Williams executed

[Xollence]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_re_us/williams_execution_76;_ylt=Arv8ZEumv6twdGzpn3vsvLU EcP8A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

He could've gotten life in prison if he plead guilty to the crimes. I don't think he should've been executed, but I hate how people are saying he made amends by making children's books against gangs and violence. Writing children's books doesn't make amends for killing 4 people and starting a gang that's killed so many. I hate how hollywood actors get involved in stuff like this. Most of them are so ignorant and just say stupid crap that makes things worse.

[Giboc]

Originally posted by: XollenceI hate how hollywood actors get involved in stuff like this. Most of them are so ignorant and just say stupid crap that makes things worse.

LIKE ARNOLD.


Oh shit, wait

[Terracosmo]

Now all mankind needs to learn is to actually kill people before their crimes get 30 years old. What's up with that anyway?

[masamuneehs]

The REAL question is this: Should people still be executed if they've honestly repented and are trying to make up for their sins?

The guy's been in jail for a long time, maybe he honestly wanted to balance out his evil deeds over the rest of his life...

It just seems sort of sad, that the person who is often executed might have been a reformed and decent person at the time they were killed.

But, of course, you can't really make excuses like that, otherwise everyone starts feigning "I'm a good person now! Don't punish me!"

[XanBcoo]

Petition for Williams' clemency (http://www.cm-p.com/clemency.htm) signed by various Hollywood actors.

I guess it didn't do any good, and why should it have? Just because the man *seemed* to have repented, that doesn't mean he isn't responsible for the crimes he orinally committed.

Personally I'm kinda pissed that he had so many people beleiving he was innocent: "After he was declared dead, his supporters shouted in unison: "The state of California just killed an innocent man," as they walked out of the chamber."

[Honoko]

i'm just against death penalty in general. life in prison w/o parole is a better alternative. the main reason why i don't like it is b/c that death is now on society's hands, which (unfortunately) we're all a part of, despite our rantings and ravings.

as for that guy in particular, i don't think the reasons to keep him alive has any merit since it's obvious to me that he's not innocent of the crimes he had been accused of and "reformed" from his old ways doesn't change the facts. the reason why we should keep him alive is to show that as a society, we are more decent as a whole than the guilty individual. by killing him, society is no better than the murderer.

[Assertn]

It's like, if I get a nobel peace prize, people are supposed to look the other way while I commit 4 murders.

Stupid.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Holy shit, I don't know how many of you saw Al Sharpton trying to sing Williams' praises, but holy shit, he was making all these excuses about questionable trials and witnesses that couldn't be believed even though there was OVERWHELMING though not DNA) evidence to convict him.

Fuck this waste of space, he got what he deserved but way too late. Taxpayers have still been paying the man's way through prison since '79 when he went to the pen.

And why should anyone be unhappy? His death was ten times more honorable and leniant than the people he senselessly killed.

[Assertn]

People insist to keep people alive in prison while complaining about the repercussions of paying taxes for these people.
Once again, people = hypocrisy

[Turkish-S]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
People insist to keep people alive in prison while complaining about the repercussions of paying taxes for these people.
Once again, people = hypocrisy

Wuuutt, thats stupid. the jail in the usa costs 30-40 dollar a day. while here in holland it costs fucking 250 eury's a day. And people are still bitching about taxes.

[darkmetal505]

theres no way of finding out if he really repented though

[Carnage]

Im against execution of criminals. If the person obviously did something so bad that he deserves a fate worse than death, then why not keep him in prison? If he drops the soap just once, then he already will experience a pain worse than death. Hell, id rather be executed than spend 1 month in prison. Dont give criminals the easy way out. Unless their big and black. Then theres noone to ass rape them.

[mr3vi1m0nk3y]

there is no real easy solution to the US's prison problem. the prisons are overcrowded, and most ex-cons end up right back in the system after release. obviously the threat of prison isnt much of a deterrent when the criminal in question has been in and out of the system for most of his life. execution isnt much of a solution either cause we cant kill every criminal, that would just be insane and there is that whole pesky problem with human rights and all i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif. they need to have programs that allow prisoners to learn skills that will be useful in a legal job once they get out and to help pay for the cost of prison they should work in jail. another problem that prisoners would face once they leave is the sigma of being an ex-con. i doubt any employers would hire a guy how commited a strig of robberies. i dont see a solution for that problem though. as for execution i have mixed feelings about it. if a guy goes and rapes and murders a child he should be executed, that kind of scum shouldnt be allowed to live. but execution wouldnt erase their crimes, the victems would still feel the effects of their actions.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Well the first thing we need to do to cut down the overpopulation is to quit locking up every single person with a petty drug possession charge

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Turkish-S


Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
People insist to keep people alive in prison while complaining about the repercussions of paying taxes for these people.
Once again, people = hypocrisy

Wuuutt, thats stupid. the jail in the usa costs 30-40 dollar a day. while here in holland it costs fucking 250 eury's a day. And people are still bitching about taxes.

Wtf. Now THAT'S stupid. Do prisoners in holland get free manicures with their room and board?

God #2: So says the guy not paying taxes.

I don't like paying for something that provides no returns.

[Munsu]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
The guy's been in jail for a long time, maybe he honestly wanted to balance out his evil deeds over the rest of his life...


He never admited wrong doing... How can he be an example of a reformed inmate?

[XanBcoo]

Because he wrote children's books! OOOOOOO!

As morally opposed as I am to the death penalty, I understand the arguments for it. I accept that it happened, and that he deserved punishment (maybe not that punishment), but I will never accept the concept. As far as paying for overpopulated prisons, I think The Heretic Azazel has a good point. A lot of people go to jail who may need not to, and then we turn around and complain how expensive it is to keep someone like Williams alive.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Budweineken


Originally posted by: masamuneehs
The guy's been in jail for a long time, maybe he honestly wanted to balance out his evil deeds over the rest of his life...


He never admited wrong doing... How can he be an example of a reformed inmate?

No, he admitted wrong doing. He was a big gang member and everything.
He just never admitted to the 4 specific murders in question.

[Xollence]

Maybe give them an option of either staying in jail or serving their time in the army. I mean if they're gonna be executed anyway, might as well make them useful and send them off to Iraq. Gives them a chance to redeem themselves. South Korea had something like this a while back. They took criminals and created a special force to invade the North. The plan was cancelled at the last minute and all of them were executed.

[woofcat]

I know i am making a shitty comparison but deal with it.

Hitler did not kill (m)any Jews himself. He army did all the dirty work. So if we tossed Hitler in Jail and he wrote books about loving Jews and how racism is bad would you let him go.

The gang he started is that a gang i will assume since they are known world wide that they move a lot of drugs, and various other illegal activity's. Should the man who started this all be let free?

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Well the first thing we need to do to cut down the overpopulation is to quit locking up every single person with a petty drug possession charge


Hehe, I think rapist and child molestors should be eligible for the death penalty as well. That should help cut down on prison population problems.
You kill an inocent, you should die the same way you killed your victim, if not a more painful death. And if you don't want the state responsible, allow inmates to kill each other.
I'm pro-death penalty, in case you didn't figure it out for yourself. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[The Heretic Azazel]

Seriously, don't even get me started on child molestation.

The system in the U.S. makes me feel like I can go out and rape about 5 kids before I get caught, serve 4 months and be right back on the streets to do it again.

[Ero-Fan]

Yeah, I know. I kinda understand why are system is designed the way it is, but I have a problem with the jury system. Some of these juries I just can't understand how they could let so many people go. People on the jury were the stupid ones who couldn't get out of jury duty. I think we should get rid of juries altogether and just let a judge decide, they know the law better than the avg citizen does.

[Assertn]

Rape varies depending on the definition though. There are some relatively bogus rape situations that a person can get busted for.

[Assassin]

i like how some ppl are still convinced that he repented, and was a changed man.

I can totally see how claiming to be innocent after murdering 4 ppl shows you've repented. And writing childrens book on top of taht, well that MUST mean hes a good person now.


But i dont think death was the answer. Not because 'we dont have the right to decide' or because 'we're the same as the murdere now' but because its an easy way out for the sons of bitches. At the very least, let them rot in prison for the rest of thier natural life. But even then, i dont think its enough. you get a bed, and 3 meals, and the ppl have to pay for it.

I say let the victims family members have a go at them. Let them torture the fucker to thier hearts content, and if he happens to die in the process, so be it. Having to pay for someones food and shelter, someone who's killed you son or daugter, thats not 'justice'.

ps: im sure theres gonna be a few ppl who think im barbaric, and inhumane and bla bla bla....but given the choice, 99% of humans would chose what i've said if this had happened to them.

[kaosoner]

i dont care if dat foo died or lived....... he aint from my family...... besides dat foo was a bitch ass crip.....BDS FOO

[Terracosmo]

Mankind is too fucking soft in general: "We can't take peoples' lives boo hoo i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif" just shut the hell up, if anyone asked me I'd gladly hit the electric chair switch for assholes that shouldn't be around.

I can see some people questioning the dilemma on people who have "repented". But that's why we NEED TO KILL THE DAMN CRIMINALS OFF FASTER!! otherwise we'll just end up with all this bullshit that always happens because people are hypocrites and keep forgetting what has happened. "Bah, who cares, he killed people 30 years ago, that's like forever!". Am I the only one who sees how absolutely sick that is?

[Uchiha Barles]

I find it hard to believe that someone would take a lie like that to the grave when the truth probably would save them. Can someone discuss or direct towards the evidence you all have that this man is actually guilty? Although, personally, foundation of the Crips is enough to merit a most brutal death, so I don't know how much I care. Just for the sake of argument though, link some of the evidence they have against him.

[Giboc]

I have no personal qualms against the death penalty. I don't see nothing wrong with putting a man to death if he commits an atrocious crime.

But guess what? The death penalty is not an effective deterent against crime. Not to mention innocent people do get sent to death occaisonally.

Honestly, it's being used as "Well shit, jails are too fucking crowded. Let's just kill 'em."

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: Assassin
i like how some ppl are still convinced that he repented, and was a changed man.

I can totally see how claiming to be innocent after murdering 4 ppl shows you've repented. And writing childrens book on top of taht, well that MUST mean hes a good person now.


But i dont think death was the answer. Not because 'we dont have the right to decide' or because 'we're the same as the murdere now' but because its an easy way out for the sons of bitches. At the very least, let them rot in prison for the rest of thier natural life. But even then, i dont think its enough. you get a bed, and 3 meals, and the ppl have to pay for it.

I say let the victims family members have a go at them. Let them torture the fucker to thier hearts content, and if he happens to die in the process, so be it. Having to pay for someones food and shelter, someone who's killed you son or daugter, thats not 'justice'.

ps: im sure theres gonna be a few ppl who think im barbaric, and inhumane and bla bla bla....but given the choice, 99% of humans would chose what i've said if this had happened to them.


Haha, you're too soft. People in general don't know how to torture a person properly. We have professionals in that area, I say we let them work them over, that way its done properly.



Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Mankind is too fucking soft in general: "We can't take peoples' lives boo hoo " just shut the hell up, if anyone asked me I'd gladly hit the electric chair switch for assholes that shouldn't be around.

I can see some people questioning the dilemma on people who have "repented". But that's why we NEED TO KILL THE DAMN CRIMINALS OFF FASTER!! otherwise we'll just end up with all this bullshit that always happens because people are hypocrites and keep forgetting what has happened. "Bah, who cares, he killed people 30 years ago, that's like forever!". Am I the only one who sees how absolutely sick that is?

No, I completely agree with you, we're too soft on criminals. I only think we should just shoot the bastards in the head rather than a lethal injection. Bullets are cheaper.

[Terracosmo]

Word. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

I also like Assassin's way of letting the family members have a go at the criminal. Wow.. the prospect of that makes me drool. Imagine getting to stomp rapists' heads to pieces. Yummy i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[PSJ]

Hang the criminals, that way you can use the same rope over and over. I don't believe in the "changed man" routine, alot of fuckers try it. Even if Williams wasn't guilty of the 4 murders he is still guilty for starting the crips and that should be enough to send him on his way.

In Sweden the prisoners get a tv, playstation, computer, 3 meals a day which a are better than the meals we get in school and if they are sentenced to life they get out after 12-15 years, are the sentenced to life in fucking dog years?

Recently 3 murderers escaped the highest security prison, this was like 8 months ago now or something. They managed to get ahold of a cellphone and made plans with that. If our prisons are that easy to get out of why do we have them?

Lock them in an 18th century style prison, thick stonewalls, small windows, bread and water. Let them rot to death. That would be cheaper.

[Terracosmo]

God don't get me started on Sweden's prisons. This fucking country blows in so many departments but that's probably the worst of them all. People WANT to go to jail here, that's how damn good the prisoners fare.

)"()¤"¤=)("¤=¤(¤=)¤(!¤¤"¤

[el_boss]

You seem to forget that the idea of prison isn't to punish people, but to rehabilitate. This notion has been forgotten though since most prisons now a days are only warehouses for storing humans.

There should only be like one sentence, "until deemed fit for society" or something like that. I mean what's the idea of putting someone in jail for the rest of their life, it has no purpose what so ever. If there is no chanse for that person to ever be free, then why should he even try to improve himself.

[PSJ]

The problem is that no one wants, say a rapist as your neighbour or lets say someone that abused his wife. People won't feel safe if you stick a person like that under their nose even if the person is rehabilitated for now but there must be something inside him that made him do it for the first time, who can determine that this something isn't there anymore?

Lets move on to work, it will say in your application that you did time, lets say a murderer got out after 13 years and is supposedly rehabilitated, who would hire him? I sure wouldn't want a murderer working alongside me.

Most crimes are done by people that are clearly sick, i mean who likes to have sex with children for example? What will you do about him? How will you rehabilitate him into society again?

Why don't we just take all criminals and put them in the hard jobs like working in a mine or something along those lines so we have some use for them.

[Winged Dancer]

Whenever I read that someone's died it makes me a little sad. I don't know about that man and what he did - news about him nevr reached my country and I don't read news on the net - so I will not argue whether he deserved it or not, but I keep thinking he was still human.

I imagine, you know, looking up at the sky and knowing for sure it'll be the last time you'll ever look at it... God it makes me sad.

Don't come at me yelling that criminals such as him don't have any right to look at the sky, please. I'm from a jewish family - my grandmother's family was basically anihilated by the Nazis. There are only two Läine-Weber remaning in the world now - two. And yet I, as a sentimentally-linked victim, wouldn't deny any nazi, not even Hitler, to look at the sky, which I'm kinda using as a metaphor for the right to live.

"Letting the families go at it" isn't a solution either. One of my friend's uncle was murdered in Argentina by a terrorist organization. Her mother absolutely loved her brother - how do you think she felt? When the culprits were found she, however, chose to be calm, rational and think about what she should do. At the end she ended up advocating for life - even for those who had killed a family member. She's now part of a Anti-death penalty NGO.

So yeah. I don't know if there's an answer and, as I said, I won't argue whether he deserved it or not, because as a principle I don't believe humans are fit to make most decisions related to death. I just still think it'd be very sad to look at the sky and know it's the last time.

Now, I leave the topic since I know this'll be dubbed as sentimental, since it's just better to let the dead's family kick the criminal, or better yet drop a bomb on most prisions, so yeah they'll all die LOLZ!!!11

*shrug*

[Xollence]

Originally posted by: Winged Dancer
Don't come at me yelling that criminals such as him don't have any right to look at the sky, please. I'm from a jewish family - my grandmother's family was basically anihilated by the Nazis. There are only two Läine-Weber remaning in the world now - two. And yet I, as a sentimentally-linked victim, wouldn't deny any nazi, not even Hitler, to look at the sky, which I'm kinda using as a metaphor for the right to live.


Well Hitler wasn't really the one who created the concentration camps or even the death camps. He didn't have the stomache to find efficient way of killing Jews so he left it to Heydrich. But yeah I see your point.

I'd rather not have the death penalty, but cases like Tookie I don't really care about.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Winged Dancer
Now, I leave the topic since I know this'll be dubbed as sentimental, since it's just better to let the dead's family kick the criminal, or better yet drop a bomb on most prisions, so yeah they'll all die LOLZ!!!11

*shrug*

Is it just me, or have your last 10 or so posts been incredibly pissy? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Ero-Fan]

She's a woman, so pissy comes with the territory, no?
Edit: To hell with me being nice earlier, I'll tell you what we should really do with criminals. I say, screw prisons, put em in a fenced in area. Have a free-for-all where the last man/woman alive gets a free "pardon", and by pardon I mean a quick death. Televise the event, use the money to pay for the guards and prison grounds. I bet it would be a hit right off the bat. I know I would watch.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Well it's nice to know she advocated him getting life and all..

But if it was me, they would die. By my bare hands.

[Terracosmo]

Ditto. I can't possibly see the logic in forgiving those people, even less actually joining some anti-death penalty thingy. :S

To quote a guy from another forum which I frequent (READ THIS because it is TRUTH);

"Tookie (Williams) and 3 other friends who originally went to rob a minnie mart instead headed towards a 7-eleven which was worked by a guy named Owens. 2 of Took's friends began to work on the cash register take around 120 bucks. Returning from outside sweeping Owens went inside with the other 2 while Tookie followed behind him and armed himself with a 12 gauge and pointed it at Owen's back. In a backroom he took out the camera and put two rounds into Owen's back, dropping him.

"You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him"

4 Taiwanese immigrants, A 60 yearold couple, 1 daughter and son, owned a motel in South Central. Williams broke into the private office and shot down the Dad and then followed up by killing the mother. Lastly he shot and killed the daughter of the family while the son was running to the commotion. The good news is Tookie was able to net himself another useless 100 bucks. Both parents were shot twice by the 12 gauge.

Right now the crips have swelled to 31,000 in California. Just in California.


On the other hand aid worker Margaret Hassan was kidnapped and killed in Iraq an entire year ago, but she never got a R.I.P. Why? Because Russel Crowe and MTV didn't know her."

[PSJ]

You actually feel sad everytime someone you don't know dies?

Not to be cold-hearted or anything but i just don't have it in me to feel too sad when someone i don't know dies. There were this guy at my school who got shot by his brother supposedly by accident when they were playing around with a revolver, i couldn't help but to think how stupid it was to play around with a loaded revolver.

Back on topic.

I like that idea of the criminal free-for-all. I would watch it. Anti-death penalty thingy is just overrated, it's the same as vegans doing demonstrations and shit, you will not change anything so just stop it. There is no way the government will listen to a small fraction of the population while an equal fraction are active supporters of death penalty.

EDIT: After reading Terra's edit i can't say more than that he got what he deserved, maybe death was too easy for him, i'd say let him work himself to death, let him lift shit for 15 hours a day and get some shitty meal once a day, he would be dead after a month or 2. Why should we treat criminals that rapes and murders, according to human rights when they clearly doesn't give a shit about anything else than themselves.

[Mr Squiggles]

What about those that were wrongfully convicted? because lets face it, the judicial system isnt perfect. Just as some guilty get away, innocents get convicted. Should they be killed as well, Is that acceptable collateral damage?

I dont believe in the death penalty. Killing someone because they also killed is not justice, its just vengeance. I also find it to be extremely hypocritical.

And just for the record, I am not a chick, nor am I gay... but then again I am canadian so that might explain it...

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Anti-death penalty thingy is just overrated, it's the same as vegans doing demonstrations and shit, you will not change anything so just stop it. There is no way the government will listen to a small fraction of the population while an equal fraction are active supporters of death penalty.

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard you say, so I'm going to assume you weren't being serious. "It doesn't matter what you beleive or want because a lot of other people don't want it so stfu." LOL, you're right. Fuck democracy!

As for feeling bad when someone dies, I don't like hearing it either. I'm against the death penalty, but totally for Assassin and Ero-fan's torture idea. Brilliant.


Originally posted by: Mr Squiggles
What about those that were wrongfully convicted? because lets face it, the judicial system isnt perfect. Just as some guilty get away, innocents get convicted. Should they be killed as well, Is that acceptable collateral damage?

I forgot about that. I learned last year that a large percentage of those sentenced to death were wrongfully accused. Particularly African Americans.

[PSJ]

Sorry for sounding dumb but do you see it working? For the government to listen there must be a huge mass backing up the cause and i don't see that mass anywhere. The ones that got the power are the ones that are in control, they choose who and what to listen to and take action for or against. When a cause got a small number of supporters and at the same time an equal number of people against it nothing will happen.

That's just what i think and i don't really care if it's stupid to you. I wouldn't waste my time on something that won't work. Call me whatever you want, it's your choice.

I can agree that its unfortunate that innocents can be convicted but that goes for all kinds of punishments, taking away the death penalty won't take away the problem with innocents getting punished. That problem lies in other parts of the system.

[XanBcoo]

And what if you consider if the anti-death penalty had a stronger backing, or supported by the government? Would you do nothing, even though you beleived we should kill the sick motherfuckers? I wasn't calling your point of view stupid, I just found it odd that you would say those in favor of not killing should do nothing.

[PSJ]

Well if the anti-death penalty had a stronger backing i'm sure the government would consider it, i would still do nothing as i am not a supporter of anti-death penalty, my country doesn't even have death penalty.

I don't involve easily in things like that i tend to care about what's closer to me and focus on that, call it selfish or whatever but i just don't have the energy to work for a cause.

[Xollence]

Blair condemns the death penalty (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051214/en_afp/britaineuusjustice_051214180929)

Williams debate (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/williams_execution;_ylt=AssIxsp3mbPHgfCtRWwxkFkEcP 8A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

"If they think they succeeded by killing him in getting people to forget about him, they have done just the opposite,"

Who said anything about trying to forget him?

"Becnel said she was planning a memorial service "befitting a statesman" for Sunday or Monday in Los Angeles."

I don't get why people are making such a big deal about his books. It's not like they have proof that his books reduced crime or anything. "Crips have 31,000 members just in California", obviously his books didn't do much there. He's just a stubborn murderer that won't admit his crimes. Obviously if you've done a lot of bad shit, 30 years later anyone would start regretting their past and try to do some good. What he did was nothing special.

[PSJ]

I find it weird that people actually did let him do childrens books, imagine the bad publicity the label who first released his books got.

[el_boss]

I think it's funny that alot of americans and people in general are for capital punishment but for some reason they are against abortion.

[Honoko]

Originally posted by: el_boss
I think it's funny that alot of americans and people in general are for capital punishment but for some reason they are against abortion.
i agree. you got the republicans who're pro-life, and yet pro-war. you got the democrats who're pro-choice but anti-war. go figure.

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: el_boss
I think it's funny that alot of americans and people in general are for capital punishment but for some reason they are against abortion.


Yeah, me too, but for the abortion issue, I guess I'm pro-choice, but then again, my feelings are that I am a guy, so the only abortion I should ever get a say in is if it was my kid they were trying to abort. Oh, well.
Personally, if your against the death penalty, thats all well and good. I get more agrevated by this, "I'm a celebrity, so if I say he should live, he should live" bullshit. As if any one person's opinion matters more than anothers. Hey, if enough people went against the death penalty that it got banned, I would be up in arms to get it reinstated, so I don't mind the protests. Then again, if it was overturned, I probably would take the law into my own hands. I know a few people deserving of death I wouldn't mind seeing em gone. Law is the only thing stopping vigilante justice. Until it changes, I'll volunteer to pull the switch, trigger, whatever...

Edit:


Originally posted by: Honoko


Originally posted by: el_boss
I think it's funny that alot of americans and people in general are for capital punishment but for some reason they are against abortion.
i agree. you got the republicans who're pro-life, and yet pro-war. you got the democrats who're pro-choice but anti-war. go figure.

I hate both partys' views on some things, but my views line up with republicans better than democrats on a national level and democrats better than republicans on a local level, so go figure. (obviously, I hate all politicians, or I like confusing myself at the polls i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif )

[The Heretic Azazel]

Originally posted by: Mr Squiggles
What about those that were wrongfully convicted? because lets face it, the judicial system isnt perfect. Just as some guilty get away, innocents get convicted. Should they be killed as well, Is that acceptable collateral damage?

I dont believe in the death penalty. Killing someone because they also killed is not justice, its just vengeance. I also find it to be extremely hypocritical.

And just for the record, I am not a chick, nor am I gay... but then again I am canadian so that might explain it...

If I were innocent I would rather die than spend life in prison, and I bet a lot of people would agree with me.

You don't get on death row from circumstantial evidence, the people you see who are exonerated for their crimes are typically ones who went in before DNA analyzation had evolved. Plus you go through countless appeals. I'm not saying all people on death row are guilty, unfortunately that's improbable. But dying is better than being fucked in the shower everyday, anyway, so should you debate if someone should get life?

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Mr Squiggles
What about those that were wrongfully convicted? because lets face it, the judicial system isnt perfect. Just as some guilty get away, innocents get convicted. Should they be killed as well, Is that acceptable collateral damage?

I dont believe in the death penalty. Killing someone because they also killed is not justice, its just vengeance. I also find it to be extremely hypocritical.

And just for the record, I am not a chick, nor am I gay... but then again I am canadian so that might explain it...

Oh, well then....let's expand our prisons and cram in more convicts and pay to feed and clothe them just because a fraction of a percent of them might be innocent.

The judicial system is built around the premise that it actually works. Defendants are already taken to court on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. Should it be changed to "innocent until proven maybe guilty"?

Innocent or guilty aside, I still fail to see the advantage of rotting away in a cell as opposed to being killed off earlier.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: Ero-Fan
Then again, if it was overturned, I probably would take the law into my own hands. I know a few people deserving of death I wouldn't mind seeing em gone. Law is the only thing stopping vigilante justice. Until it changes, I'll volunteer to pull the switch, trigger, whatever...

Suddenly, "The Boondock Saints" comes to mind...

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo


Originally posted by: Ero-Fan
Then again, if it was overturned, I probably would take the law into my own hands. I know a few people deserving of death I wouldn't mind seeing em gone. Law is the only thing stopping vigilante justice. Until it changes, I'll volunteer to pull the switch, trigger, whatever...

Suddenly, "The Boondock Saints" comes to mind...

Ahh, that movie, hehe. Brings a smile to my face every time I watch it. If only I could get away with it like they do....

[Assassin]

Originally posted by: el_boss
I think it's funny that alot of americans and people in general are for capital punishment but for some reason they are against abortion.


i dont see how the 2 are similar. Yes, you're talking about ending life, but one life is that of an innocent child, and theres absolutely no doubt about his ainnocence. On the other hand, with capital punishment, you're talking about punishing someone who has commited a crime, and not just any crime, something so serious that it warrants the death penalty. So its perfectly reasonable to br pro capital punishment, and anti abortion.



Why don't we just take all criminals and put them in the hard jobs like working in a mine or something along those lines so we have some use for them.



To hell with me being nice earlier, I'll tell you what we should really do with criminals. I say, screw prisons, put em in a fenced in area. Have a free-for-all where the last man/woman alive gets a free "pardon", and by pardon I mean a quick death. Televise the event, use the money to pay for the guards and prison grounds. I bet it would be a hit right off the bat. I know I would watch.


I like how were starting to sound like the intro to some post-apocolyptic fps game i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif.

[XanBcoo]

George Carlin did a funny bit over what should be done with criminals, sexual offenders, etc.

[Xollence]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: Mr Squiggles
What about those that were wrongfully convicted? because lets face it, the judicial system isnt perfect. Just as some guilty get away, innocents get convicted. Should they be killed as well, Is that acceptable collateral damage?

I dont believe in the death penalty. Killing someone because they also killed is not justice, its just vengeance. I also find it to be extremely hypocritical.

And just for the record, I am not a chick, nor am I gay... but then again I am canadian so that might explain it...

Oh, well then....let's expand our prisons and cram in more convicts and pay to feed and clothe them just because a fraction of a percent of them might be innocent.

The judicial system is built around the premise that it actually works. Defendants are already taken to court on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. Should it be changed to "innocent until proven maybe guilty"?

Innocent or guilty aside, I still fail to see the advantage of rotting away in a cell as opposed to being killed off earlier.

Actually the death penalty costs a lot more than life imprisonment.

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: Xollence


Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: Mr Squiggles
What about those that were wrongfully convicted? because lets face it, the judicial system isnt perfect. Just as some guilty get away, innocents get convicted. Should they be killed as well, Is that acceptable collateral damage?

I dont believe in the death penalty. Killing someone because they also killed is not justice, its just vengeance. I also find it to be extremely hypocritical.

And just for the record, I am not a chick, nor am I gay... but then again I am canadian so that might explain it...

Oh, well then....let's expand our prisons and cram in more convicts and pay to feed and clothe them just because a fraction of a percent of them might be innocent.

The judicial system is built around the premise that it actually works. Defendants are already taken to court on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. Should it be changed to "innocent until proven maybe guilty"?

Innocent or guilty aside, I still fail to see the advantage of rotting away in a cell as opposed to being killed off earlier.

Actually the death penalty costs a lot more than life imprisonment.


Only cause we coddle there ass. God forbid we use some cheap method like a bullet to the brain, or that metal rod they have that gets shoved through a cow's head to kill it instantly. Better yet, let's use a guillitene (god, I can't spell) to behead em. At least that is reusable.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: Assassin


Originally posted by: el_boss
I think it's funny that alot of americans and people in general are for capital punishment but for some reason they are against abortion.

i dont see how the 2 are similar. Yes, you're talking about ending life, but one life is that of an innocent child, and theres absolutely no doubt about his ainnocence. On the other hand, with capital punishment, you're talking about punishing someone who has commited a crime, and not just any crime, something so serious that it warrants the death penalty. So its perfectly reasonable to br pro capital punishment, and anti abortion.
I the case of abortion the motivation is that no human can decide whether another human should live or die, therefor abortion is a bad thing. But the all of a sudden they think "well I guess some people deserve to die so maybe it is ok for a human to decide over another humans fate after all".

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: el_boss


Originally posted by: Assassin


Originally posted by: el_boss
I think it's funny that alot of americans and people in general are for capital punishment but for some reason they are against abortion.

i dont see how the 2 are similar. Yes, you're talking about ending life, but one life is that of an innocent child, and theres absolutely no doubt about his ainnocence. On the other hand, with capital punishment, you're talking about punishing someone who has commited a crime, and not just any crime, something so serious that it warrants the death penalty. So its perfectly reasonable to br pro capital punishment, and anti abortion.
I the case of abortion the motivation is that no human can decide whether another human should live or die, therefor abortion is a bad thing. But the all of a sudden they think "well I guess some people deserve to die so maybe it is ok for a human to decide over another humans fate after all".

Its hard and probably unfair to compare abortion with capital punishment. In abortion, the human never had a chance at life; whereas the death penalty, the asshole had a chance, even got a hearing to try and get off the hook, and it was decided that he is a detriment to society that has to be removed. That person had control of their own destiny, and thats what they chose. The child never had a choice. Just to reiterate, I am pro-choice and pro capital punishment. I don't think people are hypocrits for supporting one and yet not the other; they are just too dissimilar.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Xollence
Actually the death penalty costs a lot more than life imprisonment.

I know. It was brought up already in the rolleyes.net forum.
But that's more expensive by choice. All it takes is some piano wire.

[Carnage]

I dont know what you guys are talking about, " mankind is too soft in general". Prison is worse than death. Much worse. Unless your really big. Then you should be executed. But i do agree with the idea of victims having their way with the criminal. Oh, and Ero-fan, did you get that televised idea from George Carlin?

Also, there should be limits to abortion. Perhaps say, a woman can only choose to abort if she became pregnant through rape.

[PSJ]

So what if a girl got pregnat when she was making love to her boyfriend and the condom broke? Would you just tell her "Well tough luck, that's your problem eh?"

Prison is a fucking vacation here in Sweden, there has been homeless people doing crimes just to get into the fucking 4 star hotel we call prison. No wonder people return to doing crimes when after a short while out in the free, they realize that their situation outside the prison sucks so they want to go back in.

Death penalty is expensive because people insist on giving the person a decent death, a person who has killed 13 teenage girls doesn't deserve to get a decent death, someone should shoot his balls off and let him bleed to death.

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: God#2
I dont know what you guys are talking about, " mankind is too soft in general". Prison is worse than death. Much worse. Unless your really big. Then you should be executed. But i do agree with the idea of victims having their way with the criminal. Oh, and Ero-fan, did you get that televised idea from George Carlin?

Also, there should be limits to abortion. Perhaps say, a woman can only choose to abort if she became pregnant through rape.

No, I don't think so. I might have, but its been like over 8 yrs since I watched a stand up comedy show. I just thought it'd be entertaining to watch. Prison isn't that bad anymore, especially for the sickos that get like solitary confinement. The only limit on abortion should be based on how far along in the pregnancy the woman is. Of course, you'd make exceptions if the woman's life is in jeopardy. It'd prob be the third trimester would be the cut off point.
I wish we could shoot em and let them bleed to death, but people consider that too cruel, so lets just kill them instantly, but cheaply.

Edit: Damn, assertn, you took the words right outta my mouth.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: God#2
I dont know what you guys are talking about, " mankind is too soft in general". Prison is worse than death. Much worse. Unless your really big. Then you should be executed. But i do agree with the idea of victims having their way with the criminal. Oh, and Ero-fan, did you get that televised idea from George Carlin?

Also, there should be limits to abortion. Perhaps say, a woman can only choose to abort if she became pregnant through rape.

Don't even start with that. Imagine being in a situation where you have to change your whole life because of an unexpected pregnancy. Some people end up permanently suspending their own ambitions for problems like that. And you're bringing a child into the world that nobody wanted...is that fair to the child?

Just what we need, an excuse for more people in the world.

[Carnage]

Originally posted by: PSJ
So what if a girl got pregnat when she was making love to her boyfriend and the condom broke? Would you just tell her "Well tough luck, that's your problem eh?"

Prison is a fucking vacation here in Sweden, there has been homeless people doing crimes just to get into the fucking 4 star hotel we call prison. No wonder people return to doing crimes when after a short while out in the free, they realize that their situation outside the prison sucks so they want to go back in.

Death penalty is expensive because people insist on giving the person a decent death, a person who has killed 13 teenage girls doesn't deserve to get a decent death, someone should shoot his balls off and let him bleed to death.

No, i said "raped", not intentional sex. otherwise, i'd agree with you. When people have sex, they should be prepared for the consequences.