phase 43 discussion

[john_doe_107]

can't resist this..
http://dat.2chan.net/18/src/1123925360026.jpg
http://dat.2chan.net/18/src/1123924971884.jpg
http://dat.2chan.net/18/src/1123924203307.jpg
http://dat.2chan.net/18/src/1123923928735.jpg
i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif
peace
oh yeah..
spoiler alert:
haha... (http://dat.2chan.net/18/src/1123926097122.jpg)

[Phoenix20578]

WTF! Yzak! Yeah!

Btw, is the raw out already?

[aznimperialx]

lol the spioler is funny

[Terracosmo]

YZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAA....

*BOOM*

.............K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: Fuck Hilda, Jule-sama is comin' back to the avatar corner
*begs forgiveness to the higher Yzak spirits for ever changing avatar in the first place*

[alukard]

I thought the link was about Yzak. Turns out its just someone who has been begging for it. Wish he could have a change in character and develope more. Those better just be a very well editted pics. Is that Yzak going berserked? Its obvious its not but he expression seem tensed and his right eye is all diluted (Kira did after all shove a knife in the little man's eye.)

[Terracosmo]

Nah, Yzak's just pissed as usual. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

If that spoiler really is truth, then it's unexpected, because that character has become unnecessary at this point anyway.

[muyg]

Raw is out . . .

http://tracker.danomac.org/tor...24fps_VBR).avi.torrent (http://tracker.danomac.org/torrents/Mobile_Suit_Gundam_Seed_Destiny_ep_43_Raw_(x264_64 0x480_24fps_VBR).avi.torrent)

[Terracosmo]

Thanks mate i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[PSJ]

Oh fuck *starts downloading*

[Guardian_2000]

Thats one thing I dislike. Since its not Saiyman not many people are downloading. I managed to get to 78% downloaded but then it got real slow.

[RedX1z]

can someone explain who that woman is standing next to yzak and dearka? we've seen her since ending 1 and in 1 episode, but they didn't really explain who she was or maybe i just missed her somewhere? and if they explain it in the episode, forgive me, but still downloading at the moment..

[muyg]

OMG . . . . need translation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By far the best episode yet, alot of action

only one word can describe it . . . ownage (by orb)

double ownage by Lacus (don't know if this is possible, but she did f@@k Gil over good . . . omg the look on his face)
More Mwu clues . . .
woohoo athrun went seed . . . .
Yona's death . . .

This summary is based on what I saw in the episode, I am not responsible for errors or epileptic seizures due to my decriptions of this episode . . .

Destiny and Legend are double teaming Freedom we see Athrun launch without permission. Anyways the DOM troops are having their way with the ZAFT forces. Archangel and Minerva are duking it out when Neo's Skygrapser detroys Mineriva's canons but gets damaged in the process, he proceeds to do an emergency landing on the Archangel, and has a flash back to the Alaska episode in GS. Legending shooting multiple lasers with his DRAGOON system. Kira and Rey are still duking it out and Kira notices the Legend resembles Providence. Shinn tries his "shining finger attack" and Kira justs kicks him to the side. Shinn and Rey get Kira on the defensive and leaves Shinn with a clean shot to the back of Freedom. Just when he is about to shoot, out of no where comes Justice to attack Destiny. Athrun then tells Shinn to stop and while talking to Shinn Rey decides to go and intrude. . Athrun proceeds to keep Shinn occupied, while Kira deals with Rey. We see how Yona dies, trying to escape a ZAFT MS crashes on top of him (very fitting, lame way to die for a lame man). Back to Shinns battle with Athrun, Shinn breaks out his boomerangs and tosses them at Athrun , who inturn blocks defelcts one with his beam sword and kicks another with his new beam leg. Rey gets all pissed and attacks Freedom. Back to the Minerva battle, Archangel decends and submerges into the water and then shoots at Minerva from below (kind of unfair). Djibri (spelling) decides to leave ORB with the rest of Saraans. Archangel then proceeds to own the ZAFT naval fleet, blowing up ships from below.Shinn is getting pissed and goes SEED, knocks Justice back and goes on the attack, Athrun then proceeds to go SEED (woohoo) and cuts off Destiny's arm. Shinn is in a state of shock. At the same time the AA (getting lazy typing it all out) blows up all the submerged ZAFT vessels. We then see Djibri fly off in the Saraan's shuttle, Minerva counters by sending Impulse to attack it but it fails. Afterwards Minerva decides to retreat. Athrun passes out and is caught by Kira and they land on the AA. Athrun is still suffering from his injuries as we can see blood coming from his bandages. Gil talks to Minerva's captain and she informs him about the AA, Freedom and Justice. We then see a dialogue between Neo and Murre and tey end up hugging. Athrun is recovering in bed when Kira and Lacus arrive, they all watch Cagilli's speech, when it is interrupted by Mia (Meer?). Then Kira flies Lacus to Cagilli's place and interrupts Mia's broadcast (bitch slap baby), and everybody seems shocked, especially Gil (he wonders why she is in ORB), and that's where it ends.

My question is if they (ORB) could interupt the broadcast why didn't they do so earlier to get it back? Probably answering my own question, but it is possible that they were waiting to the chance to show that there were two Lacus . . .

[MeroTZ]

I need a summary. Now.

God, I hate work.

[Terracosmo]

That was an awesome episode, I particularly enjoyed the battle in the beginning, the music playing there reminded me of the reoccuring theme played towards the end of Seed. Also, the preview for next ep (FINALLY YZAK) reminded me on how great Honoo no Tobira is. Sexy song. Also, Yzak's white gouf is gonna use stock footage! (why didn't he just get to keep the zaku? at least that one was characteristic...)

Great overall. Bye bye Jona ;D

On another note, my hatred for Lacus has now reached the point where I want to hit her everytime I see her on screen (especially during the last shot of the episode where she just stood there and stared, god, fucking bitch die!!!). Yet I find Meer to be incredibly hot... hmm, strange. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Souryusen]

Good ep.

Hot SHIT, Athrun cock-slapped Shinn. Quality.

[john_doe_107]

@MeroTZ.. animesuki has a summary.

[Terracosmo]

By the way, can't help but feel a little sorry for Jona.
Sure, he was an ass, but he was at the same time a helpless wimp. Just like a baby. He was met with nothing but shit in the series. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif
Ah well, guess getting squished is a fitting end for him.

[aznroyale]

SaiyaMan is out (https://http://bt.saiyaman.info/?search=gundam+seed+destiny&cat=0)

[Hybridi]

Pure, pure awesomeness.

Ramius x Fraga scene got some tears in my eyes, that's some touching shit.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

I'm back from school and I'm starting the download YAY i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif.

[Sano]

Looks promising, I'll wait for the subbed ver.

[aznimperialx]

yea me too considering i have to much to download alreadly i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: muyg

woohoo athrun went seed . . . .

OMFG are you serious???? *quickly turns off download for g gundam and turns on phase 43 download*

[Nyro]

Arthrun went seed.


I have to change my pants now.

[SorC]

Well the action was awesome. Now I gotta wait for the sub to get the dialogue. i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif It's gonna take way too long damnit.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Even Athrun all banged up and bloody can win against shinn. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Phase 43 was good, but not as good as 42. Cant wait to see Phase 44.

[Strike Freedom]

Episode 43 --- FREAKIN AWESOME!!!

It is by far my favorite episode in GSD. Shinn gets spanked by Athuran, ABOUT FREAKING TIME! Athuran goes SEED and puts that spoiled brat in his place. That goes to show you that Athuran is a better pilot than Shinn, and Kira would kick his ASS if Kira's no kill policy was not in place (since Kira is probably a bit better than Athuran). No dragoons, oh well. I loved Shinn's face after Justice screwed up Destiny. Finally, RIP Yuna (Jona). AMEN....

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
On another note, my hatred for Lacus has now reached the point where I want to hit her everytime I see her on screen (especially during the last shot of the episode where she just stood there and stared, god, fucking bitch die!!!). Yet I find Meer to be incredibly hot... hmm, strange.

TAKE IT BACK!!!

[Terracosmo]

No, Meer IS hot!

Edit: Oh you meant Lacus? Nah, she better burn in hell and get raped nonstop by tentacles formed as tridents.

Mmmmm.... paaaaain ^_^

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
Episode 43 --- FREAKIN AWESOME!!!

It is by far my favorite episode in GSD. Shinn gets spanked by Athuran, ABOUT FREAKING TIME! Athuran goes SEED and puts that spoiled brat in his place. That goes to show you that Athuran is a better pilot than Shinn, and Kira would kick his ASS if Kira's no kill policy was not in place (since Kira is probably a bit better than Athuran). No dragoons, oh well. I loved Shinn's face after Justice screwed up Destiny. Finally, RIP Yuna (Jona). AMEN....


that does not mean kira can kick shins ass because athrun wasnt trying to kill shin either. i bet u he could have sliced the cockpit, but instead he specifically hit the hand. kira as we know always goes for the hands, arms, legs etc. so athurn was fighting shin no kill policy and so was kira. also take into consideration that athurn was like bad shape throught the entire fight.

[Terracosmo]

*Shinn slashes Kira's cockpit*

People: OMFG CHEATING !!!!! KIRA WOULD HAVE WON THAT SHIT IF *insert a million stupid reasons here*

*Shinn slashes Athrun's cockpit*

People: OMFG CHEATING!!111 ATHRUN HAD A GOUF OMFG WHO GIVES A SHIT THAT HE HAS MOER EXPERICNE NAFNSAFNA SHINN SUXX!!!!!

*Athrun & Kira barely touches the Destiny gundam*

People: ROFL SHINN IS PWND GET THAT YOU STUPID CHARACTER DAMN YOU FOR HAVING DEPTH!!! WE DEMAND KIRA, ATHRUN, BIG GUNS AND FUCKING STUPID PHILOSOPHY WHICH DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!11 CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IS OVERRATEDDDD!!!!!!!!!111


---

I just summarized 95% of the Seed fans. Feel your own suckage.

[drunkenmaster]

i think losing an arm is more than barely touched ;p and also i dont demand kira, i oly demand athurn. i dont like big guns, i only like big swords. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif shin is pretty lame cuz he likes stellar to death, then like 2 days later is making out with luna. that is fucking reatarded. atleast athurn has the good sense to resist meers secductions.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
i think losing an arm is more than barely touched ;p

You get the point.



shin is pretty lame cuz he likes stellar to death, then like 2 days later is making out with luna. that is fucking reatarded. .

Ever heard of emotional comfort?

[drunkenmaster]

sounds more like physical comfort to me ;p

[romancing_xaga]

so long to download, I cant wait to download this..hehe

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
sounds more like physical comfort to me ;p

What I'm trying to say is that when you're heartbroken/extremely sad or whatever Shinn was, the gentle embrace from someone who understands him is just what he needs. Same with Luna who had just endured that her sister died (or so she thought). This is much like what Kira did in Seed (you know back when he had a personality), he had sex with Fllay while not having feelings as a result of all the stress and whatnot. Then again both of these can be seen as physical comfort, but at least the prior in particular, I believe, had some emotions to back it up. Not necessarily romantic ones, though.

[MeroTZ]

What a fun episode. Athrun totally owns Shinn (he did... .Shinn came strait at him, Athrun dodged and took Destiny's arm and Shinn didn't know wtf), Kira duels Legend, and the Archangel takes out most of ZAFT's fleet on its own, like it was built to do.

I think if we saw Dulindal's chessboard right now, Lacus would have just put him in check. Lacus rules!

And is it my imagination, or did it seem from the preview that Yzak may be getting his own episode?

[Terracosmo]

One can always hope, but I'm guessing it's more of a "since we've ignored the best Seed character for damn well 40 eps - here's some extra preview footage!".

Either that or he's gonna die.

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
One can always hope, but I'm guessing it's more of a "since we've ignored the best Seed character for damn well 40 eps - here's some extra preview footage!".

Either that or he's gonna die.

You say that, and I keep trying to deny it, but for some reason my mind insists that Yzak is screwed.

[Terracosmo]

Well, it's tough as the resident Yzak fanboy to say this, but it might be for the best if he dies. Since there's prolly not gonna be a season 3, whatever happens at this point doesn't really matter. + it will justify the fact that he hasn't been in the last openings. Also, if he goes out with a bang he'll be remembered better. Which will probably sell more model kits.

[drunkenmaster]

if he goes out with a bang he better put up a good fight and then die with style. u cant sell model kits without style!

[Terracosmo]

I know, I know! Let's have him lose to Kira! (he's never done that before!)
And then... ehh... Rey can come from behind and slice him in half! When trying to attack Kira!

I hate Fukuda.

[twh]

Good episode and all, but was I the only one that was having problems watching it? It wouldn't work on Real player, WMP, or Quick time. There's either something wrong my my set of codecs or there's something wrong with the file.

[Terracosmo]

I had problems too. I had to go and download VLC player in the end.

[muyg]

It's probably because the it was encoded with H.264 format . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264
I would suggest that you either check for updated codecs or as Terra did use VLC or download a different raw that uses a different encoding.

The Matroska pack includes support for H.264
http://packs.matroska.org/

Hope that helps.

[shiro03]

woooo just finish watching the raw.... had some problems too.Finally athrun is showing wat he really is to shinn,rey is forever so gay.poor athrun he is pretty exhausted from the fight due to his injuries,so sad...

as for neo... well its pretty obvious he is mwu.

i felt the interesting part is mineva vs archangel with archangel going underwater,taking out alot of zafts troops.

i wonder where yona is running to, i maybe wrong here maybe he is running to his shuttle to get away with djibril.too bad he(yona) got crush.

[Curium]

First off, I am fully aware that I've already lost this war, but I have given a specific reason that I would admit Neo might be Mwu, and that has NOT been met, so Neo is not Mwu!!!!

We had another MSV appearance. At 3:54 (in the saiyaman RAW) we see the UWMF/S-1 GINN WASP Type (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-msv/uwmfs-1.htm)

I really don't know Japanese other then a few words I've figured out with subbed anime, but it sounded like Dullindal said something like "bakana" after the real Lacus appeared. If I understand correctly he is calling her a fool. There are a lot of names I could think to call someone that is screwing with very carefully laid out plans, but fool isn't one of them. Especially if that person has been against them from the beginning. It's as if he thinks Lacus is making a mistake by supporting Orb.

I liked the move by the Archangel, the Minerva had the advantage since it had gotten behind the AA, so it dove underwater and took out all the grunt ships. This something I've seen a lot in games, you can either focus on the big target or focus on wiping out the small easy stuff first. The small easy stuff may not be as strong, but with their shear numbers they eventually add up too a lot of damage over time.

Oh, and what happened to Jona, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.

[twh]

Actually, in the Japanese language, 'Bakana' can also mean 'impossible!'. Which, in the end, would make more sense since ol' Gil thought that Lacus was gone.

[Terracosmo]

Yeah, you don't use "bakana" when you call people idiots. Though it's a common mistake to make, it's as twh says, he was saying "impossible".

[Curium]

Originally posted by: twh
Actually, in the Japanese language, 'Bakana' can also mean 'impossible!'. Which, in the end, would make more sense since ol' Gil thought that Lacus was gone.

Thanks. Like I said, my Japanese knowledge is limited to what I've figured out. I know "Baka" is fool or idiot, and just assumed. Again, thanks for correcting me.

[death-wing]

is it me, or do lacas and kira seem to be destined to be together? for one, they for some reason always seem to be right about their actions, and two, who else could give people that suprprised WHAT THE FUCK expression whenever they apear (kira whenever he apears in the midle of a fight, when people always go WHAT?!?!?! ITS FREEDOM) and the REAL lacas when she apears, and even the chairman goes "grrrrrrr" lol the last few seconds were kickass, and i nvr get sick of that WTF expression that everyone always gives.

[Terracosmo]

You forgot to mention that they both suck.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
You forgot to mention that they both suck.

AMEN!

[alukard]

Fukuda already had Stellar sliced Heine from behind but of course it wouldnt be too hard to reedit used animations and put Shinn in Heine's place and have Legend do that scene. Only problem is that Legend doesnt have any beam swords so he cant slice Destiny in half. He can still skewer Shinn. Bring it on. Where's tthe ketchup, lemon grass, sugar, pepper, and coal?



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/00/SW3vader.png/180px-SW3vader.png

Aftermath?

[Curium]

Originally posted by: alukard
Fukuda already had Stellar sliced Heine from behind but of course it wouldnt be too hard to reedit used animations and put Shinn in Heine's place and have Legend do that scene. Only problem is that Legend doesnt have any beam swords so he cant slice Destiny in half. He can still skewer Shinn. Bring it on. Where's tthe ketchup, lemon grass, sugar, pepper, and coal?


I believe it was called something else, but Legend does have a beam sword type weapon. He used i in todays episode.

EDIT: I find it ironic that Athrun kept getting between Shinn and Kira trying to stop Shinn. He did the exact same thing with the names reversed when Savior got destroyed.

[Barumonk]

Legend has a trident I think, similar to Blast Impulse/Abyss.

The chairman said something like "Impossible! Why is she in ORB?", or something, I think. ^^;; He either didn't expect her to be alive, or didn't expect her to side with ORB. I'm probably wrong though. >.> Anyway, with the way Kira and Lacus were exchanging glances this episode, you would think that they had planned this out ahead of time and knew they were about to put the fake Lacus in "check," so to speak. I don't think the Chairman is indanger yet, as he can still claim that he was manipulated with the rest of the world if Meer is proven a fake. *silently realizes to himself that the chairman can technically use Meer as the scapegoat for 99% of everything that Lacus can claim is his fault, which would void most of what Lacus probably has to say except that she is indeed 'Lacus Clyne'*

[Splash!]

This episode seems so irresistable. Cant wait for Hiro to bring out the sub. Seems like a great deal happened. Yzaks back!! Better late than never. Athrun finally redeems himself in my eyes. I stand corrected on him being useless trash

[Sano]

Subbed ver. not out yet? Crap, i'm starting to get impatient...

[alukard]

I wish i had learned Japanese a little sooner when there's still grey matter left for it. I give props to the fan subbers (sp) who take their time to do substitution for us, the coders who wrote the programs that put in text through thousands of seconds of streaming video, and especially those that live in Japan who gave up their time to get up early each morning to turn on their Dvd burner and record these great tv shows, all for free.

Patiently waiting for translation as well.

[Cion]

Hiro is out!

http://bt.nanashi-fansubs.com:...d8117231c707d2.torrent (http://bt.nanashi-fansubs.com:2710/torrents/c96406d5b0326c676b13c8fe34d8117231c707d2.torrent)

[Sano]

Thanks for the notice!

[chi master]

this is going to be a good episode..., probably extend the series to 50++

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

can someone tell me how to make GIFs? i want to make one with athrun going seed mode

[Chris_Xion]

Another awesome episode,the song for the preview changed but still good.That was total ownage by Athrun,him going into SEED mode is more powerful than Shinn.And finally,Lacus can put Meer in her place!Yzak's team is going to lead or take part in the Moon battle,and looks like Djibril's Requiem is going to put ZAFT ina world of hurt.
Dullindal's plan is unravelling,no wonder he needed to personally get a Gundam and lead his troops....hehe

[alukard]

Just watched the raw. The Gouf coming straight out of the sky and landing like that seem like moments straight from Final Destination. Although that movie made no sense its scary as hell. I think the Orb soldiers were telling him saying something like "Watch out! Don't look up!"

[oyabun]

@athrunownzall, try using phothoshop to covert your current file to a gif.. i think it will work. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif


we get to see yzak again atlast, there are gonna be a lot of revelation next episode, it seems djibril has a new genesis type of weapon, and oh btw, athrun owned shin at last. he had redeem himself form shiin.. you're next rey!!

[Millenium-Boyz]

WTF!!! hiro nanashi tracker doesnt work, does anyone have any other tracker or links

[Marcis]

Can i offer you all a little exercise in mathematics?
Please count how much minutes of new animation is in this episode i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
Minus opening, minus ending, minus commercial break animation, minus next ep preview, minus SEED and previous Destiny eps flashbacks, minus stock animation of Impulse docking, Destiny and Legend launching...
I would say about 12 minutes, only HALF episode is new!

[death-wing]

]Here (http://www.baka-updates.com/search.php?keyword=Gundam%20Seed%20Destiny&type=ti tle) is the link, it usually has all the fansubs when they come out in case ur picky about which group u get from

[Millenium-Boyz]

fuckin good episode
key points
1. Arthrun first seed
2. shin got his hands cut off for ... hmmmm probably the 3rd time >.< twice by freedom when he was in impulse
3. Lacus first public appearance
4. Kira is starting to be a bit "sarcastic"
5. Meer bOOBS ARE FAKE (she got a boob job)
6. Kira and Lacus is starting to get intimate
7. Shin is scared (he is 90 percent on the way to mental break down)
8. Chairman said "Impossible"
9. TV station hijacking wars( Meer hijack Cagali, Lacus Hijack Meer)
10. Strike freedom is Still cool
OMG OMG OMG OMG
Next episode :
Phase - 44
Two lacuses ( one with boob job, one with standard boobs) Who Will Win?
Meer probably will win if there is a gundam war between those two because she is not virgin anymore, so she doesnt need to worry about ripping her virginity when she was about to press the pedal of the thruster.

[Cion]

Interesting i wonder how the two Lacus will fall out. I wouldn't be suprised if the chairman kills her when she is of no more use, so he can use her death for his purpose. After all a Pawn is meant to be sacrifaced.
I like that the usual now boring Shinn vs Kira changed to Shinn vs Athrun and that the two "newtypes" fought for once. We got some more info about Mwu/Neo but they still haven't explained how he survived by who and why.

@Terra: why does Lacus disgust you so much, i can understand Kira even if i don't agree with it.
She is becoming like how she was in the end of seed and what is so bad with that?

[NeoBear]

man this is such a great thing im just so freking happy this shit is relly starting to heat up, i mean did you see the part wear shinn and athrun exchanged blows and there was like a pause and then shinns shit kinda got choped off, the look on shinns face oh man priceless, just like when two ninjas run buy and theres a slash and then one drops dead lol, is anybody keeping count of how many of them big ass swords shinn has lost. considering that hes rideing around in the damned title gundam off the show he better stop getting his shit beat down.

and i dont know if neo is mew or if mew is neo or if neo is a clone of some left over mew skeet ect ect, but when he was talking to homegirl on the dock that was some of the smoothest shit i have ever heard, she was creaming her jeans man i think i even got a little wet.

man its kinda sad that this is coming to an end it seems like all the self doubting is over and everyone is getting all fired up and to think soon i wont be abel to see them kicking ass and talking shit sigh =/

oh and jona died too JUST LIKE A STANKEY BITCH!!!! WTFPWNED!!!!

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Marcis
Can i offer you all a little exercise in mathematics?
Please count how much minutes of new animation is in this episode
Minus opening, minus ending, minus commercial break animation, minus next ep preview, minus SEED and previous Destiny eps flashbacks, minus stock animation of Impulse docking, Destiny and Legend launching...
I would say about 12 minutes, only HALF episode is new!

Quoted for truth.

[Enderz]

Downloading it now cant wait to see it

[Terracosmo]

wtf mine finished in 15 minutes, that's amazing... I can't believe this :S

[xat]

Originally posted by: Marcis
Can i offer you all a little exercise in mathematics?
Please count how much minutes of new animation is in this episode
Minus opening, minus ending, minus commercial break animation, minus next ep preview, minus SEED and previous Destiny eps flashbacks, minus stock animation of Impulse docking, Destiny and Legend launching...
I would say about 12 minutes, only HALF episode is new!


Please. If you're going to subtract all of that then do note that the actual episode minus all of that would be about 18 minutes long. As for reused scenes, I'd guess around 4:35 worth (1 minute leeway since I missed a few very short scenes). That's around 75% worth of new animation. 18 minutes of the 24 within the video are the actual episode. Do consider that.

[Terracosmo]

xat is wrong, in fact the currect number is 72.53%. I have personally calculated it all.

[MrTicTac]

who cares *hurray* for GSD animation eye candy


I just loved everyones reaction when real lacus came in,, everyones like huh,,, heh.. @__@ and chairman must be thinkin ohhh shit


I sorta wanted more of a reaction of the minerva crew in general about Athrun returning,, looked like only shinn, rey and gladys knew

and i wanna see meyrin bitch slap luna i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif for hell of it

[aznimperialx]

great esp

[nhoc_kun]

Man... I luv this screenshot
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/nhoc_kun/screenshot/capture.jpg

[MrTicTac]

pfftt who closed shinn hater's topic ?

isnt posting crap about shinn the purpose? (even though most posts were crap, it was still logical regarding how shinn is)


well add another one for shinn refusing to listen and think again, he's prolly gonna deny that real lacus

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
*Shinn slashes Kira's cockpit*

People: OMFG CHEATING !!!!! KIRA WOULD HAVE WON THAT SHIT IF *insert a million stupid reasons here*

*Shinn slashes Athrun's cockpit*

People: OMFG CHEATING!!111 ATHRUN HAD A GOUF OMFG WHO GIVES A SHIT THAT HE HAS MOER EXPERICNE NAFNSAFNA SHINN SUXX!!!!!

*Athrun & Kira barely touches the Destiny gundam*

People: ROFL SHINN IS PWND GET THAT YOU STUPID CHARACTER DAMN YOU FOR HAVING DEPTH!!! WE DEMAND KIRA, ATHRUN, BIG GUNS AND FUCKING STUPID PHILOSOPHY WHICH DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!11 CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IS OVERRATEDDDD!!!!!!!!!111


---

I just summarized 95% of the Seed fans. Feel your own suckage.i couldn't help but laugh when i read this, it's just so true

anyways, watched the raw and am waiting for Haro to release (i just hope it comes out sooner then last week)
but from what i think i understand from this episode it's going to clear up some things, Athrun's speech/monologue left Shinn baffled for a moment, while Lacus slapped Dullindal in the face (so to speak)
and Neo just has to say it out loud that he is Mwu and then i'll believe it, the flashback pretty much made it clear even to a stubborn disbeliever like myself
from now on things will start to heat and speed up, pretty much the same like with Seed

but Terra, i do find it odd that you like Meer but not Lacus, since there's not that much difference i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Phoenix20578]

Meer seems like a demented hore, so I don't see why anyone likes her.

[MrTicTac]

"*Athrun & Kira barely touches the Destiny gundam*"


Kira wasnt fighting destiny, that was impulse, and it lost limbs and shit and had to ask meyrin for the other equips, and after it defeated freedom, it came back in pieces and beyond repair but yea in the end shinn won no doubt

bout athrun yea he didnt do crap to destiny while on a gouf, but then again shinn didnt finish him

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: MrTicTac
"*Athrun & Kira barely touches the Destiny gundam*"


Kira wasnt fighting destiny, that was impulse, and it lost limbs and shit and had to ask meyrin for the other equips, and after it defeated freedom, it came back in pieces and beyond repair but yea in the end shinn won no doubt

bout athrun yea he didnt do crap to destiny while on a gouf, but then again shinn didnt finish himi think it's safe to assume he was talking about the latest episode don't you think?

[xat]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
xat is wrong, in fact the currect number is 72.53%. I have personally calculated it all.

Well I did say around 75% -- either way, it's certainly more than 50%. ^_~

[Terracosmo]

@Motteh: I think the sole reason I prefer Meer is the adventage her physical appearance has over Lacus. And she also wields the clothing to perfectly exploit it.
Oh and she doesn't get much screentime either. Just enough for me to drool. Also I don't think Meer & Lacus are all that similar, at least not on the personal plane.
Meer is a lot more down to earth (unless counting the fact that she's trying to be someone else) while Lacus has that "I am high and mighty, important, don't touch me you filthy commoner" thing going on.

I hate Lacus

[PSJ]

Drop the discussion about Shinn defeating both Athrun and Kira. He did it and should get all the credit. Gotta be tough to see both Freedom and Athrun to come back from death in such a short while though.

The episode was awesome. Now its pertty clear that Neo is Mwu eh? After that flashback you can't really think otherwise, i will wait for the subbed version to hear what he said in his speech, i couldn't make out him saying "Mwu" though.

Athrun fighting seemed pretty stupid in my opinion, he could barely walk yet he fought evenly with Shinn. To me that is wierd as you need to be in top shape to pilot a suit that good yet he does it when he can barely stand or talk. It was still kickass though since Justice is one of the coolest Gundams ever.

Lacus showing herself was pretty good, i wonder what Dullindal will do now he was like "wtf? I never suspected this" when she showed up.

It looks like Destiny takes of right here great to have eps like this in the end.

[Motteh]

@Terra: you have all the right to hate Lacus, i don't assault you on that
personally i don't prefer either, i'd go with Lunamaria myself i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif
and it's true that Meer doesn't get that much screentime, even Fllay (whom almost everyone hates)
got much more screentime up untill now, and it wasn't that much more significant what she did

@PSJ: i liked the difference in expression on Dullindal's face when you see Cagalli holding her speech and then when the Lacus takes over from Meer
and about Neo/Mwu, i'm stubborn till the end and want him to say he's Mwu before i'll admit it
but you're right, the flashback leaves very little (if not not any at all) room for something else
that summed up with his other "Mwu-like characteristics", like "i am the man who makes the impossible possible"
and a less stubborn soab would admit he is him

btw: like your sig

[Psyke]

I love Lacus. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

For the way she talks and her clothes. Sure Meer is sexier, but she's still a psychotic bimbo.

Anyway great episode. Shinn's going to have a mental crisis soon, and starting to feel the lack of confidence. After all, two pilots survived a sword to the cock pit type of explosion. Athrun's finally back to his old self, and Cagali's taking control of ORB again. Can't wait for the next episode and I hope they don't rush things like back in Seed.

Edit: Yeah just wanted to add that the music that played during the Kira vs Rey and Shinn fight was fantastic.

[Freki]

If Dullindal didn't anticipate this he is not as brilliant a mastermind as I have believed him to be. if he was behind Lacus assassination he musta figured something went wrong when no one reterned from killing her, and if he wasn't then he had no reason to doubt she was alive. A logical conclusion would be she is still alive in either case and he would have to deal with her eventually, I mean he had to expect the other sides Queen to eventually make a move on his chessboard. In the hopes that he is a final bad guy worthy of putting all the events of destiny in motion I am hoping thathe does have some plan already set up for this situation.

While the odds are that Mwu is Neo I refuse to accept it until I get some kind of damn explanation for how he survived in space, until that day I invite the writers to go fuck themselves.

[Deblas]

Hiro's sub is out.

http://bt.nanashi-fansubs.com:...d8117231c707d2.torrent (http://bt.nanashi-fansubs.com:2710/torrents/c96406d5b0326c676b13c8fe34d8117231c707d2.torrent)

[Motteh]

@Freki: the last thing he knew was that she was in space, he did not foresee her (early) return to Earth/Orb
that doesn't mean he's not a brilliant mastermind in any way, since even the most well thought out plan to, let's say, water your garden could theoretically be undermined by a tornado (to be extreme, and in truth it's not a very good example but i hope you get my point)

[Sano]

I liked how Shinn was like "WTF?!" when he saw Athuran. Athuran being severly injured after the MS battle was good, it served as a reminder that the "Super Pilots" are still mortal people. Neo is obviously having flashbacks as Mwu, and is starting to express some symptons as being Mwu, but his memory hasn't fully been regained yet, so he's still Neo for the time being. Lacus' intervention at the very end was funny, becuase the Chairman that always has everything planned out was taken out by surprise. I found it funny when he was taken in surprise and said, "Why is she in orb?!" Also did anyone notice that Rey was angrier than he ever has been in the series when he was fighting Freedom and later when Athuran showed up in Justice?

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: Sano
Also did anyone notice that Rey was angrier than he ever has been in the series when he was fighting Freedom and later when Athuran showed up in Justice?

Well yeah. They're supposed to be dead and out of the way of Gil. He's such a fangirl.

[xat]

What I like is that Kira is now not the only one who can go SEED seemingly at will/when the circumstances call for it.

[Freki]

I really find it hard to believe that he would not be prepared for this, he seems to have thought about pretty much everything up to this point and given the fact that the 2 sided together during the last war her eventually showing up again in ORB isn't that surprising. Also she coulda interrupted Meer from anywhere prolly, so where she was and whether it was an early return there doesn't matter. If she had been in space they woulda had her interrupting from space and Dullindal being surprised. The more surprising thing to me is that Lacus kept her mouth shut for this long, not that she finally said something. Besides I don't mean that he had to know that this second she would appear but he has to been expecting it for awhile.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: Sano
Also did anyone notice that Rey was angrier than he ever has been in the series when he was fighting Freedom and later when Athuran showed up in Justice?

Well yeah. They're supposed to be dead and out of the way of Gil. He's such a fangirl.

Also, Freedom caused the death of Rau.

---

I saw the ep with subs now and the dialogue between Ramius & Mwu was about what I thought it would be. It was a very generic conversation given the circumstances. You'll see what I mean. But yeah, I guess it was cool.

I also sincerily hope that we'll get less of these "last minute savings" now. I am so fucking tired of people showing up at the EXACT right moment all the time. That's a true sign of bad writing. Kira, Athrun and hell everybody just appears when it's the most fitting. *yawn* And to think that Kira would have been blown up by Shinn if Athrun didn't arrive when he did. And as people have said, he somehow fights like an ace even though he's half decapitated.

PLOT DEVICE FOR LIFE

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: Freki
I really find it hard to believe that he would not be prepared for this, he seems to have thought about pretty much everything up to this point and given the fact that the 2 sided together during the last war her eventually showing up again in ORB isn't that surprising. Also she coulda interrupted Meer from anywhere prolly, so where she was and whether it was an early return there doesn't matter. If she had been in space they woulda had her interrupting from space and Dullindal being surprised. The more surprising thing to me is that Lacus kept her mouth shut for this long, not that she finally said something. Besides I don't mean that he had to know that this second she would appear but he has to been expecting it for awhile.but if you put it that way i can put against it the theory that he might have suspected her interveining but that the thing that surprised him was that she was in Orb
but really, this can go on forever since you don't seem to get my point that no plan is failsafe
there are always things that go wrong or slightly different then you expected and thus rendering the latter part of your plan useless, i mean, what if Djibril would've surrendered instead of fled? what then i ask you?
there's no way of knowing that because it didn't happen that way and because up untill episode 43 everything seemed to go according to plan

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: xat
What I like is that Kira is now not the only one who can go SEED seemingly at will/when the circumstances call for it.

Both Kira and Athrun could do this in SEED already.

[Deblas]

Tracker for Hiro is kinda slow. So here!!!

Direct Download!! (http://www.chaos-black.com/gsd/[Hiro]_Gundam_SEED_Destiny_Phase_43_[0DC71D27].avi)

[Gangrel]

Well, seems like they forgot about Seed mode on Kira, because he couldn't win a fight against Rey that sure is weak compared to anyone else in Seed mode. Or maybe the all mighty Kira don't actually have the skills after all uh? Don't come with the it was 2x1 conversation, cause Athrun was handling Shinn.

But good episode, some nice action though I almost thought Shinn could be turned with all that speech of Athrun, I guess it wouln't be fun with just Legend for em to fight against. Seems like a hero can't be made alone he needs a villain =p

[Phoenix20578]

Originally posted by: PSJ


Originally posted by: xat
What I like is that Kira is now not the only one who can go SEED seemingly at will/when the circumstances call for it.

Both Kira and Athrun could do this in SEED already.


I think he means he's glad someone else can go into SEED mode by choice in destiny, because so far, no one else did. Shinn could only do it when he was enraged, and Athrun didn't do it yet in GSD.

[PSJ]

True but he said "Kira is now not the only one who can go SEED seemingly at will" key word being can, that was the reason i replied. If he would have wrote "Kira is now not the only one who does go SEED seemingly at will" i wouldn't have said a thing.

[Phoenix20578]

sorry, my mistake

[piasEnigma]

Originally posted by: Deblas
Tracker for Hiro is kinda slow. So here!!!

Direct Download!! (http://www.chaos-black.com/gsd/[Hiro]_Gundam_SEED_Destiny_Phase_43_[0DC71D27].avi)

I'm pretty sure that direct download is NOT working, It only downloads like 32k of the show and stops.

[xat]

The situation kind of left me in conflict in regards to Athrun, so I said both 'can' and 'seemingly' (as opposed to do/does). In this episode, it, at least to me, seemed slightly as though Athrun went seed under pressure; I'd like to think he did it with the same control as Kira has though, since the characteristics for that kind of seed activation were unlike, for lack of better example, Shinn's.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

FINALLY!!! AFTER 43 EPISODES ATHRUN MANAGES TO OWN SHINN!!! Its about damn time. You know since Kira was really TRYING to disable Shinn's Destiny I guess Athrun is at a higher level then Kira seeing as Athrun still was able to damage Destiny while injured. And that look on the Chairmans face when Lacus came onto the T.V. was priceless. This had to be one of the most promisings eps to date.

I hope that Yzak and Dearka will be SHOWN in the next episode DOING SOMETHING.

EDIT:Hey anybody wonder what happened to the so called "Destiny Plan"? Hmmmm...I do wonder indeed...

EDIT2: I just noticed this but it seems that Kira can't do anything without his music. I mean we come into this episode and since his music is gone he can't touch Shinn nor Rey. Just wanted to know if anyone else noticed.

[Mut]

Luna is fucking garbage. Her as a pilot is a complete a joke.

[drunkenmaster]

i mean where there is fighting theres like a band playing on a small boat. kira needs that for his energy from that band. but when justice came, the band was scared by its awsome sweetness and ran away. so then kira started sucking and athurn started kicking ass.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Luna is fucking garbage. Her as a pilot is a complete a joke.

lol, so true

Her aim was insanely bad

[Mut]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
FINALLY!!! AFTER 43 EPISODES ATHRUN MANAGES TO OWN SHINN!!! Its about damn time. You know since Kira was really TRYING to disable Shinn's Destiny I guess Athrun is at a higher level then Kira seeing as Athrun still was able to damage Destiny while injured. And that look on the Chairmans face when Lacus came onto the T.V. was priceless. This had to be one of the most promisings eps to date.

I hope that Yzak and Dearka will be SHOWN in the next episode DOING SOMETHING.

EDIT:Hey anybody wonder what happened to the so called "Destiny Plan"? Hmmmm...I do wonder indeed...

EDIT2: I just noticed this but it seems that Kira can't do anything without his music. I mean we come into this episode and since his music is gone he can't touch Shinn nor Rey. Just wanted to know if anyone else noticed.
Kira can never reach his full potential because he is forever a pussy. His passive ways will never let him go fully berserk like Shinn can at any moment (since Shinn is a nutbag).

[Marcis]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo


Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Luna is fucking garbage. Her as a pilot is a complete a joke.

lol, so true

Her aim was insanely bad
You never know... Djibril might be her daddy and she can't bring herself to kill him.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Marcis
You never know... Djibril might be her daddy and she can't bring herself to kill him.
Yeah, and Rey is Mwu's son.

[Barumonk]

SEED is activated through various different mindsets of the user. Determination is the one used by both Shinn and Athrun in this episode (as well as the one Kira uses regularly). Its also why Athrun wasn't able to use this SEED earlier in the series, as his thoughts were mostly just wandering about during most of the series. The only other one I can remember at the moment is the Protective/Defensive SEED, which appears as the 'seed' falling down, bouncing off the water and then bursting into a nova. Most people call this one the berserker seed though, since its usually more intense that the Determination type.

[Makenai]

Heres a direct link to the song that plays during the previews.

Direct link (http://ignited.iazn.net/fictionjunction.mp3)

[DeathscytheVII]

Originally posted by: Mut@chi


Originally posted by: Marcis
You never know... Djibril might be her daddy and she can't bring herself to kill him.
Yeah, and Rey is Mwu's son.

Rau was the clone of Mwu's dad right? So it's Mwu's uncle's son i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif whatever you call that. lol

I hate clones.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Meh, i don't like Lacus much either, there's something eerily dullindal-like about her and her philosophy for preaching peace while at the same time, endorsing the construction weapons of mass destruction (freedom, Justice) and as well as using paramilitary faction to jump into the middle of battles and massacre everyone (DOM rules i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif).


Propz to the ZAFT gouf who crushed Jona! Thats the one time i wouldn't mind being shot down if i were the pilot i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Barumonk
SEED is activated through various different mindsets of the user. Determination is the one used by both Shinn and Athrun in this episode (as well as the one Kira uses regularly). Its also why Athrun wasn't able to use this SEED earlier in the series, as his thoughts were mostly just wandering about during most of the series. The only other one I can remember at the moment is the Protective/Defensive SEED, which appears as the 'seed' falling down, bouncing off the water and then bursting into a nova. Most people call this one the berserker seed though, since its usually more intense that the Determination type.

Hmm i didnt know that. thanks for telling me. the only weird thing about that is that shin didnt use his berzerker seed when he stabbed athurn in the gouf, and he was like the most crazy hes ever been. must been an uber determination seed or sumthing.

[addict4speed]

Awsome episode, a few points i wanted to make:
1. it's pretty much set that Neo is Mwu. but because fukuda's a lazyass bitch, i doubt he's gonna actually explain how he survived though.
2. Everyone's talking about how shinn got owned by Athrun and Kira in this episode. but just to be fair, we have to give Shinn a benefit of a doubt. Afterall, we did give it to Kira and Athrun in previous episodes. People said Kira was distracted by AA's safety when Freedom was destroyed. You could argue the same thing for Shinn. It is conceivable that Athrun's speech could have impailed Shinn's fighting ability. Part of shinn's thoughts probably was on the things Athrun had said earlier; as a result, Shinn wasn't able to completely focus on defeating the opponent b4 him. Personally, i still think Kira and Athrun are a tier above Shinn and Rey, but you can't say Shinn got owned by Kira and Athrun in this episode, b/c he didn't . All Destiny lost was an arm. He still had plenty of fight left in him. If you remember in SEED, Kira was able to defeat Rau's Providence even though Freedom lost and arm and a leg. It is a definitely a fact that Shinn lost to Athrun in this battle, but he didn't get owned.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: addict4speed
Awsome episode, a few points i wanted to make:
1. it's pretty much set that Neo is Mwu. but because fukuda's a lazyass bitch, i doubt he's gonna actually explain how he survived though.
2. Everyone's talking about how shinn got owned by Athrun and Kira in this episode. but just to be fair, we have to give Shinn a benefit of a doubt. Afterall, we did give it to Kira and Athrun in previous episodes. People said Kira was distracted by AA's safety when Freedom was destroyed. You could argue the same thing for Shinn. It is conceivable that Athrun's speech could have impailed Shinn's fighting ability. Part of shinn's thoughts probably was on the things Athrun had said earlier; as a result, Shinn wasn't able to completely focus on defeating the opponent b4 him. Personally, i still think Kira and Athrun are a tier above Shinn and Rey, but you can't say Shinn got owned by Kira and Athrun in this episode, b/c he didn't . All Destiny lost was an arm. He still had plenty of fight left in him. If you remember in SEED, Kira was able to defeat Rau's Providence even though Freedom lost and arm and a leg. It is a definitely a fact that Shinn lost to Athrun in this battle, but he didn't get owned.

the only problem is that he lost his arm and his ONLY sword. not to mention he lost both boomerangs also. he cant even shield and attack anymore. all he has left is a giant gun, pretty much useless, a regular gun, even more useless, and his palm cannon (kira friggin kicked that prick away like nothing, if justice kicked shin, shin wouldnt be alive anymore) and with one armhe can only use one weapon at a time.and even if athurn impaled his ability, athun was friggin half dead with blood gushing out but he managed to beat shin. not to mention shin didnt even notice he was slashed until after his arm exploded, he was like wtf i just got noobed. also, if shin was so friggin impared by athurn's speech, he wouldnt be like screw u im going seed.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: xat
The situation kind of left me in conflict in regards to Athrun, so I said both 'can' and 'seemingly' (as opposed to do/does). In this episode, it, at least to me, seemed slightly as though Athrun went seed under pressure; I'd like to think he did it with the same control as Kira has though, since the characteristics for that kind of seed activation were unlike, for lack of better example, Shinn's.

Okey listen, Athrun has been able to go into SEED mode at will since the later half of SEED so that is what he did here to. Even if he did do it under pressure here he still knows how to do it at will.

As for Shinn "losing" in this ep i will be fair since i called his victory over Kira a victory cause of the circumstances i will call this the same. 2 people he thought he killed came back in a short time which will make you lose focus, add to that that he had to fight his former country which is bound to be hard whoever you are. There is also Athrun's speech which could have had some effect on him also.

Shinn "lost" because of the circumstances he has become a good pilot and now fights Kira evenly.

[drunkenmaster]

shin didnt "lose" he lost(without the quotes) take into consideration athurns condition(i mean he was losing blood like crazy) loss of blood affects his mental state and his physical state. also, shin would not have gone seed if he wasn't determined to take down athun therefore, he wouldnt really be distracted at the point he goes seed. or atleast the distractions dont matter anymore.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: addict4speed
Awsome episode, a few points i wanted to make:
1. it's pretty much set that Neo is Mwu. but because fukuda's a lazyass bitch, i doubt he's gonna actually explain how he survived though.well i personally wouldn't want an explanation for 3 reasons:
1: it would destroy the myth and aura of awe that surrounds him now
2: he should've stayed dead
3: he should've stayed dead

all Mwu lovers: get to it and flame me to the afterlife (if you want to waste time)

[PSJ]

Shinn goes SEED because of his emotions he cannot do it in a controlled state. Athrun being able to fight is just an idiotic plot device. The guy couldn't walk by himself no way in hell that he could pilot a suit like that.

[drunkenmaster]

lol remember if fukada doesnt show the chracter dying they dont die! thats fukadas number one rule.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Shinn goes SEED because of his emotions he cannot do it in a controlled state. Athrun being able to fight is just an idiotic plot device. The guy couldn't walk by himself no way in hell that he could pilot a suit like that.

but athurn still did, so it makes up for it.. that also means athurn must been piolting justice very poorly(didnt look like that). athurn was sweating the whole time, you could tell he was in great pain. also since he went seed u said he was outta control, what difference would that friggin make, nothing like matters to him now at that specific point. remember when he attacked athurn in the gouf? athruns previous speech did nothing, and he didnt even care about myren. in fact he was like im gonan take u down bastard! he had flashbacks in both senarios(fighting against athurn in gouf, then in justice).

srry double post i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

[PSJ]

Have you missed out on what is happening to Shinn, you can clearly see that he is starting to think for himself therefore might have listened to Athrun this time and considered what he said which would make him hesitate.

[Terracosmo]

To all of the "Shinn is stupid and doesn't understand what Athrun says nor does he give a shit about Meyrin" morons:

Would all of you be satisfied if Shinn just said

"Okay fuck this shit, Athrun is right, who cares about my best friend Rey and my closest female companion and emotional comfort Lunamaria? I'll now defect!"

IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.

To say that Shinn didn't care about Meyrin is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. Watch the show instead of getting your dicks hard from Kira's constant plot device wins you goddamn retarded fanboys. God.

[drunkenmaster]

he almost lisened to athurn when athurn was in the gouf also, thats why he was panting. he was thinking about what to do and then he didnt want to think anymore so he went crazy. this time athurn was keeping him away from rey also, which u can tell made him slightly angry.
it comes down to this
so athurn in bad condition half dead and doesnt want to kill shin
vs shin sorta moved by speech, hates kira even more(more incentive to fight) wants to help rey(more incentive to fight) in seed mode(doesnt care about athurn's speech at that specific time) So shins normal fighitng is impeded, but his seed mode in unaffected, which is the only part he got owned in.

@terra i said he didnt care when he was in seed mode. i gues his caring is chopping u up in pieces then;P. when shin attacked athurn, at that specific moment he did not care about athurn or myren anymore.

[Freki]

Originally posted by: Motteh
but really, this can go on forever since you don't seem to get my point that no plan is failsafe
there are always things that go wrong or slightly different then you expected and thus rendering the latter part of your plan useless

i understand plans arent fool proof but it just seems like as soon as you start using a fake lacus you should prolly be getting prepared for the day the real one shows up. idk i guess i dont feel that her showing up shoulda been this incredible a shock to Dullindal.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
but athurn still did, so it makes up for it.. that also means athurn must been piolting justice very poorly(didnt look like that). athurn was sweating the whole time, you could tell he was in great pain. also since he went seed u said he was outta control, what difference would that friggin make, nothing like matters to him now at that specific point. remember when he attacked athurn in the gouf? athruns previous speech did nothing, and he didnt even care about myren. in fact he was like im gonan take u down bastard! he had flashbacks in both senarios(fighting against athurn in gouf, then in justice).makes up for what? it being ridiculous? it makes it even more ridiculous, i was even surprised they showed him coming out bleeding, that's just to not exaggerate the plot device i guess (although it's a little late for that)
as for Athrun not making an impression on Shinn when he was in the Gouf, i disagree, go rewatch the episode and you'll have to see that Athrun atleast gave Shinn pause by what he said
and in episode 43 it's clearly visible that Athrun gave Shinn pause, you can see the doubt on his face (and i've only seen the raw sofar so i don't understand a thing they're saying)
and besides, ever since Shinn shot down, or rather cut/stabbed down, Athrun and Meyrin he has been thinking, maybe even since he defeated Freedom, but that's from my shady memory, i'd have to rewatch it to make sure

@PSJ: can't do anything but agree as you can read in the above

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Motteh


Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
but athurn still did, so it makes up for it.. that also means athurn must been piolting justice very poorly(didnt look like that). athurn was sweating the whole time, you could tell he was in great pain. also since he went seed u said he was outta control, what difference would that friggin make, nothing like matters to him now at that specific point. remember when he attacked athurn in the gouf? athruns previous speech did nothing, and he didnt even care about myren. in fact he was like im gonan take u down bastard! he had flashbacks in both senarios(fighting against athurn in gouf, then in justice).makes up for what? it being ridiculous? it makes it even more ridiculous, i was even surprised they showed him coming out bleeding, that's just to not exaggerate the plot device i guess (although it's a little late for that)
as for Athrun not making an impression on Shinn when he was in the Gouf, i disagree, go rewatch the episode and you'll have to see that Athrun atleast gave Shinn pause by what he said
and in episode 43 it's clearly visible that Athrun gave Shinn pause, you can see the doubt on his face (and i've only seen the raw sofar so i don't understand a thing they're saying)
and besides, ever since Shinn shot down, or rather cut/stabbed down, Athrun and Meyrin he has been thinking, maybe even since he defeated Freedom, but that's from my shady memory, i'd have to rewatch it to make sure

@PSJ: can't do anything but agree as you can read in the above

i agree with before he went seed, he was moved by the speech, but after he went seed, he didnt care. my argument is that when shin went seed against athurn the second time, it is the same senario. at first he is moved, then he doesnt care anymore when he goes seed. athurn owned shin when shin was in the didnt care mode, therefore he was not impeded by anything. to back this up shin did not care about athrun or myren when he ws in SEED MODE . athrun was like SHIN STOP MYREN IS HERE and shin is like im gonna kill u!!!!(clarified for terra (sorry terra! my bad!) i doubt when shin turned seed and was charging toward athurn he was thinking"hmm athurn might be right, maybe i shouldnt do this) the fact that he turns seed shows that HE CHOOSES to take athurn down(both senarios) .thoughts that are in his mind are probably more like: DIEEEE. Shin is only impeded by speeches before he turns seed. when he turns seed he just friggin mows everything. therefore athurn beat shin without impedements. if anything like i said athurn was impeded. now if athurn beat shin out of seed mode, i would gladly say shin was impeded menetally by athurn's speeches. and yes athrun fighting is pretty freacked up, but the fact that he was fighting in that condition proves he wasnt fighting at his maximum potential. he shouldnt be fighting he he did fight, o well fukada is a stupid man once again.

[PSJ]

Going SEED doesn't mean you turn into a killing machine, it is simply a stage of evolution which makes you react quicker and so on. Shinn did care about Meyrin and Athrun when he "killed" them. He hestitated alot if he was doing the right thing but he decided that following orders was the best way to go, taking a decision like that is not easy and Shinn is not a cold hearted murderer, he is a kid.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: Freki


Originally posted by: Motteh
but really, this can go on forever since you don't seem to get my point that no plan is failsafe
there are always things that go wrong or slightly different then you expected and thus rendering the latter part of your plan useless

i understand plans arent fool proof but it just seems like as soon as you start using a fake lacus you should prolly be getting prepared for the day the real one shows up. idk i guess i dont feel that her showing up shoulda been this incredible a shock to Dullindal.
yet again in this scenario you have the uncertainty of not knowing when she'll show up and it's impossible to be prepared 24/7, and responding the next day will leave to big an impression on the people
especially since the people have no clear indication which is the real one
let's just assume you run into identical twins and you know the name of one (Lacus for example) and suppose you ask the simple question "who of you is Lacus?" and both answer with "i am" then how would you find out which is the real one with nothing more then your eyes and their statements?
can you imagine the confusion and perhaps unrest the real Lacus' appearance will create?
to conclude: it's impossible to be sure whether or not he was prepared, let's just assume he did because he has proven himself to be a mastermind and brilliant puppeteer in the past
in that case it's not her appearance that shocks him the most but more the time of it, but i'm just making assumptions cause i couldn't understand what's been said due to the fact that i've only seen the raw
(yet i have the courage, or ignorance, to engage in this debate)

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Going SEED doesn't mean you turn into a killing machine, it is simply a stage of evolution which makes you react quicker and so on. Shinn did care about Meyrin and Athrun when he "killed" them. He hestitated alot if he was doing the right thing but he decided that following orders was the best way to go, taking a decision like that is not easy and Shinn is not a cold hearted murderer, he is a kid.

first of all, shin hestitated after he "killed them" but that was when he was calmer. when he first goes seed, he is always like blinded by his anger also he hesitated when he was in non seed mode. in seed mode he hesitated 0 percent. i did not say shin was a cold blood killer. the problem with him is that he cant choose to activate seed. so when kira is in seed, hes just the same kira but more uber. when shin is in seed, the only time is IS IN SEED is when he WANTS to kill. that is why it SEEMS that he becomes a killer in seed mode when its actually just his anger.
also when he charged at athurn he didnt hesiate at all. he went seed, and he charged as fast as he could. if he was impeded he wouldnt have done that. him not hesitating means hes not impeded by anything, he goes seed and boom hes after athurn. i dont know what is ipeding him at that specific point.

[PSJ]

Wrong. He goes SEED in diffrent situations by diffrent emotions. He can also calm down whil in SEED mode and think straight even if he went into SEED mode by getting angry.

[drunkenmaster]

once again i said he turns seed and he charges. yes he can think AFTER he calms down for a few mins. but that that specific moment hes not calm... he doesnt think. he turns seed and charges. no impedements. i cant think of a situation shin goes seed when he doesnt want to kill. ive seen kira do it like 500 times but shin, not even once. every time he goes seed he is crazy. u are correct about seed in general. however SHINS use of seed is uncontrolable. he cant go into seed mode based on different emotions. he doesnt know how (or he hasnt shown he knows how).
once again shin goes seed and charges at athurn like 1 nanosecond later. he is not calm. he has 0 impedements. he wants to slice athurn's brains out. athurn goes seed, and slices his arm off. the fight is over.

[Deblas]

Geez. Too much Fuck Kira and Fuck Shinn. None of you guys are right on who is better you know. Kira is all freakin plot device while Shinn is a total agnst, Im always right so fuck you, lousy excuse for a main character. Not even Kira was that agnsty in Seed.

Shinn beat Kira in his freedom and Athrun in the gouf. But bear in mind that they were on the defensive with no rage and killing intention while Shinn was. And that battle against Freedom and Shinn was freagin awesome.

Fight against S-F and Destiny. They fought equally. Its obvious that Shinn has become an ace fighter but none of them have surpassed each other in skill since none of them has lost any limbs or died in this battle. Though Shinn does have the advantage cause he is freakin pissed and goes beserk. Though S-F with that kick and disarming Destiny of his big ass sword was pretty sweet.

Fight against I-J and Destiny. Shinn was all WTF so he was emotionally whatever and Athrun was really hurt. They both went seed and Athrun cut off his arm. Still doesn't mean who is better for just cutting an arm.

Now the WTF's:

Luna was a plain joke. Give her Freedoms targeting system and still wouldn't hit anything.

Kira was in Seed and he has been God throughout the series and you tell me he couldn't even chop a leg of Legend? We are almost to the ending and Fukuda decided to make him a normal pilot now! Fuck is that about?!

[Motteh]

in the episode where Shinn took down the Gouf he goes into SEED mode after making his decision
well actually more during the making of the decision
to summarize it it went something like this: "long monologue from Athrun to Shinn" "Shinn doubts" "Athrun talks more" "Rey puts his foot between the door and interveines" "Shinn's forced to make a choice" "Athrun and Rey clash while they both are talking to Shinn" "Shinn makes his decision, goes SEED and takes down the Gouf"
and then afterwards he has some serious regret as can be seen
so stop making it sound like Shinn goes into SEED mode just to "escape" decisions, because that's how you make it sound

also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

[Phoenix20578]

Originally posted by: Deblas
Geez. Too much Fuck Kira and Fuck Shinn. None of you guys are right on who is better you know. Kira is all freakin plot device while Shinn is a total agnst, Im always right so fuck you, lousy excuse for a main character. Not even Kira was that agnsty in Seed.

Shinn beat Kira in his freedom and Athrun in the gouf. But bear in mind that they were on the defensive with no rage and killing intention while Shinn was. And that battle against Freedom and Shinn was freagin awesome.

Fight against S-F and Destiny. They fought equally. Its obvious that Shinn has become an ace fighter but none of them have surpassed each other in skill since none of them has lost any limbs or died in this battle. Though Shinn does have the advantage cause he is freakin pissed and goes beserk. Though S-F with that kick and disarming Destiny of his big ass sword was pretty sweet.

Fight against I-J and Destiny. Shinn was all WTF so he was emotionally whatever and Athrun was really hurt. They both went seed and Athrun cut off his arm. Still doesn't mean who is better for just cutting an arm.

Now the WTF's:

Luna was a plain joke. Give her Freedoms targeting system and still wouldn't hit anything.

Kira was in Seed and he has been God throughout the series and you tell me he couldn't even chop a leg of Legend? We are almost to the ending and Fukuda decided to make him a normal pilot now! Fuck is that about?!


Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap...
Finnaly, someone said it.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas
Geez. Too much Fuck Kira and Fuck Shinn. None of you guys are right on who is better you know. Kira is all freakin plot device while Shinn is a total agnst, Im always right so fuck you, lousy excuse for a main character. Not even Kira was that agnsty in Seed.

Shinn beat Kira in his freedom and Athrun in the gouf. But bear in mind that they were on the defensive with no rage and killing intention while Shinn was. And that battle against Freedom and Shinn was freagin awesome.

Fight against S-F and Destiny. They fought equally. Its obvious that Shinn has become an ace fighter but none of them have surpassed each other in skill since none of them has lost any limbs or died in this battle. Though Shinn does have the advantage cause he is freakin pissed and goes beserk. Though S-F with that kick and disarming Destiny of his big ass sword was pretty sweet.

Fight against I-J and Destiny. Shinn was all WTF so he was emotionally whatever and Athrun was really hurt. They both went seed and Athrun cut off his arm. Still doesn't mean who is better for just cutting an arm.

Now the WTF's:

Luna was a plain joke. Give her Freedoms targeting system and still wouldn't hit anything.

Kira was in Seed and he has been God throughout the series and you tell me he couldn't even chop a leg of Legend? We are almost to the ending and Fukuda decided to make him a normal pilot now! Fuck is that about?!

if shin=kira and kira didnt chop anything off. and athurn chop off arm.... u gotta give him sum credit...

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Motteh
in the episode where Shinn took down the Gouf he goes into SEED mode after making his decision
well actually more during the making of the decision
to summarize it it went something like this: "long monologue from Athrun to Shinn" "Shinn doubts" "Athrun talks more" "Rey puts his foot between the door and interveines" "Shinn's forced to make a choice" "Athrun and Rey clash while they both are talking to Shinn" "Shinn makes his decision, goes SEED and takes down the Gouf"
and then afterwards he has some serious regret as can be seen
so stop making it sound like Shinn goes into SEED mode just to "escape" decisions, because that's how you make it sound

also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

shin goes seed not to escape descisons, because he has a hard time making them.
ok this is the other version. athurn monlauge, shin think, then kira and rey are duking it out. athurn wont let shin pass, rey intervenes again.. then he makes descision to go seed and take him down.
IM arguing for this... SHIN WAS NOT IMPEDED BY ANYTHING AT THE FINAL SHOWDOWN WIH ATHURN BECAUSE HE 1MADE HIS DESISCION OR 2 HE DOESNT CARE ANYMORE: CHOOSE ONE DOESNT MATTER(the seed one) athurn legitamently raped his ass in the 1 second seed fight

why is my edit button mesed up..... sorry for double post again....

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: Motteh
also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

Back then Kira couldn't control his Seed like now. Its the same with Shinn. He triggers his Seed with anger and emotion making him go beserk like Kira used to. Its just a matter of time until he learns how to control it too.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: Motteh
also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

Back then Kira couldn't control his Seed like now. Its the same with Shinn. He triggers his Seed with anger and emotion making him go beserk like Kira used to. Its just a matter of time until he learns how to control it too.

i totally agree, shin will learn. im not arguing about why he goes seed, when he goes seed, why hes weird. i just want to make the point that athurn legitamently owned shin in the seed "fight" wasnt really a fight i guess more like a 1 second action. people keep saying shin is emotionally hurt or distracted and it wasnt fair. the fact is. 1 if he made his descision to attack athurn, that means he is not distracted anymore, he made his descision and decided to go in and fight, he is only DISTRACTED BEFore he chooses to attack not when he already chooses. OR he plain goes crazy and athurns speech at that time is no good. EITHER WAY NO IMPEDEDMENTS at that specific seed fight. non seed fight between athurn and shin, yes SHIN WAS DISTACTED. but none of them hurt eachother anywaz.. and as i said if kira=shin and neither did damage. but athurn chopped off an arm. it has to mean SUMTHING!

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
shin goes seed not to escape descisons, because he has a hard time making them.
ok this is the other version. athurn monlauge, shin think, then kira and rey are duking it out. athurn wont let shin pass, rey intervenes again.. then he makes descision to go seed and take him down.
IM arguing for this... SHIN WAS NOT IMPEDED BY ANYTHING AT THE FINAL SHOWDOWN WIH ATHURN BECAUSE HE 1MADE HIS DESISCION OR 2 HE DOESNT CARE ANYMORE: CHOOSE ONE DOESNT MATTER(the seed one) athurn legitamently raped his ass in the 1 second seed fight
to support my statement about Shinn being able to make decisions i referred to the fight between Athrun, Shinn and Rey, where clearly he's tossed to and fro between Rey and Athrun and finally makes a decision and then goes SEED, but as far as i'm concerned this "discussion" is over, since each side is convinced they're right and thus will not listen to 1 another

@Deblas: i know that i just brought it up as argument against drunken's "kira never goes seed to kill" statement
it was in no way a response to what you said because i was typing it before you finished posting

[drunkenmaster]

i never said kira never go seed to kill. i said ive seen kira go seed not to kill many times but not shin.. quote where i said KIRA NEVER GOES SEED TO KILL. or something that means that. i never said that kira NEVER went seed to kill. i only said i have seen him go seed not to kill and he can go seed not to kill if he wants to unlike shin..

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
i totally agree, shin will learn. im not arguing about why he goes seed, when he goes seed, why hes weird. i just want to make the point that athurn legitamently owned shin in the seed "fight" wasnt really a fight i guess more like a 1 second action. people keep saying shin is emotionally hurt or distracted and it wasnt fair. the fact is. 1 if he made his descision to attack athurn, that means he is not distracted anymore, he made his descision and decided to go in and fight, he is only DISTRACTED BEFore he chooses to attack not when he already chooses. OR he plain goes crazy and athurns speech at that time is no good. EITHER WAY NO IMPEDEDMENTS at that specific seed fight. non seed fight between athurn and shin, yes SHIN WAS DISTACTED. but none of them hurt eachother anywaz.. and as i said if kira=shin and neither did damage. but athurn chopped off an arm. it has to mean SUMTHING!



You are right but also being beserk actually leaves you more vulnerable. When you are enraged you stop thinking straight. You charge forward not thinking about your actions and the only thing in your mind is that you want that person dead and gone.

[drunkenmaster]

wow ive never seen it come down to this... now that shin got legit owned by athurn ur arguing berzerker seed is bad so athurn had the advantage.... also thank u. u said the only thing in ur mind is that u want the person gone. that means shin wasnt impeded when he went seed cuz he just wanted to kill athurn. he wasnt impeded by athurn's speech at that specific point. athurn legit ownage. both of them were aimed for eachother and athurn owned him. at that point athurn;s speech was obsolete because as u said shins mind wasnt on it. ok look athurn finnaly does sumthing after being weird throught the entire series. he beat kira which i supported, and he beat athurn, which i didnt like but i never said omg UNFAIR (even tho it was unfair) now this is a fair seed fight and now shin fanboys are going crazy.

[Deblas]

None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

[PSJ]

Berserker SEED? There is no such thing as berserker SEED. It is simply being angry while in SEED mode.

[Mae]

Wow, lots of who won the battle arguments.... Although it was kind of nice to see the 2 versus 2 gundam fight I don't think you can say anyone "won" because the battle was called off. ZAFT decided to retreat and ORB decided not to pursue. Both good decisions because once Djibril made his escape it was all kind of pointless, and both sides were taking rather heavy losses. I'd call the whole thing a draw.

The end was a kind of "finally" moment. I can see Lacus wanting to live her own life and not have to always act as some kind of public symbol, but enough is enough. I suppose now that they have ORB's resources behind them they can interupt a broadcast if they want. ORB always did have good tech. Dulandil's latest intelligence had Lacus hiding out in space, so I get why he's surprised, but what will he do now?

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about. also since freedom didnt cut of destiny's arm or cut of any parts i guess kira wasnt emotionally sane either.... based on ur interpretation

[Curium]

Originally posted by: MrTicTac
well add another one for shinn refusing to listen and think again, he's prolly gonna deny that real lacus

That depends on the stance that Dullindal and Rey take, and who Shinn believes. Assuming Dullindal and Rey try to side with Meer, Lunamaria and (I think) Talia both know that Meer is a fake. It depends on if Shinn listens to Rey or to Luna.



Originally posted by: Motteh
and about Neo/Mwu, i'm stubborn till the end and want him to say he's Mwu before i'll admit it
but you're right, the flashback leaves very little (if not not any at all) room for something else
that summed up with his other "Mwu-like characteristics", like "i am the man who makes the impossible possible"
and a less stubborn soab would admit he is him


I'm not even going to let him off that easy. He has to show EXACTLY how Mwu would have survived before I will admit anything. I don't care if I've already lost this war. Just having Neo say he "is" Mwu isn't enough for me.



Originally posted by: Gangrel
Well, seems like they forgot about Seed mode on Kira, because he couldn't win a fight against Rey that sure is weak compared to anyone else in Seed mode. Or maybe the all mighty Kira don't actually have the skills after all uh?

Keep in mind that Kira had trouble against Providence as well. Legend is an upgrade of that so it isn't unreasonable to assume that Kira would have trouble with it as well. We didn't get a chance to see who would really win in the end.

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster


Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged. You win by immobilizing the unit or killing the pilot. He didn't do either.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: drunkenmaster


Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged. You win by imobolizing the unit or killing the pilot. He didn't do either.

agreed. he didnt imobilize or kill shin. but u gotta admit, shin was about to be screwed. and the fact that he had to retreat only hurts him more. but yes i see ur point. PROPS to athurn for damaging destiny when kira couldnt!

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: drunkenmaster


Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged.

Destiny is mostly melee, once u cut its arms its almost useless, IJustice is Melee and i think it has integrated beams, like SFreedom (not so sure about that). Destinys possibilities to beat athrun were reduced to less than half of what they were at the beginning. I think we can safely bet Shinn would have lost given the time to continue the battle, Athrun probably lost conciousness because he relaxed otherwise he could go on a little while more (in which time Shinn would be defeated) plus remember SFreedom is going against Legend, most likely Legend would have lost (u see how Rey shoots everywhere?) and Athrun would have SF backing him in case he couldnt go on.

EDIT: BTW @deblas, Shinn did have the advantage taking into consideration Athruns shape. And Shinn was "FOCUSED", he went SEED (with a lot of anger, like always).

[addict4speed]

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about. also since freedom didnt cut of destiny's arm or cut of any parts i guess kira wasnt emotionally sane either.... based on ur interpretation

The argument is not whether the fight's unfair, but analyzing which side was at an advantage/disadvantage.

[drunkenmaster]

well in a fight someone has to have an advantage... people said before that shin being emotionally unstable and distracted was unfair and that they will "give" athurn alittle credit.... i was saying this has nothing to do with fairness and athurn deserves the legitamency of that arm HE earned that arm!... i fail to see how ur trying to counter me.. i started off this whole crazy argument (my apologies) because someone said athurn's owning of destiny was not legit. i was like wtf a guy gets outta bed when he is half dead to help his friend and nabs a hit on an uber gundam, get SUMONE (i will not mention his name) says OMG UNFAIR SOO UNFAIR THAT ATHURN WON OMG ILLEGIT HAX.

@ SF freedom- i totally agree with what u are saying i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

If Shinn being emotionally unstable is a disadvantage in battle, i think u r wrong, because that has been Shinn personality all along, so thats Shinn. That counts when he is emotionally stable then in a fight for some reason he isnt.

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a


Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: drunkenmaster


Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged.

EDIT: BTW @deblas, Shinn did have the advantage taking into consideration Athruns shape. And Shinn was "FOCUSED", he went SEED (with a lot of anger, like always).

Like I said. None of them had the advantage. One was emotionally hurt and one was physically hurt.

And that song that played on the preview. Its new isn't it?


EDIT:



Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a
If Shinn being emotionally unstable is a disadvantage in battle, i think u r wrong, because that has been Shinn personality all along, so thats Shinn. That counts when he is emotionally stable then in a fight for some reason he isnt.

But have you taken in account that the two persons that he thought he killed just came back with brand new mobile suits? The persons that he actually acknowledge as a threat and enemy and that they must be destroyed? And after Athruns speech he again was in his confused state.

[drunkenmaster]

hmm good point. never noticed that actually.

[drunkenmaster]

yah that is a new song and its a damn good one too!
OMG WHATS WRONG WITH MY EDIT BUTTON!!!!! once again i apologize for my crazy doubleposting i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: Motteh
also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

Back then Kira couldn't control his Seed like now. Its the same with Shinn. He triggers his Seed with anger and emotion making him go beserk like Kira used to. Its just a matter of time until he learns how to control it too.

It didnt took that long for Kira to control his SEED, plus he always was doing it to protect his friend, i only saw Shinn do that the first time he went SEED, kinda. U saw him attacking defenseless, againt Impulse, enemies that were escaping, thats why Athrun Slapped him.

For some reason i alway forget to write this but i think Haine had some kind of Issue bacause of two phrases he used in his last battle:

"This Unit is different froma Gouf"

(When Freedom was going for him)
"Dont look down on me"

Plus the fact that he wanted to be called just HAINE not commander

Think about it (Subject closed)

Or something like that

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

EDIT:



Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a
If Shinn being emotionally unstable is a disadvantage in battle, i think u r wrong, because that has been Shinn personality all along, so thats Shinn. That counts when he is emotionally stable then in a fight for some reason he isnt.

But have you taken in account that the two persons that he thought he killed just came back? And after Athruns speech he again was in his confused state.[/quote]

FUK: Double posted

That passed once he went SEED and right after that he lost one of Destinys arms(this is Athruns coming back to life).
(Kira coming back to life) Passed in the last Phase.

Once SHinn goes SEED in anger he is back to his "NORMAL SELF".

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a


Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: drunkenmaster


Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged.

EDIT: BTW @deblas, Shinn did have the advantage taking into consideration Athruns shape. And Shinn was "FOCUSED", he went SEED (with a lot of anger, like always).

Like I said. None of them had the advantage. One was emotionally hurt and one was physically hurt.

And that song that played on the preview. Its new isn't it?


EDIT:



Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a
If Shinn being emotionally unstable is a disadvantage in battle, i think u r wrong, because that has been Shinn personality all along, so thats Shinn. That counts when he is emotionally stable then in a fight for some reason he isnt.

But have you taken in account that the two persons that he thought he killed just came back with brand new mobile suits? The persons that he actually acknowledge as a threat and enemy and that they must be destroyed? And after Athruns speech he again was in his confused state.

about the confused state shin thing. please read my other posts. it explains why the emotional state is not an issue at that point. in seed mode, he has 2 options. either 1 he made a desction that he must kill athurn so he doesnt care about what athurn said because he decided to kill him obviously. or he goes back into his raging monkey seed mode and this emotional speech crap means nothing to him. therefore, athurn's speech was not a variable in the SEED fight. read other posts for more detailed explanation ( i think it was like 2 pages back lamo i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Deblas]

Well I guess all of this is given that we all have a point. We should mail Fukuda and ask him. And now that were on it. Lets send him a deadly disease to go with our questions.

[drunkenmaster]

hmm lets put sum anthax in there!

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: Deblas
Well I guess all of this is given that we all have a point. We should mail Fukuda and ask him. And now that were on it. Lets send him a deadly disease to go with our questions.

Good idea, but lets wait till GSD and the OVA (I hope) is finished and aired. Does anyone knows where to get ANTRAX? If u do, u got like three months to get it and mail it.

Shinn lovers have always loved him emotionally unstable, if now they start saying he was at a disadvantage because of that, then they r just trying to justify why he lost.

EDIT: FUK, drunkenmaster beat me to the punch.

[Deblas]

Well don't get me wrong, I hate Shinn. Just giving possibilities of why the battle went that way. And I'm not a Kira fanboy either. But S-F is an extremely sweet MS.

[Mae]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
hmm lets put sum anthax in there!

The FBI is watching you o.o

[Curium]

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a
Does anyone knows where to get ANTRAX? If u do, u got like three months to get it and mail it.

EDIT: FUK, drunkenmaster beat me to the punch.

Syria



Originally posted by: Deblas
Well don't get me wrong, I hate Shinn. And I'm not a Kira fanboy either. But S-F is an extremely sweet MS.

I just want to second this comment. I've always hated Shinn, and thus people dump me into the Kira camp, but I'm not a Kira fan either. I'm a fan of Freedom/SF though. Kira just happens to be the pilot of them.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: Curium


Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a
Does anyone knows where to get ANTRAX? If u do, u got like three months to get it and mail it.

EDIT: FUK, drunkenmaster beat me to the punch.

Syria



Originally posted by: Deblas
Well don't get me wrong, I hate Shinn. And I'm not a Kira fanboy either. But S-F is an extremely sweet MS.

I just want to second this comment. I've always hated Shinn, and thus people dump me into the Kira camp, but I'm not a Kira fan either. I'm a fan of Freedom/SF though. Kira just happens to be the pilot of them.

Im a KIra-fan, i really like his character, And SF its an amazing MS, IJustice is a little cooler tho.

[alukard]

Shinn lovers have always loved him emotionally unstable, if now they start saying he was at a disadvantage because of that, then they r just trying to justify why he lost.

---

Good point. Shinn didnt lost focus. He wasnt hesitating at all when he lost to Athrun.

I dont see why people are clapping their hands when Shinn stabbed Kira in the back while he's retreating and then stabbed Athrun in the back (both not literally but he was chasing fleeing combatants who would have let him flee if the situation was reversed), but are making excuses when Shinn was owned and saying Shinn only received a scratch when its clear that the intentions of Athrun was that he wanted to only disable Shinn and was the one who was distracted because he was hurt by Shinn (both physically and emotionally earlier.) Athrun was running for his own life and Shinn didnt give him a benefit of a doubt as his former superior. Athrun even at one point thought he lost a former friend because of Shinn, and took it well unlike Shinn who lost his cool over a pretty face (i dont blame that though because its a stronger bond than friends and Shinn lost that), but thought he himself alone had to carry the weight of seeking the truth about the chairman and what he intends to do with Orb. Athrun was distracted with having to look after Kira, Ray, AND Shinn and being referee and was interrupted with his speak by a teleporting Destiny and a miraged silhouette of death's blade in his face and facing immenent doom.

What was Shinn distracted by? Was he hurt? What a poor kid, he's hurt by words of a half-bleeding, half-dead corpse's ineffective babbler draining the last of his blood and air supply to his brains to speak out and protect both sides for reality of why they're at war? No, Shinn was focused, focused on cutting Athrun while he's being referee and while Athrun was the one distracted and still have friends on both Zaft and Orb. While Kira was occupied with Ray, Shinn had only one target and went S.E.E.D to do one and only one thing, which is to kill a 'traitor' once and for all. Im not even sure why Fukuda had to make that scene with Shinn and Luna Maria at the end. Did Shinn change at all after confronting a corpse he tried to murder and buried and failed or is he still the brat that he is, self-righteous and c*cky?

[mako]

Hi all I'm new to posting around here, but I've been lurking for a while ^_^



Originally posted by: Gangrel
Well, seems like they forgot about Seed mode on Kira, because he couldn't win a fight against Rey that sure is weak compared to anyone else in Seed mode. Or maybe the all mighty Kira don't actually have the skills after all uh? Don't come with the it was 2x1 conversation, cause Athrun was handling Shinn.

My guess is that Fukuda decided since Legend is essentially Providence, Kira saw the resembelence he was like "fuk now i hav 2 work hard ftw, providence wud have pwnd me if I wasn't god in teh last series"

hehe, no I don't hate Kira, but it's the only "excues" I can think that would be even remotely valid as to why Kira didn't beat Rey like he did Savior.

[Digitalgirl]

*watches ep. again* Milly's popular... [19:12]

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: mako
Hi all I'm new to posting around here, but I've been lurking for a while ^_^



Originally posted by: Gangrel
Well, seems like they forgot about Seed mode on Kira, because he couldn't win a fight against Rey that sure is weak compared to anyone else in Seed mode. Or maybe the all mighty Kira don't actually have the skills after all uh? Don't come with the it was 2x1 conversation, cause Athrun was handling Shinn.

My guess is that Fukuda decided since Legend is essentially Providence, Kira saw the resembelence he was like "fuk now i hav 2 work hard ftw, providence wud have pwnd me if I wasn't god in teh last series"

hehe, no I don't hate Kira, but it's the only "excues" I can think that would be even remotely valid as to why Kira didn't beat Rey like he did Savior.

Welcome to the forums.

The simple reason to why Kira didn't shoot down Legend is that they need to kill someone important off in the last episode, and since Fukuda lacks the balls to kill any main character he's saving Rey for that job.

Also I'm quite sure that Shinn will end up fighting him.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: alukard
Shinn lovers have always loved him emotionally unstable, if now they start saying he was at a disadvantage because of that, then they r just trying to justify why he lost.

---

Good point. Shinn didnt lost focus. He wasnt hesitating at all when he lost to Athrun.

I dont see why people are clapping their hands when Shinn stabbed Kira in the back while he's retreating and then stabbed Athrun in the back (both not literally but he was chasing fleeing combatants who would have let him flee if the situation was reversed), but are making excuses when Shinn was owned and saying Shinn only received a scratch when its clear that the intentions of Athrun was that he wanted to only disable Shinn and was the one who was distracted because he was hurt by Shinn (both physically and emotionally earlier.) Athrun was running for his own life and Shinn didnt give him a benefit of a doubt as his former superior. Athrun even at one point thought he lost a former friend because of Shinn, and took it well unlike Shinn who lost his cool over a pretty face (i dont blame that though because its a stronger bond than friends and Shinn lost that), but thought he himself alone had to carry the weight of seeking the truth about the chairman and what he intends to do with Orb. Athrun was distracted with having to look after Kira, Ray, AND Shinn and being referee and was interrupted with his speak by a teleporting Destiny and a miraged silhouette of death's blade in his face and facing immenent doom.

What was Shinn distracted by? Was he hurt? What a poor kid, he's hurt by words of a half-bleeding, half-dead corpse's ineffective babbler draining the last of his blood and air supply to his brains to speak out and protect both sides for reality of why they're at war? No, Shinn was focused, focused on cutting Athrun while he's being referee and while Athrun was the one distracted and still have friends on both Zaft and Orb. While Kira was occupied with Ray, Shinn had only one target and went S.E.E.D to do one and only one thing, which is to kill a 'traitor' once and for all. Im not even sure why Fukuda had to make that scene with Shinn and Luna Maria at the end. Did Shinn change at all after confronting a corpse he tried to murder and buried and failed or is he still the brat that he is, self-righteous and c*cky?

U r right in most of what u said.

1.- But Shinn did have a motive to take down Athrun, after all he was defecting ZAFT, but what he did was wrong because he didnt let Meyring get oof the GOUF, thats was wrong of him.

2.- True, Athrun did have control of himself, not like Shinn, U should check the FUNNIES thread there r some parodies and ONE is very likely to occur (or could have been true) it is about Athrun THREE-TIMING while on MINERVA.

3.- Shinn was confused and vulnurable. BUT just when Athrun appeared, but AThrun didnt attack, so it doesnt matter even if Shinn were blind in that moment, why would it matter if the enemy isnt attacking but talking. When he returned to his usual self (not the SEED one, that comes after) HE attacked Athrun, so Athrun attacked back. After that both of them battle.

4.- Shinn and Lunamaria have a relationship? because i dont notice it. I wonder why the hell Shinn didnt told Lunamaria Athrun was alive. If Athrun was alive, then possibly Lunamaria's cute little sister is too, but ehy he didnt tell her?

There is something wrong with Shinn, he really needs to talk with someone, he needs professional help. I could recommend him DR. LEAD if he doesnt want help.

[Curium]

Originally posted by: mako
hehe, no I don't hate Kira, but it's the only "excues" I can think that would be even remotely valid as to why Kira didn't beat Rey like he did Savior.

Well, 1 other thing as well. Rey was acctually trying too fight. When Kira took out Saviour Athrun was just talking.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: Curium


Originally posted by: mako
hehe, no I don't hate Kira, but it's the only "excues" I can think that would be even remotely valid as to why Kira didn't beat Rey like he did Savior.

Well, 1 other thing as well. Rey was acctually trying too fight. When Kira took out Saviour Athrun was just talking.

I dont really know why Kira didnt beat Rey, but i think its because Athrun was on the Battlefield while injured. Kira has showed in a lot of ocassions that he worries for his friends, like when Minerva was chasing after AA and Kira was battling Shinn. Shinn and Rey arent so worried about MInerva, otherwise Shinn would had tried to stop the Skygrasper, but i can bet he didnt even knew it happened. He didnt even noticed how depleted his power was in Phase 42, and the Screen was pretty easy to notice. Shinn is a Hot-head who forgets whats around him.

Kira could had killed him easy if he had used the CHEST-BEAM, instead he used the canons (or whatever they are) in Phase 42.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
No, Meer IS hot!

Edit: Oh you meant Lacus? Nah, she better burn in hell and get raped nonstop by tentacles formed as tridents.

Mmmmm.... paaaaain ^_^

TAKE IT BACk.

[masamuneehs]

Meer > Lacus.

I can't stand how sugary sweet, super righteous and prim and proper Lacus always is. It is irritating to the point of horrendous torture. SHE'S A POP STAR! WHY DO PEOPLE LISTEN TO HER? Where did she get her serious political stance from, her makeup artist? A popstar celebrity singer girl developing into a genius, infinetley good-hearted do-gooder is sheerBULLSHIT. Fukuda never really explains WHY Lacus is the most perfect person in the world and believes all these things. She just is. An annoying hen.



Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
*watches ep. again* Milly's popular... [19:12]

Lol! I noticed that too! I can't remember his name, but the ArchAngel helmsman, the one with blue hair and very Asian features, certainly seemed irked by that other CIC guy sitting down at the table with him and Millie!

& I was glad that Kira noticed that Legend was a beautiful copy of Rey's daddy's MS. Fear Za Burrel!
Seriously, I enjoyed Rey's Palpatine-like ordering of Shinn in this episode.
& Shinn will never beat Kira. The Gods of Hokey Anime Cheesiness (current executive producer: Fukuda) have ordained Kira as the invincible hero, again. I love Shinn's moodiness and overwhelming emotion, its why I like him over Kira. But that kind of emotion in battle often makes people reckless, overly bullheaded, and thus, weaker.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a


Originally posted by: Terracosmo
No, Meer IS hot!

Edit: Oh you meant Lacus? Nah, she better burn in hell and get raped nonstop by tentacles formed as tridents.

Mmmmm.... paaaaain ^_^

TAKE IT BACk.

i must admit, lacus is quite annoying, she always acts so godly, i think she is trying to be like kira and got her annoyingness from him too, o yea and f**k meer, i'd go for meyrin anytime

and athrun going seed was THE GREATEST!!!, but i'd say fukuda was about 15-20 episodes late on that

[KapsLocked]

Ok... Masamune - Lacus' father was a politician, close to Patrick Zala. I forgot his name. He was pretty important in SEED. Anyways, the Clyne faction is known for its stance on pacifism. At least Lacus isn't indecisive like a similar character in Gundam Wing! *coughrelenacough*

I just think it's funny that everyone makes out Kira and Lacus to be such bad people. I feel it's reading too much into the character to be like "OMG Lacus is teh sn0b" even though she was nice to mostly everyone throughout the entire series. This is all based on their characters, mind you, not what they do in the anime (IE, Kira's "godmode" XD).

[Marcis]

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a
Destiny is mostly melee, once u cut its arms its almost useless, IJustice is Melee and i think it has integrated beams, like SFreedom (not so sure about that). Destinys possibilities to beat athrun were reduced to less than half of what they were at the beginning. I think we can safely bet Shinn would have lost given the time to continue the battle, Athrun probably lost conciousness because he relaxed otherwise he could go on a little while more (in which time Shinn would be defeated) plus remember SFreedom is going against Legend, most likely Legend would have lost (u see how Rey shoots everywhere?) and Athrun would have SF backing him in case he couldnt go on.

EDIT: BTW @deblas, Shinn did have the advantage taking into consideration Athruns shape. And Shinn was "FOCUSED", he went SEED (with a lot of anger, like always).
Both Kira and Athrun have shown that they can go SEED on will, switching "on" SEED mode when they please.
On the other hand Shinn has gone SEED only when he is in rage. Not the best condition to win.
Ahtrun's abilities were a bit down since he isn't fully recovered from injuries.
As for Infinite Justice's armaments - you are right, it has beam cannons in it's backpack/sublight lifter:

backpack/subflight lifter: MA-6J "Hyper Fortis" beam cannon x 2, MA-M02S "Plephis Lacerta" retracted beam cannon-mounted short beam saber x 2, MR-Q17X "Griffon 2" wing-mounted beam blade x 2, MA-M02G "Super Lacerta" lifter tip beam saber x 1

you can read more about IJs specs here:
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gund...-destiny/zgmf-x19a.htm (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/zgmf-x19a.htm)
or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z...nfinite_Justice_Gundam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZGMF-X19A_Infinite_Justice_Gundam)

still... i would love to kill that idiot who added word "Infinite" to Justice's name.
Infinite Justice sounds very cheesy, although Japanese teenagers might dig it. Probably result of some online poll "How we will call Athrun's new Gundam?" i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif

[Kovash]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Meer > Lacus.

I can't stand how sugary sweet, super righteous and prim and proper Lacus always is. It is irritating to the point of horrendous torture. SHE'S A POP STAR! WHY DO PEOPLE LISTEN TO HER? Where did she get her serious political stance from, her makeup artist? A popstar celebrity singer girl developing into a genius, infinetley good-hearted do-gooder is sheerBULLSHIT. Fukuda never really explains WHY Lacus is the most perfect person in the world and believes all these things. She just is. An annoying hen.


Lacus' pop-stardom was a political move concocted by her and her father, Lacus can (and does) sing to get her politcal message across. This is why Meer could replace her so easily, since people were used to Lacus' political statements.

Lacus is not at all the weak 'sugery' character people make her out to be, she's a political genius who stands for what she believes, and has thus far converted a whole section of ZAFT and the invincible Kira himself to her philosophy. This meek demeanor is just a facade she puts up to seem innocent.

The prime example of this is the very first time we see it crack, when she had just been handed back to ZAFT by Kira and Rau tries to attck the Archangel, she instantly switches off her meekness and order's Rau down. You can hear it in her voice and see it on her face. Hell, she even does the same to Athrun when he confronts her on PLANT, she's in NO way nieve or sweet, but a cool-headed 'warrior princess' that knows exactly what she's about.

[Gangrel]

I would love to see a plot where Lacus is the evil pink bitch who tries to take everything to her side (take over earth and PLANT) and Dullindal isn't a bad guy after all, its just the good guys (aka Kira, Athrun and others) were twisted by her speech and in the end they realize they got fuckd. Of course that I don't believe they would actually make such a thing, but that's too bad, at least that way I wouldn't hate her so much cause of her dumb face.

Note: On this plot she actually hired those coordinators to kill her so she could twist the reality about the other Lacus and Dulindal, and force Kira to become a warrior that answer all her orders.

[Fading_eternity]

Just my opinion. I think everyone, or most of you are missing the point to Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny. Sure there are many plot device characters. Sure there are many things that are hard to believe and many things that are disappointing and rewarding. But the bottom line is that Fukada is creating a story about the tragedy of war. Everyone who hates or loves Shinn, Lacus, Kira, etc. should recognize what each character stands for. Not only in the series but also in a more tangible way. What message is Fukada trying to project with such archetypal characters?

Many people (including myself at one point, Ill admit) hate Shinn because well for one, hes suddenly on par with these legendary pilots who have way more experience than him. Other reasons being, he whines, cries, has tantrums, etc. I think the more important analysis of his character however is that Shinn is the epitome of innocence lost in war. For ever young man or woman whose thrown in a battlefield with original intent to protect; when a loved one or someone important to them dies, they become a monster or in some way shape or form they do things that greatly deviate from what their original goals may have been. Its the same for Asuran as well and even Kira.

Cagilis father was right when he said violence only breeds more violence. Shinn is trapped in a nest of confusion and anger, which is quite realistic in my opinion. Even though, in entertainment land, wed like to see a different shade of a main character, I think Fukada does an excellent job in portraying a character who embodies the true horror and regret of war in a very personal way, i.e. the very heart of a human being whose desire for peace is derailed and mutated by both internal forces of grief and loss and external forces of political machines and agenda pushers.

I could go on with other character but I get the feeling you all understand my point. As far as Gill is concerned, I think his agenda is quite direct and not altogether evil. Think about it. Hes trying to create a world where one mans desire does not exceed the next. Where man cannot destroy man because of the value of his abilities. Instead of striving to outdo each other, instead everyone applies themselves to the roles they are best suited, (i.e. Asuran and Shinn, as warriors, Lacus as a political symbol, etc.) Also the world united in a cause to destroy those who oppose the new world order of peace. Maybe Im wrong but this all sounds a heck of a lot like communism to me.

Sure not everyone agrees with it, and denying people the FREEDOM and JUSTICE of managing their own lives in favor of falling in line with a given DESTINY may seem unfavorable when you think about it. After all, we all want liberty and freedom with the justice that regulates it. But at the same time, some people call for more preset rules for every individual. For some people who are not fully sure of what path to take on their own, following the path laid out by others is always more preferable I think.

Anyway, I think Gill is trying in his own way to nurture a suffering world that cannot support itself through the natural freedom it is given. Kleuze pretty much laid it out for him when they had the flashback of their conversation.

Im digressing. But my main point is, its fun to have discussions about whats cool and whats not and all that. But I dont think its fair to say Fukada is a horrible writer when all youre focusing on is surface polish and eye candy. Look deeper into the message hes projecting and just maybe& youll find that this Destiny arc may even be a tad bit better than the Seed arc& I think so, anyway.

Again, this is all my opinion and though I normally dont comment in message boards anymore, I just wanted to put that out in the open. Thanks for listening. J

[Aramis]

Shinn was pretty freaked out in this episode. In addition to Freedom, Athrun also comes...he must be like "OMFG! Why does everyone I kill come back to life! DO I really suck that bad? Does this mean Meyrin is alive too?" In his viewpoint things are totally crazy right now.
And LOL@Cagalli's announcement. Meer magically takes over. Then Lacus teleports behind Cagalli from the AA and restores the channel at the same time. BIG WTF.

[shurik]

What's the name of the music played during fight Kira vs Shinn & Rey?

[john_doe_107]

the 4th op is starting to grow one me..
what about you guys?

[Terracosmo]

Gets worse with every listen.

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: Kovash


Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Meer > Lacus.

I can't stand how sugary sweet, super righteous and prim and proper Lacus always is. It is irritating to the point of horrendous torture. SHE'S A POP STAR! WHY DO PEOPLE LISTEN TO HER? Where did she get her serious political stance from, her makeup artist? A popstar celebrity singer girl developing into a genius, infinetley good-hearted do-gooder is sheerBULLSHIT. Fukuda never really explains WHY Lacus is the most perfect person in the world and believes all these things. She just is. An annoying hen.


Lacus' pop-stardom was a political move concocted by her and her father, Lacus can (and does) sing to get her politcal message across. This is why Meer could replace her so easily, since people were used to Lacus' political statements.

Lacus is not at all the weak 'sugery' character people make her out to be, she's a political genius who stands for what she believes, and has thus far converted a whole section of ZAFT and the invincible Kira himself to her philosophy. This meek demeanor is just a facade she puts up to seem innocent.

The prime example of this is the very first time we see it crack, when she had just been handed back to ZAFT by Kira and Rau tries to attck the Archangel, she instantly switches off her meekness and order's Rau down. You can hear it in her voice and see it on her face. Hell, she even does the same to Athrun when he confronts her on PLANT, she's in NO way nieve or sweet, but a cool-headed 'warrior princess' that knows exactly what she's about.

Thank god there are other people out there who understand about Lacus. I hate it when people say things about her being a pop star, or weak, or naive.

In 36 of SEED, she watches her personal guard execute about a dozen people. Heads are being popped mere feet away from her and she doesn't bat an eyelash. She practically steps over their corpses on her way out, and never once acts even a little girlish or squeemish.

She's not the type of be scared of a spider. She's hardcore, and knows what its going to take to get things done, and she knows how to do them.

Note how she chose now to reappear... she knows this move is going to have repurcussions. The whole world is going to be in a confused uproar, which is why I believe she has stood aside until now. However, its obvious that if she had done nothing the damage would have been far more permanent.

[Marcis]

Originally posted by: john_doe_107
the 4th op is starting to grow one me..
what about you guys?
I just rewind past it as fast as possible.

[Jurojin]

Originally posted by: Marcis


Originally posted by: john_doe_107
the 4th op is starting to grow one me..
what about you guys?
I just rewind past it as fast as possible.



Rewind.... past...i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif


Huh!?!?i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

[PSJ]

Fast forward is probably what he meant. I do the same that song sucks.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: KapsLocked
Ok... Masamune - Lacus' father was a politician, close to Patrick Zala. I forgot his name. He was pretty important in SEED. Anyways, the Clyne faction is known for its stance on pacifism. At least Lacus isn't indecisive like a similar character in Gundam Wing! *coughrelenacough*

I just think it's funny that everyone makes out Kira and Lacus to be such bad people. I feel it's reading too much into the character to be like "OMG Lacus is teh sn0b" even though she was nice to mostly everyone throughout the entire series. This is all based on their characters, mind you, not what they do in the anime (IE, Kira's "godmode" XD).

I believe Lacus' father was once the Chairman right before Patrick Zala, so its obvious Lacus was raised to be the daughter of a politician, she was like that from the start. She wasnt a pop Singer and suddenly turned into the LAcus we now, she alwasy was like that, otherwise do u think Reverend Marki would call her Lacus-sama?, she being a Pop Singer?.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a


Originally posted by: KapsLocked
Ok... Masamune - Lacus' father was a politician, close to Patrick Zala. I forgot his name. He was pretty important in SEED. Anyways, the Clyne faction is known for its stance on pacifism. At least Lacus isn't indecisive like a similar character in Gundam Wing! *coughrelenacough*

I just think it's funny that everyone makes out Kira and Lacus to be such bad people. I feel it's reading too much into the character to be like "OMG Lacus is teh sn0b" even though she was nice to mostly everyone throughout the entire series. This is all based on their characters, mind you, not what they do in the anime (IE, Kira's "godmode" XD).

I believe Lacus' father was once the Chairman right before Patrick Zala, so its obvious Lacus was raised to be the daughter of a politician, she was like that from the start. She wasnt a pop Singer and suddenly turned into the LAcus we now, she alwasy was like that, otherwise do u think Reverend Marki would call her Lacus-sama?, she being a Pop Singer?.



Originally posted by: Aramis
Shinn was pretty freaked out in this episode. In addition to Freedom, Athrun also comes...he must be like "OMFG! Why does everyone I kill come back to life! DO I really suck that bad? Does this mean Meyrin is alive too?" In his viewpoint things are totally crazy right now.
And LOL@Cagalli's announcement. Meer magically takes over. Then Lacus teleports behind Cagalli from the AA and restores the channel at the same time. BIG WTF.

TELEPORTS? WTF are u talking about, Kira took her there with Strike Freedom.

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a


Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a


Originally posted by: KapsLocked
Ok... Masamune - Lacus' father was a politician, close to Patrick Zala. I forgot his name. He was pretty important in SEED. Anyways, the Clyne faction is known for its stance on pacifism. At least Lacus isn't indecisive like a similar character in Gundam Wing! *coughrelenacough*

I just think it's funny that everyone makes out Kira and Lacus to be such bad people. I feel it's reading too much into the character to be like "OMG Lacus is teh sn0b" even though she was nice to mostly everyone throughout the entire series. This is all based on their characters, mind you, not what they do in the anime (IE, Kira's "godmode" XD).

I believe Lacus' father was once the Chairman right before Patrick Zala, so its obvious Lacus was raised to be the daughter of a politician, she was like that from the start. She wasnt a pop Singer and suddenly turned into the LAcus we now, she alwasy was like that, otherwise do u think Reverend Marki would call her Lacus-sama?, she being a Pop Singer?.



Originally posted by: Aramis
Shinn was pretty freaked out in this episode. In addition to Freedom, Athrun also comes...he must be like "OMFG! Why does everyone I kill come back to life! DO I really suck that bad? Does this mean Meyrin is alive too?" In his viewpoint things are totally crazy right now.
And LOL@Cagalli's announcement. Meer magically takes over. Then Lacus teleports behind Cagalli from the AA and restores the channel at the same time. BIG WTF.

TELEPORTS? WTF are u talking about, Kira took her there with Strike Freedom.



Originally posted by: MeroTZ


Originally posted by: Kovash


Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Meer > Lacus.

I can't stand how sugary sweet, super righteous and prim and proper Lacus always is. It is irritating to the point of horrendous torture. SHE'S A POP STAR! WHY DO PEOPLE LISTEN TO HER? Where did she get her serious political stance from, her makeup artist? A popstar celebrity singer girl developing into a genius, infinetley good-hearted do-gooder is sheerBULLSHIT. Fukuda never really explains WHY Lacus is the most perfect person in the world and believes all these things. She just is. An annoying hen.


Lacus' pop-stardom was a political move concocted by her and her father, Lacus can (and does) sing to get her politcal message across. This is why Meer could replace her so easily, since people were used to Lacus' political statements.

Lacus is not at all the weak 'sugery' character people make her out to be, she's a political genius who stands for what she believes, and has thus far converted a whole section of ZAFT and the invincible Kira himself to her philosophy. This meek demeanor is just a facade she puts up to seem innocent.

The prime example of this is the very first time we see it crack, when she had just been handed back to ZAFT by Kira and Rau tries to attck the Archangel, she instantly switches off her meekness and order's Rau down. You can hear it in her voice and see it on her face. Hell, she even does the same to Athrun when he confronts her on PLANT, she's in NO way nieve or sweet, but a cool-headed 'warrior princess' that knows exactly what she's about.

Thank god there are other people out there who understand about Lacus. I hate it when people say things about her being a pop star, or weak, or naive.

In 36 of SEED, she watches her personal guard execute about a dozen people. Heads are being popped mere feet away from her and she doesn't bat an eyelash. She practically steps over their corpses on her way out, and never once acts even a little girlish or squeemish.

She's not the type of be scared of a spider. She's hardcore, and knows what its going to take to get things done, and she knows how to do them.

Note how she chose now to reappear... she knows this move is going to have repurcussions. The whole world is going to be in a confused uproar, which is why I believe she has stood aside until now. However, its obvious that if she had done nothing the damage would have been far more permanent.

I remember someone posting that she would cry or something like that when in battle. That person didnt watch that Phase in GS. Ill be looking for that post, maybe i can find it.


EDIT: OOPS, i think i pressed QUOTE instead of EDIT.

EDIT2: Wait a minute, why there are 3 posts mine? Im pretty sure i pressed edit in past occasions, im doubtful in the last but im pretty sure i pressed EDIT b4.

Double-posts are bad, but triple-posts are absolutely ridiculous. If this keeps up you'll be warned.

GotWoot Moderator

[masamuneehs]

All I can say about Lacus is that I find her annoying and am getting sick of seeing her ideals being spouted and carried on about so much. Her political view is presented as if its were the only right way to think and act in regards to war, and its backed up by being lapped up by Kira, Athrun, and the ArchAngel crew, nearly everyone from the first series, who are in turn fortified with unexplained military hardware. The biggest problem for me is that Destiny seems to be showing us that anyone fighting under Lacus' ideals is a hero, moreso than any enemy they face, and that they (Lacus' side) will always win, always rape a bunch of faceless, unknown grunts and even the new, and powerful, Minerva characters who "haven't seen the light". The fact that Kira and Athrun and even Mwu La Flaga have 'died' only to come back as strong as ever (Waldfeld too, but not as powerful in his return) AND soon throw down on Lacus' side is the exact glorification of gallant warriors that perpetuates and breeds wars by giving hope that "by fighting for the right cause" they too will be glorified.

There is no "right cause". (granted, there may be atrocious crimes against humanity and massacres, which are certainly 'wicked', but simply abstaining from such wicked acts doesn't make the cause righteous)

Everyone thinks they're right. Everyone thinks what they're fighting for is right, even if they have some doubts or don't know the whole picture, they have something to fight for, and that justifies their actions, at least in their own minds. Nobody thinks their cause is wrong. Seed, and also Destiny, (and this is seen in GW Endless Waltz as well) focus greatly on HOW the battles are fought. Things that are presented to the viewer as "the right thing to do" are not trying to kill the enemy and opposing the side that will kill the largest number. The people that do it are invincible flyboys like Heero Yuy, Kira Yamato, who have unshakable faith in their causes (along with the most powerful MS of their time, and superior piloting skills)

Gundam is about war. The two Seed series have expanded on MS abilities, the psychology that a newcomer expiriences, scientific morality, and extremist factions. But it has lost the ability to present opposing sides without bias. EAF is evil, Blue Cosmos & Logos are very evil. ZAFT seems nice, but Dullindal is undoubtedly evil and underhanded. Lacus faction? Where are their flaws? What have their mistakes been, and have they recognized their mistakes? When was the last time they lost? (don't count the battle in Scandinavia, because though Freedom was lost, Kira survived and they accomplished their goal, getting Cagalli back to ORB)

Oh, and since many people are stepping up and saying "Lacus is a master politician" then why did she retire to some obscure orphanage on ORB? Why wasn't her side represented in the peace accord or in the world balance of power after Jakin? Only an irresponsible fool saves the world, then throws it to the wolves and hides away to live a private life.

[Splash!]

maybe its just me but I definitely saw FEAR in Kira's eyes when he was fighting Rey who seemed to be more of a nuisance to Kira than Shinn. This is the first in a very long time that i have seen kira scared and it is a very refreshing change. It is making me feel that despite Fukuda's obsession with Kira, it might actually be quite possible for him to let go and kill him off in the series. That would really make for something in my opinion. Rey and Kira going down fighting. After all, my belief is that if this is indeed going to be the end of the SEED universe, might as well kill of the ultimate coordinator

[Terracosmo]

Lacus sucks. All of you are delusional (or paralyzed by her new black uniform thingy).

@splash: I think the fear came from the fact that Legend reminded him of Providence (or rather, Rau). I liked that part very much as well. It's good to see that Kira has at least fragments of a personality left underneath the "God mode plot device fuck off because I suck" exterior.

[Vandermillion]

Anyone find it a little odd how Shinn smiled as he patted Lunamaria's shoulder towards after the battle? O_o; first time he isn't whining about losing or about anything. Or maybe he's reassuring her that Meyrin could/might/probably is okay. Ah, who cares, like everyone, Lacus is getting to be a pain in the backside, but I liked it how she and Kira left the room. Wished it were some other characters, even Yzak and Shino would do, a little tired of Kira and Lacus, not that I hate them, I'm just a little weary of seeing them forever and ever amen >_<;

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: Vandermillion
Anyone find it a little odd how Shinn smiled as he patted Lunamaria's shoulder towards after the battle? O_o; first time he isn't whining about losing or about anything. Or maybe he's reassuring her that Meyrin could/might/probably is okay. Ah, who cares, like everyone, Lacus is getting to be a pain in the backside, but I liked it how she and Kira left the room. Wished it were some other characters, even Yzak and Shino would do, a little tired of Kira and Lacus, not that I hate them, I'm just a little weary of seeing them forever and ever amen >_<;

I did not think it was odd. I mean if you have ever been taken by complete surprise as Shinn was, it is easy to understand his reactions. Shinn was in shock after that battle with all that happened, it is more like a "I cannot believe what just happened" smile. If you want to see a similar reaction just watch the Bulls playoff game where Jordan plays when he is sick against the Jazz. Karl Malone gives a similar smile as if in disbelief.

Also, I noticed some people that have said Shinn would have shot down Kira if Athuran didn't save him. I agree, but the same can be said of Rey saving shinn when SF was going to disable Destiny (it happens after SF kicks Destiny's hand out of the way). If Rey wouldn't have interferred it is safe to say that SF would have taken off a few limbs from Destiny. If people argue otherwise, keep in mind that Destiny had its back to SF after that hit it took, so Rey saved Shinn!

On another note, it is good to see Kira and Athuran back in action. However, I wish they would get rid of their "no kill" policy.

I loved Shinn's expression after Justice took of Destiny's hand. I just find it hard to believe that Destiny was still able to protect itself from the explosion with its shield when Shinn was in such a state of shock. Usually when your in shock, you cannot move your body.

I believe Athuran is the best pilot out of the four (Kira, Shinn, Rey and Athuran). This is clearly evident in this episode as Athuran quickly damaged Destiny in SEED mode. If there are those that disagree and feel Shinn was not focused and all that good stuff, I will point out a couple of things. Shinn is very focused, as when he took down Freedom and his other enemies, he was all fired up (and even thought about Stella). He was aiming to kill Athuran, no doubts or remorse on his mind at that point. Even before, Shinn was calling Athuran a traitor, so Shinn was giving it his all in order to do what he felt was right. That is why he went through all those memories, it gives him strength to go through with what he must do. Now this has a lot to do with Athuran being the best pilot, since Athuran was under a severe handicap. He was probably around 70% healthy. The dude was not in the physical shape to battle, yet he quickly and effectively disables his opponent. This argument could develop further, but I'll leave it as this for now.

I wish Kira would have more balls and disable his enemies quicker, instead of dicking around. It seems that SF was mostly evading attacks. What the heck is he holding back for? I think he's scared of losing SF, and Lacus probably gave him a serious talk about damaging the new suit. It might still not be insured by State Farm Insurance yet i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif.

[fox_t]

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
I wish Kira would have more balls and disable his enemies quicker, instead of dicking around. It seems that SF was mostly evading attacks. What the heck is he holding back for? I think he's scared of losing SF, and Lacus probably gave him a serious talk about damaging the new suit. It might still not be insured by State Farm Insurance yet .

You must've missed that part of the episode...right after Athrun collapsed and Kira called for the medical team he said, "The good news...I just saved some money on my mobile suit insurance."

[heero]

Anyone noticed Lacus's Doms where killing everyone instead of going by the no killing policy? Wouldn't that make her ideals different from Kira? hmmm
Also I wouldn't say Shinn totally lost to Athrun. After all, Athrun was bleeding (I know he was injured already but he cant be bleeding for no reason so it's probably due to Shinn) and fainted a second after Shinn left. And Shinn only lost a sword... Imagine what's gonna happen if the battle kept going.

[aznimperialx]

Originally posted by: heero

Also I wouldn't say Shinn totally lost to Athrun. After all, Athrun was bleeding (I know he was injured already but he cant be bleeding for no reason so it's probably due to Shinn) and fainted a second after Shinn left. And Shinn only lost a sword... Imagine what's gonna happen if the battle kept going.

What u expect? Athrun didnt heal completely. And the battle probably caused stress and pain.

[Splash!]

Athrun was probably bleeding cause he wounds reopened. After all, there was alot of colliding into shinn during the battle so u can say there was alot of strain on Athrun's body with all those forces being exerted on him in the cockpit.
Also, Athruns being more dominant makes Kira appear less like a God which is good. Kira blocks beams coming at Athrun and Athrun does the same for Kira. Just like how Freedom and Justice are supposed to be working together. Reminds of GS. Not just kira owning everyone.

[masamuneehs]

Athrun did have alot of ownage in this episode, despite being still really fucked up from taking Destiny's sword.

Kira, however, is in perfect shape after surviving a near nuclear reactor explosion from an even closer cockpit hit...

I like how Rey is constantly trying to protect Shinn and trying to figure a way to defeat Kira once and for all.

Oh, and as for Lacus' DOM Troopers killing their enemies, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FIGHT HOWEVER THEY WANT. Firstly, since they're in ZAFT suits, I'm shocked none of their ORB 'allies' didn't shoot them in the back in the confusion of the battle... I'm glad to see someone on Lacus' side still fights like they do, even if its totally unexplained WHY they're on Lacus' side and HOW unsaddened I'll be when they die and its supposed to be tragic and sad, instead of a real Lacus' faction member going down.

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: heero
Anyone noticed Lacus's Doms where killing everyone instead of going by the no killing policy? Wouldn't that make her ideals different from Kira? hmmm
Also I wouldn't say Shinn totally lost to Athrun. After all, Athrun was bleeding (I know he was injured already but he cant be bleeding for no reason so it's probably due to Shinn) and fainted a second after Shinn left. And Shinn only lost a sword... Imagine what's gonna happen if the battle kept going.

First: Lacus, Kira, and friends dont have a no killing policy. They dont like killing, so they avoid it where possible, but by no means do they refuse to do so.

Second: Athrun was fine so long as he was constantly getting adrenaline. he likely could have gone on for quite a while, though the repurcussions afterwards would have been even worse.



EDIT 2: To the guy above me, NO ONE SURVIVED A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION HIT!

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Kira, however, is in perfect shape after surviving a near nuclear reactor explosion from an even closer cockpit hit...

I like how Rey is constantly trying to protect Shinn and trying to figure a way to defeat Kira once and for all

I always thought that he was manipulating him like Gil to do their bidding. It seems he has a grudge against Kira so instead of him going out and trying to kill him, he uses Shinn.



Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Kira, however, is in perfect shape after surviving a near nuclear reactor explosion from an even closer cockpit hit...

If you're talking about the first fight against Freedom and Impulse at the last moment he shut down his N Jammer canceller. Thats how he survived.

[Millenium-Boyz]

LoL i cant believe when arthrun yelled out "STOP IT" shin actually stop pressing the button, which he had pushed halfway down. usually when people are shocked they will press the button ,

[drunkenmaster]

lol yea maybe shin has a little bit of control when it comes to shooting. or maybe he rocongized athurn's voice and naturally obeyed his superior's orders ;p

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
lol yea maybe shin has a little bit of control when it comes to shooting. or maybe he rocongized athurn's voice and naturally obeyed his superior's orders ;palthough technically Athrun's isn't his superior anymore i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[MeroTZ]

Think about this... it would be the equivalent of hearing a ghost. Maybe instead of reacting shocked an hitting the button, he's like a deer in headlights for a minute?

[heero]

Originally posted by: MeroTZ
First: Lacus, Kira, and friends dont have a no killing policy. They dont like killing, so they avoid it where possible, but by no means do they refuse to do so.

The Dom pilots never avoided killing. In fact, they looked more like they were enjoying it. So how is that different from what everyone else were doing...for example Shinn

[Kovash]

Too many posts to quote form, so I'll just post points.



- Shinn isn't 'suddenly' anything. He's a top gun/elite pilot with a bad attitude (which is why people treated him bad). Where as Athrun was a regular pilot chosen for a special mission, later promoted to the 'special forces' and Kira had no experience what-so-ever. If anything, Shinn has the most realistic skills of all the god-characters.

- Kira is the only member of the Clyne faction that has a no-kill policy. The Clyne faction doesn't seem to have any beliefs outside of stopping the fighting. It seems that all Lacus ever tells people, is to consider why they do what they do, and if they don't know or lose faith in their reasons, you're not in the right place.

- How can people say they are tired of Lacus' speeches? She's made a total of 5 in all of SEED history.

- Terra, get off whatever it is that makes you an inerrant Ysak fanboy. Lacus is a great character, so is Kira and Shinn and every other character in the whole series (with the exception of Milly, she makes no sense aside form looking like a Frey Clone.)

[heero]

I'm starting to get confused by this whole storyline lol... Basically Athrun is telling Shinn to stop attacking because war only leads to more war WHILE his allies aka Lacus's Doms are down in orb killing everything in its path...

[drunkenmaster]

err athurn isnt a regular dude that just got promoted. first of all, shin was also a "regular dude" in the begging as was athun. then athurn had a lot of military training....(see him in first gundam seed where he obviously saw his combat skills and his marksmanship with the gun) he is then promoted to special forces because of his obvious skill and his hard work in his training. u start off by saying shin is a top ace gun/elite piolt like he was born that way.... how is that realistic. if u argue that shin had training too, then u concede to my argument of athurn reciving just as much of not more training. bacially, shin and athrun started out the same way and trained in similar ways, athurn just has a good attitude, which is why he is better. i dont understand why athurn's skills arent as realistic as shins when they grew up under zaft (yes shin is from orb but he gew up his military life under zaft) and trained under zaft, athurn seems more godly because he is older and more expirenced (fought more battles and since he was born in zaft and his father was like the big daddy he was trained heavily)and has a better combat personality (although shins raging monkey can be quite formidable). kira yes ill admit his skills are sorta not realistic even tho he is the ultiment coordinator.

[mako]

Originally posted by: Deblas


Originally posted by: drunkenmaster


Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged. You win by immobilizing the unit or killing the pilot. He didn't do either.

He cut of Destiny's right arm... That just disabled his most powerful weapon (Ship sword) and makes it quite hard to attack/defend at the same time.

What damage did Justice suffer to take off Destiny's arm? Apparently none.

Had the fight continued between Shinn and Athran, Shinn would have lost quite easily at that point. He's not in impulse anymore where he can quickly replace the parts that get destroyed.

[Deblas]

He also had that cannon which he uses with his other hand. But lets not get into that again. The discussion I had with drunkenmaster is long gone.

[drunkenmaster]

yes it is over but i would just like to add that the slow cannon would not even get close to hitting athurn. also athurn would prolly take off that arm just as fast lol

[Kovash]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
err athurn isnt a regular dude that just got promoted. first of all, shin was also a "regular dude" in the begging as was athun. then athurn had a lot of military training....(see him in first gundam seed where he obviously saw his combat skills and his marksmanship with the gun) he is then promoted to special forces because of his obvious skill and his hard work in his training. u start off by saying shin is a top ace gun/elite piolt like he was born that way how is that realistic. if u argue that shin had training too, then u concede to my argument of athurn reciving just as much of not more training. bacially, shin and athrun started out the same way and trained in similar ways, athurn just has a good attitude, which is why he is better. i dont understand why athurn's skills arent as realistic as shins when they grew up under zaft and trained under zaft, athurn seems more godly because he is older and more expirenced and has a better combat personality (although shins raging monkey can be quite formidable). kira yes ill admit his skills are sorta not realistic even tho he is the ultiment coordinator.

I'll put it this way, to make it easier to understand.


- Shortly after Junis 7 is hit by an atomic weapon, Athrun applies to Zaft and graduates with his friends, Ysak Deakka and Nicoll. Who are then assigned to Kruuze Squad. Some amount of time passes and Kruuze squad is ordered to take part in capturing the GAT-X series. (this all happens over a period of about 11 months.)

- When Athrun captures Aegis, Kira gets into Strike; At this point, Kira is a fist-time pilot, but still manages to take out two Ginns and hold off Athrun who is much more experienced. The two fight throught the war and eventually, Athrun supposedly kills Kira and is promoted to the 'Special Forces' (whatever that is) and is given a better suit. Kira is given Freedom and the two decide to work together instead of fighting. During a fight over Onogoro island Shinn's family is killed in an explosion, and he goes off to PLANT to apply in ZAFT, though we don't know exactly when he does this. (This takes place over about 3-5 months or so, as far as I can tell.)

- Two years later, Athrun has spent his time walking around with Cagalli and Kira has been shacked up with Lacus. While Shinn has not only applied for ZAFT, but as his FIRST assignment, he is given the most top-secret suit in all of ZAFT and is assigned to the Minerva which has been built soley around supporting Impulse. Shinn is a recognised top-gun though people are surprised the good mannered Rey is not assigned for the suit, because Shinn is a jack-arse. Athrun is then assigned to the minerva after he re-enlists in ZAFT, and is instantly promoted to Faith as part of a poplitical move by Dillundal, though we're not sure why yet - but he promotes Talia Gladis as well, to prevent Athrun from commanding the ship to go wherever he sees fit.

- Minerva goes thorugh a lot of problems, and only special dispensation by Dillundal himself stops Shinn from being court martialed. Shinn is later trained by Rey on a stratagy against freedom, and wins by taking advantage of Kira's unwillingness to kill anyone. (It was acctually ingenious really - Shinn backs Kira into a corner where he has to kill or be killed, then charges in and assaults Freedom directly, without needing to protect himself, because Kira won't kill him. The only problem is, they didn't know where Freedom's Cockpit was - which seems weird since Freedom was built by ZAFT in the first place. ANYWAY.)

- Shinn is later given a better suit, one of two top-of-the-line models, the other is intended for Athrun, though he runs off before he gets to pilot it, so it is given to Rey instead. Shinn and Rey are promoted to Faith because they distingush themselves in the assault against EAF's atlantic fortress.




As you can See, Athrun had experiece but not as much as Shinn when he was promoted to the status of god-pilot. Kira had none, but he was promoted anyway - where as Shinn (who is still not as good as Athrun OR Kira, mind you) had a rediculous ton of training and experience to fall back on. Shinn isn't a bad pilot, just a hothead.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: heero


Originally posted by: MeroTZ
First: Lacus, Kira, and friends dont have a no killing policy. They dont like killing, so they avoid it where possible, but by no means do they refuse to do so.

The Dom pilots never avoided killing. In fact, they looked more like they were enjoying it. So how is that different from what everyone else were doing...for example Shinn

What about it? They don't need to share Lcaus feeling towards killing. Kira is the only character who do not kill in battle, he got the skill to not kill so he does it his way. Andrew for example said himself "i'm not as good as Kira so i will have to kill you"(to the ORB murasame's).

The Dom trooper pilots are veterans and make a living out of being a soldier so it's only natural that they are calm during battle.

[drunkenmaster]

it might have been 11months from graduation to capture of GAT X. but consider the time he is at the academy training. so its actually time at academy+11 months. this is greater than shins 2 years AT MOST of military training. also, athurn has been in many many more battles. eEVEN if shin was at the academy longer(which he probably wasnt) athurn still has much more real life combat expierence which greatly outweighs academy training. remember shins first time in a suit with REAL COMBAT was when he launched at the begging of seed. so shins real life skills are like not much. athurn had real life expirence way before considering he was in all of seed and as long in destiny. as i say, you can read a book about playing basket ball for 20 years, but until you actually play for real, you will suck.even if shin had more expiecene before being commited to a god piolt, that is because the standard goes up considering athurn was the last god piolt. also, even IF shin was promoted to god piolt with more expierence (which he wasnt) the reason why we are arguing isnt who got god piolt faster, it was whos skills as of now as more realistic. getting promoted to god piolt doesnt imporve your skills, it just is a representation of ur skills. if athurn didnt get promoted to top ace, he still would be just as good as he is now. the promotion part means nothing.

[heero]

Originally posted by: PSJ
What about it? They don't need to share Lcaus feeling towards killing. Kira is the only character who do not kill in battle, he got the skill to not kill so he does it his way. Andrew for example said himself "i'm not as good as Kira so i will have to kill you"(to the ORB murasame's).

The Dom trooper pilots are veterans and make a living out of being a soldier so it's only natural that they are calm during battle.

Well the Dom troopers are just following Lacus's orders. That's what Im trying to say. I just dont see what she is doing is any different from Zaft. If Lacus believes the same thing as Kira and Athrun "war only leads to more war" then her Doms shouldnt be down there killing everything in their path which is exactly the same thing Shinn does. And then Athrun shows up telling Shinn to stop all this madness WHILE Lacus's soldiers are down in orb killing...hmmmm

[KapsLocked]

Yeah, I was under the impression that the DOM troopers were more like mercenaries who liked the Clyne Faction.

[romancing_xaga]

I think they actually support the late chairman, Mr. Clyne. Of course, if they support him, they support her. Or rather, they were rebels, who were adopted by Lacus, I mean, she's crazy!

[KapsLocked]

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
I think they actually support the late chairman, Mr. Clyne. Of course, if they support him, they support her. Or rather, they were rebels, who were adopted by Lacus, I mean, she's crazy!

Yeah. Mr. Clyne = Lacus = Clyne Faction.

[Splash!]

@PSJ didn andy say that when he was trying to protect cagalli, he meant cagalli would have to get off the battlefield since he couldnt protect her as well anymore, not being as good as kira rite ???

[Wizard054]

SEED-fansubs is out

[Curium]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
remember shins first time in a suit with REAL COMBAT was when he launched at the begging of seed. so shins real life skills are like not much.

Just FYI, that isn't completely accurate. He fought some in Destiny Astray when he was on a training mission in Impulse with the test pilots for Gaia, Abyss, and Chaos. Since those 3 were allies it is obviously before they were stolenin GSD ep 1. However, I don't know exactly how long before that was.

[bigdaddy843]

thanks for the report

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: heero


Originally posted by: PSJ
What about it? They don't need to share Lcaus feeling towards killing. Kira is the only character who do not kill in battle, he got the skill to not kill so he does it his way. Andrew for example said himself "i'm not as good as Kira so i will have to kill you"(to the ORB murasame's).

The Dom trooper pilots are veterans and make a living out of being a soldier so it's only natural that they are calm during battle.

Well the Dom troopers are just following Lacus's orders. That's what Im trying to say. I just dont see what she is doing is any different from Zaft. If Lacus believes the same thing as Kira and Athrun "war only leads to more war" then her Doms shouldnt be down there killing everything in their path which is exactly the same thing Shinn does. And then Athrun shows up telling Shinn to stop all this madness WHILE Lacus's soldiers are down in orb killing...hmmmm

It's all about how a person justifies his killing, Lacus and the Dom troopers protected ORB and saved it from being destroyed once again that's probably how Lacus justified her soldiers killing.

No one is really better than the other in Destiny, the thing is how they justify their actions. It will make diffrent people believe in diffrent factions. Blue Cosmos is strongly against gene manipulation yet the do it to kids to be able to fight ZAFT. ZAFT and Dullindal always shoots of his mouth about a peaceful world and that the logos makes profits of building war material and therefore don't want the war to end, yet he pumps out more war material than anyone else.

@Splash: If i could understand what you wrote i might have answered. Use proper english and don't come with the "i write fast" argument, we all write fast.

[Enderz]

I think Zaft will lose many soldiers now when lucus is back

[kenren]

just watched seed's sub .. Phase 43 by SEED (http://seed.eatshoe.com/torrents/[SEED-Fansubs]%20Gundam%20SEED%20Destiny%20-%2043.avi.torrent)

XD...kinda disappointed when destiny's hand was cut off ...
looking forward to the next episode again... ^_^V

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: PSJ

What about it? They don't need to share Lcaus feeling towards killing. Kira is the only character who do not kill in battle, he got the skill to not kill so he does it his way. Andrew for example said himself "i'm not as good as Kira so i will have to kill you"(to the ORB murasame's).

I have two things to point out. Firstly, PSJ, I disagree that Kira is the only one with the no kill policy. Athuran too is a "no kill policy" pilot. If you believe I'm wrong, just look back at the episodes and let's count the number of suits he's disabled. And yes, one may argue (and I would need to see the evidence) that he may have killed a few pilots, but I believe if that was the case it was because it was necessary (just as Kira does the same thing). But for the most part when Athuran is piloting he just disables suits the same way Kira does.

Secondly, I have read on different forums that Shinn actually caused Athuran some damage (in order to defend that Shinn was not completely owned) and that is the reason why Athuran was bleeding afterwards. I believe that statement is completely FALSE and WRONG. Destiny/Shinn did not damage IJ, their attacks were deflected and evaded by IJ. The only logical reason for Athuran to be bleeding is that he reopened his wounds. How and when are the questions. Well, go to the part where Destiny is going to shoot SF, and what does Athuran do? IJ comes down at an incredible speed and there is a tremendous impact between Destiny and IJ. Now people, let's think about this with some sound reasoning. Let us first consider IJ is coming down at an incredible speed. Now, think of a car accident and the speed at impact, thus the force at which a person is experiencing (yes now we're getting into physics). Destiny and IJ impacted at a great speed without AIR BAGS or MS INSURANCE ( i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif ), sorry just had to throw that lame joke in. This is the most logical explanation as to why Athuran was bleeding (in my opinion). Look back at the episode and you'll c that both pilots are cringing/in pain/ or whatever after impact. So for those who say Shinn did some damage of his own, please do not distort what you see.

[Splash!]

@PSJ what i wanted to say was i dont quite remember andy saying to the murasames that he would have to kill them since he was not as good as kira. He did however tell cagalli that he was not good enough to protect for a long period of time so she would have to get off the battlefield.

@Strike Freedom : My thoughts exactly on why Athrun was bleeding

[PSJ]

He said it really to himself but i remember him saying that he wasn't as good as Kira so he had to kill.

[Motteh]

PSJ is right about that, Andy didn't say that to anyone in specific and he certainly had no com line open to "enemy" suits i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif but he did claim that because he's not as good as Kira he has to destroy/kill the suits in order to protect the ArchAngel/Cagalli

also about Athrun bleeding, ever had a small cut somewhere on the palm of your hand? ever had to grab something when it was healing? the stress the body is experiencing by certain actions causes weakpoints to give away,
and seriously flying at such speeds and coming to such abrups stops puts some serious pressure on the body, hence not more then logical that Athrun's healing wounds were torn open again

[heero]

Originally posted by: PSJ
It's all about how a person justifies his killing, Lacus and the Dom troopers protected ORB and saved it from being destroyed once again that's probably how Lacus justified her soldiers killing.

No one is really better than the other in Destiny, the thing is how they justify their actions. It will make diffrent people believe in diffrent factions. Blue Cosmos is strongly against gene manipulation yet the do it to kids to be able to fight ZAFT. ZAFT and Dullindal always shoots of his mouth about a peaceful world and that the logos makes profits of building war material and therefore don't want the war to end, yet he pumps out more war material than anyone else.

I still find it contradicting. Lacus and her frds are telling people how bad war is but on the other hand, she is saying she is not wrong to join the killing because she has good reasons to do so. If that is true then no one should question Shinn's actions because we all know why he is in war in the first place.

[SOLDIER [X]]

self defense is a greater excuse than invasion. If people aren't skilled enough to disable enemies like kira then they have to kill them, come on I can't believe you guys are spouting off about NKP that kira has and you expect every joe somebody to have the same capacity to do so?

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom


I have two things to point out. Firstly, PSJ, I disagree that Kira is the only one with the no kill policy. Athuran too is a "no kill policy" pilot. If you believe I'm wrong, just look back at the episodes and let's count the number of suits he's disabled. And yes, one may argue (and I would need to see the evidence) that he may have killed a few pilots, but I believe if that was the case it was because it was necessary (just as Kira does the same thing). But for the most part when Athuran is piloting he just disables suits the same way Kira does.

i'm not sure if he killed this guy or not but check out episode 28 around the 4:45 mark on the cellphone^2 sub

[Kovash]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
it might have been 11months from graduation to capture of GAT X. but consider the time he is at the academy training. so its actually time at academy+11 months. this is greater than shins 2 years AT MOST of military training.

Small correction - Athrun specifically states that he joined ZAFT AFTER the Junius 7 bombing, so he's spent less than 11 months in the acadamy, assuming the theift of the GAT-X wasn't his first mission.

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL


Originally posted by: Strike Freedom


I have two things to point out. Firstly, PSJ, I disagree that Kira is the only one with the no kill policy. Athuran too is a "no kill policy" pilot. If you believe I'm wrong, just look back at the episodes and let's count the number of suits he's disabled. And yes, one may argue (and I would need to see the evidence) that he may have killed a few pilots, but I believe if that was the case it was because it was necessary (just as Kira does the same thing). But for the most part when Athuran is piloting he just disables suits the same way Kira does.

i'm not sure if he killed this guy or not but check out episode 28 around the 4:45 mark on the cellphone^2 sub

@ AtHRunOwNZall

I saw what you were saying in this episode, but to be honest I c Athuran disabling a bunch of suits. There is an instance a little after 4:45, closer to 5:00 that it looks like he destroys that Orb suit, but then you only c the arm and wing fly off. Usually if the pilot dies they show the pilot in the MS while it is exploding. Therefore, I must conclude that he did not kill anyone in that time frame you showed me. However, this is my opinion and subject to debate. But that is just from what I have perceived. It just goes to show u that in this episode he does follow a "no kill" policy. To be honest, Kira and Athuran are too lenient as war pilots i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: heero


Originally posted by: PSJ
It's all about how a person justifies his killing, Lacus and the Dom troopers protected ORB and saved it from being destroyed once again that's probably how Lacus justified her soldiers killing.

No one is really better than the other in Destiny, the thing is how they justify their actions. It will make diffrent people believe in diffrent factions. Blue Cosmos is strongly against gene manipulation yet the do it to kids to be able to fight ZAFT. ZAFT and Dullindal always shoots of his mouth about a peaceful world and that the logos makes profits of building war material and therefore don't want the war to end, yet he pumps out more war material than anyone else.

I still find it contradicting. Lacus and her frds are telling people how bad war is but on the other hand, she is saying she is not wrong to join the killing because she has good reasons to do so. If that is true then no one should question Shinn's actions because we all know why he is in war in the first place.

Okey good for you then. I never tried to make all of you love Lacus and her ideals or something i just spoke what was on my mind. To answer the Shinn thing you only need to read the post you qouted.

@Strike Freedom: It's true that Athrun also got a no kill policy but he has barely done anyhting in this show, Andy has done more piloting than him i just forgot about Athrun.

[Marcis]

Ahtrun's wounds opened again because he was'nt fully healed and also because of G-forces introduced by mobile suit suddenly accelerating and deccelerating. You can't work your body "at full power" when you aren't healed, because wounds might open and you are in trouble.
Athrun's fighting abilities at the moment are surpressed because of his wounds. He might be grounded for episode of two.

Kiras' "no kill policy" limits his abilities against Shinn, because he as to watch out not to aim for cockpit for instance... He essentially fights with one hand tied behind his back to speak literally.
Shinn does not has this limitation and also he knows that Kira won't go for a kill. So he has no worry about that. Meh, he was really surprised when he received point-blank railgun blast. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Shinn also goes into blind rage when fighting which is a minus. When in rage you can't think clearly, of course you press on and on like beast but you completely drop strategy. When fighting Kira you need strategy - Impulse did beat Freedom only because Shinn and Rey analyzed Kiras' tactics and came up with a plan.

Ray looked extremely displeased when he saw SF. Kira wasn't that pleased to see Legend either.

Ray did not let Luna fight because he knew Shinn has feelings for her and he promised to protect her. Recall that in her first fight in Impulse Shinn blocked stray shot at her and told Luna that she's careless.
Having Luna arround while battling Kira would put Shinn in disadvantage beause he would keep an eye on her. You just can't devote yourself to a fight with Kira while also protecting Lunamaria.

[Death13a]

Marcis why would Luna need protection from Kira. It not likely that Kira would kill her purposly. Unlike Shinn, Kira thinks where he shoots and at who.

[PSJ]

Shinn does think "Where is the enemy? There he is! *shoot shoot shoot* *Anti ship sword launching attack*"

[Phoenix20578]

That's Shinn in a nutshell. The only other thoughts he has are about Mayu.

[Marcis]

Originally posted by: Death13a
Marcis why would Luna need protection from Kira. It not likely that Kira would kill her purposly. Unlike Shinn, Kira thinks where he shoots and at who.
Not from Kira, i mean there was a battle with Orb going on. Anybody could attack Luna.
What i meant is - once Luna is out on battle Shinn would look after her. Sort of. And that would distract him from fighting Kira.