Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS) [Archive]

kinggalaxia

Sat, 06-11-2005, 11:07 AM

Ok, watched this ep RAW, which is a first for me. Of course, my head ached over the dialogue missed, especially the Talia/Athrun argument and the Mirrue/Talia communication. Of course, the action is what I wanted. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

As for THAT......yes, yes, YES!! What a nice fight and I'm happy, knowing that Kira wasn't 100%. Because then, there'll be an even BIGGER fight coming our way soon, with Destiny vs. Strike Freedom. When it comes to crediting Shinn for the win? Well......I'm not so sure.

Pros:
Ultimate utilization of the Impulse. Lovely, lovely.
Emotion was high and with it, came a grand piloting performance from Shinn.
Kira wasn't pwned, not so much that he can be completely defended.

Cons:
Shinn wasn't alone (Rey's strategy, Meyrin's deployments, etc)
Kira was distracted and not 100%. I freely admit that.

I didn't think that Freedom would explode like that. That surprised me and my mind screamed his name just as Athrun did, lol. One thing I raised my eyebrow at was how Shinn was when it was over. Methinks he's finally snapped.

Can't wait for the sub!! ^_^ *prays Cellphone^2 releases their's before I leave for work*

StarQui_MonPL

Sat, 06-11-2005, 12:14 PM

As much as i am a shinn fanboy i have to say that i was expecting something more from this fight,shinn is going to the dark side of the force,someone has to give him a good lesson,the way he expressed his happines at the end of the ep that he destroyed freedom.

darkshadow

Sat, 06-11-2005, 12:19 PM

he was happy about avenging stellars death, not just about defeating freedom

but overall excellent ep and kickass fighting

Barumonk

Sat, 06-11-2005, 12:32 PM

Kind of glad Shinn didn't know that Freedom's cockpit is in its chest and not the torso... but then again, Kira was just sitting five feet above a nuclear explosion. I wanna see how they explain this one, if Kira survives.

k_truong

Sat, 06-11-2005, 12:49 PM

dont you guys find it odd
out of all the times when kira's life was in danger... he didn't go in seed mode this time...
oh yeh.. i think kira did went for the kill.. he went for a slash at impulses body.. but it disembles.. if it dind't disemble dont you think thats the end of shin?

kyubisrage

Sat, 06-11-2005, 01:10 PM

Nah Kira wouldnt destroy his no kill policy for a fag like shinn.

PTX-003C

Sat, 06-11-2005, 01:21 PM

this phase still has no suprise....
they gotta find a lame way to kill off freedom so they can release strike freedom and it's models....
nothing suprising..

antoine

Sat, 06-11-2005, 01:34 PM

WHAT A GREAT FCKIN EPISODE...though I didn't understand shit -_- (only word i understood was demo - but lol)
The fight was great and funny as fuck...kira was easily avoiding shinn just to hear what the archangle/minerva are yapping about...so funnyyyyyy

So basic summary of a fight:

Shinn after researching freedom, getting into seed mode, and continously switching equipment > Kira not in seed mode

We all knew kira's puny ass shield wont block that big ass sword sillouhette thingy so it was easy to determine the end of the fight lol

Originally posted by: k_truong
dont you guys find it odd
out of all the times when kira's life was in danger... he didn't go in seed mode this time...
oh yeh.. i think kira did went for the kill.. he went for a slash at impulses body.. but it disembles.. if it dind't disemble dont you think thats the end of shin?

well kira didnt go for the kill.

if you recall in seed when he first uses freedom on earth, he used the same move against Yzak and cut him across the waist (where impulse disassembled) and the cockpit is in the chest foo'.

and ptx...CRY? i/expressions/rolleye.gif

PTX-003C

Sat, 06-11-2005, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by: antoine
WHAT A GREAT FCKIN EPISODE...though I didn't understand shit -_- (only word i understood was demo - but lol)
The fight was great and funny as fuck...kira was easily avoiding shinn just to hear what the archangle/minerva are yapping about...so funnyyyyyy

So basic summary of a fight:

Shinn after researching freedom, getting into seed mode, and continously switching equipment > Kira not in seed mode

We all knew kira's puny ass shield wont block that big ass sword sillouhette thingy so it was easy to determine the end of the fight lol

Originally posted by: k_truong
dont you guys find it odd
out of all the times when kira's life was in danger... he didn't go in seed mode this time...
oh yeh.. i think kira did went for the kill.. he went for a slash at impulses body.. but it disembles.. if it dind't disemble dont you think thats the end of shin?

well kira didnt go for the kill.

if you recall in seed when he first uses freedom on earth, he used the same move against Yzak and cut him across the waist (where impulse disassembled) and the cockpit is in the chest foo'.

and ptx...CRY?

huh? what about me crying??????
and kira was in seed mode since the start of the phase(after op)

Shinji Ikari

Sat, 06-11-2005, 03:16 PM

Sorry, I have not read every post...

But this is What I think...

Shinn is no where close to Kira and will never be.

1. Kira is the "Ultimate" Cordinater, not only because of SEED, He just is as it was explained in GS.
2. Kira was distracted.
3. Kira's vow not to kill, I'm not too good with the Japanese, but as i heard it, Kira doesn't aim for the cockpit or any vital parts because he doesn't want anymore people to die by his hands.

4. Maybe the most vital issue conserning Kira's level of skill is that even if he uses SEED he won't be as emotionally invloved in battle the way he was in GS. Kira doesn't want his mind to become havoc and thus contains himself from crossing that bridge (That goes for Athrun as well which is the reason why Athrun is prepared to take shit from Shinn although Shinn is just a royal ass).

No one could ever match up to Kira of the old days in battle... No one in GSD can match up to Kira's sense of Justice. So what can we draw out of this? The conclusion is that Kira has focused himself upon becoming the most humane person alive who doesn't fall for crap coming from Dulindal or anyone else who claim to fight for justice.

So as a finale, If Kira lives, then he knows that he will have to get more invloved in the battles and he will wreck havoc and Shinn will be unable to catch up to Kira's strength. And if Kira dies, I hope to god that Athrun kills Shinn, give him the most painful death...

Actually (sorry, can't stop typing about this because it's such an important and turning event of this anime) what I think will happen is that when Cagalli returns to Orb, Athrun will stop fighting for ZAFT and return to the AA and with all his heart try to kill Shinn every time they do battle (which will make Shinn understand that Athrun is the real deal in battle).

And as an alternate event to Athrun joining the AA again, they will think Kira is dead for a long time (hopefully a short time) and then he will return with a new Gundam and they will fight together again.

PS.what is the Strike Freedom and have we seen any pictures of it?

Marks

Sat, 06-11-2005, 03:27 PM

Awsome. <3 Shinn. To all you Shinn haters, stop trying to find lame excuses to why Kira lost. It's his fault if he ain't focused, it's feckin COMBAT. Go to bed you carebears.

Shinji Ikari

Sat, 06-11-2005, 03:33 PM

It's not excuses, it's reasons. It is a fact that Kira had to take care of several suits and missiles launched at AA whilst Shinn had only battle to think about...

The difference between Kira and Shinn is that Kira represents wisdom while Shinn represents idiotism, anger, hate and has a very violent nature. Shinn thinks he is the only person in the world who has been caused great pain due to war.

With people like Shinn there will always be new wars, with people like Kira, those wars will be fought and ended.

PS... again..... Is there any information to who will weild the Strike Freedom or is it still in the dark due to major spoilers?

PTX-003C

Sat, 06-11-2005, 03:39 PM

i think you guys are thinking this story too deep....gsd is just a lame story for selling models and figurse in the first place...so does it matter how or why is freedom destroyed? the whole point of it is they will release strike freedom so they can sell more models..

Shinji Ikari

Sat, 06-11-2005, 03:49 PM

Uh, I think you are way out of line now minster, I think you need to go to time-out...

(The only ones who will understand me are the ones who have watched the movie "Cannibal the Musical").

Anyways... I can't say for sure, but I think you are being way too cynical. This series has proved to have more depth than most series I have seen.

PTX-003C

Sat, 06-11-2005, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Uh, I think you are way out of line now minster, I think you need to go to time-out...

(The only ones who will understand me are the ones who have watched the movie "Cannibal the Musical").

Anyways... I can't say for sure, but I think you are being way too cynical. This series has proved to have more depth than most series I have seen.

i can't see any prove at all.....it's so lame that even a 10 year old kid can understand everything..
nothing is really needed to be think ....no suprises at all....i am totally disappointed by gsd..
the UC series is much better...at least the plots are more normal...you don't see ppl suddently pop out from nowhere when they are suppose to be dead like kira in his phase...honestly...especially i am rewatching turn A recently....i find it's way better than gsd....

if talk about depth...i will say go for eva..it's one of the best anime with actually something that's needed to be think with your brain

another thing about this phrase............let's celebrate that mwu is finally regaining some of his memory...yay~~

Shinji Ikari

Sat, 06-11-2005, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by: PTX-003C
[quote]
Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

if talk about depth...i will say go for eva..it's one of the best anime with actually something that's needed to be think with your brain

another thing about this phrase............let's celebrate that mwu is finally regaining some of his memory...yay~~

I did watch eva, what of it?

Grave of the Fireflies and Now and then here and there are so much better... Actually, I have seen so much I could puke... Maybe it is just a difference in opinions, because to me, eva was nothing more than my life... and because of that, it was also very easy to understand. Things reminding of my own life just don't cut it.

And not that it is really that much related, The deepest story I have ever seen is Final fantasy 7.

kyubisrage

Sat, 06-11-2005, 04:31 PM

Shinn doesnt need to worry about anyone else. HE is a prick like that. Kira was worrying about everyones safety.

ChaosK

Sat, 06-11-2005, 04:49 PM

yes, i still do hate shinn...i was laughing my ass off when shinn was crying after sending stellar into the half frozen lake...(reminded me of old kira all over again) and then when stellar's arm was twitching a little i kept hoping she'd survive and try to swim (remember she cant swim) and then shinn sees her drowning he tries to save her but she really dies and then he gets pissed at hismelf and kills himself...

yeah i try.

Barumonk

Sat, 06-11-2005, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
PS... again..... Is there any information to who will weild the Strike Freedom or is it still in the dark due to major spoilers?

Strike Freedom is supposed to still be in the dark due to major spoilers, although many people seem to be forgetting that in this thread. If you want to know more, visit the spoilers thread. Otherwise its best not to ask about it or else someone might attempt to enlighten you, and every other person who even sees this thread. -_-;;

Madell

Sat, 06-11-2005, 05:51 PM

Wow dude this was a real lame epi...if it wasn't for the changeble stuff Shinn would owned by kira i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

PTX-003C

Sat, 06-11-2005, 06:23 PM

honestly...did anyone even notice that mwu is regaining his memory?

FelixZeroAlastor

Sat, 06-11-2005, 07:05 PM

I can't wait to see the expression on Shinn's face when Kira returns. It should be priceless.

I also noticed Mwu regaining his memory but was to busy pondering what Athrun was gonna do to Shinn and the Minerva if he gets his hands on his new justice before he realizes that Kira and the AA are still there to post about it. Really I think Asuran is gonna lose it. He thinks that both his greatest friend, fiance, etc are all dead. I think he's about to go darkside on everyone or something.

Cion

Sat, 06-11-2005, 07:18 PM

Reminded me a bit of Kira and Asurans fight.
Both going to great lenghts to kill Kira.

Will be interesting to se how Kira survives and
next time Kira and Shinn meets i think they will probably
be on the same side fighting the Logos/Chairman/Evil aliens?

oyabun

Sat, 06-11-2005, 07:43 PM

kira is the ultimate coordinator.. shin was just lucky n smart.. if kira was weaker, then the whole GS series was meaningless.. and i hope athrun kills shin too..i/expressions/devil.gif

dean10007

Sat, 06-11-2005, 07:48 PM

First, that huge explosion was the Minerva's Tannahauser.

Second, isn't the nuclear reactor of the freedom in the pelvis?

Third, how the hell did Mwu survive?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?! His MS blew up, and his helmet was floating in space. He should be blind, not just some wimpy scars.

oyabun

Sat, 06-11-2005, 07:52 PM

hmmm.. i hope they explain how mwu survive.. his ms blew up..

LokeXero

Sat, 06-11-2005, 07:56 PM

No theres 2 different explosions at the end, 1 is the Tannahauser, the second is freedom blowing up after being lanced with the sword silhouette, which i took to note to be the N jammer...

Knives122

Sat, 06-11-2005, 07:58 PM

I havent seen this ep yet, but I heard it was amazing.

here are some pics I got from Animesuki(and if anyone ever wanted to know how the explosion of Justice looked, well this ep is for you:

pics galore (http://s05.imagehost.org/view.php?image=/1191/omchan_gsd.jpg)

Mut

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:02 PM

Stupid fucking fight.

I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.

darkshadow

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:13 PM

hahah thats what a friend and i have been calling the power of the lead char for years now i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif it goes for games, movies, books, lol almost everything i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

LordGardenGnome

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:30 PM

Dean 10007 you asked if the nuclear reactor was in the pelvis. i think it's behind the wings/thruster area, but if you shoot a nuclear missle in the air it doesn't have a big nuke explosion, it just blows up. Why didn't he blow up? because it's that cliffhanger they leave you with.

oh and Mwu's Mobile suit head, arms, legs were destroyed but not the central body.

DDBen

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Stupid fucking fight.

I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.

I rarely fully agree with you Mut@chi but this fight was absolutely absurd. First off Kira was in seed mode for the entire fight and while its unknown how long he had been fighting before this particular episode took place this entire fight was just plain stupid.

above and beyond everything else we have the fact that Kira no matter how distracted he was stayed to far away from the ship which is completely uncharacteristic of him. Second the Arch Angel made absolutely no attempt to fight back it has more main cannons then the Minerva by far and yet aside from one shot randomly it used none of them. Even if it was attempting to flee as they were headed for orb there is no reason once it was behind the minerva not to take a shot at there engines before it could turn around.

If that wasn't quite insulting enough we have impulse splitting up with millisecond timing of which we have never seen any hint of in the past. Actually we have seen it take much longer every other time Impulse has ever combined. Yes we can go with Shinn has improved but certain things like Freedom and Impulse fighting behind Minerva yet somehow the flyer units are making it to shinn with no delay before Kira can even remotely react understandably he was realing from the shockwave of the exploting force unit yet the Minerva was engaged in combat facing the complete oposite direction yet its able to launch 2 replacement units before freedom has any ability to react. In addition if random shots were not working with the beam riffle why wouldn't kira shoot all around shinn with the 4 other guns. If you shoot the riffle at the head and the other 4 at the arms and legs there is no way that Shinn would be able to dodge them all with no damage yet Kira could be fairly certain it wouldn't end up killing him. Then continuing to when Shinn split the unit to avoid Kira's beam saber. Having just watched Shinn seperate the unit why on earth would you aim for the torso instead of disarming the unit like he has done in every other case in GSD there is no use in disabling the weaponless leg unit when he's holding a beam saber. Which low and behold while Impulse was split in half was able to completely destroy one of Freedoms wings. on top of that when Shinn shoots the beam riffle Kira acts like he's completely disarmed I do understand he's in the process of fleeing but I see no reason for him not to disable Shinn before doing so its not like he's in any position to aid the AA and even though freedom is submergable instead of dodging kira turns around and takes a sword right through the center.

Kira will live and my guess is he asked Mwu how he survived and used his secret tactic of plot hole i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif. Also please note that if freedom did cause a nuclear blast then there is ZERO chance that the Impulse would survive at about 4 inches from it unless the average beam riffle has more force then a nuclear bomb right in your face.

Overall a abysmal episode that was no better then a clip show considering 75% of the footage was reused from both Seed and GSD. Now that this worthless token episode is out of the way perhaps GSD can take some time to do something orignal and make this series worth watching.

Please note this is after the raw and I am not yet commenting on anything actually said during this episode.

PTX-003C

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Stupid fucking fight.

I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.

what are you talking about...kira just lost today....
main characters does lose

oyabun

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by: LordGardenGnome

oh and Mwu's Mobile suit head, arms, legs were destroyed but not the central body.

but mwu's helmet was in space, its clear that he shud be dead, we can't live in space without suits ryt?

ChaosK

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:51 PM

kira was in space with a cracked helmet, hes still alive.

LordGardenGnome

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:57 PM

Ooops, Sorry was thinking of Mwu in relation to Neo sorry. i was saying that the Phantom Pain purple moblie suits Arms, legs, and head were blown off, and the body hit the ground some how throwing neo out.

oyabun

Sat, 06-11-2005, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
kira was in space with a cracked helmet, hes still alive.

ur ryt about that, but he lost his helmet in space,by all means, he shud be dead.. i hope bandai explains this in a good way eeheh

ChaosK

Sat, 06-11-2005, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by: LordGardenGnome
Ooops, Sorry was thinking of Mwu in relation to Neo sorry. i was saying that the Phantom Pain purple moblie suits Arms, legs, and head were blown off, and the body hit the ground some how throwing neo out.

the door breaking?

oyabin i was implying that the laws of physics dont apply in GSD

PTX-003C

Sat, 06-11-2005, 09:43 PM

well...maybe just like what happened to kamiyo in zeta...
since in astray, it explained that strike has a pilot protecting system..after a small time..the cockpit will auto seal itself if the main unit is demaged
so...mwu prolly lost his memory cuz of brain demage due to air leeking

LokeXero

Sat, 06-11-2005, 10:12 PM

Your only saying that cause ur fav character got scrapped...the fact that if it were reversed, youd be praising it as a good ep...

oyabun

Sat, 06-11-2005, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo

Originally posted by: LordGardenGnome
Ooops, Sorry was thinking of Mwu in relation to Neo sorry. i was saying that the Phantom Pain purple moblie suits Arms, legs, and head were blown off, and the body hit the ground some how throwing neo out.

the door breaking?

oyabin i was implying that the laws of physics dont apply in GSD

yah ur ryt, it doens't apply, ehehehe sorii.. i give it to shin though, he was the 2nd pilot who blew up kira, I thought he would do a suicde move like athrun.. the force impulse with the big sword is cool!

This is an AOL chatroom. (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=58&threadid=14910&enterthrea d=y) Stop posting like that right now.

GotWoot Moderator

antoine

Sat, 06-11-2005, 10:26 PM

lol kira wasn't in seed mode and shinn still had a hard time defeating him
having watched the show for this long it always shows when someone is getting into seed mode...

intense

Sat, 06-11-2005, 10:29 PM

but kira was in seed mode.... if you look at the screenshots and look at kira's eyes, then you can fully tell hes in seedmode

Mut

Sat, 06-11-2005, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by: PTX-003C

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Stupid fucking fight.

I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.

what are you talking about...kira just lost today....
main characters does lose
What the fuck?

oyabun

Sat, 06-11-2005, 10:43 PM

shin is the main character ryt? not kira.. and kira was in seed mode.. its still hard to believe he lost to shin..i guess its shins lucky day

oyabin, this is the last time I'm gonna chase you around and say this. STOP TREATING THE FORUMS LIKE AN AOL CHANNEL. USE PROPER ENGLISH.

GotWoot Moderator

ChaosK

Sat, 06-11-2005, 11:25 PM

shinn isnt necessary main character, well acctually he is but i'm hoping he dies.

oyabun

Sat, 06-11-2005, 11:34 PM

well I hope athrun kills him, i really want to see athrun's reaction when he sees shin,

Knives122

Sat, 06-11-2005, 11:36 PM

who isnt now-a-days, Im kinda hoping Rey dies with him to tell you the truth. All the stuff that going on is making me annoyed with them. Im just glad that next week Athrun beats the crap out of Shinn(or so I hear)

ChaosK

Sat, 06-11-2005, 11:46 PM

telling what truth?

oyabun

Sat, 06-11-2005, 11:50 PM

if that's the case, eps 35 will be our salvation for shin-haters! yeah, maybe rey should die with shin, are they having a relationship?? shin and rey..

PTX-003C

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by: Mut@chi

Originally posted by: PTX-003C

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Stupid fucking fight.

I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.

what are you talking about...kira just lost today....
main characters does lose
What the fuck?

it's true...the director announced long time ago that Kira is the main charactor in gsd

oyabun

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:05 AM

i thought it was shinn,

Digitalgirl

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by: PTX-003C

Originally posted by: Mut@chi

Originally posted by: PTX-003C

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Stupid fucking fight.

I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.

what are you talking about...kira just lost today....
main characters does lose
What the fuck?

it's true...the director announced long time ago that Kira is the main charactor in gsd

really?...then what's Shinn?

Mut

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:38 AM

Wow, that's a big surprise to me. Then what the hell is Shinn, what a useless, crybaby, bitch character to bring in for no reason.

danholo

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by: PTX-003C
honestly...did anyone even notice that mwu is regaining his memory?

He was? I thought he was just wondering what was happening...

Anyway, the episode was quite good. I already watched it yesterday but didn't take my time to post here. I really like the episode, even though it was RAW, and the battle was awesome. I kinda predicted that Shinn would defeat Kira in such a manner but how it was animated and done overall was awesome. But in the end, he had quite a hard time defeating Kira. So Kira is that good. He was constantly distracted and Shinn had to utilize every option his suit provided with the different silhouettes. What a strategy. How might this change Kira's approach to battle? Shinn totally used Kira's no-kill policy for his advantage.

As we could see, Shinn didn't stab the cockpit of Freedom, so I really wonder how Kira can survive an explosion like that this time. He really has some super powers. Next ep we'll see Destiny and Legend, probably only in non-phase shift mode though. They were shown at the end of the preview shots!

PTX-003C

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by: danholo

Originally posted by: PTX-003C
honestly...did anyone even notice that mwu is regaining his memory?

He was? I thought he was just wondering what was happening...

Anyway, the episode was quite good. I already watched it yesterday but didn't take my time to post here. I really like the episode, even though it was RAW, and the battle was awesome. I kinda predicted that Shinn would defeat Kira in such a manner but how it was animated and done overall was awesome. But in the end, he had quite a hard time defeating Kira. So Kira is that good. He was constantly distracted and Shinn had to utilize every option his suit provided with the different silhouettes. What a strategy. How might this change Kira's approach to battle? Shinn totally used Kira's no-kill policy for his advantage.

As we could see, Shinn didn't stab the cockpit of Freedom, so I really wonder how Kira can survive an explosion like that this time. He really has some super powers. Next ep we'll see Destiny and Legend, probably only in non-phase shift mode though. They were shown at the end of the preview shots!

he said "why is this place ALWAYS shaking"
and don't you see that tiny pause he have after that sentense?

oyabun

Sun, 06-12-2005, 01:21 AM

well, i cant really blame all the kira fans for hatng shinn, but you cant deny the fact that it was he who one the fight. It was just a matter of being prepared. shinn knew that kira was something to be reckoned with, and that is why he prepared himself both in strategy and resources. If kira had prepared even just a little bit, though i dont blame him for not doing so because shinn is such a weakling, he would have won. Not to mention all the other things like he was distracted and whatnot, Kira is just definitely better than Shinn. Even shinn admitted to that by preparing for every detail as much as he did. Even though shinn is crappy and stupid and an ass, he still recognized Kira and the freedom's strength, and because of this he also took note of the weaknesses, like the fact that kira doesn't aim for the kill, which is probably the main reason he won the fight, along with his cheap part changing tricks. Kira is better than Shinn, and Shinn himself admits to it (though you wont see him do so) but Shinn was better prepared. In battle, strength isn't the only gauge. Shinn won, thats it.

danholo

Sun, 06-12-2005, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by: PTX-003Che said "why is this place ALWAYS shaking"
and don't you see that tiny pause he have after that sentense?

Ah, the problems of not understanding Japanese! (That well.) But was he talking about that exact moment? Did he know of the battle raging outside? But yeah... You are most likely correct!

Marks

Sun, 06-12-2005, 02:24 AM

KIRA DID AIM TO KILL! He tried to slize the center (cockpit area) of Impulse open, REMEMBER?!?!?

Falconco

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:08 AM

wow really sounds like a great one, can't wait for cellhphonese release =D

Curium

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:48 AM

Cellphone^2 Release (http://bt.nanashi-fansubs.com:2710/torrents/8094f26dfef7c8fd888cb5be7801604968123b59.torrent)

I cheated a little. I was checking the bot packlists, and found it one Cellphone^2|blackberry before they announced the release, bots send much faster then. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Digitalgirl

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:01 AM

yay! staying up until 4 in the morning has finally paid off.

PTX-003C

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:01 AM

Originally posted by: Marks
KIRA DID AIM TO KILL! He tried to slize the center (cockpit area) of Impulse open, REMEMBER?!?!?

that happened just to show shinn can get the core and legs saperated...
that's all..

Enough of your spoilers and shitty attitude. Get out.

GotWoot Moderator

Mut

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:30 AM

I swear, Kira is such a pussy. FUCKING KILL ALREADY.

Kira could've EASILY ended the fight right when decapitated Impulse, yet he decided to dick around and get distracted by stupid shit and not go for critical hits.

Madell

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by: PTX-003C

Originally posted by: Marks
KIRA DID AIM TO KILL! He tried to slize the center (cockpit area) of Impulse open, REMEMBER?!?!?

that happened just to show shinn can get the core and legs saperated...
that's all..

Stop spoiling, this sin't a spoiler thread fuckin retard go to the sticky topic and spoil tehre not here.

Millenium-Boyz

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by: Madell

Originally posted by: PTX-003C

Originally posted by: Marks
KIRA DID AIM TO KILL! He tried to slize the center (cockpit area) of Impulse open, REMEMBER?!?!?

that happened just to show shinn can get the core and legs saperated...
that's all..

Stop spoiling, this sin't a spoiler thread fuckin retard go to the sticky topic and spoil tehre not here.

wow wow wow calm down dude
its already written on the topic (may contain spoilerS)
and anyway
can anyone tell me where did the big explosion came from is it from the archangel or from NJC in Freedom

LaZie

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:56 AM

If it was the NJC, shouldnt Shinn be dead by now? He was right in the face of a nuclear explosion, all he got was a few melted parts

Curium

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:17 AM

I just noticed this, Freedom NEVER exploded. The only explosion was from the Tannhauser shot. I know someone mentioned something about 2 explosions, there weren't. And someone else mentioned why didn't freedom just go under water, I think he was about too, but was waiting for Archangel to go under completely first. By then Shinn had thrown the Beam Boomerang at him which knocked him off balance before the sword attack. I would guess he just simply didn't think to shut off his thrusters and let gravity take him under water.

I'm surprised that noone has mentioned this yet, but notice the location of Shinn's final attack. If I had to guess I would think that Kira manages to get somewhere with Freedom and it is repaired into Strike Freedom now. The damage from the Sword was right where the torso cannon will be on Strike Freedom. Just to throw out a name, maybe he makes it to the Kingdom of Scandinavia.

Also I believe that the Nuetron Jammer Cancellor was behind the cockpit. It would make sense to go there, that way the chances of it getting captured by the enemy if they just took out the cockpit would be minimal. Remember when Freedom was built EAF didn't have the NJC yet, so it would make sense that if they wanted to capture the unit by just killing the pilot that they make it nearly impossle to take out without hitting the NJC as well. EDIT: The NJC blowing up wouldn't cause a nuclear explosion, it would do the opposite. Remember there are Nuetron Jammers all over Earth. As soon as the NJC is taking out Nuclear power no longer works. Remember ZAFT did that specifically so EAF couldn't use nukes.

Also note there isn't a great deal of rubble on the surface of the water. It seems to me that Freedom just lost some armor type stuff.

Before I really get into my bit on the fight just a NOTE: Kira did not aim for the cockpit. If you go frame by frame you can see he was aiming for the legs (I think it would reduce Impulse's manuverability because there are some thrusters in the legs), it's just that when Shinn seperated it made it look like he was going for the cockpit because his swing went right under it.

Personally I thought it was a really good battle. While I am an ardent Shinn-hater, I'm not a Kira-lover. It may seem that way because most of the dabates around them is Kira vs Shinn or Shinn vs Kira. Personally my favorite character is Dearkka. Anyways back to the fight, using his shield to deflect a blast was pretty smart I would have never seen that coming. Also just for bragging rights, Here (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=48&threadid=13492&STARTPAGE= 15&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear), the second post I made after Guardian posted the picture of Freedom and Impulse I made a comment about launching parts at Kira while ordering new ones from the ship. I do agree though that it made no sense for Kira to "forget" to use his rail guns or the wing guns.

Just out of curiousity (I know noone know) I wonder how many of each Flyer the Minerva has. I would think storage space would be limited. I can see them have 2 of each just in case, but if that is the case then Impluse would be out of action now. Shinn trashed 2 Force Sillouettes and 2 Chest Flyers. He could probably get away with going with the Sword of the Blast Sillouettes, but they would have to take the time to repair a chest flyer. Considering they haven't really done any reapair on ANY other unit on board they don't seem to have the time.

Another thing, it is amazing how much restraint the Archangel showed. Purposely not hitting anything. I know they thought that is what ZAFT wanted, but still that had to be difficult.

Oh, and someone asked about when Talia and Murrue met, Murrue was the head technician working on repairing the Minerva when it was in Orb.

EDIT 2: It's nice that we will finally see the Mass Produced Gouf's next episode!

FelixZeroAlastor

Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:29 AM

I hold nothing but utter dissapointment for this episode. I think that the makers are starting to rush this series.
Really liked that dodge that the AA did against the Minerva.

First off, Kira acted like this was his first time in battle or something. The only other time that he was this stupid was when he got Fllay killed and killed Nicol. The only problem Kira had was worrying about the AA but come on. Kira does have faith in the AA and everyone aboard so he should never be that worried about it. He is also not so dumb to the point where he doesn't focus his full attention on the obstacle that is keeping him from his objective at that moment in time. I am not saying this cause I 'm a Kira fan(I accually like Asuran,Lacus and Lunamaria the best), I'm saying this cause this isn't right. Kira basically only tried to shoot him that entire battle. Where was that unholy beam saber skill that Kira is always using. Even if Shinn knew whare Kira was aiming, he and the Impulse can't keep up with that. Kira didn't even try his trademark kick that he does to everyone. When Kira returns with his new SF he better kick Shinn one good time.

Also something that pissed me off. The Minerva was facing the oppisite direction of Shinn. This means it would take maybe about a minute for Shinn to combine new segments of his gundam. This would give Kira ample time to regain control of his gundam, realize that Shinn's gundam came in segment,s and cut up the core splendor or rail gun the incoming segments, but aparently Shinn can slow down time and combine in what seems like an instant to everyone else.

Now Freedom I believe did explode, but not all of it. I think that maybe the legs and some other parts exploded and Kira escaped with the the remaining cocpit and thrusters into the ocean. But then that wouldn't explain why the Impulse was burned to a crisp and the explosion that huge. Maybe something powerful just blew up cause lets face it, if it was a nuclear explosion then I don't think that anyone would be living right now.

As a side note Kira has yet pilot better than he did while he was in the desert.

PTX-003C

Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:33 AM

that explodsion was indead freedom's, but for creating a nuclear fusion, it takes way more energy to start...so that little sword poke from shinn definitely won't creat a nuclear explodsion....

Madell

Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:09 AM

It may contain spoilers for that ep if you haven't seen this ep youwould be spoiled but don't say anything about other eps that haven't aired yet in a ep discussion thread please

Deamon007

Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:31 AM

I ment spoilers in general because people (including me) usualy start to talk about the upcoming episodes

Kojak

Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by: PTX-003C
that explodsion was indead freedom's, but for creating a nuclear fusion, it takes way more energy to start...so that little sword poke from shinn definitely won't creat a nuclear explodsion....

Actually, while watching frame by frame, I'm not completely convinced it was from Freedom. If you watch from when the explosion starts you'll see a red line trailing back to the Minerva that fades, as their Tannhauser (sp?) would do, and when their ship first enters the scene it is the Tannhauser front that is originally facing the explosion before it QUICKLY gets turned to the side. Now I'm not sure where the Freedom & Impulse were in coorilation to the Minerva, but I sincerely doubt they would fire the Tannhauser almost direclty at those two. I won't say it wasn't the Freedom, but after watching that I'm rather confused... and hopeful!

Go Kira.

Originally posted by: Curium
Before I really get into my bit on the fight just a NOTE: Kira did not aim for the cockpit. If you go frame by frame you can see he was aiming for the legs (I think it would reduce Impulse's manuverability because there are some thrusters in the legs), it's just that when Shinn seperated it made it look like he was going for the cockpit because his swing went right under it.

You are indeed correct. Kira aimed for the legs. I'm also very saddened that Kira didn't use the wing cannons or rail guns. Why not use your last wing cannon or right rail gun on Shinn's final approach? That's all I keep on thinking.

First time poster long time viewer!

Madell

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:22 AM

You are indeed correct. Kira aimed for the legs. I'm also very saddened that Kira didn't use the wing cannons or rail guns. Why not use your last wing cannon or right rail gun on Shinn's final approach? That's all I keep on thinking.

First time poster long time viewer!

Well the one taht was broken could explode then i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Dannynonsense

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:33 AM

yep its true the chairman is just using shinn thats why put him in impluse and wanted him to defeat kira so badly but in kira's defeat its clear that he never was trying to kill shin or disable him at first he was just trying to buy time for archangel to escape to the sea. shinn's victory is a hollow one since kira didnt aim at the cockpit or use the himat system which is where freedoms true power lie's. but still he won which make's the battle strike freedom vs destiny ohh so much better since kira's gonna hand it to him. another thing how impulse managed to make it through that explosion was cheap it should at least have sent him flying.

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:51 AM

Oh, but is there any proof that Kira will be the one who gets Strike Freedom? He might have died.

Millenium-Boyz

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:56 AM

KIRA should have used the HImat system and use the whole 5 beams from freedom to shoot both hands both legs and the head of impulse leaving the cokpit alone, i feel sad i was so angry to see this episode because im so pro in kira and i hate shin so much because he is being such a dickhead and an arrogant person to asuran which is his senior, and im wondering how more arrogant can shin be after defeating freedom. and i think the big explosion in the end of 34 came from nowhere its just the explosion of the laser hitting the sea, because if the NJC explode shin would be in the sea like stellar in the river, and kira will be "the sea" .
i hope Infinite justice or strike freedom gonna kick destiny's ass
can somone tell me who will be the ultimate enemy in GSD ?

DDBen

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:46 AM

You know considering how stupid I found the majority of this episode. (all notes on the battles were posted earlier in this thread) What if Kira used the blast to his advantage to make Shinn believe he had killed Kira. Perhaps taking the sword in a nonvital area of the freedom and detonating say the railguns and wing cannons by overloading them in Shinn's face to make a explosion to hide his escape.

Considering they removed his ability to fight I don't see it as impossible for him to cause a explosion as a smoke screen so he could drop into the ocean and reach the archangel.

Dannynonsense

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:19 AM

hmm when you stop to think about it the explosion had to be from the reactor since it was so large and impulse was burnt to a crisp that explsion did come from freedom because asuran yelled out kira right after it. but in any case freedom's cockpit is in its chest so its possible after realizing the danger he was in kira escaped but this battle in a sense was pure bullshit its like something from a dream sequence because of the way everthing happend and if you think about its the same exact thing that happen in endless waltz with quattre, duo and trowa when they were fighting the serpents on earth. all in all i think the real point of this episode was not the battle but mwu starting to regain his memory, dullandal is minipulating shinn, shinn is growing as a pilot, and asuran see's the errors of his way, and zaft is mostly likely the final enemy.

romancing_xaga

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:51 AM

You peeps out there, there's no reason at all that you should hate Shinn. The writers made it in purpose that we should feel like hating him, perhaps becoz we already convinced ourselves that Kira and friends are the "good guys". I understand Shinn's situation and I respect him. Anyway, damn, Kira lost to Shinn? WTF? hahahahaha, Some guy mentioned that Shinn could never match up to Kira? That's completely a stupid opinion at all. So what if he's the "ultimate coordinator", Its true that it was mentioned in GS, but what was not mentioned was how exactly he was "ultimate". Was he ultimate in sports? Music? of In battle? or in everything? So being "ultimate" is irrelevant on determining who is better among the two. It's right that they're MS have different unique abilities, and they just used everything they got in the battle, (maybe not Kira) but I think Shinn has the potential to beat Kira to his fullest. (someday)

The only thing I hate about the plot is when someone dies in an absurd way, so unexplainable that they still survive in the end, is a very cheesy and lame way to continue the story with the same characters.

telemari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:52 AM

I know that in GSD laws of physics do not exactly apply, but NUCLEAR REACTORS DO NOT EXPLODE! nuclear reactor is not nuclear missile - it's very hard to make nuclear reactor explode, you must use fuel as in nuclear missile and that can't be done from outside of the reactor, only thing that damaged nuclear reactor can do is leak radiation. even if you meltdown the reactor, it won't explode.

anyway. I do not hate kira and I do not hate shinn, is there something wrong with me?

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:56 AM

I think Dullindals goal is to come out looking like a hero to everyone, that he is greedy as hell and that he doesn't want anyone else taking credit for rescuing everyone from war... Like how he altered the camera showing the fight against the Destroyer.

Trying to take out the real Lacus having a fake Lacus doing everything he tells her to. and then with a fake operation try to save the earth from being taken out by the comet, I think that was his plans from the beginning.

And the fact that Dullindal knew Lau ru kruz isn't good either, that alone talks in favor of him being a nut-case.

Anyway, did anyone notice the fact that even after bing hit by Impulse sword, Kira still aimed his sword at the head in the end? Maybe that implies that Kira didn't try to save his own life because he had a plan of escpaing, maybe like emergancy exit and selfdetonation to make it look like death?

Telemari, maybe it isn't wrong, only understanding...

Anyhow, I have a hard time not hating Shinn because he is so inexperienced and act out of hatred and not out of logic trying to do the right thing as Kira. Kira has lost so many people close to him and is still strong enough to stand up and do the right thing because he believes in everyones right to life.

PS. I didn't get an answer to my question.... Is there any proof what-so-ever that Kira will be the one piloting Strike Freedom? Maybe Shinn will get a new unit.

telemari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:59 AM

yeah, maybe freedom have some kind of lifeboat. it's easy with lifeboats in scifi - they aren't here until you need them (as with Dominion)

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
You peeps out there, there's no reason at all that you should hate Shinn. The writers made it in purpose that we should feel like hating him, perhaps becoz we already convinced ourselves that Kira and friends are the "good guys". I understand Shinn's situation and I respect him. Anyway, damn, Kira lost to Shinn? WTF? hahahahaha, Some guy mentioned that Shinn could never match up to Kira? That's completely a stupid opinion at all. So what if he's the "ultimate coordinator", Its true that it was mentioned in GS, but what was not mentioned was how exactly he was "ultimate". Was he ultimate in sports? Music? of In battle? or in everything? So being "ultimate" is irrelevant on determining who is better among the two. It's right that they're MS have different unique abilities, and they just used everything they got in the battle, (maybe not Kira) but I think Shinn has the potential to beat Kira to his fullest. (someday)

The only thing I hate about the plot is when someone dies in an absurd way, so unexplainable that they still survive in the end, is a very cheesy and lame way to continue the story with the same characters.

No, it was mentioned in what way Kira was ultimate... It was because he could become the best in everything, if he set his mind to it... Kira told us in the beginning of GS that a cordinator could only become better than the Natural if he tried, that he had the "capability". And Kira is above that of the normal cordinators capability.

XwingRob

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:45 AM

I'm pretty sure that big explosion at the end was from Taunhauser as well.
I think it's pretty obvious now that the only purpose of Impulse was to take down Kira in Freedom. The Chairman probaly had all the data on Freedom from Jakin Due, said to engineers, "Make a unit to defeat this" and then gave it to Shinn.
Granted that's all pure speculation, but if Dullindal wanted Freedom out of the way, it makes sense. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

darkshadow

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:15 PM

well im not sure if that explosion was the tannhauser, i mean if it was, AA should be scrapped, wouldnt that make athrun scream CAGALLI!! instead of KIRA??

btw can some 1 tell me what song that is that plays when shinn fights kira? it plays in some other fights aswell ( gaia vs, impulse saviour )

XwingRob

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:18 PM

Well, this is where I would say that the artist goofed alot and that the explosion looked too typical. Most likely the explosion is a result with the Taunhauser reacting with the water. The explosion should have looked like a steam explosion or something.

Zwielicht

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:40 PM

Well we know the Shin's anti ship sword went through the torso and not the cockpit of Freedom since I think the cockpit in Freedom is in the pointed chest thing.. As for that explosion it does give the impression of a nuclear explosion but as it was stated before could just be an arist mistake. The first explosion from Taunshaurer was most likely AA since AA was the target of that attack not Freedom. I thought that slice that Kira attempted at Shin was nice but it was not meant to kill he did the same thing to yzak when he first got Freedom. Also don't you think we should give more credit to Rey than Shin? It was Shin than pulled the plan off but it was Rey that came up with it.

Personally I still feel that Kira is more skilled than Shin. The reason why Shin and Rey had to make a plan and use Imuplse to its full advantage was for that reason, to close the distance in skill between Shin and Kira. You might argue that Kira had a better suit well it works both ways that Shin had Impulse. Impulse had the advantage of multple interchangable parts so even if Shin got completed owned at one point he can just switch out which works great since he knows that Freedom wont go for the cockpit. One dissapointment is the lack of emotion on Kira's part. To me this was a one way battle not in the sense of domination but emotional. However Kira did lose this fight. You have to take his godlike skills with his moral code since this is who Kira is but this battle will lead towards good things in the end hopefully.

It sets Shin up for a great fall which I am looking fowards to. Shin has potential as a character once his ego trip ends I think. He's one of the those characters you love to hate. You hate him with all your being but you love watching it when gets whats coming or if he changes his ways but as it was mentioned the creators are making Shin out this way on purpose most likely. Also I would perfer that Kira lose this battle and win in the later on. I think most people who like Kira would agree they'd rather have Kira lose this battle but win the war in the end because the next time these two meet I doubt Kira is going to be as careless as he was now and take Shin seriously.

romancing_xaga

Sun, 06-12-2005, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
You peeps out there, there's no reason at all that you should hate Shinn. The writers made it in purpose that we should feel like hating him, perhaps becoz we already convinced ourselves that Kira and friends are the "good guys". I understand Shinn's situation and I respect him. Anyway, damn, Kira lost to Shinn? WTF? hahahahaha, Some guy mentioned that Shinn could never match up to Kira? That's completely a stupid opinion at all. So what if he's the "ultimate coordinator", Its true that it was mentioned in GS, but what was not mentioned was how exactly he was "ultimate". Was he ultimate in sports? Music? of In battle? or in everything? So being "ultimate" is irrelevant on determining who is better among the two. It's right that they're MS have different unique abilities, and they just used everything they got in the battle, (maybe not Kira) but I think Shinn has the potential to beat Kira to his fullest. (someday)

The only thing I hate about the plot is when someone dies in an absurd way, so unexplainable that they still survive in the end, is a very cheesy and lame way to continue the story with the same characters.

No, it was mentioned in what way Kira was ultimate... It was because he could become the best in everything, if he set his mind to it... Kira told us in the beginning of GS that a cordinator could only become better than the Natural if he tried, that he had the "capability". And Kira is above that of the normal cordinators capability.

I still think Shinn could pose a challenge to Kira's skills, even surpass Asuran's.

Rosak

Sun, 06-12-2005, 01:27 PM

Good episode, but Ummm I'm not sure if this was already discussed but.... if Kira did die, wouldn't they give him a death scene? and if this was in real life, Impulse shoulda gone bye-bye with Kira. And I can't wait to see what Asuran is gonna do to Shinn. (how about Lacus getting a cool Mobile Suit and going on rampage to avenge Kira? Now that would be a good episode)

Terracosmo

Sun, 06-12-2005, 02:22 PM

Awwww, too bad for the Kira-elitists that someone better came along. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Blaming it on his changable parts eh? Well guess what, Freedom is a way better gundam than Impulse so Kira had the advantage to begin with.
Also, to be able to switch parts accordingly is SKILL.

KIRA'S DEAD!

Or rather, I'd wish he was. Not that I don't like him, but it would be damn cool.
Actually, he looks kinda dead. Though somehow I'm reluctant to believe they'd kill him off.
Ah well.

Great episode, regardless. And a real shocker in it's own right.

Shinn rules!

Pwas

Sun, 06-12-2005, 02:28 PM

Hey, i've been on this forum for sometime now and after seeing this episode i decided to join and tell you guys to stop hating on Shin. It shows that his pilots skills are extremely good and capable of competing with Kira. Most of you guys are on Kira's ass because he was crazy in GS but now we are watching GSD. And for THOSE who claim that Kira wasnt in seed mode. Please REWATCH this episode and you can see it in his eyes that he was in SEED Mode before Shin went into it, the director didnt show Kira go into Seed Mode because it wanted us to catch it ourselfs instead of being little kids and having them show us everything. This battle was equally matched and Shin won because he was oragnized. I too find Kira and freedom to be crazy good but think about how over powered he is and when you watch this episode it shows that a mobile doesnt determine a gundams strenght its the pilots fighting style.

Ima get burnt soo badly but i dont care because i watch GSD for the fighting and the new models i can side with neither because i dont care whose the better character as long as they can show me some intense battle scenes.

Thank You Very Much .

http://tinypic.com/5wvyf8
^ Click That For Evidence of Shin and Kira in SEED MODE

Terracosmo

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:01 PM

I just love how Shinn goes "I won't let you always have your way!". So awesome.
Kira flies around thinking he can do whatever he wants. God, I love it when the goody twoshoes gets beat. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

darkshadow

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:03 PM

yup kira was seed from the beginning defending AA, back to the explosion thing, it CANT be AA, because the tannhauser already hit it, and we did see a explosion, if however the follow up to that explosion was that big nuke thing, that would mean AA blew up and every1 on it is dead, it has to be freedoms explosion, or like that post above some sort of weird reaction with the water or a artist mistake, freedoms chest probably got propelled somewhere, kinda like a cork popping of a champagne bottle, saving kira

and ofcourse SHINN ROCKS!!!, DIE KIRA XD!!!

edit:
could some1 plz tell me that song name???

Splash!

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:30 PM

someone, please tell me what is up with that Rick Dom II i saw at the end. The new suit apparently the clyne faction is designing. Are they introducing the Rick Dom to this series too?

Edit: Don't even bother replying to this. Obviously u can tell i am not very upto date about what mecha is gonna be released in the future

ChaosK

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:33 PM

i hate to say this but, shinn isnt going to die anytime soon, i'm predicting he ends up teaming together with strike-freedom and infinate justice just like what happened in GS.

LaZie

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:36 PM

I bet Kira left the bottom half of Freedom and flew off somewhere else with the other half.

EpoC

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:55 PM

this was a Great episode! unexptected ending and all.
little dissapointed that kira lost, but that's a good plottwist.
if he really dies than that would be a even greater twist. I'm a Kira fan all the way so when Kira is gone, Shinn that ****** brat is taking over as the GOD dressed as an Gundam.
now he will be even more arrogant that he will go around and think he can take on anybody.
Hope athrun Goes at him with violence in the next ep, first violence then emotionly that Shinn killed the guy who was like a Brother to him.
AHH what a great series this is, and AHH oh-so again.

GLS

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:59 PM

Amazing episode! The fight was just as good as I would've expected.

Originally posted by: Rosak
if Kira did die, wouldn't they give him a death scene?
I was thinking that, too. They just showed the one quick scene of him before the explosion.

I don't think he's dead.

romancing_xaga

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:14 PM

Of course Kira didn't died. Then what the heck is the ending song showing then, w/S-Freedom and Kira in front means? Yes, if he did died, they would emphasize his death scene, but rather after showing Shinn stab him, they just showed the explosion. Meaning there might be a slight moment wherein he must've escaped, or braced himself for impact. Take note that the penetration on Kira's cockpit wasn't showed from the inside, unlike Nikoru's, auel's and Heine's, which awesomely showed there bloody body being hit. This might mean that somehow he wasn't hit by the sword, or avoided critical damage from it. But, yes, it is very likely that he died. If he did escaped, perhaps he dived in the ocean.

Archangel already submerged in the waters b4 getting hit by Taunhauser. The explosion took place first b4 the explosion of Kira's mobile suit. And 1 more factor that might lessen Kira's chance of survival is the fact that the very strong explosion caused by the nuclear battery is so strong that nothing should be left. Shinn should be more damaged than what he is now, he shouldn't be even still standing there, he should be flinging away from the blast.

Unless, there's a Kira clone : )

Also, I believe that why Kira lost is that he was startled on how he underestimated Shinn's abilities. Also, he used his usual tactics, so Shinn came prepared. The pressure of the situation also contributed on his lost. I think if Kira just ran away he should still be with AA right now. I am stunned by Shinn's performance by the way.hehehhe

fenix000

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:22 PM

KKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A..................!

This is exactly what went through my mind when i saw him get Pwnd! by shin!
I have been watching GSD since it came out and i must say that was one killer of a ep. Id just like 2 note a few things on my mind and whats been said on this forum.

1. Kira was in Seed mod, if u havnt noticed.. then u must lack some oberservation skills.

2. I prettty sure there was to explosions coz they both looked different....(note: someone said there was no steam when the Minerva shot AA, well wawtch it again! and u c white smoke when it was fired.) the first explosion was the AA been hit and that was shown clearly when it happend, and then the screen changes and shows u yet another explosion, im guessing it can only b kira's Gundam!

(If u didnt notice in GS when kira fought asran his gundam was bound with the agis and blown up ! but kira still had phase shift at the time and it made alot of difference towards his survival. His gundam was destroyed and yet he stil lived. this concept can be applied to Mwu surviving his gundam and also kira suriving again in this defeat! After all.! its not the first time kira has been exposed to a big explosion. nothing new there!)

-As for Shin surviving well he has phase shift aswell which pretty much absorb much of the blast and is the reason why he is still standing! dont forget the new parts he got from switching!

3.Kira did fight in seed mod. He also fought in seed mode when he was trying 2 rescue Fray allister in GS ! he got his head smashed becoz he was careless trying to save the life pod! so he was'nt metally focused! and is the reason for kira's fall. I simply dont care if kira is the so called, " Ultimate Co-Ordinator" im pretty sure the director clearly shows u that even with kira's Great skills! he is clumsy, he makes mistakes, he is'nt always focused, he cries like a baby and his friends stat that aswell. esp asran!! To me! i have discovered it shows us no matter how good u are! or what skills u posses.. u are never gona b god-like. You can only do your best and kira himself said that. After all there human beens in the end, Be Extended or Co-ordinator.

4. Ok i have to say this ..Asran u fag! snap out of it! he should leave Minerva and go AA! Though i still think asran is'nt gona do anything about it even with kira's Death! i get the feeling its gona drag on. I hope im wrong there. and he beats the shit out of Shin and REY! WHo da helldoes rey think he is .! interfering like that when asran has the Authority and power to kick his blondie ass.!

5.Shin crying and laughing at the end.. ummmmmm hello.. signs of Insanity.. thats how i describe it ! the poor young boy has been exposed to war for too long and has grown such a big head! this has made him crack many times and with this, his fall will come! ------Swiftly by kira i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif
Just on a side note.. god how many notes do i need to make ! Shins losing it aswell even though his skill raises greatly its coming at a price for his humanity! he is a unbelivable moster on the battlegrounds and that i say without a doubt in my mind! his skills are equal to kira's due to the situation been chaotic and kira's no kill policy.

Im not a kira's Crazed fan but i do like him .. my fav would have 2 be Mwu! Dead or alive he is still a legend ! i also like Bartifield aswell.. duno how to pronouce his name.. =S

And as for u shin lovers.............. Enjoy the moment while u still can.. coz if kira doesnt kill him.. someone else will i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif ------------

ChaosK

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:32 PM

1. the word is mode, not mod
2. its shinn

and now, we've all been hoping for athurn to fuck up shinn for a long time, and i dont think kira's dead either. if the eyes are the key signs to seed mode, does that mean lacus has seed mode? (if you look in GS while shes in the eternal speaking at episode 49 (or 48) her eyes become like that too, yet she hasnt even fought in a mobile suit.

XwingRob

Sun, 06-12-2005, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by: LaZyKiD
I bet Kira left the bottom half of Freedom and flew off somewhere else with the other half.

Yes, if that huge explosion at the end was Freedom blowing up, I think this is the likely scenario.

Edit: After watching the episode again, the big explosion has to be the Freedom, because the explosion occurs from the side of Minerva.

Curium

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by: darkshadow
well im not sure if that explosion was the tannhauser, i mean if it was, AA should be scrapped, wouldnt that make athrun scream CAGALLI!! instead of KIRA??

The Archangel was already at least 90% underwater and the water protected them some.

I still contend that there was only one explosion, they just changed the point of view on it. Like someone pointed out you can clearly see the remenants of the Tannhauser shot in the first scene, and the explsion was clearly still growing. They just simply zoomed out the view after that. If you look at the explosion as it approches Minerva you can tell it is the same explosion as the one after it zooms out. I repeat Freedom NEVER exploded.

BTW: I don't think Neo was recovering any memories in that scene, it seemed to me that he saw something that maybe he could use to try and escape.

Marks

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by: EpoC
now he will be even more arrogant that he will go around and think he can take on anybody.

DUDE! He just trashed Freedom/Kira! He CAN take on ANYBODY.
Shinn rules!

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
1. the word is mode, not mod
2. its shinn

and now, we've all been hoping for athurn to fuck up shinn for a long time, and i dont think kira's dead either. if the eyes are the key signs to seed mode, does that mean lacus has seed mode? (if you look in GS while shes in the eternal speaking at episode 49 (or 48) her eyes become like that too, yet she hasnt even fought in a mobile suit.

Yes, in fact, both Cagalli who believes herself to be a Natural and Lacus have SEED modes.

This episode has been one of the most debated episodes. Most opinions has had light shed on them, so there isn't anything left for me to say that I didn't point out in the two first pages of this thread...

However, Now that someone pointed out the fact that Kira doesn't aim at any vital points of the Gundam, I could also state that this makes him very vounerable because you can easily predict his movements... One factor in war giving uncertainty in who will claim victory is depending on how unpredictable you are and the ability to surprise and do something that the opponent has not seen before in battle. Kira cannot do this which points him at a large dissadvantage in battle.

Very simple, if Kira goes back to fighting for Frey (or at least in the way he fought to protect her) he would go back to being like Shinn is now which would make me call him insane as well. The only difference between Kira and Shinn is that Kira always had a sense of justice and always battled with himself everytime he got in that cockpit.

Oh, and as a side-note... I don't know how anyone could defend Shinn's actions. He is being immoral, arrogant, he is lost in hatred and he is insane... Now if anyone could defend that kind of behaviour, I guess there is no wonder there are murderes in this world

romancing_xaga

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by: XwingRob

Originally posted by: LaZyKiD
I bet Kira left the bottom half of Freedom and flew off somewhere else with the other half.

Yes, if that huge explosion at the end was Freedom blowing up, I think this is the likely scenario.

Edit: After watching the episode again, the big explosion has to be the Freedom, because the explosion occurs from the side of Minerva.

of course, it has to be freedom who exploded, its very unlikely that he didn't exploded. For further proof, take a fucking good look at Shinn's Impulse. it's so wasted, it shouldn't be even flying like that.

k_truong

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:37 PM

lol i just love how much of a hypocrite shin is and what an arrogrant prick he truely is
"i wont let you have your ways" or something along those lines... and shin being king dick himself does whateva he likes whenever he wants.

yes i must hand it to him.. shin was amazing in that fight... luckily for him kira didn't take him out by attacking his head.

i think kira would learn from his mistakes.

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:40 PM

Kira reminds me of Kenshin... And who did not love Kenshin for his ideals?.... As Kira is like Kenshin, he can't die i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif Not yet, there is so much for him to do.

XwingRob

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: darkshadow
well im not sure if that explosion was the tannhauser, i mean if it was, AA should be scrapped, wouldnt that make athrun scream CAGALLI!! instead of KIRA??

The Archangel was already at least 90% underwater and the water protected them some.

I still contend that there was only one explosion, they just changed the point of view on it. Like someone pointed out you can clearly see the remenants of the Tannhauser shot in the first scene, and the explsion was clearly still growing. They just simply zoomed out the view after that. If you look at the explosion as it approches Minerva you can tell it is the same explosion as the one after it zooms out. I repeat Freedom NEVER exploded.

I don't know Curium, it really looks like the big explosion is occuring from the side of the Minerva...

Curium

Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by: XwingRob
I don't know Curium, it really looks like the big explosion is occuring from the side of the Minerva...

Again, look at the first screen of the explosion (after it shows Kira and Shinn following the final stab), it shows the Minerva turning as the explosion approaches, though you sort of have to be looking for it. It is the same scene that you see the follow up red line from the Tannhauser shot.

XwingRob

Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: XwingRob
I don't know Curium, it really looks like the big explosion is occuring from the side of the Minerva...

Again, look at the first screen of the explosion (after it shows Kira and Shinn following the final stab), it shows the Minerva turning as the explosion approaches, though you sort of have to be looking for it. It is the same scene that you see the follow up red line from the Tannhauser shot.

Hmm, I think I can see the Minreva turning...

Edit: Wait... from the second angle of the big explosion, it looks like it's occuring far more out at sea, at least far more out then were Freedom was.
Also, after Tannhauser hit the water, there was a warning signal coming from Kira's right. Shinn did not appear to be attacking from the right, but straight on, perhaps the warning signal was for the big explosion caused by the Tannhauser.

Splash!

Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:12 PM

i dunno curium. I have seen the tannhauser being fired before. it dusn cause that big of an explosion. This was definitely nuclear. The size of the explosion obviously suggests that. I dont get how Shinn, let alone Kira cud have survived anything like that. Well if Kira can somehow survive this one, then nobody can say anything about it being impossible for mwu to survive the gotfried from the dominion.
Hell if all this is possible, then it should be possibe for rau to survive the big head bang Kira gave him, along with that shot from GENESIS

DDBen

Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:28 PM

please not a few things here the second explosion could not have been Kira due to the fact shinn was only about maybe 100 yards which is pushing it from the bits of freedoms head and wing, while on the other hand the Minerva was blown back atleast 20 times as far. Due to simple mass there is absolutely no way for that to take place if Shinn was on top of the explosion. Also note that they clearly show head and wing fragments from freedom meaning that kira couldn't have just ejected the lower half and run away.

I found every bit of this fight stupid and completely out of character as I have stated in my earlier posts. My guess is that the initial explosion is from the Tannhauser hitting the water. While the second explosion was it hitting the seabed , which could easily cause the damage shown to impulse as well as whatever damage freedom likely took. As the parts were scattered in the opposit direction of shinn with the wing fragments closest to him and the head fragments(atleast thats what I believe the pointy bits that look like a V are) are the farthest away denoting that to be atleast Freedom was turned around and heading into the water. Consider also that Kira used a similar sword to the one Shinn uses when piloting the strike so he would certainly be capable of realising that it would go through freedom in turn the only reason to raise his shield like that would be to divert the blade away from a vital area of his suit. Also note they showed no bits of Shinn's sword which if freedom had exploded would have had to have been in the wreckage with the rest of the unit or instead over by Impulse.

XwingRob

Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:42 PM

Oh yeah I got a question. At one point in the episode Minerva called Archangel the "flagship".
Now is that a translation error(since a flagship is actually the fleet's main command ship")? Did she really say flagship or something like "top ship" or "ace ship" or something like that?

romancing_xaga

Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by: DDBen
please not a few things here the second explosion could not have been Kira due to the fact shinn was only about maybe 100 yards which is pushing it from the bits of freedoms head and wing, while on the other hand the Minerva was blown back atleast 20 times as far. Due to simple mass there is absolutely no way for that to take place if Shinn was on top of the explosion. Also note that they clearly show head and wing fragments from freedom meaning that kira couldn't have just ejected the lower half and run away.

I found every bit of this fight stupid and completely out of character as I have stated in my earlier posts. My guess is that the initial explosion is from the Tannhauser hitting the water. While the second explosion was it hitting the seabed , which could easily cause the damage shown to impulse as well as whatever damage freedom likely took. As the parts were scattered in the opposit direction of shinn with the wing fragments closest to him and the head fragments(atleast thats what I believe the pointy bits that look like a V are) are the farthest away denoting that to be atleast Freedom was turned around and heading into the water. Consider also that Kira used a similar sword to the one Shinn uses when piloting the strike so he would certainly be capable of realising that it would go through freedom in turn the only reason to raise his shield like that would be to divert the blade away from a vital area of his suit. Also note they showed no bits of Shinn's sword which if freedom had exploded would have had to have been in the wreckage with the rest of the unit or instead over by Impulse.

I completely understand what your trying to say. From what you are saying I hear a voice that says "Kira can't die? Thats just freakin impossible! theres gotta be some kinda excuse for all of this!"

It's just your imagination speaking here my friend, motivated by your desire for Kira to survive that. But I think what this episode is really trying to convey is that Kira has completely lost to Shinn. He was 100% unprepared therefore he was 100% beaten. Why? It doesnt matter if he didn't fight 100%, the point is that he lost.

Watch the damn thing again - > First explosion is from the Taunhauser cannon. Second explosion is from Kira's destruction. Get it? The explosions you guys say that was from the side of Minerva was Kira exploding.

Both of them are already in the water (AA and Kira), look carefully at the exact moment when taunhauser hit the water, there was a small explosion, then immediately cut and show Impulse and Freedom fighting. From here, the explosion is over. Then when Impulse stabbed Kira, a short slow mo then sudden explosion, next showing the waves blowing towards Minerva, blowing them away from the explosion, from the SIDE. Now they would have fired the Taunhauser in FRONT OF THEM, NOT SIDE OF THEM, since AA is in front of them, not in side. Get it?

Curium

Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
next showing the waves blowing towards Minerva, blowing them away from the explosion, from the SIDE. Now they would have fired the Taunhauser in FRONT OF THEM, NOT SIDE OF THEM, since AA is in front of them, not in side. Get it?

Watch that scene more carefully. The explosion WAS IN FRONT of them, but it turned. Like I said, you have to be looking for it to really notice though.

Originally posted by: splash
i dunno curium. I have seen the tannhauser being fired before. it dusn cause that big of an explosion. This was definitely nuclear. The size of the explosion obviously suggests that. I dont get how Shinn, let alone Kira cud have survived anything like that. Well if Kira can somehow survive this one, then nobody can say anything about it being impossible for mwu to survive the gotfried from the dominion.

We haven't seen it much though. Plus we have never seen it used on Earth successfully. The three times they have tried to use it (before this): twice if was blocked by a Positron Reflector, and the third time Kira blew it up before it fired. Also that explosion was NOT NUCLEAR. Nuclear explosions result in a mushroom cloud, not a big "dome" explosion. I even looked up "positron" online just to make sure, they would definately be capable of that explosion, especially if it ignited some of the positrons in the water. Water is a good conductor so it could potentially grow larger hitting water then it would hitting the ground (sand/non-metallic rocks aren't good conductors). Here are a couple of links at Wikipedia with some info.

Positron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron)

Electron-positron annihilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron-positron_annihilation)

And just a note, Mwu was shot by the Dominion's Lohingrin (sp?), not the Gottfried.

SilverSurfie

Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:45 PM

For the record I'm a Kira fan and a Shinn hater. Now looking at this battle objectively yes Shinn won and yes Kira lost. And it all boiled down to being prepared. A prepared team with less talent has a chance to beat a unprepared team with greater talent. But in the same token does this mean Shinn is better or even on par with Kira? Totally not. Reasons being Kira shooting himself in the foot with his own morals and ideals. But thats why I like Kira, because he is a person of high morals and greater ideals. (ala Kenshin) There is no doubt that Kira wasnt fighting with all his entire potential. In previous episodes I believe Waldfield made a comment about him not being as good as Kira so he had to shoot to kill. This implying that going for the nonlethal blows is much much harder. And I agree with his assessment. If you didnt have to worry about killing you dont have to control every lil action you make.

So lets end all this Shinn > Kira. Because Shinn is nothing more then a pussy whipped, psychopathic, arrogant, egotistical tool. Hes good but not good enough to take Kira mono-to-mono. Zaft just zerged the shit out of AA and Kira... And we all kno zergs suck... Look at the Horde in WoW hahahahaha

romancing_xaga

Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:56 PM

What are you? Freaks? It doesn't have to scientifically make sense, besides your the one who's suppose to watch it again. If it did explode in front of them they would have been slowed down and pushed back a little bit, but since the scene specifically shows that they got pushed sidewards, then it suggests that the explosion was from their side. BTW, I didnt say it was a nuclear explosion. Although I will support the idea that it is not a normal explosion. Anyway, if indeed there was a nuclear explosion it exploded not as a bomb, as you assumed. I believe if there was any nuclear part that was hit, its the battery, whiched leaked energy by the stabbing, therefore realeasing a massive explosion. Besides doesn't matter, this episode wanted us to think Kira died.

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:02 PM

Yeah, but what if Kira really did die?

XForce

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:02 PM

I cannot wait to see what reason the creators pull out of their ass to explain how Kira survives this... Yes Kira must survive for the sole reason because there is Strike Freedom. That is the only reason why he lives basically.

Pwas

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:14 PM

I'm sorry how can you compare Kira to Kenshin. Its 2 different anime and first of all hes not even the main character so hes got nothing to do with anything and from watching the anime since first episode i find him and the AA's appearences in war just making things worst. They should just go back to Orb and do something with themselves because this isnt there war. Who made them the "Justice Leagues" to be on top of everyones business. Think about it what did the Logos do against Zaft and whats this gotta do with Orbs Ideals. And how does Kira own when this episode proved he got his ass whipped, and why doesnt this prove that Shinn can take him. It shows in this episode that Shinn has the ability to take him outs, and even when Kira gets Strike Freedom he will still get owned by Shinn because Kira said it in GS that Freedom was stronger than Strike. And this time its not Zaft remodeling Freedom its Lacus's secret team, so there will be even more of a decrease in power. Shinn will recieve "Destiny" and from looks of it, he will be crazy with this. But i believe in the end Shinn will join up with the AA just like what happened in GS. Just stop hating on Shinn cause he can take Kira anyday.

fenix000

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:29 PM

First of all ...... there is nothing wrong with comparing to different animes, Kira and kenshin are not two different ppl but rather to of the same. If you watched the anime like i and many other ppl have u would realise they fight for there own beliefs and ideals aswell as protecting their loved ones.
And as for AA interfering in battles.. wtf does that have 2 do with anything.. EAF and Zaft soldiers battling are gona die anyways from either side so why not interfer and make it worse for them. And since u bitch about shinn so much lets make it clear to u! --------SHINN beat KIRA! yes ! we knw! he whoops his sorry ass!---------- Shinn does have the ability to take out kira, but what gives him strength is shinns hatred, anger,sorrow and pain! thats his power! Shinn has yet 2 be cleasned like kira, and when he realises that he will knw how hard it is to fight without killing. But ill have to comment about shinn beating kira anyday. NOT GONA HAPPEN ! kira's purpose is far stronger then that of shinn's! becoz he carriers the weight and fate of the world on his shoulders as well as his loved ones.

darkshadow

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:44 PM

who ever said that it wasnt a nuke explosion because of the shape is WRONG
the"mushroom" part of a nuke is first a very big round explosion ( like the 1 we saw in this ep), after that it gets bigger and rises upwards, which creates the mushroom

Millenium-Boyz

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:45 PM

GO FENIX GO Kira GO ZGMF-X20A a.k.a Strike freedom
i agree with you kira is fighting without even trying to kill anyone he was aiming for the small target like arms legs or heads, they are small and difficult to aim, while shin is fighting to kill everyone so he aims for the easy target like the cokpits thats is why he is being so arrogant because he kills more people than anyone else, and i m wondering how more arrogant will he be after defeating freedom

DDBen

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by: Curium
Watch that scene more carefully. The explosion WAS IN FRONT of them, but it turned. Like I said, you have to be looking for it to really notice though.

You are indeed correct Curium in your statements reguarding the explosion. For this to have been a Nuclear explosion it would require a mushroom cloud and in addition watch the Minerva its turning to the side which when the giant wave pushes it makes it look like its sideways this is very easy to see by checking the episode.

Originally posted by: Pwas
I'm sorry how can you compare Kira to Kenshin. Its 2 different anime and first of all hes not even the main character so hes got nothing to do with anything and from watching the anime since first episode i find him and the AA's appearences in war just making things worst. They should just go back to Orb and do something with themselves because this isnt there war. Who made them the "Justice Leagues" to be on top of everyones business. Think about it what did the Logos do against Zaft and whats this gotta do with Orbs Ideals. And how does Kira own when this episode proved he got his ass whipped, and why doesnt this prove that Shinn can take him. It shows in this episode that Shinn has the ability to take him outs, and even when Kira gets Strike Freedom he will still get owned by Shinn because Kira said it in GS that Freedom was stronger than Strike. And this time its not Zaft remodeling Freedom its Lacus's secret team, so there will be even more of a decrease in power. Shinn will recieve "Destiny" and from looks of it, he will be crazy with this. But i believe in the end Shinn will join up with the AA just like what happened in GS. Just stop hating on Shinn cause he can take Kira anyday.

I'm guessing you haven't watched Gundam Seed because the fact is if not for Kira, Calgari , Athrun, Lacus and the AA the world would be in a ice age and the vast majority of the population would have died 3 years before GSD. So the short version is Athrun's father died and put them in charge.

@ romancing_xaga
Go back and read all my posts in this thread before attempting to comment on any single one like a idiot. As in no way do you understand what I said. Also I'm sorry but its a fact Kira lives there is no chance of them killing off any major player at this point in time its simply a matter of how. Freedom had to be destroyed or else there is absolutely no reason for Kira to get a better MS as he already had the most powerful one in existance. This episode made my head hurt for a lot of reasons including it felt like it started in the middle of a episode. How did Zaft suddenly find the AA much less moving in the kind of forces it would take in order to start that kind of operation Kira easily took out around 50 suits considering a major base might have 20 suits and the majority of the nearby Zaft forces had just run head first into Destroy this simply didn't work for it to take place how it did. Much less the fact they showed us the inside of the Minerva and showed that Shinn only had 1 of each unit and all the other MS's were destroyed. One would simply think if they can spare that many suits to go hunt down a single ship they they could certainly provide some temporary MS's to the Minerva's pilots who are all suppose to be Ace's.

My coments in the statement you specifically quoted were analysing the end of the battle. So feel free to comment on what I stated but do not waste anyones time spouting your pro Shinn crap . Also note my problem with the fight was the reused fotage and the blatant disreguard both for the timeline and both participants fighting styles.

darkshadow

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:54 PM

You are indeed correct Curium in your statements reguarding the explosion. For this to have been a Nuclear explosion it would require a mushroom cloud and in addition watch the Minerva its turning to the side which when the giant wave pushes it makes it look like its sideways this is very easy to see by checking the episode.

goddamit READ my post ABOVE, stop with the mushroom cloud theory

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by: Pwas
I'm sorry how can you compare Kira to Kenshin. Its 2 different anime and first of all hes not even the main character so hes got nothing to do with anything and from watching the anime since first episode i find him and the AA's appearences in war just making things worst. They should just go back to Orb and do something with themselves because this isnt there war. Who made them the "Justice Leagues" to be on top of everyones business. Think about it what did the Logos do against Zaft and whats this gotta do with Orbs Ideals. And how does Kira own when this episode proved he got his ass whipped, and why doesnt this prove that Shinn can take him. It shows in this episode that Shinn has the ability to take him outs, and even when Kira gets Strike Freedom he will still get owned by Shinn because Kira said it in GS that Freedom was stronger than Strike. And this time its not Zaft remodeling Freedom its Lacus's secret team, so there will be even more of a decrease in power. Shinn will recieve "Destiny" and from looks of it, he will be crazy with this. But i believe in the end Shinn will join up with the AA just like what happened in GS. Just stop hating on Shinn cause he can take Kira anyday.

Why can't I compare Himura Kenshin and Kira Yamato when they are so much alike? They both has vowed never to kill again and make it harder for themselves to fight by doing so? They both have others to protect while fighting which makes it even harder... They both live by the same righteous ideals of life being important, even the wrong-doers.

What are you talking about? How can they make things worst when they have saved hundreds of lives by interfering in battles... all those mobile suits that would have been shot down and killed got saved by only being damaged by Kira. No one made them the justice-squad except themselves... They are standing above every nation to show that not Plant or Earth can be fully trusted in this war. More people will join Kira because they will realize that everything he does with AA is non-beneficial for themselves but beneficial for the people of the world. EAF and Dullindal controlling ZAFT have both proved to at least our eyes not to be trustworthy.

The crew of AA and the people following AA are the only ones that can be fully trusted because they are an outside organisation not worknig for EAF or ZAFT.

As a side-note I might add that anyne who has watched GS carefully in the battles would realize that Shinn could never be as good as Kira.

kyubisrage

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:10 PM

DDBen

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by: darkshadow

You are indeed correct Curium in your statements reguarding the explosion. For this to have been a Nuclear explosion it would require a mushroom cloud and in addition watch the Minerva its turning to the side which when the giant wave pushes it makes it look like its sideways this is very easy to see by checking the episode.

goddamit READ my post ABOVE, stop with the mushroom cloud theory

Here is a picture of a Nuclear blast that took place in a similar enviroment as was done in GSD 34.

http://www.zvis.com/nuclear/dimg.php3?xray1,sstxray

Please note that Shinn would have been at ground zero for this explosion and thus would have had his suit at the equivalent of standing on the sun. Phase shift armor or not they weren't sure that Impulse could make reentry. So do explain how with the head removed, and thus making a unshielded hole in the top of mpulse. Which would mean that Ipulse would have had no chance of surviving such a blast.

Edited for punctuation sheesh remind me not to randomly rant without it i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Shinji Ikari

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: darkshadow

You are indeed correct Curium in your statements reguarding the explosion. For this to have been a Nuclear explosion it would require a mushroom cloud and in addition watch the Minerva its turning to the side which when the giant wave pushes it makes it look like its sideways this is very easy to see by checking the episode.

goddamit READ my post ABOVE, stop with the mushroom cloud theory

Here is a picture of a Nuclear blast that took place in a similar enviroment as was done in GSD 34.

http://www.zvis.com/nuclear/dimg.php3?xray1,sstxray

Please note that Shinn would have been at ground zero for this explosion and thus would have had his suit at the equivalent of standing on the Sun phase shift armor or not they weren't sure that Impulse could make reentry so do explain how with the head removed thus making a unshielded hole in the top of the gundam that Impulse would have had ANY chance of surviving such a blast.

And you need to make dots every now and then, because I had to read that both 2 and 3 times before I fully got what you said.

Curium

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:25 PM

Dannynonsense

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:31 PM

have you've ever watch rurouni kenshin pwas did you even watch gsd your post is nothing more than BS. are you even aware of the fact that freedom is far superior than impluse the only reason for shinn's victory was kira's distraction, concern, and his no kill oath. which are in fact the same things that kenshin has to deal with. seriously watch the show over dont draw any conclusion till you completely fully understand what has past in the episodes okay. also dont make any predictions since you prediction of strike freedom being weaker than because it was made by different a organization is clearly and absoutely wrong think before you post Dammit

anyways nice episode its a great opening for the battles to come even thought the battle sequence is really fantasy and physics is sent right through the window

MeroTZ

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:32 PM

Wow, What a great episode.

First things first, Freedom didn't explode. Beyond the fact that there is no evidence WHATSOEVER that it did (the taunhauser could EASILY account for that explosion), Freedom having gone nuclear would cause significant problems for the storyline. Namely, KIra (and likely Shinn) would be dead. Since we know they arne't, it obviously wasn't Freedom. MUCH more likely is that the AA recovers Freedoms wreck from underwater. This conveniently keeps Kira AWAY from the "How the hell did he survive" arguments.

There you go, an argument backed by both a few facts and by the needs of the story.

Next issue. I am a Kira fan. Swear to god.

And Kira just got outflown.

Shinn really was on his game here, and he pushed Impulse to its limits. Had it just been him and Kira, he still would have lost... but with Kira distracted, Shinn was able to capatalize on several distractions. Not to mention using several silouettes at once. That leaves me thinking, "Why doesn't he just have the freaking Sword/Blast flyers follow him around, acting as mobile weapon packs?" Now THAT would make Impulse a good Gundam in my opinion.

Thats my piece.

MeroTZ

Note: I based my evidence that the explosion was definately the Tanhauser based on something like Ockhams Razor, namely the simplest explanation is generally the right one. Since we know that the Tanhauser could account for the explosion, and since we know that the Tanhauser was fired,... well, knowing is simpler (and better) than being uncertain... and we are uncertain that the Freedom went nuclear. Therefore, the Tanhauser is the likely culprit.

Dannynonsense

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:42 PM

the whole nuclear explosion i think was just thrown into the episode not needing and explanation and it is possible for an explosion like that to occur because of a critical blow dealt from another mobile suit. that was one of the major issues in 08th ms team if you recall. besides if freedom didnt blow up why was impluse blown to a crisp also all you people talk this and that are you expert on nuclear reactor or nuclear weapons or something. its makes me wonder where you learned about these things was it the internet of the middle east or maybe even korea because you guys talk like you know. the most important thing to remeber is this is anime not everthing deserves an explanation. just accept it alright. okay in episode 34 freedom is gonna blow up since it has a reactor why not make the explosion bigger said Story Writer A to Story Writer B

MeroTZ

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
the whole nuclear explosion i think was just thrown into the episode not needing and explanation and it is possible for an explosion like that to occur because of a critical blow dealt from another mobile suit. that was one of the major issues in 08th ms team if you recall. besides if freedom didnt blow up why was impluse blown to a crisp also all you people talk this and that are you expert on nuclear reactor or nuclear weapons or something. its makes me wonder where you learned about these things was it the internet of the middle east or maybe even korea because you guys talk like you know. the most important thing to remeber is this is anime not everthing deserves an explanation. just accept it alright. okay in episode 34 freedom is gonna blow up since it has a reactor why not make the explosion bigger said Story Writer A to Story Writer B

Impulse was damaged by Freedom stabbing it with a beam saber. The other damage could be collateral damage from the Tanhauser very easily.

Nuclear reactions dont just go Critical. It requires something to trigger it (like a nuetron stampeder).

The fact remains that Freedom impaled Impulse, and that both suits were near a Positron Cannon. My friends tell me a Positron cannon is something like an Antimatter weapon. And Antimatter does a lot of damage.

Dannynonsense

Sun, 06-12-2005, 09:58 PM

dont say this and that happen to justify what you think ALRIGHT everyone who reads watch the damn episode over you will clearly see that shinn was trying to keep freedom away from the archangel so he couldnt escape and aid them SO when was it they were near the tanhauser's fire show me that and ill shutup untill then freedom explodes thats why its in pieces and like i said in my post before not everthing needs an explanation

MeroTZ

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
dont say this and that happen to justify what you think ALRIGHT everyone who reads watch the damn episode over you will clearly see that shinn was trying to keep freedom away from the archangel so he couldnt escape and aid them SO when was it they were near the tanhauser's fire show me that and ill shutup untill then freedom explodes thats why its in pieces and like i said in my post before not everthing needs an explanation

They werne't near the ArchAngel... however, the blast radius from the Tanhauser hit the Minerva! You can clearly see a giant wave impacting it. And Shinn and Freedom are closer to the AA than they are to Minerva.

In adition, the pieces of Freedom we see are not enough to account for the entire suit. They are, though, enough to account for the damage dont by Impulses anti warship sword, and also to account for the armor lost by Impulse.

I'm not trying to tell you waht to think. I am reporting the facts as I've seen them, and my opinion on them. However, I've got every right to defend my ideas. If they weren't worth defending, they woudln't be worth having.

XForce

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:07 PM

If freedom didn't explode how do you explain all the parts of Freedom floating in the water at the end? And that Freedom suddenly disappeared when Shinn is just floating there. And I highly doubt anyone here or watches GSD is an expert on nuclear reactors, it makes enough logical sense that a nuclear reactor will have a nuclear explosion. There doesn't have to be supreme scientific reasoning to prove events happen, especially in anime.

Terracosmo

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:13 PM

Most of you just need to shut up and accept that Shinn fucking owned Kira. Face it.
You can throw in all the "what ifs" you want, it won't change a damn thing.

Shinn was the better pilot. He used Kira's weakness, which is what every strategic and good combatant would do.

Dannynonsense

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by: MeroTZ

Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
dont say this and that happen to justify what you think ALRIGHT everyone who reads watch the damn episode over you will clearly see that shinn was trying to keep freedom away from the archangel so he couldnt escape and aid them SO when was it they were near the tanhauser's fire show me that and ill shutup untill then freedom explodes thats why its in pieces and like i said in my post before not everthing needs an explanation

They werne't near the ArchAngel... however, the blast radius from the Tanhauser hit the Minerva! You can clearly see a giant wave impacting it. And Shinn and Freedom are closer to the AA than they are to Minerva.

In adition, the pieces of Freedom we see are not enough to account for the entire suit. They are, though, enough to account for the damage dont by Impulses anti warship sword, and also to account for the armor lost by Impulse.

I'm not trying to tell you waht to think. I am reporting the facts as I've seen them, and my opinion on them. However, I've got every right to defend my ideas. If they weren't worth defending, they woudln't be worth having.

MeroTZ
okay its true that you do have the right to your opinion but seriously watch the episode overe or just that part and think like this instead of all that blah blah you were saying before " its just anime they dont need to justify everthing or explain it" then you'll see what im sayin or you could check this out

right here (http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/gundam.htm) go to the 08th ms team episode 8: duty and ideals 2nd paragraph

MeroTZ

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by: Dannynonsense

Originally posted by: MeroTZ
[quote]
Originally posted by: Dannynonsense
dont say this and that happen to justify what you think ALRIGHT everyone who reads watch the damn episode over you will clearly see that shinn was trying to keep freedom away from the archangel so he couldnt escape and aid them SO when was it they were near the tanhauser's fire show me that and ill shutup untill then freedom explodes thats why its in pieces and like i said in my post before not everthing needs an explanation

They werne't near the ArchAngel... however, the blast radius from the Tanhauser hit the Minerva! You can clearly see a giant wave impacting it. And Shinn and Freedom are closer to the AA than they are to Minerva.

In adition, the pieces of Freedom we see are not enough to account for the entire suit. They are, though, enough to account for the damage dont by Impulses anti warship sword, and also to account for the armor lost by Impulse.

I'm not trying to tell you waht to think. I am reporting the facts as I've seen them, and my opinion on them. However, I've got every right to defend my ideas. If they weren't worth defending, they woudln't be worth having.

okay its true that you do have the right to your opinion but seriously watch the episode overe or just that part and think like this instead of all that blah blah you were saying before " its just anime they dont need to justify everthing or explain it" then you'll see what im sayin or you could check this out

right here (http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/gundam.htm)

Seriously, I've watched it several times now, and the only problem I've seen is that Freedom magically regenerated its damaged wing for the scene where its been impaled and is IN THE PROCESS OF IMPALING IMPULSE (oops, anyone?). As well, the only explosion we've seen CAN EASILY BE ACCOUNTED FOR BY THE TANHAUSER. Go watch... episode 6? Where this same cannon cuts part of a colony in half. Its comparable in power to a nuke. If you watched episode 33 where destroy fired those quad back cannons, which resembled positron cannons, that it razed a city in one shot.

Pay attention to detail. I wouldn't look for an explanation if it weren't blatantly obvious. Its like you are trying to say that gravity doesn't need explaining. Sure, you dont need an explanation, but most of how it works is so blatantly obviouos that when somebody does explain it, no one really objects.

Also, I've been all over MAHQ. I've used it to get the general story line on all of the Original timeline gundam stuff.

Sorry for all the posts, but its not in me not to reply.

EDIT: Oops, looking more closely, I suppose that is just one wing there on Freedom at the end. having noticed this, also let me comment on precedent from the past. When we have seen mobile suits destroyed in the past (Aegis, Freedom, Strike), we have seen identifyable parts. Floating on the water were none of Freedom's signature parts. For instance, if it had exploded, I would have expected to see a part of its wing floating on the water, or a head or cockpit or something. Again, that tidbit is based on precedent from earlier in the show.

darkshadow

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:38 PM

uhm there is a rule against signing of with your name, are you aware of that??

AlbinoFury

Sun, 06-12-2005, 10:47 PM

not quite sure what to think about this fight, first things though it really doesnt seem like they are building his character to be the main hero, or even protagonist for that matter. His character devlopment is much more like a drawn out bad guy backstory. I mean distraught past, lost love, love of killing, misguided trust, all point to him being a real bad guy, and assuming dulindall goes bad guy too, shinn would definitely follow suit.

Honestly I cant imagine a senario where he would be likem, my bad, sorry kira, i was a dick, sorry everyone i was a bad guy.

most telling trait is his eyes at the end of this ep, pure bad guy material, whether im gonna be right or not who the heck knows, all i know is during gs you could root for kira or asuran, or even sub characters.

In GSD you have a bunch of whiny lemmings, and you have the good guys you used to root for getting crapped on. Honestly this thing could go anywhere.

Terracosmo

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:11 PM

It would indeed be cool if Shinn somehow turned up to be a villain. of course, that is entirely impossible and is just too unexpected to actually happen, but one can always dream.

Also, Albino, POST MORE! We miss you. especially here in the GS/D forum! Do you not recall the days of yore & Seed spamming?!

Aeon

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:15 PM

Finally Kira got what he deserved for hurting Steller.

Terracosmo

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:17 PM

Well glad to see we have yet another guy who thinks this played out well, though I can't say I agree about the Stellar part. Never liked her.
I miss Auel. :/

Knives122

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:20 PM

the way how Auel died was cheap

and OK, I guess Kira did deserve what happened to him(although I dont agree with Freedom actually exploding)(if it exploded then why would there be debris -_-). but oh well, stuff happens.

Now we can finally anticipate the arrival of the Dom Trooper, Destiny, Legend, Infinite-Justice, and Strike-Freedom, oh and Athrun in seed mode

Death13a

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:25 PM

Shinn being manupilated by Rey. Impulse was built to defeat with Freedom with changeable packs and Shinn wil do everything he told to but he is good pilot. And i hink Talia starts to question orders LITTLE BIT. Kira's cockpit could be protected by phase armor same as Impulse wasn't destroyed due to phase armor. So kira most likely enjected .

Terracosmo

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:32 PM

Most deaths in Seed/Destiny are cheap. It's like people are fucking invincible, until the day the directors say "enough already" and just kill people off for some dumb reason.

HeeroRaven

Sun, 06-12-2005, 11:46 PM

Ok 2 things!
Is the ArchAngel destroyed?! I couldnt really tell cause if never showed anyone after the explosion...
Not only was Kira "killed" in Athurans head but if the AA is destroyed in Athurans head wouldnt that mean his woman died? And I would kill Shinn with a rusty coffee can lid!

Curium

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by: HeeroRaven
Ok 2 things!
Is the ArchAngel destroyed?! I couldnt really tell cause if never showed anyone after the explosion...
Not only was Kira "killed" in Athurans head but if the AA is destroyed in Athurans head wouldnt that mean his woman died? And I would kill Shinn with a rusty coffee can lid!

It was damaged a good amount, but it was mostly submerged by that point so the water helped protect it.

Roko

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:06 AM

er...no. Absolutely no way that AA is destroyed, cuz the crew and new mobile suits are all throughout the op. Therefore, that means that they still have an important part to play in this series.

the only thing good that came out of this ep is new mobile suits...I still can't believe that Impulse wasn't immediately scrapped at a point-blank range with a nuclear explosion. well, can't wait to see what Lacus is up to. I sincerely hope that she busts out in Eternal and kill some people...especially Meer.

HeeroRaven

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:14 AM

Anyone have a clue on when we will be seeing these new mobile suits??..Also, The 2 mobile suits in preview which are they? I cant really tell and I know some of yall know so help a buddy out =P..Oh and cane somone give a link to a pic of the doms I have heard so much about?

Roko

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:21 AM

***SPOILER ALERT*** You have been warned.

check this thread (http://forums.gotwoot.net/messageview.cfm?catid=48&threadid=13492&enterthrea d=y)

MeroTZ

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:52 AM

SPOILER

Also, for the Freedom exploding thing. There has been precedent for this type of thing, and we know what it looks like when a Nuclear Mobile suit goes Nuclear.

Namely, The end of SEED. We see Justice go nuclear, and we see Providence NOT go nuclear when destroyed. Not only is this evidence that indicates that nuclear suits dont go nuclear when destroyed, it also shows us what they look like when they do go nuclear. Namely, we get the "nuclear white" pink explosion cloud, which is defined by the fact that its a very bright ball of light.

If Freedom had gone Nuclear, we would have had one of those. We know exactly what it looks like when we have a nuclear explosion, and this didn't fit the pattern. Also, since Justice going nuclear took out the back half of Genesis, Freedom prolly would have taken Impulse, ArchAngel, Minerva, and that jerk in the land Carrier out with it.

There you go, pretty definitave proof (by precedent) that Freedom did not explode.

The wreckage on the water could easily be what came off when Freedom took the sword strait through it, and some of it could be from the damage to Impulse.

FelixZeroAlastor

Mon, 06-13-2005, 01:13 AM

Did anyone notice that there were almost no pieces of the Freedom above where Shinn stabbed in the water. Very interesting.

My opinion on the Freedom's explosion. Not a nuclear explosion. The makers just wanted Kira to go down with a bang. In this case the bang was a very big explosion that fried impulse and pushed the minerva.

Roko

Mon, 06-13-2005, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by: MeroTZ
Namely, The end of SEED. We see Justice go nuclear, and we see Providence NOT go nuclear when destroyed. Not only is this evidence that indicates that nuclear suits dont go nuclear when destroyed, it also shows us what they look like when they do go nuclear. Namely, we get the "nuclear white" pink explosion cloud, which is defined by the fact that its a very bright ball of light.

About Providence not going nuclear, its most likely because the blast was sort of contained or I guess you can say "channeled" (more unlikely) by GENESIS. I dunno for sure though, just a theory.

Curium

Mon, 06-13-2005, 01:33 AM

Well with Providence keep in mind if the Neutron Jammer Cancellor is destroyed before it could go nuclear, then the Neutron Jammers that ZAFT has everywhere would negate the nuclear reaction. It was differant with Justice because of the intentially nuclear explosion was what ended up destroying the NJC.

danholo

Mon, 06-13-2005, 02:54 AM

Haro^2_Tori^2 (http://www.point-blank.cc:7000/torrents/%5BHaro%5E2_Tori%5E2%5D_Gundam_SEED_Destiny_-_34_%5B52514CA8%5D.avi.torrent?info_hash=b8d7ef796 a270b858ddd4b791c3856c9a73f2805)

x hypz x

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:48 AM

kira getting beat by shin? wtf.

Curium

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by: x hypz x
kira getting beat by shin? wtf.

Where have you been?

xat

Mon, 06-13-2005, 04:41 AM

It's rather unfortunate that Shinn won't stop and think of what would have happened had Kira not taken the steps to take down Stellar; she was charged up and ready to blow Shinn to kingdom come.

Dannynonsense

Mon, 06-13-2005, 05:05 AM

yep the guy still thinks he would have been able to stop her. as far as the explosions go will definitely find out next episode when asuran flashes back on the situation. but anyway id like to know how many of you think shinn will cross over to the good side at the end of the series

most likely kira isnt dead but i do think freedom blows up

xat

Mon, 06-13-2005, 05:10 AM

Authors often write in a certain style, making literary patterns which people could analyze and thus draw conclusions from in regards to what may or may not happen or have happened; I won't call this definite but I believe you can apply the same matter here. Wwith the exclusion of Stellar (I think? My memory is faulty this morning), for every important or noteable character that has died, the creators chose to flash an image of them during their death. Did we see this in Kira's case?

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Most of you just need to shut up and accept that Shinn fucking owned Kira. Face it.
You can throw in all the "what ifs" you want, it won't change a damn thing.

Shinn was the better pilot. He used Kira's weakness, which is what every strategic and good combatant would do.

In that ep he was, but over all, no way in hell.

I just can't believe how some of you can accept and defend characters like Stellar and Shinn. Shinn is a mental case who loves killing and knows nothnig about justice; Stellar was "The mental case" who didn't know anything about life and didn't even try to find out... (Well I can understand Stellar since she was the way she was, but never ever forgive her for doing all those things).

romancing_xaga

Mon, 06-13-2005, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Most of you just need to shut up and accept that Shinn fucking owned Kira. Face it.
You can throw in all the "what ifs" you want, it won't change a damn thing.

Shinn was the better pilot. He used Kira's weakness, which is what every strategic and good combatant would do.

In that ep he was, but over all, no way in hell.

See? you just closed your mind to the fact that Shinn could really beat Kira fair and square. If you people keep doing that, then there's no point on watching.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga

See? you just closed your mind to the fact that Shinn could really beat Kira fair and square. If you people keep doing that, then there's no point on watching.

Dude, I watch this anime only because there are people I loved from GS in there. When Kira wasn't in the beginning I was so sad and couldn't wait to see him.

However, if Kira and the rest hadn't been in this anime, then there would have been another person who would be like Kira, and then I would follow that guy. Because Shinn is the punk *** mutha *****

Have you really watched GS? I wonder somtimes, because the skill Kira showed in GS was mad, much better than Shinn has ever showed in reaction, in going Berserk and in everything... Kira defended AA from that colony to earth with only strike, and he was the inventor of grabing packs in the air if you remember, he didn't even have those beams that made it 100 times easier grabing a pack., How many could do that? Shinn would be lame without those beams that control exactly where the packs should go.

chriscant

Mon, 06-13-2005, 06:36 AM

DID NO-ONCE ELSE NOTICE THAT KIRA WAS IN SEED MODE THE WHOLE TIME FROM THE START OF THE FIGHT
nd i wasnt shinn to die so dont say im a suporter of shinn, Kira will return nd kick everyones ass nd Athuran will run to the AA cryin since they obviously aint dead

PSJ

Mon, 06-13-2005, 06:42 AM

The best thing about this ep was the awesome fighting from shinns side, he used his suit to its full capabilites. and with that owned kira quite well yes shinn won.
however kira looked over his shoulder at the archangel every goddamn second and then had 1 milli second to respond to what shinn did, i still think kira is the beter pilot of the 2. his ideals and concerns hold him back this fight, shinn didnt have any and fought whole heartedly to win, kira wanted to be in other places and didnt fight with full concentration.

Shinn won but kira is still the better pilot. dont argue on this.

and what the fuck is up with shinn's maniac face after the defeat, i really hope he gets toasted very soon, he needs it. as for asuran this should wake the idiot up, i hope he can show us some badass fighting that i know he is capable of in the later eps. i would also like to see the old characters from seed back, yzak and diakka mainly. rey and lunamaria is starting to get boring.

overall an amazing ep very uncertain ending tho, i was about to fall of my chair cause of that.

edutz

Mon, 06-13-2005, 06:53 AM

I don't think that Kira will survive this. If you look closely to sword silhouette's sword impact to the freedom, it goes right throuh freedom's cockpit.
The exploding is only the continous effect of the nuke gen installed in Freedom's suit.
On the other hand, I agree that Shinn have lots of advantage.
1) Not because of Freedom's damage, but loss of energy.
2) Kira got lots of distraction of his concern to Arcangel
3) The jammer that Minerva shot in the beginning of battle, made all radar messed up.
4) Impulse have lots of spare parts of it's suit (like V Gundam)
5) Ofcourse, Rey's strategy on strategy is well made!

I don't want Kira's role out from the series for good. But, it will feel wierd too if he survived from that huge explosion!!
Can't wait for next 2 weeks series!! I don't think there will be answer to Kira's status next week though!!

romancing_xaga

Mon, 06-13-2005, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by: edutz
I don't think that Kira will survive this. If you look closely to sword silhouette's sword impact to the freedom, it goes right throuh freedom's cockpit.
The exploding is only the continous effect of the nuke gen installed in Freedom's suit.
On the other hand, I agree that Shinn have lots of advantage.
1) Not because of Freedom's damage, but loss of energy.
2) Kira got lots of distraction of his concern to Arcangel
3) The jammer that Minerva shot in the beginning of battle, made all radar messed up.
4) Impulse have lots of spare parts of it's suit (like V Gundam)
5) Ofcourse, Rey's strategy on strategy is well made!

I don't want Kira's role out from the series for good. But, it will feel wierd too if he survived from that huge explosion!!
Can't wait for next 2 weeks series!! I don't think there will be answer to Kira's status next week though!!

So you think eh? bravo...I say bravo.....

PSJ

Mon, 06-13-2005, 07:05 AM

Kira will have to survive this, if he doesnt, who will pilot strike freedom? infinite justice is for asuran, destiny is shinn's suit and legend is rey's suit. we can't have lunamaria piloting something like that now can we?

if kira dies here and neo turns out to be mwu i will totally lose fate in this series. As for the sword, the cockpit of Freedom is located higher its in the chest not the waist.

Madell

Mon, 06-13-2005, 07:11 AM

I didn't go trough it's cockpit because it's cockpit is in his chest.

romancing_xaga

Mon, 06-13-2005, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
Kira will have to survive this, if he doesnt, who will pilot strike freedom? infinite justice is for asuran, destiny is shinn's suit and legend is rey's suit. we can't have lunamaria piloting something like that now can we?

if kira dies here and neo turns out to be mwu i will totally lose fate in this series. As for the sword, the cockpit of Freedom is located higher its in the chest not the waist.

what the hell? ppl just keep on repeating this?

btw madell..I may believe your correct..if not..well slightly

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 07:35 AM

This thread is becoming more and more of a copy of earlier threads.... What some people need to do is follow the first few pages and then come back with something new... And romancing_xaga is ignoring my thread towards him.

chitgoks

Mon, 06-13-2005, 08:06 AM

the debate is now over... on to the succeeding episodes.. no more kira defeats (i guess...) and this time.. shinn bashing ... death is good.. sliced up MS is better with no new MS given to him.. ha ha ha

1 on 1 fight this time. not another strike-freedom vs destiny+minerva like before.

PSJ

Mon, 06-13-2005, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
Kira will have to survive this, if he doesnt, who will pilot strike freedom? infinite justice is for asuran, destiny is shinn's suit and legend is rey's suit. we can't have lunamaria piloting something like that now can we?

if kira dies here and neo turns out to be mwu i will totally lose fate in this series. As for the sword, the cockpit of Freedom is located higher its in the chest not the waist.

what the hell? ppl just keep on repeating this?

btw madell..I may believe your correct..if not..well slightly

havent even read anyone say the same thing as i did but oh well. thats what i think.

@madell: thats exactly what i said, the sword didnt hit the cockpit, the sword hit the waist of freedom.

Deamon007

Mon, 06-13-2005, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by: chriscant
DID NO-ONCE ELSE NOTICE THAT KIRA WAS IN SEED MODE THE WHOLE TIME FROM THE START OF THE FIGHT
nd i wasnt shinn to die so dont say im a suporter of shinn, Kira will return nd kick everyones ass nd Athuran will run to the AA cryin since they obviously aint dead

use normal englich

Originally posted by: edutz
I don't think that Kira will survive this. If you look closely to sword silhouette's sword impact to the freedom, it goes right throuh freedom's cockpit.

Freedoms cockpit is higher than were Shin hit him

Originally posted by: chitgoks
the debate is now over... on to the succeeding episodes.. no more kira defeats (i guess...) and this time.. shinn bashing ... death is good.. sliced up MS is better with no new MS given to him.. ha ha ha

1 on 1 fight this time. not another strike-freedom vs destiny+minerva like before.

I agree this debate is going nowere fast because no one can see past his opinion (inkluding me)

my thoughts
1 Kira survived as someone already sayed (I forgot who) he took out Impulse main camera at the last minute probebly to get away unseen
2 Kira is way better than shin can ever hope to be

heero

Mon, 06-13-2005, 10:14 AM

Everyone should now be convinced that Shinn is at least as good as Kira if not better. He used impulse to the fullest advantage even though it is not as good as freedom. For those ppl who blames that he won because of his strategy I will say this: When you know you can't win head on, you gotta use your head. It's not all about muscles when it comes to war. It's about strategy. I do admit that Kira is a way better person than Shinn, but I dont think he is suitable to be fighting in a war. If your nice to your enemy, your being cruel to yourself. He might get by the crappy pilots, but when it comes to pilots as good as he is, there's no way he can use the same strategy to win. Especially when impulse can renew it's parts at any time. At a side note though, did anyone notice that freedom's sword stabbed impulse's head at the same time impulse stabbed freedom? I had to watch 2 times to notice that since all the attention was focused on the freedom. And Im sure KIra did not die as many have said. But I don't understand how shinn or kira could have survived that nuclear explosion...

Terracosmo

Mon, 06-13-2005, 10:39 AM

Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.

@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.

I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.

DDBen

Mon, 06-13-2005, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.

@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.

I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.

Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.

However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.

I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.

Jurojin

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:19 AM

He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy.

A) He HAD to give Stellar to Neo, or she would have died, plain and simple. I know it sucks, but Shinn could either give her to Neo and hope beyond reason that Neo didn't get her killed, or just watch helplessly as a loved one died right next to him. Again. Unless you're thinking that ZAFT would miraculously come up with a way to treat her with limited specialty equipment an a war vessel.

B) He was still trying to calm Stellar down. He was focused on her and her mental state, not on what Freedom was doing. If Freedom was not in Stellar's line of vision, she would not have fired her cannons, and Freedom wouldn't have needed to disable Destroy to save Shinn. I'm not saying it's Freedom's fault exactly, as Kira didn't know exactly who and what was going on, but saying that it in any way Shinn's fault is pure fiction. He had her calmed down. She had stopped firing, because of Shinn, and if given some more time, he prolly could have coaxed her out.

valkirie19

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:27 AM

You're right about that. I don't count this one as a victory. If Kira had fought to kill Shinn he wouldn't be there right now. I can't wait til the rematch.

valkirie19

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:29 AM

I sure Kira jumps form his mobile suit at the last minute. If you notice he raises his shield to block his cockpit , but Kira should know that it won't stop the blade. It will give him time to dive out and make everyone think he's dead though.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.

@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.

I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.

Shinn is a mental case, it's as simple as that... He thinks that by killing all "enemies" he will be doing the right thing toward his family (or himself in avenging them or something as stupid as that). He does feel better by killing his enemy because it sooths the pain of the ones he loved that died... It is common sence that people feel better when they are avenged. Shinn has just taken this to a totally different level by blaming everyone that steps on his toes and everyone that is an opposing party to what army he is fighting with...

I would not want Shinn to join Kira and AA because he is such a mental case that he would destroy everything they are working for by going berserk every time he step out on the field of battle.

valkirie19

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:34 AM

Kira and Lacus met Shinn earlier in the show on Orb before Zaft was expelled. The only reason Shinn won that battle was he a Rey did there homework and used the tactic that Kira doesn't kll to their advantage, not to mention his endless supply of gundam parts. Next battle he won't be so lucky.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:36 AM

By the way, Shinn doesn't know who Kira is, he only blames the "Freedom pilot" for his misery. When they met, they were all buddy like. Kira might be Shinn's mentor (although I recent that idea). Kira is too good for Shinn.

heero

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.

@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.

I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.

Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.

However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.

I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.

I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. As for killing everyone that is fighting against zaft, well that's his job. He is a soldier afterall. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).

Originally posted by: valkirie19
Kira and Lacus met Shinn earlier in the show on Orb before Zaft was expelled. The only reason Shinn won that battle was he a Rey did there homework and used the tactic that Kira doesn't kll to their advantage, not to mention his endless supply of gundam parts. Next battle he won't be so lucky.

you should read my reply on the 10th page. Tactic does not mean luck, it means using ur brain btw and that was smart of him to use his impulse effectively since its not as good as freedom.

Originally posted by: valkirie19
Not to mention he's always crying about losing a family member or friend. What about everyone else in the show, Kira, Fley,Cagali,Athrun, Lacus. They never went off the deep end like Shinn has. Kira and Athrun did fight to the death against each other in GS, but not for reasons like Shinn. I 'm sorry but their friends weren't out commiting genocide on whole cities.

you should count the number of times Kira cried in GS, I can promise you its at least as much as Shinn did if not more. And that fight where Kira and Athrun fought was because they both killed each other's friend so they both gone really mad at each other so I dont see how it was different xcept for the fact that none of their frds destroyed cities.

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
By the way, Shinn doesn't know who Kira is, he only blames the "Freedom pilot" for his misery. When they met, they were all buddy like. Kira might be Shinn's mentor (although I recent that idea). Kira is too good for Shinn.

I dont even think they were like buddies at all. It was the first and only time they met so it was more like strangers talking to each other politly. I wonder why they show that flashback of them meeting though cause I doubt Shinn knows who is piloting freedom...

valkirie19

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:42 AM

He definitely was in seed mode the whole time but he doesn't fight as hard as crybaby Shinn, and doesn't have as many girlish acessoriesas Shinn is a barbie doll for Gundam. Not to mention he's always crying about losing a family member or friend. What about everyone else in the show, Kira, Fley,Cagali,Athrun, Lacus. They never went off the deep end like Shinn has. Kira and Athrun did fight to the death against each other in GS, but not for reasons like Shinn. I 'm sorry but their friends weren't out commiting genocide on whole cities.

Jurojin

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:55 AM

@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

Digitalgirl

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.

@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.

I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.

Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.

However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.

I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.

I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).

Shinn just wanted to be the "hero". It made him feel like he was almighty and powerful and better than everyone else.
and Shinn is NOT trying to stop the people who are starting wars. [Where did you get this insane idea from anyways?] He just wants revenge, and to "destroy the enemy"[If he continues this, the war will NEVER stop...unless they blow up Earth.] Shin is one of the one's keeping the war going. He refuses to see that anyone but himself has been hurt, and the pain and suffering he must have caused countless families because of his stupid, yet militaristic thoughts.
[To other people on this forum: Please forgive me if I sound like I'm just repeating your thoughts and stuff. I'll find the quotes and stuff if it's that big a deal.]

heero

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:03 PM

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<

Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.

Digitalgirl

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:10 PM

So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?

??? Have you watched GS?

Kira has been fighting for everyone and no one always. He fights to end battles, in every battle he has made an apperance, it has been to stop EAF, Orb and ZAFT from fighting, you might say that he and AA is the mother between two brothers fighting... No one gives him or AA the right except that they fight for both EAF and for ZAFT just like a mother does... ZAFT fights to destroy brother nr 1 and EAS fights to destroy nr 2... So Mother has to protect them both from doing the wrong thing, and she might get a kick or two for doing the right thing, but eventually, they'll all see it mothers way and stop fighting.

That is the difference oh ignorant one

Mae

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:15 PM

Man, these ep discussion threads are getting long.... But a guess this ep deserves it. Very fun. I loved the scene with the AA turning a corner and running right into their enemy was great, and I liked the ships' near miss too. Shinn and Kira's fight did not disappoint either. Shinn knew Kira would go for the arms and legs, so he just arranged to have them replaced and kept on fighting. I like how at the end Kira realized that his suit was too damaged and Shinn was still in good shape, He knew he was going to lose and was like "No! not here!"

And after this ep I've decided to join the "Shinn is evil" side (note, this is different from the "I hate Shinn" group, 'cause actually I think he's ok, just evil). There have been a lot of hints here and there, his ignoring Athrun's warnings to spare civilians while fighting, his irrational obsession with revenge, his evil giggle after shooting down Kira (really, he's got to work on that laugh), but, mainly, its his red eyes and evil eyebrows. (http://www.gs33d.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=28&pos=263) I mean, just look at that expression. There's no way a guy with eyebrows like that could be a good guy :p

heero

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by: Digitalgirl

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.

@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.

I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.

Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.

However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.

I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.

I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).

Shinn just wanted to be the "hero". It made him feel like he was almighty and powerful and better than everyone else.
and Shinn is NOT trying to stop the people who are starting wars. [Where did you get this insane idea from anyways?] He just wants revenge, and to "destroy the enemy"[If he continues this, the war will NEVER stop...unless they blow up Earth.] Shin is one of the one's keeping the war going. He refuses to see that anyone but himself has been hurt, and the pain and suffering he must have caused countless families because of his stupid, yet militaristic thoughts.
[To other people on this forum: Please forgive me if I sound like I'm just repeating your thoughts and stuff. I'll find the quotes and stuff if it's that big a deal.]

When you reply to what I say you should actually read wat I say before you ask how I got my ideas because I just wrote a whole paragraph that answers ur question. Rather it would be a good question to ask where you get the idea that Shinn just wants to be a hero. Did you not see Shinn's response to Dullindal's speach about defeating the Logo's and end war finally. He was smiling. Why would Shinn want more war so he could be a hero and kill everyone when his family and friend died because of it? Yes maybe he's becoming more ignorant because of his success over time but still doesnt mean that he's doing all of this just to be a hero. Also you should rewatch that episode where Shinn made a long speach with Dullindal way back when Haine made his first appearance. It totally supports my opinion and answers your question of "where I get my "insane" idea from". I think it was insane of you say Shinn is the one keeping the war going because he is only a soldier. If the leader of zaft didnt give any orders to fight, do you think any of this would be the same?

Guardian_2000

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:22 PM

Some people believe in honor and some people believe in duty. Some believe in both. There are others besides the AA and her crew that share these views that they do. Talia for one has sympathies for the AA as shown in 34. Even Todoka but he was duty bound to listen to that pussy Yuna. The EAF saluting Todoka going down in the ship. Honor, Duty, Pride, Selfishness. We get all of these from different angles.

Shinn is totally fed up with himself now as the best pilot. He probably thinks he can walk on water. That smug ass look he had as they approached the AA and he was getting ready to launch. I just can't wait till he is in trouble fighting some enemy when all of a sudden Strike Freedom comes in with Kira or something blowing the weapon up saving Shinn. Utter and total humiliation for Shinn. But first I want to see Athrun slap the shit out of him a few times when Shinn gets back on the Minerva.

Jurojin

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.

*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).

No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.

Digitalgirl

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?

??? Have you watched GS?

Kira has been fighting for everyone and no one always. He fights to end battles, in every battle he has made an apperance, it has been to stop EAF, Orb and ZAFT from fighting, you might say that he and AA is the mother between two brothers fighting... No one gives him or AA the right except that they fight for both EAF and for ZAFT just like a mother does... ZAFT fights to destroy brother nr 1 and EAS fights to destroy nr 2... So Mother has to protect them both from doing the wrong thing, and she might get a kick or two for doing the right thing, but eventually, they'll all see it mothers way and stop fighting.

That is the difference oh ignorant one

No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?

heero

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<

Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by: Jurojin

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.

*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).

No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.

Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong.

>>>No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?<<<

No, they gave themselves the right to interfere because they know that what they are doing is to help end the war, it doesn't really help that EAF and ZAFt is throwing in more guns in the fire to make it pop even louder. Dullindal claims to be fighting for justice, Logos also claims to fight for justice... So why is everyone fighting? This is stupid... The only reason AA started fighting was because Zaft and EAF started fighting, thus, AA can't be wrong because they aren't taking sides but fighting for both... Kira has saved countless by shooting a lot of MS down and he has also saved the Minerva, Orb military... He saves lives that EAF and ZAFT is destroying...

No one gave him the right or told him this is what you need to do. He and AA tries to save everyone withour trying to gain anything from this war whilst both EAF and ZAFT leaders are trying to gain something.. The ones who does something without thinking of themselves must be the ones that are correct when trying to save something. Because they all claim that is what they want.

Originally posted by: heero

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

Why is it weak?

And that exactly what is so wrong with Shinn, he is mad, he is insane and needs help. Which one would you rather have, a person who just loves to shoot people or the one who does it because he is told to?

My argument is not weak because it is based upon how actions and war are born... With people like Shinn, war could never end and with people like Kira war is fought for everyone to end with the smallest amount of damage... That is where the difference in following an order with a smile and with a sad face changes so much.

PSJ

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<

Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

okay saying that shinn follows orders is wrong cause he doesnt. he follows himself and no one else. did he follow orders when he took stellar back to neo? he is disrespecful to superiors and acts as if he is the bigshot on the minerva. the only reason he fought freedom was to avenge stellar for his own personal gain.

i would like to end this with im not saying this because i dislike shinn which i do. i say it because its like that, he does as he pleases and follows the orders he wants to follow.

Shinji Ikari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:48 PM

I'd have to bow to that.... You are totally correct... SO I'd have to change what I said to following orders to go out to the battle field.

Jurojin

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:49 PM

Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong

i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif

Wow, you just have a one track mind, don't you. You admit you're wrong, but then stick with the same unreasonable line.

Ok, I'll be Shinn's advocate for a moment: "I am a soldier for ZAFT. My job is to stop the enemy, whomever it may be at the time."

That right there justifies, to himself at least, every life taken in combat, as well as his attempt to kill Kira.

on a more personal level "My family was killed in part due to war and the government's choice to make our country hostile ground, which is a result of their attempts to do nothing towards one side or the other at war. the EAF has tortured and scarred Stellar with their experiments, and was later killed by Freedom. (in his mind, though the details of her death are debated here). I must destroy the EAF/LOGOS for their atrocites, and Freedom for being reponsible for the death of my friends."

There, so far most of what he's done has been rationalized and justified IN HIS MIND.

I dare you to come up with a reason that someone with that mindset should "Suddenly realize what he's been doing is wrong" that does not include your own sense of right and wrong forced on him. In the situation that he's in, with the experiances that he's had, with the mindset I've described, there is absolutly no reason he should change his stance or ways that doesn't include "Well, he's wrong in my mind and in what I see to be the grand scheme of things."

heero

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Jurojin

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.

*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).

No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.

Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong.

>>>No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?<<<

No, they gave themselves the right to interfere because they know that what they are doing is to help end the war, it doesn't really help that EAF and ZAFt is throwing in more guns in the fire to make it pop even louder. Dullindal claims to be fighting for justice, Logos also claims to fight for justice... So why is everyone fighting? This is stupid... The only reason AA started fighting was because Zaft and EAF started fighting, thus, AA can't be wrong because they aren't taking sides but fighting for both... Kira has saved countless by shooting a lot of MS down and he has also saved the Minerva, Orb military... He saves lives that EAF and ZAFT is destroying...

No one gave him the right or told him this is what you need to do. He and AA tries to save everyone withour trying to gain anything from this war whilst both EAF and ZAFT leaders are trying to gain something.. The ones who does something without thinking of themselves must be the ones that are correct when trying to save something. Because they all claim that is what they want.

Originally posted by: heero

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

Why is it weak?

And that exactly what is so wrong with Shinn, he is mad, he is insane and needs help. Which one would you rather have, a person who just loves to shoot people or the one who does it because he is told to?

My argument is not weak because it is based upon how actions and war are born... With people like Shinn, war could never end and with people like Kira war is fought for everyone to end with the smallest amount of damage... That is where the difference in following an order with a smile and with a sad face changes so much.

Like you said, Shinn needs help. And what does he get? More and more of his loved ones died. So how can he be the one to blame and how can he be hated. And of course Kira is the ideal personality and can even be compared to God but that kind of thing dont happen in real life. You wont see a person running out in the middle of a war between to countries and tries to stop them because why? That person will end up dead. Kira is acting like he is because the story is suppose to make him like a hero and save the day. While Shinn is more a typical realistic person. If someone goes and kills your whole family, you would want to take revenge on that person too rather than being mister nice guy and tells him to go home and not do it again.

DDBen

Mon, 06-13-2005, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by: Jurojin

A) He HAD to give Stellar to Neo, or she would have died, plain and simple. I know it sucks, but Shinn could either give her to Neo and hope beyond reason that Neo didn't get her killed, or just watch helplessly as a loved one died right next to him. Again. Unless you're thinking that ZAFT would miraculously come up with a way to treat her with limited specialty equipment an a war vessel.

I've said this before if he had any intention of trying to save her he would have done 1 of 2 things. Either Shinn would have surrendered with Stellar or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her. As instead he turned her over to Neo and ran back to the Minerva its my feeling Shinn abandoned her instead of protecting her and in turn gave him a reason to blame someone else if something happened to her.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
B) He was still trying to calm Stellar down. He was focused on her and her mental state, not on what Freedom was doing. If Freedom was not in Stellar's line of vision, she would not have fired her cannons, and Freedom wouldn't have needed to disable Destroy to save Shinn. I'm not saying it's Freedom's fault exactly, as Kira didn't know exactly who and what was going on, but saying that it in any way Shinn's fault is pure fiction. He had her calmed down. She had stopped firing, because of Shinn, and if given some more time, he prolly could have coaxed her out.

Indeed upon learning it was Stellar Shinn attempted to calm her down but only after Kira shot down Neo did it matter. Had Neo not been shot down then Stellar wouldn't have stopped for Shinn and instead if Shinn tried saying anything Neo would have told Stellar that Shinn was bad and trying to kill Stellar. In every case Stellar had chosen Neo over Shinn.

I would also like to say that PSJ definatly has stated the facts earlier on this page about Shinn I have no reason to quote this.

Jurojin

Mon, 06-13-2005, 01:02 PM

or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her

Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?

heero

Mon, 06-13-2005, 01:05 PM

And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...

DDBen

Mon, 06-13-2005, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by: Jurojin

or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her

Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?

Originally posted by: heero
And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...

Both of these are unlikely to work the fact is they are more likely then Neo sending his Ace off to work on a bunny farm. The point is his actions were not those of someone trying to protect something but instead those of someone attempting to pass the buck so he doesn't have to take responsability. I would say that having Steller kill tens of thousands of people with destroy was clearly a much better option then doing anything that could instead endanger your own life.

Dannynonsense

Mon, 06-13-2005, 01:54 PM

most of you guys talking right now are real idiots i mean seriously at this point of the story do you think shinn is the same when GSD first started all that crap he was saying its out the window he has no remorse for his actions blaming everyone else for things that are his fault. you guys are in love with the character too much you talk as if all the things that shinn is doing is right and everthing the AA is doing is wrong, everyone from eaf to zaft in the story is saying there fighting to protect themselves wrong there being manipulated by people who are causing wars for their own gain. so why is what the AA is DOING WRONG. one more thing for those of you who think shinn now wholes supremacy in the GSD shinn lovers just shut up okay clearly that fight BS accept shinn is just a madman whose gonna die

FelixZeroAlastor

Mon, 06-13-2005, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: Jurojin

or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her

Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?

Originally posted by: heero
And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...

Both of these are unlikely to work the fact is they are more likely then Neo sending his Ace off to work on a bunny farm. The point is his actions were not those of someone trying to protect something but instead those of someone attempting to pass the buck so he doesn't have to take responsability. I would say that having Steller kill tens of thousands of people with destroy was clearly a much better option then doing anything that could instead endanger your own life.

All right I am sorry but please spare me. He was indeed trying to protect Stellar when he gave her to Neo. At the moment it was a better option than watching her suffer until she gets disected alive or dies on the bed all scared and crying. I don't know about you but I would have done the same thing. He wasn't trying to dodge responsibility. He was doing the only thing that he could do to possibly save her. He couldn't have possibly known that Neo was going to have her slaughter three cities full of innocent people with the Destroy. If you love someone are you just going to let them suffer and be disected when you promised to protect them or are you going to give them back to the only person who could possibly save them. I would choose the second one cause it is what the average sane person would do. If I was Shinn I would probably want revenge on Kira too. Even tough Stellar deserves no kind of forgiveness whatsoever from anyone Shinn loved her and she loved him and love makes you do stupid things. Example: While Kira was fighting Rau he flew straight for Fllay completely ignoring the most dangerous suit on the field at the moment. I 'm not saying this cause I like Shinn just so you know.

Jurojin

Mon, 06-13-2005, 02:18 PM

Yeah, thread's getting pointless now, with both sides being close-minded on the issues at hand.

*places brick wall b/w two sides to watch them bash their heads against it*

There we go, that looks about right....

xat

Mon, 06-13-2005, 02:28 PM

Interesting how people go about defining what the "typical person" would be like. You can't justify a common mentality so simply. I'd say that pre-GSD, Kira was about as human as... well, myself for one. You're given two points of views, one person may handle the same situation differently, but it doesn't make them ... for lack of better word, atypical. I'm not sure what kind of normal society (this can vary in itself) some live in, but typical nature can be derived from the kind of atmosphere someone is brought up in.

Dare I say, Kira is just as guilty of playing the berserker role as Shinn pre-GSD. When Tolle was killed, Kira's (and even Athrun's) mentality mirrored Shinn's own: kill the enemy for satisfaction. The difference now is that you have someone who has had time to reflect on such cases; I believe Kira strikes a point of wisdom inbetween GS and GSD, whereas Shinn has yet to even stride for any such pinnacle (or realize that he may have to for that matter).

As for who is the better pilot, I certainly don't doubt Shinn's skill. He's probably hit the apex of his performance, although I'm quite interested in how he'd compare to Athrun. Athrun? Yea, well we've already seen that he's about as capable as the benchmark; when he and Kira go at it, they're in a state of brinkmanship and in one instance hit stalemate, which is rather scary. Kira still seems to be the only one who could, uh, pop his seed (eheh) at will, under little pressure and such. The others will pop under pressure or out of extreme emotional cycling. Kira was wrecked in this episode, but I don't believe it justifies the overall level of skill. Perhaps this time Shinn may have been better due to his exploiting Kira's weakness--though it is one that Kira could probably override easily; the desire not to kill costs him pretty badly. Kira factors out enormous target vs. several segmented subsystems for the sake of his opponents and his conscience. We've already seen that he'll still make exceptions in certain situations though (saving Shinn vs. allowing Stellar's rampage to continue)... I think Kira is exceedingly better, although he did get pummeled due to his weakness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cagalli go at it again, wasn't she able to berserk during the last episodes of GS? A yellow seed? They didn't show enough of that ;-;!

On a lighter note I really like Haro^2 & Tori^2 :-)

http://img193.echo.cx/img193/363/shinndead3sr.png

^ i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif~~~~~

MeroTZ

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by: xat
Interesting how people go about defining what the "typical person" would be like. You can't justify a common mentality so simply. I'd say that pre-GSD, Kira was about as human as... well, myself for one. You're given two points of views, one person may handle the same situation differently, but it doesn't make them ... for lack of better word, atypical. I'm not sure what kind of normal society (this can vary in itself) some live in, but typical nature can be derived from the kind of atmosphere someone is brought up in.

Dare I say, Kira is just as guilty of playing the berserker role as Shinn pre-GSD. When Tolle was killed, Kira's (and even Athrun's) mentality mirrored Shinn's own: kill the enemy for satisfaction. The difference now is that you have someone who has had time to reflect on such cases; I believe Kira strikes a point of wisdom inbetween GS and GSD, whereas Shinn has yet to even stride for any such pinnacle (or realize that he may have to for that matter).

As for who is the better pilot, I certainly don't doubt Shinn's skill. He's probably hit the apex of his performance, although I'm quite interested in how he'd compare to Athrun. Athrun? Yea, well we've already seen that he's about as capable as the benchmark; when he and Kira go at it, they're in a state of brinkmanship and in one instance hit stalemate, which is rather scary. Kira still seems to be the only one who could, uh, pop his seed (eheh) at will, under little pressure and such. The others will pop under pressure or out of extreme emotional cycling. Kira was wrecked in this episode, but I don't believe it justifies the overall level of skill. Perhaps this time Shinn may have been better due to his exploiting Kira's weakness--though it is one that Kira could probably override easily; the desire not to kill costs him pretty badly. Kira factors out enormous target vs. several segmented subsystems for the sake of his opponents and his conscience. We've already seen that he'll still make exceptions in certain situations though (saving Shinn vs. allowing Stellar's rampage to continue)... I think Kira is exceedingly better, although he did get pummeled due to his weakness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cagalli go at it again, wasn't she able to berserk during the last episodes of GS? A yellow seed? They didn't show enough of that ;-;!

On a lighter note I really like Haro^2 & Tori^2 :-)

http://img193.echo.cx/img193/363/shinndead3sr.png

^ i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif~~~~~

The key difference with Kira playing the berserker was that he felt bad about it. It was something he didn't like about himself, and this allowed him to change. He has already grown past revenge 5 episodes after the Athrun fight, when he has the opportunity to kill Yzak and flashes back to Yzak's killing of a shuttle load of innocents (this damned Yzak in my mind. Saving Cagali helps... a little). At that point, just a little while later, Kira has made his choice not to kill if he doesn't have to (remember, he didn't hesitate to kill Rau. He probably wont if he gets another chance at Shin, too).

Shinn has shown no such developement, at all, in this series. However, I do think he's a great character. I just dont like him and hope he dies.

And I thought cagali had a red SEED? Was it yellow?

telemari

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:25 PM

SEED color is based on eyes color, so Cagalli has yellow (or kinda brown) SEED.

FelixZeroAlastor

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:32 PM

I am pretty sure that Athrun can open his seed at will just like Kira. Just noone has given him reason enough to do it yet. Cagalli... I'm not sure about her. One thing is for sure though. When those seeds open then they better come with a serious can of ass whooping for whoever they are opening them for cause they need to make up for not doing it these past 34 episiodes. Man how I still wish Cagalli went seed on Shinn when he decided to butcher the orb ships. Would've been interesting but didn't happen... oh well.

antoine

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:38 PM

They're mixing up seed colors for some reason because last time I saw Kira going into seed mode Athrun's green seed was shown.

Motteh

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:43 PM

first of all i want to point out i like both Shinn and Kira as characters and no i won't pick a favourite..

Freedom got wrecked that much is certain, lots of debris floating in the ocean as you can see in the ending shots
although reality and common sense state that Kira can't possibly be alive we also have seen him survive a similar
scene back in GS (Athrun/Kira fight where Athrun self destructed), that plus the fact there's info about a new and improved Freedom i think we haven't seen the last of Kira

from the flashes of the coming episodes i assume that the Destiny Gundam will finally make it's appearance
so Shinn will get Destiny, Impulse is passed on the whomever, i don't care to much about that
concluding from episodes 33 and 34 it looks like Athrun got some sense knocked back into him
Gladys' statements and Kira's presumed death should have created a shock big enough for him to come back to reality and be the skilled pilot he obviously was back in GS

to conclude, i'm happy for Shinn and hope he finds some piece in his heart now, the boy really needs it
Rey needs to stop fuelling Shinn's rage (yes yes he fuels it just listen to what he says to Shinn all the time)
and Kira will most likely be back with a brand new suit, and i'm very anxious to see Shinn's reaction when and if he recognizes the pilot and suit he'll be fighting once more (well most likely be fighting once more)

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
I am pretty sure that Athrun can open his seed at will just like Kira. Just noone has given him reason enough to do it yet. Cagalli... I'm not sure about her. One thing is for sure though. When those seeds open then they better come with a serious can of ass whooping for whoever they are opening them for cause they need to make up for not doing it these past 34 episiodes. Man how I still wish Cagalli went seed on Shinn when he decided to butcher the orb ships. Would've been interesting but didn't happen... oh well.

to be honest, and this is not just a Shinn fanboy comment, Shinn would've whooped Cagalli's ass if it was one on one, because i really think that you can't compare Shinn and Cagalli as mobile suit pilots
it's true that Cagalli fought at Yakin Due (sp??) and killed some folks and even went Seed there
but based on actual fighting experience you have to admit that Shinn has the advantage over Cagalli
but ofcourse we saw in this episode experience isn't everything because the more experienced Kira (which i still think him to be) lost to Shinn

Originally posted by: antoine
They're mixing up seed colors for some reason because last time I saw Kira going into seed mode Athrun's green seed was shown.

that's not true actually
last time we actually saw Kira's seed pop was in episode 32, the Destroy fight and it clearly is purple (11:15 on episode 32)

DDBen

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
All right I am sorry but please spare me. He was indeed trying to protect Stellar when he gave her to Neo. At the moment it was a better option than watching her suffer until she gets disected alive or dies on the bed all scared and crying. I don't know about you but I would have done the same thing. He wasn't trying to dodge responsibility. He was doing the only thing that he could do to possibly save her. He couldn't have possibly known that Neo was going to have her slaughter three cities full of innocent people with the Destroy. If you love someone are you just going to let them suffer and be disected when you promised to protect them or are you going to give them back to the only person who could possibly save them. I would choose the second one cause it is what the average sane person would do. If I was Shinn I would probably want revenge on Kira too. Even tough Stellar deserves no kind of forgiveness whatsoever from anyone Shinn loved her and she loved him and love makes you do stupid things. Example: While Kira was fighting Rau he flew straight for Fllay completely ignoring the most dangerous suit on the field at the moment. I 'm not saying this cause I like Shinn just so you know.

Please not I for one lack any reason to justify the Love between Stellar and Shinn that so many people like to point out. To me Stellar loves Neo he's the person she always called out for first and the one that she always listened to and followed reguardless. While on the other hand Shinn aside from claiming he would protect Stellar as to me he saw her as a defenceless girl more of a sister really then a lover at any point. Shinn never so much as kissed her the most relevant thing we have is flying naked time when she was in destroy which really just showed she was glad to see him. In the end Neo's words were more powerful then Shinn's and thus Kira disabled Destroy.

I will state something once again I have absolutely NO idea how Stellar could have died and her final words remain to be directly translated to "Shinn like" and not "Shinn I love you" as was interpreted by subbers as Suki litterally means like I see her statement more of one made to a older brother who just protected his sister then of one lover to another. Also please note that when she dies that Shinn remembers his sisters death above that of his parents which continues to aim me at she was more of a sibling.

You can absolutely love a sister or brother in a differn't way and I do see that Shinn could only see her as a victum who he wanted to try and protect from the harshness of war. Also please note comparing Fllay to Stellar is just something that shouldn't be done. Fllay is rather close to Shinn in that they both went insane upon watching there family die in front of them and in the end Fllay right before dying had finally turned around and started regretting what she had done and in turn we had naked time with Kira and Fllay where she became Kira's guardian angel.

In the end I believe Stellar really was more of a reflection on Kira as a what if situation. One where Fllay instead of being the girl who snapped was instead Shinn who had snapped and become a MS pilot. Where instead Stellar much like Shinn was forced into a position where she believed she had to fight in order to protect those closest to her much like Kira did in all of Gundam Seed.

As far as Shinn goes realise that even after finding out it was Stellar and after Neo was shot down that Shinn did not blame Neo or Stellar but instead Kira who was nothing more or less then the one to disable Stellars suit and save Shinn's life. Perhaps if Shinn had bothered to check on Stellar, who obviously was not bleeding and also had no noteable disfigurement, was infact dead or had just had a problem that may have been treatable before dumping her in a lake she could have been saved. Or had he really wanted to avenge her and in turn have his actions be for her it would have to me atleast been more fitting for him to take her pendant and wear it for the rest of the series. All Shinn does instead is toss the body and his humanity and go into vengence mode the guy at this point in the series is a complete nutcase and I find that case impossible to argue.

monkeyman

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:49 PM

shin needs to die. Kira didn't even go into seed mode and if he was trying to kill him he would of taken down shin no problem. I seriously hate whoever made destiny right now. They made the main charecter the worst in the world and i think they need to die right along with shin (kira is my favorite charecter)

Motteh

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by: monkeyman
shin needs to die. Kira didn't even go into seed mode and if he was trying to kill him he would of taken down shin no problem. I seriously hate whoever made destiny right now. They made the main charecter the worst in the world and i think they need to die right along with shin (kira is my favorite charecter)

well it's obvious Kira is your fav but for the record, Kira WAS in Seed mode, they just didn't show his seed popping like with Shinn's, you get an eyeshot of Kira in the latter part of the episode (17:55 into the episode) and you can clearly see he is in seedmode (no sparkle and such you know)

edit: just look at the way Kira's eyes look at 3:05 into the episode and 17:55 into the episode (3:05 is before the opening and 17:55 obviously after it)

Pwas

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:56 PM

WTF Kiras got no purpose in GSD, hes no longer the main character. A matter of fact i think Kira was only in GSD to be defeated by Shinn to show Shinns power. Hes got no purpose or else he would be the main character instead of Shinn. As for your comment on Shinn not being able to take out Kira, thats bs because he just did like in this episode proves. Kira doesnt have the faith of the world on his hands and protecting his love ones because hello this isnt GS this is GSD and hes no longer the main character. So go cry some more under your bedsheets that kira got his ass kicked !

Jurojin

Mon, 06-13-2005, 03:57 PM

disregard, was beaten to the punch on Kira being in Seed Mode.

Motteh

Mon, 06-13-2005, 04:00 PM

ChaosK

Mon, 06-13-2005, 04:01 PM

Then again Shinn's going down the exact path kira was.

Jurojin

Mon, 06-13-2005, 04:15 PM

No, while similar, there is a large difference.

1) Kira vs Athrun: Both were friends before, and they didn't want to kill each other at first, until friends died- then after that they calmed down and worked it out (after Strike and Aegis blew up).

2) Kira vs Shinn: Neither knew of the other, and all Shinn has known from Kira's actions is pain, and misery. (not that it was Kira's intention). Shinn only wants Kira's head on a pike, and has no interest in being friends with him.

Because of that difference, Shinn has a different path- it looks similar, but it's not.

MeroTZ

Mon, 06-13-2005, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by: Pwas
WTF Kiras got no purpose in GSD, hes no longer the main character. A matter of fact i think Kira was only in GSD to be defeated by Shinn to show Shinns power. Hes got no purpose or else he would be the main character instead of Shinn. As for your comment on Shinn not being able to take out Kira, thats bs because he just did like in this episode proves. Kira doesnt have the faith of the world on his hands and protecting his love ones because hello this isnt GS this is GSD and hes no longer the main character. So go cry some more under your bedsheets that kira got his ass kicked !

Kira is not the main character, he is the Hero.

Shinn may not end up being the main villain, but he's certainly on the right track.

If you compare the characters, Shinn has been on the way down since the start of the series. He's gone from standard soldier to hardened, cocky, battle butcher. Directly opposite of Kira.

And in this series, Kira has grown into more of a Hero character than before. We dont see any of the doubt, or the confusion of the first series. Kira is confident in his decisions, and is not worrying about whether what he is doing is right. He believes his actions are right, and acts on them.

Think of this like Star Wars where Shinn is Anakin. This is the story of his fall, and Kira is like Obi Wan. His purpose is to be the hero, to protect the people, save the girl, and find the treasure. Or something like that.

ch4kz

Mon, 06-13-2005, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by: Digitalgirl

Originally posted by: PTX-003C

Originally posted by: Mut@chi

Originally posted by: PTX-003C

Stupid fucking fight.

I hate this MAIN CHARACTER HAS TO WIN bullshit.

what are you talking about...kira just lost today....
main characters does lose
What the fuck?

it's true...the director announced long time ago that Kira is the main charactor in gsd

.....Well I dislike shinn...and I hate him even more after he started going insane...but he is a decent character..it was a bit of a BS fight though....but KIRA SEEMED to be in SEED mode the whole time...but what is confusing me is that don't they always show when someone goes seed?

I am not sure what to beleive about these long forgotten quotes above, Did the director actually announce that Kira was the main character of GSD. if so, everything makes so much more sense. Shinn beating Kira, sets Shinn up for a major fall in later episodes. If not Then Kira is the Hero or at least that is my opinion. I think Shinn is turning evil, he may even turn out to be a bad guy. If not how will the director get shinn out of the mental state he is in to make him out to be the Hero..or the MAIN character, which is questionable...because some people say that the director already announced Kira was the main character. Shinn I think is insane. I dislike Shinn a lot but that is not really clouding my judgment about anything. Shinn fought really really well, he out piloted Kira in that fight, but that was for a lot of reasons already mentioned.

For the record Kira is most definatley alive, this reminds of the time when athurna destroyed Kira's MS, it was already announced that Kira is piloting Strike Freedom...and about the explosion I am totoally lost on that., however Kira's fate probably won't be revealed for a couple of eps.

Athuran should most def come back to being normal after this last ep. This was def. a wake up call, but who knows.

About stellar agree with the sister brother thing, but nothing is really proven about that, They may have loved each other more.

Kira and Shinn took very different paths ins GS/GSD...they maty look similar but they are not. I almost agree that Shinn is jsut a male version of frey...but he may be the main character...

Personally I am hoping whoever I quoted about the director saying Kira is the main character is right...! Kira is my fav....