phase 44 discussion [Archive]

Curium

Sat, 08-20-2005, 10:31 AM

This was obviously an info episode so we can't get AS much without knowing what they say. Oh, and I've been seeding saiyaman's raw for the last hour. I was able to download it in about 45 minutes.

At 8:48 on the Saiyaman RAW, was that an error? I think they ACCTUALLY SHOWED RAU'S FACE!!!

I was amazed with Djibril's doomsday weapon. It was something that ACCTUALLY WORKEDi/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif.

Personally I fully expected Dullindal to detonate the shuttle that Meer was on after it launched so he could use it as propaganda.

Also, was that Jachin Due that Dullindal went too? It looks similar, and it looks like it has taken some damage.

One thing from the preview for 45. It is probably just bad timing on the order of scenes, but it shows Legend launching it's DRAGOON units and then immidietly after shows a bunch of GOUFs being destroyed. The first time I saw it I really thought Rey had done it. Then I realized it is too early for him to go crazy.

I wonder how Athrun will recover in time for action.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: Millenium-Boyz
is it just me or the release by saiyaman is fucked up, its lagging, LoLZ

As far as I'm concerned it's just you. I had no problems with it. Sorry, don't mean to be rude but it is being honost.

Freki

Sat, 08-20-2005, 10:54 AM

wow...just when Djibril gets a working doomsday weapon the preview for next weeks episode showed Destroys in space, oh well I guess Djibril really wants to lose. Oh and I thought the same thing as you Curium when I saw the DRAGOON followed by numerous GOUFs being shot at same time. And one last thing everyone's favorite character has finally returned to the SEED universe, hurray for Conille.

Millenium-Boyz

Sat, 08-20-2005, 11:03 AM

terra must be very happy coz yzak is back in action LoLZ, ive got my raw working finally, wow requiem is so so so good
how could the chairman stay calm !!! he must got somethin up his sleeve i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif LoLZ, BTWW it was quiet a long speech by kira, lacus, and archaangle crew, and inthe next episode preview, Meer is wearing bikini somewhere in tropical area, hahaha that was funny. GO LACUS !!! NICe introduction speech!!!!!! rey finally remember who is his parents, its Raw and the chairman !!! ! i wonder what did kira said to arthrun hehehe cant wait for the subbed by hiro tomoroow

Mashux7

Sat, 08-20-2005, 12:52 PM

Hey can anyone can tell me why i dont have the sound and just the image only on the saiyaman one?

Curium

Sat, 08-20-2005, 01:01 PM

Is your volume turned off? Or have you tried turning the volume up? Either your download didn't go properly or the problem is on your end. I can only speak for myself on this, but it hasn't given me any trouble.

Psyke

Sat, 08-20-2005, 01:05 PM

I had this problem a long long time ago. Some of the files I downloaded didn't have any audio. You would need to download the file again. Check that you are using the latest version of your BT client as well.

SFreedomZGMFx20a

Sat, 08-20-2005, 01:31 PM

Hi, i finally watched Phase 44, OMG, and here i thought the Opening Song couldnt be worse than Wing of Words, I was WRONG BIG TIME.

TRANSLATIONS PLEASE.

Motteh

Sat, 08-20-2005, 01:56 PM

in advance: although i don't know how many people have watched the raw by the time i write this, i think it's justified that i put down my 2 cents here and do not violate the spoiler rule, if i'm wrong i will face the consequences (although i would like to have the reason clearly explained as i do not see this so much as spoiling)

they finally realised Wings of Words sucked so they remixed it?
it's a bit better in my opinion though i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

and my thoughts on this episode, i think this sets the tone for the last episodes, things are going to get alot more grim and desperate i think
no way that PLANT will leave that unanswered for, although that "requiem" thing may be taken down (soon) i believe Djibril (the slimy toad he is) will have much more mass destruction aces up his sleeve, besides what you see in the phase-45 preview, so i guess it may be a big guns showdown after all, depending on what AA and crew are going to pull out of their hats

and for closure: that look and pose of Dullindal right before the episode ends is just soooo wrong, like he knew this was coming and is actually happy it did happen i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif

addict4speed

Sat, 08-20-2005, 02:28 PM

haha, while y'all are downloading the raw, i already got the sub verstion....except the sub's in chinese. but hey, as long as I can read it, i'm not complainin. all I gotta say for y'all non-chinese-reading people is: SUCKAS!! lol.

anywayz, a summary of the episode (Spoiler I guess for those who haven't seen RAW yet):

Lacus appears in orb and makes a speech, telling everyone she's not a supporter of Dullinal's plan and that people must rethink about what his true intentions truly are. This sends the entire world into a havoc. There're some people who say that the one in ORB is the real one. but most people on earth are still skeptical, because ORB is sided with the Blue Cosmos. There was a scene where the little girl(can't remember the name) talks about how they were suppressed by EA and liberated by ZAFT forces. Therefore, we should all be side w/ ZAFT and stop listening to the lacus from ORB. Meer is then send into hiding by the chairman after the real lacus appears. Shinn ask Rey what he thinks about the lacus in ORB, and Rey says they're all stupid for listening to the enemy. It is one of their tactics to try to confuse us. He says that he doesn't care which is the real lacus, all he knows is that Dullinal is right, and everyone else is wrong. Rey told shinn and Luna they got bigger things to worry about, such as Freedom and Justice. Luna was told that Meyrin might also be on AA. At the same time, The doomsday weapon build by dijibril was aimed and fired. The weapon missed the original intended target-Intending to hit Apricus, the capitol of PLANT, and took down 2 other plant colonies instead. The misfire is due to calculation error and the explosion at the last second. Immediately after the event, Minerva's ordered back into space. Lacus makes a long speech and finally reveals what the DESTINY plan is. Lacus says that the chairman's DESTINY plan is to reengineer everyone's genetic makeup so that each person's "destiny" is already chosen the minute they're born. The people who're unfit for the job'll have to be eliminated. This way, there will be no war, no insecurities about the future, and people will all live a happy life without conflicts. In the end, AA crew decides that they want to control their own destiny and will go into space to stop Dullinal.

That's pretty much the summary of the episode. Someone can add to my summary if i missed any important points.

Wizard054

Sat, 08-20-2005, 03:47 PM

Is this the new official OP?
I have the SaiyaMan RAW, btw

zn|¹

Sat, 08-20-2005, 03:50 PM

No- not official just something Saiyaman edited.

This story is starting to become all.... what's that one book, "Brave New World"-esque
Destiny Plan = Brave New World (sorta) lolololoL!!!

Strike Freedom

Sat, 08-20-2005, 04:05 PM

I just saw the RAW from S^M and I must say the Intro song is MUCH better than the WOW. The episode itself served as a good warm up into the next couple of episodes. I know now, looking back at the SEED episodes yesterday, that Shinn is going to change sides but I believe he'll do it in the last episode. He'll probably die trying to defend what is right, and find out what he needs to protect and all that good mumbo jumbo.

I really feel Kira and Athuran are going to bite the dust, it's just something that I feel with the build up (hope I'm wrong and it's only Shinn).

Yzak and Deakra back really made the episode enjoyable but I wanted more screen time from them, along with more action.

A quick RIP for all those on PLANT in the colonies that were destroyed. Just a question though, did all of PLANT's colonies get destroyed or just a few??? It looked like they were all wiped out!

I'm really expecting a grand finale, no hold back (in terms of no kill policy for Kira and Athuran). Well, hope someone can answer my question please, and am looking forward to other opinions and comments! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

zn|¹

Sat, 08-20-2005, 04:20 PM

He'll probably die trying to defend what is right, and find out what he needs to protect and all that good mumbo jumbo.

Eh, that's the thing about this series now. Nothing is "good" anymore in my view.

ZAFT- (Dullandal) - w00t let's create a world through genetic modification in which everyone's life is already decided at birth!!! That way no one will start war; or in that case, even insinuate on having war. Oh ya, did I forget to mention that my genetics predetermined at birth that I'm going to be ruler? HAH.

Orb//Lacus - Hell no, I want to keep my rights and freedom even though it will cause future bloodshed. It's not worth our future to give up our freedom for a world without war. - We'll somehow find another way ...etc.etc.

LOGOS//Earth Alliance - PWN EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DIEDIEDIE - Sorta... I guess... they don't really have anything their fighting for other than, uh, not getting arrested and killing coordinators...

Ok... well.... I guess for me .... LOGOS really is the bad guy - ZAFT and Lacus are sort of like... uhhh both "good" in a way... depending on how you look at it, I guess.

nhoc_kun

Sat, 08-20-2005, 04:22 PM

Deakra's ZGMF-1001 ZAKU Phantom (black) that so freaking cool..... luv it....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/nhoc_kun/screenshot/deaka1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/nhoc_kun/screenshot/deaka.jpg

Splash!

Sat, 08-20-2005, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by: zn|¹
No- not official just something Saiyaman edited.

This story is starting to become all.... what's that one book "Brave New World"-esque
Destiny Plan = Brave New World (sorta) lolololoL!!!

I fully agree with you, i mean wtf, will the writers resort to ripping stuff of novels to make this more interesting, come on. The concept of the Destiny Plan is very very similar to the notion in Huxley's "Brave New World", the whole predestination of life and fitting into social roles thing

Uchiha_AZN

Sat, 08-20-2005, 05:18 PM

what they hey i got the S^M raw but i cant hear squat?

Deblas

Sat, 08-20-2005, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by: Uchiha_AZN
what they hey i got the S^M raw but i cant hear squat?

Thats because its an MKV file if I'm not mistaken. To be able to watch it with your media player you need to download some codecs but it can be pretty messy sometimes. I suggest you take the easy way out and just download the VLC player.

Millenium-Boyz

Sat, 08-20-2005, 05:45 PM

LoLZ its quiet sad to see Yzak and dearka good skill is wasted in a ZAku

Chris_Xion

Sat, 08-20-2005, 08:54 PM

Bllody hell,i'm not hearing anything hear either

romancing_xaga

Sat, 08-20-2005, 08:56 PM

Does anyone thinks that ZAFT may have a "secret" Destroy gundam as well? Coz in the opening it showed Rey and Shinn with Destroy, and it seems that they're both fighting it, as we saw in ep 38. But most ppl said that they would fight each other, perhaps Shinn defected? I dont know. The idea just came up to my mind, ZAFT may have Destroy as well, since I think Dullindal has seen its blueprint, he may have built it, or shared it with Djibril. Just guessing, no need to aim some guns at me...^^

Chris_Xion

Sat, 08-20-2005, 09:38 PM

Black MSs are so sexy! And that Requiem is essentially a combo of GENESIS and Forbidden's Geschmeidig Panzer.Why did Yzak and Dearka get so little screen time?I wish they canned Rey's part.I'm sick of hearing him spreading lies and manipulating the people around him

Deblas

Sat, 08-20-2005, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by: Chris_Xion
Bllody hell,i'm not hearing anything hear either

Read my post above Millenium-Boyz.

Illrenmazou

Sat, 08-20-2005, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by: nhoc_kun
Deakra's ZGMF-1001 ZAKU Phantom (black) that so freaking cool..... luv it....
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/nhoc_kun/screenshot/deaka1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/nhoc_kun/screenshot/deaka.jpg

Its not completley black though

http://www.mpsnet.co.jp/hobbynet/Photos/bandai-h00073L.jpg

Curium

Sat, 08-20-2005, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by: Freki
wow...just when Djibril gets a working doomsday weapon the preview for next weeks episode showed Destroys in space, oh well I guess Djibril really wants to lose.

Destroys are acctually really good. They own EVERYTHING except Gundams. Keep in mind up until towards the end of this episode all of the Gundams are on Earth. Those Destroys could probably take out ZAFT's entire space fleet if the Minerva doesn't show up in time (which it will).

nhoc_kun

Sat, 08-20-2005, 11:01 PM

I don't like Destroys at all... cause they just stand their like a dumb statue..... yet the weapon's all good, but so... remember thos 5 Destroys before... Shin & Rey kickin their ass just kick trainning....

Sano

Sat, 08-20-2005, 11:36 PM

Just kind of curious, since Dearka was a former Zaft special task force member, I'd thought he'd get a better highly customed MS.

Freki

Sat, 08-20-2005, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: Freki
wow...just when Djibril gets a working doomsday weapon the preview for next weeks episode showed Destroys in space, oh well I guess Djibril really wants to lose.

Destroys are acctually really good. They own EVERYTHING except Gundams. Keep in mind up until towards the end of this episode all of the Gundams are on Earth. Those Destroys could probably take out ZAFT's entire space fleet if the Minerva doesn't show up in time (which it will).

haha exactly it isn't like it will be Destroys against grunts for an episode, the Destoys will be against the same Gundams at Heaven's Base except now Rey is gonna be able to use his DRAGOON system, and besides even if Minerva takes its time getting there, I hope they did not have Yzak and Deakra reintroduced just to get beat up by Destroys till Shinn saves them. I just hope the Destroys have some sort of weaponry that couldn't be used on Earth to make them more formiddable before they get destroyed.

Millenium-Boyz

Sat, 08-20-2005, 11:54 PM

Hiro Fansubs is out, but i think on IRC only,
/server irc.rizon.net
/j hiro

BOt list :
/ctcp Hiro|ExtraAngst xdcc send #4 [40KB/s minimum]
/ctcp Hiro|SuperAngst xdcc send #4 [40KB/s maximum]
/ctcp Hiro|Sexy xdcc send #6
/ctcp Hiro|Haro xdcc send #5
/ctcp Infiniti|Bot xdcc send #1
/ctcp Nanashi|Ahobaka xdcc send #53
/ctcp Nanashi|typeZERO xdcc send #13 [Nanashi donors only]

Death13a

Sat, 08-20-2005, 11:55 PM

hiro torrent: http://www.point-blank.cc:7000...8b6ea0da2e38b959ff55a5 (http://www.point-blank.cc:7000/torrents/%5BHiro%5D_Gundam_SEED_Destiny_Phase_44_%5BF21B42E 1%5D.avi.torrent?info_hash=d080a25611b0370b6a8b6ea 0da2e38b959ff55a5)

pash241

Sun, 08-21-2005, 12:04 AM

lol Hiro has only 4 seeders and around 400 leechers right now... is this keeps up episode 45 has time to come out before i finish dlin.. o_0.... well anyways... it has;nt been out long so i guess first hour of dl might take long... then im super seeding this!

Millenium-Boyz

Sun, 08-21-2005, 12:13 AM

wow!!! its hillarious, downloading from mirc using the /ctcp Hiro|ExtraAngst xdcc send #4
the speed never goes under 130 kbps, it finished in 25 minutes, im up to 80 % finished now, i cant wait for the episode go LACUS

Millenium-Boyz

Sun, 08-21-2005, 12:50 AM

WoW !!! Real Lacus CLyne really beat the crap out of meer, meer was about to cry on the tv LoL, and then once again rey had manipualted shin to hate kira and arthrun, the time when he said " letting djibril escape was our responsibility" and next episode they will fly to the spacE!!!!!!!!! and why the chairman stay so calm, and im thinking that the place called "messiah ", the place where the chairman goes to, that place may be the ZGMF-X901S Fortune gundam , because rumour said that Fortune gundam have this wing that can protect hte whole army, therefore im thinking that it must be a big gundam

EDIT:
sorry for double posting , when i post this message, the last 3 message in this topic doesnt appear on my pc

Vegita

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:02 AM

Guys here's an aweome direct DL. May not last though.

http://chaos-black.com/gsd-44/

My initial thoughts after watching: Dijibril has a WMD that probably still has some way of firing... at any moment... and the archangel crew is determined to stop dullindal??? oh dont worry about him he will be wiped out along with the rest of plant if you don't take care of that weapon...

Maybe it's taken me a while... but that pink haired bitch is really getting to me.. with this.. i'll say one semi non-sensical sentence and everyone will go "oh." with some profound acknowledgement...

i like how the plot with rey is developing tho... sort of subtle? when he was asked about his opinion about the lacuses.. and he said.. so what? if you're an imposter then ppl assume you're evil? some sort of reference that he is a clone? he actually loses his cool slightly... ever so slightly.

KapsLocked

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by: Vegita
Guys here's an aweome direct DL. May not last though.

http://chaos-black.com/gsd-44/

-_-;;; Why is it corrupted.... no sound...

Millenium-Boyz

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:36 AM

hmm since yesterday lots of people including me experience lots of trouble with the gundam seed 44, yesterday i experience lots of trouble with the raw. archangel crew somehow become a bit stupid, they wanna stop dullindal, they dont even know exactly what is dullindal motive, but they are not trying to stop Djibril, which his motive is already confirmed which is to destroy plant .

Digitalgirl

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:41 AM

There's no sound? *gives up on trying to download it* [wait, are you using media player?]

[My bittorrent download has been going for 2 and half hours and still nothing...*sulks*]

Millenium-Boyz

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:46 AM

go to www.softpedia.com and scroll downto the top 40 downloads find the ACE mega codecs pack and download it and install it
is it just me or , i find out that meyrin is getting prettier and cuter i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif she looks better witrh straight hair

Marcis

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
There's no sound? *gives up on trying to download it* [wait, are you using media player?]

[My bittorrent download has been going for 2 and half hours and still nothing...*sulks*]
Patience is a virtue...

Millenium-Boyz

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:54 AM

use IRC. i downloaded mine via irc and it takes about 25 minutes with speed never below 138 kbps

Vegita

Sun, 08-21-2005, 03:04 AM

Guys I posted a direct DL link up there you can DL at the limit of your connection. I hit 350kb/sec.

Sigmeier

Sun, 08-21-2005, 03:21 AM

Possible Scenarios for Remaining Episodes...

1. Meer becomes sacrificial lamb (like Flay in GSeed)...Gets killed for interfering with Dullindal's plan. Athrun >> Sad ;'0
2. Rey is a clone of Rau which is why Neo (Mwu) always had a weird feeing while fighting him. Fights his final Battle against Kira and/or Mwu...actually Mwu may go up against Dullindal or Kira will...anyway that's how I think it will pan out.
3. Rey is basically the Guinea Pig of Dullindal's DESTINY plan. His fate is already decided for him...still confused as to what exactly (it's probably why Dullindal doesn't look so worried)
4. Athrun & Cagali vs. Shinn & Lunamaria...both Shinn/Luna defect. Will Shinn ever forgive Cagali and ORB?
5. AA & Eternal vs MInerva?...AA might be sacrified to ruin Dijibril's plans and kill him in the act...Eternal or Minerva takes AA crew in. Talia and Minerva Crew Defect?
6. Yzak and Dearka definitely team up with Kira/Athrun's group again...Dearka & Mirialia hook up once more ^^
7. Earth is still in Chaos...Cagali attempts to reconcile differences...still seems hopeless to me though.

Roko

Sun, 08-21-2005, 04:33 AM

that was one crazy ep...looks like they're trying to answer a whole lotta questions in just one ep again. At least we know what the Destiny Plan is now. I agree with the first three and #6 of Sigmeier's scenarios; seems to be the most plausible. Can't wait to see the space battles, especially the dragoons in action. I thought the end was sorta..."bad," with the clasping of hands and all...just didn't seem right to me. heh, just occurred to me: although this is titled "Two Lacus'," it was barely about them... *Waits to see that bitch Meer die*

KapsLocked

Sun, 08-21-2005, 04:35 AM

I fixed it. Apparently someone is also advertising a download manager to help the download not be corrupted. >_<

I had all the codecs i needed anyways. ^^;

burnout

Sun, 08-21-2005, 09:16 AM

does anyone have a link the actually works???

hiro and the directlink isnt working here

Psyke

Sun, 08-21-2005, 09:19 AM

Thanks for the download Vegita. Mine was done in less than 20 mins having hit speeds of around 250kb/s.

For the show this is one of the more slow paced ones with no Gundam combat at all, except in flash backs. It's safe to assume that Shinn and Athrun will be going head on again soon, and it's surprising how Neo is now totally Mwu and pledges his alliance to the Archangel completely.

Terracosmo

Sun, 08-21-2005, 10:19 AM

This was one hell of an episode. Finally the show is starting to feel like a war is going on. Ruthless killing just like it should be.
And of course seeing Yzak back (along with the obligatory KUSO!) helps too. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

I really liked this. But man, everything Lacus says is so annoying. She tries to make it sound more smart than it is all the time.
Instead of just fucking saying "the purpose of this war is *insert reason*" she does that stupid Lacus shit which I don't even want to explain but all of you should know what I mean. KILL HER.

But yeah great episode. I'm all excited again, and while Destiny really is getting more ridiculous with the flashbacks (why was Nichol's death part of the flashbacks AGAIN?) and stock footage with each passing episode I can't help but worship it anyway. I do however love it when flashbacks are used in a good way. For example when Kira spoke about fate and etc they zoomed in on Mwu and he had some flashbacks of the druggie trio. That was fitting and enhanced the situation. I want more of that.

Someone asked a few posts back if it was a glitch that we saw Rau's face in a flashback. It wasn't, actually that was taken from the Seed Special Editions.

It was interesting to see Miss Conille again though she sucks. Also, it seems like they like wasting good character designs on no-name characters. Anyone noticed Meer's female bodyguard thingy? She looked awesome. That's a great design wasted on nobody.

I want more. They still have damn many questions to answer (which probably won't be answered at all, but still).

Strike Freedom

Sun, 08-21-2005, 10:21 AM

Is it just me or does anyone else notice that Rey knows too much about Requiem without even being informed about it. If you ask me, I believe the Chairman and Rey knew about that weapon and its intended use by Djibril. Shinn has to be one of the dumbest MS pilots in history for not noticing that, further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE! I mean I hope he does grow up FAST with the few episodes left, but if not then he deserves to DIE! Athuran was trying to help Shinn figure out the root of his anger, it is that he fails to protect the ones he loves. The guy has great intentions but he's going about it the wrong way. Anyhow, getting back to Rey, the guy is good, damn good to be fooling everyone the way he is. And I won't buy that someone sent the information to him, he spoke about Requiem as soon as it had been fired!

Phoenix20578

Sun, 08-21-2005, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
Is it just me or does anyone else notice that Rey knows too much about Requiem without even being informed about it. If you ask me, I believe the Chairman and Rey knew about that weapon and its intended use by Djibril. Shinn has to be one of the dumbest MS pilots in history for not noticing that, further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE! I mean I hope he does grow up FAST with the few episodes left, but if not then he deserves to DIE! Athuran was trying to help Shinn figure out the root of his anger, it is that he fails to protect the ones he loves. The guy has great intentions but he's going about it the wrong way. Anyhow, getting back to Rey, the guy is good, damn good to be fooling everyone the way he is. And I won't buy that someone sent the information to him, he spoke about Requiem as soon as it had been fired!

That or its just a convient plot device

Terracosmo

Sun, 08-21-2005, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE!

Well, if Athrun didn't show up he'd most likely have time to kill Djibril off thus preventing the deaths of a gazillion people. How the hell is that immature?

FelixZeroAlastor

Sun, 08-21-2005, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE!

Well, if Athrun didn't show up he'd most likely have time to kill Djibril off thus preventing the deaths of a gazillion people. How the hell is that immature?

Well only blaming Athrun and Shinn is immature.

Well the fact that Djibril isn't dead is accually Luna's fault. That had to be the most horrible display of marksmanship I have ever had to bear witness to. But really it's more than just their fault. You could put the blame on so many people for this, and the fact that the Reqium had been developed a while back is proof of that. Though we could play the blame game it is hopeless as at this moment as what has happened has already taken place and there is no changing that unless some horrible plot device came in somewhere. If it's anybody's fault then it is Dullindal's. He knew that this was going to happen. Before he acted pissed he had to take the time to look around at everyone else's expressions then he let acting do the rest. Then there is Rey who had no surprise in his face what so ever. In fact the fist thing that he does is show Luna and Shinn how it works, and on top of that nobody had been informed on the details of what had happened or how those colonies had been shot. Rey knew just by looking what the weapon was and how it had happened. Rey is just using this to his advantage so that Shinn will stay on Zaft's side and not defect to the AA by playing the blame game. There was an entire fucking army after Djibril and it is magically all Shinn and Luna's fault. Hell even Cagalli had her nation trying to find him. Then there are the Zaft space forces to get past.

But if any of you accually noticed another convient PLOT DEVICE took place when Djibril escaped. What would usually be a couple of days journey only took him about three hours. He went from the Earth (Which was probably not facing the moon.) To the dark side of the moon in only THREE HOURS or so. That is completely impossible. So all in all the blame rests with none other than Fukada!

Terracosmo

Sun, 08-21-2005, 11:08 AM

If Freedom/Justice and the rest didn't show up, Talia wouldn't have to give the task of shooting Djibril down to Luna solely. Luna is definitely the worst pilot of the Shinn/Rey/Luna trio, and having all three of them following the shuttle would absolutely end with it getting shot down. Anything else is unthinkable.

But yeah, as you say, it's that fucking Fukada's fault.

Miro69

Sun, 08-21-2005, 11:10 AM

Is it just me or does anyone else notice that Rey knows too much about Requiem without even being informed about it. If you ask me, I believe the Chairman and Rey knew about that weapon and its intended use by Djibril.

--indeed.

this was probably one of the lamest episodes of the past few. like we weren't REALLY expecting a Genesis weapon to come, you'd figure it'd be something BESIDES A GODDAMN BEAM weapon. not only that, but due to its high inconsistancy of just blasting a portion of the beam connectors, the weapon went haywire. sure, you can fire it anyway you want, but tip something over and the weapon will miss its intended target. wonder where the idea for Requiem being a super weapon came in. probably the same people who thought up that a transforming gundam *cough impulse cough* was superior to one that was already built.

not only that, but you'd figure that ZAFT would have a monopoly on space and would've discovered if the EA would be making a weapon. doesnt take more than a satellite to discover if something's being built within the moon region. now if EA planted something like the Requiem along the asteroid belt and used that, it would've been much more interesting. in fewer words, Requiem fails at originality, and their copy of it is STILL LAME.

lacus' long boring speech didnt help much to keep interest either. the only thing interesting to come out of her mouth was the Destiny plan. some credit goes to fukuda for ripping off the utopian ideals, but it's something new in the gundam universe, as far as i've seen.

it was interesting however, to see dullindal under pressure. probably the only thing to see come out of this episode.

athrun still looks constipated. meyrin is still besides him. i have no clue where bartfeldt is. he's been absent for the past few episodes...

this episode was the calm before the storm i guess. will wait to see what happens next...

Terracosmo

Sun, 08-21-2005, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by: Miro69
in fewer words, Requiem fails at originality, and their copy of it is STILL LAME.

At least Requiem BENDS. That's something NEW.
Unlike SF & IJ which are their former versions with a few added parts.

Sano

Sun, 08-21-2005, 11:49 AM

As someone said earlier, Dullindal's "Destiny Plan" is a lot like "Brave New World" or "Athem." It also kind of also has a little resemblence (barely) to the Matrix. Lacus' speech seemed to doom the Clyne Faction's fate in the series because now Dullindal can use the faction as a scapegoat and label them potentially as a part of "Logos."

Phoenix20578

Sun, 08-21-2005, 11:54 AM

All this episode did was reenforce my belief that Dullindal is a crazy fucker and should be bludgeoned to death with large objects. And like Terra said before, its nice to see that this war accually looks like a war now.

Freki

Sun, 08-21-2005, 01:15 PM

The Destiny plan is simlar to a lot of stuff, pretty much anything that involves people losing freedoms to reach a peaceful or utopian world. As for Dullindal's evil nature after hearing his master plan I don't think he is as evil as I thought he would be. I mean he wants to end war and between his way and AA way I think his has the best chance of success. Also as for Requiem and Djibril there is nothing to say that if Djibril had been killed or captured before reaching the moon that this weapon would have never been used, granted it seemed like leaders had been putting off using it but that doesn't mean that no one in the near future could have fired the weapon as well. I like how after last episode set up the two Lacus thing to be this big deal, the confusion over which lacus was real was pretty minimal, I mean after a few minutes of arguing, everyone they showed who didn't know which was real came to the conclusion that they didn't really care which was real.

Roko

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:02 PM

Is it just me or did we see a Chaos in the preview? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif And yes, we finally have another big weapon! And the thing bends!!! god i want one of those.

AtHRunOwNZaLL

Sun, 08-21-2005, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
Well the fact that Djibril isn't dead is accually Luna's fault. That had to be the most horrible display of marksmanship I have ever had to bear witness to.

not as bad as on episode 40 of GS where athrun and kira were trying to get on the ship that cagalli was on and the 3 druggies were at least firing for 1 and a half minute straight aiming in the same spot every time, that was horrible to watch

anyway, this episode was pretty good, it built up the climax and it seems a big battle between 3 sides are going to occur and athrun is determined now so i'm looking forward to some woop ass from athrun

Splash!

Sun, 08-21-2005, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by: Freki
The Destiny plan is simlar to a lot of stuff, pretty much anything that involves people losing freedoms to reach a peaceful or utopian world. As for Dullindal's evil nature after hearing his master plan I don't think he is as evil as I thought he would be. I mean he wants to end war and between his way and AA way I think his has the best chance of success. Also as for Requiem and Djibril there is nothing to say that if Djibril had been killed or captured before reaching the moon that this weapon would have never been used, granted it seemed like leaders had been putting off using it but that doesn't mean that no one in the near future could have fired the weapon as well. I like how after last episode set up the two Lacus thing to be this big deal, the confusion over which lacus was real was pretty minimal, I mean after a few minutes of arguing, everyone they showed who didn't know which was real came to the conclusion that they didn't really care which was real.

True, but the idea of using genetic engineering to make roles for people comes straight out of brave new world.
Also i agree with on the fact that it was too good to see nobody effected by lacus' appearance too much. I mean if you think about it, she hasnt shown her face to the people for so long or taken any resolve while all this conflict was going on, who is she to come and tell the people what to do now. It doesnt really matter what Lacus thinks to them
@phoenix- Dullindaal's plan probably however makes more sense of solving the problem than The archangel's. I mean all the people on the archangel or like " we have to do something to stop all this fighting but we don't know quite what to do, so lets just screw up things for everyone else while why try to find what needs to be done"

Strike Freedom

Sun, 08-21-2005, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE!

Well, if Athrun didn't show up he'd most likely have time to kill Djibril off thus preventing the deaths of a gazillion people. How the hell is that immature?

Well only blaming Athrun and Shinn is immature!

Um...First at Terra, Athuran isn't to blame, they're (him and Kira) defending ORB. I mean, would you let a bunch of ppl just come and destroy your home just cause they're looking for one guy, highly doubt it. I'm pointing out that he is immature in blaming others, not trying to find Djibril. I don't mind a rebuttal but argue the point made instead of deviating from it. I'm not a shinn hater or trying to make him seem less of a pilot or what not, but truth be is that he still must grow up. The guy is blinded by rage that stems from his failure to protect his loved ones, and he directs that anger at people. Take responsibility for your actions (Stella was his fault in my opinion) and try to fight in order to protect your ideals and what you hold dear instead of fighting out of anger and hate!

Secondly, I'm not playing the blame game (directed at FelixZeroAlastor) so your comment there is unmerited. I'm only pointing out the obvious, Shinn fails to take the blame on himself and pushes it on other people. He blames Freedom for Stella's death, he blames Athuran for Djibril, he blames ORB and Cagalli's father for his family. Instead of having some NUTS and acknowledging that he cannot protect his loved ones as he wishes and trying to change that for the better, he says "it's your fault." I"m so sick and tired of that attitude, I feel like I'm watching a five year old when he goes through that bratty crap. Someone please give the guy a tissue, quit playing the damn violin for the smuck. He needs to grow up, realize that some things are out of his hands and come to terms with the lack of power he has in protecting what he holds dear. Blaming someone else for mistakes is not the answer. Athuran is NOT at fault for Djibril, he did what was right to prevent the deaths of innocent people in ORB.

I agree that it is Luna who should take partial blame since she failed to shoot down the shuttle. However, and I stress this the most, if Djibril was so important to kill then the Minerva (ZAFT) should have gone after that shuttle right away instead of resupplying and resting. And yes, there are going to be people who put up a valid argument for the Minverva. But excuses won't take you anywhere, bottom line is it's their fault, even Rey said it in this episode.

Mut

Sun, 08-21-2005, 03:38 PM

Hahah, Meer is so gonna die.

Sano

Sun, 08-21-2005, 03:44 PM

I'm guessing the final showdown between th last 2 forces in the final battle will be the Minerva (and Zaft) VS. Archangel? At this point of the series, I'm also guessing the original "good guy" main characters from the start of the series will turn into the enemies/bad guys at the end of the series.

PSJ

Sun, 08-21-2005, 03:54 PM

Am i the only one who enjoy the two badguys looking bad? Dullindal sitting on his throne at the end was awesome. And Djibril fails a bit when his god damn weapon can't even hit target but it was those useless motherfuckers that was supposed to be calculating the coordinates. He was still badass when he said that he wasn't a coward or a dreamer. Man you can't trust subordinates, just look at Luna she can't even hit a shuttle that isn't trying to evade when she can hit mobile suits right in the cockpit when they do all they can to kill her and evade.

alukard

Sun, 08-21-2005, 04:29 PM

All plant's colonies named after a month of the year like Januarius, Decemberus, or Apriius. They could have named it after one of their original designer or something like the first coordinator. They've downgraded yzak and Dearka to regulars and give them generic white and grey suits with spots of other colors here and there instead of custom paint jobs like Freedom or Destiny. Very generic looking Goufs and even worst then the one Athrun and Heine piloted earlier.

aznroyale

Sun, 08-21-2005, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
If Freedom/Justice and the rest didn't show up, Talia wouldn't have to give the task of shooting Djibril down to Luna solely. Luna is definitely the worst pilot of the Shinn/Rey/Luna trio, and having all three of them following the shuttle would absolutely end with it getting shot down. Anything else is unthinkable.

But yeah, as you say, it's that fucking Fukada's fault.

i thought she couldnt shoot it down cause the shuttle was heading into space and as she was going up the pressure is messing her up

Tomato

Sun, 08-21-2005, 05:24 PM

But excuses won't take you anywhere, bottom line is it's their fault, even Rey said it in this episode.

I thought Rey said that because of their inability to take care of "Kira" and "Athrun" who in return stopped them from stopping Djibril.

So yes, kira and athrun stopping ZAFT in a way do share the responsibility

Splash!

Sun, 08-21-2005, 05:25 PM

These are the PLANT sectors and what they are responsible for:

Januarius
Basic and applied microengineering
Februarius
Basic and clinical medicine, biochemistry, molecular biology, applied somatology
Martius
Aerospace engineering, shipbuilding
Aprilius
Astronomy, astrophysics, cosmology, space planetary science, space life sciences
Maius
Applied mechanical engineering, basic and applied metallurgy, applied materials engineering, robotics engineering
Junius
Basic and applied agricultural science, social engineering
Quintilis
Basic and applied chemistry
Sextilis
Basic physics, theoretical physics, particle physics, higher-dimensional physics, mathematics
September
Electronics, information engineering, artificial intelligence engineering, information science
October
Social sciences
November
Multipurpose practical industrial engineering
December
Elementary education

Courtesy: Gundam Official

lol, so PLANT is now without agriculture, elementary education and Astronomical research facilities. They are in quite the pickle

Tomato

Sun, 08-21-2005, 05:35 PM

Guess Earth got the man power for that

Curium

Sun, 08-21-2005, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by: Freki
haha exactly it isn't like it will be Destroys against grunts for an episode, the Destoys will be against the same Gundams at Heaven's Base except now Rey is gonna be able to use his DRAGOON system,

I don't know how much good the DRAGOONS will be against them, so far the Destroy's have only been shown to be vulnerable to melee weapons.

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
Is it just me or does anyone else notice that Rey knows too much about Requiem without even being informed about it. If you ask me, I believe the Chairman and Rey knew about that weapon and its intended use by Djibril.

That is an interesting thought. Lets say you are right, could it be that Dullindal wanted Aprilus taken out with the entire PLANT Supreme Council? That would increase his power and pretty much wipe out anyone that could question his authority. Maybe the only reason he was shocked and upset was because Requium missed and took out a bunch of Civilian colonies.

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
Well the fact that Djibril isn't dead is accually Luna's fault. That had to be the most horrible display of marksmanship I have ever had to bear witness to.

Personally I've been calling that type of aiming "Star Wars aiming". I mean in the original trilogy nobody could hit anything practically.

Originally posted by: Miro69
i have no clue where bartfeldt is. he's been absent for the past few episodes...

He is probably still on the Eternal.

Originally posted by: PSJ
Am i the only one who enjoy the two badguys looking bad? Dullindal sitting on his throne at the end was awesome. And Djibril fails a bit when his god damn weapon can't even hit target but it was those useless motherfuckers that was supposed to be calculating the coordinates. He was still badass when he said that he wasn't a coward or a dreamer. Man you can't trust subordinates, just look at Luna she can't even hit a shuttle that isn't trying to evade when she can hit mobile suits right in the cockpit when they do all they can to kill her and evade.

I agree with the Dullindal scene.

As for the missing it's target, that is understandable to me. The distance was very large. If you knock it off by just a 1 degree angle it will be just a small miss close, but at long range even 1 degree is huge.

Darknodin

Sun, 08-21-2005, 06:10 PM

Okay... several things

one... people bashing luna because she can't aim? I would want to see you try to aim a shuttle speeding away from you at several Gs through a plume of smoke! this wasn't a horrible display of marksmanship... it was the exact opposite, the fact that she was able to fire this close to this rather small shuttle proves that she is quite the marksman...

second... it seems that dullindal was faking to be upset, if you look at the sequence of events you'll see him simply looking at other people's reactions then asking questions in an "angry" tone...

third... i don't think that ALL januarius or december colonies have been destroyed...

Death13a

Sun, 08-21-2005, 06:28 PM

If you see the 1/2 part of Plant was hit meaning the other half should be still be operational

drunkenmaster

Sun, 08-21-2005, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by: Darknodin
Okay... several things

one... people bashing luna because she can't aim? I would want to see you try to aim a shuttle speeding away from you at several Gs through a plume of smoke! this wasn't a horrible display of marksmanship... it was the exact opposite, the fact that she was able to fire this close to this rather small shuttle proves that she is quite the marksman...

second... it seems that dullindal was faking to be upset, if you look at the sequence of events you'll see him simply looking at other people's reactions then asking questions in an "angry" tone...

third... i don't think that ALL januarius or december colonies have been destroyed...

lol this just bothers me, you dont speed away at G... Gs are g force meaning how much gravity the person is taking. its not a measure of speed, but a measure of force. sorry im being anal, that just bothered me alot.

Terracosmo

Sun, 08-21-2005, 06:54 PM

Strike Freedom:
Um...First at Terra, Athuran isn't to blame, they're (him and Kira) defending ORB. I mean, would you let a bunch of ppl just come and destroy your home just cause they're looking for one guy, highly doubt it.

So? I was just stating why Shinn was blaming Athrun. I never said they (Kira & Athrun) didn't have a valid reason to be there.

Aznroyale:
i thought she couldnt shoot it down cause the shuttle was heading into space and as she was going up the pressure is messing her up

Probably, but she's still the worst pilot of the three.

Darknodin:
one... people bashing luna because she can't aim? I would want to see you try to aim a shuttle speeding away from you at several Gs through a plume of smoke! this wasn't a horrible display of marksmanship... it was the exact opposite, the fact that she was able to fire this close to this rather small shuttle proves that she is quite the marksman...

You are either a huge Luna fanboy or a comedian. You mean to say that MISSING the shuttle proves that you are "quite the marksman"? Being "quite the marksman" would mean that you can take the shuttle down wherever it is. It's not like they ignore specific ranges during their training.

In the end, though, this is pointless because the real reason Djibril got away was plot device.

Curium

Sun, 08-21-2005, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Darknodin:
one... people bashing luna because she can't aim? I would want to see you try to aim a shuttle speeding away from you at several Gs through a plume of smoke! this wasn't a horrible display of marksmanship... it was the exact opposite, the fact that she was able to fire this close to this rather small shuttle proves that she is quite the marksman...

You are either a huge Luna fanboy or a comedian. You mean to say that MISSING the shuttle proves that you are "quite the marksman"? Being "quite the marksman" would mean that you can take the shuttle down wherever it is. It's not like they ignore specific ranges during their training.

In the end, though, this is pointless because the real reason Djibril got away was plot device.

Impulse's new bumper sticker

"Bumper Sticker - To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target."

Strike Freedom

Sun, 08-21-2005, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
Is it just me or does anyone else notice that Rey knows too much about Requiem without even being informed about it. If you ask me, I believe the Chairman and Rey knew about that weapon and its intended use by Djibril.

That is an interesting thought. Lets say you are right, could it be that Dullindal wanted Aprilus taken out with the entire PLANT Supreme Council? That would increase his power and pretty much wipe out anyone that could question his authority. Maybe the only reason he was shocked and upset was because Requium missed and took out a bunch of Civilian colonies.

Yes, I agree. In fact, I am saying that he did know, I was just saying it in a sarcastic manner. It was obvious when you saw the Chairman after the attack, he looks around and then suddenly acts enraged...umm...can someone say BS! Him and Rey both know about Requiem and are using it to their advantage. This was a part of the Chairman's plan.

Mae

Sun, 08-21-2005, 08:28 PM

Definately a good helping of Brave New World thrown in there. And has anyone seen Gattaca? (same basic concept, genetics determines your future, underrated movie IMO). And while we're at it lets build a LAZER on the MOOOON (an accesory no good supervillain is ever without). Seriously, though, it seems rediculously vulnerable. I mean, ZAFT already destroyed one of the aiming mechanisms. And that leaves it pointing... at Earth?

I was disappointed by how meekly Meer accepted her fate... I was hoping for a gun :( And I agree Djibril was nicely evil in this ep. No appologies or excuses from him. And the chairman on his throne was nice indeed. Overall a decent set-up episode, and it looks like a fight for next week :)

Yukimura

Mon, 08-22-2005, 12:44 AM

What is the AA crew thinking... Djibril just blew up a crazy amount of civies just because he felt like it, and what are they talking about three minutes later? Lets stop the Chairman. Now we the viewers know there's something screwy about Dullindal, but how much unnessecary murder has he actually ordered?

Takedown AA: He ordered a rogue paramilitary force taken down, after it interfered with and attacked his military several times causing much death and destruction

Get Djibril, screw ORB: He ordered this guy captured no matter the cost, and when the government of ORB lied about it he sent in the big guns

Take down Eternal: Hey it's a ship that was stolen after our last war, and oh it's pretty f'ing sick too maybe we shouldn't just let whoever run around with our property.

Kill Athrun: He ordered two deserters who stole an MS and were off for points unknown with plenty of secret info to be brought back or killed, one of whom was under suspicio for treason already

Kill Lacus: This is likely his handiwork but we can't really be sure. The only proof it was him was the advanced ZAFT MS's used in the attack, oh wait where's Gaia right now? I guess Eternal must be under Dullindal's control then?

Drop Junis-7: A real stretch but i'll throw it out there, once again, no proof, and unlike Kill Lacus, there's absolutely nothing we've seen that ties him to this one, but...

The bottom line for us viewers is this...Dullindal is one shady dude, and he is all about lies, deception and getting his way, as we've seen. However even we haven't seen him do anything violent that couldn't be explained. Looking at Destroy plans, lying about Lacus, etc were shady and underhanded but for all we know of his intentions he might be planning to throw a birthday party for himself after the war's over and he wants everyone to think Lacus Clyne came to his party cuz he's sooooo cool. This scenario fits with whats been happening, he wants to end the war, for a birthday celebration. That could be the Destiny Plan, his destiny is to have the most amazing B-day in all history.

My point is this, Lacus and the AA crew are leaping to tons of conclusions about Dullindal.

What do they actually know?

They know something called the Destiny Plan was wrtten in a journal in Dr. Hibiki's lab,
They know there's a fake Lacus running around with Dullindal's blessing,
They know ZAFT doesn't like them dicking around in their affairs

(Stupid ZAFT, thinking it's okay to just fight a war that it didn't start, on it's own terms w/o the AA's permission).

Now lets talk about one Lord Djibril

Accomplishments:

Leader of Blue Cosmos, i.e. self-proclaimed and proud supporter of genocide or whatever the term for wiping out animals if you assume coordinators aren't human. (Even killing all of one type of animal is pretty frowened upon as far as i know)

Ordered a huge nuclear attack on all the cities and thus civillians of PLANT
Ordered the whiole world to submit to his will directly or else die
Built the first Destroy and gave it free reign to kill anything in it's path that resisted his will
Ordered Heaven's Base to attack the Anti-Logos fleet without any diplomacy
Left Heaven's Base when the going got tough, leaving all his comrades behind to die
Used ORB as a shield and caused many soldiers unnessecary deaths in defense of their homeland
Fired a WMD at the capital of a soverign nation which was filled with thousands of civillians, missed and then complained that they'd killed the wrong civillians

And what happens on the AA bridge, Lacus divine's the Destiny plan out of her pink ass and everyone decides to go fight against Dullindal's plan that Lacus just made up. I really think that a mass murdering, egomaniacal, narssicist with a super weapon and a desire for genocide should be considered more dangerous than a shady leader whose only obvious crimes are essentially just Bill Clinton 'crimes' without the sex (except with Talia).

The AA crew seems to have a pretty huge tunnel vision lens on what's been going on in the world, no matter what has happened they have opposed ZAFT, usually under the auspices of defending ORB of course, but still, what did the chairman actually do to make them see him as this huge evil spector in their eyes.

As viewers we know something fishy is going on with Dullindal as he;s a big liar/manipulator and we know Djibril is a psycho of Hannibal Lecter level insanity, and near limitless resources.

The AA crew know's Dullindal is a liar/manipulator and might have ordered Lacus killed and they know Djibril is a psycho of Hannibal Lecter level insanity, and near limitless resources.

Now, who do you think they should be more worried about? Unless they are a bunch of self-righteous tools mad about what happens to their precious ORB and blaming others whenever the country get's itself into trouble I'd say Djibril.

Aramis

Mon, 08-22-2005, 12:57 AM

I hardly understood that Destiny plan stuff...but basically (at least the version that Lacus divined out of her pink ass) involves the eradication of all non-coordinators, just like in the case of PLANT's last ruler? Hmm..where have we seen this before?

pegasussaint

Mon, 08-22-2005, 01:10 AM

Why would AA be worried about Djibril? With what he has done just now the crew of AA knows that he is dead and even if Djibril didnt fire Requiem they all know that Zaft will get him anyways. The crew of AA are thinking about this in a realistic manner. They are a small faction, powerful but still small. Why take the risk to kill someone that you know will be taken down by a bigger opponent . Of course AA just cant join in the battle with Zaft, since they would be shot down the minute they show up. They need to survive to prevent Dullindal's plan which they have a better shot at since no one else suspects the plan.

To summarize, the crew of AA knows where Djibril stands and know that Zaft will do its best to take Djibril and the EAF down. However they are not sure where Dullindal stands and many times the unknown is what people fear the most.

Edit--The Destiny plan is to have everything in your life predetermined by you genes. A person will be genetically engineered to be a docter and thats that. If you do not follow this plan you are terminated (pretty much part of Dullindal's M.O) The reason is that if everything is predetermined they there is nothing to argue over. People in power or control are breed into those positions. It would be difficult to fight this system once it is establish because you are fighting in essence, Destiny. At least that what Lacus and the crew of AA believe

Aramis

Mon, 08-22-2005, 03:20 AM

Okay, but a person who's already born can't be tinkered with in such a manner, so the removal of all currently existing people will be necessary. Well, there would of course be some coordinators that'd subject to the plan and sorta become the new Ark.
*Clears his eyes from the bullshit*
SO Dullindal is in the end, an evil villainous mastermind who's going to bring about the death of everyone and must be stopped.

Kovash

Mon, 08-22-2005, 04:25 AM

Just a small note - Ever notice how the AA has never interfered in ANY battles (only counting the latest bash of interference in Destiny), unless it involved ORB?

The AA isn't about to jump into any large scale battle without a damn good reason. If Dillundal wants to take out Djibril, then fine but don't involve innocents or ORB, who are neutral (and thus innocents in the war).

I intended to write more, but I've been distrated and have to go - so I'll finish up later.

Motteh

Mon, 08-22-2005, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by: Kovash
Just a small note - Ever notice how the AA has never interfered in ANY battles (only counting the latest bash of interference in Destiny), unless it involved ORB?

The AA isn't about to jump into any large scale battle without a damn good reason. If Dillundal wants to take out Djibril, then fine but don't involve innocents or ORB, who are neutral (and thus innocents in the war).

I intended to write more, but I've been distrated and have to go - so I'll finish up later.well Orb wasn't neutral anymore when they signed that treaty with the EAF now were they? (and since that treaty isn't officially annulled they still aren't neutral)
so that argument pretty much isn't valid

Vegita

Mon, 08-22-2005, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by: pegasussaint
Why would AA be worried about Djibril? With what he has done just now the crew of AA knows that he is dead and even if Djibril didnt fire Requiem they all know that Zaft will get him anyways. The crew of AA are thinking about this in a realistic manner. They are a small faction, powerful but still small. Why take the risk to kill someone that you know will be taken down by a bigger opponent . Of course AA just cant join in the battle with Zaft, since they would be shot down the minute they show up. They need to survive to prevent Dullindal's plan which they have a better shot at since no one else suspects the plan.

To summarize, the crew of AA knows where Djibril stands and know that Zaft will do its best to take Djibril and the EAF down. However they are not sure where Dullindal stands and many times the unknown is what people fear the most.

Haha and if ZAFT fails to take out Dijibril before he fires the Requiem again or pulls another WMD from up his sleeve? Oops, bye bye coordinators. Guess we don't have to worry about the Destiny plan anymore since there are no coordinators and PLANT has been decimated.

Splash!

Mon, 08-22-2005, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by: Mae
Definately a good helping of Brave New World thrown in there. And has anyone seen Gattaca? (same basic concept, genetics determines your future, underrated movie IMO). And while we're at it lets build a LAZER on the MOOOON (an accesory no good supervillain is ever without). Seriously, though, it seems rediculously vulnerable. I mean, ZAFT already destroyed one of the aiming mechanisms. And that leaves it pointing... at Earth?

I was disappointed by how meekly Meer accepted her fate... I was hoping for a gun i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif And I agree Djibril was nicely evil in this ep. No appologies or excuses from him. And the chairman on his throne was nice indeed. Overall a decent set-up episode, and it looks like a fight for next week i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

About the part of Requiem being left with only the traget of earth....

Actually not quite. During the episode they showed that Requiem has reflectors in several random places and all destroying one reflector will mean is that they have to use an alternate path using different reflectors. Its not that all the reflectors were laid out in a single line and can only be used for one pattern of attack. Its like a whole web of them. So unless at least half of those things are destoyed at the right places, it can still target PLANT, but targeting specific colonies might pose a problem with one reflector down.
Better still, take down Requiem itself

Black_Wing

Mon, 08-22-2005, 10:55 AM

I blame zaft if you think about it they failed to capture dijibril when they caught all the other members of logos . SO i blame zaft and of course luna maria for missing

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE!

Well, if Athrun didn't show up he'd most likely have time to kill Djibril off thus preventing the deaths of a gazillion people. How the hell is that immature?

Well only blaming Athrun and Shinn is immature!

Um...First at Terra, Athuran isn't to blame, they're (him and Kira) defending ORB. I mean, would you let a bunch of ppl just come and destroy your home just cause they're looking for one guy, highly doubt it. I'm pointing out that he is immature in blaming others, not trying to find Djibril. I don't mind a rebuttal but argue the point made instead of deviating from it. I'm not a shinn hater or trying to make him seem less of a pilot or what not, but truth be is that he still must grow up. The guy is blinded by rage that stems from his failure to protect his loved ones, and he directs that anger at people. Take responsibility for your actions (Stella was his fault in my opinion) and try to fight in order to protect your ideals and what you hold dear instead of fighting out of anger and hate!

Secondly, I'm not playing the blame game (directed at FelixZeroAlastor) so your comment there is unmerited. I'm only pointing out the obvious, Shinn fails to take the blame on himself and pushes it on other people. He blames Freedom for Stella's death, he blames Athuran for Djibril, he blames ORB and Cagalli's father for his family. Instead of having some NUTS and acknowledging that he cannot protect his loved ones as he wishes and trying to change that for the better, he says "it's your fault." I"m so sick and tired of that attitude, I feel like I'm watching a five year old when he goes through that bratty crap. Someone please give the guy a tissue, quit playing the damn violin for the smuck. He needs to grow up, realize that some things are out of his hands and come to terms with the lack of power he has in protecting what he holds dear. Blaming someone else for mistakes is not the answer. Athuran is NOT at fault for Djibril, he did what was right to prevent the deaths of innocent people in ORB.

I agree that it is Luna who should take partial blame since she failed to shoot down the shuttle. However, and I stress this the most, if Djibril was so important to kill then the Minerva (ZAFT) should have gone after that shuttle right away instead of resupplying and resting. And yes, there are going to be people who put up a valid argument for the Minverva. But excuses won't take you anywhere, bottom line is it's their fault, even Rey said it in this episode.

Black_Wing

Mon, 08-22-2005, 11:05 AM

What really creeps me out the most the chairmans gay smile he reminds of micheal jackson alot. Alot of things odnt make sense. I think te chairman is evil and rey si indeed the the son of klueze raised by the chairman or well a clone.

Shinn takes aprisoner fromt he eaf then attcks members in his own crew run away to the enemy line then returned the enemy back only to go kill more people. Not to mention he launched without the captains command and is but in the brigg for what one day and gets a medal ? Mean while athrun disagrees with the chairmans plans slightly then gets hunted done by all of zaft for doing what ? Overall it seems dum that well destiny is well looking exactly like seed was around the same time. Who writes this perpetual stuff. The AA is cool and the captian does have the milf factor and I look forward for them to pwing some more. It was good yazk again and deakra. It seems liek he was demoted though beacuse i never see him in a red coad only in the green uniform which is lower than the red. Just like good old times . Hopes they survive 2 more epsiodes eh

DDBen

Mon, 08-22-2005, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by: PSJ
Am i the only one who enjoy the two badguys looking bad? Dullindal sitting on his throne at the end was awesome. And Djibril fails a bit when his god damn weapon can't even hit target but it was those useless motherfuckers that was supposed to be calculating the coordinates. He was still badass when he said that he wasn't a coward or a dreamer. Man you can't trust subordinates, just look at Luna she can't even hit a shuttle that isn't trying to evade when she can hit mobile suits right in the cockpit when they do all they can to kill her and evade.

You do realise the only reason that requim missed was the Jule Squade shot out the thruster before the last section that was needed to aim was fully inplace. so essentially the one at fault for the civilian deaths was Deaka and had nothing to do with a miscalculation.

PSJ

Mon, 08-22-2005, 11:33 AM

Fuck that it was windam pilots who can't fight properly and couldn't protect the reflector. You really don't see when something isn't serious.

Splash!

Mon, 08-22-2005, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by: Black_Wing
I blame zaft if you think about it they failed to capture dijibril when they caught all the other members of logos . SO i blame zaft and of course luna maria for missing

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE!

Well, if Athrun didn't show up he'd most likely have time to kill Djibril off thus preventing the deaths of a gazillion people. How the hell is that immature?

Well only blaming Athrun and Shinn is immature!

Um...First at Terra, Athuran isn't to blame, they're (him and Kira) defending ORB. I mean, would you let a bunch of ppl just come and destroy your home just cause they're looking for one guy, highly doubt it. I'm pointing out that he is immature in blaming others, not trying to find Djibril. I don't mind a rebuttal but argue the point made instead of deviating from it. I'm not a shinn hater or trying to make him seem less of a pilot or what not, but truth be is that he still must grow up. The guy is blinded by rage that stems from his failure to protect his loved ones, and he directs that anger at people. Take responsibility for your actions (Stella was his fault in my opinion) and try to fight in order to protect your ideals and what you hold dear instead of fighting out of anger and hate!

Secondly, I'm not playing the blame game (directed at FelixZeroAlastor) so your comment there is unmerited. I'm only pointing out the obvious, Shinn fails to take the blame on himself and pushes it on other people. He blames Freedom for Stella's death, he blames Athuran for Djibril, he blames ORB and Cagalli's father for his family. Instead of having some NUTS and acknowledging that he cannot protect his loved ones as he wishes and trying to change that for the better, he says "it's your fault." I"m so sick and tired of that attitude, I feel like I'm watching a five year old when he goes through that bratty crap. Someone please give the guy a tissue, quit playing the damn violin for the smuck. He needs to grow up, realize that some things are out of his hands and come to terms with the lack of power he has in protecting what he holds dear. Blaming someone else for mistakes is not the answer. Athuran is NOT at fault for Djibril, he did what was right to prevent the deaths of innocent people in ORB.

I agree that it is Luna who should take partial blame since she failed to shoot down the shuttle. However, and I stress this the most, if Djibril was so important to kill then the Minerva (ZAFT) should have gone after that shuttle right away instead of resupplying and resting. And yes, there are going to be people who put up a valid argument for the Minverva. But excuses won't take you anywhere, bottom line is it's their fault, even Rey said it in this episode.

not to make this a political discussion but the part about destroying an entire country to find one person..... hmm reminds you of a scenario in the real world, doesnt it? Only Dullindal seems to be smarter than his real world counterpart

pegasussaint

Mon, 08-22-2005, 11:59 AM

Motteh

Mon, 08-22-2005, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by: splash
About the part of Requiem being left with only the traget of earth....

Actually not quite. During the episode they showed that Requiem has reflectors in several random places and all destroying one reflector will mean is that they have to use an alternate path using different reflectors. Its not that all the reflectors were laid out in a single line and can only be used for one pattern of attack. Its like a whole web of them. So unless at least half of those things are destoyed at the right places, it can still target PLANT, but targeting specific colonies might pose a problem with one reflector down.
Better still, take down Requiem itselfwell you could take out the very first reflector that Requiem connects too, because the actual shot seems to be only capable of going in a straight line
so, in theory, if you take out the "main" reflector then you could prevent Requiem from hitting anything but space dust (this ofcourse depends on the place the cannon is situated and the morons that happen to be flying in the way i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif)

Splash!

Mon, 08-22-2005, 01:30 PM

true but cant you change the coordinates of the main shot to aim at another reflector. The cannon doesnt have to aim towards that one reflector. Genesis could aim at targets and i believe requiem should be able to do so to. The reason they actually need the reflectors is because its built in a location where you cant get a clear shot of the PLANT. Thus it has been hidden all this while

As i said, one or two wont do it, but destroying a FEW in the right places can stop its functionality. Basically take out the reflectors requiem can target from its location. Do that and then, as motteh suggested, it will hit nothing but space dust.

EDIT: Actually no, theres another problem, Requiem is built on the moon right?? Therefore requiem is orbiting the earth. Wait a few days and requiem might be in position to target a reflector it couldnt before

Curium

Mon, 08-22-2005, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by: splash
EDIT: Actually no, theres another problem, Requiem is built on the moon right?? Therefore requiem is orbiting the earth. Wait a few days and requiem might be in position to target a reflector it couldnt before

That depends on the orbit speed of the deflectors. I know in Gundam X the colonies orbited at the same speed as the moon so they were always on the opposite side of the the Earth from the moon. They very well may have the same orbital speed. However since they can obviously move them, they could just move a replacement into place after a while.

Motteh

Mon, 08-22-2005, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by: splash
EDIT: Actually no, theres another problem, Requiem is built on the moon right?? Therefore requiem is orbiting the earth. Wait a few days and requiem might be in position to target a reflector it couldnt beforehmm, you're right, so if you take that and the cannon's capability to aim at different reflectors in it's sight (assuming it does have that capability) it would probably be more troop efficient to just take the cannon out

edit: not sure if i remember correctly but doesn't the moon rotate on an axis of it's own?

Curium

Mon, 08-22-2005, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by: Motteh
edit: not sure if i remember correctly but doesn't the moon rotate on an axis of it's own?

The Moon rotates at a speed so the same side is always faceing the Earth. Whether it is a Full Moon or a New Moon, the same side of the Moon is always facing us.

Motteh

Mon, 08-22-2005, 05:08 PM

well i've thought that i read somewhere that the moon rotates along an axis of it's own
but it's been a long time and the memory is pretty vague, so i'll just assume i'm mistaken

(maybe i'll do some minor research on this later on)

burnout

Mon, 08-22-2005, 05:18 PM

and still no link that works

i dont like that direct dl just give me a bit link and i'm happy

after 2 days only the direct link and the so called hiro came out???

:'(

i cant believe that this is it

AtHRunOwNZaLL

Mon, 08-22-2005, 08:41 PM

the hiro sub does work

Vegita

Tue, 08-23-2005, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by: pegasussaint

Originally posted by: pegasussaint
Why would AA be worried about Djibril? With what he has done just now the crew of AA knows that he is dead and even if Djibril didnt fire Requiem they all know that Zaft will get him anyways. The crew of AA are thinking about this in a realistic manner. They are a small faction, powerful but still small. Why take the risk to kill someone that you know will be taken down by a bigger opponent . Of course AA just cant join in the battle with Zaft, since they would be shot down the minute they show up. They need to survive to prevent Dullindal's plan which they have a better shot at since no one else suspects the plan.

To summarize, the crew of AA knows where Djibril stands and know that Zaft will do its best to take Djibril and the EAF down. However they are not sure where Dullindal stands and many times the unknown is what people fear the most.

Haha and if ZAFT fails to take out Dijibril before he fires the Requiem again or pulls another WMD from up his sleeve? Oops, bye bye coordinators. Guess we don't have to worry about the Destiny plan anymore since there are no coordinators and PLANT has been decimated.

Did Dullindal seem concerned that a few colony in Plant were destroyed? Not until he had to act out his outrage for the benefit of those around him. Dullindal may not even need Plant, he does have a lot of support on Earth and having Plant destroyed fuels the need to "End all wars" making it easier to impliment Destiny Plan

So you are trying to imply that Dullindal has foreseen that Dijibril would destroy a few PLANT colonies ( but not the ZAFT mobile fortress where Dullindal is), and that he also foresaw that somehow he would have enough support from Earth to fully implment his Destiny plan? IF SO then... Dullindal has foreseen eveyrthing that could possibly happen and there is no point watching anymore because Dullindal will obviously win.

burnout

Tue, 08-23-2005, 04:08 AM

well the hiro sub wont even start let alloan dl

and its not on pointblank traker

Psyke

Tue, 08-23-2005, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by: burnout
well the hiro sub wont even start let alloan dl

and its not on pointblank traker

The same thing happened to me. I installed a download resuming program and my file was done in less than 20 min. I used a software called Download Accelerator plus.

pegasussaint

Tue, 08-23-2005, 11:02 AM

So you are trying to imply that Dullindal has foreseen that Dijibril would destroy a few PLANT colonies ( but not the ZAFT mobile fortress where Dullindal is), and that he also foresaw that somehow he would have enough support from Earth to fully implment his Destiny plan? IF SO then... Dullindal has foreseen eveyrthing that could possibly happen and there is no point watching anymore because Dullindal will obviously win.

Dullindal did have the blueprints of the Destroy gundam before we saw it launched. In the corner of that same frame it kinda looks like the Requiem weapon. Dullindal in the flashbacks was with Rau in what looks like an "Extended" lab along with Rey when he was a child. In the first few episodes when the 3 gundams were stolen i think it was Sting that mentioned everyone was the same as their reports about the gundams except the appearance of Impulse. A little help with the colony drop from Dullindal would easily ignite a war with EAF if they were looking for one. The last thing i'd mention is that Rau Le Crauset had uncanny knowledge of certain weapons (Cyclops), 5 new EAF gundams and he is directly tied to Dullindal.

The best reason i can think is that Rau and Dullindal were part of Logos or had ties to them at one point and broke away when their they needed to with information that could help them in their plan. Plus it's much easier for to prolong a war if you have operatives on both sides. It would seem obvious that Dullindal has the upperhand which could be the reason the crew of AA seems more concerned with him then Djibril. They are the White Queen and White King

burnout

Tue, 08-23-2005, 11:50 AM

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: burnout
well the hiro sub wont even start let alloan dl

and its not on pointblank traker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The same thing happened to me. I installed a download resuming program and my file was done in less than 20 min. I used a software called Download Accelerator plus.

-------------------------
Our hearts are full of memories but not all of them reflect the truth. The heart isn't a recording device. Even important memories change with time. They warp or fade, leaving us with but a shadow of what we hoped to remember.

IT STILL WONT WORK

i dont get that sofware i cant figer it out

ChaosK

Tue, 08-23-2005, 07:37 PM

this episode sucked...except a big ass cannon was fired and everybody gasped and yelled and died. but nobody cried this time.

Phoenix20578

Tue, 08-23-2005, 07:42 PM

Well some non-important people cried in the backround

ChaosK

Tue, 08-23-2005, 07:43 PM

i meant kira didnt cry.

Terracosmo

Tue, 08-23-2005, 08:49 PM

Kira doesn't cry in Destiny, he lost his personality in a tragic marketing accident prior to the series' start.

redemption2

Tue, 08-23-2005, 09:23 PM

yeah, the Kira chibi-doll-that-cries didn't sell too well. They replaced it with a pant-shitting Shinn doll.

Kovash

Wed, 08-24-2005, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by: pegasussaint

The last thing i'd mention is that Rau Le Crauset had uncanny knowledge of certain weapons (Cyclops), 5 new EAF gundams and he is directly tied to Dullindal.

You see several scenes throughout the series where Rau is mask-less (save for a heavy pair of shades) exchanging data disks with various people in various isolated bars and market streets. Rau was playing both sides off against each other, and is the most likely person to have told the EAF that 'Split Break' was aimed at Josh-A rather than Panama like everyone else thought.

The point is, Rau had informats on both sides so he could manipulate events as he saw fit. The only wild card for him was the Clyne Faction and one Kira Yamato.

EDIT: the second point was that Dillundal would be the same. He knows too much, though we havn't seen hard evidence he's a co-conspiritor.

masamuneehs

Wed, 08-24-2005, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Kira doesn't cry in Destiny, he lost his personality in a tragic marketing accident prior to the series' start.

LOL, you crack me up dude.

But I actually thought everyone's reactions at Requiem's firing were believable, EXCEPT FOR LACUS!

The EAF blows away millions of civilians and she says, "We have to attack ZAFT, they're about to manipulate people through genetic engineering!" And all the ArchAngel people agree!

This reminds me of Gundam Wing when they Gundam pilots have to decide who to fight, OZ or White Fang, and even though OZ is a bunch of arrogant bastards trying to take over the entire world, they decide to fight against White Fang because of the Libra doomsday device. Their logic was that White Fang was too strong and obviously a direct threat to humanity's future.

the ArchAngel people all do the exact fucking opposite. (But we don't know quite what Messiah is yet, do we)

And the whole Destiny Plan sounded like total and utter crap. Give me a fucking break! Do you know how long that would take to implement?!? Do you know how much resistance would meet it from the vast majority of people who haven't been included in the Destiny Plan (and it can't be anyone older than 20 or so, since Rau and Dullindal aren't old enough to have been able to plant Destiny genes in their own generation or anyone before.

Lacus always says that its so sad to fight and counter attack and attack etc etc. But then she concludes with "But we must fight!"

Another thing that has really really REALLY FUCKING PISSED ME OFF THROUGHOUT ALL OF DESTINY:

WHERE THE FUCK DOES THE ARCHANGEL GET THEIR INFO FROM!?!?!?! HOW DO THEY KNOW WHAT DESTINY PLAN IS!?!? WHO SUPPLIED THEM WITH UBER-POWERED GUNDAMS! WHO PAYS FOR THEIR ARMNEMENTS, RESUPPLYING AND REPAIRS!?!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE TELL ME!!!!!!

Freki

Wed, 08-24-2005, 08:45 PM

Well the destiny plan i guess was in that folder brought back to the Eternal in episode 39, i would guess that since Lacus has many followers she could have some people spying on ZAFT all the time and relaying info on technology, Lacus also prolly has a lot of money and I bet Cagalli could use ORB to further supply her, and I mean if the story has them owning a factory disguised as an asteroid then them being able to build some uber-powered gundams in them isn't that unreasonable. As for repairs the only repairs that needed to be done were on AA, the only other thing from AA damaged was freedom before it blew up i think, and that was fixed in ORB. I don't know, some of their actions do seem rediculous but in a show like this with everything that has been happening I don't think them having access to all of these things is too farfetched.

Also, when was the last time the EAF managed to win a battle? I think that with the entire ZAFT army heading to the moon, you can assume Djibril is about to get fucked pretty hard, so why bother planning to go attack the moon where you will most likely have to fight ZAFT forces also.

Terracosmo

Wed, 08-24-2005, 09:02 PM

masemuneehs:

LOL, you crack me up dude.

WHERE THE FUCK DOES THE ARCHANGEL GET THEIR INFO FROM!?!?!?! HOW DO THEY KNOW WHAT DESTINY PLAN IS!?!? WHO SUPPLIED THEM WITH UBER-POWERED GUNDAMS! WHO PAYS FOR THEIR ARMNEMENTS, RESUPPLYING AND REPAIRS!?!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE TELL ME!!!!!!

LOL right back at you!
That's seriously so true. Most of the things that happen in Destiny is so fucking random and "convenient."

(And to think that you used to believe I was stalking you. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif)

masamuneehs

Wed, 08-24-2005, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by: Freki
Well the destiny plan i guess was in that folder brought back to the Eternal in episode 39, i would guess that since Lacus has many followers she could have some people spying on ZAFT all the time and relaying info on technology, Lacus also prolly has a lot of money and I bet Cagalli could use ORB to further supply her, and I mean if the story has them owning a factory disguised as an asteroid then them being able to build some uber-powered gundams in them isn't that unreasonable. As for repairs the only repairs that needed to be done were on AA, the only other thing from AA damaged was freedom before it blew up i think, and that was fixed in ORB. I don't know, some of their actions do seem rediculous but in a show like this with everything that has been happening I don't think them having access to all of these things is too farfetched.

Also, when was the last time the EAF managed to win a battle? I think that with the entire ZAFT army heading to the moon, you can assume Djibril is about to get fucked pretty hard, so why bother planning to go attack the moon where you will most likely have to fight ZAFT forces also.

Ok. Perhaps some of your points are relevant. Let's assume that the Destiny Plan was in those documents Lacus got in episode 39. I ask, how was Dullindal so sloppy with his secret plan that his enemy got it? Cagalli supplied Lacus with money? But Cagalli was out of the nation for a good portion of the action AND she didn't know about Destiny till Lacus told her. They have a disguised factory. I ask, who built that factory and how come ZAFT didn't know about it? As for repairs on AA, where did they get the money to pay for it? Who even has the ability to fix such a ship outside of ORB, EAF or ZAFT, all of which were against AA at the time?

And for your final point: NO!! ZAFT would have wiped out the EAF a long long time ago if it weren't for Lacus faction's interference. Minerva is almost always fighting AA, Destiny/Impulse & Legend are almost constantly fighting Kira whenever AA is in the battle. AA's attacking ZAFT throws a huge chance of opportunity to EAF because ZAFT suddenly has to fight two different enemies.

And do you think Dullindal doesn't know AA is coming after him? He'll have plenty of troops around Messiah, don't you sweat it.

Kovash

Wed, 08-24-2005, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Let's assume that the Destiny Plan was in those documents Lacus got in episode 39. I ask, how was Dullindal so sloppy with his secret plan that his enemy got it?

Lacus has spies scattered all through ZAFT on most if not all levels, just seeing how long she survived a complete manhunt against her proves she is more resourceful than people (veiwers) give her credit for. Even so the Destiny Plan wasn't completely detailed in those documents Lacus got her hands on - just a whole bunch of coallated information. Lacus is smart, she read those documents and put 2 and 2 together, hence she began her entire explaination with the phrase 'I think'.

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Cagalli supplied Lacus with money? But Cagalli was out of the nation for a good portion of the action AND she didn't know about Destiny till Lacus told her.

Lacus and the Clyne faction ORB and Morganrate had the better half of 2 years to develop and build IJ and SF, I don't see how it's so 'random and illogical'.

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
They have a disguised factory. I ask, who built that factory and how come ZAFT didn't know about it?

Again, 2 years, and Lacus is both a Pop Star AND a major political figurehead. She probably has a load of money stashed away in one of her huge mansions and an inexaughstable supply of favours from various people all over tghe Earth Sphere, particually in ZAFT.

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
As for repairs on AA, where did they get the money to pay for it? Who even has the ability to fix such a ship outside of ORB, EAF or ZAFT, all of which were against AA at the time?

Repairs have always been foggy, in G.SEED the AA had one of it's Gottfreid Cannons blown up by the Dominion, then 5 minutes later, they dock and spend 10 minutes on repairs and it's all fixed. I attribute this mainly to bad writing, though if any ship takes major damage they always dock somewhere first (as seen by the Minerva's need to dock to repair the Taunhausser.)

Point: Lacus is rich and resourceful, I wouldn't put much past her, considering she obviously has access to most ZAFT top-secret information AND Morganrate behind her to develop any technology she wants.

EDIT: And before someone asks, "If they has IJ and SF for a hwile now, why didn't Kira just get into SF instead of pussy footing around?" I'd say, the same reason Dillundal gave Shinn the Impulse to begin with instead of the Destiny (which was completed by that point.)

Curium

Wed, 08-24-2005, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by: Kovash
EDIT: And before someone asks, "If they has IJ and SF for a hwile now, why didn't Kira just get into SF instead of pussy footing around?" I'd say, the same reason Dillundal gave Shinn the Impulse to begin with instead of the Destiny (which was completed by that point.)

I have no proof, but I believe Destiny was finished at that point, but they couldn't put it into service since they were trying to hold to the Junius 7 treaty.

Kovash

Wed, 08-24-2005, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by: Curium
I have no proof, but I believe Destiny was finished at that point, but they couldn't put it into service since they were trying to hold to the Junius 7 treaty.

I considered that for a while - but it strikes me as odd that Destiny and Legend can still run out of power like a normal suit. Somehow I doubt that Their energy requirements could be anywhere near as much as Freedom, considering the amount of beams on that thing (most of Destiny's weapons are independant of the suit itself.)

The point is, Dillundal has kept the world' favour by adhearing to any and all rules, somehow I don't think he's justified enough in both his eyes and the eyes of the world to resort to nuclear technology yet. So yeah... somehow I don't think that's the real reason.

EDIT: I've just ben over all conversational peices (inside the show) about Destiny and Legend, and no one ever makes mention of their Nuclear Engines, furthur giving me the impression that they are not true nuclear engines and within the bounds of the treaty.

Freki

Thu, 08-25-2005, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
And for your final point: NO!! ZAFT would have wiped out the EAF a long long time ago if it weren't for Lacus faction's interference. Minerva is almost always fighting AA, Destiny/Impulse & Legend are almost constantly fighting Kira whenever AA is in the battle. AA's attacking ZAFT throws a huge chance of opportunity to EAF because ZAFT suddenly has to fight two different enemies.

I'm confused by this... Earlier you thought it was dumb that AA was ignoring Djibril's big weapon. I was just saying that AA shouldn't go attack Djibril because they would end up fighting with ZAFT too and with the entire ZAFT army heading to the moon Djibril is screwed. There is no reason for AA to focus on Djibril, they should be more worried about Dullindal if they think his Destiny Plan needs to be stopped since they are only ones who really can do anything about it at this point.

I agree that AA delayed ZAFT wiping out EAF since I can't really think of any battles that the EAF has won so far.

KapsLocked

Thu, 08-25-2005, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by: Kovash

Repairs have always been foggy, in G.SEED the AA had one of it's Gottfreid Cannons blown up by the Dominion, then 5 minutes later, they dock and spend 10 minutes on repairs and it's all fixed. I attribute this mainly to bad writing, though if any ship takes major damage they always dock somewhere first (as seen by the Minerva's need to dock to repair the Taunhausser.)

Hmm... it may be attributed to the type of repair station they went to. Let's take the example of the AA being repaired at the ORB location in the last few eps of GSi/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif. That repair station was secretly owned by... I forgot her name. But it was secret and there was probably a lack of engineers and mechanics to do the job quickly.

The place they fixed AA before in GS was probably a place where a battle was going on, hence all the repairs were more urgent and there were plenty of mechanics to go around.

Then again, I don't remember every detail of GS, I'm just making logical assumptions.

dead

Thu, 08-25-2005, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by: masamuneehs

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Kira doesn't cry in Destiny, he lost his personality in a tragic marketing accident prior to the series' start.

LOL, you crack me up dude.

But I actually thought everyone's reactions at Requiem's firing were believable, EXCEPT FOR LACUS!

The EAF blows away millions of civilians and she says, "We have to attack ZAFT, they're about to manipulate people through genetic engineering!" And all the ArchAngel people agree!

This reminds me of Gundam Wing when they Gundam pilots have to decide who to fight, OZ or White Fang, and even though OZ is a bunch of arrogant bastards trying to take over the entire world, they decide to fight against White Fang because of the Libra doomsday device. Their logic was that White Fang was too strong and obviously a direct threat to humanity's future.

the ArchAngel people all do the exact fucking opposite. (But we don't know quite what Messiah is yet, do we)

And the whole Destiny Plan sounded like total and utter crap. Give me a fucking break! Do you know how long that would take to implement?!? Do you know how much resistance would meet it from the vast majority of people who haven't been included in the Destiny Plan (and it can't be anyone older than 20 or so, since Rau and Dullindal aren't old enough to have been able to plant Destiny genes in their own generation or anyone before.

Lacus always says that its so sad to fight and counter attack and attack etc etc. But then she concludes with "But we must fight!"

Another thing that has really really REALLY FUCKING PISSED ME OFF THROUGHOUT ALL OF DESTINY:

WHERE THE FUCK DOES THE ARCHANGEL GET THEIR INFO FROM!?!?!?! HOW DO THEY KNOW WHAT DESTINY PLAN IS!?!? WHO SUPPLIED THEM WITH UBER-POWERED GUNDAMS! WHO PAYS FOR THEIR ARMNEMENTS, RESUPPLYING AND REPAIRS!?!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE TELL ME!!!!!!

wow dude, all those questions have been answered a million times, no joke.

yeah yeah yeah the destiny plan sounded like crap, so what? so far the whole GSD script has been crap.

and yeah, the clyne faction has a lot of money to waste on new gundams, Lacus is freakin rich, if she wants to expend a couple of bucks in a new gundam instead of going to a beach resort then what the hell, its her money! heck, if i had her money I would also make kick ass weapons of mass destruction, jeez, ppl do it in real life anyways.

and yes, the AA gets repaired and resuplied and shit like that, but then again its been sponsored by the Clyne faction, ORB, and Nike, so what do you expect???

and yes, the AA is going against ZAFT and not against LOGOS but then again if you tryed to kill me (dullindale) i would not just go against the ppl whos trying to kill you (djbril) just like that (or at least not yet). heck im not sayin thats the reaason but thats what i would do, and heck, thats what AA is doing i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Illrenmazou

Thu, 08-25-2005, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
And the whole Destiny Plan sounded like total and utter crap. Give me a fucking break! Do you know how long that would take to implement?!? Do you know how much resistance would meet it from the vast majority of people who haven't been included in the Destiny Plan (and it can't be anyone older than 20 or so, since Rau and Dullindal aren't old enough to have been able to plant Destiny genes in their own generation or anyone before.

Unless Fukuda rips an idea from Xenogears- using nanomacines to alter the genetic structure of people i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

SFreedomZGMFx20a

Thu, 08-25-2005, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
masemuneehs:

LOL, you crack me up dude.

WHERE THE FUCK DOES THE ARCHANGEL GET THEIR INFO FROM!?!?!?! HOW DO THEY KNOW WHAT DESTINY PLAN IS!?!? WHO SUPPLIED THEM WITH UBER-POWERED GUNDAMS! WHO PAYS FOR THEIR ARMNEMENTS, RESUPPLYING AND REPAIRS!?!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE TELL ME!!!!!!

LOL right back at you!
That's seriously so true. Most of the things that happen in Destiny is so fucking random and "convenient."

(And to think that you used to believe I was stalking you. )

Isnt it obvious?, they get their info from the Clyne Faction and ORB, maybe u forget, but ORB is a country and the Clyne Faction is a minority group who doesnt approve or condone Plant's Chairman. Its obvious a minority group like that cant win, unless they have the upper hand, how to get that? WITH INTEL!!!!.

Lacus knows what the Destiny PLan is because she read the Diary or Notes of some Scientific or friend of Dullindal, where he says "Dullindall's Destiny Plan is promising" or something like that, the probability of what the Destiny plan is written in it is HIGH. Either way, a WORLD WITHOUT WAR, only way to do that is for Mankind to reach a point in evolution where they arent humans anymore (humans always have disputes which is equal to WAR or FIGHTS). My point being, they need to be like ANTS where every individual has a predetermined task (ANTS have only 2 or 3 kinds of jobs, not sure, but u get where im getting), and only way of doing that is through GENE-MANIPULATION, given each indibidual certain potential, certain determinated place in society, where ones DESTINY is chosen at birth for someone (DULLINDAL, I knew he had a GOD-COMPLEX, the guy who fansubbed CEllphone's Phase 40 was right, check the end of the post to see what im talking about).

NOW, the uber GUNDAMS. Let me see, again INTEL has its part here. The Clyne Faction wasnt disbanded, they knew the possibility for another war was high, they only buy some time. My question is, do u really think PLANT and EAF would use the same weapons? of course not, THEY R HUMANS, humans would get mor epowerful weapons to strike at their enemy, to improve themselves, obviously the Clyne Faction would need more powerful GUNDAMS and weapons which is equal to SFreedom and Ijustice (and who kinows how more many MS or Ships they have).

Who pays?, maybe u dont know but there is always people who supports projects because they can earn even more money, they belive in the cause, U forget who leads the Clyne Faction? Lacus Clyne, an Idol and Daughter of a former Chairman of PLANT ( i posted this before), u cant expect her to be poor and alone in her quest. duh.

Who repairs? let me think thi is a hard one to answer. Last time i checked ORB had Mongaenraete and the CLYNE FACTION had a Factory where Sfreedom and Ijustice were developed!!!!. But, where do they get their repairs done?. OMG, i dont know the answer. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif. (I hope every one got this)

CELLPHONE's Phase 40:

Dullindal: "Now is time for me to gaze out of my very large windows"
"So i can se things clearly"
"Like in the depths of your souls"
"Holy Shit im GOD, and SHinn is my JESUS"

REY GOT EXCLUDED i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

I HOPE EVERYTHING IS CLEAR NOW.

Wizard054

Thu, 08-25-2005, 12:32 PM

SEED-Fansubs 44 is released...
Check your usual places for it...

masamuneehs

Thu, 08-25-2005, 03:21 PM

Ok you all. Unless you've forgotten what happened, the Clyne faction does have money, Lacus does have supporters and ORB does have Morgenrate.

BUT consider this: For most of Destiny ORB has been fighting against the ArchAngel & crew under the direction of Yuna Roma. Do you think they'd just let Morgenrate supply weapons to their enemy? Countries develop weapons because they have billions of tax dollars and human resources to use to research and develop massive weapons. They also keep a tight lid so that their best secrets and recent developments aren't stolen by random do-gooders & other factions.

Consider this: Almost everyone in ZAFT believed that Dullindal's Meer Campbell was the real Lacus FOR ALMOST ALL OF DESTINY! There is no explanation how/if/when the Clyne faction people found out which Lacus was the real one, it is totally left out. Also, if ZAFT has any kind of modernized banking system Lacus' purchasing of military hardware would draw a zillion red flags. Also, who in ZAFT would sell them weapons to develop IJ and the new Justice? Who in the Clyne faction would even be in the position to disobey Dullindal, steal and sell ZAFT's military secrets to Lacus? This is also never explained. Who are her spies who can access Dullindal's dubious Destiny Plan? How come nobody else could find anything about it? This is also not explained.

A big Factory floating in space that ZAFT has no idea about? A splinter group of Morgenrate working under who to supply the AA? Top of the line military hardware being smuggled outside of two nations THAT ARE AT FREAKIN WAR PEOPLE and handed over to a popstar and her cohorts who have been slipping around in the background and never come forward with a formal statement until episode 44? TOP OF THE FUCKING LINE MILITARY HARDWARE PEOPLE! Anyone have any clue how fucking impossible it'd be for some popstar and a dethroned ORB ambassador to pay for all that?

I DON'T WANT DEUS-EX-MACHINA BULLSHIT! I WILL NOT ACCEPT HALF ANSWERS! I WILL SHOUT AND YELL AND CRITICIZE UNTIL THINGS ARE EXPLAINED PROPERLY!

EDIT: Oh, and to those who keep talking about Clyne faction supporters, please tell me who these people are, where they've been the entire Destiny series, how they can openly defy Dullindal (who will pay them better than Lacus) and then I'll believe that the Clyne faction isn't some BS invention of cheesiness by Fukuda.

aznroyale

Thu, 08-25-2005, 03:53 PM

SEED Fansub (https://http://seed.eatshoe.com/torrents/[SEED-Fansubs]%20Gundam%20SEED%20Destiny%20-%2044.avi.torrent)

pegasussaint

Thu, 08-25-2005, 05:24 PM

BUT consider this: For most of Destiny ORB has been fighting against the ArchAngel & crew under the direction of Yuna Roma. Do you think they'd just let Morgenrate supply weapons to their enemy? Countries develop weapons because they have billions of tax dollars and human resources to use to research and develop massive weapons. They also keep a tight lid so that their best secrets and recent developments aren't stolen by random do-gooders & other factions.

Consider this: Almost everyone in ZAFT believed that Dullindal's Meer Campbell was the real Lacus FOR ALMOST ALL OF DESTINY! There is no explanation how/if/when the Clyne faction people found out which Lacus was the real one, it is totally left out. Also, if ZAFT has any kind of modernized banking system Lacus' purchasing of military hardware would draw a zillion red flags. Also, who in ZAFT would sell them weapons to develop IJ and the new Justice? Who in the Clyne faction would even be in the position to disobey Dullindal, steal and sell ZAFT's military secrets to Lacus? This is also never explained. Who are her spies who can access Dullindal's dubious Destiny Plan? How come nobody else could find anything about it? This is also not explained.

A big Factory floating in space that ZAFT has no idea about? A splinter group of Morgenrate working under who to supply the AA? Top of the line military hardware being smuggled outside of two nations THAT ARE AT FREAKIN WAR PEOPLE and handed over to a popstar and her cohorts who have been slipping around in the background and never come forward with a formal statement until episode 44? TOP OF THE FUCKING LINE MILITARY HARDWARE PEOPLE! Anyone have any clue how fucking impossible it'd be for some popstar and a dethroned ORB ambassador to pay for all that?

Lets me ask you this, how can the coordinaters that dropped Junis 7 have gotten the materials and Ginns and Zakus to create the job? How did Logos (Phantom Pain) get what seems to be an almost complete report of where and the types of 3 secret Gundams and steal them. It was mentioned that the crew of AA was in Scandinavia, maybe they got help from them? Maybe because of the last war and their heroics in them a lot of people trust them and believe in them. Maybe thats why Morgenroete helped AA, all Cagalli has to do is show up. She is still their representive. About Lacus's bank account, maybe she moved the cash around to Orb or another neutral country. There could be a lot of spies, double agents going on. The problem is this. . . . .they only have 50 episodes to tell this story.

Btw Morgenroete is a private company based in Orb which is one of the TOP of the line military contractor who has sercretly collaborated with the EAF before. Who's to say that they cant support the AA?

Freki

Thu, 08-25-2005, 06:47 PM

The AA hasn't been in that many fights over the course of Destiny, they went against Minerva 3 times on their own and once after rejoining ORB and then they went against Stellar's Destory. The only time the really needed to resupply would have been after the AA got beat by Minerva when Freedom was destroyed and some of those repairswere shown during the show, they showed them doing that stuff when Kira took off for space in 39 even. Even before that point the ship was in Scandanavia. I don't think it is to hard to imagine that during the 2 years of peace between SEED and GSD that the AA crew could have stockpiled supplies in the place they were hiding the AA.

About everyone believing Meer was Lacus, obviously those close to Lacus knew she wasn't and if Lacus has been getting info from spies I imagine showing that she is the real Lacus before hand isn't some impossible feet, she also coud have been getting info from people like that guy that has always been with Waltfeld(sorry don't know his name) who could have investigated himself or had other people he was in contact with. We don't know how many people have believed Meer was real this whole time GSD has been going on. Just look at the DOM trio, do you think they have lived in that factory for 2 years or do you think Lacus got in contact with them after war broke out.

There must be so much crap floating through space that I don't find it that surprising that something that looks like an asteroid hasn't been discovered yet, and about technology, I would be far more surprised that the Chairman was able to uncover the identity of the LOGOS members as I am sure they were a huge secret known only to top EAF military personal, then Lacus getting info from ZAFT when she has enormous influence in ZAFT and the fact that i doubt that every single person who worked on the development and construction of Destiny and Legend was in the top echelons of the ZAFT military. Besides we saw Lacus' ability to gather information in SEED when she was able to give Kira Freedom.

Curium

Thu, 08-25-2005, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by: Freki
getting info from people like that guy that has always been with Waltfeld(sorry don't know his name)

Martin DeCosta

SFreedomZGMFx20a

Thu, 08-25-2005, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Ok you all. Unless you've forgotten what happened, the Clyne faction does have money, Lacus does have supporters and ORB does have Morgenrate.

BUT consider this: For most of Destiny ORB has been fighting against the ArchAngel & crew under the direction of Yuna Roma. Do you think they'd just let Morgenrate supply weapons to their enemy? Countries develop weapons because they have billions of tax dollars and human resources to use to research and develop massive weapons. They also keep a tight lid so that their best secrets and recent developments aren't stolen by random do-gooders & other factions.

Consider this: Almost everyone in ZAFT believed that Dullindal's Meer Campbell was the real Lacus FOR ALMOST ALL OF DESTINY! There is no explanation how/if/when the Clyne faction people found out which Lacus was the real one, it is totally left out. Also, if ZAFT has any kind of modernized banking system Lacus' purchasing of military hardware would draw a zillion red flags. Also, who in ZAFT would sell them weapons to develop IJ and the new Justice? Who in the Clyne faction would even be in the position to disobey Dullindal, steal and sell ZAFT's military secrets to Lacus? This is also never explained. Who are her spies who can access Dullindal's dubious Destiny Plan? How come nobody else could find anything about it? This is also not explained.

A big Factory floating in space that ZAFT has no idea about? A splinter group of Morgenrate working under who to supply the AA? Top of the line military hardware being smuggled outside of two nations THAT ARE AT FREAKIN WAR PEOPLE and handed over to a popstar and her cohorts who have been slipping around in the background and never come forward with a formal statement until episode 44? TOP OF THE FUCKING LINE MILITARY HARDWARE PEOPLE! Anyone have any clue how fucking impossible it'd be for some popstar and a dethroned ORB ambassador to pay for all that?

I DON'T WANT DEUS-EX-MACHINA BULLSHIT! I WILL NOT ACCEPT HALF ANSWERS! I WILL SHOUT AND YELL AND CRITICIZE UNTIL THINGS ARE EXPLAINED PROPERLY!

EDIT: Oh, and to those who keep talking about Clyne faction supporters, please tell me who these people are, where they've been the entire Destiny series, how they can openly defy Dullindal (who will pay them better than Lacus) and then I'll believe that the Clyne faction isn't some BS invention of cheesiness by Fukuda.

Ok, here are some thoughts, use ur f*****g brain. As a start, its trute that such an amount of money can draw red flags, but, who said she has only one bank account? who said she used a bank ccount?. F starters, u want to know names?, ok, REVEREND MARKIO is like a mediator between the JUNK GUILD and ZAFT, EAF, and ORB, so the JUNK GUILD can sell and do the things they do, REVEREND MARKIO is a supporter, former Charirwoman Canarvas must be other supporter, and who knows how much ppl. With Reverend Markio and former Chairwoman Canarvas would be enough.

Another question, do u really think the CLyne Faction receive orders by TV?. The real Lacus musthave channel to contact the members, Eternal's crew obviously know her, but in war or anything INTEL is always what can give u the upper hand, if they didnt do anything was because for a start, they didnt know exactly what were Dullindal's true intention (Proof to what the Destiny Plan is starts to appear in Phase 39) u must have at least this much brain, or do u need them to explain every bit of information and plot?.

Orb or Jona Roma wasnt supplying AA weapons, as u must have realized in Phase 42, AA wasnt in Morgaenraete, It was hided in an ISland (i could bet my life saying it was secret base only AA's Crew and close engineers working for Erica Simons knew about. In Phase 15, i think, Orb mentioned AA as an unknown, so AA wasnt officially part of ORB, it was like a secret weapon, what reason would Orb have to attack or try to stop AA if is part of their military, at that moment AA was hided in the same secret island or maybe another one. Just so u see what Orb's Representative can do.

What top of the line military was Smuggled? maybe i missed that one. Ill be waiting for ur answer.

Why would Lacus pruchase military hardware? SHE has a f*****g factory, where did that factory come from? It was obviously build or it was aleady built after the war 2 years ago (and moved). Reverend Markio has connections, a lot of connections with the JUNK GUILD (i hope by now u understand theeir name), getting materials and hardware they cant build would be easy, or at least highly doable. BTW, they didnt Assemble IJ and SF, they were BUILT almost from scratch (obviously they build based on Freedom and Justice).

Who would disobey Dullindals and sell military secrets to Lacus? What did they Sell her? what military secrets? The DOM Troopers were built in Lacus' Factory (or maybe the factory belongs to some of her supporters, that isnt clear yet). IJ and SF were built, again, based on Freedom and Justice, and upgraded.

Who r Lacus' spies who had acces to Dullindal's Destiny Plan? HAVE U BEEN WATCHING THE SHOW? Or u just had some time and put together some s**t?. DaCosta was investigating the asteroid Mendel and found the Diary wer e possibly the Destiny Plan is explained, the show still has some episodes left so wait till it ends b4 asking.

The factory nobody knew about, as i said, could probably have been moved from its original location, after all asteroids do move, and last time i checked the Universe has a lot of space were to build a factory secretly, or maybe it could have been done the same way GENESIS was.

Ok, i think i covered all.

SFreedomZGMFx20a

Thu, 08-25-2005, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Ok you all. Unless you've forgotten what happened, the Clyne faction does have money, Lacus does have supporters and ORB does have Morgenrate.

BUT consider this: For most of Destiny ORB has been fighting against the ArchAngel & crew under the direction of Yuna Roma. Do you think they'd just let Morgenrate supply weapons to their enemy? Countries develop weapons because they have billions of tax dollars and human resources to use to research and develop massive weapons. They also keep a tight lid so that their best secrets and recent developments aren't stolen by random do-gooders & other factions.

Consider this: Almost everyone in ZAFT believed that Dullindal's Meer Campbell was the real Lacus FOR ALMOST ALL OF DESTINY! There is no explanation how/if/when the Clyne faction people found out which Lacus was the real one, it is totally left out. Also, if ZAFT has any kind of modernized banking system Lacus' purchasing of military hardware would draw a zillion red flags. Also, who in ZAFT would sell them weapons to develop IJ and the new Justice? Who in the Clyne faction would even be in the position to disobey Dullindal, steal and sell ZAFT's military secrets to Lacus? This is also never explained. Who are her spies who can access Dullindal's dubious Destiny Plan? How come nobody else could find anything about it? This is also not explained.

A big Factory floating in space that ZAFT has no idea about? A splinter group of Morgenrate working under who to supply the AA? Top of the line military hardware being smuggled outside of two nations THAT ARE AT FREAKIN WAR PEOPLE and handed over to a popstar and her cohorts who have been slipping around in the background and never come forward with a formal statement until episode 44? TOP OF THE FUCKING LINE MILITARY HARDWARE PEOPLE! Anyone have any clue how fucking impossible it'd be for some popstar and a dethroned ORB ambassador to pay for all that?

I DON'T WANT DEUS-EX-MACHINA BULLSHIT! I WILL NOT ACCEPT HALF ANSWERS! I WILL SHOUT AND YELL AND CRITICIZE UNTIL THINGS ARE EXPLAINED PROPERLY!

EDIT: Oh, and to those who keep talking about Clyne faction supporters, please tell me who these people are, where they've been the entire Destiny series, how they can openly defy Dullindal (who will pay them better than Lacus) and then I'll believe that the Clyne faction isn't some BS invention of cheesiness by Fukuda.

Ok, here are some thoughts, use ur f*****g brain. As a start, its trute that such an amount of money can draw red flags, but, who said she has only one bank account? who said she used a bank ccount?. F starters, u want to know names?, ok, REVEREND MARKIO is like a mediator between the JUNK GUILD and ZAFT, EAF, and ORB, so the JUNK GUILD can sell and do the things they do, REVEREND MARKIO is a supporter, former Charirwoman Canarvas must be other supporter, and who knows how much ppl. With Reverend Markio and former Chairwoman Canarvas would be enough.

Another question, do u really think the CLyne Faction receive orders by TV?. The real Lacus musthave channel to contact the members, Eternal's crew obviously know her, but in war or anything INTEL is always what can give u the upper hand, if they didnt do anything was because for a start, they didnt know exactly what were Dullindal's true intention (Proof to what the Destiny Plan is starts to appear in Phase 39) u must have at least this much brain, or do u need them to explain every bit of information and plot?.

Orb or Jona Roma wasnt supplying AA weapons, as u must have realized in Phase 42, AA wasnt in Morgaenraete, It was hided in an ISland (i could bet my life saying it was secret base only AA's Crew and close engineers working for Erica Simons knew about. In Phase 15, i think, Orb mentioned AA as an unknown, so AA wasnt officially part of ORB, it was like a secret weapon, what reason would Orb have to attack or try to stop AA if is part of their military, at that moment AA was hided in the same secret island or maybe another one. Just so u see what Orb's Representative can do.

What top of the line military was Smuggled? maybe i missed that one. Ill be waiting for ur answer.

Why would Lacus pruchase military hardware? SHE has a f*****g factory, where did that factory come from? It was obviously build or it was aleady built after the war 2 years ago (and moved). Reverend Markio has connections, a lot of connections with the JUNK GUILD (i hope by now u understand theeir name), getting materials and hardware they cant build would be easy, or at least highly doable. BTW, they didnt Assemble IJ and SF, they were BUILT almost from scratch (obviously they build based on Freedom and Justice).

Who would disobey Dullindals and sell military secrets to Lacus? What did they Sell her? what military secrets? The DOM Troopers were built in Lacus' Factory (or maybe the factory belongs to some of her supporters, that isnt clear yet). IJ and SF were built, again, based on Freedom and Justice, and upgraded.

Who r Lacus' spies who had acces to Dullindal's Destiny Plan? HAVE U BEEN WATCHING THE SHOW? Or u just had some time and put together some s**t?. DaCosta was investigating the asteroid Mendel and found the Diary wer e possibly the Destiny Plan is explained, the show still has some episodes left so wait till it ends b4 asking.

The factory nobody knew about, as i said, could probably have been moved from its original location, after all asteroids do move, and last time i checked the Universe had a lot of space were to build a factory secretly, or maybe it could have been done the same way GENESIS was.

Ok, i think i covered all.

EDIT: SHIT.