ban-kai

[death-wing]

so in ep 44, we saw that one dr. guy's ban-kai, and it was just a really big reencarnation of his shi-kai ( sry if im getting names mixed up). in 42 or 41, i forget, we saw byakuya's sword turn into PINK flower pettles, and cut people up, (seriously, im starting to think he's actually a she, just like yourouchi) was that his ban-kai, or just a noble person move. also, wut are ur thoughts about how ichigo's bankai will look. personally, i pray that its not just a big form of zangetsu, and like some friggin kickass shaped sword, that owns everyone. what do u think it'll look like.

[mage]

It was his shikai.

[Zhan]

That was Byakuya's shikai. As for what Ichigo's bankai looks like....just wait and see.

[Ryllharu]

Don't frown on Byakuya's Shikai. All kinds of badass samurai in anime/manga/japanese movies use sakura in their attacks or attack names.

[masamuneehs]

I can see Byakuya's as being an insanely fast winged demon thing.

His Shikai is one of the hottest sword techniques/skills that I've ever seen. I cut you from all sides!

Ichigo's Bankai... I just can't wait to see. I'm thinking it will resemble a Hollow.

[kooshi]

When I first saw Byakuya's shikai for the first time, I just loved it to death. Attacking from all sides with an almost infinite amount of tiny ass blades. AND THAT'S ONLY HIS FREAKING SHIKAI! (pardon the caps, I just had to, haha)

[Roko]

It's cool when he goes "Scatter," and you just see the blade turn into petals.
Hehe, bet Gin's bankai is just a bigger sword which can stretch farther!!! =P

[elmojo]

isnt ichigo's shikai the move he used on renji? that beam?

[Itachi_y2k5]

ichigos shikai is that pointy sword without a guard.. lol

[basey44]

yea ichigos sword seems to always be in shikai

[Knives122]

it's b/c its so powerfull that it can't be sealed anymore(plus his sealed form was broken).

and that beam was his shikais ability(its like how zabimaru can stretch out)

[Jadugar]

Ichigo's bankai will be a badass sword i would imagine.



It's cool when he goes "Scatter," and you just see the blade turn into petals.

That was one of Bleach's defining moment. This Bankai has added another dimension to Bleach. I also loved it when in episode 45 the guy with the dredlock and goggles (dont know hid name) says "Cry Sozumushi".

Bleach has taken over Naruto (yesNaruto) in my top anime list and we are only watching episode 45. I will now quote what someone said (dont know where I read it in this forum)

" At this rate Bleach will rape Naruto"

[ChaosK]

ichigo's bankai will turn into his first sword but whenever he slashes a huge hollow comes out of it...(Durr...)

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Jadugar
Ichigo's bankai will be a badass sword i would imagine.



It's cool when he goes "Scatter," and you just see the blade turn into petals.

That was one of Bleach's defining moment. This Bankai has added another dimension to Bleach. I also loved it when in episode 45 the guy with the dredlock and goggles (dont know hid name) says "Cry Sozumushi".

Bleach has taken over Naruto (yesNaruto) in my top anime list and we are only watching episode 45. I will now quote what someone said (dont know where I read it in this forum)

" At this rate Bleach will rape Naruto"

That was me! That was me! *jumps and feels cool*

[Jadugar]

That was me! That was me! *jumps and feels cool*

You certainly are COOL.

Anyway I wanted to ask you (assuming u read bleach manga) how far away are we from that rape moment (Arc)?

[Assertn]

byakuya's shikai is pretty much like that one guy ishida fought who turned his sword into lots of small flying blades, except better...

the problem with shikais like that, is that the actual skill/strength/speed of the attack is beyond your control. Unless there's a way to train his sword to cover more range or flow faster or something, it's pretty much capped. Then you have shikais like renji, where it's an alteration of the sword that is still completely in the user's control. In those cases, the user can still develop their skill, strength, and speed of the attacks as necessary.

In other words, even if ichigo beat renji's shikai, renji can still develop his shikai further to prove a tougher match next time, while once byakuya's is beaten, then he's pretty much screwed (at least as far as shikais are concerned)

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Jadugar


That was me! That was me! *jumps and feels cool*

You certainly are COOL.

Anyway I wanted to ask you (assuming u read bleach manga) how far away are we from that rape moment (Arc)?

I was only referring to the anime. I'm not a manga reader i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[ChaosK]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
byakuya's shikai is pretty much like that one guy ishida fought who turned his sword into lots of small flying blades, except better...

the problem with shikais like that, is that the actual skill/strength/speed of the attack is beyond your control. Unless there's a way to train his sword to cover more range or flow faster or something, it's pretty much capped. Then you have shikais like renji, where it's an alteration of the sword that is still completely in the user's control. In those cases, the user can still develop their skill, strength, and speed of the attacks as necessary.

In other words, even if ichigo beat renji's shikai, renji can still develop his shikai further to prove a tougher match next time, while once byakuya's is beaten, then he's pretty much screwed (at least as far as shikais are concerned)


it seemed where byakuya pointing the hilt of his sword+guard of his sword at (after shikai) the blades would go in that direction, i doubt somebody with byakya's status and skill would be unable to control his shikai.

and i predict the place where bleach rapes naruto to be...in like five episodes (or less)

[DeluxSkillz]

kenpachi vs ichigo and ishida vs mayuri already raped naruto, this show is only gonna get better and better and the naruto anime is starting to suck more and more it isn't even worth watching any more

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
it seemed where byakuya pointing the hilt of his sword+guard of his sword at (after shikai) the blades would go in that direction, i doubt somebody with byakya's status and skill would be unable to control his shikai.

and i predict the place where bleach rapes naruto to be...in like five episodes (or less)

im not talking about control, im talking about skill/speed/strength

[Munsu]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
byakuya's shikai is pretty much like that one guy ishida fought who turned his sword into lots of small flying blades, except better...

the problem with shikais like that, is that the actual skill/strength/speed of the attack is beyond your control. Unless there's a way to train his sword to cover more range or flow faster or something, it's pretty much capped. Then you have shikais like renji, where it's an alteration of the sword that is still completely in the user's control. In those cases, the user can still develop their skill, strength, and speed of the attacks as necessary.

In other words, even if ichigo beat renji's shikai, renji can still develop his shikai further to prove a tougher match next time, while once byakuya's is beaten, then he's pretty much screwed (at least as far as shikais are concerned)

Well, in the world of Bleach physical skill, strength, and speed means shit... It all comes down on your spirit level and how you gain control over it... so as long as you can improve yourself in the spirit department, every shikai should improve...

[Roko]

Then is it also possible to improve your Bankai then? because if you "call" your soul slayer into the world, can the soul slayer improve? Or is there a limit?

[Munsu]

You are speculating that the bankai is when the soul slayer is summoned in to their world, when we still don't know the real nature of what the bankai actually is...

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
You are speculating that the bankai is when the soul slayer is summoned in to their world, when we still don't know the real nature of what the bankai actually is...

See episode 45. Yoroichi makes it rather clear that Bankai is "manifestation" of the Soul Slayer, the sword actually becoming the spirit behind it. This is almost exactly opposite of Shikai which has the spirit infuse its energy into the Soul Slayer, empowering the sword and causing the sword's shape to change.

And the animal manifestations, like monkey/snake Zabimaru and Zangetsu the person are the "materialized release", or Bankai.

Still, I have a feeling once Ichigo really gets his bankai skill down and uses it in battle, it will NOT look like Zangetsu, but much more like a Hollow.

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: Roko
Then is it also possible to improve your Bankai then? because if you "call" your soul slayer into the world, can the soul slayer improve? Or is there a limit?

I believe its possible to improve your Bankai. Remeber when Ichigo had no soul slayer and no powers whatsoever. Look how far he has come. I am sure he will go up another level or two if the events or story demands it. His motto is "fighting is meaning less", he wants to win. As long as he has that will to win he will improve.

[Roko]

Yes, but as Masamuneehs said, "This [Bankai] is almost exactly opposite of Shikai which has the spirit[user] infuse its energy into the Soul Slayer, empowering the sword." Therefore, it is possible for one to improve their Shikai by training and retaining more control over their spirit power. But because Bankai is the exact opposite, and calls the soul slayer into the world, can one still improve?

[Ryllharu]

It probably works the same way. Ichigo has been learning more and more about Zangetsu as the series progresses. He knew nothing of his sword, and was weak. The more he became familiar with the old man, the more powerful he got, eventually to the point where he could defeat Kenpachi, a monster if there ever was one.

The more one becomes acquainted with their zanpakutou, the stronger both get. Even after ban kai, I'm sure Ichigo will still have a lot to learn about it, and the things it can do. The more time spent training with it, one can probably learn how best to use it, and any other abilities the ban kai may have. Time is the only thing that can make it stronger, but after that there is probably a limit, which is full knowledge inside and out of your zanpakutou, including its ban kai form. Probably only a shinigami life span would ever allow one this time.

[Roko]

okay, so let me get this straight: from what I've derived, Bankai improvement is based on the user's control and knowledge over their soul slayer, while Shikai is control over spirit power poured into the sword. So in other words: The Bankai's sword power is set, and improvement depends wholly on the user's knowledge. Shikai, on the other hand, allows for improvement on the sword power based on the user's spirit control. Right?

Getting a bit technical here. Looking at Ryllharu's sig area, I really hope this wasn't a stupid question i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Ryllharu]

I always thought they both allowed improvement, just in terms of practicing with it's various forms. But as far as I can tell, you pretty much have the same sort of idea I had.

A shikai would get stronger and stonger with either spirit power (like Ichigo's blasts or maybe Tousen's sleep wave, or whatever that was) or with basic weapons practice (like Ikkaku's, Renji's, and the majority of the shikai's we've seen). But Shikai's can't get any stronger unless your will is focused (like the Kenpachi fight, including the speech he gave) and through just learning how it's different form could be utilized.

A bankai (as far as we've seen) would bring you right to the limit of your power instantly. However, the more time you spend with it and again, see the way it can be used in a fight and the various powers it must have (as in Mayuri's gas, assuming that isn't the only kind of bankai). The more time you practice with that, the closer you get to your own limit. Having it probably doesn't mean you are instantly at the peak of your power, because not practicing with it would make fighting with it awkward and inevitably resulting in failure (and probably death). Just having it would boost your power a lot, but knowing every facet of it would let you hit the true height of your limit.

[Roko]

Got it. thanks for the explanation.

[masamuneehs]

My biggest question about Bankai is what happens when they are defeated (as happened to Capt. Mayuri) ?

Can the Soul Slayers die? Or does the person wielding it have to die?

[Y]

Mayuri's sword was still intact, and even fucking up a Zanpakutou really bad (like Renji's) doesn't destroy the spirit inside.

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: Y
Mayuri's sword was still intact, and even fucking up a Zanpakutou really bad (like Renji's) doesn't destroy the spirit inside.

In ep 38 Zaraki broke Ichico's sword in two pieces that didnt effect him at all. He became even stronger. This means as long as the person is alive he can repair the previous damage done to the soul slayer or even call upon their bankai again.

[dark maginn]

lol i never knew that until now

[Y]

Originally posted by: Jadugar

In ep 38 Zaraki broke Ichico's sword in two pieces that didnt effect him at all. He became even stronger. This means as long as the person is alive he can repair the previous damage done to the soul slayer or even call upon their bankai again.

That is what I was implying, yes.

[Mut]

Y, don't copy what Jadugar said and pretend that that's what you meant.

[Y]

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Y, don't copy what Jadugar said and pretend that that's what you meant.

I hate you so much.

[Jadugar]

Y, don't copy what Jadugar said and pretend that that's what you meant.

Let him be the center of attention. He likes it.

[Y]

Originally posted by: Jadugar


Let him be the center of attention. He likes it.

What the fuck is this shit?

[Munsu]

Your dad, don't you recognize him?

[Jadugar]

LOL, that was funny Bud.

[Y]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
Your dad, don't you recognize him?

Bud, your burns are as cold as ever.

[ChaosK]

Originally posted by: Jadugar
LOL, that was funny Bud.


to contridict that thats probably the most played out line since "your mom"

jadugar doesnt take much to impress you does it?

i DO however like Y's retort.

[Jadugar]

I am new here but looking at the Bud and Y's post I think their "friendship" is a very warm one.

And yes I am easily impressed.

Are you guys done yet? Get back on topic.
- GotWoot Moderator

[Jadugar]

Getting back to the topic.

what was the topic?..............

O yes, Ichigo's bankai.

What about Byakuya's Bankai. I mean his Shankai was fucking awesome as we have seen. Scater......

Waiting to see his Bankai. His Bankai will have to be a badass one if he has to resist Ichigo's Bankai. Also he has a vast exprience in that department.

[Honinbou]

Still.. I dont hope that if ichigo gets his bankai he easily beats up 3 captains or so in a row...
what I mean is.. I dont hope any1 would get overpowered.. that would really fuck the anime up...
Lets hope and w8 i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[masamuneehs]

^^^^ Mentioned one of my greatest fears for this series. Overpowered, invincible protagonists have a way of totally destroying any interest in the show (because you simply know who is going to win, what move thy're going to use "RASENGAN!" "SF shoots from all directions!" and the bad guys still act like tough shit and get owned in a heartbeat.

I hope that Ichigo's discovering his Bankai release puts him on a level with Byakuya, but that the show doesn't began to deteriorate to a "My special attack vs. yours" DBZ kind of thing....

I have been really enjoying Bleach because I know that the characters probably won't die and that the good guys will prevail, but the story is unfolded in such a way that you're never sure how it will happen, and sometimes the good guys get their asses kicked or are captured even after winning. Keeps you on your toes.

[Ryllharu]

Well, as a reader, I'm gonna be really careful about what I say, but everyone should remember that Ichigo has been seriously injured in just about every fight since coming to SS. (Needed Ikkaku's salve, Hanataro after Renji fight, Yoruichi after Kenpachi, more healing after Yoruichi gut-stabbed him). With that trend, despite how much stronger he has gotten since they first came to SS, we can hope that that will continue.

Just because Ichigo gets his ban kai doesn't necessitate that he is stronger than every captain. It means he has the same skills as a captain, nothing more. He has an absurd amount of spirit energy, but so does every captain (the crushing auras that both Kenpachi and Byakuya displayed).

If the series did turn out in one of the ways listed above, I'm sure I wouldn't like Bleach nearly as much as I do. And I'm still hoping for a season break after eps 52 (to keep lame fillers like Naruto's out of the storyline because so far everything has been in the manga in some place or another).

[rpgmasterjayo]

No Spoilers allowed here. User has been warned

GotWoot Moderator

[Y]

Originally posted by: rpgmasterjayo
LOTS OF STUPID MANGA SPOILERS

Edit that out, you fucking retard.

[kooshi]

What an absolute asshole, spoiling this for the anime viewers. Making a new account just to avoid revealing himself.

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: rpgmasterjayo

SPOILERS



This thread is anime only, moron. Read the rules (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=51&threadid=13425&enterthrea d=y). If you put another spolier on I will show you "MY bankai" and you will be running the other way.

[heero]

I think Ichigo's Bankai is Zangetsu (the old guy in glasses)..lol just a thought.

[ChaosK]

uhh yeah if you dont read manga you should stay away from here for now because theres a mega idiotic spoiler by that guy.

[Phoenix20578]

This fucking prick newb......

Back on topic:



Originally posted by: heero
I think Ichigo's Bankai is Zangetsu (the old guy in glasses)..lol just a thought.

God I hope not. I hated it with the 12th division captain, and I'll hate it with any other Captain's Bankai.

[Assertn]

so.......what exactly is ichigo's shikai......?

[Phoenix20578]

Regular
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4876/shikai4xa.jpg
Shi-Kai
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/746/shikai10vi.jpg
Ban-Kai
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4589/untitled1copy1mb.jpg
I won't spoil this for the non-manga people.

[ChaosK]

way to go pheonix, but the mod handled it and i'm guessing any further talk about it woudl become flamming or something of the sort.

your shi-kai picutre is right because yoruichi said that his zampukon was always in released form.

[Munsu]

Phoenix... The first sword might be a regular form...

But that regular form is not the regular form of the second sword... the two are different... and since the second one is always in it's released form, we've never seen it in its regular form...

[Phoenix20578]

Ummmmmm.....no.

This is Ichigo's sword right before it he learned Zangetsu's name and it transformed:
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9418/ichigowbrokensword5yr.jpg
and that sword used to be this one, when it wasn't broken:
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4876/shikai4xa.jpg
If you still think i'm wrong, rewatch the end of 19, and the begining of 20
If i'm still wrong, I just don't care anymore....

[Munsu]

well, it can be argued both ways... hard to say...

Some can argue that the first sword was merely a manifastation of Rukia's power, and that the second one was brought in by Ichigo's own shinigami's powers...

And others can argue that it has always been the same zanpakutou...

There's enough evidence to support both versions... I preffer the first one... For one thing... how come did the cover (or however it is called) from the first sword disappeared when the new sword came out...

And also, how come the handle also disappeared once the new sword came out? From all the shikais we have seen, I don't remember seeing any of those two change...

[Knives122]

you mean the sheath? well one could say that the wrapping around the sword became the new sheath when the sword was released.

[Munsu]

Yeah... hence it was either changed or destroyed... and up till now, i haven't seen that happen to any soul slayer when they go shikai

[XanBcoo]

That just means that Ichigo's is unique.

Byakuya's turns into sakura petals.
Hinamori's shoots an energy blast.
Renji's grows...
etc etc.
Ichigo's loses it's crossguard and sheath and becomes bigger.

I'm with Pheonix on this one. The simplest explaination is that Zangetsu is the released form (shikai) of the first sword.

Whatever you beleive Budweineken, the sword we saw transform into it's shikai once Ichigo learned Zangetsu's name had a crossguard and a sheath. So the loss of these is not the issue. It just comes down to whether you think that sword was the one he had from episode 1 or not.

I think it is.

[ChaosK]

i also think it is because ichigo pulled it out of the box, zangetsu said (thats me) and he was talking about how he was broken before (so he's the same zampukon from before)

[Masamune]

Originally posted by: Budweineken

And also, how come the handle also disappeared once the new sword came out? From all the shikais we have seen, I don't remember seeing any of those two change...

kisuke's servant said something about that when ichigo first got the sword.

"That sword is not fully complete in that form" I believe it was something like that

[Splash!]

the fact that ichigo had to call out zangetsu's name in order to release it suggests it is the shikai form. And i also think we will never actually get to see ichigo's soul slayer in its unreleased form