Is Neo a clone of Mwu or the real deal? [Archive]

WingZero

Tue, 05-03-2005, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: WingZero
look at the 3rd opening mmu has a scar on his face from the explosion, he aint no clone he the real deal bitches. clones wouldnt have a defects such as scars./

Keep in mind that we haven't seen anything of his life before the attack on Armory One. He could have easily gotten the scar at some point before that.

Of course its Mmu, use some commonsense, his helmet cracks when he blocks the beam in seed, the glass tears his face up of course. that makes the most sense, why would the writers come up with other shit that he got scars and easily from something else? damn !!!

PSJ

Tue, 05-03-2005, 01:07 PM

you do know that if it is a clone it lived its own life and could have gotten a scar through a normal accident just like any normal human can get a scar?

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-03-2005, 01:21 PM

WingZero is an idiot. He should get together with Madell.

Psyke

Tue, 05-03-2005, 01:22 PM

I'd like to point out again that in the other thread with the ending sequence pictures I made, Neo wasn't in them. That's a little strange considering all the main characters were inside. Mwu, however, was in the picture. So could they be the same person?

PSJ

Tue, 05-03-2005, 01:24 PM

no they cant because that would destroy mwu's character he was a genuine heroic good guy, to make him evil isnt right.

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-03-2005, 01:34 PM

As I've said one million times, and yet say again wondering why I never learn:

GSD -wants- you to believe that Mwu is Neo. They put out "evidence" such as the openings & his voice. But if Mwu truly was Neo, wouldn't that be a big damn shocker? Yes it would! Then WHY WOULD THEY MAKE IT SO BLATANTLY CLEAR? -THAT- is common sense in it's purest form.

DDBen

Tue, 05-03-2005, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
As I've said one million times, and yet say again wondering why I never learn:

GSD -wants- you to believe that Mwu is Neo. They put out "evidence" such as the openings & his voice. But if Mwu truly was Neo, wouldn't that be a big damn shocker? Yes it would! Then WHY WOULD THEY MAKE IT SO BLATANTLY CLEAR? -THAT- is common sense in it's purest form.

If this was seed I would fully agree with you Terra but with GSD they have been taking the predictable route more often then not I still think they will say he's Mwu or at the very least they recovered his body and its a clone his hair matches Mwu and the scars in the opening make no sense unless they plan to reintroduce him in some way.

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-03-2005, 01:48 PM

Well all I can say is that if it turns out to be Mwu I'll lose all faith in the Gundam franchise.

(unless Yzak kills him)

DDBen

Tue, 05-03-2005, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Well all I can say is that if it turns out to be Mwu I'll lose all faith in the Gundam franchise.

(unless Yzak kills him)

well what if Shinn randomly kills Yzak hmm?

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-03-2005, 02:29 PM

*Ignores that statement and cuddles with his Yzak dolls*

Psyke

Tue, 05-03-2005, 02:43 PM

Everybody's getting new Gundams and upgrades. Wish Dearka and Yzak got new Gundams too, instead of lame Zaku upgrades. A new version of Buster and Duel would be so cool. Been a while since we saw the 2 of them and I wonder when we will see them in action again....

WingZero

Tue, 05-03-2005, 02:51 PM

i guess, well see

Deblas

Tue, 05-03-2005, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by: WingZero
i guess, well see

Thats it? You should say a little more than that.

About Neo being Mwu. I seems very unlikely that Mwu is even alive let alone be Neo And if he was I would say he would have gone after Ramius, not stay in the military. Also, he doesn't seem to be the type to be involved in the operation that he is now. So I would say he is probably a clone of Mwu, which I really don't want to happen because *sniff* I want him to live. i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-03-2005, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by: Psyke
Everybody's getting new Gundams and upgrades. Wish Dearka and Yzak got new Gundams too, instead of lame Zaku upgrades. A new version of Buster and Duel would be so cool. Been a while since we saw the 2 of them and I wonder when we will see them in action again....

It's been too damn long! My inner Yzak fanboy (well inner would be an exaggeration since my fondness for him is kinda blatant) is crying bloody tears.

Deblas

Tue, 05-03-2005, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Originally posted by: Psyke
Everybody's getting new Gundams and upgrades. Wish Dearka and Yzak got new Gundams too, instead of lame Zaku upgrades. A new version of Buster and Duel would be so cool. Been a while since we saw the 2 of them and I wonder when we will see them in action again....

It's been too damn long! My inner Yzak fanboy (well inner would be an exaggeration since my fondness for him is kinda blatant) is crying bloody tears.

What about Rey then?

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-03-2005, 04:29 PM

Rey is pretty cute but I don't care much about him. It's all about Yzak. He's my god and has been ever since I first saw his haircut back in Seed episode 1. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Curium

Tue, 05-03-2005, 08:15 PM

I want to point out that Strike blew up right next to the Archangel. Even IF, I repeat IF, he survived the explosion, the chances of anyone getting close enough to rescue him other then the Archangel before he died would have been almost non-existant. They had by FAR the best view of the remains/debries of Strike, do you really think they would have left him if there was even a 1% chance of survival. Also, the EAF was not on the Archangel's side at the time so if any of them got too close they would have been shot down.

NomoZ

Tue, 05-03-2005, 08:34 PM

The blast would have sent the strike flying back(in many possible directions).

Psyke

Tue, 05-03-2005, 09:21 PM

He's the man who made the impossible possible, so.......

DDBen

Tue, 05-03-2005, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by: Deblas

Originally posted by: WingZero
i guess, well see

Thats it? You should say a little more than that.

About Neo being Mwu. I seems very unlikely that Mwu is even alive let alone be Neo And if he was I would say he would have gone after Ramius, not stay in the military. Also, he doesn't seem to be the type to be involved in the operation that he is now. So I would say he is probably a clone of Mwu, which I really don't want to happen because *sniff* I want him to live.

We have 2 distinct issues with this. The first is that Mwu was not a clone in the first place and the only clone was of his father. The second is that the clones age normally there has been no point in which there was aging of a clone done to the point where in 3 years he could be a fully trained ace and have watched over the extended program. Given these issues and the fact Neo has no memories of his past and that the EA can alter memories this entire theory is disproven.

Rey is more then likely a clone of Mwu's father as he obviously looks like a younger version of Raal however Neo being a Mwu clone is unfortunatly more farfetched then it being the actual Meu.

Terracosmo

Wed, 05-04-2005, 01:51 AM

Flashback!

(keep in mind that we are in space)
(space = no air)
again,
(space = no air)

http://gundams.net/files/pictures/seed/episode49/49%20(239).jpg - Strike being hit by an enormous beam from a cannon capable of raping a battleship.
http://gundams.net/files/pictures/seed/episode49/49%20(240).jpg - Mwu speaking dramatically, ensuring that his death will be heroic and uncallable.
http://gundams.net/files/pictures/seed/episode49/49%20(241).jpg - A pink cloud of certain doom.
http://gundams.net/files/pictures/seed/episode49/49%20(244).jpg - LOOK AT ALL THE PIECES OF MWU THAT PEOPLE CAN EASILY PICK UP AND BRAINWASH FOR NO REASON

You know the more I look at this the more I laugh. There is no way in hell that Neo is Mwu.
By the way can anyone confirm the rumor that Mwu's helmet was removed in the DVDs? That sounds like bullshit to me, no decent director would go back and change those things just to make the continuation better... (better is, again, the wrong word if Neo is Mwu though..)

danholo

Wed, 05-04-2005, 05:15 AM

Well, Mwu's comeback would be another of those unexplainable magical anime plot-twists just to get the story further. You are right, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Curium

Wed, 05-04-2005, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by: DDBen
We have 2 distinct issues with this. The first is that Mwu was not a clone in the first place and the only clone was of his father. The second is that the clones age normally there has been no point in which there was aging of a clone done to the point where in 3 years he could be a fully trained ace and have watched over the extended program. Given these issues and the fact Neo has no memories of his past and that the EA can alter memories this entire theory is disproven.

Rey is more then likely a clone of Mwu's father as he obviously looks like a younger version of Raal however Neo being a Mwu clone is unfortunatly more farfetched then it being the actual Meu.

First off the accelarated aging is not a problem, in SEED one of Raww's problems was that as a defect from the cloneing process his aging was super accelarated. That is what the pills he took were for, to try and stabalize it.

Also, where did they EVER say Neo does not remember his past?

danholo

Wed, 05-04-2005, 07:18 AM

Well, we do know, or have not seen, that Neo would be suffering from any similar symptoms to that of Rau in Seed. Rau was really suffering without his medication. Neo just seems to wear a mask for the heck of it. I wonder why nobody asks him: "Why the hell are you wearing that mask?"

Curium

Wed, 05-04-2005, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by: danholo
Well, we do know, or have not seen, that Neo would be suffering from any similar symptoms to that of Rau in Seed. Rau was really suffering without his medication. Neo just seems to wear a mask for the heck of it. I wonder why nobody asks him: "Why the hell are you wearing that mask?"

I'm glad you added the "or have not seen". I don't have go get after you for that.

Notice nobody ever asked that question of Raww either, or any other Masked Gundam villan ever (at least in an episode i've seen).

DDBen

Wed, 05-04-2005, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: DDBen
We have 2 distinct issues with this. The first is that Mwu was not a clone in the first place and the only clone was of his father. The second is that the clones age normally there has been no point in which there was aging of a clone done to the point where in 3 years he could be a fully trained ace and have watched over the extended program. Given these issues and the fact Neo has no memories of his past and that the EA can alter memories this entire theory is disproven.

Rey is more then likely a clone of Mwu's father as he obviously looks like a younger version of Raal however Neo being a Mwu clone is unfortunatly more farfetched then it being the actual Meu.

First off the accelarated aging is not a problem, in SEED one of Raww's problems was that as a defect from the cloneing process his aging was super accelarated. That is what the pills he took were for, to try and stabalize it.

Also, where did they EVER say Neo does not remember his past?

I would have to rewatch episodes to find the exact location and as I'm both at work and do not care enough to do so I'll clairify a bit. Neo clearly states he is a man with no past. As this is the case and depending what he was told they could have easily altered his memory in order to make him forget his past as he could have resolved himself to being a tool.

Do I think that it would make any sense at all to make Mwu be Neo. That answer is of course not but I certainly do feel its a likely plot device they choose to use. Also the reason that Raal took the drugs was because he was one of the extended NOT because he had accelerated aging. Atleast I've personally no recollection of any point where they stated that Raal's age was accelerated.

Curium

Wed, 05-04-2005, 09:18 AM

In the episode where he is talking to Mwu and Kira in that abandoned colony he mentioned it. He was saying he was going to take everyone with him. Unfortunately I don't have my DVDs to check it for sure.

For the "Man without a past" comment (assuming he did say it) it would be MUCH more literal if he was a clone, since he really wouldn't have one. Another thing, I know it is normal to assume that a clone started as a baby, but that may not necessarily be the case. It is possible that they did a clone as an adult.

DDBen

Wed, 05-04-2005, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by: Curium
In the episode where he is talking to Mwu and Kira in that abandoned colony he mentioned it. He was saying he was going to take everyone with him. Unfortunately I don't have my DVDs to check it for sure.

For the "Man without a past" comment (assuming he did say it) it would be MUCH more literal if he was a clone, since he really wouldn't have one. Another thing, I know it is normal to assume that a clone started as a baby, but that may not necessarily be the case. It is possible that they did a clone as an adult.

Um who was going to take everyone with them? I have no idea what your refering to here. Raal was a clone of Mwu's dad thats just a flat out fact from seed. We are talking about Mwu here however and not Raal.

Curium

Thu, 05-05-2005, 01:38 AM

Okay, I went to a lot of trouble to redownload episode 49 of SEED just so I could make sure before I posted this.

After his fight with Rau, Mwu was already injured from the final blast. Also after the explosion it clearly shows the debries from Strike. Not only can you see Mwu's helmet, but you can also see the torso where the cockpit would be, RIGHT IN FRON OF THE ARCHANGEL. There is no way anyone else could have gotten to him to save him.

Curium

Thu, 05-05-2005, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: Curium
In the episode where he is talking to Mwu and Kira in that abandoned colony he mentioned it. He was saying he was going to take everyone with him. Unfortunately I don't have my DVDs to check it for sure.

For the "Man without a past" comment (assuming he did say it) it would be MUCH more literal if he was a clone, since he really wouldn't have one. Another thing, I know it is normal to assume that a clone started as a baby, but that may not necessarily be the case. It is possible that they did a clone as an adult.

Um who was going to take everyone with them? I have no idea what your refering to here. Raal was a clone of Mwu's dad thats just a flat out fact from seed. We are talking about Mwu here however and not Raal.

I'm saying that is the episode that where Rau talks about why his health issues. I wasn't refering to that directly. You had said something about Rau taking the pills because he was an Extended, he wasn't.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post, I forgot these were in the same topic. I will try to not do it again.

Guardian_2000

Thu, 05-05-2005, 06:55 AM

You guys give some screen caps when you describe a scene. From the images posted thus far and the wording of posts you make it sound like there should be nothing left. Somehow Mwu's helmet survived the blast. Like I was saying Strike never got hit with the Lohengrin. It used its shield as cover then that exploded at point blank. In the end we see the arms and legs. But what you're saying the torso is in tact? That suit should be vaporized if it got hit. Its space its space can't breathe. You don't need to breathe you got thirty seconds where you go unconcious. There is a possibility that Neo is Mwu. Its more plausible right now than him being a clone. If you guys keeping shutting yourselves off to the possibilities you will look like idiots in the end saying that he is definately dead when you got no solid proof to prove it.

Psyke

Thu, 05-05-2005, 08:28 AM

I believe this was what Curium was talking about.

http://img105.echo.cx/img105/1783/mwu0bb.jpg

PSJ

Thu, 05-05-2005, 09:07 AM

that pic right there should shut all of you up, there is no way in hell that mwu survived that.

also rau took his pills because of his accelerated aging not because he was an extended, it was explain in the ep 45 i believe.

Terracosmo

Thu, 05-05-2005, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
If you guys keeping shutting yourselves off to the possibilities you will look like idiots in the end saying that he is definately dead when you got no solid proof to prove it.

Well you are just as "shut off" from other solutions, so...
And I dare say your proof is less solid, seeing as it's just random lines said by Neo that you've twisted into being related to Mwu. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Edit: God, people over at gundams.net makes people here look intelligent. Some idiot claimed it was "evidence" for Mwu being Neo that he saluted in ep 28. So basically "Neo is a nice guy who salutes Todoka, therefore he is probably Mwu". Fucking idiots.

Someone: But he blew up?
Guy: Who cares, he's a nice guy. It's Mwu!
Someone: Please just make the pain eeeenddddddddd

Curium

Thu, 05-05-2005, 07:35 PM

Thanks for posting the Screen cap Psyke. I would have, but I'm not that skilled. See like I said, the Torso with the cockpit is RIGHT IN FRONT OF ARCHANGEL. If there was ANY chance of Mwu surviving it would have been the Archangel that would have saved him.

XwingRob

Thu, 05-05-2005, 08:58 PM

Well, we'll find out sooner or later for sure.
I heard that supposely they edit out the helmet scene in the DVD. Volume 10 is out next week(which I'm looking forward to, finally complete my collection) so I guess I'll find out if that rumor is true or not.
Even if it is true that they edit out the scene in DVD, alot of people will be going WTF? if Neo does turn out to be Mwu.
I am hoping that it is Mwu, but...

Terracosmo

Fri, 05-06-2005, 07:17 AM

Still waiting for someone to confirm that the helmet was actually removed...

Curium

Fri, 05-06-2005, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Still waiting for someone to confirm that the helmet was actually removed...

I just checked aniDB, and nobody has released a DVD rip yet.

Dannynonsense

Fri, 05-06-2005, 09:46 AM

no he might be someone nobody expects

Curium

Sat, 05-07-2005, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Still waiting for someone to confirm that the helmet was actually removed...

Anime-MX has released a DVD rip. I'm in queue to download it now. I will let you know when I've seen it.

EDIT: Okay, I've seen it now. At least on the DVD source that Anime-MX used the helmet is still in the picture in episode 49. Also it is dual audio so it would be a more recent release of the episode.

EDIT2: I'll do more later, but I just want to add that personally I think that Neo is the exact same as Mia Campbell.

PSJ

Sat, 05-07-2005, 07:27 AM

good point on that mia thing. why hasnt anyone thought of that possibility before?

Terracosmo

Sat, 05-07-2005, 11:47 AM

Seeing as Curium has acknowledged that the helmet isn't in, I'd like to hear what all the smartasses who listened to some random rumor about it being edited out have to say now i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

XwingRob

Sat, 05-07-2005, 11:54 AM

Heh, yeah unless Mwu is able to breath in space, or the Blue Cosmos' guys came up with some form of reviving dead people... Mwu is dead.
And Curium your theory about Neo being like Mia Campbell is intresting.

OH well... I"m still hoping it's Mwu because I want Mwu to be back. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Guardian_2000

Sat, 05-07-2005, 12:42 PM

Terra I've said before that they can't edit out the helmet scene from the anime series because the dvd is supposed to be unedited. So while I'm a smart ass. The scene where it was removed from the SEED compilitation was still removed under direction from the higher ups. But like has been stated just because there is a helmet or not doesn't mean Mwu is dead. When you accept that possibility perhaps people will give you more credit.

There is more evidence to support that Neo is indeed Mwu over the evidence that he is not. Are you still too pig headed to admit that. Or are you going to continue in fooling yourself.

PSJ

Sat, 05-07-2005, 12:48 PM

in my opinion the fact that strike is floating around in peices with the half of the cockpit left is more than enough of evidence for mwu to be dead, its impossilbe to survive that.

Terracosmo

Sat, 05-07-2005, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Terra I've said before that they can't edit out the helmet scene from the anime series because the dvd is supposed to be unedited. So while I'm a smart ass. The scene where it was removed from the SEED compilitation was still removed under direction from the higher ups. But like has been stated just because there is a helmet or not doesn't mean Mwu is dead. When you accept that possibility perhaps people will give you more credit.

There is more evidence to support that Neo is indeed Mwu over the evidence that he is not. Are you still too pig headed to admit that. Or are you going to continue in fooling yourself.

Actually it -does- mean that he is dead. You know the whole breathless thing?
Why the hell should I accept the "possibility that he's alive" when he clearly isn't?
I don't care who gives me credit. I have my opinion, you have yours.

And no, there is not more evidence to support that Neo is Mwu. What you call evidence are just random lines that you toss together to form some kind of theory. Ever thought about the fact that there's "more evidence" is because you can't really say anything more to support that Mwu isn't Neo other than a simple "Mwu is dead"? So therefore, "Mwu is dead" beats your senseless random theories to a bloody pulp. And hell will freeze over before -you- have the right to call anyone a pig head (pretty funny insult by the way).

Edit: Out of curiosity, do you also believe that Auel is alive?

dean10007

Sun, 05-08-2005, 04:31 AM

First, Blood went into Auels helmet. Second, Abyss blew up. Thrid, the beam javelin would have speared him right through the stomach.

On to the matter of Mwu. Do you even relize what sort of weapon the Lohengrin is? ITS A POSITRON CANNON! THAT MEANS IT FIRES ANTI-PROTONS! MEANING ANTI-MATTER! How the shields deflect that, I don't know. Second, the explosion would kill Mwu, if not, his helmet coming off would mean a very painful death of decompression. I doubt the ArchAngel could retrieve a person within 15 seconds, and then reintroduce atmosphere within 60 seconds. Ever put shaving cream in a vacuum chamber, remove the air, then recompress very quickly? I have. BOOM! It expands rapidly. Certain death, UNLESS the ArchAngel had medical systems equivilant to those on the Enterprise-E from Star Trek.

Curium

Sun, 05-08-2005, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by: dean10007
First, Blood went into Auels helmet. Second, Abyss blew up. Thrid, the beam javelin would have speared him right through the stomach.

On to the matter of Mwu. Do you even relize what sort of weapon the Lohengrin is? ITS A POSITRON CANNON! THAT MEANS IT FIRES ANTI-PROTONS! MEANING ANTI-MATTER! How the shields deflect that, I don't know. Second, the explosion would kill Mwu, if not, his helmet coming off would mean a very painful death of decompression. I doubt the ArchAngel could retrieve a person within 15 seconds, and then reintroduce atmosphere within 60 seconds. Ever put shaving cream in a vacuum chamber, remove the air, then recompress very quickly? I have. BOOM! It expands rapidly. Certain death, UNLESS the ArchAngel had medical systems equivilant to those on the Enterprise-E from Star Trek.

Don't go after Terra. He made the comment about Auel being alive with sarcasm.

telemari

Sun, 05-08-2005, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by: dean10007
First, Blood went into Auels helmet. Second, Abyss blew up. Thrid, the beam javelin would have speared him right through the stomach.

On to the matter of Mwu. Do you even relize what sort of weapon the Lohengrin is? ITS A POSITRON CANNON! THAT MEANS IT FIRES ANTI-PROTONS! MEANING ANTI-MATTER! How the shields deflect that, I don't know. Second, the explosion would kill Mwu, if not, his helmet coming off would mean a very painful death of decompression. I doubt the ArchAngel could retrieve a person within 15 seconds, and then reintroduce atmosphere within 60 seconds. Ever put shaving cream in a vacuum chamber, remove the air, then recompress very quickly? I have. BOOM! It expands rapidly. Certain death, UNLESS the ArchAngel had medical systems equivilant to those on the Enterprise-E from Star Trek.

Positrons are actually antielectrons, not antiprotons. Also, you can survive in vacuum for minutes - it's over for your eyes and ears, but you can survive.

Anyway, who cares? If it's really him, they will make it that he survived somehow. Just wait.

Guardian_2000

Sun, 05-08-2005, 08:49 PM

I don't recall seeing Strike blow up in an explosion. I saw the Strike's Shield blow up. I can go frame by frame. That explosion as such a close proximity thou could do the damage that was done to the Strike. As for the death scenes they have showed the other pilots actually die. For Mwu's "death" scene they didn't show him die. Just some scraps of Strike in pretty good sized chunks. Lets get some screencaps of the strikes torso after the explosion to show the dmg. You dis whatever evidence I've provided Terra but its got the same level of relevance and value as any information you provide to say Mwu is not alive and that Neo is a clone. Or are you going by the theory that Neo is not Mwu nor a clone? That would be a good laugh. I'd have to applaud Bandai for one hell of a red herring. What proof do you have that Mwu really is dead. Besides your speculations what makes your view any better than mine and those of the other people who think Neo is Mwu?

Kovash

Mon, 05-09-2005, 08:12 AM

Personally, I'd hate it is Neo was the real Mwu - that would cheapen his death and destroy the SEED franchise for me - and since SEED has done such a good job of appeasing me, I'm going to assume they wouldn't let me down now i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif.

A clone seems possible, and the most likely - Neo has to appear something like Mwu to get 'that' kind of reaction out of Marius from the intro.

I do, however, propose a new theory - perhaps Neo is... Rau! Or atleast, yet _another_ clone of Mwu's father i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif.

Terracosmo

Mon, 05-09-2005, 08:15 AM

My main reason for saying that Neo isn't Mwu is actually that I -know- that the guys behind Seed wouldn't give us such a lame plot twist.
I respect them and think much higher of them than that. Thinking about it, making it so that Neo is Mwu would be what a newbie script-writer would do. Get it?
Which is why I think it's silly to think Neo is Mwu, because he's obviously dead, and whoever thinks otherwise is just too stuck-up on trying to find other solutions to see simple truth. I mean, in my opinion, "Mwu blew up and his helmet was out in space" and blah blah blah has a lot more ground to stand on than all those lines that you, Guardian, threw together and called "typical Mwu lines".

I will not applaud Bandai for creating a "red herring" because to me this isn't a mystery, it's just a debate between people who realize that Mwu is dead and people who want him to be alive for whatever reason they can come up with.

Psyke

Mon, 05-09-2005, 08:50 AM

Question: When an anime airs in Japan for a projected number of episodes, do they writers finalise the plot all the way till the end of the series, or do they wait and see the viewers reactions and then fine tune to plot according to how receptive the audience were to the aired episodes?

I'm referring to of course non manga turned anime series.

For eg: if the viewers want Mwu back so badly not having him back would lower ratings (just an example so don't quote me), would the producers fine tune the plot from there on to make the show a bigger success?

Of course I know that giving what the viewers want may not make the anime a great one, but what I'm talking about here is ratings and viwership.

Curium

Mon, 05-09-2005, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by: Kovash
Personally, I'd hate it is Neo was the real Mwu - that would cheapen his death and destroy the SEED franchise for me - and since SEED has done such a good job of appeasing me, I'm going to assume they wouldn't let me down now .

A clone seems possible, and the most likely - Neo has to appear something like Mwu to get 'that' kind of reaction out of Marius from the intro.

I do, however, propose a new theory - perhaps Neo is... Rau! Or atleast, yet _another_ clone of Mwu's father .

It looks like you were being Sarcastic, but I'm still responding. Personally I'd believe it was Mwu before I would believe it was Rau. As I've said many times I will never believe it is really Mwu. Rau took a Beam Saber to the chest, and then a nuclear powered superweapon in the face at point blank range. I don't believe there is ANY series in ANY catagory in ANY country that has medical tech good enough to save someone from that.

Curium

Mon, 05-09-2005, 02:56 PM

Sorry for the double post, but when I try to edit my post I just get an error.

I was just watching through Gundam SEED episode 50 again. Rau came across the wreckage of Strike. He didn't have the reaction that Mwu was around at all.

Terracosmo

Mon, 05-09-2005, 04:06 PM

Very good observation, Curium!

Also he looked a bit "wtf", as to further fuel the fact that Mwu was gone.

Guardian_2000

Tue, 05-10-2005, 11:02 AM

That newtype reaction doesn't occur constantly just so you know. Atleast in their battle they didn't constantly have reactions. Its definately something to put on the evidence side that he died or was picked up. That statement works for both sides. Good find. As for the "wtf" comment I think he'd have that look no matter what since I think he was planning on being the one to take down Mwu. For something else to have beat the Strike is startling enough.

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-10-2005, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
That newtype reaction doesn't occur constantly just so you know. Atleast in their battle they didn't constantly have reactions. Its definately something to put on the evidence side that he died or was picked up. That statement works for both sides.

You are so unbelievably thick.
Of course they didn't have reactions "all the time" (naturally it would look rather funny), but why the hell would they choose not to do the reaction thing at such a crucial moment if it didn't mean something?

Kovash

Tue, 05-10-2005, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by: Curium
It looks like you were being Sarcastic, but I'm still responding. Personally I'd believe it was Mwu before I would believe it was Rau. As I've said many times I will never believe it is really Mwu. Rau took a Beam Saber to the chest, and then a nuclear powered superweapon in the face at point blank range. I don't believe there is ANY series in ANY catagory in ANY country that has medical tech good enough to save someone from that.

Ok, this is the 5th time I've attempted to post this, so hopefully it will work this time...

I've been going over episode 49 and 50 trying to peice together the likelyhood of either Mwu or Rau surviving, and I came across something interesting... Rau never gets hit by Kira's beam sabre.

If you check, it acctually slides in through the cockpit but misses Rau's righthand side by a few good inches; added to that, when the explosion of the GENESIS hits Kira and Rau's units, Kira leaps out of the way (though he still doesn't come clear) and Rau's unit is push to the side by Kira, then shoved offscreen in the same direction by the 'beam'. There is no explosion and the only damage we see to either unit, was Freedom's legs getting mangled.

Now, with all that, let's consider for a moment - Strike explodes, we see Mwu getting taken by the explosion in his cockpit, certainly he is dead (unless the writers come up with some cheap, crappy plot device) Neo, on the otherhand, has not got a confirmed death, the most we see is his helmet's screen breaking and his mask flying off.

So, we SEE Mwu's apparent death, but Rau is just discarded like no one would care? - I wonder who has the greater chance of survival? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Something else that bothered me, Neo's hair is the same length and shape as Rau's... i wonder... i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-10-2005, 07:40 PM

Okay great, now Rau is alive too?

*waits for people to bring up theories regarding Frey's survival and cloning into Stellar because they have the same voice actor*

SHIT I'M ON TO SOMETHING ROFLFLL

Kovash

Tue, 05-10-2005, 10:04 PM

I was jsut saying, it's more _plausable_ for Rau to be Neo, than reviving a person we know, for certain, is dead - just to be cinematic.

I get the feeling that the only reason they voice actors are the same, is because they are fulfilling the same roles as their previous incarnations. Stellar is someone the main character feels they need to protect, Neo is the EA's topgun and Rey is Zaft's topgun... soon to be turned raging genocidal maniac i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif.

Rik

Tue, 05-10-2005, 11:00 PM

I think that Mwu is Neo. During episode 44 of Seed, Rau and Mwu both sense Kira coming (according to MAHQ's review). I thinking Kira sensed the same. Also in GSD episode 23 ( 20:06 - 20:10) it looked like Kira might have sensed Neo and vice versa. Execpt without the freaky newtype flash thing.

NomoZ

Tue, 05-10-2005, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by: Kovash
I've been going over episode 49 and 50 trying to peice together the likelyhood of either Mwu or Rau surviving, and I came across something interesting... Rau never gets hit by Kira's beam sabre.

If you check, it acctually slides in through the cockpit but misses Rau's righthand side by a few good inches; added to that, when the explosion of the GENESIS hits Kira and Rau's units, Kira leaps out of the way (though he still doesn't come clear) and Rau's unit is push to the side by Kira, then shoved offscreen in the same direction by the 'beam'. There is no explosion and the only damage we see to either unit, was Freedom's legs getting mangled.

Rau doesn't get destroyed? interesting... http://nomoz.mediahalo.com/ima...2d5071.upload/prov.JPG (http://nomoz.mediahalo.com/image/fi282d5071.upload/prov.JPG) and the explosion(easier to see in the ep) http://nomoz.mediahalo.com/ima...upload/prov%20boom.JPG (http://nomoz.mediahalo.com/image/fiafc178f8.upload/prov%20boom.JPG)

Originally posted by: Kovash
Now, with all that, let's consider for a moment - Strike explodes, we see Mwu getting taken by the explosion in his cockpit, certainly he is dead (unless the writers come up with some cheap, crappy plot device) Neo, on the otherhand, has not got a confirmed death, the most we see is his helmet's screen breaking and his mask flying off.

and this was in another topic, series is on top movies on bottom... http://end-in-z.com/def/mu.jpg

Originally posted by: Kovash
Something else that bothered me, Neo's hair is the same length and shape as Rau's... i wonder...

Just incase you didn't know...hair grows...

Kovash

Wed, 05-11-2005, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by: NomoZ
Rau doesn't get destroyed? interesting... http://nomoz.mediahalo.com/ima...2d5071.upload/prov.JPG (http://nomoz.mediahalo.com/image/fi282d5071.upload/prov.JPG)
Yes, his unit doesn't explode, even your picture shows that his legs and arms came off, but the torso is intact.

Originally posted by: NomoZ
and this was in another topic, series is on top movies on bottom... http://end-in-z.com/def/mu.jpg
I don't believe that, just because the helmet is missing, Mwu 'magically' survives the exact same circumstances as I mentioned above; if you bother to re-read what I said, I never even mentioned the stupid helmet.

Originally posted by: NomoZ
Just incase you didn't know...hair grows...
You're right it does, and as a tribute to his dead father's clone, Mwu decides to get the exact same haircut.

That being said, I will re-iterate, I DON'T think that Neo is Rau; but given the circumstances of both _apparent_ deaths, Rau is MORE likely to have surived. I do not in any way believe that I have proved anything short of that.

In the event that Neo turns out to be Mwu and he survives the explosion due to some convinient plot device... I'll be angry, frustrated, and probably lose all respect for the writers.

In the event that Neo turns out to be Rau, I'd be shocked an appauled, though not as much as if it was Mwu.

In the event that Neo turns out to be a clone of either Mwu or Rau, I'll be dissapointed, but not angry.

In the event that Neo turns out to be Tolle, i'll laugh.

EDIT: Oh, and can people stop taking things I say as a joke, and skewing them into yet another, pointless, arguement.

Roko

Wed, 05-11-2005, 12:09 AM

Rau is dead for sure. In GS, if a char's head splatters all over inside his helmet, then the MS/MA explodes, it's basically a 100% chance he's dead.
i can just imagine it being Tolle. Milly's face upon seeing him will just be like "WTF?!?!"

Psyke

Wed, 05-11-2005, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by: Roko
Rau is dead for sure. In GS, if a char's head splatters all over inside his helmet, then the MS/MA explodes, it's basically a 100% chance he's dead.
i can just imagine it being Tolle. Milly's face upon seeing him will just be like "WTF?!?!"

People are going to start saying it's Nicol who's Neo soon....... i/expressions/rolleye.gif

NomoZ

Wed, 05-11-2005, 12:31 AM

You obviously didn't see the 2nd pic i attached, go rewatch the ep there is an explosion(bright yellow flash) in the beams path right where Providence was.

As for the helmet, I thought you meant mwu's not rau's.

Right now they both look dead, but since they edited out the helmet in space I think they decided to let Mwu live to become Neo. Why else would they edit it out...for kicks?

alukard

Wed, 05-11-2005, 12:41 AM

There's no way Rey is Zaft's topgun. Mwu was the topgun of Archangel but wasnt assigned Strike. Kira became its topgun. To be a topgunner you'd have to have sharp-shooting skills. Athrun proved a sharp-shooter and he was annihilated by Kira once in GS and had to self-destruct just to take him out and once again in GSD but thats because he wasnt fighting with the right spirit. Shinn is currently the top gun of Zaft after he learned Athrun's trick with holding a handgun which isnt much different from being in control of one in a Gundam. The precognition Rey had with Neo was just the same as Mwu and Rau. It has nothing to do with being a top-gunner but like real life twins these guys tend to know when each other is coming because one of them is the clone of the other and think smilar in alot of ways and they have a sort of rivalry that goes way back when even so much as genetically.

Wow, interesting take on the helmet. I agree if you head goes up like a balloon its evident they're gone.
Neo might be closer to Rau because he uses the same kind of mobile suit as providence used in Gundam Seed. Its like providence rebult without any change except in color. They were both black i think. Black is the color of evil. If Rau is alive it would be as Neo and its his rebirth name. He might have been revived but joined Earth under a covert agenda. But after EPI 29 i think he's really dead because Dullihand was talking to a ghost of Rau of sort unless its just his imaginations. Also the picture of Providence going up is quite clear. Kira already inflicted a knife wound and the beam would have pierced through the already weakened providence phase-shfit armory.

Roko

Wed, 05-11-2005, 12:46 AM

Rey never was Zaft's topgun. Shinn always was, which was the reason he was given Impulse. Mwu was a topgun, yes, but with mobile armors, not suits. And Kira was never part of the EA before being forced to pilot Strike. Athrun was annihilated by Kira because Kira is the ultimate coordinator, and ultimate coordinator>coordinator. And because Kira is the ultimate coordinator, he can kick anybody's butt anyday. There, I'm done contradicting you.

Kovash

Wed, 05-11-2005, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by: NomoZ
You obviously didn't see the 2nd pic i attached, go rewatch the ep there is an explosion(bright yellow flash) in the beams path right where Providence was.

As for the helmet, I thought you meant mwu's not rau's.

Right now they both look dead, but since they edited out the helmet in space I think they decided to let Mwu live to become Neo. Why else would they edit it out...for kicks?

I saw it, and checked to make sure, the flash comes from offscreen, it envelops Provodence, but the unit itself doesn't explode (I went thorugh frame by frame, check it yourself)

In naycase, it's hardly the point - as I said, I don't believethat Rau survived, just that, when it comes to the bare balled facts, Rau has a BETTER chance at survival than Mwu.

As for the edited out helmet, there are a dozen possible reasons it was taken out, though I will admit Mwu's survival is one of them. I am prepared for the possibility, I'd just hate it., because he SHOULD be dead.

And just a side note about the Tupgun thingie; Shinn isn't a topgun, just the pilot of an experimental Mobile suit (and the main character) - everyone else out-ranks him (save possibly the crew workers that repair his suit).

AND

STOP forming arguments out of statements made in jest.

Roko

Wed, 05-11-2005, 02:03 AM

Shinn is a topgun. Why do you think Impulse was given to him instead of Rey, and Rey got a sucky Zaku?

nobody's forming arguments out of statements made in a jest. if you wanna prevent it, then just don't post the fucking jest. That's what jests are for, to debate and make fun of.

Curium

Wed, 05-11-2005, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by: Roko
Shinn is a topgun. Why do you think Impulse was given to him instead of Rey, and Rey got a sucky Zaku?

nobody's forming arguments out of statements made in a jest. if you wanna prevent it, then just don't post the fucking jest. That's what jests are for, to debate and make fun of.

Shinn was given Impulse because Dullindal did a check on all the pilot's genetics and saw that Shinn had the potential to achive SEED.

PSJ

Wed, 05-11-2005, 02:46 AM

most likely yes but we dont know for sure. it was said in the early eps that the captain or someone on the minerva wondered why shinn got impulse instead of rey.

Terracosmo

Wed, 05-11-2005, 02:56 AM

http://end-in-z.com/def/mu.jpg

wtf is the helmet removed after all? Now I'm confused

Curium

Wed, 05-11-2005, 03:36 AM

On the DVD release of the episode it was not released. In the 3 movie summary maybe it was. I'm not particularly concerned about a summary. Summaries by their very nature are incomplete.

Kovash

Wed, 05-11-2005, 04:40 AM

Yeah, it's only in the 3part Special edition DVD compalation (that cut out half of my favorite scenes, btw) that the helmet is cut out - personally I think it's a stupid thing to remove, especially on such a remote source, does this mean we are to accept the DVD Special Ed as pure Cannon?

Psyke

Wed, 05-11-2005, 04:48 AM

If they really did so something as drastic as edit out the helmet we can safely bet that Mwu is still alive..... which will yet start another string of arguments.

DDBen

Wed, 05-11-2005, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by: Roko
Rey never was Zaft's topgun. Shinn always was, which was the reason he was given Impulse. Mwu was a topgun, yes, but with mobile armors, not suits. And Kira was never part of the EA before being forced to pilot Strike. Athrun was annihilated by Kira because Kira is the ultimate coordinator, and ultimate coordinator>coordinator. And because Kira is the ultimate coordinator, he can kick anybody's butt anyday. There, I'm done contradicting you.

Um first off Rey is a top gun and direct comments were made as to he should have been given the impulse and not shinn. Next Shinn has developed and this was noted by Dullindale who saw the possibility of Shinn becomming a top gun based on his DNA.

As for Mwu yes he was a topgun in the EA with a mobile armor. However considering that Zaft invented mobile suits and were the only ones to have them at the start of the war this is pretty much a given as Mwu had no mobile suit he could piolet. Also note that later when Mwu uses the Strike he is easily considered a top gun in a mobile suit in his own respect as the 5 gundams that the series is about are the prototype suits for the EA to fight back against Zaft.

As for Kira and Athrun, yes its a fact Kira is the ultimate coordinator, however also note that Kira was attempting to make a nonleathal dismantaling of Athrun's mobile suit. This is a much much harder thing to do then killing your opponent. As such if Athrun was attempting to kill Kira it could be said they were on equal footing. Yes Kira could all out kill his friend or whoever else he wants at a given point but then he wouldn't be Kira.

matt

Wed, 05-11-2005, 02:37 PM

hmmm...neo doesn't necessarily have to be either mwu or rau, but if he has to be either, going with the evidence we have from GS and GSD it is more likely to be mwu than rau. there will be some inexplicable reason to his survival but since rau didn't expand on the clone story he was giving in GS there's the possibility that something really important was left out. like breathing in space ehehehe... it can't be rau because he knew about rey whereas mwu never did. and if he is indeed mwu he must have major amnesia or was brainwashed to not remember the freedom and archangel, which is why i stated in the beginning that it doesn't have to be either of them.

the possibility of neo being a rau/mwu clone...that could very well be true. remember mwu said something about how rau had a short telomere which made him age quickly? thought i'd throw that in. also there's some undisclosed relation between kira + mwu + rau + neo and maybe even rey seeing as how kira could sense rau and vice versa in GS and kira sensing neo in GSD. the show's called GS Destiny for a reason, all the answers will be given here. all we can do is ponder and argue till we have them.

telemari

Wed, 05-11-2005, 02:53 PM

rey IS top gun - all red suits are topguns.

Guardian_2000

Wed, 05-11-2005, 06:50 PM

As I said in another thread and will say again here. Compliations, movies and anything else officially released is considered cannon. The manga's are cannon, the OVAs even the Compilation. Since they are newer they take precedence over the series if scenes were altered. The DVDs for the series are not edited and therefore will still have the original scenes of the series.

Now since people are putting up pics can I get a picture of the Strike's torso after the explosion. If you could provide an image like the Strike exploding that would back up peoples claims. But I am only expecting the shield's explosion and then the cloud that hides the Strike from our view. They didn't even show us Mwu dieing in the cockpit the bastards.

Question also. Does anyone here play or has played the Gundam War CCG? I had a question about the Neo card.

XwingRob

Wed, 05-11-2005, 07:30 PM

Well I finally got the DVD. (The helmet was definately still there heh)
Anyways, it looked like to me that Strike got completely vaporized. But then... you see some debris left over in the next scene. Weird animators.

Kovash

Wed, 05-11-2005, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Now since people are putting up pics can I get a picture of the Strike's torso after the explosion. If you could provide an image like the Strike exploding that would back up peoples claims. But I am only expecting the shield's explosion and then the cloud that hides the Strike from our view. They didn't even show us Mwu dieing in the cockpit the bastards.

I'm having trouble taking the screenshot (PowerDVD fails me again!) but I can describe it to you.

Mwu stops the Positron Beam and his shield starts to melt, He looks back (inside his cockpit, he'd b looking at the bridge of the Archangel) and says "I was right... I really can make the impossible possible." then you see a smoke cloud envelop him with the sound of an explosion - camera cuts to the head of the Strike, and it starts to disintegrate, then explodes. Camera cuts to a longshot of the Strike holding back the beam, the beam convulses and balls up against the Strike.

Strike 'explodes' (you see a giant pink explosion cloud... why is it pink?) then it fades and you can't see the Strike at all (ninja vanish!) Marius' face wells up with tears and she screams out his name.

The shot cuts just as she screams and we are looking at the Archangel from the front, the tattered remains of the Strike's Aile pack, a leg and what looks like the lower section of the torso are scattered across the screen (this is where the shattered helmet usually floats past, but the DVD SE edited it out)

XwingRob

Wed, 05-11-2005, 09:01 PM

Well if it's true about the SE DVDs about the helmet scene so be it.
But they so better come up with a good explanation on how Mu survived...

Kovash

Wed, 05-11-2005, 09:12 PM

Oh look! I found a freeware screenshot program, now I have the screens (that THAT! PowerDVD)

anyway, here it is - it's 197k, btw.

Mwu's Death (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/2aefc87659.jpg)

Astronopolis

Wed, 05-11-2005, 09:45 PM

canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon canon

its spelled with one 'n'

Kovash

Wed, 05-11-2005, 10:03 PM

Canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon, canon.

It's spelled with one 'n'.
------------------------------------

You need to punctuate properly.

Death13a

Thu, 05-12-2005, 01:05 AM

He could have gone behind Archangle when clouded and then hide in debris

PSJ

Thu, 05-12-2005, 04:51 AM

thats just stupid, hmm okay ill play dead and hide behind the ship that carries my friends and my lover then i'll rejoin the EA with a diffrent name and wearing a mask just like my daddy's clone did woohoo i own!! doesnt really sound like a plausible theory to me....
to me the pics kovash posted is enough for me to think of mwu as dead even if the did edit out the helmet, we still got the explosion(the pink one is clearly strike blowing up) then we have the strikes lower torso ripped in pieces together with the aile pack, now tell me how mwu survived this again? while strike blocked the beam he jumped out of the suit and swimmed to nearest astroid och debris parts? if he got out of strike wouldnt he go down to to the archangel instead? there is no logic in mwu surviving and joining the EA as neo.

Terracosmo

Thu, 05-12-2005, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by: Kovash
Oh look! I found a freeware screenshot program, now I have the screens (that THAT! PowerDVD)

anyway, here it is - it's 197k, btw.

Mwu's Death (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/2aefc87659.jpg)

That collage should indeed end the discussion. Of course, with the people here, it won't though.
Oh and Guardian, of course movies/summaries are canon... but the issue at hand is whether what is "more" canon, the summaries or the TV series itself? For all we know, the helmet removal might be simple censoring (Though that would make no sense either). Then again, not much makes sense when it comes to these things..

Psyke

Thu, 05-12-2005, 05:04 AM

There wasn't much logic in Gundam Wing when Heero didn't die from that self detruction sequence. Also when Kira survived the final explosion in Seed.

What I'm saying is that the people who write the story can bring whoever back to the series as long as the body's not found...... no matter how ridiculous or incredible it may seem. So, remember nothing is impossible, especially for someone who makes the impossible possible.

If the DVD really did has the helmet edit out....... then we gotta start getting our mindset re-adjusted that Mwu may be Neo after all.

PSJ

Thu, 05-12-2005, 05:41 AM

both of those are main characters mwu is not. shitty explaination but main characters dont die from things normal characters would.

Terracosmo

Thu, 05-12-2005, 05:42 AM

I don't want to compare Seed to Wing, everybody was invincible in that show. Compared to Wing, the mysterious survivals of Seed characters are at least explained (sort of) properly.

It's not really the whole "Mwu surviving" gig that disturbs me, it's the enormous amount of suckage that would appear if Mwu is Neo.

PSJ

Thu, 05-12-2005, 05:44 AM

oh that to of course. mwu did this heroic deed and saved the ones he cared for with his own life, which made his character even better, it showed that he is a real hero. to make him survive and become neo just ruins his character.

Guardian_2000

Fri, 05-13-2005, 08:12 AM

I think it adds alil more depth to it. Its a shame those screenies are so small but it still doesn't show the Strike blowing up. To note all explosions I've seen in the SEED universe that occur in space are pink. Also if something explodes it exerts a force. Like I have said the whole time as the shield gives out and explodes the Strike takes that last brunt but because of that is still consist of pieces with no torso/cockpit to be seen. The console definately starts to blow as the cameras and sensors in the head are blown away. But if the explosion is just like they shown the shield and it was infront of the strike the force of that is gonna push it away and they hide our view of what really happens to the Strike with that damn smoke cloud.

Again Terra so you can understand. Since the SE came out afterwards and the scene that was in the series is edited in the special edition it takes precedence. It wasn't removed they edited the helmet out for whatever reason. Sure alot of people are gonna be disappointed if Mwu is indeed Neo but then some of us are interested since we could see how he may have survived. Remember he makes the impossible possible. Mwu he put his life on the line to save the AA and the woman he had falled for. To be badly injured captured and then brainwashed into being the possible destroyer of the AA puts an insane spin on things. The funny thing is how much of Mwu stands out in Neo. Then again there is that chance it is a clone. Slightly less but its possible.

Terracosmo

Fri, 05-13-2005, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Again Terra so you can understand. Since the SE came out afterwards and the scene that was in the series is edited in the special edition it takes precedence. It wasn't removed they edited the helmet out for whatever reason.

Don't talk like I don't understand simple logic, you fucktard. If you read my reply you'd see that I acknowledge whatever purpose an SE shows, what I meant was if it's truly that important that the helmet is removed, I doubt it would be hard at all for the Seed crew to fix that on the DVDs. Though I didn't regard at the time I wrote it that these are US DVDs (meaning that the japanese ones are already out). I didn't think about that. It has nothing to do with understanding what you write.

PSJ

Fri, 05-13-2005, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
I think it adds alil more depth to it. Its a shame those screenies are so small but it still doesn't show the Strike blowing up. To note all explosions I've seen in the SEED universe that occur in space are pink. Also if something explodes it exerts a force. Like I have said the whole time as the shield gives out and explodes the Strike takes that last brunt but because of that is still consist of pieces with no torso/cockpit to be seen. The console definately starts to blow as the cameras and sensors in the head are blown away. But if the explosion is just like they shown the shield and it was infront of the strike the force of that is gonna push it away and they hide our view of what really happens to the Strike with that damn smoke cloud.

and after that we see a peice of strikes torso along some other pieces hinting that the rest got destroyed completly.

Psyke

Fri, 05-13-2005, 01:00 PM

Seems like a lot of people are still taking about the mwu death scene. So I've made this gif for people who are too lazy to go dig out their old Seed episodes.

http://img64.echo.cx/img64/9238/mwu0pv.gif

XwingRob

Fri, 05-13-2005, 01:06 PM

Man... that scene was so awesome..

Guardian_2000

Fri, 05-13-2005, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Don't talk like I don't understand simple logic, you fucktard. If you read my reply you'd see that I acknowledge whatever purpose an SE shows, what I meant was if it's truly that important that the helmet is removed, I doubt it would be hard at all for the Seed crew to fix that on the DVDs. Though I didn't regard at the time I wrote it that these are US DVDs (meaning that the japanese ones are already out). I didn't think about that. It has nothing to do with understanding what you write.

Well you make it seem like you don't when you constantly say the same thing and act like you didn't bother to read the post. Here is alil more info the DVD release of the series is supposed to be just that, the series unedited. Unedited being the Japanese and the US release. Also I think the Japanese DVDs were all released before the SE was released. Just for alil more to add to that topic.

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
and after that we see a peice of strikes torso along some other pieces hinting that the rest got destroyed completly.

I'm sorry i can't tell which piece you're refering to as the torso. I see parts of the arms and legs and the aile pack. Which would make sense since when the Head got shredded off the arms then got shredded off. The animation helps illustrate this nicely although I had to go back to the DVD for the finer details.

--Psyke thanks for showing that scene. Even thou its small it helps most that don't have the downloads or have the dvds.

Terracosmo

Fri, 05-13-2005, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Don't talk like I don't understand simple logic, you fucktard. If you read my reply you'd see that I acknowledge whatever purpose an SE shows, what I meant was if it's truly that important that the helmet is removed, I doubt it would be hard at all for the Seed crew to fix that on the DVDs. Though I didn't regard at the time I wrote it that these are US DVDs (meaning that the japanese ones are already out). I didn't think about that. It has nothing to do with understanding what you write.

Well you make it seem like you don't when you constantly say the same thing and act like you didn't bother to read the post. Here is alil more info the DVD release of the series is supposed to be just that, the series unedited. Unedited being the Japanese and the US release. Also I think the Japanese DVDs were all released before the SE was released. Just for alil more to add to that topic.

No, I don't make it "seem like" anything. You just don't understand, as usual.

alukard

Fri, 05-13-2005, 09:31 PM

I wont ask you how you made animated gifs as i know you can do it in photoshop or something like that but thanks for that it proves Mwu is dead and Neo is probably a clone of him or his father. It probably surprised alot of ppl when the intro shows Ramius reacting to someone that may be Mwu and pointing a gun at him. I guess the revelation to that will come later.

PSJ

Sat, 05-14-2005, 07:01 AM

that gif is good evidence, explosion BOOM no more strike.

Guardian_2000

Sat, 05-14-2005, 02:10 PM

Except the pieces of strike that are there are relatively in tact. I was able to go through and the torso is shown upside and at a weird angle. Surprisingly its in very good condition. I also saw that the Strike was smoking in the cockpit prior to the Lohengrin shot from Dominion. Rau did abit of dmg which I forgot about. Which is why there is only one leg and arm. After watching the SE and rewatching my ep 49 in large size and detail I still looks possible for Mwu to have survived. We're not gonna change people's opinions it seems since we all look at evidence differently and some are more open minded to these things. We just have to wait and see who the man behind the mask is. And if Mwu has once again made the impossible possible.

Terracosmo

Sat, 05-14-2005, 02:29 PM

It's pretty funny though, if they removed the helmet because Mwu is Neo then they would spoiling their own show. That sounds pretty unreasonable...

Curium

Sat, 05-14-2005, 07:11 PM

I took a look again, the picture without the helmet looks like it has some different colors.

Looking carefully, I believe that it is a new drawing and thus rather then the helmet being removed they just didn't bother too draw it in. All of this could just be caused by someones lazieness.

kinggalaxia

Sun, 05-15-2005, 10:24 AM

Guys, guys... just to tell y'all, I am not attacking you...

but you're arguing about "angle of body" and "mask coming off" and stuff
let's wait until the show just tells us!! :lol:

Yes I've had my fair share of playing Sherlock on anime shows; hell, I'm doing that w/ the Gilbert/Rau/Rey situation....but for real, won't most of you feel dumb that you debated this and it doesn't turn out to be Mwu at all? or even if it is Mwu? I know I'd be like "ok, then, that was easy"

I know, I'm being hypocritical. Ask me about Evangelion and I'll LAUNCH into a diatribe of shit, hahaha. What I'm just saying is that this should be resolved in its own way...through the show.

Gunslinger_BlaQ

Mon, 05-23-2005, 04:01 PM

Neo=Mwu:

well, aside from the basic physical resemblance, i'd also like to direct everyone's attention to Exus, the Mobile Armor he was piloting in the first few episodes, which was clearly designed to be most similar to the Mobius Zero. and, as it was said early in SEED, Mwu was the only Mobius Zero pilot to survive the battle at Grimaldi Front, thus earning him that "Hawk of Endymion" nickname. Neo would need Mwu-like piloting ability to operate what was clearly a pseudo-Mobius Zero.

the most likely explaination is, in fact, the same memory wipe used on the Extended pilots, slectively removing unneeded memories, such as his affection for Ramius and the Archangel crew as a whole, while keeping his training and piloting abilties wholly intact.

realistically, there's no justifiable reason to clutter the story with another masked character if his background story isn't completely relevant. if it wasn't Mwu, they wouldn't have him the series at all.

as for the idea of Neo being a clone of Mwu or Mwu's father, the flaw there is the issue of aging and his apparent military rank. even if the earth forces made the clone, they wouldn't make him Colonel or whatever rank he is... he'd be a low-rank grunt, just like Rey is in ZAFT.

as for the point of the nature of Strike's destruction in Ep. 49 of SEED... from a rational standpoint, let's assume that when they finished writing out the script for SEED, the never planned on doing a second series. this is evident in the existence of the "Beyond The Stars" short movie... this is anime, they do unrealistic resurrections constantly... when Strike/Aegis blew up, the profile shot of the blast made it quite clear that there was no way Kira survived, but he did. it just goes to show you they can really stretch any truth they want to bring back a fan-popular character.

here's the way it's looking to me at this point... i may be wrong, it's just theory, but i'm basing it on existing evidence...

Rey is a clone of Rau, probably created because Rau had said that he had no real identity, and in an attempt to better understand himself, he chose to raise his own clone, perhaps created without the defects evident in Rau's genetic make-up. maybe he made the clone just in case he failed in his goal (which he clearly did)...

Neo is probably Mwu, snatched up from the Strike debris by the Earth Forces and mind wiped in hopes to use a rather reputable and clearly talented Earth Forces war hero to be in command of the "Extended" special forces group, Phantom Pain, much like they had probably planned for him when they transferred him off of the Archangel to a teaching position in California, which he bailed out on because of Ramius. i think, if he encounters Ramius, much like with what transpired between Shinn and Stellar, he'll regain trace memories which will, over time, develop into full memory revival...

sound reasonable?

Curium

Mon, 05-23-2005, 05:37 PM

Ever hear the term "red herring"?

Deamon007

Tue, 05-24-2005, 12:56 AM

I think neo is mwu because he was way to cool to stay dead

Gunslinger_BlaQ

Tue, 05-24-2005, 01:16 AM

hrm. i suppose the red herring theory is a possibility, but i tend to trust my gut on things like this, and i'm just not getting that impression. if it is, however, i think i'll be quite impressed to see that the writers pulled off that big of a scam on the viewers. hell, thinking about it right now, even though i'd really like it to be Mwu to properly wrap up all of the "love sub-plots", i'd actually be fairly pleased if it were a red herring.

Curium

Tue, 05-24-2005, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by: Gunslinger_BlaQ
hrm. i suppose the red herring theory is a possibility, but i tend to trust my gut on things like this, and i'm just not getting that impression. if it is, however, i think i'll be quite impressed to see that the writers pulled off that big of a scam on the viewers. hell, thinking about it right now, even though i'd really like it to be Mwu to properly wrap up all of the "love sub-plots", i'd actually be fairly pleased if it were a red herring.

I agree with the"going with your gut" when lacking absolute proof. In the end, one of us will have to retrain that "gut feeling". I hope it isn't me, I don't know how to do it.

xat

Tue, 05-24-2005, 03:47 AM

IMO Sooner or later Shinn will have to realize that he needs to change; it'd be fitting if such an event were to come too late. As for Neo, it's interesting that people have constantly been referencing the scar on his face; as bad a scar as it is, why has no one referenced the scars on his body? You see them particularly when he's showering, and they're bad--really bad. Now, where did they come from?

Curium

Tue, 05-24-2005, 04:18 AM

Personally I haven't ever refered to any scars in a post, however I have wondered about those. Judgeing solely on the width of the scar along his back, I can't imagine someone surviving that kind of injury. I doubt a skin wound alone would have been that large.

I don't know much about scars, but I would think the scar would have to be quite old and have stretched as he grew.

Terracosmo

Tue, 05-24-2005, 10:40 AM

@Gunslinger_BlaQ: Not a bad theory as far as the brainwashing view is concerned, however, I give the GS/D crew too much credit to even consider Neo being Mwu for such a reason. According to me, it's a far too easy "solution" and the most stupid kind of cliche available in the world of anime (and action entertainment as a whole). Having Mwu survive as Neo would make absolutely no one happy, considering how good his death was and how extremely simplistic and amateurish it is to just brainwash an old character.

I just don't think of the plot as that predictable.

DDBen

Tue, 05-24-2005, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by: xat
IMO Sooner or later Shinn will have to realize that he needs to change; it'd be fitting if such an event were to come too late. As for Neo, it's interesting that people have constantly been referencing the scar on his face; as bad a scar as it is, why has no one referenced the scars on his body? You see them particularly when he's showering, and they're bad--really bad. Now, where did they come from?

I would have to find the episode but Mwu was shott in Gundam Seed in the shoulder (I want to say when him and Kira were on the random research colony where the each found out about there past) and that is where those scars came from if Neo is Mwu its one of the reasons why when they showed him in the beginning people immediately thought they were showing Mwu instead of Neo.

I'd say right now its about 75% likely that Neo is Mwu all evidence that has been shown points directly at that however much as Terra says it would be a massive failure on the part of the writers to do something so simple.

Kirakun

Tue, 05-24-2005, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by: DDBen
I'd say right now its about 75% likely that Neo is Mwu all evidence that has been shown points directly at that however much as Terra says it would be a massive failure on the part of the writers to do something so simple.

I completely agree.

Deamon007

Tue, 05-24-2005, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by: Kirakun

Originally posted by: DDBen
I'd say right now its about 75% likely that Neo is Mwu all evidence that has been shown points directly at that however much as Terra says it would be a massive failure on the part of the writers to do something so simple.

I completely agree.

it would indeed be verry simple but I stil think (and hope) that Neo is Mwu and besides most of the story so far was pretty simple

Guardian_2000

Tue, 05-24-2005, 10:58 PM

I'd have posted about the scars but not many people want to see more evidence supporting Neo being Mwu. If they explain it enough similarily to Kira and Andy's escape from death I'll be content with Neo being Mwu. Its definately a twist. I also can't see how it can be so predictable if people aren't willing to believe that people would do it. Wouldn't that make it unpredictable? Thats a long time thing about calling things that way. If not here I believe I have mentioned the scars in some thread or discussion. They definately lend themselves as evidence consistant with what would happen to someone in the Strike. Thats some serious physical trauma.

Also they constantly keep referencing Mwu's saving of the AA in flashbacks if anybody hasn't noticed. Its like they want to wave it in front of us. Lets see if we can keep getting more info. For one thing you gotta give them credit for not having something official out that that spoils this.

Curium

Tue, 05-24-2005, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
I'd have posted about the scars but not many people want to see more evidence supporting Neo being Mwu. If they explain it enough similarily to Kira and Andy's escape from death I'll be content with Neo being Mwu. Its definately a twist. I also can't see how it can be so predictable if people aren't willing to believe that people would do it. Wouldn't that make it unpredictable? Thats a long time thing about calling things that way. If not here I believe I have mentioned the scars in some thread or discussion. They definately lend themselves as evidence consistant with what would happen to someone in the Strike. Thats some serious physical trauma.

Also they constantly keep referencing Mwu's saving of the AA in flashbacks if anybody hasn't noticed. Its like they want to wave it in front of us. Lets see if we can keep getting more info. For one thing you gotta give them credit for not having something official out that that spoils this.

It is predictable because even though we don't believe it is true, we are aware of the possibility and have been for most of the series. Also many of us saw the possibility on our own (whether we chose to believe it or not). What would make it unpredictable is if there were 0 clues pointing in that direction.

Guardian_2000

Sun, 05-29-2005, 06:06 PM

So did ep 32 turn anyone else? A few friends of mine finally switched after watching that and think its Mwu. Also looks like Kira figured out it was Mwu before hand how he specifically asked Murrue to handle it. It still could be a clon thou.

EpoC

Sun, 05-29-2005, 06:15 PM

I'll go with that he's mwu, that somehow survived and got amnesia or got a memory wipe and got replaced by another memory.
as a side note, he's prolly Rey's uncle i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Curium

Sun, 05-29-2005, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
So did ep 32 turn anyone else? A few friends of mine finally switched after watching that and think its Mwu. Also looks like Kira figured out it was Mwu before hand how he specifically asked Murrue to handle it. It still could be a clon thou.

Nope, the only thing "confrimed" in this episode is that Neo looks just like Mwu.

Splash!

Sun, 05-29-2005, 07:03 PM

Yeah, what was up with Kira asking Murrue to handle it before he sliced up Neo's windam. How could he have possibly known about some important person inside the cockpit whose life was worth saving. Maybe Kira just deduced from the pilot's superior skills to regular pilots that it wud be better if the person was saved and made to convert or something.

Also: I don't think neo has Amnesia(if he is Mwu). He seems to be aware of a lot of things going on and seems quite familiar with the archangel and freedom

Curium

Sun, 05-29-2005, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by: splash
Yeah, what was up with Kira asking Murrue to handle it before he sliced up Neo's windam. How could he have possibly known about some important person inside the cockpit whose life was worth saving. Maybe Kira just deduced from the pilot's superior skills to regular pilots that it wud be better if the person was saved and made to convert or something.

Also: I don't think neo has Amnesia(if he is Mwu). He seems to be aware of a lot of things going on and seems quite familiar with the archangel and freedom

Keep in mind he had a custom paint job. Most soldiers like that have some degree of importance. He may have just figured they could get some useful info out of the pilot. That also reminds me of a question I need to ask in the ep 32 discussion thanks.

Psyke

Mon, 05-30-2005, 03:32 AM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: splash
Yeah, what was up with Kira asking Murrue to handle it before he sliced up Neo's windam. How could he have possibly known about some important person inside the cockpit whose life was worth saving. Maybe Kira just deduced from the pilot's superior skills to regular pilots that it wud be better if the person was saved and made to convert or something.

Also: I don't think neo has Amnesia(if he is Mwu). He seems to be aware of a lot of things going on and seems quite familiar with the archangel and freedom

Keep in mind he had a custom paint job. Most soldiers like that have some degree of importance. He may have just figured they could get some useful info out of the pilot. That also reminds me of a question I need to ask in the ep 32 discussion thanks.

The impression that I had was that Kira had already felt Neo/Mwu's presence when Neo's Windam attacked Freedom. He must have sensed something perculiar, because he said "That Windam....... Why?"

Therefore, Kira tried notto injure Neo when he cut up his Windam, but I must say he was really confident to ask Marrue to handle Neo before taking him down instantly.

DDBen

Mon, 05-30-2005, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by: Psyke

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: splash
Yeah, what was up with Kira asking Murrue to handle it before he sliced up Neo's windam. How could he have possibly known about some important person inside the cockpit whose life was worth saving. Maybe Kira just deduced from the pilot's superior skills to regular pilots that it wud be better if the person was saved and made to convert or something.

Also: I don't think neo has Amnesia(if he is Mwu). He seems to be aware of a lot of things going on and seems quite familiar with the archangel and freedom

Keep in mind he had a custom paint job. Most soldiers like that have some degree of importance. He may have just figured they could get some useful info out of the pilot. That also reminds me of a question I need to ask in the ep 32 discussion thanks.

The impression that I had was that Kira had already felt Neo/Mwu's presence when Neo's Windam attacked Freedom. He must have sensed something perculiar, because he said "That Windam....... Why?"

Therefore, Kira tried notto injure Neo when he cut up his Windam, but I must say he was really confident to ask Marrue to handle Neo before taking him down instantly.

I think its much easier then that Mwu was talking to shinn right before that and Kira likely just heard his voice and made the assumption so he took him out in order to see if he was right.

Curium

Mon, 05-30-2005, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by: Psyke
Therefore, Kira tried notto injure Neo when he cut up his Windam, but I must say he was really confident to ask Marrue to handle Neo before taking him down instantly.

Giving a reason why Kira tried not to hurt someone is not much of an arguement. Kira tries not to hurt anyone.

Splash!

Mon, 05-30-2005, 08:44 PM

I wonder what happens to Neo from now on. Will he get a new MS, and if so what will it be like. Or will he just stick to piloting an exus or mobius zero type moblie armor. Is he even gonna stay on the archangel or is he gonna somehow escape.

Curium

Mon, 05-30-2005, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by: splash
I wonder what happens to Neo from now on. Will he get a new MS, and if so what will it be like. Or will he just stick to piloting an exus or mobius zero type moblie armor. Is he even gonna stay on the archangel or is he gonna somehow escape.

I don't really see how he can become a pilot again. He was responsible for too much working directly for Djbril.

Guardian_2000

Tue, 05-31-2005, 11:41 AM

The thing is this isnt the only time Kira has gotten a strange feeling from Neo/Mwu. Earlier he was confused when he seemed to sense Neo/Mwu's presence aboard the ship during an earlier battle. Then he gets another feeling from when he fights the Windam. He can definately tell something was unique about the pilot and then I think he figured out what it was that he was sensing. Its the reason he specifically asked for Ramius to handle the situation and disabled the windam to bring it down. He could of just taken out the weapons but he specifically brought it down. He has never called out for Ramius to handle something before. He wanted her to go and check out that Windam.

We've seen Kira showing newtype like abilities for awhile now since way before in SEED when he triggered Rau's newtype ability. Then he started gaining a greater spatial awareness practically the same as Rey's maybe more so. In destiny he starts sensing the people battling in battles in space or in other places when he was staying with Lacus. Eventually getting to the point I mentioned with Sensing Neo/Mwu and then the disabling of the windam. I'll stick with Kira's intuition since its been pretty damn good so far. It may be an obvious outcome that they will put Neo as a brainwashed Mwu. But if they want to do that they can. They have enough to fit it in. They just have to explain it. I really want to see what they do when Neo/Mwu comes to and they can talk to him. I wonder what the first question they'll ask will be. And will seeing Ramius bring him back over time like Stellar did with Shinn.

romancing_xaga

Wed, 06-08-2005, 12:59 PM

Ok, first of all we should have all learned not to jump to any conclusions. There are answers to questions, and questions to answers. Everything has to make sense, right?

Right now, I haven't FULLY DECIDED yet on whether Mwu is Neo, or a clone of his. Why? coz it hasn't revealed anything regarding on his identity yet. Neo didn't say "I am Mwu" or "I am a frreakin clone".

But regarding on hunches or predictions, I feel more convinced that it is possible for Neo and Mwu to be the same person. But to be honest, I dont want it to be that way, altough it sounded a happy-ending-type of scenario. He did look like Mwu, he did sounded like Mwu, heck even his genetic structure suggests that HE IS MWU. But lets not jump into conclusions. Its safe not to decide yet.

In the meantime lets think about other possibilities, besides having a clone or brainwashed. Can it be possible that Neo is Mwu's unknown twin brother? I do remember something about him being the only son, but still who knows what his father's lifestory is. Perhaps when his dad decided to clone himself, he also whispered to the scientist to clone his son as well while he was sleeping.
heck i dunno what think..

antoine

Wed, 06-08-2005, 08:08 PM

its mwu

eur0pium

Sat, 06-11-2005, 03:25 AM

I think it's Mwu too...

romancing_xaga

Sat, 06-11-2005, 02:55 PM

Im afraid your right, its very likely that its Mwu, oh crap.

ChaosK

Sat, 06-11-2005, 04:50 PM

could mwu be an extended then? remember, kira said his memories were most likely altered.

Curium

Sat, 06-11-2005, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
could mwu be an extended then? remember, kira said his memories were most likely altered.

But keep in mind that the 2 of the 3 extended pilots showed signs that they could overcome the programming. I would assume that the process would be less useful on an adult because there sense of "who they are" is stronger. With the others they started when they were very young. They would be even more likely to break the programming with a strong stimulus from their life before the programming, like seeing the woman he loved.

ChaosK

Sat, 06-11-2005, 08:53 PM

we dont know WHAT mwu is exactly.

romancing_xaga

Sun, 06-12-2005, 01:13 PM

I know what you mean kiddo. There's a lot of possibilities isn't there? I don't think he is a some kind of duplication clone, or some experemental subject. I think he really is "someone" else. Perhaps were being too much "thinkful" about this matter. For now let's just grasp the fact that he is a man named Neo Lornoke.

ChaosK

Sun, 06-12-2005, 03:36 PM

i thought rey was rau's son...

Guardian_2000

Mon, 06-13-2005, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
I know what you mean kiddo. There's a lot of possibilities isn't there? I don't think he is a some kind of duplication clone, or some experemental subject. I think he really is "someone" else. Perhaps were being too much "thinkful" about this matter. For now let's just grasp the fact that he is a man named Neo Lornoke.

A man whose physical data matches exactly to that of what they have on file aboard the AA for Mwu. Sorta rules out the possibility of it being anything other than a clone or Mwu. The problem with clones is that technically a clone unless raised under the same circumstances and meeting the same ordeals and situations in life won't turn out the same. Yet the characters Neo and Mwu have similar combat styles, similar expressions, personalities. Then there is the issues of the scars while its possible a clone could have gotten them for other reasons all over his body. Mwu currently has an explained reason for the scars. If it was a clone why didn't Mwu or anyone else for that matter really know about this high ranking EA officer. You'd think that someone with similar abilities of Mwu but of higher rank would of been put in charge of training the G pilots or atleast made an appearance in SEED or SEED mangas. Only now does he appear aboard a vessel where there is a machine that can alter a persons memories.

Right now I'm just counting the episodes till they finally just say he is Mwu to end the debate. Its already pretty much one sided.

Curium

Tue, 06-14-2005, 12:11 AM

It is possible that Neo joined the EAF either right before or after SEED ended, and then because of his amazing apptitude raised in the ranks quickly.

I figure there is still at least a 1% chance that Neo was altered by Dullindal to "be" Mwu like he did with Mia.

Guardian_2000

Tue, 06-14-2005, 12:42 AM

If he couldn't get Mia with her bigger bust size right how can Neo be physically Mwu. Physical. They did the works not just his attributes like height and everything. Blood type and genetics from the way they were talking. Hes a perfect match.

Curium

Tue, 06-14-2005, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
If he couldn't get Mia with her bigger bust size right how can Neo be physically Mwu. Physical. They did the works not just his attributes like height and everything. Blood type and genetics from the way they were talking. Hes a perfect match.

The bigger bust may have been intentional. The masses don't seem to care. As for the blood type, he may or may not have the same type to begin with, there are many options. I know it is stretching it that Dullindal would be able to go far enough to trick a genetics check, thats why I only said 1% rather then higher.

Guardian_2000

Tue, 06-14-2005, 01:51 PM

You still then have all the other more personal traits. Scaring, voice, personality, phrases. Its just too much Mwu for it not be be Mwu in some form.

DDBen

Tue, 06-14-2005, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
You still then have all the other more personal traits. Scaring, voice, personality, phrases. Its just too much Mwu for it not be be Mwu in some form.

This is very relavent considering that the scar on his shoulder was from Raul shooting him when Kira and himself were on the research satalite. Raul doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would write something like that in any report he submitted and him being dead its very unlikely that they would have payed attention to such a detail while cloning him. The scars simply tell the story to me at this point I can't see Neo as anybody but Mwu.

MeroTZ

Tue, 06-14-2005, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
I know what you mean kiddo. There's a lot of possibilities isn't there? I don't think he is a some kind of duplication clone, or some experemental subject. I think he really is "someone" else. Perhaps were being too much "thinkful" about this matter. For now let's just grasp the fact that he is a man named Neo Lornoke.

A man whose physical data matches exactly to that of what they have on file aboard the AA for Mwu. Sorta rules out the possibility of it being anything other than a clone or Mwu. The problem with clones is that technically a clone unless raised under the same circumstances and meeting the same ordeals and situations in life won't turn out the same. Yet the characters Neo and Mwu have similar combat styles, similar expressions, personalities. Then there is the issues of the scars while its possible a clone could have gotten them for other reasons all over his body. Mwu currently has an explained reason for the scars. If it was a clone why didn't Mwu or anyone else for that matter really know about this high ranking EA officer. You'd think that someone with similar abilities of Mwu but of higher rank would of been put in charge of training the G pilots or atleast made an appearance in SEED or SEED mangas. Only now does he appear aboard a vessel where there is a machine that can alter a persons memories.

Right now I'm just counting the episodes till they finally just say he is Mwu to end the debate. Its already pretty much one sided.

Not to mention, a clone would be physically different as well. Why?

Well, lets see here. Why are people who live at high altitudes better runners? Why are some people in the world shorter than others with similar genetics? Not to mention their physical data on Mwu would likely include things like bodymass/fat/muscle ratios, and other physical attributes which, while genetic, are also affected by a persons life and lifestyle.

Identical twins are genetically identical people. They are essentially 'natural' clones, and while in some cases they are very similar, a doctor would instantly know the difference. They are different on a physical level because they are, quite simply, different people.

The doctor said Neo was a perfect match. The only way that is possible is if they are the same person.

Thats me weighing in.

Curium

Tue, 06-14-2005, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by: MeroTZ
Not to mention their physical data on Mwu would likely include things like bodymass/fat/muscle ratios, and other physical attributes which, while genetic, are also affected by a persons life and lifestyle.

That may be true, but what are the chances that none of those would change in 2-3 years.

MeroTZ

Tue, 06-14-2005, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: MeroTZ
Not to mention their physical data on Mwu would likely include things like bodymass/fat/muscle ratios, and other physical attributes which, while genetic, are also affected by a persons life and lifestyle.

That may be true, but what are the chances that none of those would change in 2-3 years.

Not very high, seeing as how many physical attributes are primarily determined in your youth. I'm somewhat certain that things as simple as your height are influenced by things llike your diet as a child.

Since his personality, and lifestyle, are most likely similar as Neo to Mwu's, these things should not have changed.

If it was a clone, they'd be far different.

LokeXero

Wed, 06-15-2005, 01:48 AM

Your height is determined by your genetic code, the genes derived from your parents not by what you eat MeroTZ...

Souryusen

Wed, 06-15-2005, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by: LokeXero
Your height is determined by your genetic code, the genes derived from your parents not by what you eat MeroTZ...

Your ability to grow to your full potential depends greatly upon your diet. It's hard to make bone and muscle without adequate calcium and protein intake.

LokeXero

Wed, 06-15-2005, 07:52 AM

yes but that doesnt affect how tall you gonna be, that is pre-determined by a gene and has nothing to do with diet.

Anyway back on topic, i dont think Neo is Mwu, IMO hes a Clone of Al da Flaga, who survived the burning down of the flaga mansion by rau and sustained the face cuts in the process. And until they bring out that Neo has a shoulder injury consistant with what Mwu suffered, you really cant say he is Mwu, you can presume but its isnt confirmed...

qilinkiddo

Wed, 06-15-2005, 08:01 AM

your height is partly determined by your gene...and other factor such as healthy diet...

Dannynonsense

Wed, 06-15-2005, 08:03 AM

thats true if you suffer from malnutrition you wont be able to reach your potential already established in you genentic code

Souryusen

Wed, 06-15-2005, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by: LokeXero
yes but that doesnt affect how tall your gonna be, that is pre-determined by a gene and has nothing to do with diet.

Oh yes it does. Someone who was malnourished during a growth phase will be shorter (PERMANENTLY) than they would have been under ideal circumstances.

Don't talk to me about genetics and what does or does not affect height, I'm a medical professional.

LokeXero

Wed, 06-15-2005, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by: Souryusen

Originally posted by: LokeXero
yes but that doesnt affect how tall your gonna be, that is pre-determined by a gene and has nothing to do with diet.

Oh yes it does. Someone who was malnourished during a growth phase will be shorter (PERMANENTLY) than they would have been under ideal circumstances.

Don't talk to me about genetics and what does or does not affect height, I'm a medical professional.

fine, i'll concede this issue only cause if it continues it'll bore me to death and i already have enough things on my plate...

qilinkiddo

Wed, 06-15-2005, 11:48 AM

you could use google to search on this issue =D
whether healthy diet etc could affect your growth in height

Terracosmo

Wed, 06-15-2005, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by: LokeXero

Originally posted by: Souryusen

Originally posted by: LokeXero
yes but that doesnt affect how tall your gonna be, that is pre-determined by a gene and has nothing to do with diet.

Oh yes it does. Someone who was malnourished during a growth phase will be shorter (PERMANENTLY) than they would have been under ideal circumstances.

Don't talk to me about genetics and what does or does not affect height, I'm a medical professional.

fine, i'll concede this issue only cause if it continues it'll bore me to death and i already have enough things on my plate...

Oh, what an admirable way to admit that you are wrong!

God, the people of today...

thejamppa

Wed, 06-15-2005, 01:32 PM

In last episode 34, Neo did said: Why is this place again like this? And then shocked after realizing what he said... So he might be a clone but he appareantly does have original Mwu's memories hidden inside his head...

Motteh

Wed, 06-15-2005, 02:34 PM

i do and at the same time do not understand why people are saying he looked shocked
i do understand in the meaning that he said such a thing after experiencing the first battle on AA since he boarded it
but i don't understand in the way that to me he doesn't look shocked, he looks away yes but he doesn't have a shocked expression on his face, or neither a "huh?" kinda sound/sentence

Guardian_2000

Thu, 06-16-2005, 12:06 AM

He wonders why this place "AA" is always shaking around and in a battle. Can be taken that since he got there its been like that. Or its that he takes it that way as its been like that even when he was there as Mwu. Its uncertain. Then after saying it thou he looks to the left making a sound like he was puzzled or just noticed something. It could be his memories returning. But its still too early to tell. Maybe in the next ep we'll get more from him.

Madell

Tue, 07-19-2005, 07:49 AM

neo = Mwu i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

john_doe_107

Tue, 07-19-2005, 09:42 AM

have you guys ever thought that you're overthinking things?
i mean..its pretty obvious isn't it?
mwu is neo
i mean, even if he was some other dude who has his memories..
why would they give him those memories if they erased it anyways?
and if it was another dude right..he wouldn't have had all those scars all over his body?

Curium

Tue, 07-19-2005, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by: john_doe_107
have you guys ever thought that you're overthinking things?
i mean..its pretty obvious isn't it?
mwu is neo
i mean, even if he was some other dude who has his memories..
why would they give him those memories if they erased it anyways?
and if it was another dude right..he wouldn't have had all those scars all over his body?

I've answered most of these questions before. I still stand by the idea that they are trying TOO HARD to make us believe that it is Mwu. They are going to have to come out step by step for me to believe it is Mwu.

Terracosmo

Tue, 07-19-2005, 10:00 PM

That is what I felt too. It was just too obvious, making it so I didn't believe that Neo was Mwu.
Until the very end I hoped they didn't take such a stupid and nonsensical path, but they did. Sucks really.
I liked Mwu and all but for god's sake stay dead damnit.

Curium

Tue, 07-19-2005, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
That is what I felt too. It was just too obvious, making it so I didn't believe that Neo was Mwu.
Until the very end I hoped they didn't take such a stupid and nonsensical path, but they did. Sucks really.
I liked Mwu and all but for god's sake stay dead damnit.

With all due respect, I think you are giving up too easily.

Oh, on the issue of the bridge communication code, I responded that I would think it is the same for all EAF ships and there would be no reason for AA to change theirs after they left the EAF. Guardian mentioned that why would they make a big deal out of it if it wasn't differant. I've finally thought of an answer. Murrue is convinced Neo is Mwu and she is trying to prod him into remembering.