Why Gundam Seed Destiny has Failed on So Many Levels

[Miro69]

I love Gundam, and I love what the producers have put forth. Up until watching Gundam Seed Destiny that is.

Gundam Seed was a nice treat that completely revamped the Gundam series. It offered a crisp storyline, a beautiful space opera, eye candy, and some solid characters.

A sequel had been announced by the Mitsuo Fukuda and a few months later, Gundam SEED Destiny. My initial expectations for it was to be a sequel of equal greatness to that of Gundam Seed. 38 episodes later, I have come to realize that Gundam Seed Destiny did not meet those expectations, but it has also become one of the worst series I have ever watched.

The reasons why this has become such will be explained in three-fold.

1)Character Development is one major disappointment. Up until the mid-20s, one had no clue who the main character was. Or even if there was a main protagonist. Some parts of the story revolved around Athrun, and some around Shinn (Fukuda's counter to the whiny Kira that people complained about earlier). The cast is huge, and that persists to be one of the main problems this series has suffered from. Too much characters to talk about, too little time to provide each of their own viewpoints. But because of this, some of the older characters have also degraded.

Athrun's character started off strong and then gradually degraded from the hero that we knew in Gundam Seed. In almost all of the mid-20s to the late 30 episodes, he was indecisive in his actions. He was always told off, and he made no attempt to speak his own mind. His last resort was to run away from it all... took him damn long enough.

Mwu's death was cheapened in his revival to Neo.

Cagalli, once a head strong person, did nothing but cry for ten episodes straight, and was almost married to Representative Yuuna. I mean what the fuck are the producers thinking. The transition from head strong to careless is so aggravating.

Kira makes a surprising transition from whiny child to 'god-mode' Kira.

Concerning the new cast, I've also had problems.

Rey, once a light-hearted kid, completely changes in the last five episodes with a new voice and a completely new demeanor in his attitude. He almost represents Kuruuze.

Meer, a Lacus Clone, that does nothing but offer fanservice. And fill in the void for Dullindal's plans.

Last of all, I come to Shinn, perhaps one of the worst ideas fathomable ever to come from the Gundam series. His character is rather conflicted with that of a soldier trying his best, to that of a kid doing what he wants.

His arrogance and his ego inflates with each passing episode that wishing for him to die has become flowing through my mind for some time now. Normally, the role of the main character is the win the audiences' side, so that we the viewers can symphathize with what he/she is trying to accomplish. However, if Shinn is the protagonist, then Fukuda has FAILED to make him one because I feel no sympathy for him. My dislike for him continues, but I will limit myself to just this.

2) The Music

One word can describe my feelings toward the music that GSD has put forth. Mediocre at best-- and that's rather generous. The musical score within the series started off shaky at first, but gradually it got better. I could remember there was classical music in scene where nuclear missiles were being deployed. It did NOT fit at all, but the music gradually got better and fit better. I may be a bit biased on this issue, but I much prefered the music to GSeed where everything had a catchy tune and was instant love, not something that you had to build on. This was the case for me in many of these OPs & Eds. That may be the only thing good about the series so far, because the Opening and Ending music has gotten progressively WORSER. After hearing the 4th Op and End, I have made myself clear that I will fast-foward through the op the next ten somewhat episodes so that my ears don't bleed each time I watch a new GSD episode.

[Edit: Insert songs are added. Music is better.]

3) The Cash-Cow Machine that is Gundam Seed Destiny

As you may or may not have realized, GSD has become nothing but one giant cash cow. The introduction of multiple Gundams, the using of excessive fan service and the immortality of characters bring major sales, and that has what this series has become. This series exploits that fact so much, with so much different suits, the destruction of some JUST to bring out new ones, that it has in fact become annoying. Although this shouldn't be anything new in terms of Gundam, GSD has clearly passed the lines they set in Wing and Gundam Seed. I KNOW there are other Gundams still that have yet to be released, but I will refrain from posting these spoilers.


Despite all this, I'm a hardcore Gundam fan and I still have hopes that this series can improve, but so far things are looking pretty bleak. I will continue to watch, no matter what crap Fukuda has put forth. The plot (political intrigue) and eye candy has been generous, but that's perhaps the only driving forces that keeps this series together.

EDIT: I'm interested in what you people have thought about this series so far. Any input would be nice, as long as you have something productive to offer.

[PSJ]

You could have wrote it on a paper at home. Why don't you warn us at the top that this post shouldn't be read? I just wasted a bit of time.

[Terracosmo]

I don't really agree with you.
You have some valid points, particularly about the whole Mwu surviving gig, but generally it's up to opinion I guess.

Personally I enjoy the whole confusion about who the main character is, and I like Shinn.
Also, I don't really care about the fact that GS/D is a "cash-cow machine" as long as the show itself is good.

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: PSJ
You could have wrote it on a paper at home. Why don't you warn us at the top that this post shouldn't be read? I just wasted a bit of time.


I appreciate your valuable input. Now if you're done wasting my time, please go off and read something else. There IS a topic and a topic description, you know.

[DDBen]

I have to agree about certain characters where the rewrites they did were just plain stupid. There is no reason to make characters basically start over where they were halfway through GS namely Calgari and Athrun. Also the you watched him blow up but he's ok thing has just gone way to far considering in GSD it was used with Kira, Athrun, Sting, Stellar, Lunamaria and Neo just off the top of my head. I can buy a lot but come on Neo was shown dropping about 300 yards and casually gets layed on the ground while his mobile suit blows up. This doesn't even include the resurrected Mwu.

That aside I have to say the music hasn't even come close to that of GS. Opening 4 is terrible beyond belief and most of the songs rather then being truely good had to grow on you. Given there were a few highlights but overall its well below what GS taught me to expect.

Oh and one final note the amount of clip shows has been absolutely abominable even if we don't have to suffer through another one between 4 clip shows and MANY episodes starting with footage from the previous episode as well as opening 4 being a rehash of opening 3 with about 10 new scenes just overall these have disappointed me greatly. Please note I hate clip shows above and beyond anything else in anime.

[NM]

Originally posted by: Miro69
Rey, once a light-hearted kid, completely changes in the last five episodes with a new voice and a completely new demeanor in his attitude. He almost represents Kuruuze.

Meer, a Lacus Clone, that does nothing but offer fanservice. And fill in the void for Dullindal's plans.

Last of all, I come to Shinn, perhaps one of the worst ideas fathomable ever to come from the Gundam series. His character is rather conflicted with that of a soldier trying his best, to that of a kid doing what he wants.

His arrogance and his ego inflates with each passing episode that wishing for him to die has become flowing through my mind for some time now. Normally, the role of the main character is the win the audiences' side, so that we the viewers can symphathize with what he/she is trying to accomplish. However, if Shinn is the protagonist, then Fukuda has FAILED to make him one because I feel no sympathy for him. My dislike for him continues, but I will limit myself to just this.

I can't really agree with you on your view of the characters. Rey was a good person before because he felt Athrun was on Dullindal's side at the time. And now all of a sudden, Athrun is defying so its only natural for Rey to feel like that. And you never know, Rey could be the new Rau, seeing as how its possible he is Rau's clone or possibly even his son.

As for Meer, what you said is what Dullindal wants for her to do. If you remember what Athrun said, Dullindal wants a Lacus in his plans. Having his own Lacus means he can boost the moral of his troops and citizens at any time, since Lacus has that certain ability to do so.

And finally Shinn, how can you not sympathize with him now? In the beginning, I hated him just as much as you do because of his attitude. But not only did he lose his family, he lost someone he was in love with and an episode ago, he lost two of his comrades. Just imagine how much pain he was in, to be responsible for killing his teammates, even though he didn't want to.

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: NarutoMaster

And finally Shinn, how can you not sympathize with him now? In the beginning, I hated him just as much as you do because of his attitude. But not only did he lose his family, he lost someone he was in love with and an episode ago, he lost two of his comrades. Just imagine how much pain he was in, to be responsible for killing his teammates, even though he didn't want to.

he lost his family, because of the war, so he blames everything on orb. He lost Stellar because not only was he unable to stop her, she almost killed him. He was blinded by 'love' and so his work as a soldier, conflicted with his life. Instead, he chose to follow his own path, thinking he could stop her. He did not acknowledge her as an enemy, which is why he is so inexperienced.

I really don't think Shinn 'killing' Athrun and Meyrin was as much as a loss as Stellar was. Of course he felt doubt, what one human wouldn't? But afterwards, there was rage in his eyes, and after he turned seed, he felt no more remorse. He killed, like he was told to. His part as a soldier appears there.

This is why I hate him so much. He is trying to play that role of a soldier but he is inexperienced. However, his faults are right'ed, if you can say that, by Dullindal, and because of that, not only does he get away with everything, but his ego and arrogance inflates. It's become rather irritating to see him succeed with his own agenda and not get blamed for anything. He thinks his actions are righteous in every endeavor he partakes.

[naruto-kira]

gundam seed destiny haven't really fail in that much lv, if..... they have enuff time to explain everything in 50 episodes which i dout, but each episode got alot of battle scene's, interesting so far. but the bad part is the character inconsistance. because of that fans wants to c more of kira and less or shinn...even tho shinn is Main Character.(thats cause alot of confusion because of the fans demands) people want to related themselves with a good role model. not a immature person thats goes berserk....

[KapsLocked]

I agree with about the Gundams blowing up thing. They could have come up with a different way of making it seem that they died/escaped! I mean, they're just exploiting one of the most dramatic plot twists of GS when it seemed like Kira and Athrun killed each other! >_<

I still like it though, and I'm looking forward to what happens next. Just as long as they tie up all the loose ends.

[chubakka]

I think I would have to agree with most of what Miro69 had to say about the series so far. Don't mean to stir up the waters with those of you who think that this series is currently better than Gundam Seed. The only thing that I do not agree with Miro is the music.. The only bad one so far for me was the 4th Opening...and nothing else..

It as if I've been thinking exactly what Miro69 was thinking....he just put it down in a post before I did. One thing that really bothers me is how the director keeps on trying to convince you that his protagonists somehow survive everything. I mean. Kira escaping the Aegis while it was clamped to him, and he had no time to get out.....was kind of stretching it. Mwu's death at the end for me was actually a great point in the series, I absolutely loved his character....he was probably one of the only constant "solid" guys that drove the first series. What he has been reduced to now....is just ....a shame to what he stood for. And Shinn....not only failing once, but twice with his cockpit stabs....ugh, I hope they changed the sword guidance system for him intentionally.

Seed was all about the brother-ship of Kira and Athrun, and it drove the whole series because of this "hope" they gave you in their bond....and they delivered. It did have its downfalls, like Fllay....

I'm not saying that Destiny is just bad.. It could rectify itself in my eyes in the next 11 or so episodes....its just that I was disappointed because the only reason why I watch it is to see what Athrun and Kira do. I could careless what happens to Shinn, if he changes or not....or his gang....except for Lunamaria, she's just....so awesome. There is no doubt this series is all about Shinn. It might be just my opinion, but no mature or rational person would think like he does in the situations he's been in, and therefore I can't see how anyone can connect with the person on any kind of level. But it could also be looked at as a good thing since no one can possibly predict how he's going to behave or act in a given situation. He's just a container for suspense for me, bad suspense.

Miro, you aren't the only one.

I do respect all the others opinions though, they are entitled to theirs as much as I'm entitled to mine.. So with that said, lets just enjoy the rest of the series! I just love Gundam and all its wonderful MS's...if only they made a full length feature film using the Gundam theme with CG mixed with traditional cell....like Appleseed was....oh that would be great! They can do it with Macross or Gundam or anything...I just think they could do much better with eye-candy Epic Space Battles than Star Wars....does anyone else think this?

[Sano]

Hm, I'm starting to miss the Universal Century Gundam Universe. Gundam Seed started off as a show that I wasn't too excited about, but it got a lot better in the end. GSD doesn't focus as much on the original main characters as much. Despite this, it really focused on Athuran for a long time. The indecisiveness of Athuran and Cagali in beginning to half way of the show was really annoying at best in many parts. As for Shinn, perhaps Fukuda wanted the protagonist to degenerate in character (ex: when Shinn starts losing his mental judgement, and is used by many ppl), as opposed to the tradition Gundam Heroes who build in character in a positive way. Perhaps this purpose of GSD is to show that even the main characters are victim of mankind's "evil" nature, despite all their fighting in Gundam Seed. As the saying goes, "the best laid plans of mice and men tend to go awry."

[john_doe_107]

in GSD, we have more shinn scenes than we do Kira, so there is no disputing who's the lead of the series.
about the opening, yeah sure shinn looks overshadowed, but i don't think that's any indication who the main protagonist of the series is
remember the last two openings of GS we had kira and athrun in the same scene towards the end, though athrun is a main character- the main focus is still kira.

i feel it is a great idea that the main character of GSD is someone who IS NOT likable and completely opposes the heroes of its prequel. i am sure the producers and directors did this intentionally.
what i am not happy about, is how cheaply the grunt suits die..it really really annoys me.

as for character development, Neo being Mwu is cheap..but his character hasn't been developed yet, and judging from the last opening, i'm starting to get excited that he's back.
regarding character development, i really do feel that these people are human beings rather than god-like characters who colour the world in black and white.
yeah sure its sad to see athrun and cagalli being so feeble, lunamaria kissing the guy who killed her sister and shinn and his angst. but wouldn't you do the same if you were in the same situation?

as for the gundams themselves..well its pretty cheap that they are reusing old concepts and only slightly making them better. but hey, we have an idea what the suits can do already, all the more reason why we're so excited that upgrades of them are coming up. if the director came up with an all new gundam design for kira and athrun, i bet you there wouldn't be much talk about them as we are having with IJ and SF.

the music in GSD is good..except for the first opening i thought. ignited is so bad..but overall, they've tried to break away from GS and make GSD something while in the breath of GS, but a bit different. if we had direct copies of style in GSD from GS, i would be really disappointed.

overall, i love GSD, my only problem is the grunts being sooooooo dumb..but overall, it satisfies my need for an anime war drama and so much more.

[romancing_xaga]

Originally posted by: Miro69
I love Gundam, and I love what the producers have put forth. Up until watching Gundam Seed Destiny that is.

Gundam Seed was a nice treat that completely revamped the Gundam series. It offered a crisp storyline, a beautiful space opera, eye candy, and some solid characters.

A sequel had been announced by the Mitsuo Fukuda and a few months later, Gundam SEED Destiny. My initial expectations for it was to be a sequel of equal greatness to that of Gundam Seed. 38 episodes later, I have come to realize that Gundam Seed Destiny did not meet those expectations, but it has also become one of the worst series I have ever watched.

The reasons why this has become such will be explained in three-fold.

1)Character Development is one major disappointment. Up until the mid-20s, one had no clue who the main character was. Or even if there was a main protagonist. Some parts of the story revolved around Athrun, and some around Shinn (Fukuda's counter to the whiny Kira that people complained about earlier). The cast is huge, and that persists to be one of the main problems this series has suffered from. Too much characters to talk about, too little time to provide each of their own viewpoints. But because of this, some of the older characters have also degraded.

Athrun's character started off strong and then gradually degraded from the hero that we knew in Gundam Seed. In almost all of the mid-20s to the late 30 episodes, he was indecisive in his actions. He was always told off, and he made no attempt to speak his own mind. His last resort was to run away from it all... took him damn long enough.

Mwu's death was cheapened in his revival to Neo.

Cagalli, once a head strong person, did nothing but cry for ten episodes straight, and was almost married to Representative Yuuna. I mean what the fuck are the producers thinking. The transition from head strong to careless is so aggravating.

Kira makes a surprising transition from whiny child to 'god-mode' Kira.

Concerning the new cast, I've also had problems.

Rey, once a light-hearted kid, completely changes in the last five episodes with a new voice and a completely new demeanor in his attitude. He almost represents Kuruuze.

Meer, a Lacus Clone, that does nothing but offer fanservice. And fill in the void for Dullindal's plans.

Last of all, I come to Shinn, perhaps one of the worst ideas fathomable ever to come from the Gundam series. His character is rather conflicted with that of a soldier trying his best, to that of a kid doing what he wants.

His arrogance and his ego inflates with each passing episode that wishing for him to die has become flowing through my mind for some time now. Normally, the role of the main character is the win the audiences' side, so that we the viewers can symphathize with what he/she is trying to accomplish. However, if Shinn is the protagonist, then Fukuda has FAILED to make him one because I feel no sympathy for him. My dislike for him continues, but I will limit myself to just this.

2) The Music

One word can describe my feelings toward the music that GSD has put forth. Sub-par-- and that's rather generous. The musical score within the series started off shaky at first, but gradually it got better. I could remember there was classical music in scene where nuclear missiles were being deployed. It did NOT fit at all, but the music gradually got better and fit better. That may be the only thing good about the series so far, because the Opening and Ending music has gotten progressively WORSER. After hearing the 4th Op and End, I have made myself clear that I will fast-foward through the op the next ten somewhat episodes so that my ears don't bleed each time I watch a new GSD episode. Another thing I'm waiting for is an insert song. Gundam Seed had 'Meteor' and 'Wheel of Destiny'. GSD has nothing so far.

3) The Cash-Cow Machine that is Gundam Seed Destiny

As you may or may not have realized, GSD has become nothing but one giant cash cow. The introduction of multiple Gundams, the using of excessive fan service and the immortality of characters bring major sales, and that has what this series has become. This series exploits that fact so much, with so much different suits, the destruction of some JUST to bring out new ones, that it has in fact become annoying. Although this shouldn't be anything new in terms of Gundam, GSD has clearly passed the lines they set in Wing and Gundam Seed. I KNOW there are other Gundams still that have yet to be released, but I will refrain from posting these spoilers.


Despite all this, I'm a hardcore Gundam fan and I still have hopes that this series can improve, but so far things are looking pretty bleak. I will continue to watch, no matter what crap Fukuda has put forth. The plot (political intrigue) and eye candy has been generous, but that's perhaps the only driving forces that keeps this series together.

EDIT: I'm interested in what you people have thought about this series so far. Any input would be nice, as long as you have something productive to offer.



ill tell you now, yes..GSD should not have existed in the first place. If they just concluded GS peacefully, without anymore openings to further plots, then we probably wont need this sequel.

Well I like the new series now, the characters are somehow off balance but "they" are working on it, pariticularly on Shinn. The thing i dislike so much is the fact that some parts of the plot were just rip off from GS, so somehow we can predict what the hecks gonna happen next. Anyway..no beefs or bones to pick with you or any fans..just saying..but they could've show'd more of minor characters like yzak and d, and what the hell happen to Sai?

[Dannynonsense]

in the end no series can completely satisfy everyone since its a handfull of people (maybe not) that do all the stuff for the show, but in the end i like to think of gs as being different because it use's a different method to tell the story also it show's the different sides of character. also i think rey was always a bad guy just no need for him to act pyscho at the begining which makes sense since he's duillandal's partner in crime since the beginging

and lastly has anyone found lineart for akatsuki

[chitgoks]

gsd had some good parts and bad..

this series is supposedly like a 26 ep series. there were lots of recaps from previous episodes which only made the present episode short. not only recaps but flashbacks which is annoying since ive already seen them before, no need to prolong the flashback.

would have been nice if they described how each character escaped death. but well, this is anime.. scifi.. toon.. so anything can happen...

i dont like the latest opening, it sounds gay.i like the 3rd ending tho, it's sentimental ..

[Miro69]

i may have gone a bit overboard on the music part. yes, i've found it out to be that the music does grow on you eventually, but the music presented so forth in GSD is no where close to the greatness of that in GSeed. I think it's because of my undying love for GSeed that I've criticized the music in GSD so harshly.

[john_doe_107]

Originally posted by: chitgoks

i dont like the latest opening, it sounds gay.i like the 3rd ending tho, it's sentimental ..

yup.. that's my favourite ending.. very emotive..but the lyrics don't make sense.. pity ain't it?

destiny's got the best ED songs ever..they're really really good.

the latest opening isn't gay.. guys repeat after me:
"EMBRACE CHANGE, ACCEPT UNCONVENTIONALISM"

variety is the spice of life remember

[fox_t]

In regards to the cash cow statement, many would argue that GS was the samething as it was more or less a remake of the original series.

[Guardian_2000]

I think people dislike alot of GSD's music since there are so many traces of SEED in it. Its not new, fresh, inspiring except for a few songs. SEED's music is classic and you can't knock that since it started the new music. Sorta like how so many people love Just Communication from wing. For the most part I consider Destiny to be an extension of SEED along with the introduction to the next SEED. The pacing, the way the show has been presented from the beginning it makes for a great mid section to whats coming around the corner. Alot of people criticize the way characters have turned up after the last two years. I'm not sure why everyone is shocked but then again to a younger audience I can sorta understand some confusion. Two years is along time for things to occur and they have all happened within reason.

Rey's transition isn't something thats on a quick whim but part of his character and his origins. They don't explain it in black and white. But they didn't do that with Rau either till the very end. Shinn to me is this really interesting side character. Hes been presented as a leading side character from the getgo. With the latest opening this position is only cemented into our minds further with the final scene placing Kira in the lead since Destiny continues his story and then pursues the two other characters stories for Athrun and now Shinn. Its looking more and more like a big setup for the next series. I think its pretty cool and they're doing a decent job.

[MrTicTac]

i only read fragments of the first post, and nothing after that so my fault if i miss something

"crisp storyline"

pretty much all gundam series (except G gundam and SD gundam, maybe) revolve around a youth finding a gundam and his adventure after,, and racism between people, either newtypes vs oldtypes, naturals vs spacenoids etc etc

not that its bad,, i love this basis as a style for the gundam series'

"god-mode kira"

thats a bit of an exaggeration,, cause he did lose to shinn, so he's not god, and he became "god-like" in SEED practically after getting freedom he started to be able to control his SEED powers,, (except part with fllay in the end where he got all pissed)

"Cagalli"

she's suppose to be strong as the form leader's daughter etc, but damn she's not perfect and she's young as hell,, wat do u want her to do >__> destiny is showing her weaknesses too

"Athrun"

Athrun is still unsure about wat he believes in thats why he jumped around a bit and didnt say anything, but now i think he's decided what he wants, i found it interesting to see how athrun handled everything and his transition growing

"Rey"

he's prolly almost always have been a pawn to dullindal, thats why he was so happy in the early episodes when he was praised by dullindal, rey has been scheming all this time and now he shows it, and its not subtle anymore

"Meer"

She's just got lacus makeup, wig etc not really a clone, fanservice? dont think so,, i'd point at stellar, luna and meyrin as fanservice, and same thing as rey she's all manipulated by dullindal


"The plot (political intrigue) and eye candy has been generous, but that's perhaps the only driving forces that keeps this series together."


I think the thing that all gundam series' got going that makes it good is its showing both sides of war, racism, human personality and makes the viewers realize some thingsText

[fox_t]

I just wanted to point out that I believe that Mwu's apparent revival obeys all death laws in GS/D. Sure Strive disintegrated, but the destruction of an MS never means death. So by SEED rules, he never actually died.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: fox_t
I just wanted to point out that I believe that Mwu's apparent revival obeys all death laws in GS/D. Sure Strive disintegrated, but the destruction of an MS never means death. So by SEED rules, he never actually died.

This is true in cases where they don't see the shattered helmet of the guy who dies floating in space. Thats not exactly something survivable.

[DragonBladeX]

Then again Gundam Seed has drilled one thing into our head. If the show does not show a cockpit of the character in question getting sliced, exploding or the whole MS exploding around him/her, it is guranteed that the character has survived to fight another day. They could show a scene of scattered parts belonging to the character(except body) and he/she would just pop up again.

Grunts are exempted from the above logic. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Edit: Of course the show has failed to explain how Mwu managed to find air without his helmut....in space!!! For the helmut to get into space it has to go somewhere out of the cockpit...which usually means the cockpit has been breached. Of course it's still up in the air whether Neo is Mwu, though the general opinion seems to be swaying to the 'yes' camp...

[john_doe_107]

hey, when you're designing a mobile suit or some shit like that..the main priority is of course the pilot's safety is the priority.
apparently, the safety standards in seed si so good such that pilots can survive conditions even cockroaches can't.

[DragonBladeX]

Somehow gundams are superior in cockpit design it seems, grunts suits have it tough with inferior designs that can't even save a pilot. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Lets just leave it at the fact that its up to the director to decide who he wants dead or alive.

[telemari]

Yeah, Gundams are fairly safe - you can get a new freedom, but you can't get a new kira i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: DragonBladeX
Then again Gundam Seed has drilled one thing into our head. If the show does not show a cockpit of the character in question getting sliced, exploding or the whole MS exploding around him/her, it is guranteed that the character has survived to fight another day. They could show a scene of scattered parts belonging to the character(except body) and he/she would just pop up again.

Grunts are exempted from the above logic.

Edit: Of course the show has failed to explain how Mwu managed to find air without his helmut....in space!!! For the helmut to get into space it has to go somewhere out of the cockpit...which usually means the cockpit has been breached. Of course it's still up in the air whether Neo is Mwu, though the general opinion seems to be swaying to the 'yes' camp...

Well they could basically say a junker found the cockpit still sealed and upon opening it noticed Mwu's helmet glass was shattered and quickly discarded it resealed the cockpit and found him a new one. The only issue is they show the wreckage and helmet immediately after the explosion so we all assume he died.

[weakest anbu]

I just dont like how ppl cry in every single episodes...

meh. Im just not the emotional masturbation type.

[ChaosK]

hmmm waht about the time, oh no nope...umm what about...nope...hey your right, some guy ALWAYS crys! theres never been 3 episodes in a row i dont think where nobody cries. but this show is anything but disappointing.

could Djibril have been the 1 to found Mwu/Neo??

[Aramis]

While it's true that this series was written after they realised how much money they had made with GS, what do we care, we just download the episodes from the net for free, and the content is all that matters.
and i'm totally hooked by the story, and some of the scenes were the coolest ones in anything gundam.

[jing]

You make alot of reasonable points. Also, I hate it when pilots survive exploding gundams...

[masamuneehs]

I will agree that the show has failed on the part of developing the characters. For the most part this development has been either unreasonably slow and stunted or super-fast and unbelievably radical. I partly feel that concentrating character deaths within a 5 episode span is the cause of this. & then we have Cagalli and Lacus Faction, which developed slightly in result of being attacked & ORB joining EAF, but then have fallen right back into their roles from GS, which means basically zero development for them...

Second, the fan service is pretty high, but not so much that it dettracts from the show.

Third, the blatant excuse to introduce new mecha in order to bolster Model Kit sales is becoming fairly obvious and guides the pacing of teh series more than anything else, which is shameful. Just like last Seed, around 25-30 we have lots of people die, Gundams and other things destroyed. Then they start getting new Gundams and things about 4 or 5 episodes later, face a new batch of replacements with new upgraded rehashes of previous Gundams (Deathscythe, Wing & well I dunno what the 3rd one can be compared to- bacially the EAF druggies in GS) and give the baddie a cool Gundam too.
I do believe this pacing is in order to sell models. I also believe characters are kept alive so that people will want to buy the next model that their favorite character gets to pilot, even though he/she should be dead...

Fourth, invincible, unquestionable characters and leaders. I've spoken volumes on why particular characters should have died and didn't in GS, but needless to say it detracts from the show when you know Character X & Y are invincible and will always whoop any opponent and even if they do appear to be bested, they'll get a new, better Gundam later and kick that fools' ass anyhow. Then you have leaders not properly being questioned on their judgment calls who suddenly have assloads of authority for no particular reason. Yuna Roma, Dullindal's easilly keeping secrets from the security council, Lacus leading a fucking group of people (she's a pop star you idiots)

Fifth, for an anime as preachy on war and shit like that, there is almost no political action or plotline whatsoever. It mostly consists of, A wants political power, conspires to oust B from power, A uses power for some immoral end. & then we have rapid power shifts and new leaders seemlessly transitioning in with little opposition. We don't know anything about the structure of the EAF, anything about ZAFT's politicians besides Dullindal, anything about why Scandinavia is neutral or how they came to be. And then there are all these nations just switching from EAF to ZAFT, with no reference to who their leaders are, why they switched, or if the people just outright revolted.

Where Gundam Wing had too much politics and also invincible characters, Destiny is worse (my opinion) because it has virtually no political dialogue, slightly less indestructible characters.

Fifth, without pointing fingers at specific characters:
IF you were the biggest part of ending the last war, shouldn't you be involved in maintaining the world order afterwards rather than retiring to some remote island?
IF you need someone to be your pawn who is stronger than you and over-emotional, why don't you try to employ more than gruff orders and stern advise when manipulating them?
IF you don't know who to fight or why you're fighting, how can you tell others not to, and then leave them without a means to fight?
IF you hate Coordinators, why would you ever give the Destroy plans to one? And the identities of your secret group?
IF you were in an invicible Mobile Armor, why would you take off the huge shields to turn into a slow as shit MS when fighting 2 ultra-quick MSs?
IF you're happy and you know it clap your hands.
IF you're losing a war, why don't you change your battle tactics / begin dialogue for a peace treaty?

The 1st, 3rd, 4th and last questions are what bother me the most. It just doesn't seem logical at all.

[Naruto_RNG]

I say it's how they picked their main character. arragont fool who blames everyone but himself. come on people we all watched GSD because of kira and athuran, not shin or anyone else.

[fox_t]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
I will agree that the show has failed on the part of developing the characters. For the most part this development has been either unreasonably slow and stunted or super-fast and unbelievably radical. I partly feel that concentrating character deaths within a 5 episode span is the cause of this. & then we have Cagalli and Lacus Faction, which developed slightly in result of being attacked & ORB joining EAF, but then have fallen right back into their roles from GS, which means basically zero development for them...

Second, the fan service is pretty high, but not so much that it dettracts from the show.

Third, the blatant excuse to introduce new mecha in order to bolster Model Kit sales is becoming fairly obvious and guides the pacing of teh series more than anything else, which is shameful. Just like last Seed, around 25-30 we have lots of people die, Gundams and other things destroyed. Then they start getting new Gundams and things about 4 or 5 episodes later, face a new batch of replacements with new upgraded rehashes of previous Gundams (Deathscythe, Wing & well I dunno what the 3rd one can be compared to- bacially the EAF druggies in GS) and give the baddie a cool Gundam too.
I do believe this pacing is in order to sell models. I also believe characters are kept alive so that people will want to buy the next model that their favorite character gets to pilot, even though he/she should be dead...

Fourth, invincible, unquestionable characters and leaders. I've spoken volumes on why particular characters should have died and didn't in GS, but needless to say it detracts from the show when you know Character X & Y are invincible and will always whoop any opponent and even if they do appear to be bested, they'll get a new, better Gundam later and kick that fools' ass anyhow. Then you have leaders not properly being questioned on their judgment calls who suddenly have assloads of authority for no particular reason. Yuna Roma, Dullindal's easilly keeping secrets from the security council, Lacus leading a fucking group of people (she's a pop star you idiots)

Fifth, for an anime as preachy on war and shit like that, there is almost no political action or plotline whatsoever. It mostly consists of, A wants political power, conspires to oust B from power, A uses power for some immoral end. & then we have rapid power shifts and new leaders seemlessly transitioning in with little opposition. We don't know anything about the structure of the EAF, anything about ZAFT's politicians besides Dullindal, anything about why Scandinavia is neutral or how they came to be. And then there are all these nations just switching from EAF to ZAFT, with no reference to who their leaders are, why they switched, or if the people just outright revolted.

Where Gundam Wing had too much politics and also invincible characters, Destiny is worse (my opinion) because it has virtually no political dialogue, slightly less indestructible characters.

Fifth, without pointing fingers at specific characters:
IF you were the biggest part of ending the last war, shouldn't you be involved in maintaining the world order afterwards rather than retiring to some remote island?
IF you need someone to be your pawn who is stronger than you and over-emotional, why don't you try to employ more than gruff orders and stern advise when manipulating them?
IF you don't know who to fight or why you're fighting, how can you tell others not to, and then leave them without a means to fight?
IF you hate Coordinators, why would you ever give the Destroy plans to one? And the identities of your secret group?
IF you were in an invicible Mobile Armor, why would you take off the huge shields to turn into a slow as shit MS when fighting 2 ultra-quick MSs?
IF you're happy and you know it clap your hands.
IF you're losing a war, why don't you change your battle tactics / begin dialogue for a peace treaty?

The 1st, 3rd, 4th and last questions are what bother me the most. It just doesn't seem logical at all.

Wow...if you have that many complaints about the series stop watching it. Why are you wasting your time?

Another thing, I don`t see how you can say that GSD does anything worse than Wing. That cuts your credibility by at least half.

As for you questions...



Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you were the biggest part of ending the last war, shouldn't you be involved in maintaining the world order afterwards rather than retiring to some remote island?

Kira is not a politician. You leave the politics to the politicians. Before you even utter the words, Lacus is an activist, not a politician. Cagilli tried but she was too young to remain strong in her convictions and was easily overthrown by more experienced individuals.






Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you need someone to be your pawn who is stronger than you and over-emotional, why don't you try to employ more than gruff orders and stern advise when manipulating them?

I don`t see how this is relevant to any issue that GSD addresses.



Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you don't know who to fight or why you're fighting, how can you tell others not to, and then leave them without a means to fight?

I suppose u`re talking about the Clyne Faction, Orb, Freedom Vs. Saviour...just who are you talking about. All I know is they`re point is war is not a means through which peace can be attained.




Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you hate Coordinators, why would you ever give the Destroy plans to one? And the identities of your secret group?

be answered in due time. That`s why you wThe series isn`t over and I`m sure this will atch the whole thing, so you can complete the story.



Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you were in an invicible Mobile Armor, why would you take off the huge shields to turn into a slow as shit MS when fighting 2 ultra-quick MSs?

Even in it`s Mobile Armor form destroy is not invincible.



Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you're losing a war, why don't you change your battle tactics / begin dialogue for a peace treaty?

You`ve obviously missed one of the central conflicts of GS/D.

[darkshadow]

the show hasnt failed me at least, i love it, every single scene of it

[SKY_SO_BLUE]

Same as for me ^_^
Enjoyable through almost every episodes. I'm just thinking if most people think that GSD failed to satisfy them, why not just stop watcing and just rewatch the original series? So much complaint out of it when you're watching it for FREE...

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs

Third, the blatant excuse to introduce new mecha in order to bolster Model Kit sales is becoming fairly obvious and guides the pacing of teh series more than anything else, which is shameful. Just like last Seed, around 25-30 we have lots of people die, Gundams and other things destroyed. Then they start getting new Gundams and things about 4 or 5 episodes later, face a new batch of replacements with new upgraded rehashes of previous Gundams (Deathscythe, Wing & well I dunno what the 3rd one can be compared to- bacially the EAF druggies in GS) and give the baddie a cool Gundam too.
I do believe this pacing is in order to sell models. I also believe characters are kept alive so that people will want to buy the next model that their favorite character gets to pilot, even though he/she should be dead...

you put it in words better than i could. that was one of the main points i was trying to drive at...



Fourth, invincible, unquestionable characters and leaders. I've spoken volumes on why particular characters should have died and didn't in GS, but needless to say it detracts from the show when you know Character X & Y are invincible and will always whoop any opponent and even if they do appear to be bested, they'll get a new, better Gundam later and kick that fools' ass anyhow. Then you have leaders not properly being questioned on their judgment calls who suddenly have assloads of authority for no particular reason. Yuna Roma, Dullindal's easilly keeping secrets from the security council, Lacus leading a fucking group of people (she's a pop star you idiots)

well said. invincibility does get annoying at times especially for the 'ace's. like... wtf are the producers thinking. is it just so that shinn's ego can inflate beyond the size of zepplins thinking he's killed kira and athrun? or is this some ploy for fukuda to get us to hate shinn more when he is, after all, the protagonist of the show? oh wait.. it's probably another ploy to induce more model sales by cheapening the storyline... destroy old gundam, bring in a new one -.-;



Fifth, for an anime as preachy on war and shit like that, there is almost no political action or plotline whatsoever. It mostly consists of, A wants political power, conspires to oust B from power, A uses power for some immoral end. & then we have rapid power shifts and new leaders seemlessly transitioning in with little opposition. We don't know anything about the structure of the EAF, anything about ZAFT's politicians besides Dullindal, anything about why Scandinavia is neutral or how they came to be. And then there are all these nations just switching from EAF to ZAFT, with no reference to who their leaders are, why they switched, or if the people just outright revolted.

actually i'm rather intrigued of the political aspect of GSD. it's one of the main points that keeps this story going albeit, there are a few plot holes. the political aspect is pretty straight-foward with another war coming in and dullindal holding reins of the military. Orb gets meshed into the war as well. GSD, however, fails to point out the smaller details like how or why Europe was 'colluding' with ZAFT and why Neo's team was sent there to neutralize the enemy. WTF were the logos leaders thinking?




Fifth, without pointing fingers at specific characters:
IF you were the biggest part of ending the last war, shouldn't you be involved in maintaining the world order afterwards rather than retiring to some remote island?

fox_t said it best. kira is .. or rather was, a soldier and not a politician.



IF you need someone to be your pawn who is stronger than you and over-emotional, why don't you try to employ more than gruff orders and stern advise when manipulating them?

what dullindal's doing now is working for shinn. athrun, however, was a vet. through the war so only HE knows how to handle his conflicted emotions.



IF you don't know who to fight or why you're fighting, how can you tell others not to, and then leave them without a means to fight?

a good question. the one who is incapacitated is only left open to enemies. which makes the actions taken by the lacus/archangel faction are rather puzzling. they're probably thinking its some sort of brother rivalry situation and they're the mother, where issues get resolved by taking away the means to hurt each other. But the problem goes deeper than that... and not as simple




IF you're losing a war, why don't you change your battle tactics / begin dialogue for a peace treaty?

Depends on who you mean by losing the war. Logos and EAF are completely different stories. EAF is rather simple, because they realize the influence of dullindal and how his words have spread across the earth. For the Logos, that is because they're greedy, dirty politicians. Even if they were to surrender, they could never be able to face the world again.


Overall, I agree with a lot of the points you've made masamuneehs. despite however much i am disappointed with this series, i will keep watching it

[Darknodin]

I'm too tired to counter anyone's logic... but i'll offer my opinion... I find Gundam SEED destiny, better than the first SEED. not as a standalone of course, but as building up of something. SEED started slow while Destiny started with drums rolling. also, Destiny has put the political intrigue to another level which is nice... all and all, if they don't mess up the end, I will definitely say I prefer Destiny to SEED.

[john_doe_107]

hey, don't even compare gundam seed with gundam wing
gundam wing was run by a bunch of robots. gundam seed at least we know they are humans.
i think what is needed is a bit of narration at the beginning, instead of having recaps, just tell a bit on how the politics went on and stuff like that.
other than that..no need to work yourself and make a big deal out of it. this thing has its loopholes and stuff like that. but what show doesn't?
its better sometimes to sit back, relax and enjoy the ride.
don't think too much and take things for granted, you'll enjoy it more.
forgive me for being a simpleton.

but other than that, can someone tell me why in the middle of the series, the EAF suddenly became tryants?

[Mut]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Where Gundam Wing had too much politics and also invincible characters, Destiny is worse (my opinion) because it has virtually no political dialogue, slightly less indestructible characters.
That's so completely wrong. Destiny has the most insane gundams and characters, by far than most Gundam series.

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: Mut@chi


Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Where Gundam Wing had too much politics and also invincible characters, Destiny is worse (my opinion) because it has virtually no political dialogue, slightly less indestructible characters.
That's so completely wrong. Destiny has the most insane gundams and characters, by far than most Gundam series.

wing zero took out an outerspace colony in ONE SHOT. with a BEAM CANNON. i have yet to see that happen in any other gundam series.

[Dannynonsense]

something like being able to destroy colonies with one shot is only in two series gundam x and gundam wing and both of ther are AU series.

[iesu 350z]

i dont know why you people bother to complain about the plotting for GSD, change is hard.. give them credit.. for trying to create a unique storyline.. rather than the same old "find a gundam, pilot it, trash it, get a better one, takes massive damage in the final fight, peace" realize that the plotting is more original.. are you guys afriad of change?
if you've watched every gundam series.. its verry similiar heck even the models are derived from each other.. scrapping parts from here and there and stick them together lol.. they are finally creating something out of ordinary! starting with the plot, enjoy it n_n

btw they are running out of ideas, there is a limit to mix and matching :] the end is near

edit: oh yeah.. umm the main charater isnt godlike lmao.. ex: heero jumping from insane heights, hit a hill and roll down.. just to get up.. dust off.. walk away..
such as, kira they gave him more a more humane charater.. and slowly developed into the kira now

crying hard with a snotty nose is a trend!! wooh crybabies

[OMGWTFBBQx12]

wtf.. is this GSD owned guys if you dont like shinn i would go crazy if i lost the people i loved........
i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif i be wanting revenge too!

GSD is awsome in lots of ways i cant explain >.<

[FelixZeroAlastor]

Well this is more of a thread for complaints. Well let me throw in my five cents here.

My first complaint is the amount of reused scenes. I am so sick of see so and so getting killed by so and so with the same freakin attack again and again and again. I know you guys have to be sick of it too. I mean every battle I see a reused scene at some point and it just pisses me off. Same with the openings. Op3 and 4 have near identical scenes . Just pure annoying. The plethora of reused scenes is gonna drive me insane.

Second Complaint. Music. Near same music. Couldn't they have changed the music completely or something? And Wings of Words/Op4. What the hell is that. Same for I want to go to a place.../Ed3. That song also. They completely destroy the look and feel of GSD. With a lame opening and ending coupled with an episode recap leaves only about 17 to 18 minutes of the actual episode. They could've used that time wasted to explain and go more in depth to the many unanswered questions that have been stated in this thread already.

The entire if you don't accually see the person in the cockpit of a mobile suit combust then they are alive thing is getting really old. By all rights almost all the the current pilots should be dead right now. I mean really. By some strange turn of events Mwu survived, but I'm not gonna get into that and other people who should've died.

I have a lot more to post but I'll do it later.

EDIT: Them making Kira out to be a newtype now is just plain stupid in my opnion. He is already the ultimate coordinator. Soon he'll be the ultimate newtype to boot. They really are trying to turn Kira into a god of mobile suits. After seeing Shinn's work in the Destiny I thought "Hey maybe Shinn will be able to match Kira." but now all hope of that is gone. Athrun and Canard are the only ones left who even come close but I doubt that they could even handle him.

Pilot stupidity is also a major problem. When Shinn fought those Destroy's I kept questioning the the brains of the Destroy's pilots. If those destroys stayed in mobile armor mode they could've kept their shields projected and fired upon Destiny. The blatent disregard for battle strategies just pisses me off. But you know. Gundams are so powerful that they make battle strategies useless. I mean come on. Shinn's new light shield on destiny was able to repel a head on shot from Destroy's positron cannon. To me that is garbage.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
EDIT: Them making Kira out to be a newtype now is just plain stupid in my opnion. He is already the ultimate coordinator. Soon he'll be the ultimate newtype to boot. They really are trying to turn Kira into a god of mobile suits. After seeing Shinn's work in the Destiny I thought "Hey maybe Shinn will be able to match Kira." but now all hope of that is gone. Athrun and Canard are the only ones left who even come close but I doubt that they could even handle him.

If this is true then fuck the series really has failed

[MrTicTac]

"wing zero took out an outerspace colony in ONE SHOT. with a BEAM CANNON. i have yet to see that happen in any other gundam series. "


gundam physalis (sp? o_o) took out a big ass number of battle ships in one shot sorta equal to a colony,,

double X maybe, but never shown actually taking out a colony

and tallgeese III (err sp again?) took out an asteroid

but wats the point of comparing zero's destructive power ? it takes wing zero like a good 30 sec to setup for the shot (its stays still at this point) and thats enough for any gundam/pilot in destiny to take it out or just dodge the shot completely

[FelixZeroAlastor]

Originally posted by: MrTicTac
"wing zero took out an outerspace colony in ONE SHOT. with a BEAM CANNON. i have yet to see that happen in any other gundam series. "


gundam physalis (sp? o_o) took out a big ass number of battle ships in one shot sorta equal to a colony,,

double X maybe, but never shown actually taking out a colony

and tallgeese III (err sp again?) took out an asteroid

but wats the point of comparing zero's destructive power ? it takes wing zero like a good 30 sec to setup for the shot (its stays still at this point) and thats enough for any gundam/pilot in destiny to take it out or just dodge the shot completely

What does that have to do with this thread?

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor

What does that have to do with this thread?

to prove that...



Originally posted by: Mut@chi
That's so completely wrong. Destiny has the most insane gundams and characters, by far than most Gundam series.

is wrong.



Originally posted by: iesu 350z
i dont know why you people bother to complain about the plotting for GSD, change is hard.. give them credit.. for trying to create a unique storyline.. rather than the same old "find a gundam, pilot it, trash it, get a better one, takes massive damage in the final fight, peace" realize that the plotting is more original.. are you guys afriad of change?
if you've watched every gundam series.. its verry similiar heck even the models are derived from each other.. scrapping parts from here and there and stick them together lol.. they are finally creating something out of ordinary! starting with the plot, enjoy it n_n

you just contradicted yourself. it's original yet their using older models to make the ones that come out in GSD...
if you consider starting off a gundam series with the destruction of xxx colony also an original idea, i have lost all respect for you.



edit: oh yeah.. umm the main charater isnt godlike lmao.. ex: heero jumping from insane heights, hit a hill and roll down.. just to get up.. dust off.. walk away..
such as, kira they gave him more a more humane charater.. and slowly developed into the kira now


uh first off, the main protagonist of GSD is shinn. second off, kira's protagonist role was in gseed. third off, his transition from whiny kira to god-mode kira happened in an instant. no one would predict he would be the kira that he is now. there was no slow development. he changed from whiny ass to god mode during the end of Yachin Due to when the coordinators try to attack the real Lacus. Kira is already the ultimate coordinator. he has yet to be defeated (minus shinn who actually did his research and plotted to kill kira while kira was not even in the aim to kill... and yet kira survives), he has pretty much owned every mobile suit he's fared against, he's got strike freedom now, and he may be the ultimate newtype soon enough. no one, and i repeat no one, will be able to match him.

[MrTicTac]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor


Originally posted by: MrTicTac
"wing zero took out an outerspace colony in ONE SHOT. with a BEAM CANNON. i have yet to see that happen in any other gundam series. "


gundam physalis (sp? o_o) took out a big ass number of battle ships in one shot sorta equal to a colony,,

double X maybe, but never shown actually taking out a colony

and tallgeese III (err sp again?) took out an asteroid

but wats the point of comparing zero's destructive power ? it takes wing zero like a good 30 sec to setup for the shot (its stays still at this point) and thats enough for any gundam/pilot in destiny to take it out or just dodge the shot completely

What does that have to do with this thread?

I was answering this



Originally posted by: Miro69


Originally posted by: Mut@chi


Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Where Gundam Wing had too much politics and also invincible characters, Destiny is worse (my opinion) because it has virtually no political dialogue, slightly less indestructible characters.
That's so completely wrong. Destiny has the most insane gundams and characters, by far than most Gundam series.

wing zero took out an outerspace colony in ONE SHOT. with a BEAM CANNON. i have yet to see that happen in any other gundam series.


"uh first off, the main protagonist of GSD is shinn"

i guess people can argue over that a lot,, among shinn, athrun, and kira,, screen time and talking-wise its pretty close, opening and ending also show kira in the middle etc more kira scenes

I say if Shinn dies in the series he's not the main char, likewise for Athrun and Kira

[Kenzaburo]

Just to comment on that "taking out a colony with one shot":

Physalis used a fuckin' nuke, that doesn't count. It was devised for using nuclear warheads and massdestruction. Wing Zero on the contrary was just...uh...over the top. But everbody was in god mode on that show anyways, that's part of why it was so crappy.

I already said it on another thread, the biggest problem for me with the whole SEED shows is, that they lack a certain realism( now just don't give me the "yeah, like Gundams are real" talk...that's not what I'm on about). In SEED(including destiny) everything tends to go over the top, too. Be it the pilots who advance to god-mode levels and do all their maneuvering and fighting without any problems or strain on them at all or the Gundam technology. They went from ammo using guns to beam rifles in a year, changed from "mere" superarmor(sry, forgot the freakin' name) to beam shields. And beam shields are not even in a test phase, every larger MS unit that rolls out of the factory seems to be equipped with it.
The whole military is a joke, people not questioning certain orders, others not following orders at all without any consequences. Cruisers and normal MS being completely useless and torn apart in the blink of an eye by all the uber-hyper-shitload-MS.
A colony drop which lasts for maybe 10 minutes and doesn't seem to have that much of an effect on earth. Politics are just a joke in SEED...c'mon, if everything was as simple as it is there, I would be the ruler of my own state by now.

I admit, UC is far from perfect either, but at least in some points concerning realism it owns the whole SEED timeline. Technology advanced on a more believeable scale( it took 7 years to develop Zeta) and the first Gundam was nowhere near the capabilities of even a Strike. Most of the bad-ass suits of UC did never attain a power level close to that of SEED, no matter if Zeta, ZZ, Ex-S, Alex, Physalis or whatever. Even more important, grunt suits were capable of taking out Gundams. It was not easy, but possible. And at least in some of the OVAs, grunt suits were essential to battles(Stardust, 08th MS).
The military felt more real...'though it is hard to say why right now. Maybe because of the plastic feel of all stuff in SEED. Technology, infrastructure and all the stuff going on in the federation had a more realistic feel to it. YOu were reprimanded for not obeying orders and you could actually see a "normal" military. In SEED it is all about the aces and they can do whatever they want. Everything else is suddenly controlled by some completely insane politicians who are not questioned at all although their lack of experience, intelligence or even ethics.

Still I like GS and GSD, for its nice animation and well designed MS. I even enjoy the story, but more on a "what happens next" level and not on a "freakin awesome, godmode kira destroys even more shitloads of MS and stupid kiddo shinn still gets no reprecussions for being such a fool" level. And to everyone now commenting again with stuff like "you don't like it? don't watch it!"...don't you get it? the thing is, that i like it, but i'd like to see some improvements made, so that it can be better. and there's really nothing bad in trying to be better. Stop argueing with all those lame stuff you learned while playing WoW, where everybody uses "arguments" like that. o_O

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Miro69
wing zero took out an outerspace colony in ONE SHOT. with a BEAM CANNON. i have yet to see that happen in any other gundam series.
Ah, you're right. Wing Zero is the best.

[masamuneehs]

Well, I still see Kira as the biggest focal point of the entire Gundam Seed series, and it does seem like he'll play a huge role in the end of Destiny too..

My reference to Gundam Wing was not to say which Beam Rifle was more powerful than others. In fact, I think I did admit (or at least have in other threads) that GW had a huge problem with giving the main characters virtual immortality in and outside of MSs. When an enemy nobody got hit, he'd blow up into a million pieces. When a Gundam pilot in a stolen enemy POS got hit, he managed to survive somehow...

I just was trying to say that this happens in Destiny too, and STILL PISSES ME OFF! When characters nearly die twice (at similair points in the story, in both series) and one thinks theother is dead but OH WAIT HE ISNT!! And they get together and go to town all hunky-dory on the other poor fools. Point being that there isn't much mystery, tension or edge-of-your-seat intensity in Destiny when Kira and Athrun are out there (mostly Kira) because if the guy can survive a sword that close to a cockpit...

And Athrun's stolen MS didn't get hit in the cockpit, but it's still a miracle anyone survived that blast...

If you want to say Wing was worse because of overpowered Gundams and invincible protaganists I just dont know what to say, you're entitled to your opinion too. I just don't see Kira or Athrun (and to some extent Shinn) as being any less indestructible than the GW pilots.

Oh, and Rey, Lunamaria and Shinn broke through an entire defense line.... The EAF attacked first, annihilated ZAFTs dropped units, and still couldn't defeat 3 Gundams, even with 5 Destroys and numerous defensive units.... This is also GWesque, with virtually one, two or three Gundams ruling an entire battalion because their pilots are SO DAMN GOOD.

EDIT: And as always I'd like to say that this is just my opinion. Accept it or not, I care not. And the aforementioned lack of consistency with obeying orders, executing battle strategies and insane development of technology does make the series cool sometimes, but undermines the gritty realism of war by favoring major characters and occasionaly making them infallible.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
If you want to say Wing was worse because of overpowered Gundams and invincible protaganists I just dont know what to say, you're entitled to your opinion too. I just don't see Kira or Athrun (and to some extent Shinn) as being any less indestructible than the GW pilots.

Oh, and Rey, Lunamaria and Shinn broke through an entire defense line.... The EAF attacked first, annihilated ZAFTs dropped units, and still couldn't defeat 3 Gundams, even with 5 Destroys and numerous defensive units.... This is also GWesque, with virtually one, two or three Gundams ruling an entire battalion because their pilots are SO DAMN GOOD.

Accually in GW the suits were not as overpowered as you thought. It just that their enimies had really sad mobile suits and strategies. At least in wing at some point ,their Gundams run out of ammo and beam weaponry as opposed to GS & GSD where gundams and normal mobile suits keep going and going and going. Hell even the pilots don't get tired. At least in GW the pilots got tired when fighting battles. Endurance and stamina seem to never be a problem in GS/GSD. In GW they owned until the mobile dolls came into play. This prevented them from taking out entire batallions to just entire platoons. They even had problems in GW Endless Waltz with the Serphants. Though they wern't trying to kill the Serphants, they still managed to get cornered in the end by the thousands of other serphants.

Shinn, Luna, and Rey breaking that defense line by their lonesome was just outrageous in my opinion. Hell Shinn could have finished that battle all by his lonesome. Him and Rey were blocking head on positron cannon shots from the Destroy's. Shinn cut up those Destroy's like they were nothing.

Now Kira. Everytime he gets a new Freedom he causes massive destruction. When he got SF he took out 25 mobile suits in 2 min and in the next 30 seconds took out three Nazca class Zaft vessels. WTF!!! He even hinted signs of himsef being a newtype. I shudder to even think what will happen next time Kira engages in a real battle and decides to go Newtype-Seed-Mode on the poor fellows who are coming for him while choosing to deny his and his friends ideals of right and wrong. And now we see the Meteors are gonna come back. God only knows what Kira will do with one of those. This is another reason why I choose to like Athrun, Yzak, and Dearka better. They have simple suits and don't go around destroying armies.

The point that I am trying to make is that if you want to complain about overpowered Gundams and Pilots who can only be defeated by other overpowered Gundams and Pilots then look no further. It's GSD!!!

EDIT: The only problem with the mobile suits on GW was Wing's Buster Rifle and Talgese III Beam Gun as they could take out colonies. And anyone who still thinks that Wing Zero can defeat SF is horribly wrong as I have compared specs and battle abilities and come to the conclusion that Heero is screwed unless you find way for Zero to repel beam weaponry.

Also seeing as Colonies and stuff on GW had self destruct buttons and really big reactor cores maybe they just aim for those in GW and start a chain reaction which triggers the hidden bombs for the self destruct sequences. While at the same time blowing up the big support tower thingies. Maybe.

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs

If you want to say Wing was worse because of overpowered Gundams and invincible protaganists I just dont know what to say, you're entitled to your opinion too. I just don't see Kira or Athrun (and to some extent Shinn) as being any less indestructible than the GW pilots.

I agree with you on a lot of the points but the reason I brought the GW argument into this was because they had insane gundams. I can see how now with strike freedom coming into the mix, that might give wing zero a run for its money, but prior to GSD, there was no single gundam that could take down an entire colony. GWing's physics was totally blown out of proportion and lacked any sense of realism, although i know one shouldn't be looking into that much when watching a gundam series.

as for invincible protagonists, it's simple: they can't die because of merchandise sales: I think the sole reason that Kira and Athrun survives their encounters with shinn is because a) they can't die yet and some 'further' role in the storyline and b) fukuda must make a blatant excuse for a gundam to be destroyed so that new ones can come in for model kit sales later on. the latter has become so fucking obvious that it cheapens the storyline so much. if shinn hadn't have destroyed freedom, how would kira get strike freedom? if athrun had died, how would he get his eventual new gundam (you know its coming)? the new gundams might seem cool and all, but the story is degraded and cheapened because of it. i agree with you that it does irritate me to see kira and athrun survive the encounters with shinn... but in the end, the story's built for model kit sales. what can i say? -_-



Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor

Accually in GW the suits were not as overpowered as you thought. It just that their enimies had really sad mobile suits and strategies. At least in wing at some point ,their Gundams run out of ammo and beam weaponry as opposed to GS & GSD where gundams and normal mobile suits keep going and going and going. Hell even the pilots don't get tired. At least in GW the pilots got tired when fighting battles. Endurance and stamina seem to never be a problem in GS/GSD. In GW they owned until the mobile dolls came into play. This prevented them from taking out entire batallions to just entire platoons. They even had problems in GW Endless Waltz with the Serphants. Though they wern't trying to kill the Serphants, they still managed to get cornered in the end by the thousands of other serphants.

Shinn, Luna, and Rey breaking that defense line by their lonesome was just outrageous in my opinion. Hell Shinn could have finished that battle all by his lonesome. Him and Rey were blocking head on positron cannon shots from the Destroy's. Shinn cut up those Destroy's like they were nothing.

Now Kira. Everytime he gets a new Freedom he causes massive destruction. When he got SF he took out 25 mobile suits in 2 min and in the next 30 seconds took out three Nazca class Zaft vessels. WTF!!! He even hinted signs of himsef being a newtype. I shudder to even think what will happen next time Kira engages in a real battle and decides to go Newtype-Seed-Mode on the poor fellows who are coming for him while choosing to deny his and his friends ideals of right and wrong. And now we see the Meteors are gonna come back. God only knows what Kira will do with one of those. This is another reason why I choose to like Athrun, Yzak, and Dearka better. They have simple suits and don't go around destroying armies.

The point that I am trying to make is that if you want to complain about overpowered Gundams and Pilots who can only be defeated by other overpowered Gundams and Pilots then look no further. It's GSD!!!

very good points, when GSeed began, there was a certain sense of realism dealt into it (with the phase shift armor and the strike gundam not being able to handle the desert environment, and even the power of gundams were limited (remember strike had to fly back to archangel a few times). sadly, that sense of realism has degraded really quickly with the introduction of GSD. I can begin to see where both GWing and GSD have their faults in terms of that realism.

[Dannynonsense]

this thread is really ruthless i wonder if you guys have so many complaints why bother to watch the series at all if you dont like shut up and dont watch it, i mean i doubt there ever was a perfect anime series ever where everyone liked every detail about it also i doubt kira would ever become the ultimate newtype since ce newtypes are so underdevloped and who would give him such a title, one things for though for all you people who want shinn to beat up kira in sf its not gonna happen to see the true power of a newtype watch Gundam X, MSG, CCA, V and Z gundam. then you will know the horror that is a newtype

[Kenzaburo]

If you want to say Wing was worse because of overpowered Gundams and invincible protaganists I just dont know what to say, you're entitled to your opinion too. I just don't see Kira or Athrun (and to some extent Shinn) as being any less indestructible than the GW pilots.

As far as I remember,Heero "tried" to commit suicide, when he blew up Wing. He was standing on the hatch of his cockpit and selfdetonated Wing and...uhm...he SURVIVED the fucking explosion?!? Beg your pardon, but at that point GW had lost any kind of realism. He had a mere trickle of blood on his forehead, I think. And I've never seen Kira or Athrun jump from these insane heights and shit like in GW. Though still I see your point and yes, you're right, GSD is far from reality, too, as I stated above.

@Dannynonsense



Still I like GS and GSD, for its nice animation and well designed MS. I even enjoy the story, but more on a "what happens next" level and not on a "freakin awesome, godmode kira destroys even more shitloads of MS and stupid kiddo shinn still gets no reprecussions for being such a fool" level. And to everyone now commenting again with stuff like "you don't like it? don't watch it!"...don't you get it? the thing is, that i like it, but i'd like to see some improvements made, so that it can be better. and there's really nothing bad in trying to be better. Stop argueing with all those lame stuff you learned while playing WoW, where everybody uses "arguments" like that. o_O

It sucks to quote myself on this, but I don't wanna repeat myself either. NM the WoW comment in there, though, I just noticed that almost every damn idiot there uses the same way of "discussing". (Don't like it, don't play it...their way to deal with criticism). But as I said, NM that, it's pretty much offtopic and only shows my frustration with that game.

[aznriced310]

lets back to the topic

have you changed your mind now that you've seen ep 39??!?!?!

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: aznriced310
lets back to the topic

have you changed your mind now that you've seen ep 39??!?!?!

good episode, but manipulating the storyline for model kit sales is becoming blatant.

[aznriced310]

i loved the ep....in fact , i WILL buy the SF model....but i mean...dont drag the sales of model kits into the anime itself....if the CEO of bandai told you to make the anime look good, what else can you do?

and the story/action is just starting to pick up exponentially for the last 10 eps, the pattern of all gundam series.

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: aznriced310
i loved the ep....in fact , i WILL buy the SF model....but i mean...dont drag the sales of model kits into the anime itself....if the CEO of bandai told you to make the anime look good, what else can you do?

and the story/action is just starting to pick up exponentially for the last 10 eps, the pattern of all gundam series.

it was the same time around here that seed got good, but to be honest, so far i haven't been wowed yet. 38 was like decent, 39 fared better. i hope things begin to pick soon.

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: Miro69


Originally posted by: aznriced310
lets back to the topic

have you changed your mind now that you've seen ep 39??!?!?!

good episode, but manipulating the storyline for model kit sales is becoming blatant.

I honestly am feeling this to be true as well. Are we offerred any explanation as to how a seperated rogue force (Lacus Faction, Arch Angel & Eternal) managed to come by 2 new Gundams with Beam deflectors, DRAGOON systems and hyper-fast speed? Or how they repaired the ArchAngel? With supplies from? With money from? With engineering support from? And then they have an additon lying around for the Strike Rouge of all things that can let it get in to space just in time to get blown to bits and still save the day?

Perhaps, indestructible Gundams and invincible characters aside, the biggest flaw with this series is, like people are starting to say, the lack of realism and the ridiculous, unexplained Deus Ex Machina advances and implementations of technology and resources.

Who remembers back in good old classic Mobile Suit Gundam when people would shit their pants over 3 or 4 ZAKUS? Now we get a Gundam scrapping 25 units in 2 minutes and incapacitating 3 battle crusiers without getting so much as scratched.

The central drive of the series seems to becoming intense battle scenes, intermittent song-singing, cool new Gundam designs. I believe this focus is killing the show, slowly watering it down to just another shounen action show intent on selling merchandise as its #1 goal.

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs


Originally posted by: Miro69


Originally posted by: aznriced310
lets back to the topic

have you changed your mind now that you've seen ep 39??!?!?!

good episode, but manipulating the storyline for model kit sales is becoming blatant.

I honestly am feeling this to be true as well. Are we offerred any explanation as to how a seperated rogue force (Lacus Faction, Arch Angel & Eternal) managed to come by 2 new Gundams with Beam deflectors, DRAGOON systems and hyper-fast speed? Or how they repaired the ArchAngel? With supplies from? With money from? With engineering support from? And then they have an additon lying around for the Strike Rouge of all things that can let it get in to space just in time to get blown to bits and still save the day?

Perhaps, indestructible Gundams and invincible characters aside, the biggest flaw with this series is, like people are starting to say, the lack of realism and the ridiculous, unexplained Deus Ex Machina advances and implementations of technology and resources.

Who remembers back in good old classic Mobile Suit Gundam when people would shit their pants over 3 or 4 ZAKUS? Now we get a Gundam scrapping 25 units in 2 minutes and incapacitating 3 battle crusiers without getting so much as scratched.

The central drive of the series seems to becoming intense battle scenes, intermittent song-singing, cool new Gundam designs. I believe this focus is killing the show, slowly watering it down to just another shounen action show intent on selling merchandise as its #1 goal.

i agree 100% with you, and the realism of GWing and GSD has been really blown out of proportion, but i guess it's to deal with the influence of this new digital age and hollywood, to a certain degree. UC was built in a universe a long time ago before the japanese becasme influenced with such. now, that sense of realism has degraded... sad to say.

but i will still watch this series, for i love gundam and i love space operas. nonetheless, i'll be loooking foward to gsd 40.

[fox_t]

Funny how everyone seems to forget when Amuro Ray ripped 9 Doms apart in a matter of minutes...

[DragonBladeX]

It was probably amazing at that time, so for GSD they thought, 'Why not make that no. higher? 9 is not enough. Lets make Kira destroy....say.....(rolls a random no. btw 10-100).....yes! 25! 25 MS should be destroyed by Kira alone! Plus their motherships!' i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Kenzaburo]

That is exactly why I didn't mention the first MS Gundam in my post. Amuro Ray and the original storyline had its problems, too. But it never reached a level like this...
And yup, I still remember the rest of the UC, and Zakus were a big thing back then. Not something to shrug off.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

The real reason I watch this show now is because of Athrun, Yzak, and Dearka. I also want to know what happened to Neo's Girty Lue and his TS-MA4F Exass.

[Miro69]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
The real reason I watch this show now is because of Athrun, Yzak, and Dearka. I also want to know what happened to Neo's Girty Lue and his TS-MA4F Exass.

yzak and dearka have not done anything for 39 episodes.. and we've only seen them once or twice. i really dunno what role they might play in the end of this war. girty lue on the otherhand was basically abandoned. nothing else more to talk about it, although neo/mwu might encounter it again when AA goes back into space.

[zn|¹]

Hmm, judging from how strong DRAGOONS are, why don't they just make a giant sphere with an unpenetrable beam shield, and attach 10000000 DAGOON systems to it. Hell, Kira, Asuran, and Shinn combined won't hold a candle to its might...

[Miro69]

FOUR recap episodes in a total of 41 episodes... it's become blatant how fukuda is trying to push this series to 50 episodes. and it aggravates me soooo goddamn much how much he's cheapened this series. 39 and 40 had the action and suspense going but guess what... another goddamn recap. seems like he loves the 10 to 1 ratio with those evil recaps -.-;

[Lacus]

I dont agree at ALL. Especially about the music. The first opening song was beautiful. Altho I have to agree the new opening isnt great.