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MrWhite
Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:51 AM
Hey, new to the forums. After cruising this forum for a while, I couldn't find my question. Hopefully this isn't a repost. Now, to the point:

Where the hell are duel and buster? I mean, not talking smak towards the Zakus, but let's be serious. Phase shift or no phase shift? That a big ethical question for any of you? In my mind, obviously at the end of the Gundam SEED series, buster was pretty f'ed up, but no where near freedom proportions. So I'm thinking that it would be logical for Yzak and Deakka to still use their gundams! Or possibly we might get to see them in the later episodes?

Just wanna hear everyone's thoughts on the subject.

PSJ
Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:31 AM
maybe dulinandal didnt think it was necessary to use those suits. they are afterall EA suits and for a commander and an ace pilot to use EA suits over the newly produced ZAKU's doesnt really give the troops much confidence does it? think of it like this. you are a zaft pilot that is given a ZAKU when you see yzak and diakka piloting EA suits instead the talk will start in a few seconds "are the ZAKU's weaker than those EA suits?" and stuff along those lines. to see a commander and ace to have confidence piloting ZAKU's gives the rest of the army a similar feeling. thats how i would have thought of it if being the one deciding about these suits.

ChaosK
Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:41 PM
werent they pretty much destroyed? ZAFT's technology and EA technology is different. They probably couldnt repair it, also didnt we already see Yzak inside a ZAFT suit? (some special commander edition)

telemari
Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:08 PM
... ask Lacus. she is greatest merchant with gundams in Destiny i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Curium
Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
werent they pretty much destroyed? ZAFT's technology and EA technology is different. They probably couldnt repair it, also didnt we already see Yzak inside a ZAFT suit? (some special commander edition)

Obviously they knew something about them because they repaired and upgraded Dual after he got knifed by Strike. Also, Dual wasn't really damaged at the end of SEED. He had to get a replacement shield and gun that were borrowed from the storage for Strike, but that was it.

Yzak was piloting a blue Slash ZAKU Phantom (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/zgmf-1001k.htm).

MrWhite
Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:41 PM
Oh come on, we all know that in the Gundam SEED Series, Buster, Blitz, and Duel were damaged multiple times even to the point of having their extremeties blown off. They were able to repair them then. What about now? I mean, look at the new gundams that PLANT has been producing. They seem to be based on the design of last series gundams. I just think that it's rediculous to throw away such excellant suits.

On the whole moral point, what's the bother of having zaku's when there are gundams being handed out? I better see duel and buster at the end of this series. Cause I swear...

PSJ
Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:59 PM
hmm i dont think they will turn up again, i hope not, those suits were nothing special really and could be replaced by ZAKU's i mean strike had its 3 modes, blitz had stealth and various weird weapons, aegis was a mobile armor. what did buster have? 2 giant cannons and duel was a suckier version of strike really. i think yzak is way better off in his new ZAKU, as for buster while it was easier to use with the connectable rifles its not all that diffrent from the ZAKU diakka pilots now.

DDBen
Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:38 PM
Well more then likely Zaft just scrapped them to steal as much tech as possible and then improved upon the design thus creating the various kinds of Zaku Phantoms. Notice they both heavily resemble Dual and Buster. My guess is they had to give up the suits to rejoin zaft and get them to forget about betraying them.

Curium
Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by: DDBen
Well more then likely Zaft just scrapped them to steal as much tech as possible and then improved upon the design thus creating the various kinds of Zaku Phantoms. Notice they both heavily resemble Dual and Buster. My guess is they had to give up the suits to rejoin zaft and get them to forget about betraying them.

I'm not really convinced that ZAFT has Buster. It was heavily damaged and aboard Archangel at the end of SEED. We know that Dearkka eventually returned to ZAFT, but they never really said that he left Archangel with Buster, it could still be in Orb.

Terracosmo
Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:10 PM
They obviously removed Yzak's Duel to make him balanced with the rest of the characters.
Had he kept his gundam he'd fuck over the whole cast, hell yeah.

XwingRob
Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:12 PM
HA! Yzak isn't that great.

*runs for cover*

Terracosmo
Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:16 PM
Yzak is god! He killed off 2 druggies as if it wasn't even a big deal. Oh yes, those invincible druggies... he cut through them like peanut butter jelly! *insert dancing banana here*

Also, only reason he lost to Kira is because he was the main character.

YZAK POWAHHH

Curium
Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Yzak is god! He killed off 2 druggies as if it wasn't even a big deal. Oh yes, those invincible druggies... he cut through them like peanut butter jelly! *insert dancing banana here*

Also, only reason he lost to Kira is because he was the main character.

YZAK POWAHHH

I really liked the way he took out Forbidden, it was really cool, but Raider I don't give him as much credit for. The pilot was suffering through withdrawl pains for the drugs and was acting depserate and not fighting the way he normally would.

Terracosmo
Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:06 PM
When Raider did random movements of extreme evilness, Yzak calmly calculated the situation and shot through it! That is true skill!

Roko
Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:19 AM
its cuz zaft has more advanced technology. No more need for those "experimental" suits after you take all the info you need on them, especially if you can get a better suit. By better suit, its not necessairly equipment or weapons, but rather the OS.

FelixZeroAlastor
Mon, 06-13-2005, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Yzak is god! He killed off 2 druggies as if it wasn't even a big deal. Oh yes, those invincible druggies... he cut through them like peanut butter jelly! *insert dancing banana here*

Also, only reason he lost to Kira is because he was the main character.

YZAK POWAHHH

I agee with you Terra. Kira and Athrun couldn't even take out those druggies while they were working together. The druggies wern't even working together and they were still beating Kira and Athrun's teamwork stategy. If Yzak can come out of nowhere and suddenly kill two of them like it was nothing then hell he must be the gunam pilot god of GS.

Curium
Mon, 06-13-2005, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
I agee with you Terra. Kira and Athrun couldn't even take out those druggies while they were working together. The druggies wern't even working together and they were still beating Kira and Athrun's teamwork stategy. If Yzak can come out of nowhere and suddenly kill two of them like it was nothing then hell he must be the gunam pilot god of GS.

There are 2 differances from when they were fighting Kira and Athrun. The first being that Kira wasn't trying to kill at all, and Athrun may or may not have been trying to avoid it (though he did finally take out Calamity). The other is that even though they weren't fighting as a team, Kira and Athrun couldn't really focus on just one because the other(s) would take advantage and attack from another angle without even worrying about accidently hitting each other.

FelixZeroAlastor
Mon, 06-13-2005, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by: Curium


Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
I agee with you Terra. Kira and Athrun couldn't even take out those druggies while they were working together. The druggies wern't even working together and they were still beating Kira and Athrun's teamwork stategy. If Yzak can come out of nowhere and suddenly kill two of them like it was nothing then hell he must be the gunam pilot god of GS.

There are 2 differances from when they were fighting Kira and Athrun. The first being that Kira wasn't trying to kill at all, and Athrun may or may not have been trying to avoid it (though he did finally take out Calamity). The other is that even though they weren't fighting as a team, Kira and Athrun couldn't really focus on just one because the other(s) would take advantage and attack from another angle without even worrying about accidently hitting each other.

That second one doesn't count. Thats all strategy. They probably learned that from playing those games ,even though you only saw one playing a game. The first one you mentioned can be left to argue over though.

benjaminz
Tue, 06-14-2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Yzak is god! He killed off 2 druggies as if it wasn't even a big deal. Oh yes, those invincible druggies... he cut through them like peanut butter jelly! *insert dancing banana here*

Also, only reason he lost to Kira is because he was the main character.

YZAK POWAHHH

woo you just made me realize how uber Yzak is ahahah

MeroTZ
Tue, 06-14-2005, 12:13 PM
Most likely, Zakus are the better choice of Mobile Suits. We know Zakus are high performance... their speed and maneuverability are comparable to Chaos/Gaia/Abys. They are certainly faster than Buster was, and possibly faster than Duel.

Their lack of Phase Shift armor doesn't mean as much as it used to, as Beam weapons are now the standard. And since Phase Shift doesn't help against beam weapons, its not so much an advantage as it used to be.

Zaku's are also armed well enough to be better/as good as duel and buster. Yzaks Zaku, especially suits him. It has a powerful ranged weapon system that allows both of his hands free for melee combat, which he seems to prefer. While Dearka lost some of his cool abilities (busters scatter type weapons), he's picked up a little versatility (beam rifle), protection (shoulder shield), and speed. Not to mention a main weapon which prolly has better one shot damage than the Buster could put out.

Add all that to the psychological advantage of having your aces flying your new signature suit, and well, its not hard to see why Duel is gathering dust somewhere. Maybe we will see it again though.

Rik
Tue, 06-14-2005, 05:24 PM
I was thinking.... There could be a side story about these Gundams. If not they should make one. Something like...a boy in PLANT finds Duel in a warehouse and upgrades it and so on. Not a bad start huh?

Rik
Tue, 06-14-2005, 05:25 PM
Sorry about the double post... I feel like a noob


And yet you post a third time...

GotWoot Moderator

masamuneehs
Tue, 06-14-2005, 10:36 PM
These suits are dead not because they were designed poorly or because ZAFT doesn't want to reproduce EAF models or can't repair them or anything like that.

I am beginning to think that Gundam pilots and Gundams are all about selling model kits and coming up with newer/ better designs by the artists and designers. I honestly feel that some characters are killed off or lose their suit at predetermined times in the series so that Bandai can whip out new models and toys and all that stuff.

In the immortal words of Mel Brooks' Yogurt, "Merchandising, merchandising! Where the real $ from the movie is made!" ..in this case anime...

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 01:54 PM
In my opinion, they took off Duel and Buster, because it was the new series and they didn't want to make their new characters look too crappy. In other words, they were afraid that we would like Duel and Buster way better than Impulse and the new crappy suits. No offense, but Impulse, Gaia, and Chaos are really not what I expected. Seriously, they show us Duel and Buster with suits like that, people will be happy for Duel and Buster and not for whatever. Anyways, probably just took them off, so we can watch the new characters develop in their suits or whatever.

Mite Gai
Fri, 07-01-2005, 08:43 PM
They took them off because simply put they were not the most popular gundams of Gundam SEED while the ones that stayed on were. Though I am hoping they will just make a new version of each of them like with the new Freedom and Justice. They could call them Assualt Gundam (Duel) and Burst Gundam (Buster).

P.S. Yes I know the names suck, but I was so tempted that I had to try.

Terracosmo
Fri, 07-01-2005, 08:49 PM
I think they should rename Duel "Yzak Gundam". No better name can ever exist.

Mite Gai
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:10 PM
Should have expected that name, while they are at maybe they could even make the head part in the shape of Yzak's hair lol.

Terracosmo
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:11 PM
rofl that would be great. I like the way you think!

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:13 PM
You also forget the fact, ever since the series started you rarely see Yzak or Dearka in action, so even if you gave them their suits back, it wouldn't really matter, because you wouldn't see them using it much. Since they've become somewhat forgotten.(of course, i would never forget them, hell, still on top 5 list.)

Terracosmo
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:18 PM
At least Yzak showed that he's still the king back in ep 6. Hopefully however he has a significant role to play towards the end (though a somewhat negative part of me tells me that he'll end up getting shot down by either Shinn or Kira for some obscure reason). *sigh* too bad there aren't any druggies left for him to kill this time i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif Still, though, some new cannon fodder might be introduced (I mean we have one season to go and hardly any badguys left).

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:26 PM
Kira will definately not take care of the job, since he lacks the intent to kill. Shinn will definately fall to him in some way, because I still consider Shinn a noob!(compared to my top 5 list, at least.) If possible, it'd be cool if Dearka got back with Milly and AA, then he'd have no choice but to join them and Yzak will follow, joining forces with Kira to take down those bastards.(Crazy thought?)

Terracosmo
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:29 PM
It might be crazy but I like it i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Also the Kira thing just came to mind because the Archangel are enemies of ZAFT, which Yzak still serves under, and it'd be like:

Yzak: "ARGH IT'S THAT BASTARD AGAIN I'M GONNA GET HIM THIS TIME!"
Kira: *PLOT DEVICE*
Yzak: ARGHHH

Yeah you know, like the old Seed days.

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:38 PM
That wouldn't really be helping much, now would it? 5 minutes on the ship together and things will really be a war left and right in that ship.x.x

Kira:Hi there..I'm Kira, pilot of Freedom!
Yzak:Yo..say that again?!

Terracosmo
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:40 PM
Well I wouldn't mind a 5-episode punching fest between Yzak & Kira, I'm sure that if they actually fought hand to hand Yzak would beat that guy apart... damn Kira and his superior gundam mischief i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:43 PM
I'm sure Yzak will own Kira in combat capabilities, and if the guards come, I'm sure Yzak's hair can deflect bullets. And also, it wouldn't take him 5 episodes, and I'm sure Kira will be dead 5 minutes into the episode.

Terracosmo
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:47 PM
Jesus, that's such a funny thought, I'd draw that if I.. ehh.. could draw. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Anyway, things look pretty fucked for Yzak if he keeps riding around in his zaku during the upcoming season. Most likely all the crucial chars will end up with gundams, and even though Yzak is the almighty overlord of all things he can't possibly keep up with that in his zaku... or can he? I don't really know how powerful zakus are considered in Destiny, in other gundam series the zakus can't even scratch gundams but here some of them seem perfectly capable of even hurting them.

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 09:50 PM
He will jump into Rey's gundam, kicking him out, flat on his ass, Yzak will then step on him on his way out and go out fighting whoever, you see, problem solved. Then again, I like the previous idea better, The new and improved Duel with new and improved weapons!

Terracosmo
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:04 PM
Rey will be like zomgwtf! and then join the Yzak fanclub, making me like Rey even more!

Mite Gai
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:04 PM
You also gotta remember that if Yzak doesn't get his Yzak Gundam, that I am sure the mecha creators already stole as soon as I made that post about the hair helmet, Yzak can always go into SEED mode and at least obliterate Impulse (though hopefully not my fav. gundam girl Lunamaria) and if Dearka helps him I bet them both in SEED mode would destroy Destiny and then Yzak gets to live since Kira is still "the 0 kill pilot" and Athrun isn't gonna kill an old comrade and Rey will probably be protectin Dullindal back at PLANT.

EDIT: lol, same minute now thats just creepy.

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:13 PM
lol! Yeah, very creepy, but aside from that..

Yzak in SEED mode? they all better be begging for mercy. Wow, expect to see alot of red when that happens.

Mite Gai
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:16 PM
Yea, I bet he will have a flame red SEED, even redder than Shinns to show his rage, or maybe it will be ice blue sorta like his hair and eyes to show that SEED mode has caused him to think 100% clearly since Shinn described it as having his head cleared, and Yzak will be able to see all of his opponents openings and unleash ULTIMATE YZAK DOMINATION on all who oppose him lol.

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:31 PM
I see him in like white in SEED mode, then his zaku will transform into a cool version of Duel, then start slashing, shooting missiles, and shooting his beam gatlings like there's no tomorrow!

BTW:If Rey is stepped on, how will he join the Yzak fanclub?

Mite Gai
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:45 PM
He will drag his newly flattened body with all his bones except his right index finger and thumb broken to the fanclub signup stand out of his newly found love for Yzak.

Splash!
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:49 PM
Hmmm what could possibly piss Yzak enough to go SEED mode??? How about Dearka breaking up with himi/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:51 PM
Weird thought, but I can see him cutting hit hair like Yzak and then cutting his face on purpose to get a scar, then dying his hair as well, actually, now that I think about it, he'd look very funny.

Mite Gai
Fri, 07-01-2005, 10:59 PM
Or Dearka could just go:

Dearka: Look there Yzak! The Strike in disguise as _____(insert gundam Dearka wants Yzak to kill)!
Yzak: KUSO!!!!!!!!! *SEED Mode Sound*
His Zaku suddenly gains an infinite energy supply and is able to pull off superhuman stunts
Yzak: DIE STRIKE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 11:01 PM
Heck, it should've pissed Yzak enough to see Dearka going out with Milly. Maybe a Milly punching bag would put him in SEED mode! i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Terracosmo
Fri, 07-01-2005, 11:10 PM
I'll let your slight implications on Yzak being a homo slip since those images of him going Seed mode was so funny. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif
As much as I love this discussion we should get back on-topic (whatever that was) before this gets classified as pure spam. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

And always remember, Yzak roxx0r your soxx0r! (KUSO!)

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 11:14 PM
I didn't really mean it, Yzak is in my top 5 list. If anything just got caught up in that slight temporary moment. And yeah, I guess you are right, should get back to topic. Revive Duel and Buster or feel the power of..uhm..hm..screw it, I don't know anymore!

Mite Gai
Fri, 07-01-2005, 11:22 PM
You know what they gotta do with Yzak Gundam (that is now its official name) they gotta give it like a cannon the level of Busters combo cannon and still give him fast movement like Freedom and maybe two of those Lohengrin cannons and 3 funnels positioned like Nu Gundam's. Then it would be a gundam worthy of Yzak that would allow him to lay the smackdown on all those gundam pilot wannabes.

P.S. Yzak most definitely roxx0r my soxx0r.

RedX1z
Fri, 07-01-2005, 11:25 PM
For some reason, that reminds me of the Tallgeese from Gundam Wing. But I saw the image of his new gundam differently, I see him as the close-range type equipped with beam sabers and tridents, so he can just shove all those into the other people's pilot cockpits and crap and I guess like you said something similar to the Buster's rifle.

EDIT:Yeah, Yzak rocks, he's the next best thing since fried cheese!(Don't ask, I wouldn't eat it!)

Everon
Sun, 07-03-2005, 06:06 PM
^^ I guess from a technological standpoint that makes sense.

I was thinking more along the lines of political terms. Certainly they could of repaired Buster and Duel, but with the ending of the War, keeping captured units commissioned would be inappropriate. If anything, those units were probably returned to the EAF

ChaosK
Sun, 07-03-2005, 08:40 PM
either that or like in Gundam Wing they were launched into the sun to be destroyed.

KapsLocked
Sun, 07-03-2005, 09:44 PM
Going back to the subject of morale falling because of Yzak and Deakka using EA suits - they were technically made by Orb, and also they were sent to steal them anyways... sooo.... I don't think it'd be a problem of morale.

Though, of all the Gundams, I think Duel is the sexiest. Of course, I like the colors. And the fact that it's totally stock and considered the weakest gundam, hence meaning that Yzak has incredible skill for being able to do very well in a stock Gundam.

Oh, and Yzak is the sexiest of all the gundam pilots too! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Terracosmo
Sun, 07-03-2005, 10:47 PM
I like KapsLocked already.

RoninChaos
Mon, 07-04-2005, 01:41 AM
Duel and Buster were outdated by the end of the war. Newer better mobile suits came along and they switched. Plain and simple. End of thread

Mite Gai
Mon, 07-04-2005, 08:41 PM
Of course, when they put YZAK GUNDAM into production Yzak will be back in power because it will pawn all the others including Strike-Freedom and Infinite Justice esp. when Yzak goes into his SEED mode. Oh and of course the new Buster, if it exists, will probably have something along the power of Wing Zero's cannon as its a long range suit.

P.S. You do got a point there UltraDarkRedX1 it does seem somewhat like Tallgeese now that I think about it though I am imagining Tallgeese III. And I would have goon with the close range setup but Athrun's already got that covered with Infinite Justice so I was thinking more along the lines of Duel's all around abilities since I would basically give him a little of all the new kickass weapons.

john_doe_107
Sat, 07-09-2005, 01:00 AM
what's this i read about a shukatsu duel gundam or something like that?
yzak's gonna get a gundam is it?

i doubt if buster will return in destiny.. i read somewhere that the main reason the creators defected dearka to the archangel was coz buster sales were not good
so i bet you buster will not return

PSJ
Sat, 07-09-2005, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
either that or like in Gundam Wing they were launched into the sun to be destroyed.

Weren't they in Endless Waltz to and by the end just self destructed?

Oh one more thing TERRA WANNABE'S!!!!! Never seen so much Yzak love before.

Chris_Xion
Sat, 07-09-2005, 06:31 AM
Maybe they reconfigured Yzak's Slash ZAKU Phantom into using improved versions of Duel's weapons with Upgraded assault shroud+2 beam gatlings-That would show Yzak's enemies WHOS BOSS!

masamuneehs
Sat, 07-09-2005, 01:03 PM
Without descending into the gratitous orgy of Yzak-loving...

Suits were outdated, but I do think hving more coordination in the ZAFT forces, with creating special units for closer range (Duels) and backed up by long range ones (Busters) would be strategically genius for ZAFT up in space with all that room to employ formations and specialized squadrons. Like knights in front, archers in back. This type of specialization would benefit suiting the skills of the soldiers, rather than putting a guy who sucks with a sword into a position where he may get entangled in melee, OR putting a good scrapper in a position where he needs to hit a target from far away when he has terrible aim. AND most imporantly, eliminate alot of the confusion that always seems to be going on in these battles. Granted it wouldn't look as cool, but the military thrives on organization and specialization, and just purely developing and issuing suits that arent geared towards pilots and unacceptably throwing them out there into a chaotic battlefield...

Wait, wait I'm getting off topic here. But you see what I'm saying? You could even have a specialized covert ops squadrons of Blitz units too! And put DRAGOON units to the command ships and defend against huge missile strikes. Plus, how about some formations so you dont have all your battle ships and cruisers going willy-nill all over the place?

PSJ
Sat, 07-09-2005, 01:07 PM
Haven't you seen the Buster-like ZAKU's? Deakka pilots one and Luna pilots one.

masamuneehs
Sun, 07-10-2005, 01:06 AM
PSJ I have no clue who you were replying to but I really thought those units were just regular ZAKUs that happened to always go out with a gigantic Beam Rifle. I was referring to customizing the actual mobile suit to fit the preferred type of combat pilots excel at and deploying them in organized platoons and even more organized battalions. Just throwing a MS a certain kind of gun doesnt really change the make of the MS

MrTicTac
Sun, 07-10-2005, 01:14 AM
he prolly means the zaku's with the big beam rifle, was modeled after deakka's buster, combat data-wise etc

"Just throwing a MS a certain kind of gun doesnt really change the make of the MS"

i guess not technically, but for most weapons (for gundams) guns/rifles are customized for the MS

you could say that the big rifles those zakus are using now are a mass produced version of deakka's buster sorta like how they mass produced the beam rifles for the ground version gundams (08th ms team etc) after the first gundam's rifle

PSJ
Sun, 07-10-2005, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by: masamuneehs
PSJ I have no clue who you were replying to but I really thought those units were just regular ZAKUs that happened to always go out with a gigantic Beam Rifle. I was referring to customizing the actual mobile suit to fit the preferred type of combat pilots excel at and deploying them in organized platoons and even more organized battalions. Just throwing a MS a certain kind of gun doesnt really change the make of the MS

You were complaining that ZAFT lacked Buster-like units, i gave you one. A ZAKU with a beam cannon, Buster-like enough don't you think?

How is it the same fighting with a close combat ZAKU with a normal beam rifle and better mobility and a ZAKU with a beam cannon with less mobility?

It's the same suit with diffrent weapons sure but the beam cannon is fucking Buster-like. So what do you want to change for the MS to become more Buster-like and longrange capable? Remember these are grunt suits, they're not Gundams.

RoninChaos
Sun, 07-10-2005, 04:02 AM
As soon as "freedom class" mobile suits were created, it was OVER for the 1st generation gundams. Duel and Buster were stolen, ZAFT took what they needed from them and then they were discarded. And now even Grunt suits have firepower that match and even exceed the firepower that Duel and Buster had. A skilled pilot in a ZAKU could take out Duel or Buster in combat.

Duel and Buster suck now. You people need to stop living in the past.

bigdaddy843
Sun, 07-10-2005, 06:23 AM
NNNNOOOOOOOOO, Buster Duel I LOVE U. Zakus dont have phase shift and the versatility shown by Buster and Duel. We are not living in the past, they are 2 good suits which simply need overhauls. If u want to talk about out dated, Freedom would also be considered out dated. Zakus don't look half as good anyway and is'nt it the skills of the pilots that count and the OS? Like I said, they simply need upgrades

Terracosmo
Sun, 07-10-2005, 06:40 AM
Freedom/Justice were just as new as Calamity, Raider & Forbidden... and Duel destroyed both Forbidden & Raider.
So I wouldn't say they were THAT outdated...

Of course, that was partly because Yzak was a superior pilot to the druggies... but still.

RoninChaos
Sun, 07-10-2005, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by: bigdaddy843
NNNNOOOOOOOOO, Buster Duel I LOVE U. Zakus dont have phase shift and the versatility shown by Buster and Duel. We are not living in the past, they are 2 good suits which simply need overhauls. If u want to talk about out dated, Freedom would also be considered out dated. Zakus don't look half as good anyway and is'nt it the skills of the pilots that count and the OS? Like I said, they simply need upgrades

Duel and Buster were part of the 1st gerneration of suits in Seed, which placed alot of emphasis on the "newly" developed Phase Shift Technology.

Phase Shift armor doesn't matter anymore now that all grunt suits use BEAM rifles which come STANDARD (which PS cannot defend against). One hit to a critical area and your finished, no matter HOW much armor you have there, which is why the 2nd generation of suits in seed were created (Freedom, Justice, Forbidden, Calamity etc) with more thrusters and more verniers to avoid beam attacks.

Now if you consider Freedom outdated, the you MUST flat out agree that Duel and Buster are completely outdated.

Duel and Buster are NOT versatile in anyway. Buster is completely an artillery type while Duel is a generic gundam that later received an armor upgrade that added an extra missile and beam attack. The suits themselves cannot adapt.

Strike on the other hand CAN and SHOULD be considered the most versatile out of the 5 original suits in the 1st generation of Seed because of the changeable weapon packs.

RoninChaos
Sun, 07-10-2005, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Freedom/Justice were just as new as Calamity, Raider & Forbidden... and Duel destroyed both Forbidden & Raider.
So I wouldn't say they were THAT outdated...

At the end of Seed, everything that made Duel special (Beam Rifle technology, Beam Saber technology) was already integrated into common grunt mobile suits. Even the novelty of Duel being one of the 1st Gundams to have Phase Shift was already gone.

Yzak killed the pilots with his skill. He had a massive handicap because Duel was already outdated by newer gundams. Put another pilot in Duel and Duel would have gone down early and fast.

Pilot skill doesn't make any gundam less outdated. An outdated gundam is still an outdated gundam.

Chris_Xion
Sun, 07-10-2005, 12:58 PM
Im not buying that roninchaos.They upgraded Freedom to SF,Justice to IJ,Impulse to Destiny,Providence to Legend,so someone must have had the common sense to upgrade Duel and Buster,like say...Duel to Deathscythe Duel or Buster to Heavyarms Buster,im not saying they should use those names,but i juz luv the thought of Yzak owning everyone(except Kira and Athrun) in a Gundam with Beam Scythes,deflectors or black stealth wings,or Dearka using a Gundam with Dual Beam Machine Cannons...

MeroTZ
Sun, 07-10-2005, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by: Chris_Xion
Im not buying that roninchaos.They upgraded Freedom to SF,Justice to IJ,Impulse to Destiny,Providence to Legend,so someone must have had the common sense to upgrade Duel and Buster,like say...Duel to Deathscythe Duel or Buster to Heavyarms Buster,im not saying they should use those names,but i juz luv the thought of Yzak owning everyone(except Kira and Athrun) in a Gundam with Beam Scythes,deflectors or black stealth wings,or Dearka using a Gundam with Dual Beam Machine Cannons...

They did upgrade Buster and Duel.

They called the result a Zaku. The new generation Grunt suits are only Grunt suits because most of the people pilotting them lack the amazing skills of the main characters. The only gundams which are STRICTLY better than Zaku's/Windam's/Murasame's, and espcecially Goufs, are those which are Nuclear powered. Other than that, its all pilotting.

NOTE: While gundams are generally more heavily armed, their weapons essentially amount to a custom loadout. Having 15 beam cannons on Abyss really doesn't do it much good if it can only hit one target at a time. Not to mention that a precision shot from a single beam rifle kills a target dead as well as a volley from a Gundam, without wasting all that power. Also, as has been said, Phase Shift armor is a minor advantage now that beam weapons are the norm and not the exception.

That said, Yzak's skills are going to waste without a top of the line, Nuclear powered testbed mobile suit. I'm guessing the only reason that he wasn't issued Strike Freedom or Infinite Justice is because of his past history with the Three Ships Alliance.

Dullindal probably wants his potential to interfere limitted by giving him the weakest mobile suit Yzak can stand. I'm sure he's pissed to hell at his Zaku's limitations, but I'm sure he's happier there than in Duel.