in Soul Society at the moment, she was not transformed into a human, so if she survives, I guess she could make some sort of recovery since she is no longer inside the gigai that prevented it...

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
Well if she dies... I doubt it...

And seeing as how she is in Soul Society at the moment, she was not transformed into a human, so if she survives, I guess she could make some sort of recovery since she is no longer inside the gigai that prevented it...
But she doesn't have any shinigami powers, right? Are they going to grow back as well?

[Dezalanel]

Are you not understanding what the gigai did? It prevented her from regaining her shingami powers now with it gone she SHOULD recover them fully. That is of course if she survives this ordeal.

[Kraco]

Man, it would suck if she didn't get her powers back. I'm hoping for great comedy episodes of Ichigo-taichou "teaching" Rukia-fuku taichou to use her zanpaktou...

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Dezalanel
Are you not understanding what the gigai did? It prevented her from regaining her shingami powers now with it gone she SHOULD recover them fully. That is of course if she survives this ordeal.
I recall Rukia saying in episode 1 that Ichigo took all of her powers when she just wanted give him a portion. It seems a little wierd that shinigamis can go around making everyone else into shinigamis without losing their powers (maybe that's why it's forbidden though). And didn't the gigai prevent her from regaining her strenght? I wasn't aware that strenght is = shinigami power. I tought they just meant her strenght in general. I don't think they actually have said that a real gigai helps them regain their shinigami powers after bestowing them upon someone else.

[masamuneehs]

god... now it comes to be a risk to view Discussion topics because brainless idiots start leading on about all sorts of spoilers...

And, it seems pretty clear from Aizen's explanation that Rukia will NOT regain her powers, as the Gigai that Urahara gave her is supposed to suck away all remaining power and thus conceal the wearer from Soul Society's eye.

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: el_boss
And didn't the gigai prevent her from regaining her strenght? I wasn't aware that strenght is = shinigami power. I tought they just meant her strenght in general. I don't think they actually have said that a real gigai helps them regain their shinigami powers after bestowing them upon someone else.

Rukia was using demon magic and was puzzled why it was so weak and wasn't getting stronger as time passed. I don't think demon magic falls in with general strenght.

[Kensee]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
god... now it comes to be a risk to view Discussion topics because brainless idiots start leading on about all sorts of spoilers...

And, it seems pretty clear from Aizen's explanation that Rukia will NOT regain her powers, as the Gigai that Urahara gave her is supposed to suck away all remaining power and thus conceal the wearer from Soul Society's eye.

Hrm but did she completly lose all her powers? She was still able to cast demon arts (rather weak ones) on some hollows which leads me to believe she didn't fully lose EVERYTHING. Who knows, but if Aizen obliterates her (seeing how the thing he's after is INSIDE her) then she won't have to worry about gainin back her power anyhow ....

[The Heretic Azazel]

We don't know if she can get her powers back yet, just that if she remained in the gigai for a long enough period, she would. It's not clear if she was in it long enough.

[DarthEnderX]

Basically, what my understanding was that, Rukia gave Ichigo her powers. After awhile those powers would come back to her on her own. But the "gigai" or human form that Urahara gave her prevented her from doing that, and would instead take away all the rest of her power until she was a normal human.

I think she's still wearing the gigai also. After all, the others are able to be in SS in human form, so unless they peeled her out of it she's probably still wearing it.

[darkmetal505]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
Basically, what my understanding was that, Rukia gave Ichigo her powers. After awhile those powers would come back to her on her own. But the "gigai" or human form that Urahara gave her prevented her from doing that, and would instead take away all the rest of her power until she was a normal human.

I think she's still wearing the gigai also. After all, the others are able to be in SS in human form, so unless they peeled her out of it she's probably still wearing it.

Well im sure they would have noticed that she had a gigai on her or something. I think its the device thats preventing her power from returning.

[Jadugar]

There is a barrier around the device so it has no effect whatsoever on Rukia.

[darkmetal505]

Originally posted by: Jadugar
There is a barrier around the device so it has no effect whatsoever on Rukia.

maybe it doesnt directly, but when she thrust her sword into Ichigo, there may have been some weird hocus pocus.

[Jadugar]

This is not Harry Porter.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Kraco
Rukia was using demon magic and was puzzled why it was so weak and wasn't getting stronger as time passed. I don't think demon magic falls in with general strenght.
Do you need to be a shinigami to be able to do demon magic? Shoudn't it be enough to have spirit power and the knowledge of how to do it?


Originally posted by: DarthEnder
Basically, what my understanding was that, Rukia gave Ichigo her powers. After awhile those powers would come back to her on her own.
I said it earlier: wouldn't this imply that they could go and make shinigamis all over the place. I mean Aizen could create a shit load of shinigamis and make them his subordinates.

[Munsu]

Shinigamis don't go around doing that because it's illegal in Soul Society...

Technically Aizen would be able to, but it would take a shitload of time... And we don't know if it will affect all people like it did to Ichigo... Probably if the same thing was done to someone else he would've ended up being a shitty ass shinigami, so why bother?

And to answer you question about gigais...


Gigais usually help shinigamis recover their spiritual power, they are made up with spiritrons (or whatever they are)... The gigai that was placed on rukia didn't posses this, rather it was made of something (unknown to us) that aborbed her spiritual power, trying to transform her into a human being...

From what I can see since she is in soul society, she didn't go through the transformation so she should still be capable of recovering her lost spiritual powers (I'm not sure about this though, I don't really understand what they are trying to say when they say "to make her human")...


And you are misunderstanding the point he was trying to make with demon arts, He was merely stating that her demon magic was so weak because the gigai was preventing her from recovering her spiritual powers...


@DarthEnder, there was something important that was ommited in the anime from the manga... This should've happened right after Rukia was taken to Soul Society...

Some investigators found and examined Rukia's gigai and commented on something along the lines of "Wow, I've never since a gigai like this before... Whomever did it must've been very talented..." Of course, you can tie up this with whatever we have just learned from Urahara in this episode...

I think someone else mentioned this earlier in this thread... maybe someone can post the pics to what I'm reffering to if I haven't done so already...

[el_boss]

@Bud: With all that said, I still don't think it makes any sence that she could get her own powers back, but she might be able to start from scratch and aquire all new powers. Obviously I know that created shinigamis don't get as strong as Ichigo, but then again Rukia was rather weak to begin with. If your as strong as Aizen you probably get strong spawn. Regarding the gigai: spiritual power isn't = shinigami power. Even Ichigo's little sisters have spiritual power.

[Munsu]

There's a lot I would like to argue from your post since most of it doesn't make sense to me, but I'll go with this...



What in my entire post makes you think that it doesn't make sense for Rukia to regain her spiritual powers?


What really doesn't make sense is your reasoning on a "strong spawn"...

[Jadugar]

Put your hands up if you are tired of

Budweineken VS el_boss

[Munsu]

I'll put my hands up...

But what can I do...

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
There's a lot I would like to argue from your post since most of it doesn't make sense to me, but I'll go with this...


What in my entire post makes you think that it doesn't make sense for Rukia to regain her spiritual powers?
I didn't mean that your post doesn't make sence. I just meant in general, the fact that she would be able to regain her "old" shinigami powers doesn't make sence. I know it's not the same thing, but it would be like Ichigo being able to regain the powers he got from Rukia instead of unlocking his own. It just seems stupid that she would be able to give all of her power to Ichigo (including her zanpaktou, right?) and then they get destroyed and then they just grow back.

Let me just make something clear. I'm actually not arguing aginst if Rukia will get her powers back. I just think it would be really stupid and just an easy solution to get Rukia back into the game. You might be right though, but I've come to expect more from a show like Bleach. I'm just theorising, obviously I don't know what will happen.

Edit: Why doesn't the strong spawn make sence?

[Munsu]

Rukia's spirit whatever (what was destroyed from Ichigo) is not destroyed, so she still possesses her spiritual powers... What the gigai did was absorbed any spiritual power that was created from Rukia in order to recuperate... So with the absense of this gigai, I still don't know what makes you think that her powers can't finally be restored? Rukia's powers don't reside inside Ichigo by the way... She doesn't have to get her powers back from him if that's what's confusing you...


About the strong spawn thing...

There's just no correlation with Ichigo being strong and Rukia being weak... and Aizen being strong being able to create a "strong pawn"...

I don't see what Rukia being weak has anything to do with what you are alluding, since Ichigo himself got his powers from Rukia (weak Rukia at that) and still is one strong mofo...

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
Rukia's spirit whatever (what was destroyed from Ichigo) is not destroyed, so she still possesses her spiritual powers... What the gigai did was absorbed any spiritual power that was created from Rukia in order to recuperate... So with the absense of this gigai, I still don't know what makes you think that her powers can't finally be restored? Rukia's powers don't reside inside Ichigo by the way... She doesn't have to get her powers back from him if that's what's confusing you...
It's not that I don't believe that she can't get her powers back per sey. I just feel that there should be some other negative side than just being punished by SS. That would mean as I said before even if it takes alot of time someone that doesn't care what SS says could go around making shinigamis. But maybe it will be as you said, that they will be weak, but there hasn't been anything that has said that they will.

The thing is that what made her inital situation in the show special, was that it felt like a sacrifice that she gave her powers to Ichigo. But if the powers would just grow back, that whole part of the show would have been unnecessary somehow. It raises some questions for me at least, which you might be able to answer. If the powers are that easy to regain, why did she stay on earth? Seems that she just as well could have gone to SS, it's rather wierd if shinigamis have to be on earth to regain their powers. If she was afraid that she would get punished if she returned, then did she plan on staying on earth forever? If so why did she care if she regained her powers at all.


About the strong spawn thing...

There's just no correlation with Ichigo being strong and Rukia being weak... and Aizen being strong being able to create a "strong pawn"...

I don't see what Rukia being weak has anything to do with what you are alluding, since Ichigo himself got his powers from Rukia (weak Rukia at that) and still is one strong mofo...
It's not really logical that a weak shinigami would create a strong one, normally. But obviously there is something special about Ichigo or Rukia that lead to Ichigo becoming abnormaly strong even with just Rukia's powers. One reason I can think of is that Ichigo has had the hollow thing all along and it allowed him to excede Rukias limits.

So what I'm saying is that a strong shinigami should logically get a strong "spawn" or whatever you want to call it, since he/she has more reiatsu to work with. Well we have only seen one shinigami creation so anything could be possible I guess, it could even be random for all we know, but that would be wierd.

[masamuneehs]

URUSAI URUSAI URUSAI URUSAI!!!!!!!

Holy Flame Wars Batman! This is getting out of hand! (not to mention boring, Robin)

From what I heard and understood, the two cases in point are this: Some think that Rukia's powers are FOREVER lost by Urahara's special Gigai. Other's think that her powers are only TEMPORARILY lost.

As for the "Creating other Shinigami by giving your power to others"
It is quite obviously against the rules. Obviosly someone could ignore them.
BUT, as of this point we have NO IDEA whether powers (once given) can ever return.
IF such transfered powers CAN return in time, then Boss has a point, someone could make an army of Shinigami that way.
IF such transfered powers CANNOT return in time, then Rukia will not get stronger ever (since Ichigo took almost all of her powers)
However, Rukia's transfering her powers to Ichigo was still quite a big deal. Think of it this way: They just met. Ichigo tried to help her fight the Hollow. Rukia is losing. She TRUSTS this stranger to help her, totally ignoring the rules of SS. Being raised by Byakuya, I'd think she'd be prepared to die rather than break the rules, in most cases. But obviously something about Ichigo (KAien) made her want to break the rules and save him and his family, thus giving the powers.

As for the "Spawn" issue.
I'm sorta confused here too... Do you mean like an initial return point of powers (say, after a completley draining fight or after transfering powers) where one's Reiatsu would return to?

Also, if Ichigo's example serves us at all, it shows that a great deal of the amount of powers transfered can depend on the person receiving the powers. Thus, ANY Shinigami transferring their powers would be hard-pressed to calculate what their Reiatsu/Power level would be like immediatley after the transfer. Also, recuperation and the question of IF all powers can return after a transfer are still quite up in the air. It seems quite risky for even Aizen to go about creating Shinigami in this way.

EDIT: And I'm not saying that my opinion isn't any better or worse than anyone elses. I just feel like this conversation needs some fresh blood in it... (perhaps we just need to wait until 62...)

[Assertn]

First of all: What kind of villain willingly gives up some of his power to create a team of pathetic lackeys? I've seen cases where villains STEAL power from lackeys to increase their own, but never the other way around.

and el_boss, it sounds like your whole argument is based around what you are HOPING to be the case, rather than what you are rationalizing to be the case. Frankly, I'd have to disagree with you completely on your opinion that Rukia not getting her powers back naturally would have a negative impact on the entertainment value of the show. I've been anxious to see Rukia get her power back ever since the first few episodes.

[Dezalanel]

I think you guys are confused on how transferring shinigami powers works. When Rukia gave her powers to Ichigo in the first episode her powers were supposed to come back and recover, while at the same time Ichigo would lose them. BUT since Rukia had the gigai this did not happen. Now since she is out of the power draining gigai there should be no reason why her powers will not recover. Ichigo will not lose his Shinigami powers though since he has his OWN shinigami powers not Rukias anymore.

[XanBcoo]

Dezalanel brings up a good point. I personally think Rukia might be able to get her powers back, for the reasons Bud stated.
Also:


But obviously there is something special about Ichigo or Rukia that lead to Ichigo becoming abnormaly strong even with just Rukia's powers. One reason I can think of is that Ichigo has had the hollow thing all along and it allowed him to excede Rukias limits.
I'm still 100% certain that a shinigami is only able to exceed the limits of a normal shinigami by actually becoming a hybrid and using the hollow powers. Not just having a hollow spirit present inside them. Ichigo never displayed any Hollow powers in the first arc of the series.

And another, minor point:


It just seems stupid that she would be able to give all of her power to Ichigo (including her zanpaktou, right?) and then they get destroyed and then they just grow back.
Rukia did not give Ichigo her actual zanpakuto. Zangetsu is Ichigo's, and always has been from episode 1. That is as I understand it at least.

[ChaosK]

im not sure what timeline you guys have in mind but i was thinking that urahara gave rukia the gigai well before rukia met ichigo, or else why would she be as weak as not be able to defeat a hollow that ichigo was able to slice up, being its his first time? it makes no sense, rukia did not transfer spirit power to ichigo, merely shinigami powers, ichigo had a shit load of spirit power himself and thats the reason why his sword was enormous, not becuase it was rukias. so im thinking ever since that given period where rukia met urahara she's been getting weaker little by little, to the extent that she could not even fight a hollow anymore.

[Dezalanel]

Urahara gave Rukia the gigai after she gave her powers to Ichigo. She would not have it before that because the only reason your in a gigai is to recover your powers as a shinigami. Also people seem to think Rukia is still in the gigai, this is not the case when she went to SS she was taken out of it.

[XanBcoo]

Urahara is shown offering the Gigai to Rukia sitting in the street with her white gi on. This was obviously after she gave her shinigami powers to Ichigo. She didn't need a gigai when she came to earth. A gigai is used for recovering powers, but it's main function is interaction with the living world (stated earlier). Perhaps Rukia is just naturally weak, and isn't able to face a hollow one-on-one. You could argue the only reason she was sent was because of some secret orders Aizen issued.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
I'm still 100% certain that a shinigami is only able to exceed the limits of a normal shinigami by actually becoming a hybrid and using the hollow powers. Not just having a hollow spirit present inside them. Ichigo never displayed any Hollow powers in the first arc of the series.
Well since Ichigo is the only one that has a hollow spirit reciding inside him we can't really say anything for certain. So Ichigo's insane power level even now in SS (except for when the hollow takes over his body) has nothing to do with the hollow? That is certainly a valid argument, but then where does Ichigo get his immense strenght from? I would like to think that it's not just because he is the "chosen one" or whatever you like to call it.


Rukia did not give Ichigo her actual zanpakuto. Zangetsu is Ichigo's, and always has been from episode 1. That is as I understand it at least.
If she didn't give it to Ichigo then why did it dissapeared? It can't have anything to with the actual transfer since Ichigo still had his broken zanpaktou when he lost all her powers. I was under the impression that the Zangetsu is sort of the soul of the sword and that he "lives" in the sword. But I guess it could just as well be that he "lives" inside the shinigami and manifests himself as a zanpaktou.


Originally posted by: Dezalanel
I think you guys are confused on how transferring shinigami powers works. When Rukia gave her powers to Ichigo in the first episode her powers were supposed to come back and recover, while at the same time Ichigo would lose them. BUT since Rukia had the gigai this did not happen. Now since she is out of the power draining gigai there should be no reason why her powers will not recover. Ichigo will not lose his Shinigami powers though since he has his OWN shinigami powers not Rukias anymore.
I wasn't aware of this fact. I must say that Rukia regaining her powers makes alot more sence now and also why they don't go around creating shinigamis. But there is still an issue though. From what you're saying it seems like normally she would regain her powers at same pace that Ichigo loses his (hers). But what happens if he loses all her powers, like for example if someone cuts his spirit-link (can't recall what it's called, but you know like Buykuya did) and she isn't able to absorb anything at that point? Will the lost power be kept in some kind of pool until Rukia is able to aquire it or is it lost forever?

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Dezalanel
Urahara gave Rukia the gigai after she gave her powers to Ichigo. She would not have it before that because the only reason your in a gigai is to recover your powers as a shinigami. Also people seem to think Rukia is still in the gigai, this is not the case when she went to SS she was taken out of it.

Yikes, that's just flat out wrong. A gigai is described as a faux body, designed to simulate human bodies. If she was wearing that in the first episode, everyone would see her. Not to mention she wouldn't be able to turn into a butterfly or float all over the place and junk.

[ChaosK]

Originally posted by: Dezalanel
Urahara gave Rukia the gigai after she gave her powers to Ichigo. She would not have it before that because the only reason your in a gigai is to recover your powers as a shinigami. Also people seem to think Rukia is still in the gigai, this is not the case when she went to SS she was taken out of it.


are you telling me that rukia was never injured before this fight against this hollow? i bet everybody has a gigai for when they go to the human world. Urahara should be operating on a gigai at the moment because he cant open a store if he's invisible can he? i cant think of any raeson why urahara should be recovering. the gigai is for what assertn said, faux bodies and rukia already had that faux body in episode one. this means that she got it before she met ichigo. didnt she disappear after ichigo fought with the hollow? she probably ran away to put the faux body in to appear in school the next day.

[anphorus]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Rukia did not give Ichigo her actual zanpakuto. Zangetsu is Ichigo's, and always has been from episode 1. That is as I understand it at least.
The way it comes across in the series seems to be that someone's zanpaktou is a part of themselves, an extension of their soul. A shinigami seems to create their own zanpaktou. Thus, I always thought that the zanpaktou Ichigo used was always zangetsu.

Now the evidence I present here will be from the manga. However, both of these images are from the first chapter, so i think that's okay.

As we all know, soul slayers, unreleased, are pretty much indistinguishable from each other. Now, the one thing that seperates all soul slayers is the decoration on the guard, and it is this that I shall be investigating.

Image the first: Rukia's soul slayer as seen prior to her attempt to transfer her powers to Ichigo.
Here. (http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/391/bleach0101429zo.png)

Image the second: Ichigo's zanpaktou after said power transference.
Here. (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/9430/bleach0101524bg.png)

Now, the second image isn't the clearest, I know, but it's the best I could find witout trawling through 60 manga chapters. Now, as you will notice, both guard designs are similar, however, on close inspection there are subtle differences.

1) The "flame" part on the part of Ichigo's sword has a rounded part at the bottom of the flame, which rukia's doesn't (hard to see on this image, but I'm sure it is there. If anyone has a better picture please post it up.) And most noticably:

2) On Rukia's sword the top of the flame points towards the round part of the comma shaped design. On Ichigo's sword the top of the flame points towards the tail part of the comma design.

I know that some people might think this isn't enough, but for me it is irrefutable proof that Ichigo had zangetsu since the very first episode. (Phew, that was a long one)

[Ban Kai]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
I feel like Ichigo had to have gotten some of his powers from his mom. His dad has no abilities whatsoever, yet Ichigo, Karian and Suzu (his sisters) all have some kind of special relation with spirits.

I'm also still one of those "Ichigo is some kind of reincarnation of Kaien Kukaku" believers. The similair appearances, attitudes, along with the fact that both are the only confirmed Hollow/Shinigami hybrids that we know of really make me think Ichigo and Kaien have some connection.

How Urahara knows this (if he knows it), why Rukia was selected (if there is any special reason that it was her) to hide the Crumbling Treasure Ball in, how Aizen got that information are still all very mysterious to me.

If his mother had a lot of spirit power then wouldn't she have kicked Grand Fisher's @$$? I mean even Ichigo with his crappy unknown named sword beat Grand Fisher. I think his mom would be able to if she knew about spirit world like that. I don't think she would have died so easily. And I don't think she saw that girl too, so yeah ~.~.

[aznimperialx]

Originally posted by: Ban Kai


Originally posted by: masamuneehs
I feel like Ichigo had to have gotten some of his powers from his mom. His dad has no abilities whatsoever, yet Ichigo, Karian and Suzu (his sisters) all have some kind of special relation with spirits.

I'm also still one of those "Ichigo is some kind of reincarnation of Kaien Kukaku" believers. The similair appearances, attitudes, along with the fact that both are the only confirmed Hollow/Shinigami hybrids that we know of really make me think Ichigo and Kaien have some connection.

How Urahara knows this (if he knows it), why Rukia was selected (if there is any special reason that it was her) to hide the Crumbling Treasure Ball in, how Aizen got that information are still all very mysterious to me.

If his mother had a lot of spirit power then wouldn't she have kicked Grand Fisher's @$$? I mean even Ichigo with his crappy unknown named sword beat Grand Fisher. I think his mom would be able to if she knew about spirit world like that. I don't think she would have died so easily. And I don't think she saw that girl too, so yeah ~.~.

she didn't see the girl, only saw ichigo

[Ban Kai]

Originally posted by: aznimperialx


Originally posted by: Ban Kai


Originally posted by: masamuneehs
I feel like Ichigo had to have gotten some of his powers from his mom. His dad has no abilities whatsoever, yet Ichigo, Karian and Suzu (his sisters) all have some kind of special relation with spirits.

I'm also still one of those "Ichigo is some kind of reincarnation of Kaien Kukaku" believers. The similair appearances, attitudes, along with the fact that both are the only confirmed Hollow/Shinigami hybrids that we know of really make me think Ichigo and Kaien have some connection.

How Urahara knows this (if he knows it), why Rukia was selected (if there is any special reason that it was her) to hide the Crumbling Treasure Ball in, how Aizen got that information are still all very mysterious to me.

If his mother had a lot of spirit power then wouldn't she have kicked Grand Fisher's @$$? I mean even Ichigo with his crappy unknown named sword beat Grand Fisher. I think his mom would be able to if she knew about spirit world like that. I don't think she would have died so easily. And I don't think she saw that girl too, so yeah ~.~.

she didn't see the girl, only saw ichigo

Yeah so if she didn't see the girl then she doesn't have high spirit power, so she couldn't have passed on any spirit power to Ichigo, and his sisters.

[darkmetal505]

Ichigo's spirit power doesnt have to derive from his parents... maybe he pulled it out of the wazoo...

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: anphorus
I know that some people might think this isn't enough, but for me it is irrefutable proof that Ichigo had zangetsu since the very first episode. (Phew, that was a long one)

The proof is that ichigo's sword after he returned to being a shinigami looked the same as it did when byakuya cut it in half. Since his return was using his own shinigami powers instead of rukia's yet still had the same sword (with same damage and everything), then that means his sword was based on his own powers even from the start.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
Rukia already had that faux body in episode one. this means that she got it before she met ichigo. didnt she disappear after ichigo fought with the hollow? she probably ran away to put the faux body in to appear in school the next day.


Urahara is shown offering the Gigai to Rukia sitting in the street with her white robes on. This was obviously after she gave her shinigami powers to Ichigo. She didn't need a gigai when she came to earth
Rukia did not disappear after Ichigo got his powers, she sat there and watched him kick the hollow's ass. Then the episode ended. I suppose she got the gigai in the time between episodes 1 and 2.

[Fudgeman]

GAD its not that hard, some people are born with more spirit power/shinigami power or w/e than others. assuming this isnt an anime show, and that ichigo hadnt gotten the ton of power, the story would be centered around some other individual somewhere else who was born powerfull instead
some people are born strong, some fat, some retarded, ichigo just happened to be a wayne gretzkey shinigami

now the other part.... theres no way to know if ichigo even has the hollow maker ball thingy, it may be in rukia, it may be in him, it may be in rukia but some of its "power" transferred to ichigo, even tho the object as a whole did not move at all

...and whats a wazoo?

[Assassin]

im pretty sure it would be in rukia still, as aizen is after rukia and not ichigo. If there was a possibility that the thing could transfer from one body to another, aizen would be after ichigo as well since he knew that rukia had give him her powers.

[Dezalanel]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: Dezalanel
Urahara gave Rukia the gigai after she gave her powers to Ichigo. She would not have it before that because the only reason your in a gigai is to recover your powers as a shinigami. Also people seem to think Rukia is still in the gigai, this is not the case when she went to SS she was taken out of it.

Yikes, that's just flat out wrong. A gigai is described as a faux body, designed to simulate human bodies. If she was wearing that in the first episode, everyone would see her. Not to mention she wouldn't be able to turn into a butterfly or float all over the place and junk.

Where did I say she was using the gigai all of episode 1??? I specifically said AFTER she gave her powers to Ichigo which is at end of episode 1. Thus as someone mentioned she recieved the gigai between episodes 1 and 2.

[Kensee]

So much speculation ... tsk ...
Next episode should clear up a lot of these questions but uhhh ... I'm pretty sure like many have said before, Ichigo had the power in him... rukia just kinda jiggled it open and Urahara opened the lid ... then his sword;s spirit shatterd the jar and bam ... bankai ichigo.

[Assertn]

ha.....i dunno.....i think you went and mod-edited all of the quotes of you saying it. Couldve sworn last time i checked you said she had the gigai before she left soul society in episode 1 i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[DarthEnderX]

I think Deza has it right in reguards to the "giving your powers" thing. Rukia gave her powers to Ichigo. Over time, they were supposed to come back to her, and Ichigo was supposed to lose the ones she gave her.

Of course she never god her powers back, so Ichigo never lost them till Byakuya took them from him.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
Of course she never god her powers back, so Ichigo never lost them till Byakuya took them from him.

I thought about that back in the episode where he does it. They were saying something about taking rukia's powers away from ichigo, so i was considering the posibility of rukia getting those powers back as a result.

[Munsu]

I don't think one affects the other...

I think even if Ichigo didn't lose Rukia's powers, Rukia should've still recovered her powers if it wasn't for the special gigai...

[FrogKing]

Ok, to switch gears a bit. Speaking of Urahara, do we know who his assistants are? Is the main assistant Urahara's former Vice Captain? What about the two kids are they some kind of creation of his (kinda like the current 12th Captains creation)?

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: FrogKing
Ok, to switch gears a bit. Speaking of Urahara, do we know who his assistants are? Is the main assistant Urahara's former Vice Captain? What about the two kids are they some kind of creation of his (kinda like the current 12th Captains creation)?

I am not quite sure about Tessai (that's the Urahara shop assistant's name im pretty sure) being a Vice Captain... He does have knowledge of Demon Magic (from the training episodes) but we've never seen him carry anything that vaguely resembles a Zanpaktou. That doesn't exclude him from ever being a Shinigami, just makes it seem doubtful that he ever was...

As for Jinta and the Pink girl.. Hmm.. I've always assummed that the Pink Girl waws a robot or artificial being of some sorts. The way she reacts to Hollows, spits out words like a robot and changes on a dime from a shy, timid girl into a hardcore Hollow exterminator always made me think she was a creation. That being said, even though Jinta shows signs of being human, much more than the girl, I'd suppose if she was not human, he'd also be not human.

[Jadugar]

@ Budweineken : Absolutely right.

@ FrogKing : You should have posted your ideas in Bleach Manga.

[Fudgeman]

Tessai was probly some special army guy or sumthing who ran away with urahara, then im guessing the kid was just gifted, like the white haired captain kid except not so much, the girl is probly like frog king says, a creation

for the gigai, theres no way ichigo can have it because rukia wasnt able to regain her powers, end of story

[FrogKing]

@Jadugar: Sorry, I haven't read the manga (yet) so I didn't post there. I always just wondered who they were and now with the whole gigai thing it seemed more relevant as to who they are/were.

[Kensee]

Originally posted by: Fudgeman
Tessai was probly some special army guy or sumthing who ran away with urahara, then im guessing the kid was just gifted, like the white haired captain kid except not so much, the girl is probly like frog king says, a creation

for the gigai, theres no way ichigo can have it because rukia wasnt able to regain her powers, end of story

Yeppp, just like many others have said (about the gigai) anyhow bleach 62 raw is out .. go check it out.
btw nice avatar!

[XanBcoo]

About Ururu (pink girl): When Ichigo was training with Urahara, the first test was to have Ururu attack Ichigo. I remember Urahara saying something like "she was designed as an anti-shinigami soul" or something...Remembering that, I too am starting to think she might be a creation of Uruhara's. As for his vice-captain, I don't really care.

[Fudgeman]

aha! urahara used to be the head of the soul society invention place, and that ugly blue hair guy with the faice paint and sideways hat is now the.....assistant? head of it, the girl is probly an early form of the face paint guys vice captain

btw that has got to be the best sig iv ever seen xanbcoo

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
I remember Urahara saying something like "she was designed as an anti-shinigami soul" or captain

Urahara : She has been trained in anti-shinigami tactics.

Some of her actions are robot like.



Originally posted by: Fudgeman
btw that has got to be the best sig iv ever seen xanbcoo

True. Simple yet creative.

Who needs four pictures in their sig to get themselves noticed. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Anyway, Episode 62 is subbed. See you alll in there.