Sasuke VS Neji [Archive] - Page 2

vasco

Mon, 10-10-2005, 04:05 PM

I disapper for a while because I was moving from MO -> AR (still very buzy, but still can write some) Just fews day, 3 page post already... OK, here I come... (don't quote this junk to attack me, attack the following arg.)

Someone say my point without support, here they are not!

1> 64 hits - Chakra point
Why the people always say "64 hits need to hit the chakra point"? Are you telling me Neji need to aim for chakra point of thowing knife and spider? hiting chakra point just one of the way to use (stop chakra flow).
Prove: ep 116-117, 13m00s

2> 128 hits - exist
That right, it is Naruto Opening Discuss, so we should count 128 hits or anything only happened in the anime in.

3> 128 hits - speed
When 128 hits start, all thing seem slower... "it is a camera effect" that is not true. We can see the spider still droping in very very slow speed... I just want to say the speed of Neji/128hits is really fast, I don't think Sasuke body can react with it
Prove: ep 116-117, 13m35s

4> 128 hits - damage
128 hits without hiting chakra is still fatal. Kidoumaru said that
Prove: ep 116-117, 13m55s

5> 64 hits - damage
Lee: "No, it hurts even if it just nicks you" (about Hinata attack to Neji)
Gai: "Hyuuga attempts to damage the chakra circulatory system inside the enemy, AND destory the internal organs"
Why all the people always think 64 hits need to attack chakra point, instead of internal organs? If Sasuke really block 64 hits, his arms will be damage (both chakra system and muscle), which mean dead meat! So, if Sasuke cannot avoid all attack, even just block 1 hit on his finger (he cannot form seal ^_^), can he keep fighting?
Prove: ep46 17m28s / 18m02s

6> Kaiten - defence area

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
5. the ground got damaged but thats from him spinning around, if you spin with enough friction you will make a hole in the ground, thats right but it wasnt his chakra that made the ground dig in, it was the speed he was spinning in. and still, kaiten has a certain radius and it doesnt stay attached to neji, there is space between him and the sheild around him so if sasuke could slip right next to him, how would the kaiten deflect?
If you say is true, then everytime when Neji use Kaiten, he really do a very good job on digging the ground to make it look Kaiten damage (ball shape damage on the ground), COME ON!
ep61 4m56s, ep116-117 7m29s

7> Kaiten - defence power
Tenten: "The moment he is attacked, he releases an enormous amount of chakra from his body's chakra holes. He intercepts the enemy's attack with the ckakra then spins his body like a top to parry the attack
So, Kaiten could defence just by releasing chakra, spliting just make it more powerful.
ep61 4m35s, 6m08s ep116-117 11m37s

8> Bloodline - Kaiten, 64 hits, ...
TenTen: "Even a Jounin can only release a small amount (chakra) from his hands and feet for a special move.
These skills need to released amound of chakra in order to do, So, not all normal (even hard working) Ninja can do.
ep61 6m23s

Got to go... more later...

heero

Mon, 10-10-2005, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by: darkmetal505

Originally posted by: Strider
Seriously. Why the fuck can I never edit my damn posts? And, everytime I click on the "Contact an administrator." or "Click here to notify an administrator." nothing fucking happens.

Mods, where are you?

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
yes hes serious, because naruto did

Naruto did not own Neji.

There wasn't anything Naruto could one-up Neji in, including that battle. He was beaten every which way, and Neji never broke a sweat.

His win, by default, was a plot device. As is everything concerning him. It's his show. When has Naruto lost?

Doesnt matter, naruto still beat him. thats the point. Dont bring up circumstances on your own. You have to use the evidence from the episodes. Also, kishimoto can do whatever he wants. If he wants naruto to own neji, it will be done. Just because it was a so called "plot device" doesnt change the fact that naruto did beat him. And whenever someone says "owned" it means "beaten". Just another idiom.

We are NOT talking about what Kishimoto would do. Alot of people needs to know that. Hell if Kishimoto wanted to, he could of let naruto kill Sasuke when his rasengan hit the head protector. Remember the big hole Naruto did to the huge water container back when him and sasuke were fighting on the roof? You tell me how it makes sence that Kyuubi Naruto's rasengan cant make a hole in a tiny head protector. We are trying to make reasonable predictions here. NOT "what Kishimoto wants to do".

The Heretic Azazel

Mon, 10-10-2005, 04:56 PM

Naruto: I'm sorry ...
Sakura: You sliced his head open?
Naruto: I ..
Sakura: NARUTO YOU PROMISED!
Naruto: Punk had it comming to him
Sakura: Say what?
Naruto: You heard me bizatch, take this (Kage no Justsu + ransangen)

BAM

Naruto: Lets cheeze it Choji.
Choiji: B - B - Q !

Hehe, why aren't you writing the fillers instead?

@ Vasco - What part of AR did you move to?

darkmetal505

Mon, 10-10-2005, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: darkmetal505

Originally posted by: Strider
Seriously. Why the fuck can I never edit my damn posts? And, everytime I click on the "Contact an administrator." or "Click here to notify an administrator." nothing fucking happens.

Mods, where are you?

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
yes hes serious, because naruto did

Naruto did not own Neji.

There wasn't anything Naruto could one-up Neji in, including that battle. He was beaten every which way, and Neji never broke a sweat.

His win, by default, was a plot device. As is everything concerning him. It's his show. When has Naruto lost?

Doesnt matter, naruto still beat him. thats the point. Dont bring up circumstances on your own. You have to use the evidence from the episodes. Also, kishimoto can do whatever he wants. If he wants naruto to own neji, it will be done. Just because it was a so called "plot device" doesnt change the fact that naruto did beat him. And whenever someone says "owned" it means "beaten". Just another idiom.

We are NOT talking about what Kishimoto would do. Alot of people needs to know that. Hell if Kishimoto wanted to, he could of let naruto kill Sasuke when his rasengan hit the head protector. Remember the big hole Naruto did to the huge water container back when him and sasuke were fighting on the roof? You tell me how it makes sence that Kyuubi Naruto's rasengan cant make a hole in a tiny head protector. We are trying to make reasonable predictions here. NOT "what Kishimoto wants to do".

ah, the argument wasnt about that. It was about if naruto beat neji or not. Or rather if neji got "owned".

heero

Mon, 10-10-2005, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by: darkmetal505

ah, the argument wasnt about that. It was about if naruto beat neji or not. Or rather if neji got "owned".
ic...the last time i checked the topic was Sasuke VS Neji. Also, my point still stands that Kishimoto's plot devices has nothing to do with what the characters are capable of (as shown in my naruto vs sasuke example). Just because Kishimoto made Naruto win does not prove that Neji's abilities are inferior to Naruto's. Like wise, just because Kishimoto made Sasuke win does not prove that Sasuke is stronger than Naruto or Chidori is stronger than Rasengan or Curse seal is better than Kyuubi powers. Therefore, you can't say Neji was owned because most people define the word as:

Originally posted by: Strider
I take "owned" as I would take someone saying "blowout."

Like Smokey's, "You got knocked the FUUUUUUUCK OUT~!!"

As in, no contest.

Now linking this back to the topic, just because Kishimoto will probably make Sasuke win in a fight between him and Neji does not mean that Sasuke is stronger than Neji. When we make predictions here we want to stick with the logics. Naruto being able to blow a big hole in a water tank but not able to blast through head protector is not.

darkmetal505

Mon, 10-10-2005, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: darkmetal505

ah, the argument wasnt about that. It was about if naruto beat neji or not. Or rather if neji got "owned".
ic...the last time i checked the topic was Sasuke VS Neji. Also, my point still stands that Kishimoto's plot devices has nothing to do with what the characters are capable of (as shown in my naruto vs sasuke example). Just because Kishimoto made Naruto win does not prove that Neji's abilities are inferior to Naruto's.

It was relevant, at that time.

Jadugar

Mon, 10-10-2005, 09:09 PM

@KENSEE : Welcome to this thread.
@Strider : You should be doing this.

Originally posted by: Kensee
You made me do this.

I like you but you choose the wrong side.
You have brought it on yourself.

I think you failed to grasp the essence of this thread. It's a battle of the strongest. A fight between two elite ninjas. The struggle to be the last man standing alive.

NOT

I like Neji. Neji was an idiot but he is learning. He is not an idiot any more. That's why I like him. He is so cool. He has white eyes. They are very nice to look at.

Go make a Neji Fan (gay) Cub/thread.

Originally posted by: Kensee
I don't care who is the strongest

Why bother voting for Neji then. Oh I know you like him.

Originally posted by: Kensee
See you 360 then dance

WTF

Originally posted by: Kensee

Naruto: I'm sorry ...
Sakura: You sliced his head open?
Naruto: I ..
Sakura: NARUTO YOU PROMISED!
Naruto: Punk had it comming to him
Sakura: Say what?
Naruto: You heard me bizatch, take this (Kage no Justsu + ransangen)

BAM

Naruto: Lets cheeze it Choji.
Choiji: B - B - Q !

Leave this to Terra.

Originally posted by: Kensee
If sasuke acted tough and didn't wear the head protector like naruto told him too, HE WOULD BE DEAD!

Are you on some kind of drugs?

Naruto only scratched his protector. It wasnt a gash. Naruto used the word, "scratch".

BTW, that metal wasnt made out of super alloy titanium.

Originally posted by: Strider
I just noticed you revised your post and put this in there. Heh. Bastard.

My trap worked. You came back from the land of dead.

Originally posted by: Strider
Our champion, Neji, should be the focal point of our discussion

The focal point is the real champ, Sasuke. Not a so called champ, Neji.

Latest vote : Kensee

Originally posted by: Kensee
Meh vote, el Neji.

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 16
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein ]

NEJI : 14
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee ]

vasco

Mon, 10-10-2005, 09:43 PM

For The Heretic Azazel:
I move to Marion AR, 10 miles away from Memphis

cont' my post, even double post, sorry

9> Speed - Neji
How to know how fast can Neji be, here is example: Lee do not have a chance to win neji until Lee open his five gate (with high speed close combat combo). It means Neji can at least as fast as Lee before open his gate.
Prove: ep49 8m49s, ep50 5m18

10> Speed - Sasuke
Lee: "But it looks like you consume a lot of stamina to maintain that speed"
Again, Sasuke has speed, but he is not durable... If he keep with Lee's speed, he will run out of stamina in no time. So, if Neji and Sasuke both fight in Lee speed, Neji has upper hand.
Prove: 66-67 16m8s

11> close combat skill - Neji
Sakura: "Hyuuga style"
Lee: "Konoha's strongest hand-to-hand combat style."
Neji is good at close combat, There is no way Sasuke could win the strongest hand-to-hand combat style, right?
Prove: ep 46 16m10s

12> Close combat skill - Sasuke
Sasuke only has 1 combat skill, Lion combo. And he 'steal' it from Lee. If Neji could win Lee's combo (before open gate), could the same skill work on Neji?

13> Defence: Neji vs Sasuke
Tenten: "Neji's Byakugan's maximum field of vision is almost 360 degrees, and he detects all enemy attacks with it."
... Kaiten ...
Tenten: "In other words, its power is even greater than Gaara's and is another kind of absolute defense"
We do know what Neji has, what about Sasuke...? NOTHING!
ep61 5m23s, 6m43s

14> Long Distant - no result...
If both Neji or Sasuke play long distant instead of close combat, endless battle. Why? are you just keep thowing knife, fireball (sasuke) and so only? There is no fatal hit can do for both Sasuke and Neji, so forget about Long Distant fight.
(Personal opinion, no need to prove)

15> It hurts - even just one hit, not 64 hits
Kakashi: "There is no way to train your internal organs. If you get hit, no matter how tough you arem it'll be fatal"
So, if anyone get hit by Neji, even just once, we could say Neji win almost for sure... no matter that person is Naruto or Neji.
ep46 18m18s

16> Sharingan - Useless
Sharingan funcation: Steal skill, prediction
All Neji skill are Bloodline, no way to steal
Prediction only work if Sasuke can see Neji. If Neji use smoke bomb or out of his sign, no use. No matter it is 2 dot or 3 dot or 1000 dot. (just like Zabuza using mist to blind Kakashi, and it is fair since all Ninja can use smoke bomb) But Byakugan can see ^_^
Prove ep15

17> Blood Seal Lv 2
Again and again, people too focus on it power, but forget it drawback. If Sasuke use it, he got to finish the fight fast, or he will use up all his Chakra, or lose his own mind. Sasuke won't use it until it is the final blast... right?

18> Naruto Hit Neji from ground at ep62
Actually, it doesn't make sence, because Neji has 360 vision, and Naruto is not in his blind point, so there is no way Neji could not 'see' the real Naruto. By conclusion, story require...
(Personal opinion, no need to prove)

19> Neji lose to Naruto
It is because this anime is called "Naruto" not "Neji" and story required Neji to lose to prove something. It is not because Naruto really stronger than Neji. By the way, Neji did not intent to kill Naruto until to end, if he do so, Naruto may die already.
(Personal opinion, no need to prove)

20> Release chakra block - blood seal 2
Try this:
No blood seal > sasuke get hit by 64 > blood seal Lv 1 > Neji use 64 again > blood seal Lv 2 > blood seal Lv 2 > neji hit again > oop... no blood seal Lv 3, game over.
For sure, i assume Neji hit sasuke everytime. But on the other hand, i just want to say, if Sasuke get hit 64 hits when Blood Seal Lv 2, there is no other way for him to recovery his chakra.
(Personal opinion, no need to prove)

21> Chidori - work?
Sasuke can use 2 x chidori only, we know that. and he need to hit the non-moving person. Tell me how Sasuke can make Neji not to move?
(Personal opinion, no need to prove)

OK, overall, By all 21 points I wrote (may be more later), Neji has much upper hand than Sasuke.
i> Neji just need to hit Sasuke once for internal organs damage
ii> Sasuke no absolute defence to block Neji
iii> Sasuke won't use Chidori until finish move.
So, tell me how can Sasuke win? Sasuke fans, bring it on.

Jadugar

Mon, 10-10-2005, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by: vasco
All Neji skill are Bloodline, no way to steal

Wrong

Originally posted by: vasco
Blood Seal Lv 2

Its Cursed Seal lv2

Originally posted by: vasco
It is because this anime is called "Naruto" not "Neji" and story required Neji to lose to prove something. It is not because Naruto really stronger than Neji.

Yes, the fight proved that Naruto is stronger than Neji. Thats why the anime is called Naruto, moron.

Originally posted by: vasco

Tenten says this, Tenten says that.

What does fucking Tenten know. She is fucking useless.

Originally posted by: vasco
Tell me how Sasuke can make Neji not to move?

Show him a picture of vasco(his gay lover). Easy.

Also in all those simulations and calculations you never mentioned, Windmill triplr blades controlled by sharingan. Did I miss it or are you being biased and didnt include it in your fight simulator.

vasco

Mon, 10-10-2005, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: vasco
All Neji skill are Bloodline, no way to steal

Wrong
ok, not all, like the thowing knife one... but you know what we mean!!! otherwise, please name it.

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: vasco
Blood Seal Lv 2

Its Cursed Seal lv2
ok, my bad, not a big deal, you know what I mean!

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: vasco
It is because this anime is called "Naruto" not "Neji" and story required Neji to lose to prove something. It is not because Naruto really stronger than Neji.

Yes, the fight proved that Naruto is stronger than Neji. Thats why the anime is called Naruto, moron.
Side topic, talk with you later ...

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: vasco

Tenten says this, Tenten says that.

What does fucking Tenten know. She is fucking useless.
That is what i quote in the anime, even she is stupid, what she (actually is writer) say is still correct. Neji is strong!

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: vasco
Tell me how Sasuke can make Neji not to move?

Show him a picture of vasco(his gay lover). Easy.
That mean we do the same to sasuke by showing your picture(sasuke gay lover)? then get 64 hits, game over.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
Also in all those simulations and calculations you never mentioned, Windmill triplr blades controlled by sharingan. Did I miss it or are you being biased and didnt include it in your fight simulator.
[/quote]

No problem, I add 'Windmill triplr blades' next time when i write... but it won't work on Neji neither because of Byakugan view. (more detail later.) by the way, if you know more skill that Sasuke has, write now, i don't want to keep write point post by post.

By the way, the things i just wrote are not simulation any more, all of them are the fact from anime with proves.

The Heretic Azazel

Tue, 10-11-2005, 10:54 AM

Vasco's pretty wise, don't let him embarass you Jadugar!

As for the bloodline, the only bloodline Neji has is Byakugan, which allows him to have the 359 degree vision and hit the tenketsu. So, even if Sharingan could copy the 64 palms, he wouldn't know where the tenketsu is.

elmojo

Tue, 10-11-2005, 01:16 PM

*************************************
**there are SPOILERS in this reply**
*************************************

neji vs sasuke is more like it

lets see the difference between the two when it comes to achievements, neji so far didnt resort to any third party power (unlike sasuke), neji has become a jounin (whats sasuke done so far? nothing) when neji and gai sensei and ten ten and rock lee are in a team, its not team gai anymore neji is the one who expresses more leadership style and he is a true genius, gai would have been lost without him

when the sound kidnapped sasuke, neji was the only one who fought without any sort of third party enhancment and won against his own weakness (sasuke just got brutally clapped and kidnapped), neji has already demonstrated he can fight against orichimaru's seals during that mission

naruto did beat neji , that being said..

how many times has naruto saved sasuke? oh what? enough times to traumatize the poor kid so he could go running to orichimaru

when it comes hand to hand combat, neji wins
when it becomes to skill developement (when i say skill development i dont mean stealing skills , i mean actually developing them), neji wins ~ hes a true genius, what did sasuke learn so far? lion hit combo ooh deadly, fire breath? yea when did that become useful, hes done more damage throwing a shuriken than using skills

the only "advantage" sasuke has over neji is his new seal, but then again that thing eats your body away, the way i see it sasuke is going to need it on more than just neji, there are more characters that rival / are equal to sasuke than neji,

when it comes to actually facing an enemy, neji is way more tactical and analytical ~ have you seen what sasuke does? his emotions take over and he screams and does a chidori , way to go dumbass i'm sure that will help you out against itachi .. oh wait no it didnt he got tossed aside like an empty pack of smokes, the only time sasuke actually showed some potential was against gaara, and gaara put him in his place after awhile too

I really can't see any scenario where i would choose sasuke over neji,

i'd would even let neji to babysit sasuke, hes not worth neji's attention

i think potentially sakura could be stronger than sasuke, atleast she beat an akatsuki, sasuke got scolded by an akatsuki member instead and was unconsious for a few days after that

with all the stipulations that were given in this topic,
winner: neji hands down

Assertn

Tue, 10-11-2005, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by: vasco
5> 64 hits - damage
Lee: "No, it hurts even if it just nicks you" (about Hinata attack to Neji)
Gai: "Hyuuga attempts to damage the chakra circulatory system inside the enemy, AND destory the internal organs"
Why all the people always think 64 hits need to attack chakra point, instead of internal organs? If Sasuke really block 64 hits, his arms will be damage (both chakra system and muscle), which mean dead meat! So, if Sasuke cannot avoid all attack, even just block 1 hit on his finger (he cannot form seal ^_^), can he keep fighting?
Prove: ep46 17m28s / 18m02s
64 hands of hakke is different than jyuuken. 64 hands immobolize the enemy, jyuuken damages their organs. You're mixing the quotes and logistics.

9> Speed - Neji
How to know how fast can Neji be, here is example: Lee do not have a chance to win neji until Lee open his five gate (with high speed close combat combo). It means Neji can at least as fast as Lee before open his gate.
Prove: ep49 8m49s, ep50 5m18
You're just formulating a theory based on careful dialogue nitpicking and passing it as a proof. Neji never trained in Lee's taijutsu style, nor has he ever trained with leg weights. I would be surprised if Neji was as fast as lee with his weights ON. He's a defensive type, not offensive...it would be meaningless for him to train for speed.

10> Speed - Sasuke
Lee: "But it looks like you consume a lot of stamina to maintain that speed"
Again, Sasuke has speed, but he is not durable... If he keep with Lee's speed, he will run out of stamina in no time. So, if Neji and Sasuke both fight in Lee speed, Neji has upper hand.
Prove: 66-67 16m8s
Neji doesn't fight in lee speed. And that was only a month after learning lee's taijutsu. Im sure at this point in the series, Sasuke's stamina has increased since then.

11> close combat skill - Neji
Sakura: "Hyuuga style"
Lee: "Konoha's strongest hand-to-hand combat style."
Neji is good at close combat, There is no way Sasuke could win the strongest hand-to-hand combat style, right?
Prove: ep 46 16m10s
I'm sure the "Level 2 Curse Seal" doesn't factor into the list of KONOHA hand-to-hand combat styles. Besides, taijutsu is taijutsu. If there was going to be a quote about "Konoha's strongest tai/ninjutsu style" then Chidori would've beaten jyuuken.

12> Close combat skill - Sasuke
Sasuke only has 1 combat skill, Lion combo. And he 'steal' it from Lee. If Neji could win Lee's combo (before open gate), could the same skill work on Neji?
Huh? 1 combat skill? I don't even know what that means....
Sasuke has more moves than we are even familiar with. This is why he is able to pull something like "sharingan-controlled shuriken blades" without any prior indication of him knowing such a move. I don't even understand the second part of that line. I'm sure grammar would solve that problem though.

13> Defence: Neji vs Sasuke
Tenten: "Neji's Byakugan's maximum field of vision is almost 360 degrees, and he detects all enemy attacks with it."
... Kaiten ...
Tenten: "In other words, its power is even greater than Gaara's and is another kind of absolute defense"
We do know what Neji has, what about Sasuke...? NOTHING!
ep61 5m23s, 6m43s
I think not knowing what Sasuke has gives him more of an advantage than anything else, but that's just me. Gaara's absolute defense was straight up pierced by sasuke's chidori. Can anyone say for sure that the kaiten could block it?

15> It hurts - even just one hit, not 64 hits
Kakashi: "There is no way to train your internal organs. If you get hit, no matter how tough you arem it'll be fatal"
So, if anyone get hit by Neji, even just once, we could say Neji win almost for sure... no matter that person is Naruto or Neji.
ep46 18m18s
refer to my response to point #5

16> Sharingan - Useless
Sharingan funcation: Steal skill, prediction
All Neji skill are Bloodline, no way to steal
Prediction only work if Sasuke can see Neji. If Neji use smoke bomb or out of his sign, no use. No matter it is 2 dot or 3 dot or 1000 dot. (just like Zabuza using mist to blind Kakashi, and it is fair since all Ninja can use smoke bomb) But Byakugan can see ^_^
Prove ep15
Are you implying that Neji is going to sit there, spinning around while throwing smoke bombs all day? What would neji do after he throws a smoke bomb? Pretty much all his attacks are counter-attacks, so unless sasuke just charges in, then I don't see the point.

17> Blood Seal Lv 2
Again and again, people too focus on it power, but forget it drawback. If Sasuke use it, he got to finish the fight fast, or he will use up all his Chakra, or lose his own mind. Sasuke won't use it until it is the final blast... right?
"Final blast" is still part of the fight. And it's usually the part where the winner is determined too. What's your point?

18> Naruto Hit Neji from ground at ep62
Actually, it doesn't make sence, because Neji has 360 vision, and Naruto is not in his blind point, so there is no way Neji could not 'see' the real Naruto. By conclusion, story require...
(Personal opinion, no need to prove)
I'll respond anyway. Neji couldve seen naruto underground, but he wasnt using his byakugan at the time. If you were neji, and had your chakra almost depleted, and saw an unconscious naruto lying in a crater, would your instinct be to search underground for kage bunshins?

21> Chidori - work?
Sasuke can use 2 x chidori only, we know that. and he need to hit the non-moving person. Tell me how Sasuke can make Neji not to move?
(Personal opinion, no need to prove)
First of all, sasuke used 3 chidoris against Naruto. The lv 2 seal gave him enough for a 3rd.
Second of all, who says the target can't be moving? The whole purpose of the sharingan in conjunction with the chidori is so it can anticipate movement and act accordingly.

Tinks

Tue, 10-11-2005, 04:15 PM

I would think the fact that Neji doesnt train alone, would give him the advantage as of now
Also I would assume Sasuke is distracted by his current problems to even train on the same level as Neji
Also the fact that Neji is still continuing his missions and having new experiences with problem solving that Sasuke wont get anymore, is another advantage
So Neji would naturally have the upper hand since he has more resources and better chances to train

Strider

Tue, 10-11-2005, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
@Strider : You should be doing this.

I should be doing what .. ? i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
64 hands of hakke is different than jyuuken. 64 hands immobolize the enemy, jyuuken damages their organs. You're mixing the quotes and logistics.

Word.

This is true. 64 Hands of Hakke is different, but still a form of Jyuuken. Jyuuken is where chakra is emitted with each strike with intent to damage an enemy's internal organs. I think we can all agree on this, considering I'm sure that's an accurate enough description or match to what's been said about it.

However, 64 Hands of Hakke is a modification of Jyuuken, if you will. It's more refined, and utilized to precisely damage and affect the myriad tenketsu. While not fatal, it might as well be, considering it can completely deprive you from accessing your chakra, or forcibly cause you to instantly exert all of your energy and expel your chakra reserves.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
You're just formulating a theory based on careful dialogue nitpicking and passing it as a proof. Neji never trained in Lee's taijutsu style, nor has he ever trained with leg weights. I would be surprised if Neji was as fast as lee with his weights ON. He's a defensive type, not offensive...it would be meaningless for him to train for speed.

This stuff isn't real. Dialogue and viewing is all we have. From that, we gather the truth and disperse as proof / fact.

I disagree. I believe Neji is as fast as Lee, which is why Gai continuously taught him (or allowed him) to continue opening gates to push his limits in speed. Neji's speed, as well as his speed with registering everything that is occurring around him and act towards anything in whatever given direction, must be great. If Neji's speed with his own body, as well as utilizing the Byakugan, was not anything remarkable, why bother going beyond Omote Renge?

Also, Neji is a strategist. He is neither defensive or primarily offensive. He quickly adapts to his situation, and never enters a battle with all his skills at the ready. He tests the waters, then proceeds accordingly from there.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Neji doesn't fight in lee speed. And that was only a month after learning lee's taijutsu. Im sure at this point in the series, Sasuke's stamina has increased since then.

You need stamina to move at such speeds, and there have not been many situations or instances of time where Sasuke would have such time to condition himself to moving faster, or even becoming capable of maintaining the initial speed boost he was taught.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I'm sure the "Level 2 Curse Seal" doesn't factor into the list of KONOHA hand-to-hand combat styles. Besides, taijutsu is taijutsu. If there was going to be a quote about "Konoha's strongest tai/ninjutsu style" then Chidori would've beaten jyuuken.

I don't think "Curse Seal" is categorized as it's own, individual fighting style.

Taijutsu is Taijutsu. Jyuuken is the strongest Taijutsu style.

Ninjutsu is Ninjutsu. We know it's not, but we'll say - Chidori is the strongest Ninjutsu technique.

You just gave us apples and oranges. What were you trying to say? Your point eluded me.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I think not knowing what Sasuke has gives him more of an advantage than anything else, but that's just me. Gaara's absolute defense was straight up pierced by sasuke's chidori. Can anyone say for sure that the kaiten could block it?

Where does Sasuke have the advantage, in this situation? Sasuke knows nothing of the Hyuuga, and has never seen Neji fight. Neji watched his battles, though.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Are you implying that Neji is going to sit there, spinning around while throwing smoke bombs all day? What would neji do after he throws a smoke bomb? Pretty much all his attacks are counter-attacks, so unless sasuke just charges in, then I don't see the point.

You seriously think Jyuuken techniques are solely counter-attacks, or defensively-based? If there's an opening - BOOM! There goes one of your organs. It's really that simple. Especially if Sasuke is blinded, by vasco's example of smoke bombs.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
"Final blast" is still part of the fight. And it's usually the part where the winner is determined too. What's your point?

Again, in regards to the culmination of this battle ..

The final blast would be Neji's palm pressing against the left breast of Sasuke, chakra pouring forth through the traitor's flesh, emitting through the bastard child's back, simultaneous to the ventricles and auricles and atriums and every other part of the heart exploding.

.. The pre-final blast would be Sasuke's arm slicing through Neji's chest like a warm knife through butter, with an uber Chidori.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I'll respond anyway. Neji couldve seen naruto underground, but he wasnt using his byakugan at the time. If you were neji, and had your chakra almost depleted, and saw an unconscious naruto lying in a crater, would your instinct be to search underground for kage bunshins?

Agreed.

Seriously.

You put your guns away, when you're confident of victory.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
First of all, sasuke used 3 chidoris against Naruto. The lv 2 seal gave him enough for a 3rd.
Second of all, who says the target can't be moving? The whole purpose of the sharingan in conjunction with the chidori is so it can anticipate movement and act accordingly.

Sasuke has to stay away. There is no way he can remain close, and not be touched once, which is all Jyuuken needs.

And, I don't see how victory can be possible from such a distance. Impatience, plus irritation of Neji being better than he expected will cause an abrupt change into the Curse Seal form, and with his energy peaking (and also depreciating from being in that state), he'll go in for the kill. And, succeed - but also die in the process.

UPDATED SCORE

S A S U K E : 15
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein ]

N E J I : 15
[ DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo ]

It seems it's a tie. Mut's vote was removed since well, he's banned .. he doesn't count anymore. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

.. What .. ?! I was kidding. Shit. Correct scoreboard is below. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

UPDATED SCORE

S A S U K E : 16
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein ]

N E J I : 16
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks ]

EDIT: Added Tinks. Good man. Level playing field, all over again. Wake up, Jad'.

Assertn

Tue, 10-11-2005, 07:13 PM

damn, sniped by Strider....

64 Hands of Hakke is a modification of Jyuuken, if you will. It's more refined, and utilized to precisely damage and affect the myriad tenketsu. While not fatal, it might as well be, considering it can completely deprive you from accessing your chakra, or forcibly cause you to instantly exert all of your energy and expel your chakra reserves.
In all honesty....I dont know why anyone would prefer to use 64 HOH over jyuuken. One immobilizes, the other can instantly kill. ::shrug::

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
You're just formulating a theory based on careful dialogue nitpicking and passing it as a proof. Neji never trained in Lee's taijutsu style, nor has he ever trained with leg weights. I would be surprised if Neji was as fast as lee with his weights ON. He's a defensive type, not offensive...it would be meaningless for him to train for speed.

This stuff isn't real. Dialogue and viewing is all we have. From that, we gather the truth and disperse as proof / fact.

I disagree. I believe Neji is as fast as Lee, which is why Gai continuously taught him (or allowed him) to continue opening gates to push his limits in speed. Neji's speed, as well as his speed with registering everything that is occurring around him and act towards anything in whatever given direction, must be great. If Neji's speed with his own body, as well as utilizing the Byakugan, was not anything remarkable, why bother going beyond Omote Renge?

Also, Neji is a strategist. He is neither defensive or primarily offensive. He quickly adapts to his situation, and never enters a battle with all his skills at the ready. He tests the waters, then proceeds accordingly from there.
I'm aware that dialogue and viewing is all we have. I use that to prove my points as well. But there's only a certain point you can get before you're taking things too literally, out of the context that the writer intended.

Any accusation of Neji being as fast as Lee is pure speculation, and only supported by Gai saying that Lee's gate unlocking was the requirement to beating Neji. Note that this correlation does NOT mean that Neji is as fast as Lee prior to unlocking gates. Speed isnt the only thing capable of countering speed. If this was the case, then Kisame wouldn't have been kicking Gai's ass most of their rematch in the manga. When Lee acknowledged that Sasuke's assimilation of his taijutsu + doujutsu made him superior to himself, I did not feel that he could make the same statement about Neji's taijutsu + doujutsu. And, as Gai put it, Lee and Neji are different types of taijutsu masters. Lee's focus is external damage through speed and power, but Neji is all about chakra control and accuracy. Speed is required for lee, but not for Neji. Just because they are on the same team doesn't mean that they even remotely train in the same methods.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Neji doesn't fight in lee speed. And that was only a month after learning lee's taijutsu. Im sure at this point in the series, Sasuke's stamina has increased since then.

You need stamina to move at such speeds, and there have not been many situations or instances of time where Sasuke would have such time to condition himself to moving faster, or even becoming capable of maintaining the initial speed boost he was taught.
He didn't seem to be gasping for breath keeping up with kyubi naruto. And kyubi naruto is quite a speed demon in his own right.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I'm sure the "Level 2 Curse Seal" doesn't factor into the list of KONOHA hand-to-hand combat styles. Besides, taijutsu is taijutsu. If there was going to be a quote about "Konoha's strongest tai/ninjutsu style" then Chidori would've beaten jyuuken.

I don't think "Curse Seal" is categorized as it's own, individual fighting style.

Taijutsu is Taijutsu. Jyuuken is the strongest Taijutsu style.

Ninjutsu is Ninjutsu. We know it's not, but we'll say - Chidori is the strongest Ninjutsu technique.

You just gave us apples and oranges. What were you trying to say? Your point eluded me.
heh, lets not talk semantics about a response to a barely legible opening statement.
The point I was making was that it doesnt matter if jyuuken is the strongest taijutsu if its paired up against a melee ninjutsu like chidori.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I think not knowing what Sasuke has gives him more of an advantage than anything else, but that's just me. Gaara's absolute defense was straight up pierced by sasuke's chidori. Can anyone say for sure that the kaiten could block it?

Where does Sasuke have the advantage, in this situation? Sasuke knows nothing of the Hyuuga, and has never seen Neji fight. Neji watched his battles, though.
I'm pretty sure the guy meant us the viewers not knowing what sasuke has, not the characters in the series. I like how you didn't respond to my accusation that chidori can probably pierce through kaiten though.

I'm not really sure why clans wouldn't know much about each other. It's actually kinda dumb to not know about the aburame clan and the hyuga clan, since they're both significant entities within the same village. But, just like with kidoumaru, if anyone needs to be caught up to speed about a character's abilities that we are already familiar with, then it'll happen soon enough. Maybe sasuke will throw a few shurikens at neji and all will be revealed to him.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Are you implying that Neji is going to sit there, spinning around while throwing smoke bombs all day? What would neji do after he throws a smoke bomb? Pretty much all his attacks are counter-attacks, so unless sasuke just charges in, then I don't see the point.

You seriously think Jyuuken techniques are solely counter-attacks, or defensively-based? If there's an opening - BOOM! There goes one of your organs. It's really that simple. Especially if Sasuke is blinded, by vasco's example of smoke bombs.
When do ninjas leave openings though? Usually right after they miss an attack, hence the counter-attack.
I'm not saying jyuuken HAS to be solely counter-attack, but every time we've seen it, its been for that purpose. Considering that hyuga's speciality is observing enemy movement, I'd say it would be reasonable for them to concentrate mostly on countering opponents rather than anything else. And Tenten even said herself "Neji is defensive, he's not at all offensive" (or something unpoetic like that).

Jaredster

Tue, 10-11-2005, 07:39 PM

http://www.leafninja.com/biographies-H.php#Neji

and

http://www.leafninja.com/biographies-U.php#Sasuke

Look at them both and decide.

The Heretic Azazel

Tue, 10-11-2005, 07:48 PM

Wow, the name Neji means Screw,

Assertn

Tue, 10-11-2005, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by: Jaredster
http://www.leafninja.com/biographies-H.php#Neji

and

http://www.leafninja.com/biographies-U.php#Sasuke

Look at them both and decide.

yeah, and lee also has apparently the same taijutsu/speed stats as neji, which is shown to be higher than sasuke's
i wouldn't hold any weight on it to the discussion. Especially since im sure those stats represent the introductory levels of the characters from the first two seasons

heero

Tue, 10-11-2005, 10:51 PM

I got a question...if naruto failed so many times, how come he grad the same age as sasuke and the others?

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Tue, 10-11-2005, 11:06 PM

One vote for Neji please!

i/expressions/devil.gif

Strider

Tue, 10-11-2005, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
damn, sniped by Strider....

I found this cute. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Any accusation of Neji being as fast as Lee is pure speculation, and only supported by Gai saying that Lee's gate unlocking was the requirement to beating Neji. Note that this correlation does NOT mean that Neji is as fast as Lee prior to unlocking gates.

YOSH'~!!

The correlation does not mean Neji is as fast as Lee or faster. However, it should be clear that Neji is fast enough, and / or strong enough to handle Lee's taijutsu prior to the unleashing of the Proud Green Beast's signature technique.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Speed isnt the only thing capable of countering speed. If this was the case, then Kisame wouldn't have been kicking Gai's ass most of their rematch in the ma

Having speed doesn't mean it's always utilized. Gai realized Kisame was of a higher calibre, and so that there would not be any questions as to his opponent's survival, Gai unleashed the beast with his six gates.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
When Lee acknowledged that Sasuke's assimilation of his taijutsu + doujutsu made him superior to himself, I did not feel that he could make the same statement about Neji's taijutsu + doujutsu. And, as Gai put it, Lee and Neji are different types of taijutsu masters. Lee's focus is external damage through speed and power, but Neji is all about chakra control and accuracy. Speed is required for lee, but not for Neji. Just because they are on the same team doesn't mean that they even remotely train in the same methods.

I took Lee's acknowledgment of Sasuke's training as a sign of his vast potential. At that moment, it was amazing (amazingly cheesy) to see Sasuke moving just like Lee. However, he could not sustain it. So, where's the justification that Sasuke's superior to Lee? Because Sasuke could copy Lee's movements and train to acheive whatever level of speed desired, it opens up more doors for Sasuke than Lee could imagine or aspire to. That's why such a statement was made.

And, Gai tried teaching them all the same certain techniques. Think that eliminates that last comment of yours.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
He didn't seem to be gasping for breath keeping up with kyubi naruto. And kyubi naruto is quite a speed demon in his own right.

.. What are you talking about?

Once Naruto took on the Kyuubi "One-Tail" form, Sasuke got pimped smacked twice, fire off a Katon: Goukyaku no Jutsu, and then activated the Curse Seal and advanced into Stage 2. He was basically immobile the entire time.

Even before then, Naruto was moving towards him. Sasuke sidestepped a few times, and punched him in the face. Kicked him square in the jaw, too. That was it. The only thing moving fast for Sasuke were his eyes.

Where and when did the two have to keep up with one another?

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
heh, lets not talk semantics about a response to a barely legible opening statement.

You had me ballin' over with this one, considering I was in the same boat as you.

He completely lost me with his comments. Hahaha.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
The point I was making was that it doesnt matter if jyuuken is the strongest taijutsu if its paired up against a melee ninjutsu like chidori.

It does, though. Since Chidori is a Melee-ranged Ninjutsu, the caster of Chidori is now within proximity to be harmed by the strongest Taijutsu.

Did I miss your point, again? i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I'm pretty sure the guy meant us the viewers not knowing what sasuke has, not the characters in the series. I like how you didn't respond to my accusation that chidori can probably pierce through kaiten though.

That wasn't intentional. I never noticed that second line, while thinking of my retort. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Gaara's Sphere of Sand was stationary. It's easier to penetrate. Plus, it's fuckin' sand. You know how often I'd kick little kids' sand castles down at the beach? And, that barely took any effort at all! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Maybe sasuke will throw a few shurikens at neji and all will be revealed to him.

Yup. All will be revealed to him, since Neji will Kaiten and 64 Hands of Hakke those damned shuriken to hell.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
And Tenten even said herself "Neji is defensive, he's not at all offensive" (or something unpoetic like that).

If Tenten did say something like that, I bet she said it better than that. Sheesh.

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Wow, the name Neji means Screw,

It represents what occurs to all that fuck with him.

As in, "Sasuke would get Neji 'd, trying to fuck with the Hyuuga genius."

.. Okay, that was lame. But, you got my damn drift!

EDIT:

Originally posted by: heero
I got a question...if naruto failed so many times, how come he grad the same age as sasuke and the others?

I wondered the same. Although, I think Naruto had been in the Academy for three years, right?

And, Iruka felt sorry for the Demon Fox-boy.

Thanks for the vote, iMUSTbeTHEdevil. Your vote has given Neji a one vote edge. Rightfully so.

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Tue, 10-11-2005, 11:18 PM

GO NEJI GO!

Anytime Strider =)

i/expressions/devil.gif

Assertn

Tue, 10-11-2005, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
damn, sniped by Strider....
I found this cute.
I aim to amuse i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Any accusation of Neji being as fast as Lee is pure speculation, and only supported by Gai saying that Lee's gate unlocking was the requirement to beating Neji. Note that this correlation does NOT mean that Neji is as fast as Lee prior to unlocking gates.

YOSH'~!!

The correlation does not mean Neji is as fast as Lee or faster. However, it should be clear that Neji is fast enough, and / or strong enough to handle Lee's taijutsu prior to the unleashing of the Proud Green Beast's signature technique.
I wasn't arguing that neji couldn't counter lee's taijutsu prior to the omote renge, I'm just saying that it's no indication that he has lee's speed is all.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Speed isnt the only thing capable of countering speed. If this was the case, then Kisame wouldn't have been kicking Gai's ass most of their rematch in the ma

Having speed doesn't mean it's always utilized. Gai realized Kisame was of a higher calibre, and so that there would not be any questions as to his opponent's survival, Gai unleashed the beast with his six gates.
For both Lee and Gai, all their moves focus on sheer physical speed and strength. To not utilize it would mean to disregard what he is known best for. Kisame just had a real good defense, kinda like Neji wouldve against lee.

And, Gai tried teaching them all the same certain techniques. Think that eliminates that last comment of yours.

I'd say for about 90% of the time, Gai just leaves Neji and Tenten to themselves for most of their training. Both of them specialize in techniques that Gai probably can't help too much with, and neither of them seem to respect gai all that much anyway. Sure Gai tried teaching all 3 of them the ura renge, but also note that kakashi, without lee's-style training, was also able to open up the first gate. I don't even think there's any speed prerequisite for gate unlocking anyway, it just so happens that everyone who takes gate unlocking seriously also takes speed seriously.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
The point I was making was that it doesnt matter if jyuuken is the strongest taijutsu if its paired up against a melee ninjutsu like chidori.

It does, though. Since Chidori is a Melee-ranged Ninjutsu, the caster of Chidori is now within proximity to be harmed by the strongest Taijutsu.

Did I miss your point, again?
Huh? Maybe you did....
You said it was like comparing apples to oranges, but both moves in question are melee type....which is why such a comparison can be a valid one. However, the guy's argument was that Neji had the strength advantage in close combat because he has the strongest taijutsu. And I'm saying sasuke has the advantage in close combat because he has a melee ninjutsu thats stronger than the strongest taijutsu. Jyuken may have the potential of being fatal, but it certainly took more than one direct hit to put hinata in a near-death state, which is more than how many it wouldve taken if it was sasuke with a chidori instead.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
I'm pretty sure the guy meant us the viewers not knowing what sasuke has, not the characters in the series. I like how you didn't respond to my accusation that chidori can probably pierce through kaiten though.

That wasn't intentional. I never noticed that second line, while thinking of my retort.

Gaara's Sphere of Sand was stationary. It's easier to penetrate. Plus, it's fuckin' sand. You know how often I'd kick little kids' sand castles down at the beach? And, that barely took any effort at all!
What about sand castles molded together from the chakra of a demon? Sasuke pulled off what nobody in the sand village could pull off....penetrating gaara's absolute defense. I think that has to count for something. We're talking sand hardened from the chakra of a demon vs raw chakra from a genius genin. Everything has to have a threshold where it can be penetrated. Especially in anime.

XanBcoo

Wed, 10-12-2005, 12:09 AM

Just wanted to bring up that it was stated that Gaara's sand sheild is as hard as steel.

Even before then, Naruto was moving towards him. Sasuke sidestepped a few times, and punched him in the face. Kicked him square in the jaw, too. That was it. The only thing moving fast for Sasuke were his eyes.

Where and when did the two have to keep up with one another?

Basically throughout the whole episode (prior to "one tail" Naruto). And if you're talking about after Sasuke acheived the third dot, then I will also bring up that he technically "killed" Naruto - who was only saved because of Mr. Foxy.

Strider

Wed, 10-12-2005, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Huh? Maybe you did....
You said it was like comparing apples to oranges, but both moves in question are melee type....which is why such a comparison can be a valid one. However, the guy's argument was that Neji had the strength advantage in close combat because he has the strongest taijutsu. And I'm saying sasuke has the advantage in close combat because he has a melee ninjutsu thats stronger than the strongest taijutsu. Jyuken may have the potential of being fatal, but it certainly took more than one direct hit to put hinata in a near-death state, which is more than how many it wouldve taken if it was sasuke with a chidori instead.

Yeah, I had missed your point. I see what you're saying now.

But, it was only one hit that placed Hinata into critical condition. All the previous hits were done with the intent of closing her tenketsu and chakra access, to simply eliminate the need for the fight continue. However, with Naruto's idiotic self continuously cheering for her to go further, the hostility in Neji escalated and that is when the intent to kill entered the fray.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
What about sand castles molded together from the chakra of a demon? Sasuke pulled off what nobody in the sand village could pull off....penetrating gaara's absolute defense. I think that has to count for something. We're talking sand hardened from the chakra of a demon vs raw chakra from a genius genin. Everything has to have a threshold where it can be penetrated. Especially in anime.

It wasn't Shukaku's chakra with the Sphere of Sand. That was Gaara's. It was done to allow him a moment to hibernate, and allow the demon to gain control, at that point.

Everything has a threshold. Right.

I simply hold Kaiten's in much higher regard then Gaara's bullshit sand castle, is all. Plus, what I was inferring, is that Gaara was stationary. Kaiten is moving, which provides much more resistance, causing a greater force to be directly applied to penetrate.

I know you feel Chidori easily fits this bill, but I'm too stubborn to see otherwise. I understand your argument to this point, but I simply don't agree.

And, 'cause you all demanded it .. !!

UPDATED SCORE

S A S U K E : 16
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein ]

N E J I : 17
[ DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil ]

I'm going to get promoted soon too, I think.

So, before I do .. the GW Genin Squad on a mission to enlighten those around us to Neji's brilliance and greatness is .. Dezalanel, Heretic Azazel, Heero, DrCitan and myself. Jadugar and XanBcoo can kill each other for Jounin ownership. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

EDIT: STOP POSTING WHILE I'M POSTING AND QUOTING YOU ALL, DAMNIT!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Basically throughout the whole episode. And if you're talking about after Sasuke acheived the third dot, then I will also bring up that he technically "killed" Naruto - who was only saved because of Mr. Foxy.

I was never referring to the episodes, as none of that actually occurred in the manga.

Naruto was not killed. He received an extremely hard heel to his jaw, and was nearly unconscious in the water. The fox then took over, after laughing about how pathetic he was.

We're sticking to the manga. The anime can go to hell.

Jadugar

Wed, 10-12-2005, 05:09 AM

@ : JAREDSTER

Stop shitting in my thread. You didnt have the balls to discuss anything before

Originally posted by: Jaredster
this debate is getting to huge for me.

and I doubt that anything has changed. First you said you voted then you said, you didnt. You vote and opinion are meaningless to us. Dont bother coming in here EVER.

@ : iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Originally posted by: Strider
Thanks for the vote, iMUSTbeTHEdevil. Your vote has given Neji a one vote edge. Rightfully so

rightfully?

Originally posted by: iMUSTbeTHEdevil
One vote for Neji please!

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

uMUSTbeSTUPID

I am not taking any pizza orders, moron. You want to vote for Neji, fine go write me a fucking post which is more than five words, two sentences and 20 words.

@: STRIDER

iMUSTbeTHEdevil's vote has been put on standby. WHY?

"Y" posted in this thread with vague comment that Sasuke can do this and Neji can do this. I pm'ed him to give me a definite answer and he edited his post and voted for Neji.

Thats what I want. Someone who has made-up his mind, willing to discuss and can backup his arguments.

Some of Vasco's posts have been ridiculed by everyone in this thread and even you. Some of the stuff he says doesnt make any sense but I like his enthusiasm.

You want "iMUSTbeTHEdevil"'s vote counted. Page him, pm him and ask him to write more than two sentences on Neji. Then I will reconsider his vote.

You have seem to forgotten that I created this thread. I created this thread because people can discuss Sasuke and Neji's characters in detail.

Let me remind you again. MY THREAD, MY RULESi/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

As for the update score I have been doing it perfectly fine and with honesty. There is no need for you to put updated score at the end you your post. That privilege is only for me and only me (owner). I think you can be pretty sure that I will not pull a fast one on you but my decision will be final on the scoring thing and I have discarded that n00b's (iMUSTnrSTUPID) vote. My updated score after one or two pages is more than enough and I also have been editing the first page (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=16315&enterthrea d=y) of this thread which shows the latest votes and scores.

So refrain from putting updated score in your posts. Everyone knows where they stand if they bother to come and check. Although you can put a reminder in your post that includes latest votes.

Latest score:

Tinks, Elmojo.

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 16
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein ]

NEJI : 16
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, Elmojo, Tinks ]

NOTE: dont have enough time to respond to your comments, will get back to you as soon as possible.
My thanks to all of you who have been participating in this thread.

XanBcoo

Wed, 10-12-2005, 09:39 AM

Wow...don't let all that "power" go to your head Jadugar....i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

@Strider: I haven't read the manga version of episode 133. Although I guessed the fight might have been "spiced up" a bit, I wasn't aware that it was radically different.

vasco

Wed, 10-12-2005, 10:19 AM

Thanks to Strider answer AssertnFailure, but I should Response to AssertnFailure questions as well

Point 5> 64 hit damage (64 hit only block ckakra, no internal organs damage)
Lee: "So, if your ckakra circulatory system is attacked, you will take damage to your internal organs, too"
By the way, Neji don't want to kill everyone in the exam (actually he does at the end), there is no reason make Hinata or Naruto completely die, right. I think 64 hits can be fatal if Neji wish... Next...
Prove: ep46 19m28s

Point 9> Speed - Neji
Acutally, I don't need to response to this since Jaredster provided the URL of Neji and Sasuke, but I like to arg, so I tell you my points
If Lee could beat Neji just by dropping the weight, Lee did it for long time! That mean Lee still could not win Neji by dropping weight. And Sasuke (actually no one) won't able to caught up with Lee when he open 5 gate (may be Haku?).

Point 10> Speed - Sasuke
But most of the time, Sasuke are in sick bed, how can he train his stamina? (by doing...? Hentai!) Next...

Point 11>close combat skill - Neji
"Hyuuga style" is combat skill, which give you good move
"Level 2 Curse Seal" only give you power, will not give you good move.
For example... Chidori (as curse seal) is powerful, but Kakashi and Itachi (as "Hyuuga style") could take care it easily

Point 12> Close combat skill - Sasuke
Le me make sure this first... close combat skill will be like Neji's 64hits, Lee's lotus, sasuke's Lion Combo, Naruto's Uzumaki combo... "sharingan-controlled shuriken blades" should be long distant or so since sasuke need to thow it.
So, the only sasuke's close combat skill he knows is Lion Combo. And Lion combo begining action is copy from Lee. will Neji fall for it.
Kakashi: "The move before the Lion Combo was a Gai hand-to-hand combat move. So he copied it with his Sharingan when he fought that Lee kid."
If you know more sasuke close combat skill, please tell me instead of saying "a lot"
Prove: ep39 10m05s

Point 13> Defence: Neji vs Sasuke
I believing I am talking defence. I am saying Neji defence is much stronger than Sasuke, that all. But you say "chidori vs Kaiten"? I will cover chidori later...

Point 15> It hurts - even just one hit, not 64 hits
Covered by point 5 and 1 (64 hits - no need to hit Chakra point)

Point 16> Shanringan - Useless
Zabuza say something like that before, if Shanringan could not see the target, it won't able to read the move / mind / anything, that why Zabuza use mist to 'blind' Kakashi. So if Sasuke could not see Neji (let say by smoke bomb), sasuke's shanringan will be almost usless (besides use chidori). But Neji has Byakugan, which allow him to see even in smoke or so. I don't think Sasuke could block 64 hits without Shanringan (or just eye).

Point 17> Blood Seal Lv 2
If "Final blast" is the first move in the battle. If Sasuke so unlucky, he blocks 64 hits with his arm and get damage, won't able to use chidori, no matter how much Chikara he has, it will become useless. (Even i assume sasuke block 64 hits, but very high chance it happened, right?)

Point 18>Naruto Hit Neji from ground at ep62
I believe Ninja should 2 (at least 1) step ahead of your enemy (they always say in Ninja Academic), that is what Naruto did in ep62. When did Neji from 'Genius' become 'idiots' level ninja?
(out of topic, last post)

Point 21>Chidori - work?
It doesn't matter 3x or 2x Sasuke could use, the more important is how he use. Since Sasuke has limited time to chidori, so he won't waste it in kaiten (may be he will in anime since people want to see) or just random use (he kind of did when vs Naruto). If Kakashi and Itachi could stop Chidori so easy, why can't Neji? And what if Sasuke get damage in his arm from 64 hits? (ok, too much 'if')
Sasuke is not stupid, to make sure he won't waste Chakra, he will make sure Neji won't able to dodge it. Just like Sasuke Vs Naruto, Sasuke need to immobile Neji/Naruto first.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
When do ninjas leave openings though? Usually right after they miss an attack....
In ep127-128 28m50s, Sasuke wide open for Naruto attack ^_^
By the way, when did Tenten or anyone say "Neji is defence type, not offence"? (I just want to know)

New point:
22>"sharingan-controlled shuriken blades"
OK.. Shuriken Blades... the "shadow windmill", the same thing in ep8, right?
i> It is big + heavy, which need to carry with back-pack (see ep 8)or so... If Sasuke really carrys it, it will decrease Sasuke reaction speed.
ii> It is not a standard eq., normal Ninjas, besides in mission, they won't carry it (he did not use when in exam or vs naruto)!
iii> Even if Sasuke carry and use it on Neji, Neji can dodge it, block it, or even catch it (Since he has 360 vision, and can see which one and where the real blades is).
iv> I think no one will carry 2 set of blade, right? So, if Sasuke use once and block/lose the blade, no more...
v> Sasuk need to use Sharingan to use, right? So, if he could not see (like in smoke), it won't work.
vi> You think Neji is stupid, give time to Sasuke to use it? (unluckily, Yes. In anime world, player always wait for another player to attack)

I did not see it in anime (that all i watch), please tell me which ep it appear, and please correct me if i say anything wrong.

By the way, Jadugar, thanks for your "I like his enthusiasm.", but please also be nice to others as well... In this thread, we may enemy, but next thread, we may be allias... We are all Naruto fans, right?

vasco

Wed, 10-12-2005, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by: vasco
Thanks to Strider answer AssertnFailure, but I should Response to AssertnFailure questions as well

Point 5> 64 hit damage (64 hit only block ckakra, no internal organs damage)
Lee: "So, if your ckakra circulatory system is attacked, you will take damage to your internal organs, too"
By the way, Neji don't want to kill everyone in the exam (actually he does at the end), there is no reason make Hinata or Naruto completely die, right. I think 64 hits can be fatal if Neji wish... Next...
Prove: ep46 19m28s

Point 9> Speed - Neji
Acutally, I don't need to response to this since Jaredster provided the URL of Neji and Sasuke, but I like to arg, so I tell you my points
If Lee could beat Neji just by dropping the weight, Lee did it for long time! That mean Lee still could not win Neji by dropping weight. And Sasuke (actually no one) won't able to caught up with Lee when he open 5 gate (may be Haku?).

Point 10> Speed - Sasuke
But most of the time, Sasuke are in sick bed, how can he train his stamina? (by doing...? Hentai!) Next...

Point 11>close combat skill - Neji
"Hyuuga style" is combat skill, which give you good move
"Level 2 Curse Seal" only give you power, will not give you good move.
For example... Chidori (as curse seal) is powerful, but Kakashi and Itachi (as "Hyuuga style") could take care it easily

Point 12> Close combat skill - Sasuke
Le me make sure this first... close combat skill will be like Neji's 64hits, Lee's lotus, sasuke's Lion Combo, Naruto's Uzumaki combo... "sharingan-controlled shuriken blades" should be long distant or so since sasuke need to thow it.
So, the only sasuke's close combat skill he knows is Lion Combo. And Lion combo begining action is copy from Lee. will Neji fall for it.
Kakashi: "The move before the Lion Combo was a Gai hand-to-hand combat move. So he copied it with his Sharingan when he fought that Lee kid."
If you know more sasuke close combat skill, please tell me instead of saying "a lot"
Prove: ep39 10m05s

Point 13> Defence: Neji vs Sasuke
I believing I am talking defence. I am saying Neji defence is much stronger than Sasuke, that all. But you say "chidori vs Kaiten"? I will cover chidori later...

Point 15> It hurts - even just one hit, not 64 hits
Covered by point 5 and 1 (64 hits - no need to hit Chakra point)

Point 16> Shanringan - Useless
Zabuza say something like that before, if Shanringan could not see the target, it won't able to read the move / mind / anything, that why Zabuza use mist to 'blind' Kakashi. So if Sasuke could not see Neji (let say by smoke bomb), sasuke's shanringan will be almost usless (besides use chidori). But Neji has Byakugan, which allow him to see even in smoke or so. I don't think Sasuke could block 64 hits without Shanringan (or just eye).

Point 17> Blood Seal Lv 2
If "Final blast" is the first move in the battle. If Sasuke so unlucky, he blocks 64 hits with his arm and get damage, won't able to use chidori, no matter how much Chikara he has, it will become useless. (Even i assume sasuke block 64 hits, but very high chance it happened, right?)

Point 18>Naruto Hit Neji from ground at ep62
I believe Ninja should 2 (at least 1) step ahead of your enemy (they always say in Ninja Academic), that is what Naruto did in ep62. When did Neji from 'Genius' become 'idiots' level ninja?
(out of topic, last post)

Point 21>Chidori - work?
It doesn't matter 3x or 2x Sasuke could use, the more important is how he use. Since Sasuke has limited time to chidori, so he won't waste it in kaiten (may be he will in anime since people want to see) or just random use (he kind of did when vs Naruto). If Kakashi and Itachi could stop Chidori so easy, why can't Neji? And what if Sasuke get damage in his arm from 64 hits? (ok, too much 'if')
Sasuke is not stupid, to make sure he won't waste Chakra, he will make sure Neji won't able to dodge it. Just like Sasuke Vs Naruto, Sasuke need to immobile Neji/Naruto first.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
When do ninjas leave openings though? Usually right after they miss an attack....
In ep127-128 28m50s, Sasuke wide open for Naruto attack ^_^
By the way, when did Tenten or anyone say "Neji is defence type, not offence"? (I just want to know)

New point:
22>"sharingan-controlled shuriken blades"
OK.. Shuriken Blades... the "shadow windmill", the same thing in ep8, right?
i> It is big + heavy, which need to carry with back-pack (see ep 8)or so... If Sasuke really carrys it, it will decrease Sasuke reaction speed.
ii> It is not a standard eq., normal Ninjas, besides in mission, they won't carry it (he did not use when in exam or vs naruto)!
iii> Even if Sasuke carry and use it on Neji, Neji can dodge it, block it, or even catch it (Since he has 360 vision, and can see which one and where the real blades is).
iv> I think no one will carry 2 set of blade, right? So, if Sasuke use once and block/lose the blade, no more...
v> Sasuk need to use Sharingan to use, right? So, if he could not see (like in smoke), it won't work.
vi> You think Neji is stupid, give time to Sasuke to use it? (unluckily, Yes. In anime world, player always wait for another player to attack)

EDIT
I did not see "sharingan-controlled shuriken blades" in anime (that all i watch), please tell me which ep it appear, and please correct me if i say anything wrong.

By the way, Jadugar, thanks for your "I like his enthusiasm.", but please also be nice to others as well... In this thread, we may enemy, but next thread, we may be allias... We are all Naruto fans, right?

Jadugar

Wed, 10-12-2005, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by: vasco
I did not see it in anime (that all i watch), please tell me which ep it appear, and please correct me if i say anything wrong

Episode 30 : Revive, Sharingan! Finish Move - Fire Element, Dragon Fire Technique!

You should have asked someone else who has watched it recenlty. I think you know him.

Originally posted by: Strider
Episode 30: Revive Sharingan!

.. I became a Sharingan fanboy for the first two minutes. When Sasuke was watching Orochimaru move, and then Orochimaru sped up and became very blurred out with his quick movements, and Sasuke was saying, "I can see .. I can see!" - coupled with Strong and Strike. Man, classic moment.

Sasuke ties Orochimaru to the tree with the help of Sharingan-Controlled Triple Windmill Blades.

Originally posted by: vasco
In this thread, we may enemy, but next thread, we may be allias... We are all Naruto fans, right?

You think Strider and I are enemies. No, we are rivals in this thread but outside this threads were are friends.
As for you being my ally, I will think about it. Done, the answer is No. Just kiddingi/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Do all of us a favor and stop double posting. Just edit your last one or wait for someone else to post. Thanx.

I am counting on you to keep this thread alive.

Assertn

Wed, 10-12-2005, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by: vasco
Point 5> 64 hit damage (64 hit only block ckakra, no internal organs damage)
Lee: "So, if your ckakra circulatory system is attacked, you will take damage to your internal organs, too"
By the way, Neji don't want to kill everyone in the exam (actually he does at the end), there is no reason make Hinata or Naruto completely die, right. I think 64 hits can be fatal if Neji wish... Next...
Prove: ep46 19m28s
You missed my the point I was making the last time you said this. At least Strider knew what I was talking about. The 64 HOH doesn't inflict damage on the organs, it's SOLE purpose is to immobolize the enemy by blocking all their chakra. Don't compare it with his match against Hinata either....he didn't use 64 HOH on her (I dont know if he even KNEW how to perform it during the prelims either)

Point 9> Speed - Neji
Acutally, I don't need to response to this since Jaredster provided the URL of Neji and Sasuke, but I like to arg, so I tell you my points
If Lee could beat Neji just by dropping the weight, Lee did it for long time! That mean Lee still could not win Neji by dropping weight. And Sasuke (actually no one) won't able to caught up with Lee when he open 5 gate (may be Haku?).
As I said before. Speed isn't the only counter to speed. Just because Neji can still fight lee without his weights doesn't mean that Neji is as fast as lee without his weights. I'd ignore the URL. Why? Because ou've got the range of speed from Chouji to Gai covered in only 5 units. Terribly inaccurate.

Point 10> Speed - Sasuke
But most of the time, Sasuke are in sick bed, how can he train his stamina? (by doing...? Hentai!) Next...
I'm pretty sure a few months passed by between the konoha invasion and meeting up with itachi. But that's really not important. I mainly go by the fact that we've never seen stamina be an issue for him anymore.

Point 11>close combat skill - Neji
"Hyuuga style" is combat skill, which give you good move
"Level 2 Curse Seal" only give you power, will not give you good move.
For example... Chidori (as curse seal) is powerful, but Kakashi and Itachi (as "Hyuuga style") could take care it easily
Regular punch + level 2 curse seal > good taijutsu

Point 15> It hurts - even just one hit, not 64 hits
Covered by point 5 and 1 (64 hits - no need to hit Chakra point)
I can visualize the quote you're taking that from: Gai during the prelims. However the 64HOH was never introduced during the prelims. Something must be wrong with your quote recitation o.O

Point 16> Shanringan - Useless
Zabuza say something like that before, if Shanringan could not see the target, it won't able to read the move / mind / anything, that why Zabuza use mist to 'blind' Kakashi. So if Sasuke could not see Neji (let say by smoke bomb), sasuke's shanringan will be almost usless (besides use chidori). But Neji has Byakugan, which allow him to see even in smoke or so. I don't think Sasuke could block 64 hits without Shanringan (or just eye).
Awesome, a what-if scenario. Neji doesn't use smoke bombs...i'd be surprised if he ever will. Neji still isnt very offensive, so it wouldn't fit his fighting style to do so anyway.

Point 18>Naruto Hit Neji from ground at ep62
I believe Ninja should 2 (at least 1) step ahead of your enemy (they always say in Ninja Academic), that is what Naruto did in ep62. When did Neji from 'Genius' become 'idiots' level ninja?
(out of topic, last post)
What point are you trying to make?

Point 21>Chidori - work?
It doesn't matter 3x or 2x Sasuke could use, the more important is how he use. Since Sasuke has limited time to chidori, so he won't waste it in kaiten (may be he will in anime since people want to see) or just random use (he kind of did when vs Naruto). If Kakashi and Itachi could stop Chidori so easy, why can't Neji? And what if Sasuke get damage in his arm from 64 hits? (ok, too much 'if')
Sasuke is not stupid, to make sure he won't waste Chakra, he will make sure Neji won't able to dodge it. Just like Sasuke Vs Naruto, Sasuke need to immobile Neji/Naruto first.
Sharingan works differently than Byakugan does. That's why kakashi and itachi could stop it while neji couldn't. Neji can't subconsciously break down, interpret, and predict jutsus as they are performed, like the sharingan allows uchihas to, he can only see it as it approaches him.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
When do ninjas leave openings though? Usually right after they miss an attack....
In ep127-128 28m50s, Sasuke wide open for Naruto attack ^_^
By the way, when did Tenten or anyone say "Neji is defence type, not offence"? (I just want to know)
You call that an "opening"? I call that "Sasuke being cocky and not even seeing naruto as an opponent worth looking at"
Tenten says that when Neji first uses the kaiten in the main matches, i think.

vasco

Wed, 10-12-2005, 02:38 PM

Thanks for the ep for "sharingan-controlled shuriken blades" , response later (do i need to? since no one response to my that part of post)

Neji still isnt very offensive, so it wouldn't fit his fighting style to do so anyway.[/quote]
If so, then why Neji run away from Kidoumaru's arrrow attack?
Neji will do the things what ever is necessary!

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Point 18>Naruto Hit Neji from ground at ep62
What point are you trying to make?
Neji become stupid at there, becuase Naruto do 2 steps ahead of him and punch him. If Neji did not act cool, and make sure he lose (and the story not require Neji lose), I don't think Neji will lose.
(out of topic, out of topic.... >.< let stop discuss it)

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Sharingan works differently than Byakugan does. That's why kakashi and itachi could stop it while neji couldn't. Neji can't subconsciously break down, interpret, and predict jutsus as they are performed, like the sharingan allows uchihas to, he can only see it as it approaches him.
OK, then what about Neji use "Hyuuga style" to catch his arm? same result... it is not important how to stop chidori, the more important is chidori can be stop (and not so hard to stop).

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
You call that an "opening"? I call that "Sasuke being cocky and not even seeing naruto as an opponent worth looking at"
An opening is opening... as long as you do not block and eat direct damage, it is an opening, no matter what you are thinking (let him hit you or not). And your statement is : "When do ninjas leave openings though?", that why i responsed, that all. (nothing offence to Sasuke)

By the way, i still did not find tenten say Neji is defence type after Kaiten... she just experience how it work, and say it is his absolute defence. could you tell me which min/s at in which ep (the first time Neji use kaiten is ep 61, 4m35s), so i could know it, thanks

Assertn

Wed, 10-12-2005, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Sharingan works differently than Byakugan does. That's why kakashi and itachi could stop it while neji couldn't. Neji can't subconsciously break down, interpret, and predict jutsus as they are performed, like the sharingan allows uchihas to, he can only see it as it approaches him.
OK, then what about Neji use "Hyuuga style" to catch his arm? same result... it is not important how to stop chidori, the more important is chidori can be stop (and not so hard to stop).
what exactly does it mean to use "hyuuga style" to catch an arm? I still think sasuke's sharingan would give him a better chance at reacting to anything neji does than neji's byakugan reacting to the chidori.

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
You call that an "opening"? I call that "Sasuke being cocky and not even seeing naruto as an opponent worth looking at"
An opening is opening... as long as you do not block and eat direct damage, it is an opening, no matter what you are thinking (let him hit you or not). And your statement is : "When do ninjas leave openings though?", that why i responsed, that all. (nothing offence to Sasuke)
But it wasn't even a battle at that point. It was sasuke walking away not seeing naruto as any sort of threat. You might as well say "ninja X left an opening when he was sleeping in his bedroom 3 stories high in an apt complex in his home village." Ninjas are only alert when they have a reason to feel alert.

By the way, i still did not find tenten say Neji is defence type after Kaiten... she just experience how it work, and say it is his absolute defence. could you tell me which min/s at in which ep (the first time Neji use kaiten is ep 61, 4m35s), so i could know it, thanks Maybe it was before the kaiten, when naruto first lunged at neji during the match. I don't keep the older episodes on my harddrive, so I can't give you exact ep#/time.

Strider

Wed, 10-12-2005, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
rightfully?

Pretty much.

I didn't stutter. Or since this is on the 'net, I didn't fat-finger it.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
Some of Vasco's posts have been ridiculed by everyone in this thread and even you. Some of the stuff he says doesnt make any sense but I like his enthusiasm.

We can't deny him of that. I said the same thing in one of my much earlier posts.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
You want "iMUSTbeTHEdevil"'s vote counted. Page him, pm him and ask him to write more than two sentences on Neji. Then I will reconsider his vote.

I'm too lazy to PM him. Hopefully, he'll come in this thread and see this and do what you're asking.

However, I must ask if you're enforcing such rules, where all voters must provide a minimum requirement of text within the replies, is this going to apply to all previous voters, or is there a Grandfather Clause in effect? I ask this because then a number of votes are in question, and then this really all goes to hell.

A few that come to mind, is Shuurai .. the Zabuza kid, and even Terra.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
Let me remind you again. MY THREAD, MY RULES

As for the update score I have been doing it perfectly fine and with honesty. There is no need for you to put updated score at the end you your post. That privilege is only for me and only me (owner). I think you can be pretty sure that I will not pull a fast one on you but my decision will be final on the scoring thing and I have discarded that n00b's (iMUSTnrSTUPID) vote. My updated score after one or two pages is more than enough and I also have been editing the first page (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=16315&enterthrea d=y) of this thread which shows the latest votes and scores.

So refrain from putting updated score in your posts. Everyone knows where they stand if they bother to come and check. Although you can put a reminder in your post that includes latest votes.

Touchy, touchy ..

First the guy thanks me for being the initial one to post a scoreboard and regularly do so for the people making their votes and board voices heard, now the guy's putting trademarks and hitting me with copyright infringement suits. Get outta' here ..

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
@Strider: I haven't read the manga version of episode 133. Although I guessed the fight might have been "spiced up" a bit, I wasn't aware that it was radically different.

You should read the manga chapter. I believe it is something like Chapter 218, or around that area.

In the anime episode, in comparison to the manga, it was dramatically changed. However, it was all a VAST improvement, in the additions they placed in the episode.

So you have an idea .. in the manga, after Naruto stated that he is Sasuke's friend, and will break the bones in his arms and legs if necessary, Naruto charged in. Similar to the episode, yes. After a quick exchange of Naruto smashing in Sasuke's face, and getting smacked around underwater, Sasuke leaped out and onto the nearby cliffside. He tied his forehead protector on, and as he got into stance, the third Sharingan comma appeared. He egged Naruto to attack, after saying something like, ".. Then, I shall break those bonds!" ("Bonds" was actually the name of the Manga Chapter)

Naruto attacked. Sasuke easily evaded. With Naruto continuously attacking, Sasuke realized he could see Naruto's next move. He ruined Naruto's face with a fierce punch, that caused Naruto to fall off the cliffside and into the water. Naruto quickly jumped out of the water to retaliate, but Sasuke countered with a rising kick that landed square in his jaw. This put Naruto back into the water, where the Fox laughed at him and bestowed him with some of its power. One-Tail Naruto.

One-Tail hit Sasuke once or twice. Sasuke countered with a Katon: Goukyaku no Jutsu, but Naruto was protected by the Fox's chakra. Naruto then grabbed Sasuke, with the elongation of the Kyuubi's arm, and smashed Sasuke into the rock. Sasuke then laughed, as the seal's activation was occurring. You know the rest.

That is all that happened. There was literally an exchange of maybe twelve hits, at the very most, within the manga. The episode was a much better dramatization and incorporation of the manga.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
You think Strider and I are enemies. No, we are rivals in this thread but outside this threads were are friends.

Word.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
Do all of us a favor and stop double posting. Just edit your last one or wait for someone else to post. Thanx.

Seriously.

It's getting irritating.

@ Assertn: I agree with the majority of your counter-points, except a very few things here and there I am too tired to address. I just thought I'd say that, as I never thought I'd see the day. Heh.

Jadugar

Wed, 10-12-2005, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
I'm too lazy to PM him. Hopefully, he'll come in this thread and see this and do what you're asking.

The way he is posting in every thread I am sure he will be back.

Terra's vote counts.

About the iMUSTbeTHEdevil'vote, I havent discarded it. Its just on standby. I just want him to be the part of the discusssion. It would have been a lot easier for me to make a poll for this thread but then we wouldnt had this madness which is called Sasuke vs Neji. I have to do certain things to make this thread alive. It wouldnt be any fun if we didnt had any disagreements.

I certainly cant take the credit for this thread. You intense interaction has made it possible, also the people who have been posting in here. I am sorry if I did use some harsh words in my earlier post.

Originally posted by: Strider
@ Assertn: I agree with the majority of your counter-points, except a very few things here and there I am too tired to address. I just thought I'd say that, as I never thought I'd see the day. Heh.

Ditto. I have had sleepless nights because of this thread. Its taken most of my spare time in the last 2 /3 weeks.

Dont worry I have another great idea which has yet to materialise. I will certainly let you know.

Now cheer upi/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Wed, 10-12-2005, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
[quote]
Originally posted by: Strider
I'm too lazy to PM him. Hopefully, he'll come in this thread and see this and do what you're asking.

The way he is posting in every thread I am sure he will be back.

Terra's vote counts.

About the iMUSTbeTHEdevil'vote, I havent discarded it. Its just on standby. I just want him to be the part of the discusssion. It would have been a lot easier for me to make a poll for this thread but then we wouldnt had this madness which is called Sasuke vs Neji. I have to do certain things to make this thread alive. It wouldnt be any fun if we didnt had any disagreements.

SO what do you want me to say?

I think that Neji would win because he has better Chakra control. And if he landed his 128 strikes of divinity he would stop Sasuke's Chakra flow making him useless. So until we find out if Sasuke can gather excess chakra just from the cursed seal. I am going with Neji.

i/expressions/devil.gif

Strider

Thu, 10-13-2005, 11:01 AM

I do not think we're factoring in anything that was added to the animated series, that was not within the manga. However, your basic point should be understood that, you're saying if Sasuke is struck by any of the Hakke moves, his chakra's done for.

I agree with such. I still don't think Sasuke would be able to overcome that deficiency, if he was struck.

Terracosmo

Thu, 10-13-2005, 11:14 AM

I didn't even know there was a poll involved. Neji would pwn Sasuke to the ground. I don't really care if that counts as a working vote or not :S

Jadugar

Thu, 10-13-2005, 01:07 PM

Latest vote :

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 16
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein ]

NEJI : 17
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, Elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil ]

RedX1z

Thu, 10-13-2005, 02:07 PM

no matter how i think about it, i can't picture a scenario where sasuke would win, all i see is, neji would dodge everything sasuke throws then as soon as sasuke's chakra hits 0..he's fucked. i go with neji.(don't get me wrong, sasuke is still number 1 to me.)

Strider

Thu, 10-13-2005, 04:11 PM

Up by the deuces!

@ Jad': kAi, Azn' and your pal, Jared', never voted either. They posted, but never spoke their piece in full.

@ Terra: Your vote counts everywhere. Drag PSJ in here.

Assertn

Thu, 10-13-2005, 04:32 PM

Is it common practice for neji enthusiasts to support their stance using as little supporting detail as possible? At least some of them spent the extra effort of copy/pasting arguments that other neji enthusiasts made i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

From all the debating back and forth....I'd say the whole thing goes down to two things...
1) Whether or not chidori can pierce kaiten
2) Whether or not 64 HOH can contain sasuke's lv2 curse seal chakra

I can imagine scenarios where kishimoto can direct the battle either way using those two conditions.

But for people saying that Neji should win against ANY close-range opponent that doesnt move as fast as lee + 5 gates....
who would win in this match: Neji vs Tsunade?

Strider

Thu, 10-13-2005, 04:55 PM

Tsunade would win. She is in another class, leagues above Neji. And, Tsunade has been shown to be the melee fighter of the Sannin. However, all of them are well versed in all realms of being a ninja, especially Tsunade having practiced and nearly mastering medical ninjutsu. She reads a lot, as well. She is indefinitely well versed in all the Konoha clans, trademarks, abilities and secret arts, I'm sure.

Although, I'd put money on Hizashi taking her out, if he so chose to. Not easily, but he'd get the job done.

Assertn

Thu, 10-13-2005, 05:00 PM

but how? What would tsunade do that neji can't kaiten? Would she be capable of avoiding his 64HOH if she got too close? If she DID get 64HOHed, then medic ninja or not, she can't do anything about it without having access to her own chakra

Jadugar

Thu, 10-13-2005, 05:23 PM

@ Terra : You were the ninth person to vote in this thread. Even though you only said one word, Neji, your vote counted and it has been in the final score for ages. My only wish was that you would have visited this thread more often because I would like you to pwn Sasuke and Me, in that order.i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

@ Strider : You dont hear me complaining about Shinda and Dark Maginn

I was afriad of bunch of noobs voting in this thread and it has begun.

Latest vote :

UltxDarkRedX1

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 16
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein ]

NEJI : 18
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, Elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedX1 ]

NOTE : Notice the Terra's highlighted vote.

Strider

Thu, 10-13-2005, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
but how? What would tsunade do that neji can't kaiten? Would she be capable of avoiding his 64HOH if she got too close? If she DID get 64HOHed, then medic ninja or not, she can't do anything about it without having access to her own chakra

Neji cannot spin indefinitely. She can continuously heave massive boulders, a la Jiroubo, at Neji. She can summon countless things. Destroy the ground, to disrupt Neji's footing for his Kaiten.

And, their levels for chakra capacity to begin with are on separate levels.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
@ Strider : You dont hear me complaining about Shinda and Dark Maginn

Aww. Don't go getting all sensitive on me.

I wasn't getting on your case. I was simply curious as to how you were doing this. I also stated that they were the few that came to mind, who merely said one word or one liners, "My vote is .." Not that they were the only ones.

You have every right to complain about them. Your thread, your rules, remember? I just wanted to be clear on them so that we won't have to go through a repeat of them. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

You know. Suffer now, spare us later. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Originally posted by: Jadugar
NOTE : Notice the Terra's highlighted vote.

Why?

I'm missing the point / purpose of the bold names.

Color me stupid. I'm just visiting, though ..

The Heretic Azazel

Thu, 10-13-2005, 05:45 PM

Plus, if Neji is close enough to go Jyuuken on Tsunade, she's in striking distance and Neji would probably be squashed like a bug.

Jadugar

Thu, 10-13-2005, 05:54 PM

Are we talking about Neji and Tsunade now.

If we are all tired of talking about Sasuke vs Neji then to make it interesting I can make it two men team.

Two people on each side. Sasuke and Tsunade on one side and Neji and whatever person Strider wants to pick.

Or maybe I can replace Tsunade with someone else.

@ Strider : How about it. No picking and choosing yet though.

vasco

Thu, 10-13-2005, 09:16 PM

Neji vs Tsunade, kind of out of topic, but interested...
Neji and Tsunade, my vote is ... both die... why? base on who get hit first
If Neji hit Tsunade first with Jyuuken, Tsunade could die... The same goes to Neji since Tsunade has monster strength (no more post on Neji vs Tsunade)

EDIT

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
From all the debating back and forth....I'd say the whole thing goes down to two things...
1) Whether or not chidori can pierce kaiten
2) Whether or not 64 HOH can contain sasuke's lv2 curse seal chakra
1> Sasuke will waste chidori on kaiten? and if Chidori really can break kaiten, the chakra in Kaiten will change the direction of Chidori (since Kaiten is spliting), so forget about "use chidori break kaiten", it never work.
2>Let me think about it, ok, answer right now...
By the way, do you know 64 HOH is totally 126 hits? 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 = 126, then 128 HOH will be... ( 2 + 4 + 8 +16 + 32 + 64 + 128 ...) 254 hits... if Sasuke get hit by 64 HOH (or 126 hits), can he stand? (just by the finger damage, not the chakra damage)... OK a little bit off question's topic, give me some time to solve your 2nd arg "Whether or not 64 HOH can contain sasuke's lv2 curse seal chakra"

EDIT
did not see the 'finger' damage from 64 hits? ep116-117 3m10s, Neji use 64 hits hit Kidoumaru, and break (make a whole to) the think tree... (just by the finger power... cool...)

Assertn

Fri, 10-14-2005, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by: vasco
Neji vs Tsunade, kind of out of topic, but interested...
Neji and Tsunade, my vote is ... both die... why? base on who get hit first
If Neji hit Tsunade first with Jyuuken, Tsunade could die... The same goes to Neji since Tsunade has monster strength (no more post on Neji vs Tsunade)

EDIT

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
From all the debating back and forth....I'd say the whole thing goes down to two things...
1) Whether or not chidori can pierce kaiten
2) Whether or not 64 HOH can contain sasuke's lv2 curse seal chakra
1> Sasuke will waste chidori on kaiten? and if Chidori really can break kaiten, the chakra in Kaiten will change the direction of Chidori (since Kaiten is spliting), so forget about "use chidori break kaiten", it never work.
2>Let me think about it, ok, answer right now...
By the way, do you know 64 HOH is totally 126 hits? 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 = 126, then 128 HOH will be... ( 2 + 4 + 8 +16 + 32 + 64 + 128 ...) 254 hits... if Sasuke get hit by 64 HOH (or 126 hits), can he stand? (just by the finger damage, not the chakra damage)... OK a little bit off question's topic, give me some time to solve your 2nd arg "Whether or not 64 HOH can contain sasuke's lv2 curse seal chakra"

EDIT
did not see the 'finger' damage from 64 hits? ep116-117 3m10s, Neji use 64 hits hit Kidoumaru, and break (make a whole to) the think tree... (just by the finger power... cool...)

dude....don't argue the points that ive settled as being the open-ended part of the debate. You're just beating a dead horse.

What do you mean change the direction of chidori? As in, bend sasuke's arm to chidori himself? wtf...
and no, 64 HOH is 64 hits.....when he is calling out the numbers, he is calling out the total, not how many each time.

XanBcoo

Fri, 10-14-2005, 02:11 AM

and no, 64 HOH is 64 hits.....when he is calling out the numbers, he is calling out the total, not how many each time.

True words.

Neji and Tsunade, my vote is ... both die... why? base on who get hit first
I laugh heartily at how you suggest a Hokage could be beaten by Neji. Watch me.

HAR HAR HAR! Let's not discuss the details of a possible fight, but Tsunade is a caliber far above that of Neji. There wouldn't be much of a contest.

Neji cannot spin indefinitely. She can continuously heave massive boulders, a la Jiroubo, at Neji. She can summon countless things. Destroy the ground, to disrupt Neji's footing for his Kaiten.

And, their levels for chakra capacity to begin with are on separate levels.
I see no reason why Sasuke could not do the exact same things, if not very similar things, to screw up Neji in the methods you just mentioned using the power of the Curse Seal + his own skill. I find it particularly funny that you bring up Chakra capacity as a factor - as the "Chakra capacity" of the curse seal gives Sasuke a major edge in this fight. I'm not suggesting he is as powerful as a Hokage though...just more than enough to beat Neji.

Edort4

Fri, 10-14-2005, 08:09 AM

am i the only 1 that thinks that hake is dumb? I mean your getting hit by a guy that is not very strong with 2 fingers on your shoulder... or your arm, yeah i know that if you're hit the 64 or 128 times you are almost dead but what prevents ppl from taking a kunai, and while you're hit the 12 time, make it go through neji eyes? i mean is like having a chidori without the sharingan... very powerful but you are just going head on, hitting with 2 fingers that doesnt knockdown any1. Byakugan doesnt give slowmotion camera so if your opponent is just enduring the first 10 hits could then fuck you up with anything he wants because you're too busy hitting him with your fingers! To aim for a tenketsu(whatever its called) must take some concentration, more than enough to get counterattacked.

Neji: You are inside my divination range!! hahaha!
Enemy: uhh *starts making seals*
Neji: here i go on my frontal attack without any great speed and my finger massive damage hits!
Enemy: Katon Ryuuka no Jutsu!
Neji: 2 hits! ....
Neji ashes:uhmmm... bbq, not bad.

Just rationalizating his move, no offense.

vasco

Fri, 10-14-2005, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
What do you mean change the direction of chidori? As in, bend sasuke's arm to chidori himself? wtf...
and no, 64 HOH is 64 hits.....when he is calling out the numbers, he is calling out the total, not how many each time.

About chidori vs kaiten

Try to think this. You drop a stone in the fast moving river, the stone will drop a few steps away to downstream (by the water flow). no matter how big of the rock, as long as the river flow fast enough, the rock will follow the river flow and drop a few steps away.
The same go to chidori vs kaiten, Kaiten is fast spliting (moving) chakra (water), Chidori with Sasuke (stone) crash into kaiten (river), (assume) even if it did not band off as normal and go inside of kaiten, Chidori and sasuke will follow the chakra (kaiten spliting) movement and change direction.

About 64 hoh

Let see the battle between Neji and Naruto: ep61 7m55s
Hakke two strikes! (2 hits, 1 left 1 right, right?)
four strikes! (we still can see 4 hit from Neji)
Eight strikes! (I try to count, but doesn't seem right in anime)
Sixteen strikes!
Thirty-two strikes! (just see a lot of chakra hiting Naruto)
Sixty-four strikes! (Naruto is flying)

So, Neji start from 2, then double the hit everytime unit 64
2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 = 126 hits

he is really calling out the numbers, not calling out the total
(otherwise, we won't see four hits at second strikes so clearly, and the hit will be 2 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32)
(Thank you!)

Extra
Kabuto almost kill Tsunade by damage internal organs, right? so do Neji could do

EDIT

Originally posted by: Edort4
am i the only 1 that thinks that hake is dumb? .....
May be when 64 hits hit the body, the body will have 'reflection' (try this: you will close your eye automatic if you clap your hand in front of your eyes.). So, if you form a seal, it will cancel by the body reflection, i guess... and if you get direct hit by 64 hits (even just begining), your chakra flow may have problem already. Could you still mold your chakra and use fireball, is base on your luck.

Strider

Fri, 10-14-2005, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
If we are all tired of talking about Sasuke vs Neji then to make it interesting I can make it two men team.

Two people on each side. Sasuke and Tsunade on one side and Neji and whatever person Strider wants to pick.

Or maybe I can replace Tsunade with someone else.

@ Strider : How about it. No picking and choosing yet though.

I am not tired of Neji v. Sasuke. I will not be done with this thread until I convert Assertn and Xan'.

As for two man teams? 'Eh, not my cup of tea. But, if those that frequent this thread see it as a good idea, I'll definitely roll with it.

Not sure who I would team up with Neji. Rock Lee and Neji are my favorite characters ..

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

and no, 64 HOH is 64 hits.....when he is calling out the numbers, he is calling out the total, not how many each time.

True words.

I don't know.

He is clearly striking a lot more points than simply sixty-four. Watch all the episodes where he's actually doing it. This is easily seen. He simply says, "I have shut down your 64 tenketsu (that regulate control over chakra) .."

It's possible that to shut down those primary tenketsu, the pathways to them, and all other surrounding tenketsu must be blocked.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
I see no reason why Sasuke could not do the exact same things, if not very similar things, to screw up Neji in the methods you just mentioned using the power of the Curse Seal + his own skill. I find it particularly funny that you bring up Chakra capacity as a factor - as the "Chakra capacity" of the curse seal gives Sasuke a major edge in this fight. I'm not suggesting he is as powerful as a Hokage though...just more than enough to beat Neji.

Oh, c'mon.

Sasuke does not have the strength of Tsunade. The battle experience. Or the chakra capacity.

The Curse Seal gives him a definitive power boost. Not another whole chakra pool. He isn't Naruto.

Also, the Curse Seal gives him this power boost to amplify his Katon moves that will really disrupt Neji's Kaiten? Bzzzzzt, try again.

Also, not a single time in all of my posts within this thread have I denied the Curse Seal being a major and the sole factor for Sasuke's advantage. However, for the millionth time, Neji would finally understand he'd be unable to defeat him by attacking, similar to his situation with Kidoumaru, and await Sasuke to come in with his signature Chidori, and go for the vital finishing blow. The end, for both of them.

In regards to Tsunade. Her chakra capacity is a factor. She can do so much and the level of her skills are oustandingly greater than any of the Genin. For Neji to win, he has to hit her with 64 Hands of Hakke - which will eliminate the access of her Chakra. Neji cannot one-hit kill Tsunade. She's a medical specialist. Similar to her bout with Orochimaru and Kabuto. If Neji happens to land a Jyuuken strike to a vital spot, or somewhere fatal, she will perform her necessary hand seals (which I'm sure are performed much faster than Genin level) and heal herself. It's not a winning battle for Neji. The gap between their levels are much too great. It's like Sasuke and Itachi. He'll always be the foolish little brother ..

Assertn

Fri, 10-14-2005, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by: vasco

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
What do you mean change the direction of chidori? As in, bend sasuke's arm to chidori himself? wtf...
and no, 64 HOH is 64 hits.....when he is calling out the numbers, he is calling out the total, not how many each time.

About chidori vs kaiten

Try to think this. You drop a stone in the fast moving river, the stone will drop a few steps away to downstream (by the water flow). no matter how big of the rock, as long as the river flow fast enough, the rock will follow the river flow and drop a few steps away.
The same go to chidori vs kaiten, Kaiten is fast spliting (moving) chakra (water), Chidori with Sasuke (stone) crash into kaiten (river), (assume) even if it did not band off as normal and go inside of kaiten, Chidori and sasuke will follow the chakra (kaiten spliting) movement and change direction.

About 64 hoh

Let see the battle between Neji and Naruto: ep61 7m55s
Hakke two strikes! (2 hits, 1 left 1 right, right?)
four strikes! (we still can see 4 hit from Neji)
Eight strikes! (I try to count, but doesn't seem right in anime)
Sixteen strikes!
Thirty-two strikes! (just see a lot of chakra hiting Naruto)
Sixty-four strikes! (Naruto is flying)

So, Neji start from 2, then double the hit everytime unit 64
2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 = 126 hits

he is really calling out the numbers, not calling out the total
(otherwise, we won't see four hits at second strikes so clearly, and the hit will be 2 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32)
(Thank you!)

Extra
Kabuto almost kill Tsunade by damage internal organs, right? so do Neji could do

Yeah, i get your analogy with the whole spinning causing things to hit it to be pulled through a current of some sort. But we never really see that happen with the kaiten. Anytime a shuriken hits it, it bounces right back. Anytime 5 narutos jump into it, they all go flying back the same angle that they approached it. If you go up to a moderately-fast moving shallow stream and try to punch through it to the soil below, you can easily bypass the current with any amount of effort. The chidori vs kaiten is still open-ended.

64 hands of hakke.....how do you know the 2 extra in the second set of pokes wasnt residual?
If you play Naruto 2 or 3 for gamecube, try performing the 64 HOH on someone. You'll get a 64 hit combo, not a 128 combo i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

So basically you're saying neji could beat tsunade.......hmm....good to know

XanBcoo

Fri, 10-14-2005, 12:13 PM

Sasuke does not have the strength of Tsunade. The battle experience. Or the chakra capacity.
Well no shit man, I get that. I even stated it in the last sentence of my post i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

The Curse Seal gives him a definitive power boost. Not another whole chakra pool. He isn't Naruto
Quoted this to finish my point from the first quote. The power boost Sasuke gets from the Curse Seal is about equal to that of Kyuubi-Naruto. The methods you suggested could be similarly carried out by Sasuke using that power. It doesn't matter if it's Hokage-power, it's still enough to give him a good advantage. He could wait out the Kaiten, or disrupt it's execution in any number of ways. He has increased strength, speed, and chakra capacity.

However, for the millionth time, Neji would finally understand he'd be unable to defeat him by attacking, similar to his situation with Kidoumaru, and await Sasuke to come in with his signature Chidori, and go for the vital finishing blow. The end, for both of them.

I see a similar situation, but I still think Sasuke would have the advantage.

About 64HOH, I think you and vasco are right about the number of hits.

vasco

Fri, 10-14-2005, 01:35 PM

First, i did not play Naruto game. About the count in game, may be the game makers (actually is programmers) make mistake since they may not Naruto fans. They see 64HOH, so they think it is only 64 hits. and in order to make 64 hits, Neji need to hit 2 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32. not too make sence. We could not count the hit really in Manga (actually i did not read, so i don't know did they actually draw all hits, otherwise, you can count there), but in anime, we can clearly to see first (2 hits) and second (4 hits) strikes, and we can see/hear third strikes is about 8 hits as well... By the way, 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 = 126 only, not 128 hits . And i just want to say the damage from his finger (strong enough to break tree), that all... the 64 HOH count just for fun!

About Kaiten and Chidori...
If chidori cannot pass kaiten, then sasuke will fly away just like thowing knife.
if chidori can pass kaiten, then sasuke will has no problem to pass his arm (since chidori only cover the arm) in kaiten. But, sasuke still cannot hit Neji (arm in Kaiten but body not), which either mean Chidori not work on Kaiten, or sasuke body need to go inside kaiten area. If Sasuke body go inside Kaiten area (his body did not cover by chidori, will just like thowing knife), then his body will either follow the chakra flow and keep turning, or sasuke will bond out (like regular thowing knife)

extra
I forget Tsunade has "Ninpou Souzou Saisei"... But if we don't count that, Kabuto almost kill her (so Neji should able to do the same, I guess)

The Heretic Azazel

Fri, 10-14-2005, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by: vasco
First, i did not play Naruto game. About the count in game, may be the game makers (actually is programmers) make mistake since they may not Naruto fans. They see 64HOH, so they think it is only 64 hits. and in order to make 64 hits, Neji need to hit 2 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32. not too make sence. We could not count the hit really in Manga (actually i did not read, so i don't know did they actually draw all hits, otherwise, you can count there), but in anime, we can clearly to see first (2 hits) and second (4 hits) strikes, and we can see/hear third strikes is about 8 hits as well... By the way, 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 64 = 126 only, not 128 hits . And i just want to say the damage from his finger (strong enough to break tree), that all... the 64 HOH count just for fun!

You're full of shit.

Jurojin

Fri, 10-14-2005, 02:27 PM

Ok, easy way for Neji to win:

Neji and Sasuke face off, staring at each other, when Neji points behind Sasuke and says "It's Itachi, your brother!"

Sasuke falls for the oldest trick in the book, and turns around wildly in an attempt to find and kill his brother, allowing Neji to zip up and make Sasuke's heart go all explody.

Please tell me that SOME of you will find humor in it, and not take it as me being serious. >_>

vasco

Fri, 10-14-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
You're full of shit.

just Let me be nice and ask, which part of "You" is "full of shit"?

A> I did not play naruto game? (I am too poor to buy gamecube)
B> I said game makers mistaken? (I said may be only)
C> 64 HOH is 126 hits? (that is part of arg)
D> 64 HOH hit count for fun (I think it is fun, if you don't think so, you don't need to response)
E> Damage of 64 HOH? (I am saying the true, no personal opinion added)
F> Not in the quote? (I cannot help! and quote correctly)
G> About myself? (sorry, can't help. I am here, i won't get away because of you)
H> About yourself? (Sorry, can't help either)
I> About other people? (Then don't quote my writing)
J> About the Thread? (Then you make all people here are your enemy)
K> Just want to increase the post (Then you are really full of ...)

So, next time when you say "You're full of shit.", please give me/us a little bit more detail.

EDIT

Originally posted by: Jurojin
Ok, easy way for Neji to win:
Neji and Sasuke face off, staring at each other, when Neji points behind Sasuke and says "It's Itachi, your brother!"
Sasuke falls for the oldest trick in the book, and turns around wildly in an attempt to find and kill his brother, allowing Neji to zip up and make Sasuke's heart go all explody.

It is funny, at least I feel. So, if we say "Neji, Hiashi/Hizashi, your uncle/father", will it work? (My vote is still in Neji)
nothing offence, just for fun.

The Heretic Azazel

Fri, 10-14-2005, 03:53 PM

There are 64 hits total, that's why. When he says the number, it's the total number, not the number he did between announcing it.

Shinda

Fri, 10-14-2005, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: Jadugar
@ Strider : You dont hear me complaining about Shinda and Dark Maginn

Aww. Don't go getting all sensitive on me.

I wasn't getting on your case. I was simply curious as to how you were doing this. I also stated that they were the few that came to mind, who merely said one word or one liners, "My vote is .." Not that they were the only ones.

You have every right to complain about them. Your thread, your rules, remember? I just wanted to be clear on them so that we won't have to go through a repeat of them.

You know. Suffer now, spare us later.

i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif little off-topic but defending my point here; I did say why I voted neji
the point is, I can barely follow any of the arguments here, you guys go way too fast
so I just settle with reading once every while and not react

Strider

Fri, 10-14-2005, 04:09 PM

This isn't right.

Watch episode 61, please. Download it, or PM me if you need it.

When Neji performs the move for the first time, and every other subsequent time, he begins with "Hakke Nishou!" (Two strikes!). Directly following is "Yonshou!" (Four strikes!).

If you are saying that whenever he shouts, he is declaring the current total .. why does he perform four strikes to four separate points on Naruto? This is easily seen.

heero

Fri, 10-14-2005, 04:47 PM

so he's not calling out the total number? If he's just counting the hits "each" time he shouts then it will be way more than 64 hits wouldnt it?

elmojo

Fri, 10-14-2005, 04:48 PM

question: will this topic account for the abilities and skills both chars eventually show as the manga progresses?
id like to add some input if either shows something significant, im sure others will too

Jadugar

Fri, 10-14-2005, 05:56 PM

OH MY GOD.

THERE IS A BIG RIOT GOING ON AMONG NEJI FANS OVER THIS 64 HITS THEORY.

He loves me, he loves me not.

Its 64 hits, it not 64 hits.

He loves me, he loves me not.

I AM JUST LOVING THIS WHOLE SITUATION.

@ elmojo : Yes, stick around.

@ vasco : Dont let anybody get you down.

@ Shinda : I wasnt picking on you but its good to hear that you are still following this discussion. It even hard for me. I take a day off and this discussion goes 3/4 pages ahead.

The Heretic Azazel

Fri, 10-14-2005, 06:54 PM

Thanks for making me watch that, when Neji goes Hakke on Naruto he holds his hand up like yeah, I beat the brakes off your plothole reliant ass.

Anyway I can see where you're coming from but he was moving so quick you really can't tell, between four strikes and eight strikes. It's just ritual to say, but after the initial 2 strikes, Neji just goes berserk on Naruto, there's no pause except between 2 strikes and 4. Then he goes nuts.

I think Hakke is 64 strikes.. I mean, why else would they call it that?

And Jadugar, don't stir the pot and try to turn my people against me, even deep inside you know Neji would knock the lipstick off Cursed Seal level 2 Sasuke i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Naruto_RNG

Fri, 10-14-2005, 08:33 PM

i just want to say if neji ever had to fight tsunade he would lose. 2 reason. 1. the size of her breast makes it hard to concentrate. he'll be like should i fight or....... no no no she is granny.. but...... ah shit can't make up my mind. 2. again with the breast neji's 64 hits will never reach the fatal parts as it will get caught between those two melons. she can use those breast as a traping mechanism. dirty fight. it wouldn't be even fare. no guy can fight against those odds. susake may have a chance though, if he goes level 2 u know with his looks and shit. @ Jadugar i know your going to say something about this post but i couldn't help it. it had to come out.
back to the topic neji would beat susake's ass. i'm done.

Jadugar

Fri, 10-14-2005, 08:44 PM

@ Strider : 

You Disappoint me Strider. You call yourself a Neji fan. You dont even know his moves.

I think its time for you to turn into a Sasuke fan, Sharingan fanboy.

Explanation of Hakke Rokujuyon Sho (Divine Sixty-Four Strikes)/64 Hands of Hakke :

2 + 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 = 64

0r

2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 + 2 = 64

All strikes add upto to 64 hence the name, "divine 64 strikes".

Its a combo of 64 strikes. It begins with two heavy strikes, followed by two more, followed by four, followed by eight, followed by sixteen, followed by a dazzling thirty-two consecutive pinpoint-precision strikes.

There are 361 tenketsu in a human body so this jutsu closes 64 of them only.

Also its a short range attack and its theratically possible to dodge it.

@ Heretic Azazel : I am innocent.i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

@ Naruto_RNG : I was under the impression by Neji's fans that no one can beat him.

Naruto_RNG

Fri, 10-14-2005, 08:59 PM

@ Jadugar do u think susake can beat tsunade????

Jadugar

Fri, 10-14-2005, 09:08 PM

No.

Tsunade is one of the Sanins. Sasuke may be talented and has youth on his side but he has yet to reach her level. He is not that exprienced to beat her but never say never.

He is getting trained by a Sanin, Orochimaru. Maybe one day he will be poweful enough to beat Tsunade. He has to improve radically if he is beat Itachi.

Ban Kai

Fri, 10-14-2005, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
@ Strider : 

2 + 4 + 16 + 32 = 64

All strikes add upto to 64 hence the name, "divine 64 strikes".

you forgot 8 =P.

vasco

Fri, 10-14-2005, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
"when he is calling out the numbers, he is calling out the total"

64 is a factorial.

2 + 4 + 16 + 32 = 64

All strikes add upto to 64 hence the name, "divine 64 strikes".

2 + 4 + 16 + 32 = 54
you might use MS Windows' calc do the calculation (start > run > type in 'calc', work in most version of windows), if you use linux or unix, they have build in calculator as well, forget the command line, and so do Mac.
by the way, 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 = 62, still missing 2.

So, if anyone want to say "Neji is calling out the total", then please give me the correct hit in each strikes, otherwise, Neji got to calling out number the hits everytime he hit, not total. thank you

Jadugar

Fri, 10-14-2005, 09:36 PM

Post edited. Its fucking 5:00 am, let me go to sleep you morons.

Originally posted by: vasco
So, if anyone want to say "Neji is calling out the total", then please give me the correct hit in each strikes, otherwise, Neji got to calling out number the hits everytime he hit, not total. thank you

n00b lesson no. 64

Its

2 + 4 + 8 +16 + 32 + 2 = 64

I know what are you going to say. Where does the extra 2 hits come from.

Watch episode 61.

Neji hits Naruto :

2 hit (shuots 2 strikes), 4 hits (shouts 4 strikes), 8 hits (shouts 8 strikes), 16 strikes (shouts 16 strikes),
and then 32 hits (shouts 32 hits) = 62.

Then he shouts 64 strikes but only strikes two hits which = 2

The last time he hits Naruto there are only two strikes not mutiple even though he shouts 64 strikes he only layas two blows. Maybe they are final blows to close the combo and disrupt the chakra flow.

The last of the sixty-four strikes appears to be a blow with the full, open hand, rather than the fingertips of the index and middle fingers. The final blow pushes Naruto on the floor.

It all adds upto

64.

Yes, I am right.

@ Ban Kai : Like to hear your theory.i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

@ Vasco: Try using your calculator now.

NOTE : If someone has a better theory then i would like to hear it.

Edort4

Fri, 10-14-2005, 10:22 PM

I preffer to think that animators of naruto do as they please, cause kishimoto doesnt look over the anime, than believe that neji is nerd enough of not being able to tell the number of hits he is going to perform. He says 64 when he wants to say... 126?? thats a true genius no doubt.

Jadugar

Fri, 10-14-2005, 10:26 PM

The 64 strikes are hard to explain in manga version. Watch ep 61 again and you will agree with me.

aznroyale

Fri, 10-14-2005, 10:32 PM

i liked when Neji did 128

Assertn

Sat, 10-15-2005, 03:28 AM

gee.....how do you guys know the animators didnt mess up the 64 HOH and accidentally threw 4 strikes in the second set when that wasnt kishimoto's intent?
I'll stick with jadugar's explanation.....it makes perfect sense to me

is it just me....or does arguing with vasco feel like the equivalent of getting teeth pulled? i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Strider

Sat, 10-15-2005, 12:18 PM

Never had any teeth pulled.

Or argued with vasco.

I'll take your word for it, though. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

.. I'll stick with Jad's explanation until I can get home and watch the episode again. Hrmph.

XanBcoo

Sat, 10-15-2005, 01:09 PM

Jadugar. Genious ninja of math.

Jadugar

Sat, 10-15-2005, 01:41 PM

@ Assertn : I had one of my teeth pulled out. Believe me its nothing compare to arguing wuth vasco.

@ Vasco : Stop quoting me while I am in the middle of editing my post.

@ strider : Either my explanation or Neji is too stupid .

@ XanBcoo : Genius : no. Hard worker : yes.

@ Jadugar : Its been 20 days since I made this thread.

isso

Thu, 10-20-2005, 04:51 AM

NEJI..

vasco

Fri, 10-21-2005, 08:38 AM

Gone for a week, this thread die?

Strider

Fri, 10-21-2005, 11:06 AM

Jad' and I killed one another for Orochimaru's cause, a la filler garbage.

Xan' defected to Neji's side, and hasn't shown his face around these parts since.

And, Terra ate Assertn.

We were having a week long moment in silence.

You're all that's left, vasco ..

darkmetal505

Fri, 10-21-2005, 12:37 PM

or rather most people are tired of arguing over something we will never know (unless kishimoto puts them against each other)

Strider

Fri, 10-21-2005, 04:05 PM

Lies.

We all just finally agreed that Neji would win.

Plain as that, really. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

masamuneehs

Fri, 10-21-2005, 04:51 PM

Neji sucks. Haven't you seen the latest Naruto episodes? He gets owned by this totally crappy Mist shinobi!

Seriously though, filler aside, i think Sasuke still has the edge just because he seems to possess this killer edge that most Konoha ninjas seem to lack

Strider

Fri, 10-21-2005, 04:56 PM

We're not going off of that fluff garbage.

But, what killer edge are you talking about?

Had Itachi not done what he did do, Sasuke'd still be gayly smiling about being poked in the forehead. "My brother loves me .. Weee .."

Jadugar

Fri, 10-21-2005, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
Jad' and I killed one another for Orochimaru's cause, a la filler garbage.

Just a filler.

You will have to be much stronger to kill me.

Originally posted by: Strider
Xan' defected to Neji's side, and hasn't shown his face around these parts since.

He can speak for himself.

Originally posted by: Strider
And, Terra ate Assertn.

That's a joke right.

Originally posted by: Strider
We were having a week long moment in silence.

Its that time of the month for Neji. You know girls................

Originally posted by: Strider
You're all that's left, vasco ..

Vasco is the main attraction to this thread, not Neji or Sasuke.

Originally posted by: Strider
We all just finally agreed that Neji would win.

Garbage.

Update time.......

Latest Votes :

isso, masamuneehs

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 17
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs ]

NEJI : 19
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedX1, isso ]

Strider

Fri, 10-21-2005, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
He can speak for himself.

He can't. He's busy putting up "NEJI FOR PRESIDENT" posters. He PM'd me. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

However, with certain news of Naruto's fillers continuing for another six months, I am sure that will be six months more than they would need to butcher each and every character, except Sasuke of course .. since he's nowhere to be found. He'll be the only one to retain any dignity once the animators are done with Neji, Lee and everyone else we've come to love and enjoy ..

The inhumanity!

Jadugar

Fri, 10-21-2005, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
He can't. He's busy putting up "NEJI FOR PRESIDENT" posters. He PM'd me.

lol.

He is honorable enough to commit suicide than go to the other side.

The news of fillers is a boomer.

masamuneehs

Fri, 10-21-2005, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
[quote]
Originally posted by: Jadugar
However, with certain news of Naruto's fillers continuing for another six months, I am sure that will be six months more than they would need to butcher each and every character, except Sasuke of course .. since he's nowhere to be found. He'll be the only one to retain any dignity once the animators are done with Neji, Lee and everyone else we've come to love and enjoy ..

The inhumanity!

Rock Lee has been kicking ass, even in the filler episodes, but he always come off as a dumbass optimist... The 'humor' in Naruto these days is characters making complete Jackasses out of themselves..

I don't know whether we can say whether we shouldn't take the filler episodes into consideration for comparing characters because it really is just a matter of personal opinion anyhow, and our notions about the characters will still be effected by the filler episodes (given that they are still downloading this crap for the next several months...) and that does mean that characters left out from these trashy filler episodes will retain their older, more distant, image and be considered that much better off than those that the filler pisses on. 'Abscence makes the heart grow fonder?'

Strider

Mon, 10-24-2005, 10:51 AM

No considering fillers. It wouldn't be fair to the characters.

This six month break will definitely make me love the series that much more once it returns to its manga roots.

@ Jad': .. I don't know how, but I think the above was a vote for Neji, lol. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

XanBcoo

Mon, 10-24-2005, 01:49 PM

Same here Strider. I've quit watching. Now all my attention can be focused on threads like this one.

...and Oro/Itachi, and Shino/Kiba, and Kiba/Lee...oh gawwd nevermind.

Yeah, Neji's a dead man.

Strider

Mon, 10-24-2005, 03:49 PM

Kiba v. Lee .. Christ, just thinking about that thread's brought back pain from continuoius laughter. .. I tried to post in it earlier, but the forum went down on me. Heading there now. Thanks for the reminder.

And, in terms of the competition of the recent threads .. and the way Neji's character will be brutalized with the continuation of fillers .. Yes, Neji's a dead man. Sigh.

Jadugar

Mon, 10-24-2005, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
And, in terms of the competition of the recent threads .. and the way Neji's character will be brutalized with the continuation of fillers .. Yes, Neji's a dead man. Sigh.

They know not to fuck with Sasuke. You wont be seeing him in the fillers. I FUCKING HOPE NOT.

Strider

Tue, 10-25-2005, 11:05 AM

Sasuke is out of their grasp, you would think .. since it's clear they do not want to show Orochimaru or Sasuke just yet, as their future counterparts in the manga have not even been shown.

Could you imagine the ridiculous story that would accompany a cameo of Sasuke, so that it would not ripple and screw Kishimoto's work? It'd be disastrous. It'd make Mizuki and the Baka Bros. story arc look ten times better than the Zabuza arc.

With twenty-two more weeks of fillers, Sasuke just might show up. Mwuhahahaha.

darkmetal505

Sat, 01-21-2006, 02:34 PM

I know this thread is old, but i found a good video showing neji vs sasuke

neji vs sasuke (http://www.youtube.com/w/Neji-vs.-Sasuke?v=y6mvnOHIjLo&search=neji)

EDIT: its from the PS2 game I think

Aramis

Sat, 01-21-2006, 04:17 PM

the fucked up thing about Neji is that his touch can kill.
both of them see through any sort of trickery.
neji doesn't have any good ranged attacks, and sasuke's fire will just be blocked with kaiten.
they won't give each other an opening for any kind of fancy combos.

so this fight would ultimately come down to who can pour more energy into a single attack.
and neji can't match the power of sasuke's level 2 chidori.

therefore...i vote for sasuke, although there's a small chance for a double KO (kinda like what happened with neji and spiderman)

KoKo37

Sat, 01-21-2006, 04:23 PM

Well Sasuke's just gay, so Neji is like x10 better on the coolness side. But after like two and a half years of training with Oro and with the cursed seal and sharigan it would just overpower Neji. So in a battle I suppose my vote goes for Sasuke >.>

darkmetal505

Sat, 01-21-2006, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by: Aramis
the fucked up thing about Neji is that his touch can kill.
both of them see through any sort of trickery.
neji doesn't have any good ranged attacks, and sasuke's fire will just be blocked with kaiten.
they won't give each other an opening for any kind of fancy combos.

so this fight would ultimately come down to who can pour more energy into a single attack.
and neji can't match the power of sasuke's level 2 chidori.

therefore...i vote for sasuke, although there's a small chance for a double KO (kinda like what happened with neji and spiderman)

the video was intended to show who would win, I just thought it was a cool sasuke vs neji video

Assertn

Sat, 01-21-2006, 05:41 PM

I think the fact that 1 tailed kyubi naruto could rip orochimaru's face off and send him flying into the forest shows just what level of power was involved between curse seal sasuke and kyubi naruto. Neji wouldn't last a second.

Jadugar

Sat, 01-21-2006, 07:09 PM

Wow

This thread is alive again and two new votes. I guess I wil have to update the score.

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4148/sasuke5uq.jpg........................VS........... ........http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2766/neji6vp.jpg

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 19
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37 ]

NEJI : 19
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso ]

Carnage

Sat, 01-21-2006, 10:00 PM

Sasuke. End of Discussion.

Strider

Wed, 01-25-2006, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by: KoKo37
Well Sasuke's just gay, so Neji is like x10 better on the coolness side. But after like two and a half years of training with Oro and with the cursed seal and sharigan it would just overpower Neji. So in a battle I suppose my vote goes for Sasuke >.>

We weren't considering anything after the time-jump, as like most of Assertn's arguments, it lacks hard evidence. (Just felt like throwing that in there, as I saw someone say that in a previous thread)

But, talk about digging up a post to dig me out of a grave.

Sasuke would over power Neji. Hands down. However, Neji would kill Sasuke in the same moment.

Uchiha Barles

Wed, 01-25-2006, 06:03 PM

I don't understand why people are still saying things like that? Mut@t@ has several points with well thought out arguments all of which are still valid. I'll quote them because there's no point in rephrasing.

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Oops, I double posted.

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Naruto didn't survive the 64 palms because he has a huge amount of chakra, he got through it because he has two chakra flows and only one was cut off. As far as we can see Sasuke, while clearly also having a great amount, only has one flow, and there's no evidence anyone without two flows can take the 64 palms.
No, you're wrong. Chakra can only work one way, and it flows through the tenketsu only. There is no other way of chakra being released for Naruto. He jus has two sources for chakra; one as his own and the other one is kyuubi, obviously. His tenketsu were clearly shut off by Neji, but he used the demon fox chakra to overpower hakke's effects.

Originally posted by: vasco
Sasuke does not have 2nd chakra, and it time to recovery
It doesn't matter if you have a second chakra or not, chakra can be released only one way and that's through your tenketsu. Naruto used his kyuubi chakra to just overpower the effects of hakke. If Naruto can reverse it with just tons of chakra, why can't Sasuke? And I don't even know what your second sentence is saying.

64 hit is a linked attack, there is no room you can counter-attack once you got hit (escape you said he dodge all)
That's perfectly fine, Sasuke shouldn't even be hit by the initial hit in the first place with his sharingan.

It is because the spider thing is sticky... it cause Neji cannot split, but Sasuke has nothing to stick with Kaiten.
Clearly, the main reason why he wasn't able to spin was because of the sticky spider web, but my point was that since some spiders were able to penetrate the defense and stick webs on him, there's no reason why Sasuke can't do the same considering he uses the sharingan.

Ok, Sasuke is smart, but he is not Sakura. I don't think he can do such kind of calculation (Proven from writing exam - Sasuke "I don't understand, not even one question")
What the hell are you talking about? You completely missed my point. I wasn't talking about anything that involves intelligence. I was strictly referring to the fact that Sasuke's sharingan is so advanced (than before), he should see Neji's spinning kaiten as just normal movement. That would negate the fast spin velocity which would give Sasuke plenty of openings.

Well, Naruto is Ninja Technique, but Neji is Close Combat type, who know who is faster?
Naruto uses taijutsu pretty much as much as ninjutsu, and that isn't even relevant to what we're talking about. Neji doesn't focus on speed to use as his advantage; that's Lee. Neji's fighting style is structured from using finese techniques to immbolize his opponents and ultimately leaving them out of chakra (aka dead). Neji has never been known for his speed, while people like Naruto and Lee have.

That make a lot different
No, it doesn't really make that much of a difference against a sharingan user. Neji's advantage with the byakugan only lasts until Sasuke uses his sharingan to compensate for Neji's near-perfect vision. It doesn't matter if Neji can see everything around him, once he reacts to Sasuke's attack, Sasuke can pretty much just move out of the way because of the abilities of sharingan.

Again, Neji is close combat type, and he is fast as well... Remember Neji win Lee (Lee has super fast speed)
Neji would win every fight against a dumbass like Lee because without opening gates, Lee is a practice dummy against a natural genius like Neji. And Gai has always forbid Lee from opening the gates. We know this since Neji was surprised during Lee's fight against Gaara.

Everybody, just stop. You can't beat me.

Without the cursed seal, neiji and sasuke are almost evenly matched, even though I'd give the edge to neji because his byakugan in more useful in more situations than the Sharingan combat abilities. If someone calls me on that claim, I'll explain. However, if you add the power of the cursed seal to sasuke, his strenght is increased tremendously. Even the level seal would now give sasuke the advantage in my opinion. My reasoning is clear is simple. I believe the things mut@t@ said, but I feel that it puts the sasuke on par with neiji, not that it makes him superior. The level 1 cursed seal however seems to increase the abilities sasuke already posseses by increasing his speed and strenght. This should give Sasuke the edge. Now, although we haven't really seen too much of it, it stands to reason that the second level cursed seal should increase sasuke's power tremendously (black lightning chidori), and even give him new abilities, one of which is flying, another is blocking powerful attacks with those hands popping out of his back. We've seen this at the end of his fight with naruto. Furthurmore, based on how this and many other anime's work, the impression given by the characters is usually the correct one. Sasuke came across as much more powerful than most of the genin we've seen, including neiji. So most likely, it is true based on the precedence set by this series. I fail to see where all this disagreement is coming in.

darkmetal505

Wed, 01-25-2006, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by: Strider

Sasuke would over power Neji. Hands down. However, Neji would kill Sasuke in the same moment.

How, by saying it is his destiny to win and then having a pity party?

The Heretic Azazel

Wed, 01-25-2006, 06:46 PM

No, because he only needs one strike to slow Sasuke down and not many to immobilize him. You'd know that if you were paying any attention.

Uchiha Barles

Wed, 01-25-2006, 06:50 PM

The first strike will most likely fail, as was already pointed out, because of the abilities of the sharingan. It will detect neiji's counter attack and allow Sasuke to avoid it. Sharingan has to be the ultimate close combat advantage if unobstructed.

Strifexgx

Wed, 01-25-2006, 07:07 PM

Alright, ill start by giving the disclaimer that i may not remember all the names of the techniques (and ignore all spelling)

Both would start by activating their Doujutsus, Sharingan and Byakugan
Sauske would make the first move since hes pretty much always been that arrogant, prolly rush in with is unweighted Lee speed attempting a lion combo, Neji could easily dodge and counter, leading into his 64 palm attack, Sauske still with his Lee speed and his full sharingan could most likely dodge such an attack. Sauske would jump away to gain time and in battle banter would occur (like an all battles)
Knowing now that he cant get close, Sasuke uses his kanton and shurikan technigues from a distance, all to be countered by Kaiten. Sasuke seeing the opertunity rushes with Chidori. Chidori punches a small hole through the kaiten but since the chakra is still spinning Sasuke gets caught up in it and thrown back. Neji goes into his 128 palm and attacks sasuke, Sasuke attempts to dodge them all but due to failing stamina has to block some. Once done both jump away again.
Notciing the injuries from the block and some chakra points closed, Seal lvl 1 activates. Neji moves in for the attack, Sasuke attempts a counter attack only to be hit a few times and knocked away. Sasuke due to arrogance and desperation activates a second Chidori and rushes, Neji throws up kaiten again, CS1 sasuke's chidori again breaks through but not enough to disapate Kaiten and is once again thrown back.
Cursed Seal lvl 2 now becomes active. Sasuke rushes at an accerated pace catching neji before he can start his kiaten, pinning him against the wall. Sasuke readies the negative color chidori, Neji forces all his chakra to the point of impact but it isnt enough for the CS2 chidori and sasuke's hand goes through nejis chest into the wall behind him. Sasuke reverts to normal and goes to find medical help before the internal injuries from blocking Neji's attacks worsen.
Victory: Uchiha Sasuke

Im not a Sasuke fan boy, (he was actually pissing me off til i think he redeemed himself during his and Naruto's fight, by acknowledging Naruto and by vowing to find power in his own way.) But with the Cursed Seal lvl 2 that he has i just dont think Neji can overcome that. (I mean it did beat naruto's upped kyuubi form, while naruto's weak (stage 0.5 kyuubi i guess you could call it, beat neji). Though i dont think its a fair fight with the crused seal, without the seal Neji would win hands down. But that seal gives sasuke the definate edge.

Uchiha Barles

Wed, 01-25-2006, 07:42 PM

I agree with you on two points here. The first one, is that the scenario you described is unfortunately a very possible one despite the fact that it doesn't make sense. Either kishimoto or the animation team sometimes pull things out of their asses and chose to ignore certain precedences. Secondly, yes, Sasuke would win.

However, if what we've seen is remains consistent in the fights to come, your analysis is wrong. You are forgetting what the sharingan does. Neiji would most likely NOT be able to dodge Sasuke's first attack. Their speeds should be similar, and the Sharingan lets Sasuke predict neiji's next move, and as he did to Naruto, he can use that prediction to guide and time his attacks so that there's not a damn thing neiji could do about it. This even works against higher level ninja, as kakashi did to zabuza nearing the end of their fight (Zabuza: "Why can I not keep up with him?" Uchiha Barles: "Because he's using the sharingan.") Secondly, neiji would get no taijutsu attacks off on Sasuke, again, because of the Sharingan. I'll repeat, the Sharingan lets Sasuke predict neiji's next move, so Sasuke can also time his own movements to avoid neiji's attacks.

For neiji to stand a chance, he needs to do at least one of the things I'm going to list.

1) Become so much faster than Sasuke, that Sasuke cannot keep up with the predicted images. If he can do that, much like Rock Lee said, it doesn't matter if he can see the attacks coming or not.

2) Stop Sasuke's sharingan from activating. This would require him to attack Sasuke's tenketsus before Sasuke has a chance to activate the Sharingan. He can also stop the sharangan after it is activated, but to do that, he would need to use a combination of the next two things I'm going to mention.

3) Use the environment and ninjutsu, not genjutsu, to obstruct the vision of Sasuke's Sharingan. We saw the effectiveness of this in the Zabuza fight when Zabuza summoned the mist to prevent kakashi from seeing him with the sharingan. Zabusa used the sound of kakashi's movements to detect him. Neiju could just use the penetrating feature of his Byakugan to detect Sasuke.

4) If you cannot hide yourself from the sharingan using jutsu or the environment, at least hide your attacks using either the environment or supportive jutsus. We saw the effectiveness of this when Naruto used the water and the ground to hide his projected Red Chakra until it was so close to Sasuke that Sasuke could not dodge the attack. He used water and the ground as the concealing tools for the attacks. Before Naruto thought to do that, Sasuke avoided every attack.

I cannot think of another way to avoid the combat abilities of the sharingan. Of these options, I think only the last 2 I mentioned are viable ones for neiji.

Edit: Oh, anyone notice how the byakugan is ideally suited for long range combat? Really, the Hyuuga should rethink their combat strategies and include strong training in long range.

darkmetal505

Wed, 01-25-2006, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
No, because he only needs one strike to slow Sasuke down and not many to immobilize him. You'd know that if you were paying any attention.

oh yea i was, but thats not true. This thread implies that sasuke can use curse seal lvl 2.

I found a decent AMV of neji:

Byakugan at its Limits! Neji's Raging Battles (http://www.youtube.com/w/Byakugan-at-its-Limits%21-Neji%27s-Raging-Battles?v=T4Gu8mVh1q0&search=neji%20amv)

Assertn

Wed, 01-25-2006, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by: Strifexgx
Neji could easily dodge and counter, leading into his 64 palm attack

You mean like how orochimaru easily dodged one-tail naruto's frontal assault?
This is simply wrong.

Apparently I'm the only one that considered the last chapter as evidence of just how much power was involved in the sasuke vs naruto fight. Neji vs Sasuke would be like that first sasuke vs lee fight. He'll see it coming, but have no chance to react.

Necromas

Wed, 01-25-2006, 10:53 PM

My vote goes to Neji.

Kaiten + Jyuuken + Genius + Byakugan > Sharingan + Seal

Jadugar

Wed, 01-25-2006, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by: Necromas
My vote goes to Neji.

Kaiten + Jyuuken + Genius + Byakugan > Sharingan + Seal

You didnt mention Gokakyu no Jutsu
or
Chidori.

You do know that we are talking about Sasuke,..............UCHIHA SASUKE i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Three new votes

God#2, Strifexgx, Necromas,

P.S... Strifexgx reminds me of Vasco

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4148/sasuke5uq.jpg........................VS........... ........http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2766/neji6vp.jpg

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 21
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37,God#2, Strifexgx ]

NEJI : 20
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso, Necromas ]

XanBcoo

Thu, 01-26-2006, 12:02 AM

I'm suprised that anyone can think Neji can stand up to Level 2 CS Sasuke. I've already voted and argued this to death though, so I'll say that Uchiha Barles made some very very good points...

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
You mean like how orochimaru easily dodged one-tail naruto's frontal assault?

and although I agree with you, when exactly did this happen, Assertn? I can't for the life of me think when Orochimaru has gone face-to-face with One-tail (Kyuubi level 2) Naruto.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
P.S... Strifexgx reminds me of Vasco
I thought the same thing. What with the simulation and all. His was just lacking the spriders and throwing knife.

Assertn

Thu, 01-26-2006, 03:32 AM

Have you read chapter 291 yet, XanBcoo?

Uchiha Barles

Thu, 01-26-2006, 03:58 AM

The points that were made in this thread have been made throughout, yet not once, not even once, did someone post a valid counter point to the points made for why Sasuke would win. They just keep ignoring them.

Sapphire

Thu, 01-26-2006, 08:49 AM

Sasuke would win.. just because of Orochimaru's seals Neji has no chance

Strifexgx

Thu, 01-26-2006, 08:58 AM

Yeah in my scenario i went with a few assumptions. Some of which could be wrong (its been a long time since i went through all the battles.
1) Neji has Lee in his team and has fought with him many times and won, so i figured Neji would be able to keep up at least at some lvl with his speed.
2) Sasuke is also new at using the full sharingan so i figured he could see the moves and all but not do any of the genjutsu parts yet, only since we havent seen him do any yet. i dont think he knows how to influnce others moves yet with it.

But like i said i could be wrong with these since i havent watch the back episodes in a while (got into bleach lately since Naruto went into endless fillers). But in the end i think the result will always be the same, the lvl 2 Cursed Seal just completely out powers neji.

The Heretic Azazel

Thu, 01-26-2006, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
The points that were made in this thread have been made throughout, yet not once, not even once, did someone post a valid counter point to the points made for why Sasuke would win. They just keep ignoring them.

There are 19 pages in this topic and half of the people involved voted for Neji. Just because you stick to your opinion doesn't mean it's elite and everyone else should follow it. There are plenty of good points for why Neji would win just like there are plenty for why Sasuke should win. But don't discredit points just because they don't conform to your opinion.

XanBcoo

Thu, 01-26-2006, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Have you read chapter 291 yet, XanBcoo?

I haven't read the manga past the Kakashi Gaiden, but I don't mind a few minor spoilers here and there. Apparently the friend I asked (who reads the manga) if Oro had fought Naruto yet hasn't read chapter 291 either.

So yeah, if you're saying that even Orochimaru had trouble facing One-tail Naruto, then Neji would stand no chance. I don't see what's so hard about understanding that Naruto and Sasuke, with the Kyuubi and CS activated, are leagues more powerful than the other students.

Uchiha Barles

Thu, 01-26-2006, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
The points that were made in this thread have been made throughout, yet not once, not even once, did someone post a valid counter point to the points made for why Sasuke would win. They just keep ignoring them.

There are 19 pages in this topic and half of the people involved voted for Neji. Just because you stick to your opinion doesn't mean it's elite and everyone else should follow it. There are plenty of good points for why Neji would win just like there are plenty for why Sasuke should win. But don't discredit points just because they don't conform to your opinion.

When you're holding an argument, you make certain assertions and you back them up with logic and evidence. For someone to argue with you for a conflicting viewpoint, they have invalidate or increase doubt in the assertions you've set forth, while setting forth and validating their own viewpoints using logic evidence. The argument can continue back and forth until one side can no longer validate his assertions or invalidate those of his opponents. By ignoring points made, the discussion goes in circles. You know what? I'd even take "Neiji would win, because I like neiji better. So there." It lets me know who to argue with and who not to. But after posts like the one I quoted earlier, to get responses like "Neiji would win because he's simply better" which do nothing at all to invalidate the points already made, or even give some validation to the point they're trying to make, well...its just bad. It doesn't help the discussion whatsoever. I'm not so stubborn that if someone points out something I didn't consider that changes my opinion, I won't listen. Unless I have a particular bias. In this case, I do not. You don't want to follow my opinion? Go ahead and don't. I use the "This thing is better just cuz I like it better" argument all the time. But I also add this "so there's no point at all in you trying to convince me otherwise." That way, no one wastes their efforts in participating in something that should have been a decent argument, but only leaves them feeling unfulfilled or like they've wasted their time.

Assertn

Thu, 01-26-2006, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Have you read chapter 291 yet, XanBcoo?

I haven't read the manga past the Kakashi Gaiden, but I don't mind a few minor spoilers here and there. Apparently the friend I asked (who reads the manga) if Oro had fought Naruto yet hasn't read chapter 291 either.

So yeah, if you're saying that even Orochimaru had trouble facing One-tail Naruto, then Neji would stand no chance. I don't see what's so hard about understanding that Naruto and Sasuke, with the Kyuubi and CS activated, are leagues more powerful than the other students.

Well, this does happen to be open discussion: free reign for spoilers.
And with that said, yes, in 291 a one-tailed kyubi naruto rips the face off of orochimaru while sending him flying into the forest behind him.
Poor guy didn't even see it coming. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

The Heretic Azazel

Thu, 01-26-2006, 01:05 PM

Well, I've posted all the arguments over Sasuke/Neji in this thread that I'm going to post, and I ain't gonna posts no more. People came in late in the game with a few shit opinions, you're using the past few posters to define your argument. It's not my fault Sasuke fans are somehow more intelligent than Neji fan when it comes to debating these things.

Ero-Fan

Thu, 01-26-2006, 01:19 PM

XanBcoo

Thu, 01-26-2006, 05:14 PM

I'd think Oro would want Sasuke to improve as much as he could if he was going to use him as a container. I don't think he would allow Sasuke to rely only on the Curse Seal, stunting his development and damaging his body. But that has nothing to do with the discussion since we're only considering pre-time jump Neji/Sasuke (just makes me want to see the improved Sasuke even more!) I still think that If, let's say, Neji had fought Sasuke at the Valley of the End instead of Naruto, Sasuke would have decimated Neji with the ammount of power he had. No contest. This is now evidenced by Naruto being able to attack Orochimaru successfully while at the same stage of power as when he fought Sasuke.

Ha, I'm a Neji fan more than a Sasuke fan, and I still say after Sasuke learned how to use CS level 2, he would kick the shit out of Neji (well, probably anybody below Sannin or Naruto's level at that).
I agree. I'm also a Neji fan, but there's no denying he wouldn't have a chance.

Uchiha Barles

Fri, 01-27-2006, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Well, I've posted all the arguments over Sasuke/Neji in this thread that I'm going to post, and I ain't gonna posts no more. People came in late in the game with a few shit opinions, you're using the past few posters to define your argument. It's not my fault Sasuke fans are somehow more intelligent than Neji fan when it comes to debating these things.

*Nods*

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
I'd think Oro would want Sasuke to improve as much as he could if he was going to use him as a container. I don't think he would allow Sasuke to rely only on the Curse Seal, stunting his development and damaging his body. But that has nothing to do with the discussion since we're only considering pre-time jump Neji/Sasuke (just makes me want to see the improved Sasuke even more!) I still think that If, let's say, Neji had fought Sasuke at the Valley of the End instead of Naruto, Sasuke would have decimated Neji with the ammount of power he had. No contest. This is now evidenced by Naruto being able to attack Orochimaru successfully while at the same stage of power as when he fought Sasuke.

Ha, I'm a Neji fan more than a Sasuke fan, and I still say after Sasuke learned how to use CS level 2, he would kick the shit out of Neji (well, probably anybody below Sannin or Naruto's level at that).
I agree. I'm also a Neji fan, but there's no denying he wouldn't have a chance.

Another reason that I don't think Orochimaru would refrain from training Sasuke is that this seems to be a kind of deal made in hell, to which both parties are bound to an agreement. Orochimaru has to train Sasuke and give him not only the abilities of a normal ninja, but powers that he could not get elsewhere. Sasuke has to merge with Orochimaru. If Orochimaru tries to go back on the agreement, Sasuke'll just leave. He doesn't have to announce his departure so that he's not stopped. If Sasuke goes back on his side of the bargain, well, he'll end up fighting Orochimaru, which might actually happen. This is not a deal that either side can easily break. At least I don't think so.

Assertn

Fri, 01-27-2006, 03:36 PM

I still don't know why people find oro to be so untrustworthy. As I said back in the oro/tsunade ordeal, the guy has no reason to go back on his word...I'd like to think of him as the godfather: The dangerous leader type that has a sense of pride to not pull underhanded pranks on those that offer him support...as long as its mutually beneficial.

Sapphire

Sat, 01-28-2006, 10:17 AM

Uh doesn't Orochimaru tend to kill off his subordinates/village people for experiments? That's not mutually beneficial!

And he was still going to destroy Kohona after Tsunade healed his hands, even though he said he wouldn't. (lie)

The Heretic Azazel

Sat, 01-28-2006, 11:26 AM

It's painfully obvious he was lying to Tsunade from the moment he told her he wouldn't.

Assertn

Sat, 01-28-2006, 10:57 PM

He wouldve resurrected Nawaki and Dan though

Jadugar

Sat, 01-28-2006, 11:12 PM

Update Time

Two new ones

Sapphire, Ero-Fan

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4148/sasuke5uq.jpg........................VS........... ........http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2766/neji6vp.jpg

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 23
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37,God#2, Strifexgx, Sapphire, Ero-Fan ]

NEJI : 20
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso, Necromas ]

Deadfire

Sun, 01-29-2006, 12:35 AM

Holy crap... after reading (and understanding) it's obvious to me that Sasuke will come out on top. Although that fight will be very hardcore and at the end of it both would be near-death (or one of them being dead) I'm going to say it's him that will stay standing....he falls down due to injuries after that.. but there you have it

aznroyale

Sun, 01-29-2006, 12:46 AM

Sasuke will win

Jadugar

Mon, 01-30-2006, 09:30 PM

So many Sasuke votes within few days, I cant believe it.

New ones :

Deadfire, aznroyale

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4148/sasuke5uq.jpg........................VS........... ........http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2766/neji6vp.jpg

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 25
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37,God#2, Strifexgx, Sapphire, Ero-Fan, Deadfire, aznroyale ]

NEJI : 20
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso, Necromas ]

Carnage

Wed, 02-01-2006, 04:08 PM

I dont see how Neji could win. Sasuke would only need he super speedy Curse Seal Lv. 1 to go up to Neji and beat the shit out of him. Neji probably wouldnt be fast enough to perform Kaiten before Sasuke reaches him.

MASTA-OF-DISASTA

Tue, 02-07-2006, 08:08 AM

I vote for sasuke

Was so damn funny btw. All those neji-fanboys dissapearing i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif. I mean comeone guys..... u really thought neji could win vs something that is stronger than.... PURPLE KYUUBI-RASENGAN.

Just my 50 cent.

sevyfez

Tue, 02-07-2006, 07:40 PM

I think that sasuke would win only on the terms that I like him better and for no other technical reason.
But....... I beleive that Negi could have beat sasuke hands down before he had the cs!!
Just my input.

Also all these made up possible fight scenerio's I think are pointless for the fact that anything can happen, While at the same time I think that they were all very well thoughout and well put.

Carnage

Tue, 02-07-2006, 08:17 PM

Change your animated avatar. Its against the rules. Thank you.

anphorus

Tue, 02-07-2006, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by: sevyfez
But....... I beleive that Negi could have beat sasuke hands down before he had the cs!!

That much is obvious. As we have just seen in the dub, before he trained with Kakashi prior to the final test of the Chuunin exam, without his cs Sasuke was easy prey for Lee who, it has been shown, was no match for Neji. Before the forest of death a Sasuke vs. Neji match up would have been over hilariously fast.

XanBcoo

Tue, 02-07-2006, 09:00 PM

Yet after he learned the Chidori, dramatically increased his speed, and unlocked his Sharingan further, he would have been strong enough to go head to head with Neji without resorting to the curse seal. Maybe he wouldn't have won, but I think he'd be able to hold his own. He's a genious ninja, strongest of his class, and has the Sharingan. Don't take him lightly. The curse seal just guarntees his win i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif.

Carnage

Tue, 02-07-2006, 09:10 PM

Is everyone forgetting that he devolped his sharingan to a whole new amazing level?

anphorus

Tue, 02-07-2006, 09:53 PM

We didn't forget. Mostly because that didn't happen.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Yet after he learned the Chidori, dramatically increased his speed, and unlocked his Sharingan further, he would have been strong enough to go head to head with Neji without resorting to the curse seal. Maybe he wouldn't have won, but I think he'd be able to hold his own. He's a genious ninja, strongest of his class, and has the Sharingan. Don't take him lightly. The curse seal just guarntees his win i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif.
Oh don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that Sasuke as he is now, or even after Kakashi's training couldn't defeat Neji. I'm just saying that at one point in time, he wouldn't have stood a chance.

Afterall, there was once a time when Itachi would be killed by kakashi without any significant effort, but that time is long gone.

XanBcoo

Tue, 02-07-2006, 10:25 PM

I understood that part completely (and I agree), but you also mentioned the curse seal earlier, which I think he wouldn't need in order to fight Neji equally.

MASTA-OF-DISASTA

Wed, 02-08-2006, 05:04 PM

Well guys i know im delving pretty deeply into the unknown territories of the naruto-future but.

I think that sasuke will get his curse seal off quite a while before the end of the series, so that must mean that he will still be a badass without hit seal.

I see him like i see kakashi at his agei/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Carnage

Wed, 02-08-2006, 09:26 PM

Ok. Sasuke=Kakshi is a no-no.

Sasuke's third pupil sharingan would own Neji. He would see all of his attacks before they came.

darkmetal505

Wed, 02-08-2006, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by: God#2
Ok. Sasuke=Kakshi is a no-no.

Sasuke's third pupil sharingan would own Neji. He would see all of his attacks before they came.

not only that, but his curse seal would give him immense power that even neji couldnt block

Jadugar

Thu, 02-09-2006, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
The curse seal just guarntees his wini/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

That was my trump card agianst Strider(R.I.P)

@ anphorus : Who did you vote for?

New votes : MASTA-OF-DISASTA, sevyfez

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 27
[ Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, AssertnFailure,Nests, XanBcoo,coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37,God#2, Strifexgx, Sapphire, Ero-Fan, Deadfire, aznroyale, MASTA-OF-DISASTA, sevyfez ]

NEJI : 20
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso, Necromas ]

Strider

Thu, 02-16-2006, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by: God#2
Sasuke's third pupil sharingan would own Neji. He would see all of his attacks before they came.

I'm still not buying this.

Manga scanlations and episode translations both state Sasuke read Naruto's movements due to the chakra empowering his motions. Neji doesn't suffer from the need of a secondary source.

And, I cannot take anyone seriously who states Sasuke would not need his Curse Seal to defeat Neji or even fight him equally. That's nonsense.

Alas, for the millionth time, the Curse Seal guarantees Sasuke's victory. Although, I still believe without a doubt in the instant Sasuke would land his Chidori, his preferred (I won't say "only," as to not antagonize the billion of "what if" people ..) finishing technique, Neji would land that one and only necessary blow on his body, killing him slowly, if not instantly, thereafter.

anphorus

Thu, 02-16-2006, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
[quote]
Originally posted by: God#2
Manga scanlations and episode translations both state Sasuke read Naruto's movements due to the chakra empowering his motions. Neji doesn't suffer from the need of a secondary source.

Really? I don't remember that. I always got the impression that what the Sharingan did was to observe the opponents movements and predict how the opponent was going to move, the sharingan then translates that information into a format that the user can understand (those future-echo's that Sasuke can see when using his Sharingan.

@Jadugar: Oh, I vote for Sasuke on this one.

Strider

Thu, 02-16-2006, 12:46 PM

I am at work, and cannot directly quote the episode or the manga chapter as it is archived at home, but Sasuke's statement was something along the lines of:

"The subtle way his chakra enters and powers his body, I can see his next movement .."

He then goes on considering how if he's been using it to avoid being struck, he should also be able to time it accordingly and attack prior to Naruto fully being in place and taking the offensive.

But, because of the translation (taken from two manga scan teams and one anime team - unsure if it was DB or AonE, I have both), it implied those echoes were more ninjutsu intensive due to the inclusion of chakra, which had it been normal motion and running, more relative to taijutsu, only stamina would have been used.

darkshadow

Thu, 02-16-2006, 02:14 PM

neji

Carnage

Thu, 02-16-2006, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: God#2
Sasuke's third pupil sharingan would own Neji. He would see all of his attacks before they came.

I'm still not buying this.

Manga scanlations and episode translations both state Sasuke read Naruto's movements due to the chakra empowering his motions. Neji doesn't suffer from the need of a secondary source.

And, I cannot take anyone seriously who states Sasuke would not need his Curse Seal to defeat Neji or even fight him equally. That's nonsense.

Alas, for the millionth time, the Curse Seal guarantees Sasuke's victory. Although, I still believe without a doubt in the instant Sasuke would land his Chidori, his preferred (I won't say "only," as to not antagonize the billion of "what if" people ..) finishing technique, Neji would land that one and only necessary blow on his body, killing him slowly, if not instantly, thereafter.

Heres a link to the manga page explaining the sharingan scanlated by INANE!

http://img106.imageshack.us/im...38/chapter230074cw.png (http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/7938/chapter230074cw.png)

It says that he can track the chakra, doesnt have to be the Kyuubi's chakra. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't have been able to makeout Zabuza's hand seals. And Sasuke also says that he feels the same as when he used the cursed seal. You cant take me seriously? But I just proved you wrong!

ChaosK

Thu, 02-16-2006, 10:25 PM

game, set, match god#2.

darkshadow

Fri, 02-17-2006, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by: God#2

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: God#2
Sasuke's third pupil sharingan would own Neji. He would see all of his attacks before they came.

I'm still not buying this.

Manga scanlations and episode translations both state Sasuke read Naruto's movements due to the chakra empowering his motions. Neji doesn't suffer from the need of a secondary source.

And, I cannot take anyone seriously who states Sasuke would not need his Curse Seal to defeat Neji or even fight him equally. That's nonsense.

Alas, for the millionth time, the Curse Seal guarantees Sasuke's victory. Although, I still believe without a doubt in the instant Sasuke would land his Chidori, his preferred (I won't say "only," as to not antagonize the billion of "what if" people ..) finishing technique, Neji would land that one and only necessary blow on his body, killing him slowly, if not instantly, thereafter.

Heres a link to the manga page explaining the sharingan scanlated by INANE!

http://img106.imageshack.us/im...38/chapter230074cw.png (http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/7938/chapter230074cw.png)

It says that he can track the chakra, doesnt have to be the Kyuubi's chakra. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't have been able to makeout Zabuza's hand seals. And Sasuke also says that he feels the same as when he used the cursed seal. You cant take me seriously? But I just proved you wrong!

reading movements is done by the eye of insight, kakashi himself said that the byakugan eye of insight is better then sharingans, so why can sasuke dodge neji's freaking fast ### strikes, but neji wouldnt be able dodge a straight and linear attack like chidori?(man kimimaro would own him), even kakashi ( ok he didnt have sharingan but he was a jounin already ) got countered when he did it the first time, so neji would dodge it and jyuuken it like how he did on hinata's arm, bam no more chakra, and then this would happen:

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/darkshadow/neji.gif

sasuke would die.....horribly

XanBcoo

Fri, 02-17-2006, 12:54 AM

Neji is my best and favorite character on NH3. Nice use of his Ougi.

But define "insight." As far as has been described already, the Byakugan works by seeing near-360 degree vision, and also allows them to see the chakra flow/points. That has nothing to do with reading movements. In any case, doesn't every person have a chakra flow that could be read by Sasuke? Nothing says it has to be Kyuubi's chakra, but the fact that he is ABLE to dodge Kyuubi-Naruto like he did guarantees that he would have no trouble with Neji.

To quote Assertn:

I think the fact that 1 tailed kyubi naruto could rip orochimaru's face off and send him flying into the forest shows just what level of power was involved between curse seal sasuke and kyubi naruto. Neji wouldn't last a second.

darkshadow

Fri, 02-17-2006, 11:00 AM

Well, kyuubi naruto was fast, but not in his combos, he was just a fast mover, his combos didnt even require the show to slow down , while neji vs. kidoumaru the world slowed to a crawl against the spiders, its like rock lee said, its ok if your eyes can keep up, but the question is can your body?, the speed of 128 strikes was already amazing, much faster then any combo any char in naruto has ever shown, so even though sasuke might see it coming, he wouldnt be able to react in time.

And like Strider said, neji would only need 1 touch on sasuke's body and it would be over, so even if it means the chidori would hit him afterwards, sasuke would die too, for me either neji wins, or its a draw

Assertn

Fri, 02-17-2006, 12:33 PM

Thats why, to rival neji, gai had lee train in pure physical speed. "The trick to defeating neji is with this high speed combo," as Gai put it.

Sasuke now has the same level of speed as lee.

Strider

Fri, 02-17-2006, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by: God#2
It says that he can track the chakra, doesnt have to be the Kyuubi's chakra. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't have been able to makeout Zabuza's hand seals. And Sasuke also says that he feels the same as when he used the cursed seal. You cant take me seriously? But I just proved you wrong!

Thank you for the image link. It was beautiful. Nice work, there.

It doesn't have to be the Kyuubi's Chakra? You're quickly freefalling into the "what if .." category.

"It probably isn't the Kyuubi Chakra Naruto's using .. The fact the dark whisker marks and fox pupils mean nothing! And, in the episode the fact Naruto was emanating with the distinct Kyuubi colored chakra means nothing .. it was his regular form."

Right.

Zabuza later explains the hypnotic effects he was under, while looking into Kakashi's Sharingan. It was more Kakashi performing the jutsu (that was more than likely previously known ages ago), and suggesting Zabuza to also perform it, giving it the mirror / illusion ideal.

In addition, my comment was indirectly aimed towards Xan' who stated Sasuke would not need the Curse Seal. Hence my statement, which said exactly that.

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
game, set, match god#2.

Two thousand posts, and still saying nothing ..

Guess that was just for one more, 'eh?

I think Assertn's counter needed an update:

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Idiots who pat themselves on the back before recieving the counter-argument: 1
( God#2 )

EDIT: Speak of the Devil ..

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Sasuke now has the same level of speed as lee.

Unsustained.

On an off note, I just noticed that .gif someone posted of Neji, on the previous page. I need to get that game. That shit looked amazing.

XanBcoo

Fri, 02-17-2006, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
It doesn't have to be the Kyuubi's Chakra? You're quickly freefalling into the "what if .." category.

"It probably isn't the Kyuubi Chakra Naruto's using .. The fact the dark whisker marks and fox pupils mean nothing! And, in the episode the fact Naruto was emanating with the distinct Kyuubi colored chakra means nothing .. it was his regular form."

Apparently Naruto uses both Kyuubi's chakra and his own while possessed by the fox. Even in one-tail form. This can be seen by the purple Rasengan he's used, which is his own chakra surrounded by Kyuubi's. See my sig for details.

But even if he didn't have his own blue chakra, he still has the same chakra flow as everyone else, just much more of it, which is used explosively. I'd think that if Sasuke could see that movement of chakra, he could definitely see a normal ninja's chakra movements. Especially Neji, who attacks specifically with (physically performed) chakra attacks.

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Sasuke now has the same level of speed as lee.

Unsustained.

On an off note, I just noticed that .gif someone posted of Neji, on the previous page. I need to get that game. That shit looked amazing.
Unsustained? I'd think that being as fast as weightless Lee, with the curse seal (not even in level 2 I'd argue) and the sharingan, he'd be fast enough to have the upper hand in hand to hand combat. There are of course the other arguements like whether or not we are counting the filler 128 hakke thing, or whether or not the curse seal provides a way to overcome the blockadge (like Naruto did), that might give Neji more weight however.

And yeah, that NH3 clip is pretty awesome. Neji is so cool in that game.

Jadugar

Fri, 02-17-2006, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by: darkshadow
neji would only need 1 touch on sasuke's body and it would be over, so even if it means the chidori would hit him afterwards, sasuke would die too, for me either neji wins, or its a draw

Sasuke's body is not made out of paper.

I didnt get the second part of your assumption. If sasuke dies then his body wont produce any chakra hence no chidori or if he has already trigered one then it would go off immediately becuase of no source of power. Unless you are imagining a chidori fire ball (just like in street fighter).

And no, its not a draw. Its a clear win for Sasuke. You need more insight

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
See my sig for details

I know its off topic but can I say that your sig. is one of the best looking sig on Gotwoot. (no, its not a joke)
I just love that Howl! Zabimaru!!!

Originally posted by: Strider
Thank you for the image link. It was beautiful. Nice work, there.

I am still shocked.

@ Chaoskiddo : You are trespassing. Say something.

Carnage

Fri, 02-17-2006, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: God#2
It says that he can track the chakra, doesnt have to be the Kyuubi's chakra. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't have been able to makeout Zabuza's hand seals. And Sasuke also says that he feels the same as when he used the cursed seal. You cant take me seriously? But I just proved you wrong!

Thank you for the image link. It was beautiful. Nice work, there.

It doesn't have to be the Kyuubi's Chakra? You're quickly freefalling into the "what if .." category.

Thank you. But about Kakashi making Zabuza copy his jutsu, it was Zabuza's technique in the first place. Kakashi was copying Zabuza. Kakashi just hypnotized Zabazu into thinking that Kakashi could read minds and tell the future. His eye helped him reveal the hands signs before Zabuza could finish. This is fully understandable once we see how Sasuke's sharingan worked. Oh, and yes. That game kicks ass. Cant wait to get it.

P.S. The speed of One Tail Kyuubi is alot faster than neji or lee. If: (and Im talking about speed)

Sasuke w/o Curse seal = Lee w/o weights

then Sasuke > Neji's speed

+ Neji has a limited area for which he can use the attack. Did you see that black semicircle he was in when he use that 128 somethingsomething move?

Now:

Kyuubi Naruto > Seal Sasuke

Then 3 Pupil sharingan> Kyuubi naruto

THEN 1 tail Naruto > 3 pupil sharingan

XanBcoo

Fri, 02-17-2006, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by: God#2
Thank you. But about Kakashi making Zabuza copy his jutsu, it was Zabuza's technique in the first place. Kakashi was copying Zabuza. Kakashi just hypnotized Zabazu into thinking that Kakashi could read minds and tell the future. His eye helped him reveal the hands signs before Zabuza could finish. This is fully understandable once we see how Sasuke's sharingan worked. Oh, and yes. That game kicks ass. Cant wait to get it.

That's not really correct. The way it was explained when Zabuza recalled the event was that Kakashi already knew all those jutsu he used against Zabuza (from years of acquiring jutsu through copying). He then messed with Zabuza's mind during the fight by copying his movements, making Zabuza freak out and stop mid-jutsu while Kakashi performed the same jutsu (because he already knew it) and won. I don't like that explanation as much though, because it seems a little far-fetched that Kakashi would be able to subconciously tell Zabuza what to do, and "read his mind" so accurately.

It is pretty clear, though, that the Sharingan can copy physical movements. Sasuke uses it to copy hand movements during the 1st exam, when he is fighting Lee, and then again when he copied the Shishi Rendan. It's also used in conjunction with the Chidori to avoid that blind spot caused by moving so fast - avoiding any possible counter attacks. So that means the Sharingan can analyze and copy physical movements, as well as chakra flow (as seen against Kyuubi-Naruto).

+ Neji has a limited area for which he can use the attack. Did you see that black semicircle he was in when he use that 128 somethingsomething move?
That's only because he was defending against the spiders. He did the exact same thing with 64 Hakke attack, which we know isn't always used in that manner. Apparently any object within Neji's range ("divination" according to Aone) is a target for the combo. That's the way I understand it at least.

anphorus

Fri, 02-17-2006, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
It is pretty clear, though, that the Sharingan can copy physical movements. Sasuke uses it to copy hand movements during the 1st exam, when he is fighting Lee, and then again when he copied the Shishi Rendan. So that means it can analyze and copy physical movements, as well as chakra flow (as seen against Kyuubi-Naruto).

Just to add to this point, further evidence that the sharingan can copy chakra flow is in the fact that it can copy the enemies techniques at all. When you use a jutsu you don't just make hand seals, you also mix the chakra in your body in a certain way. If a normal person way to just use the hand seals nothing would happen, and if, as a ninja, you just copy handsigns then the jutsu would either fail or work incorrectly. Otherwise the sharingan's copying ability wouldn't be anything special as anyone could do it by following the opponents handsigns.

darkshadow

Fri, 02-17-2006, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: darkshadow
neji would only need 1 touch on sasuke's body and it would be over, so even if it means the chidori would hit him afterwards, sasuke would die too, for me either neji wins, or its a draw

Sasuke's body is not made out of paper.

I didnt get the second part of your assumption. If sasuke dies then his body wont produce any chakra hence no chidori or if he has already trigered one then it would go off immediately becuase of no source of power. Unless you are imagining a chidori fire ball (just like in street fighter).

And no, its not a draw. Its a clear win for Sasuke. You need more insight

how would that matter?, jyuuken is chakra, so even if he had a titanium body or something, jyuuken would still fuck him up badly, like lee ( or someone) said. his style is about doing damage to the exterior ( breaking bones and stuff). while the hyuuga style damages the interior, so even if lets say kimimaro did his bone masks stuff, neji would still be able to seriously injure him

and what i meant with the second part, if sasuke does chidori and somehow suprises neji with it, neji would ony have to touch him around the heart, to slowly kill him, and its not like that touch would instantly stop the chidori, so they would both die

edit: also assertn, the thing to defeat neji was the ura renge he did on gaara, not his normal no weights speed, sasuke is not even near lee's ura renge speed

darkmetal505

Fri, 02-17-2006, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by: darkshadow

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: darkshadow
neji would only need 1 touch on sasuke's body and it would be over, so even if it means the chidori would hit him afterwards, sasuke would die too, for me either neji wins, or its a draw

Sasuke's body is not made out of paper.

I didnt get the second part of your assumption. If sasuke dies then his body wont produce any chakra hence no chidori or if he has already trigered one then it would go off immediately becuase of no source of power. Unless you are imagining a chidori fire ball (just like in street fighter).

And no, its not a draw. Its a clear win for Sasuke. You need more insight

how would that matter?, jyuuken is chakra, so even if he had a titanium body or something, jyuuken would still fuck him up badly, like lee ( or someone) said. his style is about doing damage to the exterior ( breaking bones and stuff). while the hyuuga style damages the interior, so even if lets say kimimaro did his bone masks stuff, neji would still be able to seriously injure him

and what i meant with the second part, if sasuke does chidori and somehow suprises neji with it, neji would ony have to touch him around the heart, to slowly kill him, and its not like that touch would instantly stop the chidori, so they would both die

edit: also assertn, the thing to defeat neji was the ura renge he did on gaara, not his normal no weights speed, sasuke is not even near lee's ura renge speed

if he can touch sausuke. Evidence has led up that sasuke's sharingan can predict neji's movement.

Jadugar

Sat, 02-18-2006, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by: darkshadow
jyuuken is chakra

I feel like pulling my hair out.

Juken literally means gentle fist, not chakra.

The inner coil system that transfers chakra around the body is very close and is essentially a part of all of the human body, including crucial organs. Members of the Hyuga clan train in a special fighting style that requires the Byakugan and excellent chakra control; through the Byakugan they are able to see the opponent's inner coil system which they forcefully channel their own chakra into, causing severe damage to organs nearby. The technique earned its name because even a seemingly gentle, unimpressive hit can prove lethal.

I didnt bother reading the rest of your post. I will read it when I have spare time and edit this post. In the mean time try doing some research before posting. You will doing all of us a huge favour.

darkshadow

Sat, 02-18-2006, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: darkshadow
jyuuken is chakra

I feel like pulling my hair out.

Juken literally means gentle fist, not chakra.

The inner coil system that transfers chakra around the body is very close and is essentially a part of all of the human body, including crucial organs. Members of the Hyuga clan train in a special fighting style that requires the Byakugan and excellent chakra control; through the Byakugan they are able to see the opponent's inner coil system which they forcefully channel their own chakra into, causing severe damage to organs nearby. The technique earned its name because even a seemingly gentle, unimpressive hit can prove lethal.

I didnt bother reading the rest of your post. I will read it when I have spare time and edit this post. In the mean time try doing some research before posting. You will doing all of us a huge favour.

will you stfu being so precise, i hate people who cant think for themselfs and take everything literally, you said it yourself, jyuuken forces charka in the body it touches, in other words jyuuken is a chakra attack not just simple taijutsu like lee's, thats why i said "jyuuken is chakra", think a bit for yourself what people mean, you're not 5 anymore, or are you?
and if you want to go literally, "juken" means something entirely different, it's jyuuken, do your research fool.

xDarkMaster

Sat, 02-18-2006, 11:34 AM

You can't say that darkshadow. Saying "jyuuken is chakra" is COMPLETELY wrong. Saying jyuuken uses chakra wouldn't be, but how can you blame anyone for thinking your just plain wrong when you say that?

darkshadow

Sat, 02-18-2006, 12:04 PM

because i would be like, wtf? oh he means that it uses chakra.

i wouldnt make a stupid degrading post like HEY do your research man cause your just stupid saying that its chakra, i would be like, you probably mean that jyuuken uses chakra dont you? people always want to feel superior above another

edit: ill post some sasuke related gifs later, fir his share of fans

Jadugar

Sat, 02-18-2006, 12:53 PM

@ darkshadow:

Hahahha

Saying "water is fire" and "fire is water" is clearly wrong.

Whereas spelling something different is understandable. You can spell it "juken" or "jyuuken", it doesnt make any difference. Why? Because the original term is not an English one. Its Japanese. So people can spell it differently depending on how they pronounce it.

Originally posted by: darkshadow
in other words jyuuken is a chakra attack not just simple taijutsu like lee's, thats why i said "jyuuken is chakra

Nearly every Jutsu ( not taijutsu) requires chakra. So you cant go round saying they are just Chakra or chakra attacks.

Originally posted by: darkshadow
"juken" means something entirely different

No you fool, Juken/Jyuuken literally means gentle fist. Burn that in your skull.

In defense of my so called degrading post I would like to say that I did say, try to do some research. I never though you would be so incapable and incompetent.

Also did you notice that I didnt use words like "stfu" in my last two posts unlike you.

Oh and another thing, some people are superior to others. Its a fact.

darkshadow

Sat, 02-18-2006, 01:07 PM

degrading :
"You need more insight"
"I didnt bother reading the rest of your post."
"try doing some research before posting. You will doing all of us a huge favour."

jyuuken is not a jutsu, its a taijutsu attack using chakra
juken:
juken
(n,vs) being subjected to investigation

juken
(n,vs) taking an examination; (P)

juken
(n) authorization; authorisation

sry about the stfu but i just hate it when people are being over precise and feel the need to correct someone on every little thing.

and yes some people are superior i didnt say that some aren't, i cant stand the people who think they are superior but they're not

Jadugar

Sat, 02-18-2006, 01:30 PM

@ darkshadow :

Let me start my post with a happier note.

Where are my manners? Welcome to this thread darkshadow!

As long as you will continue to defend Neji, I am afraid I have no choice but to nail you down to the ground. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
Dont take it so personally. I dont know if you have gone through the whole thread but I have grilled people like nobodys business. Its just a controversial topic and the winning is in the finer details. I am not picking on you, its the normal welcome I give to every Neji fan. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif I am sorry if you were offended by my remarks. Dont take them so personally. I wouldnt. Thanx for not using any rude words in your last post. There are 426 replies in this thread and every body has been very civil.

I never said I am superior to anybody, you just assumed. Maybe I am, maybe not. Once again sorry for making you feel bad. Its just my defense mechanism. I cant help it. Feel free to post your opinions but beware I am watching. That was a joke, OK.

Anyway, I have to go. Catch you later!

Assertn

Sat, 02-18-2006, 02:56 PM

The curse seal gives sasuke enhanced speed over his normal weightless speed. He said when he had the 3 pupils, that being able to flow around Naruto's movements was just like when he was using the curse seal. Which means if he used 3 pupils AND the curse seal, then it would become even GREATER than before.

NineTailsKitsu

Sat, 02-18-2006, 05:52 PM

Neiji.

Have fun debating.

darkmetal505

Sat, 02-18-2006, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Neiji.

Have fun debating.

Well please give some evidence for your opinion

NineTailsKitsu

Sun, 02-19-2006, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by: darkmetal505

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Neiji.

Have fun debating.

Well please give some evidence for your opinion

Reading back in this topic, I didn't believe that I needed to state any 'evidence' of my opinion, but since you asked I simply prefer Neji over Sasuke and honestly would love to see that .gif from the game actually happen during the series.

Miss190

Mon, 02-20-2006, 12:06 AM

i think that sasuke would win no matter how much he sucks but i think he would cause naruto beat neji and he was just begining to discover his kyubi powers and sasuke almost beat naruto so its easy to see who would win

Jadugar

Mon, 02-20-2006, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Reading back in this topic, I didn't believe that I needed to state any 'evidence' of my opinion, but since you asked I simply prefer Neji over Sasuke and honestly would love to see that .gif from the game actually happen during the series.

I dont think its humanly possible to read this whole thread from the beginning unless you were there from the start. Also it would make you go insane.

Yes, we all would like to hear your opinions and evidence. Thats the primary reason I didnt make a poll for this thread. Oh another thing, I didnt ask who would you prefer to be your best buddy? My original question was who would survive this battle?

@ xDarkMaster : Did you vote?

NineTailsKitsu

Mon, 02-20-2006, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Reading back in this topic, I didn't believe that I needed to state any 'evidence' of my opinion, but since you asked I simply prefer Neji over Sasuke and honestly would love to see that .gif from the game actually happen during the series.

I dont think its humanly possible to read this whole thread from the beginning unless you were there from the start. Also it would make you go insane.

Yes, we all would like to hear your opinions and evidence. Thats the primary reason I didnt make a poll for this thread. Oh another thing, I didnt ask who would you prefer to be your best buddy? My original question was who would survive this battle?

@ xDarkMaster : Did you vote?

Believe me, It's humanly possible. It's an old habit I picked up from Roleplaying boards, where you needed to read every post prior so that you didn't post something random that fucked up the plot. As for whom I think would win the fight, I've allready stated: Neji. Simply because I don't like to restate the points of others is the reason I haven't posted thorougly in regards to my choice. However, If you insist....

The constant opinion as to why Sasuke would beat Neji is due to Seal lvl 2 and "increase in speed and power", when few of you Sasuke-voters seem to be neglecting the fact that Neji has already defeated a person much more skilled in the use of his Seal and who also was utilizing a style that made heavy plays upon Neji's weakness against Long-Range combat. Sasuke, on the other hand isn't used to his Seal and has a style that puts him into this situation: Puddy in Neji's hands.

As for your claim of Kaiten vs Chidori, or Dragon Flame: You claim that people underestimate Chidori, when it is you who infact underestimates Kaiten. Let's say Sasuke uses Dragon Flame, which Neji counters with Kaiten. To put this into proper understanding, you can try this at home: Take a ball of paper, douse the top of it in a flammable substance and set fire to it. Now, throw this ball of flaming paper into winds of up to 75mph, and watch what happens. After you do that, then you can respond to that arguement. As for the Chidori, someone made a good point earlier in this topic when they said that in comparison Kaiten and Chidori are similar to Rasengan and Chidori. As the two techniques are built on the same principle, only used for different purposes try comparing the use of one versus the other like putting to strong magnets against each other: they repel. Sasuke would attempt to use Chidori on Neji, Neji would counter with Kaiten and the Attack would fizzle, putting Sasuke in close combat and shocked that his attack was thwarted, meaning: 64 strikes, no more chakra. Game, Set, and Match.

Also, don't try the Speed/Power increase arguement, just don't. Sasuke can be as fast or as powerful as he wants, but Byakugan will stop his attacks when used in conjunction with Kaiten, and once he gets close enough, It's simply over.

Now, Add my Vote for Neji.

Jadugar

Mon, 02-20-2006, 05:12 AM

@ NineTailsKitsu : I will respond to your post on Thursday( my day off).

@ xDarkMaster : Still dont know if you voted or not?

Now the long awaited update.........

New votes : anphorus, miss190,darkshadow, NineTailKitsu

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4148/sasuke5uq.jpg........................VS........... ........http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2766/neji6vp.jpg

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 29
[ Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, AssertnFailure,Nests, XanBcoo,coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37,God#2, Strifexgx, Sapphire, Ero-Fan, Deadfire, aznroyale, MASTA-OF-DISASTA, sevyfez, anphorus, miss190 ]

NEJI : 22
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso, Necromas, darkshadow, NineTailKitsu ]

Sapphire

Mon, 02-20-2006, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Reading back in this topic, I didn't believe that I needed to state any 'evidence' of my opinion, but since you asked I simply prefer Neji over Sasuke and honestly would love to see that .gif from the game actually happen during the series.

Totally possible~ I read the whole Uchiha Itachi discussion thread from awile back and that was like 50 pages!

xDarkMaster

Mon, 02-20-2006, 10:33 AM

@ Jad: No I haven't voted yet. Sorry. I vote for Sasuke.

Strider

Mon, 02-20-2006, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Unsustained? I'd think that being as fast as weightless Lee, with the curse seal (not even in level 2 I'd argue) and the sharingan, he'd be fast enough to have the upper hand in hand to hand combat. There are of course the other arguements like whether or not we are counting the filler 128 hakke thing, or whether or not the curse seal provides a way to overcome the blockadge (like Naruto did), that might give Neji more weight however.

And yeah, that NH3 clip is pretty awesome. Neji is so cool in that game.

Haven't seen you around in a while.

I apologize for the confusion, though. I did not mean "Unsustained" in the judicial sense of the word, as in his point was invalid or holding no weight in this conversation.

I meant "Unsustained" in regards to the comparison. He was absolutely correct in saying Sasuke was able to match Rock Lee (still the greatest character ever, by the way) in his unfettered speed. However, it is unsustained speed. Sasuke cannot keep that up for very long at all.

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: Strider
Thank you for the image link. It was beautiful. Nice work, there.

I am still shocked.

I was being sarcastic. Bastard. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Originally posted by: Jadugar
@ Chaoskiddo : You are trespassing. Say something.

Great minds think alike.

Originally posted by: God#2
P.S. The speed of One Tail Kyuubi is alot faster than neji or lee. If: (and Im talking about speed)

Sasuke w/o Curse seal = Lee w/o weights

then Sasuke > Neji's speed

+ Neji has a limited area for which he can use the attack. Did you see that black semicircle he was in when he use that 128 somethingsomething move?

Now:

Kyuubi Naruto > Seal Sasuke

Then 3 Pupil sharingan> Kyuubi naruto

THEN 1 tail Naruto > 3 pupil sharingan

Earlier in this post you made comments in regards to the Zabuza + Kakashi nonsense. I think my cohort Xan' nicely replied, so I'll refrain.

However, you are wrong from your first line. Thus, your hypothetical assessment can only follow suit.

This entire argument is based on pre-time jump. And, pre-time jump there is nothing faster than Lee's speed when performing the Ura Renge.

The speed of Kyuubi-Naruto near the end of the first portion of the series was nowhere at Lee's level.

Try again later.

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
Well please give some evidence for your opinion

We've had many single-word declarations as to the winner, that have been tallied.

Unless you are truly prepared to stand by your decision and possibly be drawn and quartered in the process, those who only have a name to say is fine ..

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Reading back in this topic, I didn't believe that I needed to state any 'evidence' of my opinion ...

Damn straight.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
Yes, we all would like to hear your opinions and evidence. Thats the primary reason I didnt make a poll for this thread. Oh another thing, I didnt ask who would you prefer to be your best buddy? My original question was who would survive this battle?

Seems this thread's direction twists every time someone intelligently votes for Neji.

So, now the question is who would survive? As opposed to the question from twenty pages ago?

Shit, if that is the case we need to start a new scoreboard then, as I believe none of them would.

Originally posted by: xDarkMaster
@ Jad: No I haven't voted yet. Sorry. I vote for Sasuke.

I liked you, even if only for your avatar, until you did that ..

darkmetal505

Mon, 02-20-2006, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Reading back in this topic, I didn't believe that I needed to state any 'evidence' of my opinion, but since you asked I simply prefer Neji over Sasuke and honestly would love to see that .gif from the game actually happen during the series.

I dont think its humanly possible to read this whole thread from the beginning unless you were there from the start. Also it would make you go insane.

Yes, we all would like to hear your opinions and evidence. Thats the primary reason I didnt make a poll for this thread. Oh another thing, I didnt ask who would you prefer to be your best buddy? My original question was who would survive this battle?

@ xDarkMaster : Did you vote?

Believe me, It's humanly possible. It's an old habit I picked up from Roleplaying boards, where you needed to read every post prior so that you didn't post something random that fucked up the plot. As for whom I think would win the fight, I've allready stated: Neji. Simply because I don't like to restate the points of others is the reason I haven't posted thorougly in regards to my choice. However, If you insist....

The constant opinion as to why Sasuke would beat Neji is due to Seal lvl 2 and "increase in speed and power", when few of you Sasuke-voters seem to be neglecting the fact that Neji has already defeated a person much more skilled in the use of his Seal and who also was utilizing a style that made heavy plays upon Neji's weakness against Long-Range combat. Sasuke, on the other hand isn't used to his Seal and has a style that puts him into this situation: Puddy in Neji's hands.

As for your claim of Kaiten vs Chidori, or Dragon Flame: You claim that people underestimate Chidori, when it is you who infact underestimates Kaiten. Let's say Sasuke uses Dragon Flame, which Neji counters with Kaiten. To put this into proper understanding, you can try this at home: Take a ball of paper, douse the top of it in a flammable substance and set fire to it. Now, throw this ball of flaming paper into winds of up to 75mph, and watch what happens. After you do that, then you can respond to that arguement. As for the Chidori, someone made a good point earlier in this topic when they said that in comparison Kaiten and Chidori are similar to Rasengan and Chidori. As the two techniques are built on the same principle, only used for different purposes try comparing the use of one versus the other like putting to strong magnets against each other: they repel. Sasuke would attempt to use Chidori on Neji, Neji would counter with Kaiten and the Attack would fizzle, putting Sasuke in close combat and shocked that his attack was thwarted, meaning: 64 strikes, no more chakra. Game, Set, and Match.

Also, don't try the Speed/Power increase arguement, just don't. Sasuke can be as fast or as powerful as he wants, but Byakugan will stop his attacks when used in conjunction with Kaiten, and once he gets close enough, It's simply over.

Now, Add my Vote for Neji.

You are forgetting that Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning (much stronger and faster than winds of chakra at 75 mph). It would slice through Kaiten like a hot knife through butter.

Speed/Power arguement makes all the difference with the Sharingan (added with third pupil).

Neji's byakugan just sees 360 degrees around him, it doesnt increase his speed of perception. Sasuke was on par with naruto in one-tail kyuubi form when his curse seal was released, which is much faster than your regular day to day battle that Sasuke would fight in.

Im sur Jad will elaborate on some other stuff.

XanBcoo

Mon, 02-20-2006, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
As for your claim of Kaiten vs Chidori, or Dragon Flame: You claim that people underestimate Chidori, when it is you who infact underestimates Kaiten. Let's say Sasuke uses Dragon Flame, which Neji counters with Kaiten. To put this into proper understanding, you can try this at home: Take a ball of paper, douse the top of it in a flammable substance and set fire to it. Now, throw this ball of flaming paper into winds of up to 75mph, and watch what happens. After you do that, then you can respond to that arguement. As for the Chidori, someone made a good point earlier in this topic when they said that in comparison Kaiten and Chidori are similar to Rasengan and Chidori. As the two techniques are built on the same principle, only used for different purposes try comparing the use of one versus the other like putting to strong magnets against each other: they repel. Sasuke would attempt to use Chidori on Neji, Neji would counter with Kaiten and the Attack would fizzle, putting Sasuke in close combat and shocked that his attack was thwarted, meaning: 64 strikes, no more chakra. Game, Set, and Match.
Neji's Kaiten was already defeated/matched in power by a blow (with a kunai, even) from Kyuubi-Naruto. Sasuke's black Chidori is about equal in power to One-Tail Naruto's Kyuubi Rasengan. Earlier in the thread, Vasco made the example of a small stone falling into a river. The stone being Chidori and the river being the Kaiten. The argument goes that the stone would fall through the water, but be carried by the drift of the stream, or possibly not even hit the bottom. The problem with that argument is that the Chidori is no small stone. In reality it would be more like dropping a sack of bricks into a creek. Neji can't defend against that kind of speed and power.

I meant "Unsustained" in regards to the comparison. He was absolutely correct in saying Sasuke was able to match Rock Lee (still the greatest character ever, by the way) in his unfettered speed. However, it is unsustained speed. Sasuke cannot keep that up for very long at all.
That's where the curse seal comes in.

Strider

Mon, 02-20-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
You are forgetting that Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning (much stronger and faster than winds of chakra at 75 mph). It would slice through Kaiten like a hot knife through butter.

There isn't even an acronym created for how hard I am laughing at this, right now. I am going to have to spend the afternoon concocting one.

I said concoct.

So, Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning? Wow. Yes, I am still laughing. Sorry.

I am guessing you have never heard of folklore, or those stories that get passed down. And, of course as the recipient of the story decides to retell it, something new is always going to be added.

Not to break it to you, but I'm putting "Kakashi cutting through a lightning bolt .." in the category of "Spicy Revision on Story No. 69."

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
Im sur Jad will elaborate on some other stuff.

Only if we're lucky .. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

darkmetal505

Mon, 02-20-2006, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
You are forgetting that Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning (much stronger and faster than winds of chakra at 75 mph). It would slice through Kaiten like a hot knife through butter.

There isn't even an acronym created for how hard I am laughing at this, right now. I am going to have to spend the afternoon concocting one.

I said concoct.

So, Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning? Wow. Yes, I am still laughing. Sorry.

I am guessing you have never heard of folklore, or those stories that get passed down. And, of course as the recipient of the story decides to retell it, something new is always going to be added.

Not to break it to you, but I'm putting "Kakashi cutting through a lightning bolt .." in the category of "Spicy Revision on Story No. 69."

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
Im sur Jad will elaborate on some other stuff.

Only if we're lucky ..

besides the fact it was explictly said in the anime during sasuke vs gaara....

Sapphire

Mon, 02-20-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
You are forgetting that Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning (much stronger and faster than winds of chakra at 75 mph). It would slice through Kaiten like a hot knife through butter.

There isn't even an acronym created for how hard I am laughing at this, right now. I am going to have to spend the afternoon concocting one.

I said concoct.

So, Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning? Wow. Yes, I am still laughing. Sorry.

I am guessing you have never heard of folklore, or those stories that get passed down. And, of course as the recipient of the story decides to retell it, something new is always going to be added.

Not to break it to you, but I'm putting "Kakashi cutting through a lightning bolt .." in the category of "Spicy Revision on Story No. 69."

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
Im sur Jad will elaborate on some other stuff.

Only if we're lucky ..

During the Chuunin exams, in the stadium thingy, n a serious tone Gai said that Chidori was the only skill the Kakashi ever made.. that he once cut through lightning with it. I think Kakashi was right next to him, and he didn't disagree..

darkmetal505

Mon, 02-20-2006, 04:17 PM

correct, also Chidori's other name is "Lightning Edge"

XanBcoo

Mon, 02-20-2006, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by: Strider
Not to break it to you, but I'm putting "Kakashi cutting through a lightning bolt .." in the category of "Spicy Revision on Story No. 69."

I agree. The cutting-through-lightning story might not be true. But whether or not that story is true doesn't change the argument that the Chidori would easily be able to break through a Kaiten. It's an unreliable defense against Sasuke using the Curse Seal:

In reality it would be more like dropping a sack of bricks into a creek. Neji can't defend against that kind of speed and power.
Also, don't forget that Sasuke has a pretty damn good defense too. Those wings popped out quickly enough to block an attack from One-Tail Naruto, so Sasuke isn't totally defenseless either. Once again, he's also got the 3-pupil Sharingan to perceive Neji's movements.

NineTailsKitsu

Mon, 02-20-2006, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

Originally posted by: Strider
Not to break it to you, but I'm putting "Kakashi cutting through a lightning bolt .." in the category of "Spicy Revision on Story No. 69."

I agree. The cutting-through-lightning story might not be true. But whether or not that story is true doesn't change the argument that the Chidori would easily be able to break through a Kaiten. It's an unreliable defense against Sasuke using the Curse Seal:

In reality it would be more like dropping a sack of bricks into a creek. Neji can't defend against that kind of speed and power.
Also, don't forget that Sasuke has a pretty damn good defense too. Those wings popped out quickly enough to block an attack from One-Tail Naruto, so Sasuke isn't totally defenseless either. Once again, he's also got the 3-pupil Sharingan to perceive Neji's movements.

I'm still finding it amusing that you Sasuke fans simply revert back to the same points you've been saying since the beginning of the thread once a point of value has been posted. You make unfounded points using hype from the show about a technique that hasn't been tested against something else.

Your major downfall Is that your comparing the fight between Neji and Sasuke to Sasuke/Naruto, that's a very big mistake. Naruto, even in Kyubi form is fundamentally still using the same style: Lunge, strike, Rasengan, Kage Bunshin. That's Naruto in a nutshell. Neji is a completely differen't fighter, and not prone to leaving himself open, or making foolish advances on a foe. Now, I know what your going to say: "But Naruto beat Neji already!", yes you are correct. However, figure in the element of suprise of Naruto's Kyubi power (Which Neji had never even heard of at this point), and also take into account that this fight was a plot device to "open up Neji's heart" and push the star of the show to higher fandom.

In contrast, Neji (by the point were talking about) already has knowledge of Demonic Seals, Kyubi, Chidori...Etc. And has been training non-stop to improve upon his weaknesses. Neji isnt the kind of person to lose to Naruto and not analyze why he lost, it's just not in his character. He would analyze that fight over and over and over and over again until he had a proper counterattack into Setup for Naruto. Not to mention, his new knowledge of Demon Seals places him into an even better vantage point against Sasuke, who like Naruto fundamentally hasn't changed his style at all.

Chidori can cut through lightning? Ridiculous and Laughable. Chidori can cut through Lightning but not Rasengan? Or even a large tub of water(forgot about that huh?)? Lol. You guys are funny. Come up with something new, please.

XanBcoo

Mon, 02-20-2006, 06:07 PM

NineTailsKitsu:

1. I'm a Neji fan, not a Sasuke fan. I do believe, however, that Neji would meet his match in this fight.
2. All the points I'm reverting to are valid. The Neji supporters are doing much the same thing in this thread, that is, bringing up valid counter arguments when an argument is made in favor of the other side. The fact is, in this fight, there's not a lot to go off of. We haven't seen any of these techniques used on each other before, so we're using other examples as a gauge (ie. Black Chidori broke through One-Tail Kyuubi-Rasengan; which is more powerful than Kyuubi-Naruto, which is about equal to the force of the Kaiten; this is true in terms of raw power and speed, as well). In that case, Sasuke seems to have more going for him. He has a strong defense like Neji (the wings), is faster, stronger, and can perceive Neji's attacks. These are all the points that spring to mind when I say "Sasuke would beat Neji" and I'm going to repeat them because it's the only evidence available in terms of technique.

As for Sasuke's style and intelligence, he hasn't just beat Naruto. He's a genious Ninja and the best in his class. He's got excellent analytical skills as well. So if you can say "Neji would figure Sasuke out" then I will say "Sasuke would figure Neji out."

Also, I know not of this knowledge of Demon Seals that you speak of. Perhaps it's post-time jump material, in which case is not valid in this argument.

darkmetal505

Mon, 02-20-2006, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

Originally posted by: Strider
Not to break it to you, but I'm putting "Kakashi cutting through a lightning bolt .." in the category of "Spicy Revision on Story No. 69."

I agree. The cutting-through-lightning story might not be true. But whether or not that story is true doesn't change the argument that the Chidori would easily be able to break through a Kaiten. It's an unreliable defense against Sasuke using the Curse Seal:

In reality it would be more like dropping a sack of bricks into a creek. Neji can't defend against that kind of speed and power.
Also, don't forget that Sasuke has a pretty damn good defense too. Those wings popped out quickly enough to block an attack from One-Tail Naruto, so Sasuke isn't totally defenseless either. Once again, he's also got the 3-pupil Sharingan to perceive Neji's movements.

I'm still finding it amusing that you Sasuke fans simply revert back to the same points you've been saying since the beginning of the thread once a point of value has been posted. You make unfounded points using hype from the show about a technique that hasn't been tested against something else.

Your major downfall Is that your comparing the fight between Neji and Sasuke to Sasuke/Naruto, that's a very big mistake. Naruto, even in Kyubi form is fundamentally still using the same style: Lunge, strike, Rasengan, Kage Bunshin. That's Naruto in a nutshell. Neji is a completely differen't fighter, and not prone to leaving himself open, or making foolish advances on a foe. Now, I know what your going to say: "But Naruto beat Neji already!", yes you are correct. However, figure in the element of suprise of Naruto's Kyubi power (Which Neji had never even heard of at this point), and also take into account that this fight was a plot device to "open up Neji's heart" and push the star of the show to higher fandom.

In contrast, Neji (by the point were talking about) already has knowledge of Demonic Seals, Kyubi, Chidori...Etc. And has been training non-stop to improve upon his weaknesses. Neji isnt the kind of person to lose to Naruto and not analyze why he lost, it's just not in his character. He would analyze that fight over and over and over and over again until he had a proper counterattack into Setup for Naruto. Not to mention, his new knowledge of Demon Seals places him into an even better vantage point against Sasuke, who like Naruto fundamentally hasn't changed his style at all.

Chidori can cut through lightning? Ridiculous and Laughable. Chidori can cut through Lightning but not Rasengan? Or even a large tub of water(forgot about that huh?)? Lol. You guys are funny. Come up with something new, please.

Its true that Neji has knowledge of a curse seal, but not how each user uses it.

The reason we relate the fight between Naruto and Sasuke to Sasuke and Neji is because
1) thats the only fight weve seen sasuke's true curse seal power
2) not because naruto beat neji, therfore sasuke can bet neji, but because of the magnitude of the battle. If sasuke can hold up against kyuubi naruto (who is now even being tough for orochimaru to handle), Im pretty sure he can hold up to neji.

About chidori cutting through lightning? ITS IN THE FREAKING ANIME. Ive said it before. Its not something I pulled out of my ass. Ask kishimoto if you dont believe us.

Oh yea, the reason we use previous points is because we have to pull evidence out of somewhere right? You do the same. We all know that Neji is a genius and trains to overcome his weakness. Sasuke, however, is a force he has not reckoned with yet.

Dug88

Mon, 02-20-2006, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
NineTailsKitsu:
As for Sasuke's style and intelligence, he hasn't just beat Naruto. He's a genious Ninja and the best in his class. He's got excellent analytical skills as well. So if you can say "Neji would figure Sasuke out" then I will say "Sasuke would figure Neji out."

Well I'm not a fan of either Neji or Sasuke but I have to say Neji would win.
You say Sasuke's a genious ninja but so is Neji he was the top of his class as a student and was the top genin before the Chunnin exam.

Strider

Mon, 02-20-2006, 06:41 PM

Close to five hundred replies, with only a near hundred views?

I must be missing something ..

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

Originally posted by: Strider
I meant "Unsustained" in regards to the comparison. He was absolutely correct in saying Sasuke was able to match Rock Lee (still the greatest character ever, by the way) in his unfettered speed. However, it is unsustained speed. Sasuke cannot keep that up for very long at all.
That's where the curse seal comes in.

You guys are all aiming to make me laugh, now. I'm sure that's your plan. Humor me into submission.

Sasuke can hold Lee's speed, just about as long as he can remain in an unreleased Seal mode.

Originally posted by: Sapphire
During the Chuunin exams, in the stadium thingy, n a serious tone Gai said that Chidori was the only skill the Kakashi ever made.. that he once cut through lightning with it. I think Kakashi was right next to him, and he didn't disagree..

Because Kakashi has always been known to give Gai his full attention and respond to his idiocy?

Gai in a serious tone?

This is the same serious Jounin, who in a serious tone, pulled Lee aside prior to his preliminary match to seriously inform him that Gaara's gourd seemed suspicious in a serious way.

You're seriously not selling this one. Seriously.

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
correct, also Chidori's other name is "Lightning Edge"

This other name could not possibly come from the correlation of their appearance, could it?

I mean, the thunderous sound and crackling could not possibly have anything to do with it.

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Chidori can cut through lightning? Ridiculous and Laughable. Chidori can cut through Lightning but not Rasengan? Or even a large tub of water(forgot about that huh?)? Lol. You guys are funny. Come up with something new, please.

While I laughed at this, in the hopes of keeping some of the redundant Sasuke fans from trespassing, I'll post their rebuttal to save them the time of bothering:

"That was all before the third pupil Sharingan and Cursel Seal .."

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
1. I'm a Neji fan, not a Sasuke fan ...

And, that's why you're still on my Christmas Card List.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
2. All the points I'm reverting to are valid. The Neji supporters are doing much the same thing in this thread, that is, bringing up valid counter arguments when an argument is made in favor of the other side. The fact is, in this fight, there's not a lot to go off of. We haven't seen any of these techniques used on each other before, so we're using other examples as a gauge (ie. Black Chidori broke through One-Tail Kyuubi-Rasengan; which is more powerful than Kyuubi-Naruto, which is about equal to the force of the Kaiten; this is true in terms of raw power and speed, as well). In that case, Sasuke seems to have more going for him. He has a strong defense like Neji (the wings), is faster, stronger, and can perceive Neji's attacks. These are all the points that spring to mind when I say "Sasuke would beat Neji" and I'm going to repeat them because it's the only evidence available in terms of technique.

Slow down, partner. Before you stumble over another contradiction.

We have not seen any of these techniques used against one another, thus none of your points are validated by facts, as we're gathering data from outside battles as support.

In regards to your example, Sasuke's Chidori did not break through Naruto's Rasengan. The two, almost in an exact sense of how people expect the result of a Chidor v. Kaiten collision, crashed into one another, then quite possibly due to the friction or momentum of the Rasengan's swirling nature, caused the two to continue onward -- Naruto's being flung towards Sasuke's headband, and the Chidori towards Naruto's heart / shoulder.

If you want to see break through, see Ichigo's Bankai break through Byakuya's final attack, when they were dueling. In Byakuya's recollection of those final moments, you see Ichigo's weapon actually break through his blade, causing it to dissipate into the pink petals of death we all know and love. That's breaking through ..

I still do not believe Sasuke would see Neji's Rokujuu Yonshou. It is a Bloodline Ability. This cannot be read or traced by the Sharingan. I don't care how people broke it down in previous posts, it's a Bloodline Ability. If it were simply precise placement of chakra, anyone with chakra could have replicated it. Kakashi was watching Neji's match. Hyuuga heirs have had other teachers. If it were as simple as previous posters' breakdown, it would not be a sole technique to Konoha's noble family.

Neji is also able to project chakra from every pore on his body, in varying amounts, with numerous effects, such as affecting the trajectory of a direct assault, like say .. the Chidori.

Sasuke's wings, as gay as they were, are an extension of him. Something like an arm or leg. While there are no organs within them, I am sure blood travels through them, as well as some form of chakra pathway at the very least. One touch is all that is needed. Just one.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Also, I know not of this knowledge of Demon Seals that you speak of. Perhaps it's post-time jump material, in which case is not valid in this argument.

I was lost here, as well.

We're not including anything after the end of the first portion of the series. (~Episode 137 or so..)

Even so .. Neji knows about Demon Seals? I didn't think any of the Genin did.

NineTailsKitsu

Mon, 02-20-2006, 08:19 PM

I was referring to Neji's fight vs the Spider Archer (forgotten his name) as his knowledge of Demon Seals, or atleast a vague understanding of it. It's more than nothing.

XanBcoo

Tue, 02-21-2006, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by: Strider
You guys are all aiming to make me laugh, now. I'm sure that's your plan. Humor me into submission.

Sasuke can hold Lee's speed, just about as long as he can remain in an unreleased Seal mode.
.
This much is true, but keep in mind when the seal is activated, it boosts the users strength and speed. Meaning Sasuke could maintain Lee's speed for a given time (granted, not very long), but then activate the first level of the seal when he can't sustain that speed any longer, become even stronger and faster for a period of time, and finally activate the 2nd level, which grants more than enough power to overcome Neji. I'll reiterate what I said way back in this thread, and that is there would be no clear cut winner in the fight. Sasuke can't maintain the power of the curse seal, yet it would be enough to overcome Neji's defenses in the amount of time he activates it for.

Originally posted by: Strider

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Chidori can cut through lightning? Ridiculous and Laughable. Chidori can cut through Lightning but not Rasengan? Or even a large tub of water(forgot about that huh?)? Lol. You guys are funny. Come up with something new, please.
While I laughed at this, in the hopes of keeping some of the redundant Sasuke fans from trespassing, I'll post their rebuttal to save them the time of bothering:

"That was all before the third pupil Sharingan and Cursel Seal .."

There's no more redundance in the Sasuke supporters' arguments than in the Neji supporters'. In any case, the 3-pupil Sharingan has not much to do with the power of the Chidori (save for getting rid of the blind spot due to the great speed), I know that. But about the water tank...I'm quite sure Sasuke "cut" through it just fine. His arm was lodged in a shredded hole inside it, meaning that he cut through it. Follow? It didn't go out the back (like the Rasengan) because the range of the Chidori is only equal to the range of the user's reach. Sasuke was thrown into the water tank, ripped through it with his hand, and came to a stop because of the force of the rest of the tank on his body. The Rasengan exploded the tank out the back because it does a different type of damage. The water tank argument does not detract at all from the power or effectiveness of the Chidori at all.

Originally posted by: Strider
In regards to your example, Sasuke's Chidori did not break through Naruto's Rasengan. The two, almost in an exact sense of how people expect the result of a Chidor v. Kaiten collision, crashed into one another, then quite possibly due to the friction or momentum of the Rasengan's swirling nature, caused the two to continue onward -- Naruto's being flung towards Sasuke's headband, and the Chidori towards Naruto's heart / shoulder.
That's pretty much how I understood it to have happened too. I was merely referring to the fact that Sasuke's Chidori was able to overcome and defeat an attack by Naruto using the Rasengan in some way or another. But if you want to get techincal, then I could point out that when the two attacks collided, and the final blows were dealt, Sasuke still had his Chidori activated and punched Naruto with it, whereas Naruto's Kyuubi-Rasengan seemed to have vanished and he whacked Sasuke's head protector with his claws. It was almost as if the Rasengan had been dissipated.

Originally posted by: Strider
Sasuke's wings, as gay as they were, are an extension of him. Something like an arm or leg. While there are no organs within them, I am sure blood travels through them, as well as some form of chakra pathway at the very least. One touch is all that is needed. Just one.

Where is this "one touch anywhere on the body from Jyuuken is an instant kill" argument coming from? I was lead to believe that the internal organs had to be directly affected in order for any vital damage to be done. Hence why fatal Jyuuken strikes all seem to be directed towards the chest area (or directly into the body, in the case of Kidomaru and his web). My memory's fuzzy, but I beleive Hinata was attacked with a strike from Jyuuken, and survived just fine. I also recall Naruto being hit with a Jyuuken strike as well as the 64 hakke attack, and not dying. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am. The Hakke Rokuju Yonsho is a method of stopping one's flow of Chakra, not killing (arguably, Sasuke could recover from its effects with the power of the curse seal - but really, this is unknown, so I'll accept it as a moot point). So provided that a Jyuuken strike anywhere else on the body except directly to the internal organs (or an attack on the chest) is not fatal, the worst Neji could do to Sasuke would be to mess up his wings a little. Perhaps he might not be able to use them to fly as fast, or possibly not block again, but the wings are still a good defense imo. Those and the Sharingan-vision provide pretty effective defenses from Neji's attacks.

I still do not believe Sasuke would see Neji's Rokujuu Yonshou. It is a Bloodline Ability. This cannot be read or traced by the Sharingan. I don't care how people broke it down in previous posts, it's a Bloodline Ability. If it were simply precise placement of chakra, anyone with chakra could have replicated it. Kakashi was watching Neji's match. Hyuuga heirs have had other teachers. If it were as simple as previous posters' breakdown, it would not be a sole technique to Konoha's noble family.
I disagree, and can tell you the Rokujuu Yonsho is just an attack used in conjunction with the bloodline limit: Byakugan. The whole Jyuuken style revolves around being able to precisely control one's chakra, so yes, I'd say that anyone with good chakra control could use it if they really tried. It wouldn't do any good though, because the Byakugan is needed to see the correct targets for this type of style. That is, the inner chakra system. This is why only the Hyuuga use it. As far as Sasuke goes, because it is a unique attack that uses chakra, I think he'd be able to see its movements, much like he saw Kyuubi-Naruto's movements.

And, that's why you're still on my Christmas Card List.
I'm looking forward to Christmas now i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif. It's also good to have you back in this thread. Not much argument going on before you came back.

Jadugar

Tue, 02-21-2006, 07:02 AM

I leave you all kids alone for one day and you make a big mess.
Unfortunately I dont have the time to post in detail. I will elaborate on all of your posts in detail on Thursday. Thats my day off. In the mean time have fun but remember big brother is watching.

@ Strider :

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/778/bastard5rg.jpg
Welcome back from the dead. Looking forward to have some decent conservation. Meanwhile stay off that laughing gas, too much of it can kill you.

I leave you in good company of Xan.

Anyway, got to go.

P.S God dammit, my Smallville season 3 torrent just finished. I was hoping to watch that on Thursday.

NineTailsKitsu

Tue, 02-21-2006, 07:07 AM

I still find your Chidori arguement to be unfounded, but that's mostly do to the fact that: We've seen what happens when Chidori is used against Rasengan, but we haven't seen what happens when Chidori is used against Kaiten. BTW, you realized my point of the water tank without realizing it. Rasengan and Chidori are similar moves, in that they control they're chakra into a weapon: Rasengan manipulates the chakra by condenscing it into a "swirl", while Chidori becomes like a cutting instrument.

Sasuke was thrown into the water tank, ripped through it with his hand, and came to a stop because of the force of the rest of the tank on his body.

That's right, now take into account that Kaiten manipulates Chakra just like Chidori and Rasengan, but for a differen't purpose. Compare Sasuke's body stopping arm's length in the tank, to Sasuke's attack stopping short of actually Hitting Neji IF he managed to puncture through Kaiten. Again, Sasuke would be caught off guard, and...Well I'm not going to repeat my self on that possibility.

BTW, as for your Hinata/Neji example of Jyuuken.......The reason why Hinata didn't die from her injuries (though she was extremely fucked up from them) is because Neji didn't want to kill her, this would be entirely different in a Demon Seal Sasuke vs Neji fight, were Neji would know he'd have to fight for his life.

The Heretic Azazel

Tue, 02-21-2006, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by: Jadugar
I leave you all kids alone for one day and you make a big mess.
Unfortunately I dont have the time to post in detail. I will elaborate on all of your posts in detail on Thursday. Thats my day off. In the mean time have fun but remember big brother is watching.

@ Strider :

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/778/bastard5rg.jpg
Welcome back from the dead. Looking forward to have some decent conservation. Meanwhile stay off that laughing gas, too much of it can kill you.

I leave you in good company of Xan.

Anyway, got to go.

P.S God dammit, my Smallville season 3 torrent just finished. I was hoping to watch that on Thursday.

Haha Smallville. Sorry Jad you completely cancelled out all your logical statements in this thread saying something like that.

Smallville fans are Sasuke loving bitches!

Strider

Tue, 02-21-2006, 12:29 PM

Ooh, I have so much to say, but it shall have to wait until this evening.

I am currently at work, with about fifteen minutes before our blocker prevents this site from being accessed. And, that is clearly not enough time to meticulously dissect Xan's post.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
Meanwhile stay off that laughing gas, too much of it can kill you.

Your minions amuse me. What can I say?

Outro.

XanBcoo

Tue, 02-21-2006, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
That's right, now take into account that Kaiten manipulates Chakra just like Chidori and Rasengan, but for a differen't purpose. Compare Sasuke's body stopping arm's length in the tank, to Sasuke's attack stopping short of actually Hitting Neji IF he managed to puncture through Kaiten. Again, Sasuke would be caught off guard, and...Well I'm not going to repeat my self on that possibility.

BTW, as for your Hinata/Neji example of Jyuuken.......The reason why Hinata didn't die from her injuries (though she was extremely fucked up from them) is because Neji didn't want to kill her, this would be entirely different in a Demon Seal Sasuke vs Neji fight, were Neji would know he'd have to fight for his life.

I suppose for that first point, I naturally assume that when the chakra in the Kaiten is disrupted enough, it breaks the Kaiten. This happens both when he was attacked by Naruto during the chuunin exam, and also in the Narutimett Hero games (this is not evidence, it just adds to my assumption). I'll wait for Strider's responses to my previous argument.

Also, Neji was going to kill Hinata. He had to be stopped by the rest of the Jounin to prevent him from doing some serious damage. This is back when he was asshole-Neji. In any case, my point is still the same. Jyuuken doesn't work in a "one hit anywhere on the body is an instant kill" way.

darkmetal505

Wed, 02-22-2006, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by: Strider
Because Kakashi has always been known to give Gai his full attention and respond to his idiocy?

Gai in a serious tone?

This is the same serious Jounin, who in a serious tone, pulled Lee aside prior to his preliminary match to seriously inform him that Gaara's gourd seemed suspicious in a serious way.

You're seriously not selling this one. Seriously.

They wouldnt put a jackass as a Jounin. Why would Gai pull out something ridiculous as "it cut through lightning" (by the way, all the "idiotic" remarks are usually accompanied by the nice guy pose or some stance, which wasnt the case in this remark).

If your not willing to accept it, I'll post screenshots

Originally posted by: Strider

Your minions amuse me. What can I say?

your lack of weenie amuses me

Strider

Wed, 02-22-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
This much is true, but keep in mind when the seal is activated, it boosts the users strength and speed. Meaning Sasuke could maintain Lee's speed for a given time (granted, not very long), but then activate the first level of the seal when he can't sustain that speed any longer, become even stronger and faster for a period of time, and finally activate the 2nd level, which grants more than enough power to overcome Neji.

Popping some speed or crack, when you're already tired or beatdown is not going to make you feel any better about previous ailments.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
In any case, the 3-pupil Sharingan has not much to do with the power of the Chidori (save for getting rid of the blind spot due to the great speed), I know that.

You know that, and I know that.

You know that I know that we're all knowing of what we know about that.

They don't know anything, though.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
But about the water tank...I'm quite sure Sasuke "cut" through it just fine. His arm was lodged in a shredded hole inside it, meaning that he cut through it. Follow? It didn't go out the back (like the Rasengan) because the range of the Chidori is only equal to the range of the user's reach. Sasuke was thrown into the water tank, ripped through it with his hand, and came to a stop because of the force of the rest of the tank on his body. The Rasengan exploded the tank out the back because it does a different type of damage. The water tank argument does not detract at all from the power or effectiveness of the Chidori at all.

I believe the water tank argument does detract the effectiveness of the Chidori against Kaiten.

You stated yourself that the Chidori's reach is merely as long as the caster's full extension of their arm. In this case, this is the length of Sasuke's arm. I won't bother trying to imagine how long Sasuke's arm is, because despite how long his arms are, it is not long enough to strike Neji. And, this is given the benefit of penetrating the Heavenly Whirl to begin with.

Sasuke penetrates Kaiten, which projects from Neji at about two to three meters, with his uber Chidori. Unable to reach, his arm is now lodged within this rotating dome of fairly solid energy. It is only a moment before Sasuke is also caught within the momentum of the vortex, and consequently flung away.

I almost think of Gaara's Sphere of Sand, which was smaller than Kaiten. Sasuke's arm was stuck with in it. It would not have been so pleasant has that sphere been constantly spinning and spiralling about.

On another note, Naruto's entire body was enveloped within the Kyuubi's chakra, which is later revealed to completely protect him (and harm) at the same time, when disrupting Neji's Kaiten. The constant resistance from all sides, against Kaiten which was spinning from all sides, is what caused the stalemate. Sasuke is not as fortunate to have access to something of that nature.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
That's pretty much how I understood it to have happened too. I was merely referring to the fact that Sasuke's Chidori was able to overcome and defeat an attack by Naruto using the Rasengan in some way or another. But if you want to get techincal, then I could point out that when the two attacks collided, and the final blows were dealt, Sasuke still had his Chidori activated and punched Naruto with it, whereas Naruto's Kyuubi-Rasengan seemed to have vanished and he whacked Sasuke's head protector with his claws. It was almost as if the Rasengan had been dissipated.

Actually, if you would like to get technical, the Rasengan went across Sasuke's forehead protector. It did not go into his head, as the Chidori went into Naruto's shoulder / heart area. With nothing for the Rasengan to connect with and show off it's effects, it is expected for it to seem to dissipate as it did not truly collide with anything.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Where is this "one touch anywhere on the body from Jyuuken is an instant kill" argument coming from?

I'm not sure, as I never said something in those words or to that extent.

One hit is all Neji needs to take control of the match, and it does not even need to be a direct hit.

See "Neji v. Hinata" and "Neji v. Kidoumaru" for further evidence of this.

I'll elaborate what I mean in further detail in a later post, if requested or required.

In addition, while I never said it before, I will now: I only believe it takes one strike to kill.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
My memory's fuzzy, but I beleive Hinata was attacked with a strike from Jyuuken, and survived just fine. I also recall Naruto being hit with a Jyuuken strike as well as the 64 hakke attack, and not dying. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am.

Your memory serves you correctly. They were both struck with Jyuuken assaults and did not die.

However, this is because Neji was not trying to kill them. When Neji did decide to attempt to kill Hinata, it was going to be one final blow -- most likely similar to the final blow within that Ougi .gif someone posted earlier. I also assess it was one final blow due to the firm stance Neji was in, with merely one hand extended, while the other arm laid languidly behind him.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
The Hakke Rokuju Yonsho is a method of stopping one's flow of Chakra, not killing (arguably, Sasuke could recover from its effects with the power of the curse seal - but really, this is unknown, so I'll accept it as a moot point).

I disagree.

Stopping one's chakra flow is the only method we have seen it utilized for.

It's been stated that with Jyuuken, you can regulate an opponent's chakra with its touch -- be it increasing the amount of chakra they are forced to use, or shutting it down, rendering them unable to use any.

Why do you believe it is possible for Sasuke's Seal to allow him to recover from having his chakra points sealed / stopped?

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
I disagree, and can tell you the Rokujuu Yonsho is just an attack used in conjunction with the bloodline limit: Byakugan. The whole Jyuuken style revolves around being able to precisely control one's chakra, so yes, I'd say that anyone with good chakra control could use it if they really tried. It wouldn't do any good though, because the Byakugan is needed to see the correct targets for this type of style. That is, the inner chakra system. This is why only the Hyuuga use it. As far as Sasuke goes, because it is a unique attack that uses chakra, I think he'd be able to see its movements, much like he saw Kyuubi-Naruto's movements.

So, the Sharingan is not really a Bloodline Limit, as anyone properly watching the seals can then copy a Ninjutsu or Genjutsu technique, no?

Kakashi was watching Haku, and the ability used in conjunction with his Bloodline Limit was unable to be copied, the Demon Ice Mirrors.

Due to that I believe even the abilities "used in conjunction," that you don't classify as Bloodline techniques, cannot be copied or read as easily as regular jutsu.

Also, the technique only uses chakra as it connects with the desired point, as it isn't something required to gather, it is merely released from the pores.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
It's also good to have you back in this thread. Not much argument going on before you came back.

Many thanks. Work and City of Villains though, is where I've been. Damn game has me hooked to an IV.

Also, your post in response to Kitsu's is somewhat addressed in points above. No need to reiterate, unless you make me .. i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
They wouldnt put a jackass as a Jounin. Why would Gai pull out something ridiculous as "it cut through lightning" (by the way, all the "idiotic" remarks are usually accompanied by the nice guy pose or some stance, which wasnt the case in this remark).

Last I checked, most of the rank tests are based on skill, not personality traits or a lack thereof. If this were the case, I'm doubting Hayate with his disease or Orochimaru would have been promoted.

Why? Because the story has been exaggerated to increase Kakashi's hype and fame. It is a story.

As for the idiotic remarks, it was quite stupid of Gai to have not noticed the suspicious gourd, and there was no pose or twinkling teeth thereafter.

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
your lack of weenie amuses me

And, I shall call him .. Sai.

Jadugar

Thu, 02-23-2006, 02:13 PM

FOR STRIDERS EYES ONLY

@ Strider :

NOTE : All the quotes I used are yours.

Seems this thread's direction twists every time someone intelligently votes for Neji. So, now the question is who would survive? As opposed to the question from twenty pages ago?

I think you missed the first page and it was updated a long time ago for the new users and to tell them to stay away from one-liner and to show them the updated score board. Surviving/winning doesnt really effect the current discussion.

So, Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning? Wow. Yes, I am still laughing. Sorry.I am guessing you have never heard of folklore, or those stories that get passed down. And, of course as the recipient of the story decides to retell it, something new is always going to be added.

Its my turn to laugh.

Folklore? Myths?

I think they are passed down by generations. Gai and Kakashi are in the same generation.

Close to five hundred replies, with only a near hundred views?

I think thats a new feature.

Whats all this you and your minions not believing Gai?

This is the same Jounin who trained Neji. Maybe we shouldnt be taking Neji seriously as well. Gai is one of respected Jounin there is. Not believing whats he says about his rival Kakashi is absurd. He would know his rival capabilities than anyone else.

And some one who doesnt believe that Chidori cant break through lightening shouldnt been quoting what he saw in BLEACH where people can block bankai with their bare hands.

I still do not believe Sasuke would see Neji's Rokujuu Yonshou. It is a Bloodline Ability. This cannot be read or traced by the Sharingan. I don't care how people broke it down in previous posts, it's a Bloodline Ability. If it were simply precise placement of chakra, anyone with chakra could have replicated it. Kakashi was watching Neji's match. Hyuuga heirs have had other teachers. If it were as simple as previous posters' breakdown, it would not be a sole technique to Konoha's noble family.

OMG

Get a grip Strider. Denial is not the way. Do you know what comes after denial? Acceptance.

You denying facts do not mean that they arent true.

How many times to we have to explain Neji's every move.

I havent broken down this technique so here it is. Listen!

Hakke Rokujuyon Sho (Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms)

The whole point of using this technique is to close opponent's "tenketsu". Not everyone is able to "see" those tenketus. Thats where Neji's Byakugan comes in handy. The move itself is NOT a Blood line limit, it is executed in conjunction with Byakugan. Also this move requires precise placement of chakra. As you said its simply precise placement of chakra but you need to know where to put it. Its like having a loaded gun but dont know where the target is. Byakugan is essential for the execution of this jutsu.

This should clear up things.

As for your argument of Sasuke not seeing this move becomes invalid.

Hyuga clan has been practicing their taijutsu style, Juken (Gentle Fist) for generations thats why they are the best and are one of the noble families but nobody other than Hyuga clan can COPY this move because they dont have the basic necessary tool, Byakugan, to begin with.

The move itself is taijutsu. So Sasuke CAN break it down.

Sasuke penetrates Kaiten, which projects from Neji at about two to three meters, with his uber Chidori. Unable to reach, his arm is now lodged within this rotating dome of fairly solid energy. It is only a moment before Sasuke is also caught within the momentum of the vortex, and consequently flung away.

Ahhh. Hakkeshou Kaiten.

I can almost forgive all of you for thinking thats a Bloodline limit as well.
Well you are WRONG. All of Neji's moves are combined with his extra special ability to control and placement of chakra. Only Hyuga clan has mastered this technique. I will say this again Byakugan aids them greatly in executing nearly all their moves.

What is Kaiten?

Its an advanced taijutsu passed down the Hyuga clan. Neji mastered this technique on his own despite not being in the main family.

How does it work?

Neji spinning around aimlessly in his "dancing red shoes".

It uses a solid amount of chakra expelled from the Whole body - as opposed to precise bursts from only specific parts of the body creating a bubble like vortex around him. It pushes outward with the same force as the outward attacks.

I would say its a waste of chakra compare to Chidori which concentrate gathering all of the chakra at a single point.

Now would you say Neji has more chakra than Sasuke or vice versa?

For the argument sake, lets say, Neji chakra = Sasuke chakra.

So lets play along with your scenario. Sasuke heading towards Neji with his Chidori while he is doing Kaiten.

Now Sasuke has gathered all his chakra in his hand and he pierces Kaiten at one point - that point has less chakra because Neji has divided his whole chakra around him to create a vortex/ bubble. So the spot where Sasuke touches with his Chidori will create a hole and will go through his Kaiten bringing his Kaiten to a halt and causing serious damage to Neji. Now image if Cursed seal gave Sasuke and his Chidori more chakra than Neji what will happen to the Hyuga genius. A can think of only one thing. An unavoidable death. R.I.P.

I hear those giggles have stopped.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Haha Smallville. Sorry Jad you completely cancelled out all your logical statements in this thread saying something like that.

You fool. How dare you call me a Samllville fan?

I am the last son of Kryptonia and I will rule you all mortals. I am god among men (read fags if you voted for Neji). Not even "Azazel" can save you from my anger.

I am more of a LOST (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=17365&enterthrea d=y) fan than Smallville. Then comes 24.

Now I am off to see more of Smallville. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Jadugar

Thu, 02-23-2006, 02:22 PM

Sorry about the double post..............

@ NineSomething :

Reading back in this topic, I didn't believe that I needed to state any 'evidence' of my opinion ...

That tends to happen when you are biased.

In a galaxy far away, nearly 5 months ago two people ( Strider + Jadugar ) disagreed as to who would win in a fight between Neji and Sasuke. So we decided to make a thread and ask other people for their opinion. That was the only solution left.

Would you care to look at the updated score?

The constant opinion as to why Sasuke would beat Neji is due to Seal lvl 2 and "increase in speed and power", when few of you Sasuke-voters seem to be neglecting the fact that Neji has already defeated a person much more skilled in the use of his Seal and who also was utilizing a style that made heavy plays upon Neji's weakness against Long-Range combat. Sasuke, on the other hand isn't used to his Seal and has a style that puts him into this situation: Puddy in Neji's hands.

Comapring Kidimaru to Sasuke is an insult. Even fat Chouji beat someone who had a cursed seal. You know what, Sasuke fought against Naruto and Gara. The two most powerful characters in Naruto, not to mention they both had demons inside them.

Believe me, It's humanly possible. It's an old habit I picked up from Roleplaying boards, where you needed to read every post prior so that you didn't post something random that fucked up the plot.

Someone who has claims to have read the whole thread should have the better knowledge of the both opponents moves. Demon seal? Dragon Flame? Its not Dungens and Dragons.

Also there is a difference between reading and understanding. Dont you think.

You claim that people underestimate Chidori, when it is you who infact underestimates Kaiten. Let's say Sasuke uses Dragon Flame, which Neji counters with Kaiten. To put this into proper understanding, you can try this at home: Take a ball of paper, douse the top of it in a flammable substance and set fire to it. Now, throw this ball of flaming paper into winds of up to 75mph, and watch what happens.

You and your stupid experiments. So a ball of paper is supposed to be a Katon. You dont know what is the temperature of that fire. It pretty much melted rocks the last time he used it and it was the size of a big stadium. I think that good enough to stop someones producing wind at 75 mph. Also 20% of that wind is Oxygen which is perfect for Nejis BBQ.

and once he gets close enough, It's simply over.

Oh I forgot about his bad breath. This is the secret move that only Neji fans know.

As for your big claims of Neji moves, read my above post.

ST_11

Thu, 02-23-2006, 04:23 PM

Sasuke will win because he has the advantange of predicting Neji's moves. Of course if he uses the power behind the tattoos (can't rememebr the name) he will lose.

NineTailsKitsu

Sun, 02-26-2006, 05:20 AM

That tends to happen when you are biased.

Now the pots calling the kettle black. This thread is based on bias, for one or the other, whether you admit it or not. Reading and understanding are differen't, right?

Lol.

Go watch smallville, it fits you.

The Heretic Azazel

Sun, 02-26-2006, 10:58 AM

And face your mortal enemy Lex LEWTHOR!!!

masamuneehs

Sun, 02-26-2006, 11:29 AM

I can't believe people are still discussing this so much. a 23 page thread? I know this would be a great match-up, but all of our speculations, comparisons and arguing really isn't going to change anything. Yes, it is fun to argue sometimes, but getting so serious about it is sort of silly.

I'd imagine that if there ever was a one-on-one between these two Sasuke would win just because it'd be weird for a guy like Neji to do something as important as beating Sasuke. Neji is cool and badass, but he's a 'secondary' character. It'll be interesting to see where these two are after the time-jump (no, i don't read the manga).

xDarkMaster

Sun, 02-26-2006, 04:41 PM

I agree with masamuneehs. While interesting, how can a fight over FICTIONAL characters become so heated? I mean, if Kishimoto wanted to he could make Neji or Sasuke god and have them make the universe implode. The fact is we don't know any specifics about the moves or anything. No point in getting worked about about mere speculation.

XanBcoo

Sun, 02-26-2006, 06:21 PM

It's all in good fun, boyos.

GreenBeast

Sun, 03-19-2006, 11:44 PM

Sasuke all the way. Neji has no chance

drims

Mon, 03-20-2006, 12:17 AM

I vote for Sauke
even though Neji is so much cooler and not a sell out.

Reason... Sasuke has been training with Oro he must be uber, and his training has to have been of better quality over what Neji has done; so Sauce man must be far ahead of him

Jadugar

Mon, 03-20-2006, 10:18 AM

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4148/sasuke5uq.jpg........................VS........... ........http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2766/neji6vp.jpg

UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 33
[ Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, AssertnFailure,Nests, XanBcoo,coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37,God#2, Strifexgx, Sapphire, Ero-Fan, Deadfire, aznroyale, MASTA-OF-DISASTA, sevyfez, anphorus, miss190, ST_11, xDarkMaster, GreenBeast, drims ]

NEJI : 23
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso, Necromas, darkshadow, NineTailKitsu, dug88 ]

Inazuma

Thu, 03-23-2006, 09:57 AM

Neji

Because, he is the man.
Sasuke is just chasing after he's bro back

Zidarri the Exile

Thu, 03-23-2006, 04:37 PM

darkmetal505

Thu, 03-23-2006, 09:58 PM

I'd say Neji, because of the Byakuugan. His abilities are amazing. Sasuke, even with all his Level 2 Speed, he still wouldn't be able to get close to Neji, with his . . . Gah, I forgot it's name. The whirl of chakra, his Ultimate Defense.

Not only that, but if Neji, in his current state in the manga, is probably a lot better at his Tai-jutsu, and could hit Sasuke's tenketsu.

And, Sasuke is a huge whiner, and I want to see him die.

My vote is for Hyuuga Neji

not with his speed, but with the sharingan (he kept up with kyubbi naruto with three pupils).

Neji's ultimate defense is called Kaiten (divine whirlwind), and I think we are doing pre time jump Neji.

Zidarri the Exile

Fri, 03-24-2006, 08:40 AM

His Sharingan would be troublesome, but Neji has the Byakuugan, and can see 358degrees around him. Sasuke wouldn't have a chance to get close to him.

Sharingan vs Byakuugan is a bad match up for the Sharingan, because all of Neji's abilities are from his Blood-Line, and so Sasuke wouldn't be able to copy them, or read them that well.

XanBcoo

Sat, 03-25-2006, 02:15 PM

I disagree completely. This is how I see it:

To my knowledge, people are citing the fight with Haku as evidence for the "Sharingan can't copy bloodline limit attacks". This is because Haku, who's bloodline limit seems to be the ability to control ice (?), uses a technique utilizing only this. The attack is unique in that it doesn't follow the normal rules for a jutsu - making use of the bloodline technique. So, Kakashi is unable to see through it with the Sharingan.

Jyuuken, however, is its own style of fighting. One does not need the Byakugan to use it. The Byakugan only allows the user to see ~360 degrees, and the inner coils system. Jyuuken is otherwise completely unrelated to the Byakugan because it is merely a way of controlling and attacking with chakra. Only the Hyuuga use Jyuuken proficiently because they have the Byakugan to see the chakra system, but nothing else about the fighting style is unique to the Hyuuga.

Carnage

Sat, 03-25-2006, 11:15 PM

ok, its been a while since Ive been to this thread. Here's all I have to say:

Sasuke has atleast Rock Lee's speed so he beats Neji in that department.
Sasuke has the three pupil sharingan and can predict movent.
Sasuke's uber fire ball > nejis fingers
Sasuke's chidori can break Kaiten for if someone has enough chakra they can break through the defense. (I.E. Naruto using a bit of Kyuubi's chakra tied with Kaiten)
Sasuke has Cursed Seal 1 and 2
Sasuke is main character #2

Overall, I think Sasuke can take Neji on even without his cursed seal. Neji cant use Kaiten forever. And its not undefeatable. For all of you who HONESTLY think Neji can beat Sasuke, your idiots. He's the second main character. Im pretty sure he can beat pretty much any other genin. Hell, even Chunin.

Zidarri the Exile

Tue, 03-28-2006, 08:21 PM

XanBcoo

Tue, 03-28-2006, 09:45 PM

Jyuuken NEEDS Byakugan to be used properly, as the Byakugan can see the Chakra system inside the body.

Jyuuken is not a Bloodline limit, but it is only usable by those of the Hyuuga clan.
Well done, you've stated the obvious! Now please read my post and/or older posts in this topic.

I've already argued against this point, but I'll restate my argument. Just in case ;). I believe Jyuuken can be copied and read by the sharingan because it is simply chakra control. Nothing else. Yes, you need the Byakugan to use it properly, but any ninja with the ability to control their chakra well can use Jyuuken style. This is not to say they can attack the inner chakra system, however. That is where the Byakugan comes in. This is also the reason the Hyuuga clan members are the only ones to use it.

In short, I'm saying the Byakugan is complementary to Jyuuken, and not the other way around. Jyuuken can be used by anyone, but needs Byakugan to be used effectively. Haku's ice-mirror jutsu on the other hand is created using Haku's bloodline limit, and cannot be used otherwise. Hence why Kakashi cannot copy it.

Because of Sasuke's ability to see chakra movements with the 3-pupil Sharingan, any Jyuuken style attack would be useless against him.

Naruto_RNG

Wed, 03-29-2006, 02:57 PM

damn this topic is still going on.
@XanBcoo
Because of Sasuke's ability to see chakra movements with the 3-pupil Sharingan, any Jyuuken style attack would be useless against him.

what? when was he able to see chakra movement? he can read taijustsus movement not chakra. damn I didn't know sharingan have Byakugan ability too, when did this happen?
jyuuken is nothing without Byakugan, therefore it becomes bloodline ability. if they can't see the tenketsu or wut ever its called they are just wasting chakra. watch the fight between naruto and neji again, and listen to wut neji and ten-ten and hinata's father say about hyuga's fighting style.
sharingan is the cheapest bloodline out in naruto, and that is why I choosed neji. neji has to train his ass off while sasuke can copy his opponents moves. sharingan is like the 3rd version of freedom (gundam seed) if it ever comes out. give sharingan to sakura and she'll become a tensai too.

xDarkMaster

Wed, 03-29-2006, 03:02 PM

While what some of what you say is true, you are making a fool of yourself.

Jyuuken ISN'T a bloodline limit for god's sake. The fact that it needs one to be implemented doesn't make it one.

Also, anyone with the sharingan would be considered a genius because that's what a genius is, someone with born talent.

anbu41

Wed, 03-29-2006, 04:59 PM

Naruto_RNG

Wed, 03-29-2006, 06:03 PM

Carnage

Wed, 03-29-2006, 06:08 PM

Hyuuga Neji...no matter how advanced the Sharingan is, it still can't mimic the Byakugan and Jyuuken (i think that's how u spell it). Besides, Sasuke won't be able to get past Neji's absolute defense (well, ALMOST absolute)

UGH. Nobody read my post. with enough chakra, you can get through kaiten. Look at how Naruto took it head on and disabled the sheild.

Naruto_RNG

Wed, 03-29-2006, 06:29 PM

@GOD#2
that could be true but in the process he'll damag himself more then he does on neji. the reason it didn't had much of effect on naruto was because of kyuubi's fast regenration power.

off topic
(I didn't know where to put this question and I didn't want to make a new topic)
do u guys think that afterfiller neji is able to open up one or more of the 8 gates?

Zidarri the Exile

Wed, 03-29-2006, 06:32 PM

Carnage

Wed, 03-29-2006, 08:32 PM

I have to disagree with Sasuke not having enough chakra to burst through kaiten.

The amount of chakra Naruto used in the fight vs. Neji is nothing compared to that of which he used against sasuke. And Im talking about before the first tail spirts out. Just look at the amount of chakra released in both fights. Obviously MUCH more chakra was used against Sasuke. And Sasuke turned out to have even more chakra then Kyuubi Lv./Tail 1. I think Sasuke might not even need to use the cursed seal to gather enough energy. Even Kabuto and Orochimaru were surprised by Sasuke's chakra stregnth. And no, Im not pulling shit out of my ass as some of you say, you can look all this up in the manga. I have it on my hard drive. If you disagree with what I have said so far, then I will show proof. But right now Im not on my computer, so I cant do it now.

Also, I would like to point out something:

Neji < Naruto prior end of Chuunin exams < Naruto after Chuunin exams < Kyuubi Naruto < Kyuubi Lv. 1 Naruto < Sasuke

now, Neji has obviously improved. So Im guessing this is where he stands during the Sasuke arc.

Neji < Kyuubi Naruto < Kyuubi Naruto Lv. 1 < Sasuke

darkmetal505

Wed, 03-29-2006, 09:01 PM

God#2, I simply err'd on my typing. I was not saying you were wrong, I was just expressing my opinon on Jyuuken. I think you are 100% right.

Also, as Naruto_RNG stated so blatently, he still can not see the Tenketsu, so thus Jyuuken is useless to him. All he would be able to do is predict, and counter Neji's moves. But, Neji has Byakugan, and can also predict, and see better than Sasuke.

Also, Naruto was using the chakra of the Kyuubik, and it has more Chakra then Sasuke. And he didn't break Neji's Kaiten, he simply stopped the whirl. Also, Neji's kaiten must be a lot bigger than it was now, I mean . . . Look at Hizashi's. So, Sasuke would have to pierce chakra, which I doubt he can do, and also move in a lot closer to Neji.

Neji is simply better at defense, and thus Sasuke wouldn't be able to do his bests.

He can't see tenketsu, but he can see chakra. Look at the fight before the preliminary matches of the chuunin exam where kabuto helped naruto, sasuke, and sakura fight the clone guys. Sasuke saw the chakra in the clones and identified the real ones.

It has been stated by Gai (in the anime) that chidori has the ability to cut through lighting, giving it the other name "lightning edge" (which was dubbed by kakashi himself). Now if chidori can't cut through kaiten, then naruto isnt an idiot.

As for predicting movement, the three pupil sharingan was able to see kyubbi naruto (who recently in the manga was able to punch orochimaru in the face and send him halfway across the forest). Also, CS2 sasuke was able to keep up in speed with naruto, if not faster.

"Two tomoe will also allow the ninja to pierce Genjutsu and see the surrounding reality for what it really is. It can also allow the member to pierce another’s body and see their chakra. While the eye is not refined enough to see the tenketsu and chakra circulatory system like the Byakugan, it can view the movement and flow of chakra. This can help them tell if a person is trapped in a Genjutsu, or if an attacker is a real threat or merely a bunshin.

An eye containing three tomoe will allow the ninja to see the image of an attacker’s next move from the slightest muscle tension in their body. This prevents wasteful movement and allows the Uchiha clan member to conserve much needed chakra in battle. It allows them to synchronize their movement to strike at an area moments before their opponent is even in that spot, essentially allowing them to strike out and hit their opponent before they're even there."

(QUOTED from leafninja)

ok lets just say sasuke did copy jyuuken, tell me what the hell is he going to do with it next? wut he'll be magically able to see the tenketsu because he is genius, or it's one of sharingan ability?
@xDarkMaster
just because your borned with a talent doesn't mean your a genius. hey I can wipe my ass I'm genius. isn't that a talent? I'm sure it is.

he doesnt need to copy it, he just needs to avoid it. Being a genius in naruto (as has been defined) is being born with talent, so you are above the normal standards. You know what xDarkMaster meant.

xDarkMaster

Wed, 03-29-2006, 09:25 PM

ok lets just say sasuke did copy jyuuken, tell me what the hell is he going to do with it next? wut he'll be magically able to see the tenketsu because he is genius, or it's one of sharingan ability?
@xDarkMaster
just because your borned with a talent doesn't mean your a genius. hey I can wipe my ass I'm genius. isn't that a talent? I'm sure it is.

Okay, one, wiping your ass isn't a "talent" as every none retarded person can do it.

Two, I'm sure you couldn't wipe your ass when you were born.

Three, you know what I mean, your just trying to conceal the fact that your wrong.

Naruto_RNG

Wed, 03-29-2006, 10:30 PM

@xDarkMaster
I agree, wut I used as an example was wrong but sasuke has no talents and that has been proven time over time. hell the fact that he ran to Oro proves it. I really don't care who wins no more, cause as stated by God#2 if they ever do fight Kishi will make him the winner just because he is the 2nd main charater. same goes for naruto he will beat sasuke in his next fight with him just because he is the main charater. so we never know for sure who is actually stronger, however as for guessing goes Neji wins cause he is a true "genius".

darkmetal505

Wed, 03-29-2006, 10:49 PM

Zidarri the Exile

Thu, 03-30-2006, 04:33 AM

darkmetal505

Thu, 03-30-2006, 08:59 AM

Both Sasuke and Neji are genius's in our terms of intelligence. They are both genius in the Naruto-verse.

In over-all ability, Neji has shown that he is greater. It's that simple.

In anime, at the end of episode 135, I believe Neji had more skill, just not as much power, as Sasuke has the Earth Curse Seal, level two.

The Jyuuken is pointless to Sasuke, as are other non-Byakugan moves that Neji uses. But, even being able to predict them, I doubt Sasuke could pierce Neji's now bigger Kaiten range, as Naruto simply stopped the whirl, he didn't exactly pierce the Kaiten.

Another thing is that the Sharingan is much more deadly to the eyes than the Byakugan, as it uses way to much chakra, burning the retina. Byakugan is a true doujutsu, which increases the muscles around the eyes, allowing all that Chakra to be passed through the eyes.

Only way I see Sasuke winning is simply evading every Jyuuken move Neji has.

Ive already given evidence towards all of this

Evidence that Sasuke can penetrate kaiten (if you dont believe me, I'll post the screenshots):

It has been stated by Gai (in the anime) that chidori has the ability to cut through lighting, giving it the other name "lightning edge" (which was dubbed by kakashi himself). Now if chidori can't cut through kaiten, then naruto isnt an idiot.

Evidence that Sasuke can predict Neji's movement:

"An eye containing three tomoe will allow the ninja to see the image of an attacker’s next move from the slightest muscle tension in their body. This prevents wasteful movement and allows the Uchiha clan member to conserve much needed chakra in battle. It allows them to synchronize their movement to strike at an area moments before their opponent is even in that spot, essentially allowing them to strike out and hit their opponent before they're even there." (from Leafninja)