Fukuda Rants & Rave

[Strike Freedom]

Alright guys, I think this topic is well overdue since many of us still complain about Fukuda.

so here i go....

What the fuck happened to GSD? It had so much potential, but now it is literally SEED recycled all over again. Actually, it is worse than SEED with all the freaking recaps. I would really like to know what is the reasoning behind episode 47. That episode just did it for me, I was patient but now I snapped. I'm not saying he's the worst director ever, but for the love of Gundams don't butcher a series that had some potential to be one of the great ones. I am a Kira/Athuran/AA fan, but I truly do believe that the series would had been better if they would have sticked to their minor roles.

What goes through this guy's head as he is making this? What is influencing him to go through these radical and unstable changes in the series?

Fukuda should have never gone through a sequel of the series if he was just going to recycle the original. I was rewatching SEED and was like "shit, this is the same BS, from dialogue, battles, character development up to mobile suits.

I still stick with my original idea, the final should consist of Fukuda including himself in the last battle getting raped by all four characters (Rey, Shinn, Athuran & Kira). That would be the greatest all time ending!

[Terracosmo]

Fukuda is a fucktard who ruined the sequel to the best show ever by loading it with stuff that drooling fanboys want. It's all about explosions and random idiocy, and has no substance whatsoever. There are ridiculous amounts of things he could have executed differently, but for some god forsaken reason he settled for the "safe cards". He didn't take any chances, but instead revamped the Seed ending with a different "skin". There are more plot holes than in a swiss cheese, and it's also blatantly obvious that the script has been changed to match model kit sales. At least in Seed it was pretty subtle. In Destiny, everyone also survives explosions for some reason - which has utterly killed the show's believability. All of the characters which we thought would die have died. It is predictable beyond words.

Again, there was so much promise and so little effort needed to make this an awesome show - because I still believe that episodes 1-30 were great. After that it hastily declined.

Easy changes that could have saved the series:

- Heine should have been a permanent character.
- Djibril's past should have been developed, or at least make him more than "generic villain #248142914892 but with lipstick".
- Yzak should have been used much more.
- (THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT) Kira should have died in episode 34. I am NOT saying that because I hate Kira (which I do), I am saying it because from every single point of view it would have made the series better. Kira has just been "there" in Destiny. HIS ROLE IS FUCKING OVER. He isn't even a character anymore, just a robot which can destroy anything.
- MWU SHOULD HAVE STAYED DEAD
- Nobody should survive explosions

Take a moment and ponder on the above. Wouldn't that be a great series?

The only thing that can save the ending for me at this point is how Rey plays out. Who is he and what is his purpose? How will he die? (because he will)
Please... don't screw that up too...

[masamuneehs]

If you look at one of the images that appears during Dullindal's unveiling of the Destiny Plan in Episode 47 it shows a young blonde boy with a bunch of charts and things around him, making it look like he is the poster boy for the Destiny Plan. I really believe this is Rey...

FUK FUKUDA!! Seriously, I'll rant here properly and long-windedly later on. Suffice to say that half of my 420 posts are bashing this retards handling of GSD...

hehe 420 posts... that calls for a special bowlpack. heheh.

[Jurojin]

I agree.

GSD would have been so much better had Kira been killed off. It would have given GSD that twist that makes it unique from so many other incarnations of Gundam. Can anyone tell me if, in a sequal, where the previous main character has been killed by the current main character in the various Gundam incarnations?

Nothing really comes to mind, tbo, and that would have given GSD like UBER fame- (omg, he killed a main character before the end of the series!! he even killed a fan favorite! omg!)

And I think Yzak's little mini-appearences were added in just for people like Terra, who have wet dreams about him. (What? he's all but admitted it.... >_>'). Like, a carrot on a stick. How many times have we seen Yzak and were like "Hey, maybe he'll get a more prominent role this time!!..... Ok, not this time... But maybe next time, they wouldn't just put him in there for eye-candy, now would they?........ crap >_<!"


Every time a mobile suit is destroyed in GSD, and the pilot lives, I get flashbacks of G Gundam. G Gundam was were the mystical stuff was supposed to be crossed into the Gundam universe, not here in GSD :-/

[Nai]

Fukuda seriously needs to kill off his golden child, Kira.

Yes, at first he might have been a somewhat interesting and appealing character ( ... not to me, of course ). But after dozens of episodes in which he has literally done nothing but blown random shit up, tried to make inane justifications and hugged Lacus I'm getting really tired of this trite character.

Fukuda also needs to stop listening to the fanbase. If he's so concerned about the popularity of the show he should just go all the way turn it into fucking Pokemon. Hey, it's not like it's such a long stretch anymore.

You know, Fukuda has had so many fucking good opportunities to change or simply kill off Kira. He could have had Sarah kill off the real Lacus and then had Kira go apeshit on Mia, going "IT'S YOUR FAULT YOU BITCH!!!" as he pulled up a gun and shot her in the head. Naturally, that would make Asuran to flip out on his ass and engage in deadly combat.

... Or he could have simply let Kira die when Shinn owned him. You know, to add some actual consequences to death in this show. But nah, only the bad or sexy guys can die. I also love how Kira was all "oh yeaaah, I was so distracted" when he spoke to Asuran about his and Shinn's fight. Fucking lame, Fukuda. LAME!


Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Easy changes that could have saved the series:

- Heine should have been a permanent character.
- Djibril's past should have been developed, or at least make him more than "generic villain #248142914892 but with lipstick".
- Yzak should have been used much more.
- (THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT) Kira should have died in episode 34. I am NOT saying that because I hate Kira (which I do), I am saying it because from every single point of view it would have made the series better. Kira has just been "there" in Destiny. HIS ROLE IS FUCKING OVER. He isn't even a character anymore, just a robot which can destroy anything.
- MWU SHOULD HAVE STAYED DEAD
- Nobody should survive explosions
I actually agree with every single one of those points ( surprising, eh ).

Heine could have provided some much needed logic and sense into the show. Plus, he had sexy hair and a hot gouf. Djibril could have been so much more. I mean fuck, we never even were told why he hated coordinators so much. He just did, because he was evil. Yzak fighting Kira or Asuran or anybody that isn't a grunt at some point would also have been neat. And yes, I can't help but feel that the whole purpose of death has been greatly diminished in GSD. When I first watched 34, I thought to myself "this is the best fucking shit ever." Once I discovered that Kira was no longer dead it just became painfully pointless.

Also, I think Kira should simply be referred to as "the giant plot device" in the future. As that is really all his shallow personality amounts to.

[Terracosmo]

Fucking amen.

I also noticed that comment of Kira's in ep 46 or whatever. It was like throwing additional salt in the "Kira can own everything" wound. Lame indeed...

[XwingRob]

I will definately agree that Gundam SEED Destiny isn't as good as it should be. And part of the reason is that they have put too much power into Kira Yamato and friends. Though I'm not sure if killing him at episode 34 would have been the greatest idea though..
Basically if there is a third SEED series, this director should not be in charge of it because of the reason that Terra stated, and that is he doesn't take chances, nor does he change any of the characters.

[Digitalgirl]

GAH!!!!! wth is Fukuda thinking?!?! Why was ep. 47 a recap!!?!?! Why is this show so much worse than it should have been?!

[Freki]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Easy changes that could have saved the series:

- Heine should have been a permanent character.
- Djibril's past should have been developed, or at least make him more than "generic villain #248142914892 but with lipstick".
- Yzak should have been used much more.
- (THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT) Kira should have died in episode 34. I am NOT saying that because I hate Kira (which I do), I am saying it because from every single point of view it would have made the series better. Kira has just been "there" in Destiny. HIS ROLE IS FUCKING OVER. He isn't even a character anymore, just a robot which can destroy anything.
- MWU SHOULD HAVE STAYED DEAD
- Nobody should survive explosions

I agree with most of that. I would rather have no characters from SEED having major roles in this show, even Yzak, and I really think that Kira dying in 34 wouldn't have saved the show, he needs to be gone sooner, I really do think you said 34 just cuz you hate him. The AA crew would have been affected differently I guess, but Athrun would have been the same afterward since he thought he was dead, and as the series progressed and Athrun went back to AA it would have been Athrun on one side with Rey and Shinn on other which would have put AA in an impossible situation in Orb battle.

I think if you wanna save GSD from Kira you have to get rid of him at a much early point in series. I think GSD would have been much better if Kira and the whole AA crew hadn't been involved like they were. I think the show would have been better if they didn't try to split the focus amoung so many people, and focused only on Minerva with Athrun never joining them. Then we could be getting Shinn developing and eventually turning against the chairman resulting in a battle between him and Rey which would be much better then Athrun and Kira vs Shinn and Rey, if for no other reason then Kira has very little connection to Shinn and Rey other then having battled both at some point. If they really wanted old characters in they could have Shinn run into Kira or someone else make a cameo. Heine could have stayed with Minerva longer, but I still think he should have died but maybe closer to end of series.

Wow that ended up as much more typing then I intended, and really my ideas are prolly terrible but I would have preferred almost anything that tried to break away from SEED characters and be its own series.

[Gangrel]

Actually a good way to use Kira as a character would be to actually keep him as a civillian and just let him get into a crap MS (zaku is ok), to save someone he cared about get destroyed and die happy. Much like Ahtrun getting in that MS in first episode to save Kagari. I mean, wth is he doing on this series? I don't suppose even the Kira lovers actually think he is a good character anymore.

This show needs drama, not some lame speechs, lame excuses for war and other crap. After 47 episodes of the lack of character development, fanboy's crap, much recaps, I can see Destiny surpassing Wing as worst Gundam show ever. It doesn't matter if the show started well and got worst, cause I would prefer 10x more the other way around as anybody else.

I would prefer if they just made new characters instead of reusing the same ones. I think Kira was already developed, had nothing more to show. Pretty much AA crew should just vanished and fuck I still can't believe they brought Mwu back to life. If only Fukuda was a good director and not some lame idiot who hear everything a fanboy says.

It doesn't matter anymore, but if they ever make a new show based on Seed Universe, I hope they just make an entirely new show, with no reused characters, reused scenes or the other crap we all know it's in Destiny...

[masamuneehs]

So I'm wondering if we can tack on some kind of Poll Topic, an entire thread dedicated to how: How Can Fukuda Save GSD in 2 Episodes?

Choices include:
^^^^^^Mwu knocks up Maryu and uses his new priveliged position within ArchAngel to pull a Trojan Horse on the ArchAngel and be like, "Bitch, I never knew who the hell this Mwu La Flaga guy is that you always ramble on about when I'm boning you. I'm Neo Lornokke bitch! SLAP. ZAFT firing squad finishes it off.

^^^^^^During the final battle Rey and Shinn team up on Kira, and just before Athrun convinces Shinn to come over to their side Rey thrusts his beam sabre all the way through both Shinn and Kira's cockpits, killing them both. Rey gets the best Double Kill award in the Postgame Carnage Report.

^^^^^^ EAF suddenly emerges with a brand new, super powerful form of Externals. This time the pilots aren't children, because the new drug can reanimate the corpses fallen veterans of the wars. Auel, Stellar, Sting, Nichol, Heine, everyone comes back and are all brainwashed and used to make a final push for a Pure and Blue World! Azrael leads, naturally.

^^^^^^ The Ring of Power is finally taken, through epic struggles on brave Frodo and Samwise Gangy to Mount Doom whilst Aragorn... what? huh? you say that's been used already? Well golly be! I had no idea! Shucks, back to the drawing board!

^^^^^^ Quick boss Fukuda is running out of ideas to finish two episodes.
How about another recap? We still haven't done Talia or Rey-
No no don't be stupid! You know he never wrote any kind of actual backstory or anything like that for them!
You know, was in the boss' office last Tuesday.... Don't tell anyone this, I could seriously get fired...
Come on!
...............Well, you better not, not if you don't want me to crap Taco Bell all over the backseat of your Pinto. You know that pad he says he writes "ideas" on?
Waht about them?
All Fukuda X Kira yaoi porn...
That explains everything!

Seriously I dunno. Where did that come from? Goodnight folks!

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Freki


Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Easy changes that could have saved the series:

- Heine should have been a permanent character.
- Djibril's past should have been developed, or at least make him more than "generic villain #248142914892 but with lipstick".
- Yzak should have been used much more.
- (THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT) Kira should have died in episode 34. I am NOT saying that because I hate Kira (which I do), I am saying it because from every single point of view it would have made the series better. Kira has just been "there" in Destiny. HIS ROLE IS FUCKING OVER. He isn't even a character anymore, just a robot which can destroy anything.
- MWU SHOULD HAVE STAYED DEAD
- Nobody should survive explosions

I agree with most of that. I would rather have no characters from SEED having major roles in this show, even Yzak, and I really think that Kira dying in 34 wouldn't have saved the show, he needs to be gone sooner, I really do think you said 34 just cuz you hate him.

Yeah or maybe I said 34 because SHINN BLOWS FREEDOM UP THERE. Of course, if someone shot Kira down 20 eps earlier I wouldn't complain. But if they have their duel then why not end him there?

Also,

"^^^^^^During the final battle Rey and Shinn team up on Kira, and just before Athrun convinces Shinn to come over to their side Rey thrusts his beam sabre all the way through both Shinn and Kira's cockpits, killing them both. Rey gets the best Double Kill award in the Postgame Carnage Report."

BRILLIANT

[DDBen]

First off I'd like to state killing Kira would be pointless and is only being called for by those who have obvious hatred for him for any number of reasons.

That said, having the characters actually develope would have been a far better solution.
- Not even including Rey in the series as he has absolutely no point aside from allowing them to further rehash the Gundam Seed story.
- Shinn needed to be less of a whiney bitch overall developing his character and having closure on issues like his family dying would have been great. Nothing with Shinn has changed from episode one until now.
- Athrun should have not gone through the EXACT same developement as Seed. Yes the pacing is differn't but he is almost 100% identical to how he acted in GS
- The EA should have actually had some new mobile suits that were not cannon fodder. I'm sorry but why have Destroy if they are just going to die like Zaku's and the other mobile armors make no sense for the EA. A large military should not have a relatively small amount of troops in uber mechs as it makes zero sense from any sort of standpoint.
- Considering the existance of Astray it would have been nice to see some interaction with the characters from it. A random cameo would be fine. I just would have liked to see any sort of tie in as Astray is something that really interests me.
- Shinn should have at some point been either captured or defeated. I mean he has no motivation at all in this series. Stellar frankly was pointless and there was no reason for her to die. If he's going to use random girls to instill him with his seed ability. I just wish they bothered to do some sort of developement that didn't involve his penis and a retard.
- Lunamaria and Rey should have been either killed off or developed more. You all complain about Kira and Athrun being resurrected. Yet nobody mentions that Rey AND Luna also blew up in there Gundams and yet magically survived. Luna has done nothing but look cute. In her gunner she was virtually useless and now in Impulse she still can't aim. Yet for such a dry character why on earth would she be in a mobile suit with such a name to begin with.
- There should have been a stated limit to the number of fliers that the Minerva contains. There was no excuse in 34 for Shinn to cannon fodder parts of impulse when chances are there is no factory making him more of them. They stated that Savior was to specific of a design to get replacement parts so why should he get to blow up half a dozen parts of impulse with NOBODY blinking.
- After the battle with Stellar in destroy the fact that Zaft tracked down AA with a HUGE force when they just had several cities worth of units destroyed just didn't work for me. Not only should the AA have been underwater to begin with but there was no excuse for them to move in that many troops after Minerva was sent in ALONE vs the MS that had just massacred several cities.
- Calgari and Athrun or Kira and Lacus should be married by now. Why are we rehashing established relationships. I mean come on you've been dating Lacus for over 3 years Kira by now you should be doing more then a occasional hug. As for Athrun is was good to see him basically get engaged to Calgari but whats with her political wedding in the first place Orb isn't freaken England and I see no purpose in her ever having been set up in a arranged marriage.
- Meer should NEVER have existed. We certainly don't need 2 of Lacus. One is more then enough and everything about Meer simply felt like a waste of time. Episodes 46 and 47 made me feel the same as the back to back recap episodes in seed around episode 25 and 26.
- For the love of god there should be no recaps after the halfway point in a series. This is the second one in the last 10 episodes and right now the plot should be in high gear with positions established. It shouldn't be sitting in quicksand with Dullindale announcing the Destiny plan and Shinn for the first time thinking.
- Heine should have played a more major role in the series.
- The druggies should have either been killed off later OR they should have been replaced. The EA seemed essentially pointless in this war. Seriously the entire planet had what 3 elite drugged up soldiers and a mind wiped Mwu. Nobody else from the EA put up any sort of fight and even the Doms are random Zaft pilots.

Thats enough for now I'll post more later.

[Jurojin]

@DDBen-

Kira dying would have been a major boost in the series. I don't care that there are X number of kira fanatics, it would have made the series go into new and fresh ground for a gundam series (again, unless someone can cite a series where this has happened already).

If you play the Fukada/safe/stupid way, then yes, you keep Kira alive despite the impossibleness of it (what, is Kira related to Mwu now?["I make the impossible, possible!"]). Then the Kira fans can go wet themselves @ regular intervals whenever he winks or smiles all knowingly.

If you play the innovative and, admittedly, gambling way, then you kill Kira off in episode 34, which polorizes Athrun et al (and the kira fans) against ZAFT, and you stop having 10 episodes of "well.. I dunno what to do... I want to not fight but I blah blah blah blah blah." It gives it direction (revenge for Kira, stopping a psychopath, preventing the Destiny Plan, whatever you want to call it). We're supposed to be 2-3 episodes from the end of the series, right? how much are they going to leave unexplained? unless they make them hourlong episodes @ least, there's very little chance of resolving much of anything. If they had killed Kira off 13 episodes ago, there would have been much more time for plot development around 2-3 characters, namely Athrun, Shinn, and Rey(maybe him, that's iffy), instead of this stagnant shuffle that we've had since then.


Other than that, I agree with most of what you posted.

[DDBen]

@ Jurojin
In a gundam series its a fact they do not kill off the main character. This is mainly due to the fact very very few Gundam series have had a true sequal. Aside from Zeta I can't think of any although many of the UC series reused characters.

If you really want to see a series where they kill off the main characters for no real reason watch Kare Kano(AKA his and her circumstances) where they arbitrarily kill off all the main characters and start over about 2 episodes from the end.

The main issue with Killing Kira is that its simply not believeable that Shinn would manage that. Your talking about someone who is genetically better then him with FAR more battle experience. It was bad enough that Shinn had unlimited MS parts for impulse. Considering he blew up the suit 3 or so times. (Why would you have so many leg and chest fliers yet have no replacement core splendors meaning if the pilot is dead the MS is useless).

I think the fight itself was absolutely useless. If they wanted to show Shinn's growth he wouldn't have gone psycho over Kira doing his best to avoid killing Stellar. I mean her body was undamaged and she was still alive when Shinn got to her. The least that Shinn could have done in such a case is to not go out of his way to kill someone who just saved his life. I'm sorry but that entire battle was just absolutely retarded and pointless as it represented a situation that made absolutely no sense on any side. All it served to do in the long run is introduce more Models and have Kira and Athrun lose to EXACTLY the same attack from shinn.

[Jurojin]

In a gundam series its a fact they do not kill off the main character

And you think this isn't a problem why?

I forgot that arguing this point with you is like like bashing my head into a brick wall. It gets nowhere and just ends up giving me brain trauma. You're not going to let go of your Kira plushie and your "Fukada pwns j00" poster, and I'm not going to change my opinion that Kira should have kicked the bucket, for good reason, when he faced off with Shinn.




By not killing A main character (it could very well have been Athrun and Meyrin that could/should have died), this makes the series absolutly no different than the previous incarnations of Gundam. Which is very sad from any perspective.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
And you think this isn't a problem why?

I forgot that arguing this point with you is like like bashing my head into a brick wall. It get's nowhere and just ends up giving me brain trauma. You're not going to let go of your Kira plushie and your "Fukada pwns j00" poster, and I'm not going to change my opinion that Kira should have kicked the bucket, for good reason, when he faced off with Shinn.

By not killing A main character (it could very well have been Athrun and Meyrin that could/should have died), this makes the series absolutly no different than the previous incarnations of Gundam. Which is very sad from any perspective.

First off Shinn is widely HATED by the fanbase. For him to kill the most popular character of both series. It would cause the absolute death of Gundam Seed francise. I don't like Fukada at all for your information. I loved Seed I found it to be a fresh and insteresting take on the Gundam line despite what it reused the series still felt fresh. Gundam Seed Destiny has on the other hand been terrible from start until now constantly going down hill. I don't feel that Fukada shouldn't have taken some drastic steps but killing a character like Kira is certainly not the way to do it.

Frankly there are a lot of characters from Gundam Seed that in Destiny could have been killed allowing for a twist and a increase in popularity to the series given a proper death. Where as making a whiney bitch like Shinn out to be the most powerful quardinator out there by having him kill Kira. If anything at 18 Kira is better then he was in Seed even if he hasn't touched a MS for the last 3 years he still has far greater experiance then anyone could learn in times of peace on a simulator. Also no matter what battles Shinn has gone through it wouldn't make him able to surpase the "ultimate coordinator" after only a couple of weeks or months.

Athrun and Calgari have both been reset as if this was a alternate universe and magically we were at the begining of Seed all over again. Either one of them would have been a much more realistic person to kill off in place of Kira who essentially if beat would make Shinn the strongest warrior in the entire Seed univers. I didn't care for him winning in any way in 34 after going out of there way to tell us he was a complete underdog stating that anyone using freedom would have a advantage due to the suit but Kira was virtually uncermountable. This goes along with the Fliers being launched and linking up with Impulse with absolutely ZERO delay. This made the fight a worthless plot device and nothing more. Killing ANY main character or even a sub one like Yzak or Deakka in a battle like that would be completely worthless.

To me the issue with this series not being new is that there has been no new group of any kind introduced. Perhaps having the junkers from the Astray series involved in the war or anything along those lines instead of setting up the same EXACT sides as we had in the last war. What makes it even worse is they brought back Mwu as Neo and had him fighting another clone aka Rey. Whats the point in having the series start over and do the same thing all over again.

This basically leaves that the entire problem hinges on that they started with Shinn and tried to make him Kira. This made Kira unable to be develope as he had nowhere to go. This made Athrun, Calgari, (Neo/Mwu), yzak, Deakka, Rey(Raul) and the Chairman(rauls other side) all to also develope in exactly the same way. Your issue with the shouldn't be why didn't they kill Kira. In fact it should be more like why wasn't there a group of individuals that are members of faith working in the background to uncover the truth as there suppose to be independant in the first place. Heck why even have faith if all it meant was that Athrun was left be the chairmans bitch all over again.

Every single aspect of the story which could have brought life to GSD was ignored and in the end all we have is Gundam Seed all over again this time with more models. I'm sorry if you have issues with the concept that someone doesn't have to be a fanboy to disagree with you. The fact remains that your head is simply to far up your arse for you to even imagine that perhaps they should have started the story in a completely differn't way where each character could grow OR each character could simply show up to do what they do in the first place. I'm sure even you would have been ok with a group working behind the scenes and perhaps having Kira and Lacus end up hiding them for a time where Kira might actually train the newbies in some way and then having him show up as a Allie in the final battle. As opposed to having Kira and Lacus as the driving force to the war where Kira is set up as once again the only roadblock that is preventing the annihilation of the human race.

[Jurojin]

Mark Twain said:


Don't try to treach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

DDBen said:


Oink oink.



*sigh* Look, I agree with -most- of what you're saying in the many different ways they could have started off the series, and pulling a Dallas with Mwu/Neo was one of the worst things they could have done.

That being said, you're an idiot if you can't let go of the preconception that killing off a main character from SEED(Kira/Athrun/Cagalli/Lacus, take your pick) would "kill the Gundam Seed franchise." Pure and simple. G. Gundam was where it was supposed to be fantasy/mecha, so almost nobody dies unless it's thematical, and even then they find ways of coming back (DG cells anyone?). Gundam Seed is *supposed* to be a Drama/mecha anime. To keep playing it safe, and not kill off main characters, (or even more sickening, bring them back from a positron cannon blast) takes away the emotion and drama from a series that's supposed to focus on emotion and drama.

In Seed, we had Fllay's father die- tragic, and it drove her off the deep end. Tolle dies a *senseless* death, and drives Kira into a rage. Cagalli's father blows himself up to prevent the EAF from getting a hold of the Mass Driver, and Cagalli matures into a more solid character, not just crying all the time.

Best example: Nicol dies. Was he not a main character in the begining of Seed? And what lasting effects that made the middle of SEED as good as it was came from those fights, where friends of Athrun and Kira died at the other's hands?

Death is pivotal in war dramas. In GSD, there have been many chances to kill off important characters that would have had lasting effects on all of the episodes from the begining to the end. Did they explore them? Hardly.


But as for the KiraxShinn debate, you mimic every single voice of Kira fans out there. Constantly. So either accept your fandom, or admit to the fact that Kira is not God and can be beaten by Shinn. Otherwise, well, you're just proving the point.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
That being said, you're an idiot if you can't let go of the preconception that killing off a main character from SEED(Kira/Athrun/Cagalli/Lacus, take your pick) would "kill the Gundam Seed franchise." Pure and simple. G. Gundam was where it was supposed to be fantasy/mecha, so almost nobody dies unless it's thematical, and even then they find ways of coming back (DG cells anyone?). Gundam Seed is *supposed* to be a Drama/mecha anime. To keep playing it safe, and not kill off main characters, (or even more sickening, bring them back from a positron cannon blast) takes away the emotion and drama from a series that's supposed to focus on emotion and drama.


First off I didn't say Killing a main character would kill the series. I support killing Athrun, Cagalli or Lacus. Basically because none of these people are set up as the best MS pilot in existance. If Shinn killed Kira that would result in unbalancing the GS world in general. You take out the #1 Pilot on episode 34 now what do you have left to do in the series. Shinn is already with Zaft who is winning the war. Athrun is not as good a pilot as Kira(note he is exceptional but he's never managed to beat Kira in any of there fights). Now given Killing any of the other 3 besides Kira gives him a excellent reason to get truely involved in the conflict and a reason to hate Shinn. Killing Kira makes Shinn a unsurpassable God in GS and the only way to make it remotely even is either numbers or having Rey suddenly turn in Raul.

Also note that at this point my choice for who to kill off to have furthered the plot would be Calgari. She's been useless for the ENTIRE series. However by having Shinn Kill her off in the defence of Orb you give Kira and Athrun true motivation having lost a sister and a fiance(well if she still is). This also leaves room for Meyrin to replace her and gives Lunamaria a reason to turn her back on Shinn if not also leaving her dead for trying to betray her letting Shinn's last shred of sanity go away.

Note my reasoning for Kira having to survive until atleast the end of the series are that he's clearly the fan favorite in every single poll I've seen and that in the end he's the #1 threat in a mobile suit. Letting Kira live through Freedoms destruction I do agree was stupid but then again I feel freedom should have survived and been retrofitted with the upgrades making it Strike Freedom or it should have been a hand me down upon the completion of Strike Freedom. I also happen to stick to the fact making impulse have unlimited replacement parts just hurts my head its so pointless. Anyone could win if they were a exceptional pilot with as many cannon foddar suits as they needed. Given Destiny as a mech also seems to be a horrible version of impulse, as it gives up every advantage that impulse has (quick repair time, unlimited lives, the capacity to always have some sort of weapon, The ability to use multiple packs at once) and what does it gain lasers in its hand?

All of that being said knock off the pointless flaming PSJ it will get you nowhere and this is a thread for rants reguardless.

[Strike Freedom]

Well, I love these type of debates, both sides bring up valid points. Since there is no obvious right or wrong answer, I would say a compromise comes into effect.

Bottomline: this is all Fukuda's fault.
I blame him for everything that has gone wrong with this series.

I blame him for my cold right now.

I blame him as the reason that Terra is so hot-headed as he is.

I blame him for the fall of Rome.

I blame him for the rise of Hitler.

I blame him for all the nerds out there that can't get laid.

I blame him for Kira becoming as stale as bread.

Kira blames Fukuda for the way that Kira is, especially since he hasn't been able to hit that (in terms of Lacus).

Shinn blames Fukuda as the real reason his family is gone.

Masamuneehs blames him for all those nights that he gets wasted and for starting that alcohol thread.

Everyone blames him for the discord he has caused all of us. So if there is any compromise, it is that Fukuda is the ultimate villian, period!i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif

[masamuneehs]

Wow, this back and forth bickering heating up.

DDBen, in your first post I believe you mistake some of the EFFECTS of bad script writing and directing for CAUSES of the shittiness of GSD.

Having Rey, Meer, Shinn's cocky/bitchy/whiny/aggressive personality, the EAF decline after losing Phantom Pain, Lunamaria in the series were all excellent opportunities. They've just been neglected by the script and the focusing more on Seed characters. Also, if you're going to make the case for having Shinn be captured or defeated at some point in the series, you are ignoring the bigger Bullshit Invincible Character. Kira survived a cockpit shot, averted a nuclear explosion, and was fished out of freezing waters by a retreating ArchAngel.... And lets not also mention Sting's surviving Chaos' crash or Mwu doing the same.

Also DDBen, you express alot of Fukuda like thinking by basing what should happen on which characters are popular in the fanbase. This is a recipe for rehashed garbage, an extremely conservative formula that Fukuda has stuck to so much that its pathetic. Any character from the original Seed series is portrayed as being "the good guy" and none of them have died, despite being in peril in numerous episodes.

Oh, and War is about Death. War dramas are fueled by the constant threat that almost any character can die at anytime. But in Destiny we essentially know that Seed characters will survive and others like Rey, Stellar, Auel, Sting, DOM Troopers, Heine and Meer (though I thought she'd survive actually) are the only ones at risk of getting killed.

Remember how they used to end the previews of episodes for the original Mobile Suit Gundam? Not with some corny idealistic line, but with an ominous "Who will survive?" THAT is war, that is the basis of what Gundam is, not model kits, not popular fanbase, not favoring certain VAs (YzakcoughcoughYzak) but telling a believable and exciting story about imperfect human beings and their efforts in war.

[Jurojin]

DDBen:


The fact remains that your head is simply to far up your arse

DDBen:


All of that being said knock off the pointless flaming PSJ it will get you nowhere and this is a thread for rants reguardless

2 things:

1) You started it. All I did was suggest (which you have not disproved, only attempted to sidestep it) to the point that you are a Kira fan. Perhaps the insult was the Fukada comment, but hey, considering how you seem to be agreeing with his logic (fanbase > plot credibility) it was warranted.

2) I am not PSJ, and he hasn't even posted in this thread :-/

Edit:


I could so see this happening-


Announcer: "On the next episode of Gundam Seed: Destiny Idol, what will the judges say about the remaining cast members?"

Paula: "I really think that Shinn, while all angsty and stuff, is a real contender to win. Kira seems to be a bit too 1D for this show, and really has no room to grow. We should do him a favor and let him move onto greener pastures."

Fukada: "Unfortunatly Paula, Shinn's not very well liked, while Kira has the highest fan base. But since you seem to like him a lot, I'll spare him the axe. Simon?"

Simon: "Well, I for one can't wait for Kira to be pasted on the mountain side. *booing in the crowd*. But I hear that Heine is becoming very popular, and might even surpass Kira in fandom."

Fukada: "We can't have the character I've set up to be God killed or surpassed. Hmmm. Well, looks like Heine's just going to have to go."

[Splash!]

Let me join this rant

FUKUDA IS A NO GOOD S.O.B!!!!
He ruined the bloody series. He is a wimp. I wish even now that some one kills him, a new director comes and changes the script to end the series in a good way (probably adding 3-4 episodes at the end toget some explanation done). But who am i kidding, nothing like that is ever going to happen.

In any case, despite all the screw ups i will still be willing to forgive him if kira dies, even at this stage. His purpose is served, he has gone through as much character development as fukuda could give him, he has accomplished more than enough, he needs to die.
Also , Shinn should die too if they kill of luna. If they don't, then i think he should live.

But who am i kidding, i cannot expect fukuda to make something of this series. the past has already shown what he is capable of

This is my theory of how Fukuda will end the story--->
Shinn will join Clyne Faction.
Rey will die at Shinns hands
Kira Athrun Mwu, Shinn, Luna, Lacus will not die
Kira will kill Gil, and Talia will also die.
Coordinators and naturals will finally get together and everyone will live happily ever after. The military will be disbanded and everyone will be unemployed. THE END

Lets see how much of this will happen

[Freki]

I know what events happened in 34 that made you pick that episode, I simply thought that actually thinking that that would somehow have saved GSD is foolish, and the only reason to support killing him then or at any point, as opposed to simply not involving him in show, is cuz you hate him and wanna just see him die on screen. Athrun's actions would have been the same and the AA crew wouldn't go on about revenge since they would prolly stay true to the belief that revenge wouldn't solve anything. The only difference his death in 34 would cause would be to disrupt the balance of Ace pilots in GSD. Who could possibly fill in for Kira to help Athrun fight Rey and Shinn at this late point in the series? Nt to mention the fact that the first SF v Destiny battle happened while Athrun was injured still. All killing Kira would do would make Eternal gone after episode 39 and Orb would fall when Zaft attacked to get Djibril. That is why you don't get rid of Kira, the series would have nowhere left to go unless we followed Minerva around for 10 episodes not fighting anyone until they decided to go against the chairman, but without some voice of opposition I don't see that happening, not to mention the fact that involving AA crew at all so that that can be their end is the most pointless waste of all their screen time.

I think they only way GSD could have really been better was if it had been seperate from SEED and not involved any of the characters in prominent roles. They should have started fresh, by keeping so many characters around they had to split time between all their old characters and all the new ones and obviously there was not enough character development to go around. Having Kira in the series and killing him could work but I don't see it serving any real purpose other then satisfying the people who hate him, it would have been much better just to abandon him, and the other old characters, after SEED.

Also, while main characters should not be above the possibility of dying, simply killing off main characters because it hasn't been done in a Gundam series is stupid. You shouldn't be killing main characters just because they are a main character just like you shouldn't keep someone around just because they are a main character.

[Nai]

Originally posted by: Freki
... is cuz you hate him and wanna just see him die on screen.
Or because he's at a literal dead end when it comes to character development.

There are no surprises with Kira. No changes. No mystery. No development. And this, this is what makes him a boring and placid character. I cannot fathom why ANYONE would enjoy him at this point. He has the personality of a rock, the hairstyle of a mop and the voice of a prepubescent boy who's been spanked far too many times.


Originally posted by: Freki
The only difference his death in 34 would cause would be to disrupt the balance of Ace pilots in GSD
Right, because right now we have such excellent balance. His very EXISTENCE is what disrupts the freakin' balance. How can a battle be exciting when you know he will swoop down in the last second and "LolZ PwnZ" everyone in a matter of seconds? That is, unless he gets "distracted" or some bullshit like that according to our beloved Fukuda.

And did you ever stop to think that killing off Kira would perhaps let characters close to him, such as Lacus, develop? I mean, surely losing the person you loved would fuck up your head a bit, no? I'm really touching another issue here, however. The issue of the would be "good guys" not suffering any losses and subsequently no real changes. I guess this kind of plot in which nothing ever occurs past big explosions and the painfully obvious exorcism of all things evil and unjust would appeal to some, however.

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: splash
Let me join this rant

This is my theory of how Fukuda will end the story--->
Shinn will join Clyne Faction.
Rey will die at Shinns hands
Kira Athrun Mwu, Shinn, Luna, Lacus will not die
Kira will kill Gil, and Talia will also die.
Coordinators and naturals will finally get together and everyone will live happily ever after. The military will be disbanded and everyone will be unemployed. THE END

Lets see how much of this will happen

Lol. I was thinking that EVERY ONE of those things will occur in the upcoming final episodes!

It is obvious that Shinn is having second thoughts about Dullindal, and you can tell he's going to leave soon because Rey hasn't been trying to support him and be a friend, like he was earlier on (helping Shinn escape with Stellar, standing up for him in front of Athrun)

Shinn will also take Lunamaria with him to the Clune Faction.

Shinn will kill Rey, it's the only way the final episode will have any kind of drama in it if Shinn is on the AA side.

Which makes me wonder if Shinn might have to stay with the Minerva, along with Lunamaria, just because it sets up an excellent 3 on 3 battle (Kira, Athrun, Mwu VS. Shinn, Rey, Lunamaria) and would be that much better than just everyone Vs. Rey... And if that's the case, I predict Rey and Lunamaria die, leaving Shinn so empty that he finally gives up (thus surviving himself)

Everyone will go unemployed. BUT because Fukuda seems to want to make a 3rd Series out of Seed, don't expect Lacus Faction or any competent good guys to have any part in the Peace Accord at the end of the Destiny War. Then we'll have the Blue Cosmos revived, resurrect Flay, Stellar and Heine to fuck with Kira's, Shinn's and Athrun's heads, a brand new Coordinator plot to control the universe, more attempts to sell model kits and more BS garbage.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

the only way i can see fukuda regaining our love is if he upgrades the METEORs and make special cameos of gundams from the astray manga(like the red frame astray or the gold frame astray) in the final battle

[Freki]

Originally posted by: Nai


Originally posted by: Freki
... is cuz you hate him and wanna just see him die on screen.
Or because he's at a literal dead end when it comes to character development.

There are no surprises with Kira. No changes. No mystery. No development. And this, this is what makes him a boring and placid character. I cannot fathom why ANYONE would enjoy him at this point. He has the personality of a rock, the hairstyle of a mop and the voice of a prepubescent boy who's been spanked far too many times.


Originally posted by: Freki
The only difference his death in 34 would cause would be to disrupt the balance of Ace pilots in GSD
Right, because right now we have such excellent balance. His very EXISTENCE is what disrupts the freakin' balance. How can a battle be exciting when you know he will swoop down in the last second and "LolZ PwnZ" everyone in a matter of seconds? That is, unless he gets "distracted" or some bullshit like that according to our beloved Fukuda.

And did you ever stop to think that killing off Kira would perhaps let characters close to him, such as Lacus, develop? I mean, surely losing the person you loved would fuck up your head a bit, no? I'm really touching another issue here, however. The issue of the would be "good guys" not suffering any losses and subsequently no real changes. I guess this kind of plot in which nothing ever occurs past big explosions and the painfully obvious exorcism of all things evil and unjust would appeal to some, however.

Those reasons are the exact reason why I feel he shouldn't be killed in GSD, any involvement from him in the series is too much, even characters who are in there to die should have some kind of positive effect on the quality of the story, having him die in GSD is simply devoting time to him so that he can eventually be killed off for being dull. Also we saw how traumatized Lacus was when her dad was killed off in SEED I would expect the same type of reaction now, she might be saddened, but I doubt it would change her attitude about anything.

And there is balance now, we have 2 Aces against 2 Aces all in the most powerful suits. Sure you may think that Kira is invincible, but so far Shinn is the only one of the 4 to not lose a MS in battle. Everyone goes on and on about invincible Kira when Shinn is just as invincible, one survives being shot down the other never gets shot down. I think there is not a large gap between the two pairs right now, and it would be far worse without Kira there.

[DDBen]

@ Jurojin

First off my bad on calling you PSJ I was posing in 2 topics and made a error due to you having virtually the same opionion. However reguardless of that I was at fault in doing that and will modify the post to correct the error.

As for the flaming lets see

now as for flaming goes your initial comment as follows would be the initial flaming that took place.


I forgot that arguing this point with you is like like bashing my head into a brick wall. It gets nowhere and just ends up giving me brain trauma. You're not going to let go of your Kira plushie and your "Fukada pwns j00" poster, and I'm not going to change my opinion that Kira should have kicked the bucket, for good reason, when he faced off with Shinn.

That was followed by me suggesting you remove your head from your arse however that was not the focus of the post. I didn't comment about anyone flaming until you continued it in the next post by making both a false quote which was nothing but derogatory and offered NOTHING in relation to the conversation at hand.

@Masamuneehs

First off all bad script writing and directing is the fault of Fukada as if he didn't like what he saw in a script he wouldn't have let/had the series go in that direction in the first place.

As for me having Fukada like thinking this is both true and false. The part that is true is that I believe in any story where you have a established main character the fans are going to want to see that main character continue in there role or else why did they watch the first series. Fukada's issue lies purely in the execution of this making characters be either stuck on repeat doing the same thing they did all over again or causing the characters developement to pause for absolutely no reason. The pacing of this show has been terrible from the start. I don't even think for a second this should have been such a global war in the first place. I think that had they done it in a more Astray type setting where the fate of the world wasn't hanging in the balance and we could simply see characters develope with less of the rehashed and pointless politics we would all be far happier.

As for it being a drama about War and Death. While this is completely true of a series that is about more of a squad of guys being shown behind the scenes during a conflict. This is not the case for any show which contains main characters. You simply can't kill the person who is telling the story or there is nothing to tell. Its predetermined that the person will live as otherwise there is nothing to be told. Given this isn't a narative of that nature it is a story that centers around those with the power to do something in a large scale conflict. As such killing a major player would serve to do nothing but stiffle the story. This is the main reason why I would have prefered a much smaller conflict as its easier to kill off someone in order to develope someone else.

@ Freki
I agree with your post so there is nothing to rehash

@ Nai.
Kira's lack of developement is because GSD just has to many characters fighting for screen time then when you cut 1/10th of the episodes and replace them with clip shows there is no time to adequately develope anyone.

Essentially Kira's death serves no purpose in 34 heck Kira serves no real purpose in GSD aside from being a plot device that sells models. If they had simply left the AA out of the entire conflict until either Orb was attacked or Minerva defected the series overall would have worked out a lot better. Note if Kira dies in 34 then Lacus dies in 39 and we have absolutely nothing of worth left except Zaft wins. No Doms No SF or IJ and essentially no plot Fukada painted himself into a corner by immediately including Kira and Athrun and making them follow exactly the same path. The only thing that made this remotely interesting to me was the fact that Kira had become so steadfast in his determination which allowed the plot to change slightly from GS.

@AtHRunOwNZaLL

unfortuneatly we have already seen the Meteors when the Eternal was fighting and they had absolutely no upgrades done to them(that I noticed). This is a result of the Meteors being to big to effectively market as models.
As far as Cameos go if this is really the last series using these characters I truely hope they bring them on as I would love to see the Junk guilds fighting along sige the Clyne faction instead of simply waiting on the sidelines. Mainly due to the fact the destiny plan screws them over as well(no junk means that there MS racket is completely off the table and that they will be doomed to a life as garbage men).

[Gangrel]

Originally posted by: DDBen

If Shinn killed Kira that would result in unbalancing the GS world in general. You take out the #1 Pilot on episode 34 now what do you have left to do in the series. Shinn is already with Zaft who is winning the war. Athrun is not as good a pilot as Kira(note he is exceptional but he's never managed to beat Kira in any of there fights).
.

Ok, it seems ur fandom for Kira has surpassed reality and u need to rewatch Gundam Seed. After Ahtrun and Kira go seed mode one on another Athrun manages to grab Strike, too bad he didn't have power and do self-destruct and well I can't see how he survived inside Strike when Athrun got so messed up when he was running.

And maybe you wanna watch after Athrun get together with Kira and they go to space to stop war with Eternal, AA and others. Well, in most of the battles on space I just saw Athrun doing most of the job (he was the one fighting the drugies more than Kira), Kira almost getting owned some parts, Athrun saving Kira... Well, I don't see your argument working.

Your point can be the episode Freedom owns Saviour, but as you can see it was Seed mode x non-Seed mode, this gives one hell of advantage. And I think that was purely fandom, giving Kira lovers some lolipops for em to feel happy "Oh yeah our Kira kicked Athrun's ass! Woopie! Ill buy another Freedom toy!"

No, I am no Athrun fan. I just realized that in Seed Athrun is as good of a pilot as Kira. They just give more screen time to the main character and his gundam, which was Kira. And no, I don't think Kira is the main character of GSD.

[Marcis]

I will add my opinion about Fukuda.

Seems that GSD is very ... unfocused show.It goes along it's course and then after couple of episodes it starts to waver off course. This trend appeared after episode 15 i think. After that -EDITED- episode. It got very bad after episode 34 as Terra mentioned.
One or two good episodes and then show wanders away .. why? To collect info from online polls and fanboy opinions? Really, it seems that fan opinions dictate the course of show. The show's pace is jagged. Now we get half-recap episode about Meer who's real life picture seems to be low-res screenshot of Myung from Macross Plus. Does Originality muse left Fukuda's room completely??? Seems so.
We still don't get much info on Destiny plan and we have only 3 eps to go. Scripting seems very unfocused here, if they want to see how it can be possible to switch between old cast and new one i suggest they watch Zeta - perfectly done. No wonder second Zeta movie tickets are sold out already.
This show is unfocused - i think this summarizes GSD the best.

[aznroyale]

the only thing i hate is that he kills some of the good characters. like Henie, and Nicole

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: DDBen
First off I'd like to state killing Kira would be pointless and is only being called for by those who have obvious hatred for him for any number of reasons.

Says the living anti-Shinn. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

Seriously though, shut the hell up. People here are giving educated and well thought-out reasons to why Kira's death would have improved the series, which is a lot more than you have provided in your countless number of anti-Shinn rants.

[Jurojin]

Originally posted by: DDBen
@ Jurojin

First off my bad on calling you PSJ I was posing in 2 topics and made a error due to you having virtually the same opionion. However reguardless of that I was at fault in doing that and will modify the post to correct the error.

As for the flaming lets see

now as for flaming goes your initial comment as follows would be the initial flaming that took place.


I forgot that arguing this point with you is like like bashing my head into a brick wall. It gets nowhere and just ends up giving me brain trauma. You're not going to let go of your Kira plushie and your "Fukada pwns j00" poster, and I'm not going to change my opinion that Kira should have kicked the bucket, for good reason, when he faced off with Shinn.

That was followed by me suggesting you remove your head from your arse however that was not the focus of the post. I didn't comment about anyone flaming until you continued it in the next post by making both a false quote which was nothing but derogatory and offered NOTHING in relation to the conversation at hand.


So using imagry to state continued frustration with you is considered flaming, but you telling me to pull my head out of my ass is not. Ok gotcha.

Idiot.

And as for the "false quote": I'm sorry, I accredited Mark Twain with it, it's supposed to have been done by anonymous. My bad. The empaphasis was on the fact that you refuse to listen to anyone on this subject despite being showed how flawed and fukada-like your logic has been. Even so, that was only the first part of what I said, and not the focus of it. the rest of it, several paragraphs worth, was related to the topic, Fukada and his suckiness.

Gundam is NOT supposed to be equivilant to American Idol.

Edit:

http://www.donaldsensing.com/2...teach-pig-to-sing.html (http://www.donaldsensing.com/2003/11/never-try-to-teach-pig-to-sing.html)

Argh! Google is t3h suck.

Here's the quote. I'll give it to Heinlein.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Athrun is not as good a pilot as Kira(note he is exceptional but he's never managed to beat Kira in any of there fights).

wtf are you fucking kidding with me? athrun totally owned kira in episode 30 of gundam seed, i don't know what your smoking but athrun grabbed onto him with aegis then if he still had ps armor then he would've totally killed kira but he self-destructed and that still should've killed kira so athrun won, i think you are blinded by your love for kira

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL
wtf are you fucking kidding with me? athrun totally owned kira in episode 30 of gundam seed, i don't know what your smoking but athrun grabbed onto him with aegis then if he still had ps armor then he would've totally killed kira but he self-destructed and that still should've killed kira so athrun won, i think you are blinded by your love for kira

Yet Athrun didn't kill Kira and both of the Gundams were destroyed. That fight was a tie. Your also not talking a 1 on 1 fight for either party considering Kira however killed another Gundam while Athrun only took out a skygrasper. I would say that fight ended with 2 Gundams for Kira 1.5 for Athrun.

The only fanboy here is you which is stated by your name.

@Jurojin removing your head from your arse was flaming it was also a suggestion(and as a side note it was also imagry as one who's head is stuck up there arse can obviously not see anything aside from the inside of said arse). I responded after your second flame to knock off the pointless flaming not to your first. Also why don't you try posting something with a point instead. Currently all your doing is ranting. Now if you really think that killing off your main character every once in a while is good for a story they I suggest you write a show that does so and see how well it sells. No show is sustainable without its star/stars. What would Naruto be if they killed him off and moved on, or Kenshin without well Kenshin. In the end if the author in the end the only long running show where I can think of this being attempted was Dragon Ball Z, where Gohan was suppose to be the main character but the fans hated him so much they were forced to keep bringing Goku back from the dead to keep it running. All this ammount to is a even worse story then you get by working within the worth you created.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: DDBen


All of that being said knock off the pointless flaming PSJ it will get you nowhere and this is a thread for rants reguardless.

So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: PSJ
So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

You should take that earlier comment as a random typo induced by being at work.

As for your second statement I'm still waiting for you to post anything that has any logic behind it instead of simply posting random feelings that would neither improve the story or make anyone involved with it anymore money. In the end the driving force behind gundam is prophiet and if you can't accept that then you shouldn't waste your time watching.

As a side note if you bothered to read anything the only thing I stated that was contested at all was weather or not they should have had Shinn kill Kira.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: DDBen


Originally posted by: PSJ
So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

You should take that earlier comment as a random typo induced by being at work.

As for your second statement I'm still waiting for you to post anything that has any logic behind it instead of simply posting random feelings that would neither improve the story or make anyone involved with it anymore money. In the end the driving force behind gundam is prophiet and if you can't accept that then you shouldn't waste your time watching.

As a side note if you bothered to read anything the only thing I stated that was contested at all was weather or not they should have had Shinn kill Kira.

And that little part where you dismissed everyone's opinions & thoughts about Kira living/dying by calling them Kira haters...

[Jurojin]

The problem with your whole point DDBen is quite simple. Kira should not be the main character of GSD. Fukada is an idiot, and did what the Kira-fans/psychos and the $$ from sales suggested- keep Kira in there.

But Kira was the star of Seed, his only role in GSD so far has been "OMFG PWNZORS!" Killing Kira off would have only helped GSD. Maybe if they did it before 34, to give more time for the impact of it all to sink in. Like, during the 1st Lacus assassination attempt, he takes a fatal bullet for her, which moves Lacus to do other things, secret war against ZAFT or something. Or switch roles, Lacus gets killed because Kira couldn't protect her, then he goes all cyborg with Freedom and starts going after all ZAFT forces, forcing a final confrontation with Athrun/Shinn, with Kira dying, then moving forward with the Destiny Plan et al.


Shinn is supposed to be whom GSD was supposed to focus on, or even maybe have Athrun be the focus. But because of following the sales model instead of good gripping plot, GSD is FUBAR.

Kenshin w/o Kenshin is not Kenshin.
Samurai Deeper Kyo w/o Kyo is not SDK.
Gundam w/o Amuro is not Gundam.
Gundam Seed w/o Kira is not Gundam Seed.

Gundam Seed Destiny w/o Kira, however, should still be able to be GSD. Not @ this point because of Fuckup-ada, but it should have been.





And I still stand that what I first directed towards you was not a flame.

"Pull your head out of your arse" is a direct flame, not imagery.

Trying to dance around it isn't going to help you.

Kthnxbi.


Edit:

Honestly, as far as Gundam Seed goes, they could have killed Kira, and focused on Athrun since, well, he's also a main character of Seed. Would have made for a completely different ending and turn of events, but, realistically, they could have pulled it off, since I'm sure that Athrun has a pretty stable and large fanbase all his own. (if we follow your profit based logic)

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
The problem with your whole point DDBen is quite simple. Kira should not be the main character of GSD. Fukada is an idiot, and did what the Kira-fans/psychos and the $$ from sales suggested- keep Kira in there.

But Kira was the star of Seed, his only role in GSD so far has been "OMFG PWNZORS!" Killing Kira off would have only helped GSD. Maybe if they did it before 34, to give more time for the impact of it all to sink in. Like, during the 1st Lacus assassination attempt, he takes a fatal bullet for her, which moves Lacus to do other things, secret war against ZAFT or something. Or switch roles, Lacus gets killed because Kira couldn't protect her, then he goes all cyborg with Freedom and starts going after all ZAFT forces, forcing a final confrontation with Athrun/Shinn, with Kira dying, then moving forward with the Destiny Plan et al.


Actually I don't believe Kira should be the lead of GSD and I don't disagree with him having a smaller or nonexistant role in the series. The only issue lies in Fukuda making GSD another global war. Which with the very short amount of time between GS and GSD made it impossible for him not to include Kira as a major player. The moment in episode 1 we saw a battle with Freedom VS a druggie it was determined that Kira was going to have a major roll in the series why else would Shinn have a flashback directly involving him.



Originally posted by: Jurojin
Shinn is supposed to be whom GSD was supposed to focus on, or even maybe have Athrun be the focus. But because of following the sales model instead of good gripping plot, GSD is FUBAR.


Shinn is a Character in GSD he is not who the series is aimed to be about. The series is based on a global conflict with many major players and Shinn just happened to be the one they had to develope the most for him to have a creadable role. This is not Gundam Seed Shinn and its been shown that Destiny is a refernce to the Destiny plan and not to Shinn's Gundam that was mearly one of those twists you complain don't exist.



Originally posted by: Jurojin
Gundam Seed Destiny w/o Kira, however, should still be able to be GSD. Not @ this point because of Fuckup-ada, but it should have been.


If this whole series started differntly I would agree fully that this series could survive without Kira. However Shinn is hated by fans nobody cares about watching him. Athrun , Calgari, Lacus and essentially other major player from GS could not be involved without Kira being involved. Also the OAV's showed many of the main characters still spending time together as such it was a all or nothing situation with using old characters. I would have prefered a smaller conflict with Cameo's of the characters as opposed to them making it impossible to focus on anything as they have about 50 characters they are trying to develope and are wasting as much time as possible on recaps.

[ChaosK]

kira should've came back and i dont think the role he has right now is too big but you cant exactly say h e's a bigger character in GSD than shinn is. we've probably seen more battles with shinn, this is what kira did.

-talked about shit
-owned a couple of twits going for lacus
-talk about more shit for 10 episodes
-appears in a battle in which heine dies
-more talking about justice and freedom and liberty and oh my god shut up!
-fights against destroy
-brief shit talk
-gets owned by shinn
-talks about how he's powerless for more episodes
-gets SF and owns everybody in space
-disappears
-reappears in the battle against orb and has an equal fight against rey+shinn.
-talking about shit ever since.

[DDBen]

The real issue people are having with Kira is he's out of Fiance's to steal so he's stuck in the mode he got Lacus with instead of selfloathing Kira that came along with stealing Fllay from Sai. Now if only Shinn and Lunimaria get engaged or Dullindale and Talia then Kira has a reason to go steal another fiance. Given Meyrin and Lunamaria are the most likely ones as they are redheads which he clearly prefers.

[Strike Freedom]

LOL, I love this thread. As I stated before, and I will state again, this is all Fukuda's fault. Others have pointed it out as well. Fukuda has turned us, the good loving Gundam fans, against each other because of his lousy take on GSD.

[smurfyy]

freakin morons, its not that i love kira and squeez a kira plushtoy everytime i see gsd, but if he was killed off, why dont u mind as well end the freakin series? without kira/AA, then zaft wins handsdown. There would be no Lacus army cuz she'll be dead since Kira's dead. and who says kira hasnt changed since GS? i happened to notice that the once crying-all-the-time kira, the kid that could only take comfort from a whore, has totally matured in GSD to depend on himself and his mobile.
and yes, fukuda suks, the plot was too much like GS. giving stellar back to the other side, hugeass cannon targetting the enemy..etc...

[masamuneehs]

Smurf, my problem isn't so much with the fact that Kira survived what should have surely been a fatal blow (which does piss me off too) but HOW he and Lacus faction have been infallible for most of GSD. They are constantly portrayed as the only ones doing the right thing. Not only does this lofty pedestal piss me off, defaming the serious and mistake-ridden mode of previous Gundam series, but I can't agree with their rationale. And all the garbage Fukuda pulls to get the AA repaired, to have top notch Gundams manufactured by an unidentified Factory, to have Kira always save the day, has gotten old so fast.

And the closer the series gets to the end, the part that's supposed to be the best, we just get more of Lacus' and Kira's speeches, more righteous conviction from the AA crew, more Maryu and Mwu sappiness, and more of Kira obviously saving the day and hardly getting scratched in battle. I, and many others, feel cheated. And the number one figure in the show that can be blamed is Kira, because he's largely been at the center of the series, and the downfall of the Seed series has thus been linked to Kira's downfall and the fact that his personality has remained quite stagnant since the beginning of Destiny.

[DDBen]

@Masamuneehs

I think you are highly downplaying SEVERAL of the issues that make GSD so bad at this point and the vast majority of them have NOTHING to do with Kira, Lacus or the AA.

#1. Neo aka Mwu is alive at all when they blantantly went out of there way in GS to make sure and show that he died a heroic death at the end. This should also fall in with the fact that his ms while sut in half and exploding gingerly dumped him in a open field. es Kira cut apart the suit and I don't support that move in the series in anyway but the issue here is that not only should he not have existed he should have died with Stellar. We haven't even seen him once show any remorse for sending her off to her death to kill as many people as possible . I think that Neo in turn clearly wins the most unbelieveable character award for the series.

#2 Rey even existing. I mean come on Raul was already a close why on earth would you start a series with EXACTLY the same character that you once again killed in the end of seed. Not only that but for a ace pilot who it was argued should have had impulse instead of Shinn he has essentially done NOTHING during the series aside from the raid on the moon base in Legend where he killed Djibril but none the less he still did nothing but take out cannon fodder suits.

#3 the EA MS design during the series. Considering that strike and the 4 other prototypes were all EA suits in the first place why in gods name is Zaft the one who is using the system they represent. Impulse in general is a abomination that should not be around. Now aside from the EA Orb who is suppose to be a superpower in tech has shown NOTHING even remotely above the level of cannon fodder. There best suit is basically shiney and reflects stuff and is one of a kind while there military is equiped with outdated garbage. Also lets not forget the overuse of relatively useless mobile armors by the EA including destroy and those spider things with the 4 legs. I just will never fathom how the minds who came up with all 5 of the orignal gundams and all the druggie suits has made no advancements in the last 3 years without completely blantant designf flaws.

#4 Why must we once again be forced to watch 3 prototype suits get stolden from zaft which obviously passed there combat test runs(as impulse had a significantly hard time dealing with them). Yet the only one who uses any of those suits again is the clyne faction who has no right to even have one of them. If that wasn't bad enough we have the Gouf put into mass production seemingly out of the blue and all of Zafts elite pilots being equiped with them.

#5 A complete lack of developement for ANYONE in GSD. Instead of developement we get the following choices for a character.
A) those reinacting Seed
B) Those who come in like they are going to do something new and bring life to the series who in turn either die off quickly or remain virtually unchanged from intro to current.
C) Those who they introduce and then just kind of discarded, either by dealth or just misuse.. Sure every once in a while were subjected to them but they add nothing to the story and really only prevent other characters from developement.
D) Those who were in Seed and really have no place in GSD but hell Fukuda needs to sell more models. So not only will they be involved but every possible chance will be taken to give them a differn't MS.
E) Those who had absolutely no part what so ever in Gundam Seed yet 3 years later they are vetren pollotitions and people of power.

Frankly there are more and feel free to add but I'm done for the moment on this.

[smurfyy]

@masamuneehs
sure, i thought that kira shouldved died as well when impulse gutted freedom. but he didnt. hell, half the major characters in GS and GSD shouldnt have survived the ordeals they went through. the whole archangel crew should be dead, athrun should be dead (who the fuk can survive an self destruct explosion even if they're ejecting). Hell, mind as well say that the whole minerva crew should be dead as well, since they also pulled some impossible stunts and was stil able to repair despite the odds.

[Miro69]

fukuda should die. that is all.

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: Miro69
fukuda should die. that is all.

That's one of the best answers i've read out of all that have been posted in this thread i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: smurfyy
@masamuneehs
sure, i thought that kira shouldved died as well when impulse gutted freedom. but he didnt. hell, half the major characters in GS and GSD shouldnt have survived the ordeals they went through. the whole archangel crew should be dead, athrun should be dead (who the fuk can survive an self destruct explosion even if they're ejecting). Hell, mind as well say that the whole minerva crew should be dead as well, since they also pulled some impossible stunts and was stil able to repair despite the odds.

you can survive a self destruct explosion if u have a jetpack... as athrun did. why does he have a jetpack? to escape when his gundam is about to explode, thats the whole point of having one. now how kira survived is a mystery. of course we all know GS is all messed up cuz of fukada. GSD better go over 50 eps or else there is no way they could fit in everything.

[Mite Gai]

Only way Fukuda can make the series just a poor one (right now its at piece of shit dissapointment) is to do an ending like the original GS one except now Mwu and Ramius have to live since it would look even more stupid to have him come back for nothing. He needs to have the Eternal take a hit from Requiem or something to save PLANT and then have Kira go out like Gato in 0083.

[Strike Freedom]

In all actuality, Fukuda might still have a chance at saving this series with an OVA or movie once the 50 eps. r up. But, I mean, look who we're talking about here....that's about as a good a chance at happening as it is for the cubs to win a world series i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

[Mite Gai]

If you really look at it, even SEED was subpar and this one just got terrible, lol though it would be funny it he actually managed to "save" this series with OVA.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

if fukuda does make an OVA then it's probably going to be hella stupid just like that 10 minute OVA fukuda made after seed

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
you can survive a self destruct explosion if u have a jetpack... as athrun did. why does he have a jetpack? to escape when his gundam is about to explode, thats the whole point of having one. now how kira survived is a mystery. of course we all know GS is all messed up cuz of fukada. GSD better go over 50 eps or else there is no way they could fit in everything.

The explination for how Kira survived is contained in one of the Astray manga's that basically exist to put stucko in the plot holes that seed contains.

[Marcis]

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
In all actuality, Fukuda might still have a chance at saving this series with an OVA or movie once the 50 eps. r up. But, I mean, look who we're talking about here....that's about as a good a chance at happening as it is for the cubs to win a world series
I smell GSD trilogy movie coming...
Don't you all?
OVA or extra movie MIGHT improve GSD a little, but it can't save whole show

[Gangrel]

Originally posted by: DDBen


Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
you can survive a self destruct explosion if u have a jetpack... as athrun did. why does he have a jetpack? to escape when his gundam is about to explode, thats the whole point of having one. now how kira survived is a mystery. of course we all know GS is all messed up cuz of fukada. GSD better go over 50 eps or else there is no way they could fit in everything.

The explination for how Kira survived is contained in one of the Astray manga's that basically exist to put stucko in the plot holes that seed contains.

As more dumb the explanation will be (and i know it prolly will), I would like to hear it. So, do u have any links for these mangas?

Another note:

I don't understand why they created Shinn if not to kill him, because he is an ass, don't have any character development, and seems his live is just tragic losts. So, I would say Luna and Shinn will die for the sake of the show? Nah, prolly Fukuda is wetting on his pants to kill anyone even the DOM Troopers LOL

[coud656]

Hi minna!! ^_^ I'm new so hello =D

And now to the topic!*dum dum dum*
I have been visiting this place for awhile and just read thru all 3 pages of this thread and wow it was fun XD

Well we all know Kira is Fukuda's sex toy and that he will do anything for the sake of model sales...and i read somewhere in this thread that Kira lost to noone but Shinn...well your wrong there cause he lost to Athrun in GS and face it it was a fair fight dont bother making any excuses.Lets take a look shall we?

:SEED:
Kira killed Nicole and made Athrun go crazy but that was only after he retreated and had that emotional breakdown about how he was suppose to die and not Nicole,then during the battle Athrun had to go against Kira and tolle who was doing quite well in a skygrasper and thiks put Athrun to a disadvabtage against Kira.He succesfully skewered Tolle with his shield and made Kira go SEED so in return he went SEED for the first time as well and he would have killed Kira if he didnt run out of PS(definately a plot device).Then he opted for the self destruct option which would actually leace Kira dead but if i remember in SEED Astray it shows that Lowe was watching the battle between Kira and Athrun and rescued a bloody Kira that was lying on the beach half dead.To me this states that Athrun was actually the better pilot when he puts his heart into it but sadly that potential magically dissapeared because Kira was Fukuda's sex toy...and if i remember correctly Fukuda's original plan was for Kira to die in the eng of GS and Athrun losing an arm but it was quickly rethought because of fans

And now in GSD Kira survived a stab right below his cockpit and somehow magically got the plot device called "Nucleur Reactor off" button which i'm sure everyone is wondering how it got there..it just seems GSD became a bad show because of Kira,and i'm sure if he died then the plot would drastically change since its not real life..Lacus wouldnt be in danger or would somehow survive by going to earth,Cagalli would get lucky and dodge Destiny at the last second,Athrun would definately have healed faster..or could be something else and everyone dies but that will never happen since the fanbase for almost all the SEED characters are higher than the GSD ones...and its not that true that Shinn is hated by the fans..only we hate Shinn but not the people in Japan.Fukuda wouldnt really give a fuck about us but mainly about Japanese kids watching the show and in Japan if i remember Kira is still number 1 followed by Athrun then Shinn not to far behind...if you call this hated then I don't know what despised for you could be..well thats all for me gotta go study PMR exams coming liao
BYE BYE hope to see every1 soon =D

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: coud656
Well we all know Kira is Fukuda's sex toy and that he will do anything for the sake of model sales...and i read somewhere in this thread that Kira lost to noone but Shinn...well your wrong there cause he lost to Athrun in GS and face it it was a fair fight dont bother making any excuses.Lets take a look shall we?

:SEED:
Kira killed Nicole and made Athrun go crazy but that was only after he retreated and had that emotional breakdown about how he was suppose to die and not Nicole,then during the battle Athrun had to go against Kira and tolle who was doing quite well in a skygrasper and thiks put Athrun to a disadvabtage against Kira.He succesfully skewered Tolle with his shield and made Kira go SEED so in return he went SEED for the first time as well and he would have killed Kira if he didnt run out of PS(definately a plot device).Then he opted for the self destruct option which would actually leace Kira dead but if i remember in SEED Astray it shows that Lowe was watching the battle between Kira and Athrun and rescued a bloody Kira that was lying on the beach half dead.To me this states that Athrun was actually the better pilot when he puts his heart into it but sadly that potential magically dissapeared because Kira was Fukuda's sex toy...and if i remember correctly Fukuda's original plan was for Kira to die in the eng of GS and Athrun losing an arm but it was quickly rethought because of fans

welcome to the forums!! man your post is the best i've read so far this past week, athrun definitely beated kira, so for all those people who still think kira won or it was a draw, go to hell!!

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: coud656
Hi minna!! ^_^ I'm new so hello =D

And now to the topic!*dum dum dum*
I have been visiting this place for awhile and just read thru all 3 pages of this thread and wow it was fun

Yo Coud656! Welcome aboard as AthRun OwNZall just recently stated. I enjoyed reading your post, as you point out some valid information for all to read. I am a Kira fan (but as it was said I do not have a plush doll that I hug as I am watching this series of him nor would I want a blow up doll of him unlike certain people :evili/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif. As a Kira fan, I would like to state for the record that Kira is not a god as made out to be by some people. Kira did lose to both Athrun and Shinn in GS and GSD. Of course, he made a come back. But the point is, he has lost before and made it out alive out of almost every certain death (if only life was that kind as Fukuda). So I hope this bickering of "he lost/he didn't" comes to an end. Or might have already and i'm just adding gasoline to the fire.....i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[masamuneehs]

Strike Freedom, the gas you added to the open wounds of those who really thought it was utter garbage that Kira survived the destruction of Freedom is old. We're quite used to people rubbing it in that Kira has lost before, therefore he is not some God.

It's a combo of Kira's immortality and Lacus' constantly-superior idealistic speeches (so much like dullindal's i believe, except she has nowhere near the same ambition to lead others) that have swelled the corps of Kira/Lacus Haters.

I know everyone will have different opinions. I loved Kira in the original SEED series. He had flare, was constantly struggling to figure out what to do, showed alot of emotion, was used and confused etc. Destiny's Kira lacks a great deal of these things. and it is getting old, him always using the SF or Freedom's interface to disarm dozens of enemies at a time, then drolling on and on about "doing the right thing".

I don't have anything againt Kira fans, except the narrowminded ones (and there are ones in every character's following), I solely blame Fukuda and the anime creators for using him the way they did in destiny.

[DDBen]

First off if anyone can tell me ANYTHING Athrun gained in a battle where all he managed to do was injure Kira and damage strike at the cost of not 1 but 2 elite units and a redcoat I'm listening.

That whole mess aside as were getting nowhere with it. Anyone who thinks GSD would be better if they killed Kira is still not addressing the most basic problem with GSD. Killing someone to improve a plot that you screwed up isn't a solution and Kira isn't even the issue as most of you atleast have stated you LIKED Kira in GS. This clearly shows that the problem is rooted in the entire story of GSD down to episode 1 with the creation of Shinn. I've already stated several issue with episode one and then not including Kira in the story.

Now explain to me whats wrong with the actions taken by Kira and the AA in the first place. Here is a simple breakdown of cause and effect.

Step 1: Kira and Lacus are living with all the random kids they picked up generally avoiding politics and the military Junius 7 is dropped and Zaft attempts to stop it with some help from Athrun.
Reaction: Kira has a heart to heart with Shinn at the memorial and Orb supports the repairs of the Minerva.

Step 2: Someone attempts to assassinate Lacus who at this point has done nothing.
Reaction: Kira uses Freedom to defend Lacus and the others living with him.

Step 3: Kira's sister is forced into a arranged marriage with a complete jackass and said jackass has orb join the EA thus changing it from neutral over to taking a side.
Reaction Kira grabs his sister and the AA takes off to essentially see what happens caught between what sounds right and the fact Zaft tried to kill Lacus.

Step 4: Orb is forced to act and is asked to support the EA in attacking Zaft.
Reaction Calgari asks Kira for aid in stopping the battle and attempts to talk Orb out of supporting the EA period as they should be neutral.

Step 4.5: Random talk with Athrun that lunimaria watches it essentially have been meaningless except the picture of Athrun with the others is later used by dullindale.

Step 5: Orb is forced to continue persuit of Zaft and they have the Minerva cornered. It is about to shoot off its main gun but at this point its still at a extreme disadvantage.
Reaction: Calgari asks Kira once again to attempt to get Orb to not fight for either side on the words of lacus who basically tells them to finish what they started. Essentially at this time I think its fairly safe to say the Minerva was saved by the AA's actions allowing the pilots to all survive. However Kira did disable a LOT of the Minerva's defensive capabilities so its argueable atleast that the battle could have gone either way.

Step 6: Shinn hands back Stellar over to the EA and she is handed destroy which she uses to kill off hundreds of thousands if not millions of people without any reguard to weather or not they are even remotely involved in the war.
Reaction: Kira not only takes out Destroy while sparring Stellar from dying immediately atleast. He also clearly saves Shinn's life as at this point Shinn is hopelessly outmatched by Destroy.

Step 7: The AA is cornered by Zaft (don't ask me how as they had no forces left in the area but anywa).
Reaction : The AA and Freedom attempt to escape without shooting back. This tactic makes no sense as Kira is clearly disabling mobile suits and reguardless of if the AA shoots I see no reason Dullindale couldn't already modify this footage as he did with that of the Destroy battle to make it look like they did fight back. Kira loses Freedom for whatever reason (note I didn't like this fight but heck Kira lost a Nuclear MS and Shinn lost a few fliers so Shinn clearly came out on top).

Step 7: After a lot of pointless speaches and watching video's we move on to Eternal being attacked.
Reaction Kira takes Strike Rogue and basically demolishes it only to have Lacus pull a shiney new Strike freedom out of her ass. Then procedes to take care of all those attacking in a stupidly short period of time.
Sidenote: This one made no sense at all as Zaft new where the factory was and being it didn't look to mobile AND the Zaft pilots and ships were only disabled why didn't Dullindale just send a bigger force to finish the Job.

Step 8i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gifrb is attacked directly by plant.
Reaction: Basically KIra defends plant and now we see that IJ and SF have no need for any extrashielding from heat and they take aboslutely no time to reach the ground from space for whatever reason. This is also the first time that Athrun acts directly against Zaft in a MS as last time he was simply running.

From then on all thats happened so far is Meer dying and frankly she deserved that and all it managed to do was waste not 1 but 2 episodes out of the last 5.

Overall I don't think anything thats been done had been unreasonable. I do think its been way to predictable and essentially the entire plot of the series is really just thin and bad. Now if we go back and take out the Lacus assassination attempt and Meer while were at it. We can have a much better plot with Kira sitting on his ass in orb until its attacked OR not having him participate in a fight until Destroy is used. If we wait until Destroy then it definatly makes the plot more believeable as now Shinn would have a real reason to question why there attacking Orb after they just aided Zaft in preventing any more civilians from being killed for no reason. Right now we have no reason for Shinn to defect aside from Athrun and the Kira/Rey matter would develope reguardless of anything else. This also allows us 30 episodes to get use to the new cast with only Athrun really taking a center role.

[aznimperialx]

i agree with DBen

[Strike Freedom]

DBen, nice job buddy, your points are valid and do make sense.

Now, as to why I believe that Athuran did win (as much as it hurts to admit i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif ). I answer with a question: who disabled/destroyed who's suit? Athuran did in fact destroy Kira's suit, as well as losing his in the process. Now, I do admit that both pilots survived and both suits were destroyed, allowing for the idea of a draw to be realized. At the same time, the way I look at it is that Athuran did in fact stop Kira and at the same time stopped himself. However, Athuran is the one who put an end to the fight. Therefore, I believe Athuran is the slight victor in this battle. HOWEVER, the almighty Fukuda had Kira survive, thus allowing what would seemingly be a draw. So, does this mean I believe that Athuran won and at the same time didn't win. Perhaps, my main point is that there is a grey area that allows for speculation. It all depends on a person's view on the facts (what they see). So, Athuran won the battle for a while, as long as most of us assumed he was dead in the series. Then, when Kira is still alive, it's a draw. YET, Athuran did stop Strike, even at the cost of his own mobile suit. Once again, I stress there is no right or wrong answer, but from my opinion Ahturan wins that battle.

[Gangrel]

Originally posted by: DDBen
Step 6: Shinn hands back Stellar over to the EA and she is handed destroy which she uses to kill off hundreds of thousands if not millions of people without any reguard to weather or not they are even remotely involved in the war.
Reaction: Kira not only takes out Destroy while sparring Stellar from dying immediately atleast. He also clearly saves Shinn's life as at this point Shinn is hopelessly outmatched by Destroy.


Actually that's the only thing I would like to disagree on ur post. I do think Shinn was doing fine against Destroy (I hate him but he was doing good). Kira hadn't done a scratch in destroy since he arrived, and then Shinn arrives, and already slice up near the cockpit almost killing Stellar (would be awesome if he did kill her). Then Neo comes up and mess up with the boy, who is already mentally unstable.

Pretty much the actions of AA weren't bad, I just didn't like for em to reuse same crew, characters of first series when there are so many other characters to explore. Fukuda just looks like a kid with lots of toys and don't know what to do with em.

I think AA had done its part on Seed, it didn't have to come back. As for the characters I do think Kagari was important to appear on 2nd Season (leader of ORB of course she has a major role). Athrun? Yes, but not with the same development of the other series. Kira? Maybe bring him back in the end of the series, but not to be a major role of being a god mode inside a MS. Lacus? I would prefer she was killed since 1st episode... Maybe also some show ups of AA crew OUTSIDE AA, not inside doing the same thing all over again.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Gangrel
Actually that's the only thing I would like to disagree on ur post. I do think Shinn was doing fine against Destroy (I hate him but he was doing good). Kira hadn't done a scratch in destroy since he arrived, and then Shinn arrives, and already slice up near the cockpit almost killing Stellar (would be awesome if he did kill her). Then Neo comes up and mess up with the boy, who is already mentally unstable.

Shinn was doing fine with Destroy destracted by Kira he indeed landed the first blow however the direct issue is that once he realised that Stellar was the pilot he froze and when Kira stabbed it with the beam sabers in the chest. Which is what ultimately took down Destroy. Shinn was standing directly in the path of the chest Cannon unable/unwilling to defend himself. There is Zero question a direct hit meant he would have been killed and the Minerva with no other Mobile suits would have been a sitting duck for destroy considering the only weapon it had that MIGHT work against it is the tripple barreled cannon that can't seem to hit anything.

@Strike Freedom.
Understand I do see your points however. Strike was salvaged and later used by Mwu that was NOT a new mobile suit like Strike Rouge. Also even if you want to say that Athrun and Kira 1 on 1 was slightly in Athruns favor you can't deney Blitz was a much greater loss to Zaft then a Skygrasper with a virtually untrained pilot putting the advantage in the fight right back in Kira's favor both in result and during the actual fight considering had Blitz not jumped in then Athrun could have been either taken out at that point or later have lacked the will to go Seed.

[Strike Freedom]

DDBen, I agree with every point u made. But, I am just considering their battle, and not anything before or after that battle (with the exception of Kira still being alive which must be included).

But no quarrels on my side from what you said i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[coud656]

Hi again and DDBen there is no proof that Shinn WOULD have died to the Destroy for all we know he could have dodged at the last second...and yes Blitz was a major loss but not to ZAFT since they didn't even build it and already had the plans for it...if they wanted they could just recreate the Blitz IMO =O and yes Athrun could have died,been injured or better yet taken hostage if Nicole didnt go in and save his ass but i doubt it would have made any difference in his will to go SEED even if Nicole didn't jump in unless he died then wouldnt be able to go SEED but Fukuda wouldnt kill of the main character's best friend since Athrun also had some high fan rankings in Japan just below Kira if i remember =O and any unit will make a difference on a battlefield even if your a ZAFT redcoat...its basically like real life an ace fighter vs another ace fighter that is the so called "Ultimate Coordinator" and one of his friends that also has some exceptional battle skills since Tolle got good scores in the training if i remember...and from reading your post I think you misunderstand that the fight where nicole died and Tolle died were separate(sorry if u know plz forgive me >_&lti/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Miro69]

let's get back to the topic here people. fukuda should die >i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif

[coud656]

Lol yeah one of the best answers so far in this entire topic...fukuda must die lol =D

[Strike Freedom]

Ok, if anyone saw the latest episode (48) then they will understand how much I abhor FUKUDA!!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif Leave it to him to fuck up this series yet again. I cannot stress how disappointing this episode was. I do not mind talking, but not for the whole fucking episode, we've had enough of that in the last few episodes. There is not enough time to finish this series off. I fear a horrible ending with yet more holes than the first series. Further, the series at this point is too predictable. I'm just sick and tired of this BS talk. I thank Fukuda for destroying what little hope I had to rejuvinate the series. I hope many of you are just as pissed if not more!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Splash!]

i hope the mods will overlook this display of vulgarity but

FUCK FUKUDA! FUCK FUKUDA! FUCK FUKUDA!

A million times over

[masamuneehs]

Wait DDben, just wait a second there!



Originally posted by: DDBen
Anyone who thinks GSD would be better if they killed Kira is still not addressing the most basic problem with GSD. Killing someone to improve a plot that you screwed up isn't a solution and Kira isn't even the issue as most of you atleast have stated you LIKED Kira in GS. <u>This clearly shows that the problem is rooted in the entire story of GSD down to episode 1 with the creation of Shinn. </u>




Are you seriously saying that the problem with GSD comes from Shinn? Are you actually serious?

If you think introducing a new central character to the story is what made GSD suck, you are terribly terribly mistaken. Bringing in Shinn, a new character makes several good points and opened up GSD to some good opportunities:

1. It shows that even unintended or accidental effects of war can drastically change the future. Shinn would never have been a major character without his family getting killed at Onogoro. He probably would have never joined the military. War is hell because innocent people get caught up in it and then their survivors are fueled with bitter vengence and can even make the next war worse.

2. If Shinn was needed as a central character, it shows that they really had run out of things to do with Kira, personality wise.

3. Shinn's imperfections are one of the more refreshing aspects of GSD. Yes he is a crybaby, moody, and sometimes vain about his accomplishments. BUT this is what can so easily happen to an "ace" in wartime.

4. Obviously all of Kira's actions were understandable when you consider the circumstances from his POV. But to blame Shinn for it is wrong. Shinn did not choose to do anything except follow orders. Dullindal can be pointed to as the catalyst behind most of Kira's actions, but that is because FUKUDA NEEDED SOMEONE TO FORCE KIRA BACK OUT ONTO THE SCENE. Fukuda obviously wants to make Kira the reluctant hero, the peace-loving high-minded nice guy who is forced by his enemies moves to fight. He has used ZAFT, Yuna Roma, and others to make this occur. Such things are PLOT DEVICES, not attributable to the characters.

Kira's actions are quite predictable because every situation he is put in is so stilted and painfully constructed so that Kira and AA only have one real option open to them.

The whole problem with GSD is that it has been so linear and filled with black and white contrasts that the only interesting aspects of it have been the fights, occasional side characters, and the regular razzle-dazzle of bringing back old characters.

GSD's suckiness cannot be attributed to any member of the cast, least of all the new characters that could have been drawn on to make GSD not just a rehashed version of SEED.

GSD sucks because it was made to generate money and to leech off of the Gundam name and a very previous series. It is painfully obvious that not much thought was put into the plot, and that the object was monetary gain.

[Terracosmo]

Don't bother with DDBen. It's like talking to a wall, except that walls aren't Kira fanboys hell bent to defy logic &amp; throw shit at Shinn for random reasons as often as they can.

[coud656]

Dude how can the creation of Shinn be a problem??To me it was after the episode about that first recap FAITH or something....after that only did GSD go downhill into shitsville...and Shinn didn't do anything if you want to blame someone go for Fukuda but he probably won't even listen since his main objective for creating GSD was actually to just get cash since GS was the first series for the 20th century and that it got famous so he just made this sequel for the sake of making one and earning cash while sitting on his fat ass...and as masamuneehs said all the people that manipulated Shinn and what not are just plot devices since they can't think of anything more to do with Kira.It just proves that is the reason why Shinn became the new lead for the first half and Kira again later cause the fans just wanna see him beat stuff in Freedom or Strike Freedom and orgasm themselves...and from what I see your a major Kira fan so you must hate and detest Shinn...well you may get your happy ending since this maybe a Zeta ending but i'm not going to spoil it since it may be called spoilers but if you really wanna know go watch Zeta unless u have watched it already

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

i think it was the return of lacus in seed destiny that is the problem, darn you stupid assassins!! why didn't you freaking kill her?!?!

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL
i think it was the return of lacus in seed destiny that is the problem, darn you stupid assassins!! why didn't you freaking kill her?!?!


I would say the fault lies with the return of the Fukuda i/expressions/beer.gif

[SkyGodFallacy]

Yes, GSD would've been better off with Kira dying when he fought Shinn, my god this is becoming more like DBZ, Death has no meaning! Also muu shouldve stayed dead, Neo should be a clone, in the interests of adhering to in some capacity to the meaning of death. Think about it tho now iam not a kira hater, hell i dont even hate shinn, althought his character confuses me sometimes (IE why would he want to destroy Orb so much, i thought that having experienced his family dying en masse he wouldnt want to cause that pain for anyone one else living in that country or anywhere else for that matter, i suppose its beyond me tho) but with Kira getting killed, that would add a whole new dynamic to the storyline, there you have the revenge factor going for Athrun, ah hes another alternative, Kira didnt physically die when Shinn owned him, he just became a vegetable, i kinda like this one, all the emotional pain, now Kira cant communicate at all, hes just a shadow of his former self, also hes horriblely burned too, christ you would expect a character in a japanese show to have some realism in regards to surviving an nuclear explosion. Now you have all these deep and emotional issues for the characters to deal with, now that my friends would make an amazing show, think of the depth and the resolve that would stem from it.

Also why the hell is Fukuda so goddamned lazy with character development, christ, Meyrin and Lunamarie, honestly, who are they? Can someone tell me, i dont know, no one knows. They have no character at all. They just exist, thats all, thats it. Also with the 3 druggies from Seed, same thing, they guys come out of no where, its almost as if, fukuka thought damn i gotta create 3 new pilots, oh christ the deadline is tomorrow, oh well, i dont respect my fans at all unless they are part of the pokemon demograph, screw the back story completely, the hell with it.

ok even tho this is a rant topic i like to be fair tho, I must say I do enjoy the art work in the series, like anyone else, i do enjoy seeing the grunts get killed by the hundreds in 30 secs, that just facinates me, as well as the whole thing with the lasers, i like how its animated, how the picture sometimes flashes entirely the color of the laser for effect. I also liked the whole sequence when Kira gets Strike-Freedom, i liked the light effects and the flashy moves when he easily disables his enemies, i must have watched that 10 times and slowed down to see the frames at some of the more interesting scenes. But what I cant stand is lazyiness and cutting corners, I hate it, i hate seeing the same goddamned scene showed a dozen times, like a gouf firing a beam from the rifle, then later on having 4 superimposed on one basically firing the beam the exact same way, i know its saves money, but where do you draw the line with that and all the other examples of it you can think of.

Also iam enjoying the whole philosopical debate about the destiny plan, it seems like an interesting issue and as well as a solution to the problems in not only the GSD universe but the real life one as well, that may be the shows savings grace for me, but then again, i may complain, but that wont stop me from watching and seeing how this train wreck ends.

[Freki]

If Kira dies in 34, and AA and ORB and Eternal all somehow survived everything that hs happened since then, it would still just be Athrun against Rey and Shinn. As we saw before, Kira was almost beat by Shinn and Rey and Athrun had to fly out injured in order to save him. I doubt Athrun would fair any better, especially in space where the DRAGOON system can be used. Kira dying in 34 does nothing but make ZAFT an unbeatable force. I think that Kira dying in 34 would have made the show far worse, sure Kira's friends could have their time dealing with Kira's death before they realize they are hopelessly outmanned for the rest of the show. the show has been building up to a 2ace v 2ace finale since the beginning and to suddenly remove 1 of the ace pilots with less then 20 episodes to go would disrupt the storyline more then it helps. If Kira was removed some other pilot would need to be removed in the interest of a huge final battle that wouldn't just be one side beating the shit out of another for a few episodes, the only person who could be removed then is Rey since Athrun would be needed to maintain Orbs strength and of Shinn and Rey, Rey is easier to get rid of.

[heero]

Let me predict what Fukuda will do for ending...Kira, Lacus, Athrun, Shinn all live happily ever after. Rey and Gil die horribly. The End.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

after watching gundam seed all over again i've come to the conclusion that it's the best gundam series ever created and gundam seed destiny is crap compared to it's original but it's still better than most gundam series but gundam seed is still the best. how the hell can fukuda make the best gundam series of all time then make a sequal and turn that into crap compared to it's first??? i wonder how people in japan are feeling right now...

[Strike Freedom]

I am not defending Fukuda, but I do sympathize with him to a degree. I mean, the guy is basically (in my opinion) to go with the way of the popular crowd. Perhaps he did want to do things differently. But that is what really gets me upset, he should just have the balls to do what he feels like. So in a way, I do feel pity for him in that respect ONLY. I do not feel pity for th money he's making off of this crappy series and how he's chosen to let down the fans of a GREAT series!

[Splash!]

that is quite true, i mean lets face the facts, there are way too many kira and lacus fanboys. Maybe Fukuda really wanted to do something about the series but all these stupid fans were probably pestering him to show more Kira and Lacus footage. He succumbed to the pressure and the result is this horrible series we have before us. I mean there are also so many people out there who are actually happy that there is so much of kira and lacus to go around in the series and the probably think GSD is the most awesome thing

[heero]

I guess our lesson is never make another sequal of a series.

[Terracosmo]

Actually, I don't regret the existence of this series. Sure, I'd love it if Mwu could have stayed dead, and I'd also would have loved it if Kira didn't turn anymore godly than he already was in Seed... but regardless, Destiny has given us Heine, Auel &amp; several cool action episodes and mechas. And the occasional sob, too. It's regrettable that the series took the turn it did during it's latter half, but all in all, I'm glad it was made. Although I still want Fukuda's corpse hanging from a tree.

[RedX1z]

not that i hate kira or like him that much, but they just drew the line when it came to main characters. i can't remember who said it, but i believe what that guy said was true, give him a zaku and let him stand on the side somewhere. we already know all we have to know about with kira, since shin is the main character, they should've developed him more than giving kira more screen time.

[Strike Freedom]

I noticed that a lot of people seem to associate a similar loathe towards Fukuda and Kira. I will not defend Kira, since I know I would get better results beating my head over a brick wall. But give Kira some slack. It is not like he wanted to be the Ultimate Coordinator. Fukuda made him the guy, it's his fault i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

[kaigan]

if any of you were in fukuda's shoe, you would probably done the same crap that he is doing. MONEY IS POWER. DEAL WITH IT!!

[Strike Freedom]

Ah, good analysis Kaigan. But this thread is about venting out against Fukuda, as illigoical as it may seem, or whatever you want to call it.

[Marcis]

Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL
after watching gundam seed all over again i've come to the conclusion that it's the best gundam series ever created and gundam seed destiny is crap compared to it's original but it's still better than most gundam series but gundam seed is still the best. how the hell can fukuda make the best gundam series of all time then make a sequal and turn that into crap compared to it's first??? i wonder how people in japan are feeling right now...
You mean SEED is the best Gundam show EVER? i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif
Sorry, but you are overrating it a bit.
SEED is far from being worst Gundam show ever but there are better shows out there.

[Mite Gai]

SEED was mediocre not the best, and GSD is just terrible. The two just seem really good, but if you have watched a great gundam series recently then all of the faults of both are going to be pretty visible. Athrun go watch Z Gundam if you want to see the best. Oh, and just because I can rant in this topic: DIE FUKUDA! DIE! GO HANG YOURSELF AND DO THE WORLD THE GOOD YOU NEVER GAVE GSD!

[Strike Freedom]

Ok, Marcis and Mite Gai, if Seed was not the best, then which serie(s) is/were the best? I'm really just asking out of curiousity, thanks in advance. And yes, well I wouldn't wish Fukie death, I do wish that he gain so much weight that he ends up becoming a sumo wrestler, then gets splattered like a pancake by the opponent....(where the hell do I come up with some of this stuff?)

[Mite Gai]

As I already posted, Z Gundam is IMO and that of many other gundam fans. SEED was not the best by a good distance, it just breathed some fresh air into an old franchise without being truly great as Z Gundam or as terrible as GSD. If they had been more adventurous and took some risks and came out on top then the potential SEED had to beat Z Gundam would have been realized. Oh, and that Fukuda insult was one of the most random things I have ever heard lol.

P.S. Boxtorrents has a link (http://boxtorrents.com/details.php?id=127392) of it if you want to check it out. And while the animation is not as flashy as SEED the series still remains pretty solid IMO.

[Terracosmo]

Seed is still my favorite gundam. It had addicting music and animation, and a story I really liked. I hadn't seen 0079 before either, so the rip-offs didn't affect me.
In retrospect I can say that Seed isn't as much of a war drama as UC gundam is. It's more like the bastard child of a UC series and Wing, since it has the military feel (and actual deaths) of the prior, but the "each character have their own mech" aspect of the latter (and also more focusing on the characters instead of the war).

So yeah, I still love Seed over all. Actually it's my favorite show of all time.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Seed is still my favorite gundam. It had addicting music and animation, and a story I really liked. I hadn't seen 0079 before either, so the rip-offs didn't affect me.
In retrospect I can say that Seed isn't as much of a war drama as UC gundam is. It's more like the bastard child of a UC series and Wing, since it has the military feel (and actual deaths) of the prior, but the "each character have their own mech" aspect of the latter (and also more focusing on the characters instead of the war).

So yeah, I still love Seed over all. Actually it's my favorite show of all time.

you said exactly what i was thinking

EDIT: holy god, the zeta gundam dl is 16 gb!!! g gundam took me about 3 weeks, this is probably going to take a month and a half!!

EDIT 2: what the hell happened to PSJ? i am sure that he'd love these new threads that were made

[Strike Freedom]

You're right Athrun....where the heck is PSJ???

And yes, SEED is the best in my opinion out of all the Gundam series. Gundam Z is a good but it's been ages since I've seen it. And to be quite honest I was a small tike and hardly remember it. So I guess I have to rewatch it again to refresh my memory and grasp things a bit better. However, SEED would be the best so far, even though it has one of the worst directors behind it of ALL TIME!!! YEA BABY! (if you watch college football u would know who I am trying to imitate in the last part of this paragraph)

BTW (I am a Chicago SOX fan, and this is off topic but man WTF, they SUCK...they deserve to lose and I would want to c them and Fukie on a boat sinking off in the middle of the ocean while a 3 ton whale known as Dinky slams down on them from the sky)

[Marcis]

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
Ok, Marcis and Mite Gai, if Seed was not the best, then which serie(s) is/were the best? I'm really just asking out of curiousity, thanks in advance. And yes, well I wouldn't wish Fukie death, I do wish that he gain so much weight that he ends up becoming a sumo wrestler, then gets splattered like a pancake by the opponent....(where the hell do I come up with some of this stuff?)
Original Mobile Suit Gundam also called First Gundam, Movie Trilogy or TV series. I prefer movies over TV
Just because it's old does'nt mean it's bad. Shiny animation isn't everything you know...
Zeta Gundam - absolutely THE BEST Gundam show out there. I am looking forward to obtain Zeta movies which started to come out this year in Japan, 2nd movie premier in October.
Turn A Gundam - for originality
Gundam 0080 - for personal story
Others are good also, some more, some less, but enjoyable nonetheless i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
I suggest visiting Mecha and Anime HQ (http://www.mahq.net) for in-depth look into Gundam series

But for starters i suggest Mobile Suit Gundam Movie Trilogy and Zeta Gundam
Zeta you can obtain here: http://whitebase.edwardk.info/...0Gundam%201-50.torrent (http://whitebase.edwardk.info/(W_B)%20Zeta%20Gundam%201-50.torrent)
Dual language

Worst Gundam shows in my book so far:
Gundam ZZ (aka Gundam Double Zeta) - childish antics
V Gundam - i think Tomino said enough in UC, he can't bring anything new.
Destiny - nuff said, but i still hope for decent ending, two eps to go...

worst Gundam show ever in my book - absolutely awful and lame Gundam TV movie called G-Saviour. Stay away from it.

[Terracosmo]

PSJ is just being lazy. He's online almost all the time so I don't really know why he isn't posting.

[PSJ]

Here i am. Don't worry your beloved PSJ ain't gone. I just haven't had any interest discussing Destiny in a while, not much to discuss now really. Everyone agrees on that the show is bad. I haven't even watched 48 yet don't know if i will watch more until all 50 eps are released oh well.

So what's this thread about again? Oh yea that's right. Erm, i really hate what Fukuda did to Auel and Djibril, he could make those two into great characters but fucked it up just to give Shinn and Rey a kill each. He could have at least killed them off with some dignity.

[Strike Freedom]

Glad to know ur still alive and kicking PSJ. I miss arguing with u *tear drops from my eye*....man i should really stop cutting onions while i'm typing

EPISODE 50 is just a bunch of talking and fighting....gee golly....I don't even care if I watch it or not i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif

[coud656]

Looks like the last episode will be rushed so predictable &gt;_&gt; and if he kills off Luna by making Shinn kill her then it will be official...he favors Kira over Shinn since the fans will auto hate Shinn if he kills Luna
SCREW YOU FUKUDA MAY YOU DIE FROM A DESEASE CALLED CANCER!!!

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs

Are you seriously saying that the problem with GSD comes from Shinn? Are you actually serious?

If you think introducing a new central character to the story is what made GSD suck, you are terribly terribly mistaken. Bringing in Shinn, a new character makes several good points and opened up GSD to some good opportunities:.

I just got back from Vegas so excuse the delay..

I am not saying the introduction of Shinn was a mistake I have no issues with new characters. My issue with Shinn lies in his developement which is basically nonexistant. Everyone is complaining Kira shouldn't be involved and doesn't develope in the series yet at this point Shinn has NEVER developed. He started a whiney brat and thats all he remains. Every single chance he's had to develope has been blown off in order to show he's being manipulated by Rey and the result has been Shinn having the same developement over and over again to the point I can't stand him. Essentially all we have gotten from Shinn is Angst....Pick random girl to "protect"... watch her die...blame everyone else for it and angst some more. He has never taken a step past that. Also everytime the girl dies he goes out of his way to avenge her ultimately fails and just moves on to the next hoe without skipping a beat. I mean whats up with going crazy about Stellar being killed, dumping her in a lake, then having a showdown with Kira and before Stellars body even has time to get cold your killing Meyrin and Athrun and making a move on luna. Every bit of Shinn's execution and "developement" for me atleast has been painful to watch.

Now as for my statement about Shinn's introduction. All I stated here was that you can't introduceShinn and show his creation being Kira's fault and then not involve Kira. However apparently you can have Shinn not remember Freedom having anything to do with his family's death and thus close off a plot line you introduced to have a much less reasonable one turn up later.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

FUCKUDA has done it in Phase 48 and 49, 48 was boring, 49 was rushed, i believe Phase 50 will be too. I just hope he give us a decent ending. Good thing he wont get another job after this, unless there are a lot of ppl who buys the modkits i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif. YOU HEARD ME? if u hate fuckuda dont buy them. And fo the ones who surely are thinking why i type "Fuckuda", yes I renamed him, and the name i think fits him, Dont you think?

[Hakeem_21]

It would suck so much if Kira had died earlier cause Athrun is just wuss in GSD unlike in SEED and Shinn is the lamest character in anime history. I mean we understand he is angry about his family but must he be angry all the time....

He have been crying and shouting every ep.

[Kite Kirozo]

We should petition to change Fukuda's name to Fuckuda.
Must... Kill Fuckuda... and Kira.... and ..... SHINN.... needs.... to die a horrible and gruesome death. *Zombie sounds*

[KapsLocked]

Hmm... after looking at the differences between the credits of GS and GSD, I don't think the fault is actually with Fukuda. Even though he has the last say on things, the change in writers might have had more to do with it. :\

In any case, ANY change of ANY major character dying, changing heart, or whatever would have been welcome.

[Strike Freedom]

Wow is not enough to capture my shock and disillusion with this series after 43 for me. It was bad enough with fillers to throw in one more about MEER. I just want to know why those actions were taken. Why all the talk? Why all this in depth conversation when it could be done in two minutes instead of 30. I mean, quality over quantity, is the way to go. It really is a pity.

I was looking forward to Shinn's development and we get ZERO. I thought perhaps Kira would possbily develop more and we get ZERO. I thought Athuran would become even better than in SEED, and he just goes back to square one. Seriously, WTF?

I would have had more enjoyment watching SEED over than a sequel that resembles it so closely it is disgusting.

[coud656]

Fuckuda seriously needs to try and make some original ideas...if hes gonna become a director of a hit franchise like gundam he must at least have a well plooted storyline and not some piece of shit fan rating &gt;_&gt; lets just hope if there is a 3rd seed that he wont be doing it and that Athrun still has red gundams,Shinn is alive and Kira gets something different from a Freedom MK III &gt;_&gt;

[Jurojin]

The only way I'll not kill him (fuckuda) is if he kills Kira by Athrun's hand. Accident, intentional, what have you. As irrational as it seems to the common person, this would make ME happy.


And to save your fingers, no I don't give a rat's ass about how horrible it would make the show and how kira-lovers would hunt me down and stab me with their plushies. I'm just saying what would make me happy.

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
The only way Ill not kill him (fuckuda) is if he kills Kira by Athrun's hand. Accident, intentional, what have you. As irrational as it seems to the common person, this would make ME happy.


And to save your fingers, no I dont give a rats ass about how horrible it would make the show and how kira-lovers would hunt me down and stab me with their plushies. I'm just saying what would make me happy.


That was a funny post. Ya, well, I just want all of them to bite the big burrito. I want the Chairman to go ballistic with some new Neo type powers and just completely destroy everyone. He'll have the most fun with Lacus since he really hates her guts. He'll leave kira alive to watch her slow and agonizing death. Then he'll finish off Kira for last. Finally, since he lost all reason to fight, the chairman goes into deep depression and blows himself up.

[masamuneehs]

I was wondering if people still thought Shinn was a "stunted character growth" after watching PHase 49?

ITs true that Rey has been manipulating him all this time, but that was the Chairman's plan! And also, Shinn has shown signs of changing IMO because he no longer just wants to go about killing everyone for the sake of taking orders. He has adopted the viewpoint of Dullindal, that something permanent has to be done to change humanity, and that he now has to take on the role that Rey described for him, the "arm of the state" so to speak, which Dullindal will smack down the impudent resistance.

Shinn seems quite reluctant to do this. But bottom line is he doesn't want others to go through what he's been through. Early in the series he seemed more like someone fighting to forget about his problems, becoming the evil menace of war that destroyed his own life (an abused child becomes an abuser later in life). But after seeing Stellar die and hearing from Athrun on multiple occasions that he is wrong Shinn has done one of the only non-comformist things I've seen characters do in SEED/Destiny, he decides not to fight alongside the Clyne Faction because he wants to see a more long-term change in humanity, which Dullindal offers.

(Ok, maybe going with the miltiay you've been with for years and years and yielding to your roomie's view of life isn't non-conformist, but its refreshing to see people finally not all jumping on Lacus Clyne's side! )

[Strike Freedom]

I agree to a degree with what you're saying Masamuneehs. However (ya here we go), I still believe that Shinn had no real development. Shinn, in my opinion, does not go into this mad killing frenzy on just anyone. Instead, he just goes beserk and destroys whatever target he is supposed to or in order to defend himself. He's always been like this and sadly it will not change. Also, Shinn always wanted to do something with this war since it began. He wanted to put an end to it. Well, he just had no direction but now with the Chairman he chose a path in which he could end this war. I do admire Shinn for his well intentions, but the poor guy is just being led astray by his compassion. If anything, Shinn is a very compassionate and empathetic person. Shinn does not want his closest friends to go through any trouble or harm. It may be very well an effect that lingers with him from his family's death.