Orochimaru vs. Uchiha Itachi [Archive]

Edort4

Fri, 10-21-2005, 01:04 PM

Orochimaru with no doubt!

Common we know what orochimaru said but is just that he is affraid of losing, in the end he is quite coward everytime he sees his precious life at risk runs away, he wants to be inmortal, he doesnt have the guts to risk everything on a fight. Thats the main difference between orochimaru and jiray, jiraya could give his life away to defeat some1 just like the 3th and the 4th hokage, those are real badasses.

But even without stupid plot mechanics made by kishimoto imagine itachi fighting orochimaru, if he used some resurrection jutsu like with the 2 kages, common mangekyou works for nothing. Can u really gentsuju some1 who is dead(doesnt have fellings) to enter comma state affraid of pain and dying? Ridiculous. What orochimaru said was nothing more than a plot device, and his fear to die when he can live forever.

isso

Fri, 10-21-2005, 01:31 PM

itachi

Orichimaru siad it himself when speaking about aksuti or whatthe group was called!

heero

Fri, 10-21-2005, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by: vasco
If Itachi alone can win Orochimaru, then why the "aka...-something" with 7 people (one is Itachi) still let orochimaru alive?

because he is not a threat to them. Look at akatsuki's goals and look at orochimaru's. they don't really cross.

LobsterMagnet

Fri, 10-21-2005, 02:31 PM

Here is the problem that lies within the Orchimaro vs. Itachi debate. Orchimaro clearly states that itachi is stronger then him. Itachi clearly states that Jiraiya is stronger then him. Yet Orchimaro has no fear of Jiraiya and fights him even when he has the handicape of not being able to use his arms. Here lies the dillema. Until we see them fight there really is no way to assume that one could beat the other. I think the reason why Orchimaro fears itachi so much is because he has some sort of fruiedian inferiority complex when it comes to those with bloodlines. He sees them as perfect and since he really dosen't have one he's envious and fearful of them.

The Heretic Azazel

Fri, 10-21-2005, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
didnt orochimaru say somewhere that he wasnt as strong as itachi or something.... its somewhere, im sure about that.

itachi

That reason is pure shit.

Come on, where are the people from the Sasuke/Neji thread that presented their opinions so articulately?

I'll post mine later. No more bullshit reasons like "he admitted Itachi was stronger" and "Jiraiya ran from Itachi so he must be stronger." That doesn't have shit to do with anything when it all comes down to it.

darkmetal505

Fri, 10-21-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
didnt orochimaru say somewhere that he wasnt as strong as itachi or something.... its somewhere, im sure about that.

itachi

That reason is pure shit.

Come on, where are the people from the Sasuke/Neji thread that presented their opinions so articulately?

I'll post mine later. No more bullshit reasons like "he admitted Itachi was stronger" and "Jiraiya ran from Itachi so he must be stronger." That doesn't have shit to do with anything when it all comes down to it.

uh... no it isnt.... why would oro say itachi was stronger than him if he wasnt afraid of him or knew that he would loose. If i knew that the 200 pound football player was stronger than me, i would say so. so reason pure shit my ass

oh yea everything in naruto is contradictory, such as the oro vs itachi vs jiraya... dont dwell on it... itll just mess with your mind

The Heretic Azazel

Fri, 10-21-2005, 04:09 PM

Just because he thinks he'll be beat (he doesn't KNOW) doesn't mean he will be beat.

Oro has easily thousands of jutsus at his disposal, a technique that allows him to shed his old decaying body, and can definitely be considered a genius. He was trained by the Third, possibly the most powerful Hokage ever (as he did beat the First and Second.) Orochimaru is a master at taijutsu, ninjutsu as well as genjutsu, though the genjutsu may not do much against the Mangekyou sharingan, I would venture to say he would know how to handle any inferior sharingan level.

Itachi is a skilled marksman. He became a Chuunin at what, 6? He was probably the Uchiha with the most potential and definitely lived up to it. We haven't seen much in the way of ninjutsu or taijutsu from Itachi, though his complete ease in blocking Chidori should be testament to his hand-to-hand strength. Of course, he has the Mangekyou sharingan, complete with Amatersu and Tsukiyomi.

I'm sure most of you will agree with the fact that it all rides on how Oro can handle the mangekyou sharingan. He has genjutsu of his own, he has an extreme talent in this too, being a non-sharingan holder. Can Oro watch how Itachi moves by avoiding his eyes and watching his feet? I'm very confident he can. Also, as powerful as Itachi has, Oro is older, wiser and has more experience. He is very intelligent. Not to sell Itachi short, he could be a smart fighter, but with Mangekyou, I don't think he's really needed to be a smart fighter a lot. That's his trump card, one look and we have to think it would be over.

I'm taking Orochimaru for the above reasons. Oro has to escape Mangekyou for this to happen or avoid it altogether. I don't know if it can be escaped, but I know Oro is smart and powerful enough to catch Itachi by surprise by an almost unlimited arsenal of techniques.

darkmetal505

Fri, 10-21-2005, 04:13 PM

well im sure itachi is very adept in all forms of fighting. Also, he probably knows orochimaru's moves since he was once in ataksuki. As for more experience and being older, yes orochimaru is. But that doesnt even play a fact as naruto and sasuke have beaten many jounins themselves.

Strider

Fri, 10-21-2005, 04:34 PM

Itachi.

Itachi mastered the Sharingan, meaning three comma and complete usage of its abilities, at the age of eight. He was Chuunin the following year, thus at nine. And, ANBU Captain at thirteen. He's up there. I don't see them handing over such a prominent position to just any pre-pubescent shinobi. Itachi was greatly skilled, and heralded, as well as feared, by many. Rightfully so.

Akatsuki have been running around doing their thing in acquiring power and setting things up for their master plan. In all that time, you seriously doubt Itachi's arsenal of techniques and skills doesn't compare to Orochimaru's? I'm sure Itachi's seen just about every jutsu from when he was still a child. He got bored with copying, replicating and improving the same skills, thus wanted more. Enter Mangekyou.

But, even before Mangekyou, Itachi was the ANBU Captain. You don't have to be skilled or smart for that position?

There have not been many Ninjutsu skills shown by Itachi. But, with the insanely swift speeds with which he executed hand seals, do you really doubt him? Kakashi barely caught them. I do not think Kurenai did catch them.

You also mention Orochimaru's got years on Itachi. That isn't necessarily a good thing. He's out of his prime. Still a force to be reckoned with. However, I'm sure that's wavered some since his younger years.

In addition, I think Itachi's familiar with Orochimaru's technique. Why? Well, how do you know something is hot? You touch it, and that unpleasant burn is something you remember. How would Orochimaru know he could not defeat him? He's most likely attempted to do so before. Unable to best the premiere Uchiha, Orochimaru decided to go for the untapped one, Sasuke.

Jadugar

Fri, 10-21-2005, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Come on, where are the people from the Sasuke/Neji thread that presented their opinions so articulately?

Itachi.

Your thread sucks. ( In my articulate opinion)

heero

Fri, 10-21-2005, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Just because he thinks he'll be beat (he doesn't KNOW) doesn't mean he will be beat.,

so you think you know him better than himself? lol

Assertn

Fri, 10-21-2005, 07:36 PM

there's nothing really new to debate in this thread that hasn't been debated in many other oro/jiraiya/itachi threads

The Heretic Azazel

Fri, 10-21-2005, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Come on, where are the people from the Sasuke/Neji thread that presented their opinions so articulately?

Itachi.

Your thread sucks. ( In my articulate opinion)

Sorry it doesn't meet the greatness of the Kiba/Lee thread, fucker!

Jadugar

Fri, 10-21-2005, 07:56 PM

Very touche!

I didnt make the Kiba/Lee thread.

BTW Kiba/Lee doesnt have a great start like yours, "To your stations, soldiers".

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
there's nothing really new to debate in this thread that hasn't been debated in many other oro/jiraiya/itachi threads
Ditto

Necromas

Sun, 10-23-2005, 08:37 PM

I have a feeling someone like Orochimaru would be pretty strong vs. torture and hypnotism.

Strider

Mon, 10-24-2005, 11:30 AM

Whatever Itachi did to have Orochimaru worried about not beating him before or anytime thereafter is all Itachi would have to do again.

Itachi could just show Orochimaru losing all of his jutsu. That'd be a devastative mental blow for Orochimaru. I'm sure Itachi's aware of that, as all Orochimaru talks about is acquiring every jutsu.

The Heretic Azazel

Mon, 10-24-2005, 10:19 PM

There's no proof that Itachi turns your particular fears against you, it's more general, like when Kakashi was caught in it.

Strider

Tue, 10-25-2005, 10:59 AM

Uh, I never said Itachi is capable of turning your worst fears against you.

Orochimaru's wanted every jutsu from who knows how long. This is why he was experimenting on making his Immortality technique. I'm sure everyone in the Akatsuki knows Orochimaru wants to possess the knowledge to enact every skill of every level, including Itachi - whose eyes Orochimaru wanted.

Since this is common knowledge of his goals, Itachi could use common sense to simply show the opposite - him losing all of them, rather than gaining all of them.

The Heretic Azazel

Tue, 10-25-2005, 11:05 AM

Which would pretty much be Oro's worst fear since his cause in life is to attain every jutsu.

I don't think Itachi can just show people ANYTHING he wants to, just put them in a fucked up situation that their minds can't handle. It's that innate fear of death that the typical Mangekyou victim's mind succumbs to. But showing Oro scenes of death or giving him the illusion that he is being stabbed repeatedly might only make Oro aroused. I don't think he's afraid to die.

Orochimaru: 5

[b]Uchiha Itachi: 8 [Heero, el_boss, Shinda, darkmetal505, Psyke, Strider, isso, Jadugar]

The only vague vote was Necromas. Where do you stand?

Strider

Tue, 10-25-2005, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
I don't think Itachi can just show people ANYTHING he wants to, just put them in a fucked up situation that their minds can't handle.

Are you serious?

If it's an innate fear of death that the Mangekyou brings out, why did Sasuke see his parents and family's murder? Sasuke never considered suicide, and how can dead relatives kill you? That was simply a psychological trauma and shock. Nothing to do with fearing death.

I cannot recall the Manga Chapter. However, I'm quite sure it's Episode 82 in the animated series. Watch it. Please.

In the meantime, while Kakashi is crucified, Itachi clearly states (something along these lines), "In this world of Tsukiyomi, I control everything. Time, space and the events are all up to me."

Everything in that realm of those caught within Tsukiyomi are victim to anything Itachi could conjure up, which is why it's possible for Itachi to show Orochimaru losing all of his jutsu. It is also stated that while it is simply an illusion, the pain is indeed extremely real as it's continual stress being placed onto the brain. Kakashi is unable to take the pain any longer, breaks down and falls into unconsciousness.

Orochimaru may be strong, but being repeatedly stabbed, regardless of who you are, is a tough feat to cope with. Especially considering the pain is anything negligible.

Jadugar

Tue, 10-25-2005, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Orochimaru: 5

[b]Uchiha Itachi: 8 [Heero, el_boss, Shinda, darkmetal505, Psyke, Strider, isso, Jadugar]

I have seen this format somewhere, oh yes. here (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=16315&enterthrea d=y).

@ The Heretic Azazel : If you are serious about the topic then lets hear your winning scenario.

The Heretic Azazel

Tue, 10-25-2005, 11:10 PM

Of course I used the format, how the hell else am I supposed to score it?

I'll post when I'm not busy getting high.

6Zabuza9

Tue, 10-25-2005, 11:33 PM

after a few years orochimaru will take over itachi's body for no reason while's he's sleeping. After getting his body he dies from touching himself too much and masterbation i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif = DRAW

aznroyale

Thu, 10-27-2005, 06:23 PM

Itachi kicks ass

Ban Kai

Thu, 10-27-2005, 06:27 PM

itachi of course......

lilphatboi88

Thu, 10-27-2005, 11:37 PM

You know what I'd say?

Orochimaru = Itachi = Jiraiya

That's the bottom line.

aznroyale

Fri, 10-28-2005, 06:32 AM

Itachi can kick Orochimaru like nothing

TheNineTails

Sun, 10-30-2005, 12:02 AM

i'm with aznroyale
Itachi Owns.

bagandscalpel

Thu, 11-03-2005, 07:37 PM

Meh, this looks fairly amusing.

I'd say Itachi, at this point, considering Orochimaru's condition and all.

Though I say Itachi, I still believe Orochimaru to be the better villain, what with the staying power, greater ambition, etc, etc. I think that poor Akatsuki, I-killed-my-family poster boy hit his low point by giving Sasuke the thumbs up to his own eventually possible defeat.

Strider

Tue, 11-08-2005, 04:54 PM

I don't get this whole "I-killed-my-family" posterboy thing. It's not like Itachi's trying to make his name based off of that. It's everyone else who constantly brings it up. It's Sasuke who is stuck on it.

Itachi has done it, for whatever purpose. Felt whatever accomplishment from it. And, has moved on. Why won't everyone else? Shit happens.

Itachi would ruin Orochimaru. Gimp arms or with six, like Kidoumaru.

The Heretic Azazel

Tue, 11-08-2005, 08:37 PM

What if Oro had healthy arms, and could summon the 4th?

Naruto_RNG

Tue, 11-08-2005, 11:07 PM

can't summon the forth because he is in death god's stomach. people traped just suffer for the rest of the time. i hope it's true. cause if that happenes itachi have to deal with two kages instead of one. yes u heard me right kages. oro didn't become one cause he was evil. on the other hand u guys are forgetting cursed seal power turning u to weird looking i don't know what u call those things. i am sure oro can escape MS with it. since all u need to get out of genjitsu is to over power it or someone else break it by touching u. i'm more then 100% sure oro's cursed seal is more poweful then any other we have seen u would be a fool if u would think other wise. i say oro would win but him surviving the battle don't know. as u guys know sharingan can't see through the mist all oro needs is a mist. i hope it's not true but if oro has the 8 tail bijuu then itachi doesn't have a chance. maybe that is why itachi is after naruto since each member of akatsuki go after their own bijuus. i just don't get why oro want's susake's body he can remove his eye just like how kakashi has obito's left eye. if it is getting to a younger body then he have to change it after 3 years what is he going to do then. he'll will lose the eye and i doubt he can learn all jutsu in 3 years. if i were him i would chose susake's eyes and naruto's body since it has kyuubi unlimited power. anyone care to explain this?

The Heretic Azazel

Wed, 11-09-2005, 12:20 AM

He doesn't have to change bodies every 3 years, that's just his minimum time in a body and he can't transfer out of it until that is up. As it was explained, he needs the Uchiha body to adapt to the sharingan, Kakashi's bootleg Sharingan tires him out more quickly than Itachi's.

And the 1st and 2nd are in the belly of the Death God, the 3rd made it so the 4th couldn't be summoned.

Which brings up an interesting question.. can Itachi's genjutsu work on a soulless 4th Hokage?

Strider

Fri, 11-11-2005, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
What if Oro had healthy arms, and could summon the 4th?

Then it wouldn't be Orochimaru defeating Itachi, it'd be the Fourth Hokage. Who was indefinitely powerful enough to defeat Itachi.

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Which brings up an interesting question.. can Itachi's genjutsu work on a soulless 4th Hokage?

If Orochimaru summoned the Yondaime, he would not be without a soul. That was the sacred / forbidden portion of the jutsu - bringing back the souls of the dead, to once again inhabit the living world. What Orochimaru did to the Shodai and Nidaime was simply make them killing machines, disregarding the regular persona and inhibitions.

Itachi's Mangekyou would work .. if he could catch him.

Naruto_RNG

Fri, 11-11-2005, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel

And the 1st and 2nd are in the belly of the Death God, the 3rd made it so the 4th couldn't be summoned.

were they? i thought they died of old age.

The Heretic Azazel

Fri, 11-11-2005, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
What if Oro had healthy arms, and could summon the 4th?

Then it wouldn't be Orochimaru defeating Itachi, it'd be the Fourth Hokage. Who was indefinitely powerful enough to defeat Itachi.

That's not fair, why can't Oro use all his techiques at his disposal?

XanBcoo

Fri, 11-11-2005, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by: Naruto_RNG

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel

And the 1st and 2nd are in the belly of the Death God, the 3rd made it so the 4th couldn't be summoned.

were they? i thought they died of old age.

They died by some means. They are not in the Death God. I dunno what Azazel was referring to.

But if Oro summoned the 4th, I think he would be able to beat Itachi, or at least have another powerful ally. It would be his win.

I also don't think Orochimaru has a curse seal or a tailed demon.

The Heretic Azazel

Fri, 11-11-2005, 09:23 PM

They are in the Death God, Sarutobi sealed everyone with that technique but couldn't take Oro all the way. The 1st and 2nd died somehow but they were brought back, and sealed in, along with Sarutobi himself.

AzureSky

Thu, 11-17-2005, 08:12 AM

Itachi.
Firstly,be honest,how well do we know him anyway? He might have more jutsus than Orochimaru for all I know or just one that could leave Oro begging at his feet.

Secondly, he is cooler.

ChaosK

Fri, 11-18-2005, 11:16 PM

itachi, didnt orochimaru say "i left because itachi got stronger than me" theres your fuckin prooooof right there.

god of son, aramatersu
something moon, tyskuomni (cant spell!!!!!)

these 2 things own and they dont even involve physical actions from itachi, he just has to look at you.

The Heretic Azazel

Sat, 11-19-2005, 12:19 AM

That's not proof at all, that doesn't guarantee Oro will lose and it doesn't even guarantee the translation of what he said wasn't skewed to be interpreted in another way.

Naruto_RNG

Sat, 11-19-2005, 02:21 AM

it's funny how everyone refers to the thing oro said a while ago. that he would lose to itachi. the guy can summon any dead people. that alone right there is enough to screw itachi. and those moves that itachi uses with M.S. they both need insane amount of chakra let alone the M.S. it self to be activited. itachi can't be like "oh yea i'll activate this and poof you dead". itachi also said that he would lose to jiraya but we saw how well oro holded up against him without using any jutsu.

ChaosK

Sat, 11-19-2005, 08:48 PM

that is a kinjutsu, do you think that he is the only one capable of performing it? NO, its j ust he is the only one with enough guts to do it, besides after seeing it done, itachi could copy it and do the same thing, thus we'd have a hokage vs. hokage fight.

Naruto_RNG

Sun, 11-20-2005, 01:12 AM

i don't think oro is that dumb to do the so as u say kinjutsu infront of him knowing that he will copy it. i could be wrong maybe he is stupid.

KoKo37

Tue, 11-29-2005, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by: Naruto_RNG
it's funny how everyone refers to the thing oro said a while ago. that he would lose to itachi. the guy can summon any dead people. that alone right there is enough to screw itachi. and those moves that itachi uses with M.S. they both need insane amount of chakra let alone the M.S. it self to be activited. itachi can't be like "oh yea i'll activate this and poof you dead". itachi also said that he would lose to jiraya but we saw how well oro holded up against him without using any jutsu.

well your right about the first part, after the jump things could be (and probally are) different, but about summoning dead people, that requires sacrefices.. so would that really count as 1v1? lol. then again looking back at the stupid chuninn exam rules, ( drugs n stuff are allowed.. lol ) maybe even with sacrifices it would count as 1v1 in ninja rules -.- lol

XanBcoo

Tue, 11-29-2005, 07:48 PM

A ninja should be allowed to use any means necessary to win a 1 on 1 battle. If he has the means to summon more fighters to use on his side, then it was still him that did it. It would be his jutsu and his victory.

As far as the Mangekyou Sharingan goes, we don't know exactly how it works, so we can't say it needs "an insane ammount of chakra" or a long casting period. As far as we know, Itachi could be able to use Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi like a reflex.

XanBcoo

Tue, 11-29-2005, 07:48 PM

Feck. Double post, soz.

Carnage

Tue, 11-29-2005, 08:52 PM

About the 4rth being summoned, during the Orichimaru vs. Sarutobi fight, im pretty sure Orichimaru was going to summon all three hokages but the third stopped the last box thingy from being summoned. Sarutobi literally thought "Thank god i stopped the last one". I think we can assume that the last box contained the 4rth and that Orichimaru can summon people from the stomach of the death god. But that still doesnt change anything inthe fight between Orichimaru and Itachi. I dont want to sound like a fanboy, but Itachi probably wouldnt even give orichimaru the chance to summon the fourth. Orichimaru even admit that he cant beat Itachi. end of discussion.

P.S. Does anybody know how many post counts it takes to become a genin? I thought it was 100.