Bleach Chapter 197 [Archive]

nests

Sat, 10-01-2005, 12:20 AM

Chapter 197 Scanlation (http://web.telia.com/~u32215136/bleach197scan.zip)

Zhan

Sat, 10-01-2005, 12:48 AM

baddddddddddddddddddddddddd man Bleach is so freaking awesome brooo!! Can't wait to see what happens man. I think Soul Society is fucked, looks to me that there was 20 Vastoorede or something in Aizen's chamber.

einobaka

Sat, 10-01-2005, 12:52 AM

Wow what an amazing chapter, I definitely saw Kon's reaction coming when he saw Rukia and Matsumoto. Not to mention the entrance of the group again!

Prof. Chaos

Sat, 10-01-2005, 01:20 AM

Kon is fucking awsome.

Yes Aizen said there were 20 of them. That doesn't mean they are all "mature". I mean if you could say maybe half are like that kid trying to pressure Ichigo, then they are probably not as big of a threat.

kAi

Sat, 10-01-2005, 04:19 AM

Damn.

I wouldn't be suprised if they were all Vastoorede's.
This arc is looking even more promising, if possible.

nests

Sat, 10-01-2005, 08:51 AM

Freaking awsome chapter and to think that their still those shinigami that turn to their hollow side.
Oh yeah freaking Aizen looked very evil

Munsu

Sat, 10-01-2005, 11:23 AM

I think it's almost an impossibility for Vastoorede's to come to Earth's plane... almost like why the Menos Grande rarely are able to come...

So I think after maybe one or two accomplishing that task, the fight will either go to Hueco Mundo in an all-out fight, or back to Soul Society to stop an invasion or something...

Sat, 10-01-2005, 02:19 PM

I hate it when someone so powerful like Aizen has such a huge army. Aizen could probably kill everyone without even using bankai except for a few people.

Prof. Chaos

Sat, 10-01-2005, 03:27 PM

Who says anything about being powerful? He might just be so extremely manipulative that he really isn't as cracked up to be in terms of power. =o Well I guess being able to do this is power, but not in raw form.

mage

Sat, 10-01-2005, 03:34 PM

now were going to get to see 100 useless fights of arankar vs shinigami before we get to see aizen fight at all yay.

Zhan

Sat, 10-01-2005, 06:35 PM

Who do you think will be Aizen's final opponent?

Knives122

Sat, 10-01-2005, 06:40 PM

do you really need to ask?

FoB4EveR

Sat, 10-01-2005, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by: Knives122
do you really need to ask?

HAHAHAH...

Assassin

Sat, 10-01-2005, 08:31 PM

whats Hueco Mundo....is it that hollow dimension we saw in the ep about orihimes brother?

FoB4EveR

Sat, 10-01-2005, 08:41 PM

So what class would the allankar be? would they be the Hueco Mundo or what?

Knives122

Sat, 10-01-2005, 09:01 PM

The two Allankar that attacked Ichigo would be in the Vastroode class(although Im pretty sure Yammy was in the middle class(but that looked more to be in GF appearance).

and yes Hueco Mundo is the place where the hollows reside.

also, from what I can gather the allankar are both menos and at the same time not menos at all(which would explain why yammy or gf(i forget which) said that they shouldnt compare them with those low level peons. It also seems that once the hollows get into the Ajucas class they become Allankar. Its confusing, but I think I got some of i figured out(or maybe Im completely wrong)

basey44

Sun, 10-02-2005, 09:09 PM

im confused, theres too many different classes and sides now. someone help me out

shinigami = duh
visard = shinigami who get hollow power? or was it the other way
???? = hollows who demask, wat are the 3 levels here

and i feel that ichigo is something different, as he wasnt a shinigami who got hollow powers, but was created with both powers simultaneously

Phoenix20578

Sun, 10-02-2005, 09:33 PM

Vizard - Shinigami whose becoming part hollow
Allankar - Hollows who remove thier masks and obtain the powers of a Shinigami.

The levels are:
Gillian - A foot soldiar, Menos Grande
Ajuukaru - Rare, more powerful and smarter than a Menos Grande
Vastoorode - Supremely powerful Allankar (guessing)

It's funny that 10 Vastoorode can take out SS, and Aizen has 20.

mage

Sun, 10-02-2005, 09:43 PM

Ajuukaru is what GrandFisher turned into, Vastoorode is what Uruquiola and Yami are.

basey44

Sun, 10-02-2005, 10:08 PM

ahh hehe i get it now, i was thinking something more powerful than the nappa vegeta guys

Zhan

Sun, 10-02-2005, 10:12 PM

I thought Yami was an Ajuukaru, not Vastorode....he has powers greater than menos and stuff but still far inferior to Uruquiola (obviously a vastorode)

urahara_rulez

Sun, 10-02-2005, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by: basey44
ahh hehe i get it now, i was thinking something more powerful than the nappa vegeta guys

lol nice comparison i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

now what i'm more interested in is how the story will develop from here, SS is taking action, no doubt abt that...

What are aizen's motives? conquer the dead world and subsequently control the living one??? that's two worlds in a certain sense... i mean now that aizen's becomed the supreme leader of the hollow world, are we going to get a hollow society? (yes i know it sounds lame)

Who and what are the visards? imao, they are like you dark jedi or rather, if you would put it dark templar like in starcraft, and what are their motives? (other than ichigo...)

and most importantly, what the hell is urahara planning and what he's gonna do!!!???

it seems like there are 5 major players now:
1) the SS as usual
2) the hollows under aizen's leadership
3) the visards (who are prob more powerful than shinigami)
4) the urahara team!!! (does that include ichigo's father?)
5) the quincies! (whose role i have never been able to figure out)

now i wonder if urahara would patch with SS and cooperate with them, though he prob wouldn't return to SS...
Though i would like to see more action from ichigo's father, and that may prob lead to the answer why ichigo has so much spiritual power...

Assassin

Sun, 10-02-2005, 11:07 PM

i wonder if ichigo's huge spiritual pressure has anyhitng to do with urahara's funky element.

he seems to have known ichigo's dad for quite some time, probably since he left SS. maybe he put the element inside ichigo for safe keeping, kinda like he did with rukia. only with rukia it would've made her human, whereas with ichigo it would just be a safe place. any thoughts?

mage

Sun, 10-02-2005, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by: Zhan
I thought Yami was an Ajuukaru, not Vastorode....he has powers greater than menos and stuff but still far inferior to Uruquiola (obviously a vastorode)

no, grandfisher was an ajuukaru. yami and uruquiola are vastoorodes, uruquiola is just stronger.

Prof. Chaos

Sun, 10-02-2005, 11:24 PM

Zhan

Sun, 10-02-2005, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by: mage

Originally posted by: Zhan
I thought Yami was an Ajuukaru, not Vastorode....he has powers greater than menos and stuff but still far inferior to Uruquiola (obviously a vastorode)

no, grandfisher was an ajuukaru. yami and uruquiola are vastoorodes, uruquiola is just stronger.

grandfisher (menos grande) was a Gilian, not ajukaru. As said by Hitsugaya the grandfisher was what you would consider a peon in an army. Ajukaru is a lot more intelligent and stronger and had a smaller physical size, thus making Yami an ajukaru, isn't that right?

mage

Sun, 10-02-2005, 11:51 PM

grand fisher isnt a menos grande, he even said "don't compare me to those menos peons." hitsugaya said nothing about grand fisher, either, so i have no clue what you're talking about.

let me spell it out for the third time:

gilian -> menos grande (what ichigo fought way back when)
ajuukaru -> grand fisher that ichigo's father killed (not a menos grande)
vastoorode -> uruquiola and yami are all that's left. since they don't look like a menos and are normal human size unlike grand fisher, it can only be concluded that they are both vastoorodes.

urahara_rulez

Mon, 10-03-2005, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by: Assassin
i wonder if ichigo's huge spiritual pressure has anyhitng to do with urahara's funky element.

he seems to have known ichigo's dad for quite some time, probably since he left SS. maybe he put the element inside ichigo for safe keeping, kinda like he did with rukia. only with rukia it would've made her human, whereas with ichigo it would just be a safe place. any thoughts?

that's food for thought...

well urahara did invent the hyogoku thingy, the way aizen put it, it seems like it was urahara's ultimate invention, so powerful that urahara himself was afraid to use it... now given urahara's genius, i won't be surprised if he made another one, or something as powerful in order to counter it... (heck, urahara could have MADE ichigo as the counter for the hyogoku......)

ichigo's dad's is definitely captain level, the question is, is he an official cpt that resigned, or was a special human cpt or something like what ichigo is, a special shinigami. but looking from the shinigami outfit of ichigo's dad, notice that he has that armband that all vice-cpts have? could it be that he was once urahara's vice-cpt???
on the other hand, he has a cape like the other cpts too... (though i don't see a number printed behind)

P.S. - i think aizen looks better with glasses i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Zhan

Mon, 10-03-2005, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by: mage
grand fisher isnt a menos grande, he even said "don't compare me to those menos peons." hitsugaya said nothing about grand fisher, either, so i have no clue what you're talking about.

let me spell it out for the third time:

gilian -> menos grande (what ichigo fought way back when)
ajuukaru -> grand fisher that ichigo's father killed (not a menos grande)
vastoorode -> uruquiola and yami are all that's left. since they don't look like a menos and are normal human size unlike grand fisher, it can only be concluded that they are both vastoorodes.

Oh okay then I thought grandfisher was another way of saying menos grande, didn't know that was actually his name my bad i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Dionysos

Mon, 10-03-2005, 05:44 AM

basey44

Mon, 10-03-2005, 07:06 AM

no, he wouldve had a huge dormant power from his dad or watever which was shown in the 1st ep when he broke rukias spell, the hollow bit came when he developed his own powers with uruhara

complich8

Mon, 10-03-2005, 09:39 AM

A couple comments ...

I think the process that awakened Ichigo to his Shinigami powers also broke the wall between shinigami and hollow for him, making him both at the same time. We saw his hollow-side peeking out from time to time, whenever Ichigo proved too weak to do something by himself. We also know that his hollow-side is a drastically better (more creative, more brutal, more powerful overall) fighter than the shinigami (or just normal) side.

Urahara was probably betting on Ichigo waking up to his shinigami powers at just the right time, and thus ending up both. Either that, or just severing the chain guaranteed some sort of mixed result, as it'd get the hollowfication process (yey! made-up words) started. Although it was riskier than just being a shinigami, the payoff if it worked would be immense. And if not, well ... no point in worrying about what happens if not. Urahara's a crazy bastard like that. Not to mention, what other way IS there to get someone's soul to jump out of his body and pull out a sword?

Grand Fisher was no menos class hollow. He was an ordinary hollow, albeit a sneaky bastard of one. Maybe consider him in the "huge hollow" category, but probably not even that, he was just strong and crafty. When he unmasked, he got arrogant, and challenged a guy who was CLEARLY captain class. He was stronger than your average shinigami (ie: would have owned Rukia), but he was certainly no captain class beast, even unmasked. Hell, Ichigo was able to fight him to a stalemate when he was below even Renji's restricted mode. The only thing that would put him above an ordinary Menos before the whole unmasking would be his intelligence and agility, but that wouldn't even really do it... a Menos using that big menos-flash attack would still probably outpower him.

Something to be aware of is that the whole "Menos" heirarchy is designed for strictly hollows. By unmasking, you go beyond that. Meaning, an unmasked Gilian wouldn't necessarily be a Gilian anymore, but probably wouldn't be higher either. Similarly, Vastrodes are simply extremely rare, uber-powerful menos-class hollows in and of themselves. And they're more powerful than a captain.

The unmasking process (or, rather, the process of shinigami-hollow fusion) has the potential to produce much higher level fighters, given appropriate combat experience and training. Just like Ichigo should be virtually unlimited, by nature of being both hollow and shinigami in a somewhat stable mix, the Vastrodes should have virtually no limit to how powerful they can be when unmasked.

My prediction is that Ichigo's going to have to come to terms with the hollow inside of him, to essentially fuse personalities with the destroyer and get it under control, in order to be on the level of the unmasked Vastrodes.

Finally, while Ulquiola is probably an unmasked Vastrode class, Yami was definitely not. Ulquiola seems pretty confident both that Yami will get himself slaughtered fighting either one of the two legendary captains, and that he could still put up a pretty good fight even without Yami's presence. He gives himself decent, but not excellent odds of winning given the situation, and decides it's not worthwhile. I think Yami was just along for the ride, which would also explain why he's so incredibly huge, and why he doesn't pick up on it when he's clearly drastically overmatched. I like to think of Yami as the equivalent of a vice-captain to Ulquiola... in this case someone he can use to gauge his opponents without getting himself directly entangled.

Dionysos

Mon, 10-03-2005, 12:14 PM

When we are talking about "who is how strong"...i wonder how strong Urahara and Yuruichi are, both of the hollows didnt have a chance against them. Are they as strong as Aizen? Too bad we only saw them fighting once

ChaosK

Mon, 10-03-2005, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by: Prof. Chaos

Originally posted by: mage

Originally posted by: Zhan
I thought Yami was an Ajuukaru, not Vastorode....he has powers greater than menos and stuff but still far inferior to Uruquiola (obviously a vastorode)

no, grandfisher was an ajuukaru. yami and uruquiola are vastoorodes, uruquiola is just stronger.

Wait, wouldn't they just be the immature ones? Like probably vice-captain level?

they're both vastoroode. the immature ones would be ajuukaru, yami and uruquiola are vastroodes but if you read, hitsuyaga said if 10 of them came to soul society (since there are only 10 captains left) soul society would be screwed as in i'm guessing they're strength would be on par (or greater) than that of a captain (with a sick captain and all) but i'm guessing some captains would be able tot ake on vastroodoes (yes i know i've spelt this word 3 different ways already) but you neglect to remember that urahara and yoruichi are "captain level" which means they should be able tot ake on the vastroodoe on par, PLUS it was a 2v1 so yami could've been a vastroorode its just against 2 captains he would lose anyway. but this would mean that aizen probably has like 22 vastroorode and yami+uruquiola would probably be stronger than the rest because he sent them on the mission, if he sent a weaker one urahara would've killed it.

Honoko

Mon, 10-03-2005, 09:03 PM

the M7 translation's out, if anyone's interested.

Konohamaru

Tue, 10-04-2005, 09:51 AM

yes yes, very interesting chapter. Man Aizen looks so evil in his pic on the last page. I do think that Ichi's dad was Urahara's vice captain. I think Urahara is strong since he did manage to get bankai in 3 days like ichigo did. I still wonder what his bankai is. If Ura can defeat Yamii like that in the real world where spirit pressure is lower, I wonder how strong ura is in soul society. Ura is definatly my fave char now and Aizen is the a cool bad guy but not as cool as others from other manga's.

ChaosK

Tue, 10-04-2005, 06:53 PM

the result should be the same though, if urahara's spirit pressure is lower, then yami's should be too.

mage

Tue, 10-04-2005, 09:51 PM

it was said captains and vice captains suppress their spirit energy in order to not disturb the earth, i'm sure yami doesn't care about anything like that.

EpyonNext

Wed, 10-05-2005, 07:59 AM

Isshin will just bounce in and own everyone. Aizen, Allankanar, Vizards, ect will be owned.

Munsu

Wed, 10-05-2005, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by: Konohamaru
yes yes, very interesting chapter. Man Aizen looks so evil in his pic on the last page. I do think that Ichi's dad was Urahara's vice captain. I think Urahara is strong since he did manage to get bankai in 3 days like ichigo did. I still wonder what his bankai is. If Ura can defeat Yamii like that in the real world where spirit pressure is lower, I wonder how strong ura is in soul society. Ura is definatly my fave char now and Aizen is the a cool bad guy but not as cool as others from other manga's.

Gaining the bankai in 3 days is by no means a measure of power. Granted not everyone can do it... But just because they managed to do this method doesn't automatically make them stronger than some of the other strong captains that took years to get their bankai using the long way...

Just because you used a shortcut to get to your destination doesn't make you any faster than the other person that reached the destination through the long way...

ChaosK

Wed, 10-05-2005, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by: mage
it was said captains and vice captains suppress their spirit energy in order to not disturb the earth, i'm sure yami doesn't care about anything like that.

really? i thought it was more like because everything in soul society is made up of spirt force to begin with...(hence ishida's gathering the walls onto his arrow...)

i really dont think it was renji's choice to get injured against ichigo for the sake of the earth, we saw in the chapter before how he was like "they're just humans..." like he cares that much about humans anyway.

kooshi

Wed, 10-05-2005, 01:58 PM

IIRC, captains and vice-captains are forced to suppress their powers before they enter the real world. Maybe as they pass through the gate, something happens to them that forces the suppression. That's the impression that I got anyways.

nests

Wed, 10-05-2005, 10:30 PM

Spoiler pics for 198
Click at own risk

Pic 1 (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=153868qo.jpg)
Pic 2 (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=153912tq.jpg)
Pic 3 (http://img284.imageshack.us/my.php?image=153907nv.jpg)
Pic 4 (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=153842ol.jpg)
Pic 5 (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=153857qx.jpg)
Pic 6 (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=153870xk.jpg)
Pic 7 (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=153881fp.jpg)
Pic 8 (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=153890mq.jpg)